From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 00:37:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689CC15BEC1B for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 00:37:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (static-71-163-255-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.255.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail", Issuer "mail" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9474C6CB67 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 00:37:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from tripel.monochrome.org (tripel.monochrome.org [192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x5N09Kop083762; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:09:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: Polytropon cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD In-Reply-To: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9474C6CB67 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.33)[0.334,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[monochrome.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.92)[0.922,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.monochrome.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.978,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:71.163.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.22)[asn: 701(1.14), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 00:37:27 -0000 On Sat, 22 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: [ big snip ] > Is there some description of what error codes like "Error 22", "0x16" > or "SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h" mean? ^^^^^^^ The first thing that popped into my head was that 03h (alias 0x03) is the ASCii character ETX, meaning of course 'end of text.' Could there be some issue with the file you're writing from? Just grasping at straws... -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 03:45:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1389B15C43D5 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:45:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5D45718DE for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.12.231]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N1Oo7-1ibmbE2aIF-012rTM; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:45:27 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:45:27 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Chris Hill Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD Message-Id: <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Fhl9CJqlCMOrO+hUyUKcfsRsMibrVy1+/of8XTcE0tG7jNnXs0M w/nyII3YGpigRtVS7jRUkuBK1gmlafPZeYcJJz4nUBUQswCAwhm8C8bgX8CubQlkAUKKWki pxKmMLGZrYlKDZIWd/3TvnVdqSUdTdChKZxIz1a8DTDGthJyHSQHUf8Bx86my9XgdE1x3n+ HE6Hrcn4ZUB1qcMcnJFFw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:nGbBe47R/bk=:HwaA7C3qq4JyM3ejnBoiIZ GpUaAp/xdj4RxJTB1JaRHPwULtcQ5Mmw8brabwGoDj1J5nXjSQU2T4LUTG1NdvhOhPMFkanPe 89sIfp1TTj3UVx1Zetc24IPldqVVuQnSbDMJBYoLhL2aTwMiSS5eS/U8Q/Gy9vRiFxfUUb/Hc LW7bVFH3Ax2pxy2m7pgVSoDUkk3e1Id9EeG+KyO4vet6p2DVz/JakSlZ8LiCZPAtlQwIDonHm 2KDwIGPHbG0LsidDxhkky9EgWNjVulUopMikHma7BjQHnPp8blcQF7N7wISyZgpVOi01InYcW XtYJdYqUNMkrOMbMo7zNf5KoY43NIg5UBXBlXppWYSdBDdPTavvsrhqfNbj4Es/5CWFeKh/J1 iGxqbqco7kFyNxatgfbO06QT1LruEM8aSGTivNSosreqtv1biRcucpup9ctDhtsMFivhky8wt sODLKPgty5qwaddI+3ZXK6WCMgHl5M+m844kl1LVbKs9C2M4SGpufw2i6m7eJTHby8QpN6vWl atP72kaOleNvhQhRYkGnfqKUH7Ps2SVmxzdURpsyX3/jGO2ZvBZ3MISl7mIMIXMgrl9fgYpI/ E4M4AV692dZ+NxEhUv6LpsvdVvlwEoFrdpqyNgU46GMve6dq2sWCnZd3KY+Q0d2UyUsRlgBZq eUkXGHhf4acixc5QUSnzZPLz1J+qw9QyrmiPmZGVJPFECVSsO2H6O+bESrYKGlbAw/kDko9VL Wq2lklm+JEAvTnLnxWDAXtcofV+jGh1mxbDY4CzZS46sQajPEdPQfAticGk= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D5D45718DE X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.54 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.22)[-0.223,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[231.12.222.94.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.985,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.39)[ip: (0.87), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.41), asn: 8560(2.49), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:45:35 -0000 On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:09:20 -0400 (EDT), Chris Hill wrote: > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: > > [ big snip ] > > > Is there some description of what error codes like "Error 22", "0x16" > > or "SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h" mean? > ^^^^^^^ > The first thing that popped into my head was that 03h (alias 0x03) is > the ASCii character ETX, meaning of course 'end of text.' Could there be > some issue with the file you're writing from? Interesting find! Yes, I remember the ASCII table's control codes, and "ASC" could mean exactly that, "ASCII Code"; maybe ACQ is "ASCII Queue"? And SK? No idea. I'd be interested if there is a reference list somewhere that would explain the codes and the values. The "file" is a subdirectory containing the files for a DVD (created with a script I wrote, which runs mencoder for file conversion, creates the XML description for the DVD, then runs dvdauthor, and finally growisofs), stored on a SSD, with no further system activity. Here is a "session hardcopy" of the last step I executed manually (as this can easily be repeated): $ growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video -r -J -udf dvd/ WARNING: /dev/dvd already carries isofs! About to execute 'mkisofs -dvd-video -r -J -udf dvd/ | builtin_dd of=/dev/pass0 obs=32k seek=0' Warning: Disabling Joliet support for DVD-Video. Setting input-charset to 'ISO8859-1' from locale. The pad was 26 for file VIDEO_TS.IFO 1.15% done, estimate finish Sat Jun 22 09:02:30 2019 2.30% done, estimate finish Sat Jun 22 09:02:30 2019 3.45% done, estimate finish Sat Jun 22 09:02:30 2019 /dev/pass0: "Current Write Speed" is 16.4x1352KBps. :-[ WRITE@LBA=0h failed with SK=5h/CANNOT WRITE MEDIUM - INCOMPATIBLE FORMAT]: Invalid argument :-( media is not formatted or unsupported. :-( write failed: Invalid argument $ _ Of course the medium is not formatted (it's an unused, therefore completely empty DVD+R). But "unsupported"? Maybe this particular drive doesn't like the brand? But I also tried a different one, and in the past, I _did_ once successfully burn a DVD (of the same brand!) with that particular drive, sonething not totally uncommon: My father's Dell laptop doesn't like one specific brand of DVDs to record, but works fully as expected with a different brand. Other drives seem to be picky about DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW which is also confusing for people. :-) My "solution" was to scp dvd/ over to my home PC and use _that_ to burn the files - same kind of medium, worked without problems. Sadly, I don't have a spare "slot-in" optical unit for the R61i, so it would be interesting to see if a different drive would lead to a change of results... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 07:31:58 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559F015C7E4D for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:31:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from smtp2.cretaforce.gr (smtp2.cretaforce.gr [159.69.244.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0421776ACC for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp2.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C2891F4D7 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:31:48 +0300 (EEST) Received: from christoss-air.zte.com.cn (194.219.54.122.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr [194.219.54.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C6A927363 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:31:48 +0300 (EEST) From: Christos Chatzaras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: jail issue on vps, daemons dying Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:31:46 +0300 References: To: freebsd-questions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1B8F00EB-7782-4731-958F-335166D636B9@cretaforce.gr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0421776ACC X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 159.69.244.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:159.69.244.42]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.19)[0.192,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.926,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.cretaforce.gr]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.21)[-0.206,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ipnet: 159.69.0.0/16(3.12), asn: 24940(-1.80), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[42.244.69.159.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:159.69.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[122.54.219.194.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:31:58 -0000 > On 23 Jun 2019, at 02:27, David Mehler wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm running FreeBSD on a vps. I've got it as a host system and am > running three FreeBSD jails. I'm noticing and I've not been able to > pin down times that sometimes functionality won't be working, i'll > check the appropriate jail and find that a server is not running. No > configuration changes have been made, i'll restart it, then a while > later, same thing. I'm thinking either CPU or resource utilization ram > wise, can I limit each jail's individual resource usage on the host? > > Thanks. > Dave. Maybe free RAM is not enough and processes are killed? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 08:58:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9841415CA547 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD938173B for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 8BF9115CA546; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6957415CA544 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C38C78173A for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id t28so9705800lje.9 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 01:58:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hABE80Ayr/zUTbDW7DZ/7bfwIek8XTrXXoRqcINoyqA=; b=ZfkKBcTlBmpj1G8qJ9FxvGQ7QQZmiBhimtfSfGpycnOp6B2YBc4e1B/HVqSWtUhxHG FLvKh9Kpvfe7hm2YKGgmFNHrZGCkIgiccqz3t2mJC2iiTXL/ynPD8VEzDgWa+WvP/JQw FHTJ4bcS4EgH4WbvdtCAvwTKVKj8H77vZy+AQEuJCU1xsC0H0k8A5NRHkstkgm7hZRk5 5G7ilPSOPdb25GJSmUk4gVYQxXzWiDWuc/qdv7B0M0jrYVW1sHQ/7SfNHpSYqEsQuwiB Vf34tM++/0F8ToVTGq/tGn9MHIJUIry1i3ibyzEg3VXW74jbi4VfqTMFrkbSKIgpKWHW +qVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hABE80Ayr/zUTbDW7DZ/7bfwIek8XTrXXoRqcINoyqA=; b=R+PvF6TME2SQg7wuEjW5Fbli9B1dez3T/ohQJhd3qbRMPbA83umU/urWwqrlWb0/47 vd9ZOAwA7W2FxurWi+hbV16LN+MrmTe8hfMcRqIrPh5+60IC0kIgqHzR3FgHoz/VY61w d6yS7RT1Q33/uiruGJJM6bKsDQPUzT5nDfSwohKFGMXdFVqzx94E72t/H0JtMiIUQZ37 7rHl41ubjlmKhQZEA5eJoLDlSAQHTgbDoIfrtuHsbHId12H7ObvmOWBvZya1sonFH/NM 6yb2fC2qOfLp4qX/vfRg8svPoDj9PV2kV8vpyHetkqQs3ZaVS9Fr4CDWyMA7XC6Ntd4i Uycw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWLJHSUcMYCSWqzOwtNbGmhMzPPI4xX90kvaaT2Sa5iwq5bt4/o 8qjUe1wbqOFsR34VwxaP4ewYzplR5NtLp8ZxnUjYyJmB/o4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwDi64WrK4YDkab78/0PWvJRioMqvF9nAUjoGN/ZV1RR0Kw6FsIPjv0IuwFkTaMJFNV3gm9wDe4WjgQwpVUP7o= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:894a:: with SMTP id b10mr42379495ljk.99.1561280293706; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 01:58:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:57:33 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: local_unbound not working To: =?UTF-8?Q?Trond_Endrest=C3=B8l?= Cc: questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C38C78173A X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 08:58:18 -0000 On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 at 18:56, Trond Endrest=C3=B8l wrote: > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 18:03+0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > I have a system which is an exact replica of the other except for the D= NS > > names and IP addresses. > > The system is FreeBSD-12. > > Now, on the original system, local_unbound is working perfectly for nam= e > > resolutions. > > On the replica, name resolution is not working. > > I have edited the IPs correctly in unbound.conf, resolv.conf, rc.conf - > > every other place I can think of. > > What would cause this failure?? > > Wildly speculating here of course, does the replica live in the same > subnet as the original, and is the replica allowed to speak to the > external DNS service? > The replica lives in a different subnet. It's actually being used as a gateway server elsewhere. > > Any typos in the IP address, netmask, gateway, or name of the > interface(s)? > The configs are identical except for interface: 192.168.xx.254 Are the MAC addresses unique in either case? > Yes. They are two different servers living in two physical locations, in two different ISPs. > > Is the switchport placed in shutdown, assuming a manageable/programmable > switch? > The LAN/WAN interfaces are both functional. The PF configuration differs only in the WAN IP and LAN subnet. If I put the same DNS servers that I have in /var/unbound/forward.conf in m= y /et/resolv.conf, DNS resolution works. --=20 Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 09:47:28 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9068215CB2EA for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84E3382D57 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:47:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1561283248; x=1563875248; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=C1l5yeukOhJaOk3ZhPbJuaopxt/cTipeldMeHMDumEs=; b=YzsIVWO/NPMedRZw+kqX2Cm3IWHpCBNIhc59Nwoq0IVzf8IvFVcFf51hrPfbu0nqjb0xN9LAJh7sxn0z8TfQ0kA8EF33DN5ZxwzQLN91uWIspfm8xb5eDZTxRALzeOGFuy5C8XJQjf6dUOZhjwDF32R2kx/ibC7ZF/ITZY45PWg= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDA2NGYzNGEuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com [54.186.58.227]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:47:14 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sun, 23 Jun 2019 05:47:13 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hez5b-000OdT-DD for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:47:11 +0100 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:47:11 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: mpd5 pppoe losing configuration Message-Id: <20190623104711.a8bb5931fbbeb68c5b7762e2@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 84E3382D57 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=YzsIVWO/; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.95 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mxbh.socketlabs.com,mxbsg.socketlabs.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.757,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.22)[ip: (-0.57), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.26), asn: 7381(-0.19), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.964,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 09:47:28 -0000 Hi, My FTTH connection presents as PPPOE on a VLAN for which I have mpd5 configured and working fine most of the time. Sometimes the ng0 interface it creates loses its IP configuration without logging anything obvious by way of cause, when this happens restarting mpd5 always restores the connection. I get the impression that this sort of thing is not unusual with PPPOE connections. I'm hoping I'm missing something obvious and there's some way of configuring mpd5 to notice this and renegotiate the connection automatically, does anyone know of a way or have another nice simple idea before I resort to writing a script. