From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 15 05:33:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1188A35A23B for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 05:33:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "xray.he.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B65dq0tWmz3dSw for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 05:33:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:TLSv1.3:Kx=any:Au=any:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 22:33:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Trying to install FreeBSD 12.1 on Librem laptop To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <90d59a0b-4399-ccd7-5c6e-af6463ba43ad@holgerdanske.com> <11544df2-e8e4-d02c-ce64-9ffbf7ff792e@cisek.email> <6155f5a2-4f0a-1828-481a-e1b6090816a0@cisek.email> From: David Christensen Message-ID: <00be91c7-5bb8-5a7f-22b5-5fad5237c135@holgerdanske.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 22:33:29 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6155f5a2-4f0a-1828-481a-e1b6090816a0@cisek.email> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4B65dq0tWmz3dSw X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.82 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.38)[0.379]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.66)[0.660]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.88)[0.878]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[184.105.128.27:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 05:33:36 -0000 On 2020-07-14 16:09, Patryk Cisek wrote: > > > On 2020-07-14 3:12 p.m., David Christensen wrote: > >> If your motherboard firmware is current, there are no configurable CMOS >> settings, and the 12.1-RELEASE installer does not work, I suggest that >> you get a (used) server with ECC memory and several drive adapters/ >> bays/ racks, install FreeBSD, install services that you need and use, >> and run it 24x7. This will give you the best "real world" FreeBSD >> experience. After that, you will be in a much better position to do >> development on or for FreeBSD. > > Thanks for suggestion David, but I'm not interested in running FreeBSD > in a server-like scenario. Saying that full blown server is the best > "real world" experience is a subjective -- and therefore false for many > people (including myself) -- opinion. In the long run, I intend to focus > on end-user experience running FreeBSD as a daily driver on their > laptops/workstations. And help resolving similar problems, that the one, > I'm having right now. This is, what interests me, thus for me this is > the most important use-case. Then your choices would seem to be: 1. Debug the FreeBSD installer when it runs on your laptop. I use the "memstick" version, burned to a USB flash drive. Run the installer in text mode and switch back and forth between the installer and another virtual console (Alt+F1 and Alt+F2). The memstick filesystem(s) will be mounted read-only. I can and have crawled the installer shell script code. I have also remounted the memstick filesystem(s) read-write, and hacked /usr/libexec/bsdinstall/zfsboot so that the system disk is partitioned to my liking. (I can and do mount the memstick filesystem(s) read-write in a working FreeBSD machine, when I want my development tools.) 2. Find a compatible computer, install FreeBSD, and install packages and/or ports as required to meet your definition of "daily driver". Understand that there is a common set of knowledge and skills in running a FreeBSD server and running a FreeBSD graphical workstation/ desktop/ daily driver. I am not suggesting that you set up a "full blown server", which I would define as a server on the public Internet. My idea was that you set up a small server for your LAN, using services that you are already familiar with (I chose Samba and CVS). This will allow you to learn the common set and cover well-trodden ground. All of my experiences using FreeBSD as a daily driver have been a struggle, especially on the one laptop I tried (Dell Inspiron E1505). I did run FreeBSD-11.1-RELEASE and Xfce as a daily driver for several months, but it was clunky, missing features, and brittle. I went back to Debian stable and Xfce for my daily driver. David