From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 7 16:54:20 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFE616A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:54:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F53943D39 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:54:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-mobile@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1D8LMT-0000yL-7S for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:45:42 +0100 Received: from office.wingnet.net ([216.64.98.250]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0100 Received: from jesse by office.wingnet.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:45:41 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org From: Jesse Guardiani Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:47:11 -0500 Organization: WingNET Lines: 136 Message-ID: References: <20050304223630.1CCD15D07@ptavv.es.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: office.wingnet.net User-Agent: KNode/0.8.2 X-Mail-Copies-To: never Sender: news X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: freebsd-mobile@m.gmane.org X-MailScanner-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Thinkpad Thermals X-BeenThere: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jesse@wingnet.net List-Id: Mobile computing with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 16:54:21 -0000 Kevin Oberman wrote: >> From: Jesse Guardiani >> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 05:09:46 -0500 >> Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org >> >> Kevin Oberman wrote: >> >> >> From: Jesse Guardiani >> >> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 13:01:21 -0500 >> >> Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org >> >> >> >> Howdy! >> >> >> >> My IBM Thinkpad A30p's ATI video chip got cooked last year, >> >> leaving me with an unreadable screen full of artifacts. I >> >> finally bought a replacement mobo a few days ago and installed >> >> it this evening. It's now running artifact free! Yay! >> >> >> >> Anyway, I'm no longer running FreeBSD on this laptop. I'm >> >> currently running Gentoo Linux. But it would be trivial >> >> to switch back if needed. >> >> >> >> I'm using gkrellm under linux to monitor my CPU temp, and >> >> I'm noticing that it runs quite hot. The fan doesn't kick >> >> in until the CPU hits 80C! That's a little too close for >> >> comfort, IMO. >> >> >> >> I think I remember seeing other posts from Thinkpad users >> >> mentioning high temps under ACPI. Has anyone found a way >> >> to cool these things down? >> > >> > Jesse, >> > >> > Is it running at or near 80C when idle, when in typical use, or when >> > building something BIG (CPU running at >95% for minutes). >> >> More or less idle. It fluctuates between 70C and 80C. Just playing an >> MP3 I'm at 77C right now. Is this normal acceptable temp for a thinkpad? >> Or should I be targeting the 40C range like I do with my desktop >> machines? >> > Acceptable? I suspect it is, although it seems a bit warm to me, too. My > T30 idles at about 48C and playing MP3s pushes it up about 5 degrees, so > your's is running a bit hotter than mine. > > Laptop CPUs almost always run hotter than desktop systems. Just think > about the fans and the big heat sink on the CPU. Your laptop has no space > for things like that. P4s are especially bad and P4-Ms are just a bit > better. The newer P-Ms (often call Centrino) do MUCH better, but their > internals are very different from the P4..probably more like a > P3. Getting heat out of a laptop is a real problem. Sort of off topic, but interesting. I always thought the Centrino chips were P4-Ms, but I guess not. >> > I believe that the A30p is a P4-M CPU. It will turn itself off (hard, >> > like a power cut-off) before the CPU dies, but that is NOT a good >> > thing. That does not happen until the CPU reaches a frightening 135C. >> >> Actually, I think mine is a P3-M at 1.2ghz. It uses PC133 SODIMMs, and >> /proc/cpuinfo reveals this: >> >> Intel(R) Pentium(R) III Mobile CPU 1200MHz >> >> I think it's the A31p that uses a P4-M. > > Sorry. The P3s generally run much cooler than the P4s. Is your fan > running? It doesn't *seem* to kick in until temp hits 80C. I don't remember seeing anything about this in the BIOS, but I'll certainly look again. > It should be at those temperatures. It's under BIOS control in > my T30, but you would have to dump your ACPI tables to see if there is > any fan control available. Is there a howto for doing this? I can load FreeBSD temporarily on a spare disk if it'll help me get to the bottom of this. >> > If you are running 5-Stable or 6-Current you should load cpufreq and >> > acpi_perf. These will give you a large number of CPU "frequencies" >> > visible in dev.cpu.0 and settable in dev.cpu.0.freq. This provides >> > fine-grained control. >> >> I asked this question here mostly because I know a lot of people on this >> list run Thinkpads, and I remember more than one complaining about >> cooling issues. >> >> Again, I no longer run FreeBSD on this laptop. I run Gentoo. Linux has >> various different daemons capable of throttling the CPU though, and I >> currently have an "on-battery" runlevel setup that runs the speedfreq >> daemon with a preference for "powersave". I could install something in >> my default "on-AC" runlevel that regulates CPU based on load even when >> on AC... >> >> But... is 80C normal under load? Running a frequency daemon won't change >> the under-load temp unless I cap the horsepower or introduce some sort >> of temp related frequency feedback control as you describe below. >> >> Hmmm... well that's interesting: Just to test it out, I unplugged the >> AC and ran it for a while, still playing the same MP3. It leveled out >> at 66C in the "powersave" profile, which means that the CPU is running >> at just 799.457mhz instead of 1199.185mhz (performance). >> >> Is 66C acceptable temp for a laptop? It's definitely a better temp, but >> It would really stink if my 1.2ghz had to be run at just 800mhz all the >> time to avoid cooking things. > > Once again, I can't define "acceptable". It is not so hot as to be > frightening, but it does sound like it's running warmer than I would > expect. Dust? Blocked air intake/outlet? Absolutely not. I just replaced the motherboard myself. It took 2 hours. I was very careful to examine the heatsink for blockage or excessive dust. It's clean, and the fan spins freely. > Those can real impact thermals. And, of course, fan problems can be > a big issue. I'm starting to think that my fan should be running, but isn't. The whole purpose of this post is to see if I can figure out what went wrong last year when my GPU cooked. If the fan should be running, but isn't, then that certainly gives me a place to start. -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net