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 11:49:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4D415CE52C for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E058769F for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:48:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mail2.nber.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5NBjsAU034741 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:45:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:45:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Polytropon cc: Chris Hill , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD In-Reply-To: <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-KLMS-Rule-ID: 1 X-KLMS-Message-Action: clean X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Status: not scanned, disabled by settings X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: not scanned X-KLMS-AntiPhishing: Clean, 2019/06/21 11:15:13 X-KLMS-AntiVirus: Kaspersky Security 8.0 for Linux Mail Server, version 8.0.1.721, bases: 2019/06/23 04:22:00 #9855574 X-KLMS-AntiVirus-Status: Clean, skipped X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E0E058769F X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=nber.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of feenberg@nber.org designates 198.71.6.79 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=feenberg@nber.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.929,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[79.6.71.198.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtp.nber.org]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[nber.org,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.826,0]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26287, ipnet:198.71.6.0/23, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:49:00 -0000 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: > > Sadly, I don't have a spare "slot-in" optical unit for the R61i, > so it would be interesting to see if a different drive would lead > to a change of results... > My long (but older) experience with advising people who have trouble burning DVDs is to burn at half the rate (supposedly) supported by the burner and DVD. That almost always cures the problem. Vendors are just a tad optimistic. Daniel Feenberg From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 12:57:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8C215D0316 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emu@emuadmin.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAD2898AD for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emu@emuadmin.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CD26415D0315; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:37 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB70115D0314 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emu@emuadmin.com) Received: from mail.emuadmin.com (mail.emuadmin.com [108.61.189.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FD70898AC for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emu@emuadmin.com) Received: from mail.emuadmin.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: emu@emuadmin.com) by mail.emuadmin.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 361B31F9F0 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:28 +0000 From: Emilian Ursu To: questions Subject: Re: local_unbound not working Message-ID: <20190623125728.sdrgitlmb53ktuk4@mail.emuadmin.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5FD70898AC X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.995,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:57:39 -0000 Hi, by default local_unbound requires DNSSEC and will fail if upstream doesn't support it. You can check by commenting out auto-trust-anchor-file in /var/unbound/unbound.conf On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 06:03:38PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > Hi guys, > > I have a system which is an exact replica of the other except for the DNS > names and IP addresses. > The system is FreeBSD-12. > Now, on the original system, local_unbound is working perfectly for name > resolutions. > On the replica, name resolution is not working. > I have edited the IPs correctly in unbound.conf, resolv.conf, rc.conf - > every other place I can think of. > What would cause this failure?? > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 > "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 14:45:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A974A15D2B3D for ; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8gUmNJM2jCn49wSZUQe585H8zEk0gBIGr9dE3xcerVs=; b=eONcWz2qcXLdi7+JuQkcn1uPg1aBZNP8i8xhn2fDI60r5LkOIid/D26xJEUmhTZOh3 Tu1YbqEuZbPmH8d+bNW1GrWKwOj+L9IiVgi8E9oxy+NW+V6Y5cHf0PzjbtSJ/j37459D agpLimsLt0TB9lTE/9pto9asAZVO0Oi+cg+byGHaL4IyHgypu0VquyOS2SoGVkkiLC2I I7P3OJR6iD1N01thP52/fv2xyM8uQUm/IfpmrSRSFTzVOAFzt7BpmwNUkaqfVXkoY3zU 2upDjWVOqjmioN+UyEjAYVFYBLzqKMEG8O7P6Qqb7AYOaPMkPgdGPW+/3Un2XSgA7n4c WDOg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWYtKpyKhiIiIv5jloWwexARR5VLhsKBqOKLkSobi/RFYzfYKxh I7JJKRmCKzmn+tVqA2vwEoXsXO+9CySi3FqtQeM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwh9JSQTAdu1IyccVhTlx5jktmna15bSr3cVKeu1+9W3+gCcVdyxaFOjxbJXf9M2dAmYdzwnkWsPTWPUx8vqEU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:23d2:: with SMTP id p18mr11636233wmb.108.1561301135455; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:45:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:adf:a314:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:45:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1B8F00EB-7782-4731-958F-335166D636B9@cretaforce.gr> References: <1B8F00EB-7782-4731-958F-335166D636B9@cretaforce.gr> From: David Mehler Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 10:45:34 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: jail issue on vps, daemons dying To: Christos Chatzaras Cc: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A91328DF05 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=PAon78pJ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of davemehler@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::333 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=davemehler@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.73 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-8.77), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.54), asn: 15169(-2.32), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:45:38 -0000 Hi, The vps has 4GB of ram, but it's running the host system, which only runs the jails, and it runs three jails. If it's killing processes how do I correct this issue? Thanks. Dave. On 6/23/19, Christos Chatzaras wrote: > >> On 23 Jun 2019, at 02:27, David Mehler wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm running FreeBSD on a vps. I've got it as a host system and am >> running three FreeBSD jails. I'm noticing and I've not been able to >> pin down times that sometimes functionality won't be working, i'll >> check the appropriate jail and find that a server is not running. No >> configuration changes have been made, i'll restart it, then a while >> later, same thing. I'm thinking either CPU or resource utilization ram >> wise, can I limit each jail's individual resource usage on the host? >> >> Thanks. >> Dave. > > Maybe free RAM is not enough and processes are killed? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 17:53:58 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F33D15D634E for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 17:53:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB9D295DA5 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 17:53:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.12.231]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MQdpG-1hzVXP0UWU-00NkLj; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:48:29 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:48:27 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Daniel Feenberg Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD Message-Id: <20190623194827.e425b150.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UVGJrXM2ZvRZBda3jtZPvAoBGtNp8ie5v6AL4fGzl0AO6T1Mzid jdG3j2rPMLFd9aoTAlE+837GSDlAXP39ylDGcAsEXL+8nFYWAIwHh/zjvVPn40ihj5VC7No 0YoFP7f37cSLo5zLDvqihWdBG39pMcIVioAH92Wm41J0o+NUZG3L4hftHEcuwDiZhQr+1Rh Fzx1Pp50DYKIWNe1mUsHA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:C9NrphsOojM=:DeQOo/bnvLboZ+iz9cfy6X 2yYSpIvAXZO7PZ0pQvebp/KJeqV0CT5gW8W99BP3CHWOf7yu9rpDiAojWWhDezbXYp/JcjYid ICC41rl4RuMRu6ewqPE3WTg10CmeQd0EzQAnHztJvtU/zp/kYwXHLKVd4bx/Ck8tlomnW35w+ ftJZuQoKtLzOS2Qf+l+lwxpm1vA2zZug5mC5zxmT4kPkZ8ltg2WYUp0rdi0ZCcaaH+06HoWp8 Q/SB0HqlZqVpYI/fWD+HmpcJr+EndLWxWppqkIV4L/6Nxhzbiazq41vBYSBknanwU/MKEIsZA Z4BOFRRkuj6Aoli8BDEWcNUU1eiITBzVoB4XgNeob+W5mG7J4FLY4FCzDZnMC7kbWEFbNn+gb P5WFhcjjSYQZJi9rl1IvvEqK7ItVkhXrLBq5FDa73y0PjdG8lJmh+52662po82I3v3GRqOwN1 HIzutsjgIRQ/yAG3H2wSYJaFv4BrJDkIC3iDyoQbTiaaRAsNl/OtVHyZCB/ZKNgvMldu9LGje 57KyCYWH4H3IuY6V11GcYCmhIubvXiFzFKqPMOnCrx1co7AutxqYjKabgt4BZrzXHaeKKNBve BtfeCmr+RBiLX2vluvAmqF/C/JYWIluNuJKL3U9iSGbujySSdSwiaLXp/JoLeIhhkmeeXVt7F Fl36i+iKSYnoRF7/vOTaX4pGQCdBJxyG6XGhFQBaCDXfWPAQrOdyzLVuZzCMCcNQ4QoL8dp5R nzhcB+v04uuNKf6wObb5Gj7E4qHL4KH57PNJVbYNNnMzQtHyi6VudMEy1WY= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BB9D295DA5 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.89 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx01.schlund.de,mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[231.12.222.94.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.953,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.994,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.55)[ip: (1.66), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.41), asn: 8560(2.49), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 17:53:58 -0000 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:45:54 -0400 (EDT), Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: > > > > > Sadly, I don't have a spare "slot-in" optical unit for the R61i, > > so it would be interesting to see if a different drive would lead > > to a change of results... > > > > > My long (but older) experience with advising people who have trouble > burning DVDs is to burn at half the rate (supposedly) supported by the > burner and DVD. That almost always cures the problem. Vendors are just a > tad optimistic. Yes, I regularly do this. DVDs usually at 2x speed, CDs at 8x speed. In the past, I experimented with maximum speed, and found out that in several cases, the CDs has problems playing in CD players. The recording time doesn't matter to me, I want something usable. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 18:05:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A28A15D66B5 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from smtp1.cretaforce.gr (smtp1.cretaforce.gr [159.69.10.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE7DD961BB for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AE481F445 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:14 +0300 (EEST) Received: from christoss-mini.fritz.box (athedsl-4448571.home.otenet.gr [79.129.209.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1F49C27365 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:14 +0300 (EEST) From: Christos Chatzaras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: jail issue on vps, daemons dying Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:05:13 +0300 References: <1B8F00EB-7782-4731-958F-335166D636B9@cretaforce.gr> To: freebsd-questions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BE7DD961BB X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 159.69.10.232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.827,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:159.69.10.232]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.59)[0.590,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.87)[-0.869,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ipnet: 159.69.0.0/16(3.12), asn: 24940(-1.81), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.cretaforce.gr]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[232.10.69.159.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:159.69.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[43.209.129.79.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:05:24 -0000 > On 23 Jun 2019, at 17:45, David Mehler wrote: >=20 > Hi, > The vps has 4GB of ram, but it's running the host system, which only > runs the jails, and it runs three jails. >=20 > If it's killing processes how do I correct this issue? >=20 > Thanks. > Dave. >=20 Maybe the VPS hypervisor kills processes. Did you find anything related = to this in the logs?= From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 19:00:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009EB15D7609 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C496806A for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 1911315D7606; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB1615D7605 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E0F268068 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id q26so8432620lfc.3 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VKpQHRnBs0WUtw5HkvmpvkeI4z9586F0O7PHZ3aCW/8=; b=ShOlopXMc9l6FNLaHTCNbGjkpyi7SqRiyAMHHfPB0f1ScwUz2jLcTu6dYDvWhyI9ha w5MWW9xH4JDD/2hLO32unIv/B9xVANNZyjpumYCwu2usvi/MetNFAox3RPI75/PIsaz3 i8/yOxpYvnlXdHrlx/xfnFqgG6ysNxohxmHqfKUpcvkx6Mp1CYYZQbrKWb9qhfNKWJ7n VaJvK2pFO6E1g01od7Z/KjYD4oi/kcrxOq/JXwT+fRAxIFfTpyKRnh0LoZ/j5gIKy1yu kALAEFQ2pcEkQXEKwm12dImWxqMhgVr/cW4pXOq4b3hB15tH8RfALf0Cfe0Pb1ubjc9O ByhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VKpQHRnBs0WUtw5HkvmpvkeI4z9586F0O7PHZ3aCW/8=; b=on1+PMQAInKaRcFDHpda5U/2TWECwWHmDMGG8bgMyIblOgCeZT31xN053jm/w0wlKv YKI+29hyFx74dzwZkjPgWupYjRev+Cc1lomtbOIhiby4CxIcBMDKWA0+r27X/Nh//cBj 3RqBfaWdzkArpaLTh0JR623Ze7Fnqqzro1+xh+V7lOAllmlc0JYzY59hqlBLnrqgvpvy 3t+muZx2REsH6xXQCBw1lBMOaENGvhSgTur1SiwCanBjJhfBG9H/DF9yWqKMmLChbaJ+ Ve7qyjP6o6U7zgpx1rq198UozxGsW/r7McXy3JFI9MNYnHLtIXaVxgLBGzyYTv65lth8 NtUw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXvDUrxGgsLYxujDIldC5d+F3NF7AxjvJTMkiRaZZZH1ERja4yW Cjod+Pir1LRSVif74ME0r03EZXzTwdtmkuDi3FY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw9tOtpQby43QubyZNI77CGNYRFZjvD0BgiExnIkD4JiY4pBUBWTP5AQ1UzjNVNvYveqwsH8OiEa0p1Mo0wtBs= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4303:: with SMTP id l3mr18001413lfh.107.1561316416303; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:00:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190623125728.sdrgitlmb53ktuk4@mail.emuadmin.com> In-Reply-To: <20190623125728.sdrgitlmb53ktuk4@mail.emuadmin.com> From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:59:37 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: local_unbound not working To: Emilian Ursu Cc: questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5E0F268068 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.954,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 19:00:21 -0000 Hi Emilian, In both cases, my forward.conf contains the same entries: 1.0.0.1, 8.8.4.4 and 8.8.8.8. There is no difference and I don't understand why using these values in /etc/resolv.conf works while using my LAN IP in resolv.conf (because unbound is bound to my LAN IP) doesn't work. Even running local_unbound with -vvvv still isn't giving me any clues. Ever heard of getting stumped? This is it! On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 at 16:00, Emilian Ursu wrote: > Hi, > > by default local_unbound requires DNSSEC and will fail if upstream doesn't > support it. > You can check by commenting out auto-trust-anchor-file in > /var/unbound/unbound.conf > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 06:03:38PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > Hi guys, > > > > I have a system which is an exact replica of the other except for the DNS > > names and IP addresses. > > The system is FreeBSD-12. > > Now, on the original system, local_unbound is working perfectly for name > > resolutions. > > On the replica, name resolution is not working. > > I have edited the IPs correctly in unbound.conf, resolv.conf, rc.conf - > > every other place I can think of. > > What would cause this failure?? > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > > Nairobi,KE > > +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 > > "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 21:07:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E215415DB3DB for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:07:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodbrian77@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd41.google.com (mail-io1-xd41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C81C6FEA5 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:07:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodbrian77@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd41.google.com with SMTP id e5so154631iok.4 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:07:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dLWxoh7XuHbqgXdZmFHedH0NQbDhsp0eRHRjTb9FIvk=; b=N0tsl44Zhpmbzr3KvGRmk0SNb6Ujpu9MiBfw6m2W3yQwcJd32IrGcaqZYzmVqS4y4u to1gyC9ydCQ4zJAg4SbbBjBwt6fHR2X06wrCKjOPmydGO2Ovw4vgvcAK0ZZK2Mel+V7J bHZCs5jZ379+Z6n4s17xmn/k+tWmqfAEwf1wTrMcc7H6oI2e8+QbuHNHJUg2Kth74sDB F3h2gsejGgQD1KkZZOKLzSRMV2S1sTqd2jew8nKL6YAUrRCsaVIDZ3hg45ZGBxofCmZE 4bEYilmtpSNe8EstGGHNcavl0WWMR0b7gT+uONU0r4gcPXI7CV+3MYgslBQa720uGQLz uxaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dLWxoh7XuHbqgXdZmFHedH0NQbDhsp0eRHRjTb9FIvk=; b=boJTTnWc7Ng9FilnxsYLP4IMB7otrN42xwuWle4gXKCjjSUGlli9XDJHEGu5P+gROl cThAHaXRnw/j8Z2ysBrmmVsvr4ZhW7zGPuiQQLrb81goiCGrHNj6kBw28B0+0aUcGRBl mJbl384qMzha5VEB9mL0YnrjJNtjr/V0GRPuN7LsdmtjCzOaHT2/qYYWSXO57LCrwkeo ZqgdoKu808q6gTqIa1P+58dHChlBcK6eOw7dZhczi/xaQzK5RpXWcjuVNCyOaAnqoTcR W44Uyi1ECE97yGvqZAiGGYZ2rMNSmzN+Ipm7+RHI8Eo9AOTYmqG6lkMOjPfXSO2p/Tre /meA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX+ou3xmJGwHuqxX67jAVO0PYyzOTkaNUDGDqbkXRM4bhVOjOVT fYeeb9pEZPCqCCTzYcg8AUVI4p79VNAiFazDYuA43CKC X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwDiVdvJrJZNnDDHI956/0yGxqih1Xa2wD34Mbydo8TMR+IpEPzUnn/ORu/bZYw+GRzm3B+PJIGq+rmh86Dcas= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8f86:: with SMTP id l6mr12317055iol.97.1561324036196; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:07:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Wood Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 16:07:05 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) To: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0C81C6FEA5 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=N0tsl44Z; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of woodbrian77@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=woodbrian77@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.93 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.13)[-0.126,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.957,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.83)[ip: (1.36), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:07:18 -0000 Freddie Cash writes: > > You've been given the tools to do exactly what you want: > - comment out IPv6 support in the kernel config file > - add WITHOUT_IPV6=yes to /etc/src.conf > - rebuild the world and kernel I'm interested in this subject as an entrepreneur with a boutique on-line service. I followed the above and it boots and 'netstat -r' no longer says anything about IPv6. I found section 23.5.1 on this page: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/makeworld.html to be confusing. I'm not sure if that is out of date, but the 'make -j4 kernel' is different than make buildkernel and it says to reboot before running 'make installworld'. I'm not sure if it matters but I did 'make buildkernel ...' before 'make buildworld'. Then I installed both and then rebooted. I tried to get away with just rebuilding the kernel and installing that, but that didn't work. Anyway, I'm glad I was able to do this and bring it up in the hope that ground-up entrepreneurs will not be dismissed by FreeBSD. IPv6 is a headache for mom & pop shops. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 22:12:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D13D15B33C9 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A2EA72765 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C13919B512 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:12:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x5NMCldK059447 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:12:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x5NMClEZ059444 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:12:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: doug Reply-To: doug@safeport.com To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7A2EA72765 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.50 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[doug@safeport.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[fledge2.watson.org,cyrus.watson.org]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(2.51)[ip: (6.68), ipnet: 204.107.128.0/24(3.34), asn: 11288(2.60), country: US(-0.06)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:204.107.128.0/24, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.998,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[watson.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.997,0]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[30.128.107.204.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:12:54 -0000 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, Brian Wood wrote: > Freddie Cash writes: >> >> You've been given the tools to do exactly what you want: >> - comment out IPv6 support in the kernel config file >> - add WITHOUT_IPV6=yes to /etc/src.conf >> - rebuild the world and kernel > > I'm interested in this subject as an entrepreneur with > a boutique on-line service. I followed the above and > it boots and 'netstat -r' no longer says anything about > IPv6. > I found section 23.5.1 on this page: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/makeworld.html > > to be confusing. I'm not sure if that is out of date, but > the 'make -j4 kernel' > is different than make buildkernel > and it says to reboot before running 'make installworld'. > > I'm not sure if it matters but I did 'make buildkernel ...' > before 'make buildworld'. Then I installed both and > then rebooted. I tried to get away with just rebuilding > the kernel and installing that, but that didn't work. > > Anyway, I'm glad I was able to do this and bring it up > in the hope that ground-up entrepreneurs will not be > dismissed by FreeBSD. IPv6 is a headache for mom > & pop shops. I've got a bit of a different take on this. It seems to me that starting with the rewrite of the network stack to remove the giant (right term??) lock and making almost all drivers available via kldload the goal has been to remove the necessity to compile your own kernel (at least for guys like me). I'm more of a [grand] mom and pop shop, anyway, I can not find any left over files to clue me as to when I last compiled a kernel. Given all platforms and difficulty in debugging all the variability of having a billion or so packets arrive randomly on systems with 1-32 cores and different processor speeds I am happiest running the code that is the most used. Maybe the theory of correctness makes debugging better than when I was doing this s--t. If so links would be much appreciated. I use sshguard with inetd on jails and IPFW on the hosts and can see no measurable overhead with inetd much less IPFW. All my servers run only internet services of some sort so in processor time it's days maybe months (relatively speaking) between network interrups. So unless one is doing some processor heavy application that also has a real-time response requirement I do not see that much benefit from compiling a kernel just to get rid of IPV6 packets. As someone pointed out we can not be sure our "friendly" IPSs maybe sending them our way. Note even though there are not any "?" in this, it is essentially a long question. Thanks for any comments, thoughts, ... Doug From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 23 22:21:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A47915B3807 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:21:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jjohnstone.nospamfreebsd@tridentusa.com) Received: from mail.tridentusa.com (mail.tridentusa.com [96.225.19.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D993272BBC for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:21:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jjohnstone.nospamfreebsd@tridentusa.com) Received: (qmail 85602 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2019 22:15:04 -0000 Received: from mail.tridentusa.com (172.16.0.32) de/crypted with TLSv1: DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA [256/256] DN=none by smtprelay.tridentusa.com with ESMTPS; 23 Jun 2019 22:15:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 10715 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2019 18:15:04 -0400 Received: from pool-108-53-192-121.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net (HELO ?192.168.1.156?) (jjohnstone@tridentusa.com@108.53.192.121) by mail.tridentusa.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2019 18:15:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> From: John Johnstone Message-ID: <46616668-bcbe-a280-69e6-5e160aba2e7d@tridentusa.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:15:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D993272BBC X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jjohnstone.nospamfreebsd@tridentusa.com designates 96.225.19.3 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jjohnstone.nospamfreebsd@tridentusa.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tridentusa.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail1.tridentusa.com,mail.tridentusa.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.981,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.65)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 96.225.0.0/17(-4.77), asn: 701(1.12), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:96.225.0.0/17, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:21:48 -0000 On 6/22/19 11:45 PM, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:09:20 -0400 (EDT), Chris Hill wrote: >> On Sat, 22 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: >> >> [ big snip ] >> >>> Is there some description of what error codes like "Error 22", "0x16" >>> or "SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h" mean? >> ^^^^^^^ >> The first thing that popped into my head was that 03h (alias 0x03) is >> the ASCii character ETX, meaning of course 'end of text.' Could there be >> some issue with the file you're writing from? > > Interesting find! Yes, I remember the ASCII table's control > codes, and "ASC" could mean exactly that, "ASCII Code"; maybe > ACQ is "ASCII Queue"? And SK? No idea. I'd be interested if > there is a reference list somewhere that would explain the > codes and the values. These are SCSI protocol terms. SK - Sense Key ASC - Additional Sense Code ACQ or ASCQ is Additional Sense Code Qualifier SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h is fairly generic. 4 03 00 - Hardware Error - write fault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Code_Qualifier http://www.t10.org/lists/asc-num.htm Manufacturers also add their own proprietary codes to this list. - John J. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 04:52:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A779C15C1FE8 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:52:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3916F85817 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:52:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.43.126]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MLRgp-1hxcnZ1NrP-00IV8c; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:52:34 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:52:33 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Brian Wood Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) Message-Id: <20190624065233.fb5f72f4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uTp03k+8RjnLJcENGyzn3/YmCG/Jg3Pl7cejmBewQt431RSHXWd OwqWMi5wzMczvCxbmYGJoLWPcHYSXb+69avw9Pof8P7UMzGO76dwOgOzDub7+1qJrmzCQmV ZsVhEkkM/qI673t/EEFt0FY7tuN2ZT6zDFW0lwfiQYbsgIoCOdXEirI18zyEhNGQ75TZpsN 6E2moGAOhR8hbf2wgbAIQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:V4gYWT5KBtM=:YaEQERw5w3C3LfEhg/39+w p8mqT4URvyn9/15I8Db+sIuoerNEFkg++4BuRwhvb+0bvCgSdvQ6ErczvTNsK8vMD30BJ1opO zBAVepXt6BzL+IZaWPVLVRVtqLFBfP2FNci9bprq9cHZXgUj8u7tAOELsHHJLBCRb73m4jiSX wnCoyDmUeGl6nSXSHikUuDseq9oC2rvZeKWEcHLzn0e34EClwu00YXGB3f6G9zB+Xwq5C1Eyw xXRbkSJIfgsissfNvwVQhvjzp2oElvkjMBndyfBXSFwq68560Y6qAlL33pUu7yPDumwp8jypD pootipBC+XdFQZz/gAYb7vIdrKL79uUN+w39w7EaiEipxMHEGTJrH45yzhc78OzJ09xy9HtnL VS4lWeUfICcCGB/MqD8AnAltjUCP7wAf2N8cpz18FKe7AJe3toTyfyge6yN2PVtz5mIRi12Jo S8/sV0dGBKc/q4QrzPs1daTMDjktKHzx9mcpKiLdbC0m4xgvMHB3XCODG/KQlAHa3LYlmYvOn QmGWlbvtMPh7N37eKApWnp/6AnRDPZwBckvUrgzSp9C62NJghbgaKQr1HSQxFdtrKUg0dHL60 Rnfn5+YeMeu4rE2qaWy7eTZwdsi9F6k+cPLg+dn2JaFzt8nyhelpqbR6JEjOAznHg29T3pDLo NIQhmtX6Koq1JnQYsF9R2LLTGZCHSpFj9GIEOSLKuwbQugq/ivHgtUioXoPzXrNkzVBG+iBKE Jk4YcT5tkiPwgRRQH8L04yxGFElVSzHBjpEI9BvSxDpQeQxCsCOAbWCeDPs= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3916F85817 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.15 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[126.43.12.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.98)[0.979,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.978,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[133.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.80)[ip: (2.93), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.41), asn: 8560(2.49), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:52:40 -0000 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 16:07:05 -0500, Brian Wood wrote: > I'm interested in this subject as an entrepreneur with > a boutique on-line service. I followed the above and > it boots and 'netstat -r' no longer says anything about > IPv6. > I found section 23.5.1 on this page: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/makeworld.html > > to be confusing. I'm not sure if that is out of date, but > the 'make -j4 kernel' > is different than make buildkernel > and it says to reboot before running 'make installworld'. Refer to /usr/src/Makefile's comment header where you will find a short explanation of the different targets. make kernel: This target performs both "make buildkernel" and "make installkernel". It's possible to run this command in multi-user mode and then reboot into the new kernel. It's neccessary that world and kernel are in sync version-wise. make buildkernel: This target builds the kernel, but does not install it. make buildworld: This target builds the world, but does not install it. make installkernel: This target installs the kernel. It can be done in single-user and multi-user mode. make installworld: This is a very special target. It requires that you have booted the appropriate kernel, the ("old") world / OS in single-user mode, and performed basic file system checks manually (as this is not done automatically for single-user mode!). Before and after this step, tools such as mergemaster can (and should) be used. Here's a short summary (from the source mentioned above): # For individuals wanting to upgrade their sources (even if only a # delta of a few days): # # 1. `cd /usr/src' (or to the directory containing your source tree). # 2. `make buildworld' # 3. `make buildkernel KERNCONF=YOUR_KERNEL_HERE' (default is GENERIC). # 4. `make installkernel KERNCONF=YOUR_KERNEL_HERE' (default is GENERIC). # [steps 3. & 4. can be combined by using the "kernel" target] # 5. `reboot' (in single user mode: boot -s from the loader prompt). # 6. `mergemaster -p' # 7. `make installworld' # 8. `make delete-old' # 9. `mergemaster' (you may wish to use -i, along with -U or -F). # 10. `reboot' # 11. `make delete-old-libs' (in case no 3rd party program uses them anymore) Also see "man 7 build" for further documentation. So the choice of the correct target and procedure depends on the actual goal you want to achieve. > I'm not sure if it matters but I did 'make buildkernel ...' > before 'make buildworld'. Then I installed both and > then rebooted. I tried to get away with just rebuilding > the kernel and installing that, but that didn't work. The build order usually does not matter, but the install order does, and the environment in which it takes place. COmparing your approach with the procedure mentioned above, you can see that it's not supposed to work as expected. Therefore, revise your procedure. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 05:13:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B5115C2923 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 498CA8626F for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:13:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.43.126]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N7zJj-1ibNg82TEh-0155TO; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:13:31 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 07:13:30 +0200 From: Polytropon To: John Johnstone Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem burning DVD Message-Id: <20190624071330.435d71d0.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <46616668-bcbe-a280-69e6-5e160aba2e7d@tridentusa.com> References: <20190622090010.65724d79.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190623054527.da1435d0.freebsd@edvax.de> <46616668-bcbe-a280-69e6-5e160aba2e7d@tridentusa.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:m/46QmFOnufCnLEG559YQ0DcC4G1WZ/Dbto5QLofp51jmquujZ3 aX7dOwK47pcyPVyS798ICNUevfiU3VqdQ/o4N1YUJ5Id//2vk4DvQlMFB7fO+u2Tr49bIMS Em8C0fFwRuzuBGLEq5tNs+wNBt+WH1upzt19QiTyYptHxFoitOqTFzSJAlghsyT8ttiLVcb CJ62RX1IZ+kT5q5Q22rFw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:9ZOhSnd/8Tc=:t5j1F2n3i9F6qsMe3Yt90V OiX+n1KGhKMBRuQBlJYD6DRy/YfVkxVbSkj8PMarOUx80mN38U1zGmRkw0ijimWaeObz2R8sm Yp3I4KO03DXIcGjKrp1af9MEST954B8D9IQTH+e2lFieAV/PLmMlOWCMBtq4C4Y0NcRmxNz0g aBj5/DRQrYDYtmLFiA19grspttJ9RwGaVtWwzFGVdJ1dUyJUt7nsD9+CEaR5bpQ5Ru0mPUNuv hT5eRdhKhmgras48kbmq1E8rX4SpkGtiCMJaP0vOyUpDDXsKLRS5ifXBTox75cXB5bE63oPqg DFDO0rpop9pgXV3zM3SgbFOeFq5CpYmeh83OmwCAsjsxQXqYHXiaZoiOE/2N17BTbZrapQEdt EiUh0IIk8HR4f2Hj9EYkVf6v5cQl2Hqu6QzpEHs9T1SMPXSK02UI0O0kwxIVEWkbdgWNdX2Tt 6/G0kwgeoB73tnNFWz8dfclGzjOj++XVYOZo+bOZdkiLgQ5t4uUo6MLPYJr8jOQN3pn6cYtc+ //3b8+XPfb+9+wcb7ZhScV3PKfJX9SZijg3d9Djt3V/5u/RMbAo84Y7VqYsMFnd5Mqt8Vd0ak CpEJ7sE+3nbt1G0BM/GW7KzdjdYY7vSGN4A+wNxrbrjPJyBcSmADRPMXz7QdCh1eW3nT8+tpq uZ2AWFqD7200fkkBEGG6CYUYHAvOxBboZZzOOjgL99bEfYz5hE+CHolrG/+LG/5u0xaUMteck SESLJ3MSx8JrgHnRAiEqa1KR4u4JHrPpf1dKkxg9tsCKnI84Yr0SR8FxmBs= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 498CA8626F X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.22 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[126.43.12.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.992,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.989,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.85)[ip: (3.17), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.49), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:13:43 -0000 On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:15:00 -0400, John Johnstone wrote: > On 6/22/19 11:45 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:09:20 -0400 (EDT), Chris Hill wrote: > >> On Sat, 22 Jun 2019, Polytropon wrote: > >> > >> [ big snip ] > >> > >>> Is there some description of what error codes like "Error 22", "0x16" > >>> or "SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h" mean? > >> ^^^^^^^ > >> The first thing that popped into my head was that 03h (alias 0x03) is > >> the ASCii character ETX, meaning of course 'end of text.' Could there be > >> some issue with the file you're writing from? > > > > Interesting find! Yes, I remember the ASCII table's control > > codes, and "ASC" could mean exactly that, "ASCII Code"; maybe > > ACQ is "ASCII Queue"? And SK? No idea. I'd be interested if > > there is a reference list somewhere that would explain the > > codes and the values. > > These are SCSI protocol terms. > > SK - Sense Key > ASC - Additional Sense Code > ACQ or ASCQ is Additional Sense Code Qualifier > > SK=4h/ASC=03h/ACQ=00h is fairly generic. > > 4 03 00 - Hardware Error - write fault > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Code_Qualifier > http://www.t10.org/lists/asc-num.htm Many thanks for this pointer! This is very good reference material. After the transition from ATAPI to ATAPICAM and "everything talks SCSI" this unifies the error reporting for several kinds of devices. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 06:02:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B4915C3A3D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:02:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 046B9877DC for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:02:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTP id A90B261F82 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:02:38 +0700 (+07) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.ait.ac.th; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received:received :received; s=selector1; t=1561356158; x=1563170559; bh=PBUjea5/Q p3vNoma2FiTJdzZ3AzQPp4OTTihQWCuXDs=; b=IUPpTUvIK/S9LEkF3GZOTAEZB ZnKsfP6wJSSrD5dvIcy9O0cK10MChUw5r01nIa8nRmxs5DzmlyuCQCPsmcHrYyv4 BsYFickEtVLbj+y6+bVQz+fc1dFFGB7EIte+uh7ZKix9QCHaGDwpp3SAofeTKkBV 7GVebxAs3MnY+2lGzU= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.ait.ac.th Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id zQhwBMdbmvNq for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:02:38 +0700 (+07) Received: from banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (banyan.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D94461F81 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:02:37 +0700 (+07) Received: (from on@localhost) by banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x5O62atY019201; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:02:36 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from on@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th) From: Olivier To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cleaning emailUSB WiFi adapter for FreeBSD 10.3 In-Reply-To: <200908071142.n77BgWKF034276@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th> (message from Olivier Nicole on Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:42:32 +0700 (ICT)) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:02:34 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 046B9877DC X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cs.ait.ac.th header.s=selector1 header.b=IUPpTUvI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.ait.ac.th; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th designates 192.41.170.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.56 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cs.ait.ac.th:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(0.02)[country: TH(0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.12)[0.120,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[16.170.41.192.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[cs.ait.ac.th,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.cs.ait.ac.th]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4767, ipnet:192.41.170.0/24, country:TH]; RBL_COMPOSITE_RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED_DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:02:56 -0000 Hello, I am looking for an USB WiFi adapter that would work with my FreeBSD 10.3. preferably something readily available online. And before you tell me to upgrade, this is a pfSense box, upgrading is not a solution. Alternatively, I have one adapter that is recognized as product 0xc811 vendor 0x0bda (Realtek), but the system has no proper driver for it, so if I could get driver, that could be a workable solution. TIA, Olivier -- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 08:28:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE1915C6C93 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:28:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be) Received: from orval.bbpf.belspo.be (orval.bbpf.belspo.be [193.191.208.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB178B9A6 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:28:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be) Received: from home.lan (213.219.189.54.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net [213.219.189.54]) by orval.bbpf.belspo.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 529651D500FB; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:28:42 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:28:40 +0200 From: Julien Cigar To: mike tancsa Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZFS replication suggestions Message-ID: <20190624082840.GB92534@home.lan> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7ZAtKRhVyVSsbBD2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0BB178B9A6 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be designates 193.191.208.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[perdition.city]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.bebif.be,mx2.bebif.be]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.208.191.193.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[julien@perdition.city,SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[54.189.219.213.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2611, ipnet:193.191.192.0/19, country:BE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[julien@perdition.city,SRS0=y/yp=UX=perdition.city=julien@bebif.be]; IP_SCORE(-2.74)[ip: (-8.46), ipnet: 193.191.192.0/19(-4.23), asn: 2611(-1.01), country: BE(-0.00)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:28:50 -0000 --7ZAtKRhVyVSsbBD2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 03:25:20PM -0400, mike tancsa wrote: > I have a new project coming up with replication.=C2=A0 In the past, I have > used various scripts out of ports, but was wondering what people are > using these days to sync their ZFS files systems between servers ?=C2=A0 = It > will be about 10-40G in daily diffs.=C2=A0 Would like to send every 5-10 = min > or so. Files being slightly out of sync for a short period of time is > not a big deal eg. in case of total failure on one box (e.g both power > supplies die) missing some data for a period of short time is tolerable I'm using a combination of: zpool over local + iSCSI disks, and zrep to snahpshot + sync every hour to remote host >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---Mike >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be) PGP fingerprint: EEF9 F697 4B68 D275 7B11 6A25 B2BB 3710 A204 23C0 No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. --7ZAtKRhVyVSsbBD2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEE7vn2l0to0nV7EWolsrs3EKIEI8AFAl0QibgACgkQsrs3EKIE I8CIzxAAvdkwEeMQXJ+Exr+aMK4LXoM2UD7io986dP5dDRjG2MeDW616/YluHecw VzzH7cpZ4rPgmsHe1Zcji779gOfwbp5MzDpOxZ6QGNf8ebkiE3HaAUKMquhlLxQn ov0GDAtb5p1uVSes/PDizBH8pF2+A1l+V5qDWxrjJpsyHo2DwnhKsKQLBWE5FVHJ NWfiGUsrOINKhsmaQzzgc4sgAR5AyxJkvJyMgPe2EQ4RqcBXbsO9VkJMf4oe8FX5 USpJ7t5TRMqUN+7wpsabxyZagSG8D70qE7GlYkLpiD1yfPc2wnVinl6yZMIQP8rl K4a7AYLoUTzqwthmml4udWrozVa2x5Ucay85F++RO/Wnk0iC86w/XTrZ+SecwX20 EVGkoWgngx7z/DjVfRmnBr/bbBCu/txgs8kSFh/4onAw30vnls6kWcVPPbS8Uss1 juSJ6q7tyjHGviVUGCosbZXEsY4ZNnfY33ISfApQoiYdLSH6LK00gg/XGwTm5MdV X8z5cz2mMKw/J8b0WymdLGLNA/PPrrjkx4NTKuZ88jccBqSb33mHhiFJsNN2thE+ rQeLKL6yV9XVOqPbi90FZ+GIucWcv0V/uFAcqy15HQLox9DCyKvmVNy/GnXRDE+9 TcyWMGK0qNpumE9TIm8M6pKsZ0JyfzRwiwG0WEarpKfP9/2pZ2s= =N0dS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7ZAtKRhVyVSsbBD2-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 09:06:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C798C15C7C1D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta01.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9952F8CBED for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from localhost ([96.28.161.151]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id fKvzhmr2OP088fKw2hXeQX; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:47 +0000 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:35 +0000 From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org CC: Olivier Subject: Re: Re: Cleaning emailUSB WiFi adapter for FreeBSD 10.3 References: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIzwDpjE4tf1eUeJju/Serl3F0xSMtIsDZWdaNnfrZGiMj667OG6/NxJYzZ+c3Ix6NhpCM8UR8Yh2/xCUqmDKQbzxmt3N2rs20f4QPJSQPCN+qyuYVB7 edG3dE3C8j3yTELML41luskAHWFHHMA3mtMAp7ByqRJ4340CDRH2xJgqGQDqUaxhtRY1iqpR9f8eUqrv3XVeifi8FsiQk424p7E= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9952F8CBED X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mueller6722@twc.com designates 107.14.73.229 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mueller6722@twc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.24 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:107.14.73.0/24]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[twc.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[twc.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: dnvrco-cmedge02.email.rr.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[229.73.14.107.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.957,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[151.161.28.96.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[twc.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7843, ipnet:107.14.73.0/24, country:US]; IP_SCORE(-2.47)[ip: (-6.20), ipnet: 107.14.73.0/24(-3.39), asn: 7843(-2.72), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:06:55 -0000 > I am looking for an USB WiFi adapter that would work with my FreeBSD > 10.3. preferably something readily available online. > And before you tell me to upgrade, this is a pfSense box, upgrading is > not a solution. > Alternatively, I have one adapter that is recognized as product 0xc811 > vendor 0x0bda (Realtek), but the system has no proper driver for it, so > if I could get driver, that could be a workable solution. > TIA, > Olivier I use Hiro H50191 USB WiFi adapter with FreeBSD 11.1-STABLE, believe it worked with 10.3, seems to work with FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE when booted in UEFI mode. I haven't shopped recently so don't know how readily available Hiro (hiroinc.com) H50191 is now. This adapter does not work with NetBSD. FreeBSD driver is rsu. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 17:55:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA1D15D41DB; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:55:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com (mail-io1-xd43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EF7680567; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:55:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd43.google.com with SMTP id e5so2826112iok.4; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:55:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4MRRmDNpSzX7dEAYkWo+JP5lH0ho+lsVneTDmGxAODc=; b=q8qTu9gMbTGIgi+my+G2d7X2Hey/s97J6AZa021bhvQX0TKVUHcxu3FIR4ACUKJhvo H4If+b+H5Uw55o4r8rDfAS8f7wj6wmudINsk+KzryQj6M8LphyBzpZrCpd07wV1jLma6 TyxaSd6V+0SUbo2GMxZoCtIE1Q6zGkCQRxVXuU6VPThy/LYrd5Gp4cjk34QpHSnxCdjA C33KEIZx3mkG49aZX34NsB1STE3jcYPP2WHDl18GLmuF5euhTL6mX/tOv+sMiUTTOg9H 4rkAI68G24ngtr0Ic7wBXDcx5NyzBLezkLcmkHaD04iSGiQcJkvrji4+6Nj2nMM2dQhi fE8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4MRRmDNpSzX7dEAYkWo+JP5lH0ho+lsVneTDmGxAODc=; b=mBMxrH4kUbPbSdHboU8vZukJ8FzVbGqLDKtnj1GZwhw0fwv2Pa/6pjQON7JFW7yTZq IaOElVQ7pM0SFQ3c8cqonKXb4rl/Uw9UMhdxgiV9SN/Oh8KC9bu6G7OPt43N2UXBYWKq +kBTq/v1ZeMbRjO7x4owgZ/trAIhkK6YknGaUplS46yC73hccvn9khbmTTcmxf3kzF8h HCUg7ozLYfiEo4VmroQL7sMtKNeRnJcTHhtf4a9PKqDcOvm3PhzyCc1zEWub6BrjGdLo xCoQzavIimqcx/FWXvzFEmz8SS9SHhnXUluP67I1QA96ZBrEkEIzCgjmWMGdSTcTlSlK QZgg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVI5WiKUMAnappdYlNoRQm5VjcbARyZF8hhTsr7vFCUrIqzVPUx jp/H9PGhofRO/wyKAxInd0t9vHTWRELCvP0Lo1Ost5fH X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy5/J+1vEA9InCXgsA6v2RtYV7VpYjCE6CcUkva9kRVWExPP1OC8sQYB77qfMbzyGFUxRVGWXGeG/Re3i/XP70= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8f9a:: with SMTP id l26mr3474553iol.22.1561398937297; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:55:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a02:212a:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:55:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20190618235535.GY32970@gmail.com> From: grarpamp Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:55:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: CVE-2019-5599 SACK Slowness (FreeBSD 12 using the RACK TCP Stack) To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, jtl@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2EF7680567 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=q8qTu9gM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grarpamp@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grarpamp@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.85 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(-0.85)[ip: (1.27), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.15), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:55:39 -0000 On 6/18/19, grarpamp wrote: > https://github.com/Netflix/security-bulletins/blob/master/advisories/third-party/2019-001.md > As it is not in the current .md, when was the issue > discovered by Netflix / Looney? One week has gone by, so asking again... When was the issue discovered by Netflix / Looney? When did FreeBSD become aware of the issue? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 18:32:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B79215D5D6D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:32:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from lhvm02.lizardhill.com (lhvm02.lizardhill.com [64.27.2.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46065827BB for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:32:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from [76.217.50.227] (helo=[192.168.2.4]) by lhvm02.lizardhill.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hfTl8-0007H9-Fd for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:32:06 -0700 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org From: Allen Schaaf Subject: I've got a major question... Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:32:02 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190624-2, 06/24/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Authenticated-Id: netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46065827BB X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of netsecurity@sound-by-design.com designates 64.27.2.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sound-by-design.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.54)[0.540,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.65)[asn: 35916(3.32), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.46)[0.461,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.sound-by-design.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.40)[0.404,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[117.2.27.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:35916, ipnet:64.27.0.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:32:15 -0000 Hi, whomever you'll are, I've got a major question. I'm the President of the Board of Directors of a very small credit union, it's certified to help the lower income people, as well as being their tech support person - I'm a retired Information Security Analyst - and we are up against a major problem. As of the first of 2020 we are required to upgrade to Windows 10, which I hate, because Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows 7. this also means we will have to replace a couple of our computers as well. I would like to do what some of the people in  Scandinavian countries have done, move to open source programs like FreeBSD, Libre Office and Filezilla, or any combination that can be made to work well together. Currently we are using Filezilla on Windows 7 and it does a great job. The issues are that we have to be able to connect to external systems, corporate credit unions, ADP payroll, Mercury Mod (record keeping) and our burglar alarm system as well as a couple of other smaller systems. I'm not sure about how to go about making sure that the system we will operate at our end will connect to their end so I'm looking for some help and advice. Alas, we don't have much spare money as our "profit" in a good year is less than $65,000 which needs to be reserved for potential future bad years to cover bankruptcies and other problems. Part of my goal is to create a working system that we can help other small credit unions move to to help them survive the potential upcoming economic downturn. Can you suggest people to connect to as well as a path forward? Thanks, Allen Schaaf Retired CISSP, CEH, CHFI, CEI, CSCA Project Manager for Information Security - Business Process - Business Continuity - Supply Chain Optimization - Training & Instructional Designer - Sr. Writer & Documentation Developer - Certified Network Security Analyst & Intrusion Forensics Investigator - Certified EC-Council Instructor Oh, Lord and Master Time who governs our every step, show us the path and grant us the time for joy; joy sublime, joy without reason, joy that we share, joy without end.... --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 19:12:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4D2415D6B27 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:12:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodbrian77@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA6D783E60 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:12:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodbrian77@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id e5so3340639iok.4 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:12:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kNaAQZml5SRSCKYS6AVz8AtSc9RVlUrrzRVVRTST92Y=; b=pSVykC1esfMIUXvQ2l2+AlUUf2Z+tK8gThvIwEOexritKiB7Zl3F6KOBUti78hEVWA rjAyszQQtiC8Mdn87J1yorL/aVsHgZ0RoLyYJEMAx10qiu1OrMIWo+cRDoIf+1C47+0Z NLXo/M+4KlCyzudQq34tu9oJHcvsPFec60fRZjFliUnmgN4VWX51WBLudgL9grl/Wsj0 e8RGMEAZFFxmnXwqOJ9VKUGnRjCnJmeXDfQHxhVW/lf7+RoVinBEC9rMX9aekUHVr3o2 ONn0w7CdF+ZK/l8zOtsXHQ4mEU9vwdN8Ym66rSpbvJoWN274qah3OdFVskqPeC1MLS3b z+TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=kNaAQZml5SRSCKYS6AVz8AtSc9RVlUrrzRVVRTST92Y=; b=OrIln4mglG2EDdpUvxLOZ1zbw9CGwkMKewzu0VgjUiQtilaCdPU/T/M5TNYhGN0C56 V4NkH7O7LvmYbFp3gg6QTXLBv93bJl/zJnBXtiwj1qNYHJnAMnbyMaB2t07IxUpVtNfG w1YqlrA6SNSCHxUC42JHP+WEeHouHc9CrgcgrepG5bcs4+MrER3LHhEjE0aX7h5q7KP8 zHeJP8f2GIU6UP/asSiF6Dk+RgaLLhcEmQmZZwgsGlnyCBOwtGtS0xO0iOVHD+UJ9M5w S6mmY5XI37EgSc20CNOd1y/aGaiSmJmRjDFoYzfk8I+7RB3Vdwii13vqBQFQHviO0dec c1pA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWAZwjIxo0JbNUd8G/KltSWScOwr8J7bHsJfS3+QC7FrRsNwqjJ HoXaKURHcoWNayT5EmaRUgWt0n+RLy7X7X517waFQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwXbwmHimxTJggTeuDCJGMgDdD7KsSLHA018ZlR1Wsm8ayDYw0OA4VBaOF+NdEY+q227rHSax9BpXvL7pdS/gU= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8f86:: with SMTP id l6mr17060181iol.97.1561403558846; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:12:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190624065233.fb5f72f4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190624065233.fb5f72f4.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Brian Wood Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:12:27 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Eliminating IPv6 (?) To: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CA6D783E60 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=pSVykC1e; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of woodbrian77@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=woodbrian77@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.80 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.909,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.88)[ip: (-8.85), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.15), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:12:41 -0000 On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 11:52 PM Polytropon wrote: > Refer to /usr/src/Makefile's comment header where you will find > a short explanation of the different targets. > > make kernel: > This target performs both "make buildkernel" and > "make installkernel". It's possible to run this > command in multi-user mode and then reboot into > the new kernel. It's neccessary that world and > kernel are in sync version-wise. > > make buildkernel: > This target builds the kernel, but does not install > it. > > make buildworld: > This target builds the world, but does not install > it. > > make installkernel: > This target installs the kernel. It can be done > in single-user and multi-user mode. > > make installworld: > This is a very special target. It requires that > you have booted the appropriate kernel, the ("old") > world / OS in single-user mode, and performed basic > file system checks manually (as this is not done > automatically for single-user mode!). Before and > after this step, tools such as mergemaster can (and > should) be used. > Here's a short summary (from the source mentioned above): > > # For individuals wanting to upgrade their sources (even if only a > # delta of a few days): > # > # 1. `cd /usr/src' (or to the directory containing your source > tree). > # 2. `make buildworld' > # 3. `make buildkernel KERNCONF=YOUR_KERNEL_HERE' (default is > GENERIC). > # 4. `make installkernel KERNCONF=YOUR_KERNEL_HERE' (default is > GENERIC). > # [steps 3. & 4. can be combined by using the "kernel" target] > # 5. `reboot' (in single user mode: boot -s from the loader > prompt). > # 6. `mergemaster -p' > # 7. `make installworld' > # 8. `make delete-old' > # 9. `mergemaster' (you may wish to use -i, along with -U or > -F). > # 10. `reboot' > # 11. `make delete-old-libs' (in case no 3rd party program uses them > anymore) > > Also see "man 7 build" for further documentation. > > Thanks. The above steps make more sense to me now. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 22:02:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A0515DABCB for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:02:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 426C38B266 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix, from userid 1237) id 7EA374E64C; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:02:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2213.1561413756.1@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:02:36 -0700 Message-ID: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 426C38B266 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rfg@tristatelogic.com designates 69.62.255.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rfg@tristatelogic.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tristatelogic.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.tristatelogic.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.91)[ip: (-7.64), ipnet: 69.62.128.0/17(-3.82), asn: 14051(-3.03), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14051, ipnet:69.62.128.0/17, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:02:39 -0000 I was looking at my various UFS filesystems and noticed each one had a .snap directory. I did some small amount of reading about the purpose of these online and was (incorrectly) persuaded that they had relevance only to people using dump/restore for backups which I personally don't use. So I went 'round and deleted each one from each of my UFS filesystems. In short, I bozo'd it. Now I just read the newfs man page, and the description of the -n option, and I see that these .snap directories are needed to support background fsck. So, can I just recreate them all, on my existing USF filesystems, i.e. via mkdir, and then setting the proper owner, group, and permissions? I mean they don't need to appear first in the relevant directory files or anything special like that, do they? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 24 23:57:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B8615DC689 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:57:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0086C8DF20 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:57:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id a15so16485914qtn.7 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:57:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eM2U7dFOclc/CDYIkXZpwptwIsIo2tQB6x9WK03MEQA=; b=qBE8G3T6GQyPIeSwbTx0tOAykdZpUV9r/IHvdFCaCRjoey6rTgsqMvw/xRDFs7Q4Nw ZBBvs/p0F0iXkVZ0fIFKyStQIR/8k1zkNabQ+nD7KLeyUxzszP7+H4Iz7AODd8OPBAOj Zi+mI7S6JGAbVZLIgzd+HVNAQjWCjjxD3QXTMFGuSRQHV1JrS1l3anAwFfAoinWoXN1+ VmVJA+D4ojAFbBZX1b6BP93LcNm1C9fq5kzG85gD6lQ9kD7g0yW6IIEfzPJGN/1IV8fd CmKUxo4136kFqF5WB5FSXeO4SvTBe9DCau5eHWAGGipuGZ6IeKixWC27/L9QDAqGTAio tf1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eM2U7dFOclc/CDYIkXZpwptwIsIo2tQB6x9WK03MEQA=; b=h/l+M4LK+DPrbSRA96l7puTRfhS+4S+ejl+G+D7JN/RnwX0lanRToS/FdNj9u5XSoi pnyx+gGOYrGdm1wx4Tx9TSRAoFjV/HFwPPgFkxGGDVdn1Vx4EALDlFsmZJs54Qwcz0V6 GalfW2arUaA9BTRITC3GrjEzarz6iFyh73w/1CkiKh6KzldwP2Jmu/kDs6ZxUPsJdGUA arqTE2nTcQ/6VHWcKAbS2gJfV1rrn9wPbuJ2Fvg/9fp1n2ANVp60rIgYLi2NQespI6Ul 5JhBErlzUywEHWxIuZoxwQERxQFjHn6JSGzdpN4ZIERbpf1xaiCLVMOinTBlsME6Q7pa WLQg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWEafalwfXMfccEpBH95K7EP591hHGoE8Ua4RY56DhmbOkwDyvs SvEV2ZLz1KruF7+c/KBoY4jWwHa+EONGM5aGCQS4AP+Q1JF0Lg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwPN71vJqRNv46XrwHeKMmhvDXhhL2NkZcmRTJOXWqBZLCtUzL0JngjaRyaGFrdINYRIhelek7Q1h67P7KVggg= X-Received: by 2002:aed:2241:: with SMTP id o1mr120280394qtc.233.1561420665301; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:57:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In-Reply-To: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> From: Michael Sierchio Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:57:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0086C8DF20 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=qBE8G3T6 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.97)[ip: (-9.30), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.15), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.912,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:57:47 -0000 It's just a directory. mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 3:05 PM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > I was looking at my various UFS filesystems and noticed each one > had a .snap directory. I did some small amount of reading about the > purpose of these online and was (incorrectly) persuaded that they > had relevance only to people using dump/restore for backups which > I personally don't use. So I went 'round and deleted each one from > each of my UFS filesystems. > > In short, I bozo'd it. > > Now I just read the newfs man page, and the description of the -n option, > and I see that these .snap directories are needed to support background > fsck. > > So, can I just recreate them all, on my existing USF filesystems, i.e. > via mkdir, and then setting the proper owner, group, and permissions? > I mean they don't need to appear first in the relevant directory files > or anything special like that, do they? > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is = no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 00:14:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5165D15DD17F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:14:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0738E9B1 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:14:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix, from userid 1237) id B4D9B4E64C; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:14:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" To: Michael Sierchio cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2871.1561421679.1@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:14:39 -0700 Message-ID: <2872.1561421679@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6F0738E9B1 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rfg@tristatelogic.com designates 69.62.255.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rfg@tristatelogic.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.06 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tristatelogic.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.tristatelogic.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.960,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.89)[ip: (-7.60), ipnet: 69.62.128.0/17(-3.80), asn: 14051(-3.02), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14051, ipnet:69.62.128.0/17, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:14:42 -0000 In message , you wrote: >It's just a directory. OK. Thanks. I just tend to err on the cautious side, so I had to ask. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 00:48:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 756C615DDD6C for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:48:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta01.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5226F8FCF7 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:48:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from localhost ([96.28.161.151]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id fZczh60oIP088fZd1hih5O; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:48:07 +0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:47:52 +0000 From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNVUIF63MuWVXoEhcevSlOEtAk36JvKvGuHEGsAxpg7r/YHBDuT0rN+yyCl13ZJSXXl+9Z/ktEnhKJv5hzPSy4Gnu9vDQvp5d40WYlYJN/+1QYBWNDjD d8BGoZc6Jo1yY2WF3kkH3SANx+gmXSBiYO1rq/vCn6FhB1fe0Pn2R3nSEMDL3g7CafLf8e1FvshKjw== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5226F8FCF7 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mueller6722@twc.com designates 107.14.73.225 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mueller6722@twc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:107.14.73.0/24]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[twc.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[twc.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[dnvrco-cmedge02.email.rr.com,dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[225.73.14.107.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.04)[ip: (-9.04), ipnet: 107.14.73.0/24(-3.38), asn: 7843(-2.70), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[151.161.28.96.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7843, ipnet:107.14.73.0/24, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[twc.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:48:16 -0000 from Michael Sierchio: > It's just a directory. > mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap Where do you get /usr/.snap and /var/.snap ? I have seen /.snap in FreeBSD but never /usr/.snap or /var/.snap . Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 01:34:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBA615B3DA2 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:34:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DF396A6B8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:34:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B48A61F82; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:34:45 +0700 (+07) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.ait.ac.th; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received:received :received; s=selector1; t=1561426485; x=1563240886; bh=hgQZVj0pq wHbl54Xxwf7lLvS0pHPbcMY6aL1pPWIqaA=; b=X3uXmDwmJkd+1M73B6J8Ic3sH GkJ2Fmmhc4FGGMlIsJLBLSGzSsyaTTLuCFnCd6oLYkIFSPJi0cyORURM7saDh1hG h9zfoajzDqM4kMxAppK4lH02UgMt0utPbWxRwlHjNIOkRNWh8hf7AAg0qPro7qbk BGuwbovxwik064Zj40= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.ait.ac.th Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id EHysyIsgXKgt; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:34:45 +0700 (+07) Received: from banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (banyan.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2678861F85; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:34:11 +0700 (+07) Received: (from on@localhost) by banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x5P1Y8h5023951; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:34:08 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from on@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th) From: Olivier To: "Thomas Mueller" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? In-Reply-To: <20190625005221.0D63061F84@mail.cs.ait.ac.th> (mueller6722@twc.com) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:34:08 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0DF396A6B8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cs.ait.ac.th header.s=selector1 header.b=X3uXmDwm; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.ait.ac.th; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th designates 192.41.170.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.cs.ait.ac.th]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[16.170.41.192.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[cs.ait.ac.th,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[twc.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.02)[country: TH(0.09)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4767, ipnet:192.41.170.0/24, country:TH]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cs.ait.ac.th:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.610,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RBL_COMPOSITE_RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED_DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:34:56 -0000 "Thomas Mueller" writes: >> mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap >> chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap >> chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > Where do you get /usr/.snap and /var/.snap ? > > I have seen /.snap in FreeBSD but never /usr/.snap or /var/.snap . That's in case /usr and /var are a different filesystem. There is a .snap directory at the root of each filesystem. Best regards, Olivier -- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 01:49:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0208615B414C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:49:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [208.111.40.118]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A21C6AAD5; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:49:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (chombo [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:ae1f:6bff:fe6b:9e1c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99C8C38D0F; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:3c0b:f5d0:647:2a5] (unknown [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:3c0b:f5d0:647:2a5]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB2DB2F77; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:49:45 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mel Pilgrim Subject: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-ID: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:49:43 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8A21C6AAD5 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com designates 208.111.40.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluerosetech.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[echo.brtsvcs.net,foxtrot.brtsvcs.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.68)[-0.679,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.79)[asn: 36236(-3.88), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:208.111.40.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:49:56 -0000 I'm looking to set up a pure-IPv6 environment to test the viability of it. I tried this a few years ago and fell flat on my face due to the lack of NAT64 and DNS64 support. Reading through docs now, it looks like unbound has a DNS64 module, and NAT64 is baked into ipfw. Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations over the inertia of embedded systems designers, has it really become this easy to turn up an IPv6-only site? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 02:34:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C9A15B83FE; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:34:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ultima1252@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f45.google.com (mail-io1-f45.google.com [209.85.166.45]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 579666C537; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ultima1252@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f45.google.com with SMTP id j6so187603ioa.5; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2oSDMbuiBkXav7dxnVr1He46FEGjYk87ewaYNdzkrMI=; b=HUaYBDbHHvRKS2lF/Fb1KwwGRhue4qytsZOhFO7gKpXIAXHsIgrW0M49eZ+LNEtgDT b4Y9rkHg8djvUIvWKFdt49mRat7aVGro8mVudSGPXlO2a5eL7mb16NqTUpHse/ZbwXRg AogHwWj4ET9QOTwISUdxvdfcnf/aEmkynnbVKf2FgAoAyEixuH6U+yBcOw+uiwvSMbXl f85mty9MZFTWWDQWNuXWIPdW8T+/XmQyIGw34ZPpuygF4Fy9l2+7+5lww1m1Mp5RH3A+ PhFOmlUPzRt1eVcxIyHQn6yRIHgCrvhfmcrLItCqnZB7nm5YdQw6hEHrzNHZbWK1L84Z 4N7w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV2+zqA6RKtaB1/Z14cbMUEkAhNURJfhII0ejqxw+JIDoSED1Qa VDZa9c667gqfxpnZR6b6OYYZor4A X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzTrzhNA2GmCdLz42V8IvywjxwZvS4zUTGuQTfUxuvspnPW8zgYxEfAPOzi86z8cZPZqXck+w== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b987:: with SMTP id j129mr65203608iof.166.1561430050062; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-f54.google.com (mail-io1-f54.google.com. [209.85.166.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm10763305iom.42.2019.06.24.19.34.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f54.google.com with SMTP id e3so1666273ioc.12; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9749:: with SMTP id c9mr21187162ioo.258.1561430049296; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> In-Reply-To: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> From: Ultima Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:33:58 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: Mel Pilgrim Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 579666C537 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ultima1252@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ultima1252@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; IP_SCORE(-2.54)[ip: (-6.87), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.44), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ultimasbox.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[45.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ultima@ultimasbox.com,ultima1252@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ultima@ultimasbox.com,ultima1252@gmail.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:34:18 -0000 Hello Mel, While it may be possible to have an IPv6 only environment, I don't think it is really viable. There are simply too many things that don't run on or have very limited support for IPv6 that it makes it very hard to drop IPv4 altogether and until something comes along forcing the move it likely won't happen for at least another decade at the minimum. Best regards, Richard Gallamore On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:50 PM Mel Pilgrim wrote: > I'm looking to set up a pure-IPv6 environment to test the viability of > it. I tried this a few years ago and fell flat on my face due to the > lack of NAT64 and DNS64 support. > > Reading through docs now, it looks like unbound has a DNS64 module, and > NAT64 is baked into ipfw. Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations > over the inertia of embedded systems designers, has it really become > this easy to turn up an IPv6-only site? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 02:35:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4000315B849F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:35:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x742.google.com (mail-qk1-x742.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::742]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D87426C5CD for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:35:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x742.google.com with SMTP id i125so11409136qkd.6 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:35:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y7PZNAjjTBOq3wGCv/hmI908zVKSE0o9e06JAZ9IdyY=; b=l9K5sr3+jXVgUu3HIsjYAttq+gAA3oGl/xR6jV1tSdwMQByDFAPA/mhMe3mRh8POGb ZQUH285rETSZKN4BmaC9xCce0kbPWp1IGrNaTGQHwvqj/yY85Kytnd84GVwkbrA1wAGP 8Idy6AnaJWASyaKilSV0yZe6cMkDI0sdBEEDduEpq+KuKktmG7qo1BSxYOUTzUAHyAAU BwUZF09cyFoQQ65SshF8BsQRO53edeo2dpOnMkU5p0ddUvhM5wS+g9mytLJmyNIm0IlV 14MqV1CxUh5ScvDtfb2cb0+A8rjghf2wp/NeFaV2B5u1bcmDzx2Cl2QFkowOnjuXeLGM p2wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y7PZNAjjTBOq3wGCv/hmI908zVKSE0o9e06JAZ9IdyY=; b=aBJh2SV8ZEnWrtBSD271AycgmCIFf5oCdPW6dua3QOJc3QxDmfdcWk6Q/2xcbsX7++ yVzgOx1pJUngMNhrYS8XCAD0QXBKdn+SYGweJwTO1abuZA7VMsBvrqbyImRZjxknRS/p G24qyn+TJI2xbpO2C++eYyzikcjqu3GSP2j4ffH0UnIJVGjAvtm+cMi3DEpIX9df3JKX f6j+CAtMAGu/LOfKukxIlzekSIQFPBGKNpGWbedpJUUM8mhgg5Fis7cqpMjYrtGAvTDg DfxwIO2rx+Vj7yWW/8K8uKTnv7ZwQqTWIWcXWy9jiAz9rcLHtJXK8jCeOp4cPQSCuhKY wt8A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXacvL6O1j5DBrwLVivMu25ulJ8+WYG6I/DvPSrzVi+Uqj9ug1m uWKv+HtVzwxzAAH44X2PYU2m/+mJcgFwCIx6hhuEAc+Bmg0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwH1WwEiLu1QNh8H1uMfXb9Dbi6+z798GGZk3UeHtUaE7kQolfMeGY1loqt5Ly/ap+t52LH9Ay7u/DXGBePsNQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6085:: with SMTP id u127mr113192177qkb.25.1561430125153; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:35:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <5d11700c.1c69fb81.56ede.4e36SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <5d11700c.1c69fb81.56ede.4e36SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> From: Michael Sierchio Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? To: Thomas Mueller Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D87426C5CD X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=l9K5sr3+ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.24 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.394,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.54)[ip: (2.82), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[twc.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:35:27 -0000 There will be one per filesystem, provided those filesystems support snapshots. If you see only /.snap, you have one big filesystem. That's okay for toy systems, or laptops, but you really want separate filesystems for /var, /tmp (which may be a tmpfs), and /usr. On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 5:51 PM Thomas Mueller wrote: > from Michael Sierchio: > > > It's just a directory. > > > mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > Where do you get /usr/.snap and /var/.snap ? > > I have seen /.snap in FreeBSD but never /usr/.snap or /var/.snap . > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is = no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 02:47:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810FC15B8B58; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:47:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [IPv6:2607:f740:c::4ae]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D0C76CCDC; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:47:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (chombo [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:ae1f:6bff:fe6b:9e1c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91E9E38D0F; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:3c0b:f5d0:647:2a5] (unknown [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:3c0b:f5d0:647:2a5]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12FA42F88; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: Ultima Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> From: Mel Pilgrim Message-ID: <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:47:01 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9D0C76CCDC X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com designates 2607:f740:c::4ae as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluerosetech.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: echo.brtsvcs.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.34)[ip: (-8.47), ipnet: 2607:f740:c::/48(-4.31), asn: 36236(-3.88), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:2607:f740:c::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:47:07 -0000 On 2019-06-24 19:33, Ultima wrote: > Hello Mel, > > While it may be possible to have an IPv6 only environment, I don't > think it is really viable. There are simply too many things that don't run > on or have very limited support for IPv6 that it makes it very hard > to drop IPv4 altogether and until something comes along forcing the > move it likely won't happen for at least another decade at the minimum. Yes, that is why I wrote "Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations over the inertia of embedded systems designers". This a lab experiment specifically to iron out the very wrinkles you just stated. > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:50 PM Mel Pilgrim > wrote: > >> I'm looking to set up a pure-IPv6 environment to test the viability of >> it. I tried this a few years ago and fell flat on my face due to the >> lack of NAT64 and DNS64 support. >> >> Reading through docs now, it looks like unbound has a DNS64 module, and >> NAT64 is baked into ipfw. Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations >> over the inertia of embedded systems designers, has it really become >> this easy to turn up an IPv6-only site? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 05:10:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2935F15BCAB8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75A7670A0D for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:10:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.43.126]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MUY9w-1i64Yv38M4-00QVbf; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:09:41 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:09:40 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Allen Schaaf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190625070940.d5170f2e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1z3CbXJaAknqr5zMFWQQhilLXHvVg/goLULuoNIZ3cdm82VT32G t94gjosTU/Q2qT1R4avDw5urGV+buMnuCam8WMP6yqKBUflZzzGx6N0ikPmv9ZzFtZTr3vz wRE513c4xxU42/1i/chmHhmDWk8qDf7ehNP4n07FL3mJubahiQt0zK4j5ElZ773KwfeCE8e Gez8TjhwmSb+/w6HWLBQQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:EclZSVMPyLo=:I5TbBWMJrQBB1v/u4NR1VX F90Bp4g4Up7Dbtbbb0+WvMSeDU5SC6ovyhrYcRIB3Z0/J6BgLeTw7IQYAZ+jLRyVrtww/OfLj 1hao7ppZthy55hbb3O4ntNqmFQ3jAhlXsFk8rr13Vqa/7vGzb0hqz82sK1svw8nX5adtj7kV/ mSgBXhCFPrM4pNiv6T0h2WD6GJEk+FyNsbp8/PTDK5GvzrI4a+5/MzMw8BrzreY3vvCZS1MQ4 i2SdFk4ErL7017UfJg4gfoW5AOENhleUEixZUwP3Gj+RsOmH8aa0dJC6ofmW4p+f0sZJg119p oJyQ791JleCxV0RNhdGI/OtR47HHTIngKfEPRQAsw764UYp1IMto84FvGZY06SsMKpzzbyeXm zsCtX7RXyZMSlaRj+ZLZy38w6M+ZKrPL695R8gEH5cUqDZJGfIglHWX6/Wdo5Ak6/5eDIjNLv WJRpvVrTXOG6rVP+O6x6UHcjp6jKqqK/Vylhysr/J6nEb81J09x3KQGjQuNHFDKe/lHNTzXp7 KdC2XleQMmfLMfwxymXrTOWS73hjfhJ7b/fkjvjkJIWkKLEmdtv5GZVm6Jko2SYkUgNN9nKvN 9dyOvfFPHJf6vOHRHitHfUiS7MivSBI+HYoKq3IWDQYcmF+RSvZHlqBTKPNhOcLZbuOVo3IV1 PFCLuw6xx/TTTAuwCR4ZULYA5vhLLwzfdAJuU1aPU6MWdJTfXMaDRxDYiyc4J1snStx5BJQoI F3zex18Zc3JFL1rZYlDIK4apxFmAEofSe01O5qDFfvDZCQp9894eWT1jjpM= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 75A7670A0D X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx01.schlund.de,mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[126.43.12.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.76)[0.763,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.990,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[133.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.79)[ip: (2.87), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.49), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:10:03 -0000 On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:32:02 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > The issues are that we have to be able to connect to external > systems, corporate credit unions, ADP payroll, Mercury Mod > (record keeping) and our burglar alarm system as well as a couple > of other smaller systems. How do you connect to those? I assume the majority of services offer a web interface, so any web browser should be fine as long as the provider wasn't too stupid in implementing the servers (cf. messed up browser brand and version detection instead of reasonable feature detection). It might be possible that you will be required to run certain programs that are only available for current "Windows" versions. Test them with wine first. In some cases, this will work, if the program is not that obese or picky. ;-) > I'm not sure about how to go about > making sure that the system we will operate at our end will > connect to their end so I'm looking for some help and advice. My free advice is to test first. Build a test system with FreeBSD and make a checklist of all things that need to work. Test them, first with native solutions, and if those don't exist ("We do not support this 'Linux', we have no idea what it is.") try wine. In worst case, a virtualized environment for one specific application can also be helpful; data exchange can happen via virtual network. > Can you suggest people to connect to as well as a path forward? I'm sure there are providers of FreeBSD consulting services reading this list who will be able to offer you a good deal. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 05:17:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EA715BCF92 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:17:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7437270F4F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:17:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.43.126]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MtPzy-1iaCvH1WcY-00urQP; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:12:33 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:12:32 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Michael Sierchio Cc: Thomas Mueller , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? Message-Id: <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <5d11700c.1c69fb81.56ede.4e36SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VjHMDoS+j7V1ELGsdYUUM2GdRDLGapPNpKUdcPC0DRy1BYWXuAD 8/BPufn+8P4+e3jyXCUB41TC3oeOL7IVZFEllshGOrhqJcrpt1nq2nikVO4w43ws/l0MTQS wwSbgnml1CCvh3JSttUVt1HuLtwgBUAHzLkMw8vn3BcG1VDrizjbURwSet9f/TBe2I4Q4az A0GWPVoYVOXmNl9MLCu4g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:qtbgZ3DutdQ=:Cq/yj2LEViG3obAxhoVnje 84TwF41h8ENx2wwoYm0dl0c2urNGVpVJXC69Ql1bSPBfplLCQEZcvAFZ6XOlb664cIThIcDmG DdLcSRjWKmqaiGN5F46ZWrol27NJultBbruEkaMUNgBQeKbOOir7TMzyAOIvPIilUEYhhCmuQ fha3WXxk12/NFDsu64CrTLEXe5VGgR9Rf7JnnHZRsubd5Uf5GJKZjSqn5P5L8Z+lOh0W4jmeV M5s0KzRpyIm4zm4lYtk0304fu078ZEGwOiGPlo2e59gvDivMOIhBezf/dOGr636EYY/6MyPTw K2hsVZDpVLJAA7ZOJpvEasVPaWCL10S5BwvWQqHZ0JhJUVLN6nBdWfKjidxDUKXdwoi4o3h3Z f/bIpBP415dw1/dQEK+ZJkG3eE57eGTFtEqduChBgcOQBFEyacTya7csQ/lEJLfVCwRVNnvJH 6Y9EbUpemPopABKxa2Vtz0rDVO4Y51QNwYcG79Fan5Kwb2JmLdduxP9jRJtI4EIE/gmeV0oz3 KeLjcLJVM315pPsIR1hLvIpyPHUJnb3+HUtazUputaW37WVSh52jnGXqda8fzUQ4GhTiy4aCX IdXJke6uK+0FcJCbiA9lrWxOB0TiwMdq7UZeCYTsdRBc1zy0i88UVUuHIp4pgWOrtU1s/Jr9S 3TyO6uFHNSeStoO+IOJwk8DU1LZ0O6cZ41e5lzTfxPqF4WEuY7LxspANUnaIo+r+l42Tliz3S mHv2/P5oMoQ8IqTOU9BVOApuJBk/tn7CIQ6BR/G2s+DwdVfRAQk7k6EQEzo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7437270F4F X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.85 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.82)[ip: (3.03), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.48), country: DE(-0.01)]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[126.43.12.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.646,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.995,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[twc.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:17:56 -0000 On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:48 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: > There will be one per filesystem, provided those filesystems support > snapshots. > > If you see only /.snap, you have one big filesystem. That's okay for toy > systems, or laptops, but you really want separate filesystems for /var, > /tmp (which may be a tmpfs), and /usr. Is this still the case? Don't get me wrong - I've always been a fan of functional partitioning, especially to stop misbehaving processes to mess up the whole system ("disk full, can't even write error log") as well as using features such as noexec on "untrusted user filesystems". With ZFS of course, this is all a lot easier, but with UFS, do people still use functional partitioning instead of "putting everything into one big / because that's how you do it today"? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 05:30:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0438C15C05FB for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:30:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC418714B9 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:29:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTP id E163361F83; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:29:54 +0700 (+07) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.ait.ac.th; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received:received :received; s=selector1; t=1561440594; x=1563254995; bh=yGC6o42Z/ kgWrspuY3hLmlaBmFydwAAXKkvVzMcVRXc=; b=ec8BGkUif7pua8kQBZZFuoKEF RKX8LwJycLN8LfUVSpgmJbSl2k3eWdy6n2VDKTo30FgWpDI97W/u4MBn18MPrn2C /vQ2S6T5OBmeh3/KgOmwm1K0F94iLMyK6lWkzpJLm9ZAqCNWiHB6z499mtUV9Ln6 9F1hGgrocixxifeTZM= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.ait.ac.th Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id nf3RSv6bw1mu; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:29:54 +0700 (+07) Received: from banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (banyan.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EDD061F82; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:29:54 +0700 (+07) Received: (from on@localhost) by banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x5P5TpS4025621; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:29:51 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from on@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th) From: Olivier To: Polytropon Cc: kudzu@tenebras.com, mueller6722@twc.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? In-Reply-To: <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> (message from Polytropon on Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:12:32 +0200) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:29:50 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DC418714B9 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cs.ait.ac.th header.s=selector1 header.b=ec8BGkUi; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.ait.ac.th; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th designates 192.41.170.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cs.ait.ac.th:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.97)[ip: (-7.88), ipnet: 192.41.170.0/24(-3.94), asn: 4767(-3.15), country: TH(0.09)]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[16.170.41.192.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.cs.ait.ac.th]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[cs.ait.ac.th,none]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4767, ipnet:192.41.170.0/24, country:TH]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RBL_COMPOSITE_RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED_DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:30:04 -0000 Polytropon writes: > Is this still the case? > > Don't get me wrong - I've always been a fan of functional partitioning, > especially to stop misbehaving processes to mess up the whole system > ("disk full, can't even write error log") as well as using features > such as noexec on "untrusted user filesystems". With ZFS of course, > this is all a lot easier, but with UFS, do people still use functional > partitioning instead of "putting everything into one big / because > that's how you do it today"? It is the case for me, for all good reasons you mention above. Plus different backup policies on different file systems, plus moving one file system around without to have to move the whole machine... "putting everything into one big / because that's how you do it today" is what microsoft does, it does not mean it is the best solution. Olivier -- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 07:21:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9028815C2E45 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:21:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70BCD755C0 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:21:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85CA10378; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:21:09 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? To: Polytropon , Michael Sierchio Cc: Thomas Mueller , FreeBSD Questions References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <5d11700c.1c69fb81.56ede.4e36SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <5dd4f68d-d99a-4ab7-a217-76b9fee372e7@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:21:09 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 70BCD755C0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.60 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; IP_SCORE(-2.35)[ip: (-7.09), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-3.54), asn: 13037(-1.01), country: GB(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.mythic-beasts.com,mx2.mythic-beasts.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.946,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[twc.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:21:18 -0000 On 25/06/2019 06:12, Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:48 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: >> There will be one per filesystem, provided those filesystems support >> snapshots. >> >> If you see only /.snap, you have one big filesystem. That's okay for toy >> systems, or laptops, but you really want separate filesystems for /var, >> /tmp (which may be a tmpfs), and /usr. > > Is this still the case? > > Don't get me wrong - I've always been a fan of functional partitioning, > especially to stop misbehaving processes to mess up the whole system > ("disk full, can't even write error log") as well as using features > such as noexec on "untrusted user filesystems". With ZFS of course, > this is all a lot easier, but with UFS, do people still use functional > partitioning instead of "putting everything into one big / because > that's how you do it today"? I mostly use ZFS these days, but when using UFS I still use functional partitioning. This may just be inertia and habit on my part as I started using Unix back on the 6th Edition when disk sizes made it such partitioning necessary, but I tend to prefer /tmp and /var to be separate from /, even if /usr isn't. -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 07:30:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796A915C3142 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:30:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: from alioth.uberspace.de (alioth.uberspace.de [185.26.156.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B99CD7589E for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:30:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: (qmail 21165 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2019 07:23:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by alioth.uberspace.de with SMTP; 25 Jun 2019 07:23:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:19:43 +0200 From: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-ID: <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> X-Info: Keep It Simple, Stupid. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD, kernel 12.0-RELEASE X-Message-Flag: WARNING!! Microsoft sucks User-Agent: Every email client sucks, this one just sucks less. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B99CD7589E X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.66)[ip: (-2.62), ipnet: 185.26.156.0/22(-0.39), asn: 58010(-0.31), country: DE(-0.01)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[927589452.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.22)[0.222,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[45.156.26.185.bip.virusfree.cz : 127.0.0.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alioth.uberspace.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.29)[-0.289,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.967,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:58010, ipnet:185.26.156.0/22, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:30:21 -0000 At the troopers con there was an v6 only network and most things already worked, The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is required by most systems. But i don't understand why you would use a NAT64, as one of the reasons to use IPv6 is not needing a NAT Greets J From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 07:38:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE3315C35C6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8586A75EE1 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1561448324; x=1564040324; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=npKcrfjIay78NlrMz9kSBhUiG79h6Akn10WdxCSROPk=; b=VJA7dEU/OZlUgoeXH0kHPFaO03O6xkvNSyoPDkdKSf0vA98R5z0EzumNy5uj2boRoTguEVOD1r7CXVXibNwlNele1p/chik25dsx6hncdG63dKMzsgtIqQfxUk9jNDxXe8BUwc4sbWCqXqHu8CM5T6va53xJda9fw87Z5RSHiSk= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDA4YTc4NWYuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com [52.204.195.176]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:38:27 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:38:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hfg25-000Dsc-4M for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:38:25 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:38:24 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-Id: <20190625083824.2c259fbd7ef91efcc3857e77@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8586A75EE1 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=VJA7dEU/; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mxbh.socketlabs.com,mxbsg.socketlabs.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.511,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[ip: (-0.56), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.26), asn: 7381(-0.19), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:38:45 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:19:43 +0200 mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: > The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is > required by most systems. For lab work a /48 over a HE tunnel should do fine, only the router knows it's a tunnel :) -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 08:28:49 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD8715C47C8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:28:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: from alioth.uberspace.de (alioth.uberspace.de [185.26.156.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B695778EC for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:28:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: (qmail 12942 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2019 08:28:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by alioth.uberspace.de with SMTP; 25 Jun 2019 08:28:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:27:15 +0200 From: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-ID: <20190625082715.lt27gdyimo3etpjz@deathbolt.927589452.space> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> <20190625083824.2c259fbd7ef91efcc3857e77@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190625083824.2c259fbd7ef91efcc3857e77@sohara.org> X-Info: Keep It Simple, Stupid. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD, kernel 12.0-RELEASE X-Message-Flag: WARNING!! Microsoft sucks User-Agent: Every email client sucks, this one just sucks less. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8B695778EC X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.88 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.61)[ip: (-2.39), ipnet: 185.26.156.0/22(-0.37), asn: 58010(-0.29), country: DE(-0.01)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[927589452.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.36)[0.355,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[45.156.26.185.bip.virusfree.cz : 127.0.0.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alioth.uberspace.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.04)[-0.044,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.978,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:58010, ipnet:185.26.156.0/22, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de, mailinglists@927589452.de] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:28:49 -0000 On 19-06-25 08:38:24, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:19:43 +0200 > mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: > > > The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is > > required by most systems. > > > For lab work a /48 over a HE tunnel should do fine, only the router > knows it's a tunnel :) TBH: I just went live with it in my (home) network and gladly my provider announced a /48 per user From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 09:11:28 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DFA15C58AF for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gal.iecc.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E662D8114A for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:11:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: (qmail 93272 invoked from network); 25 Jun 2019 09:11:25 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=16c56.5d11e53d.k1906; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=8a6InKtS63UIHY8dGKe/PfNEbi+XprhBozmiif/Fii0=; b=N0Po72O7sEqC/KHSGzUpVJjWLkiFQkBLmalI17nsXm09tmgTDolEliEkm0fEgD4aA6PjHfj0xmTsgzEdV51f4F4Nw5OEaAW8pCQ1j43c0DYv5GGyxcqv2YKzIX7f5P3wArssUmPal6PFI8MU3UMMfw/2gOZlAL5yaDLTCqO02ZCZ+uHSpeNejmO6sksWub/bql+8HfBBvYhj7ikL9UPJz/u6bAcA3vRwd/tAq7LXgzzxJefww/72dE+PDU6mBztS Received: from ary.local ([199.91.196.51]) by imap.iecc.com ([64.57.183.75]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP; 25 Jun 2019 09:11:25 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D01A82016427DB; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:11:23 +0100 (+01) Date: 25 Jun 2019 10:11:23 +0100 Message-Id: <20190625091123.D01A82016427DB@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd@qeng-ho.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? In-Reply-To: <5dd4f68d-d99a-4ab7-a217-76b9fee372e7@qeng-ho.org> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:11:28 -0000 In article <5dd4f68d-d99a-4ab7-a217-76b9fee372e7@qeng-ho.org>, Arthur Chance wrote: >> such as noexec on "untrusted user filesystems". With ZFS of course, >> this is all a lot easier, but with UFS, do people still use functional >> partitioning instead of "putting everything into one big / because >> that's how you do it today"? If you're worried about limiting disk usage in different file trees, you really should be using ZFS rather than fixed UFS partitions so you get finer control and can still use the whole disk. On small systems where I use UFS, /tmp is mfs and everything else is in one shared partition. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 09:13:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5088715C5B24 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:13:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erwan@rail.eu.org) Received: from mail.rail.eu.org (mail.rail.eu.org [IPv6:2001:bc8:30d3:ff17::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EEE781515 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:13:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erwan@rail.eu.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:bc8:30d3:ffff::1000] (bibi-vpn.rail.eu.org [IPv6:2001:bc8:30d3:ffff::1000]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: erwan) by mail.rail.eu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5D2FE022 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:13:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=rail.eu.org; s=mail; t=1561453988; bh=KOseWDqq6XMKGrtAlz95YR4IhCnFMSVo4NeWF7+0Qpk=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=R1PrSWH7W7TfvAb0GOKhr5o84MR1J9+IcqdPTaqfI10ujiaPXwmpNpxeYfRWdO6x7 vViJYVAn24lioY6wDzb7ucNubhqSYOYtxXDVuhZGY9pMVJZqQRzm11qKAOHkF6WV/6 O83p3OmFabbPHOqvVWhr0eqgWGOF/yfnGf223SjQ= Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> <20190625083824.2c259fbd7ef91efcc3857e77@sohara.org> <20190625082715.lt27gdyimo3etpjz@deathbolt.927589452.space> From: Erwan David Openpgp: id=CAB1220E04DDF6E9CF0CD5C9B80EAC15E40FFD0F Autocrypt: addr=erwan@rail.eu.org; keydata= mQINBFJAaOMBEADAHsjODUMNImClvj0eAW7oCKr/cjccRts2DVrslhb6UEDbxgvnCKGtRy2P A9NcILX/+lG9zaoPw0caDSXDuubrC/giKZAphUTSmd+Uqz+9WDtU602WQuP5d5S1aAUe+fzT 6l9iDSR8Fz07ajjZ791Q0P1P4EwWQDbCJvmNXAknwysX0fIAlLpDaIQ0Asa6IvG/v8TyLZSE U0NytwIfHJMJk5btrM4fdaGc+4XnTK0E2Oa+Qjab18fsBLtHGctQUrDjrWvnGj1slHrfhUrT 67e9NHZgDPmEsOeCChd1ZWurIR0AQFp/Wrz80abJltk+aFswEzOvhkriOGjt4gM31BocpNbZ +sEEg9M6skAeXvuISkfS0bCM3kZ6MgywHE98AbA+8WxiKMRKuuuTNSEmIIRQt8dn7ad/1+r1 KAZ1bkB2naCDArqnpeDb65+378qh/2J6/M0UivSMFLzxXc+AyIxucjmrK8VCWQbDwUiA6sPU W4BC7V7+5j7ELzh4JzQX2LisNzPOqkaTVTfmCgDeL7V9LZErtLlG1rYbISrLvDnWNdiJ9l1d flxnhCs4oqn8KA5DtV6HNwIW6b6zwEHFoDPwtK2fctj0VIRwjiIMlyrEWHiC5NZoPyfexGlj RNP7oaDb6PIItgnBItWq/ZRymXP9gA945DjnrozsUZ02y7OMjQARAQABtB9FcndhbiBEYXZp ZCA8ZXJ3YW5AcmFpbC5ldS5vcmc+iQJUBBMBCAA+AhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4B AheAFiEEyrEiDgTd9unPDNXJuA6sFeQP/Q8FAlzBWT8FCRPm8dwACgkQuA6sFeQP/Q+Ikw/+ Img88okG/yRMOXScYx2/xzr85kpoWJ2k6Pl5w23zZ3oHflMGqXfp5mVQbq2X7MRx/CJwvBcK BAOPe2xVPLh26AlCOI+ZY/cM7HtnKPhIGRqTVi6K8wRE2HSpusVTP9sIt3V7oudYawJq/3KG zRsLXQb4FzvZxE+WXEB1NOHYZsH9A/gG1ljsTAux0Gh6RFp+Ij904YzFyh2gSRTpcSmyotXA X+ur/Cp4fPxCgIKP5evT0Nnq+LUwUoYjhHh73VubdmhouXa4EHQnBtGpuAyRDYnu0GPO2Oo6 Zudsin1MKbYdfwwKo2be7XQa2L1Xx3eavwseJqAAYucKxEQtiqenRWV40Av18Jkv17g0ao3L 0vtoKViljOJgL1Ny8436b6oLJzyNOby0OWHbRjp1l/RYfVYXW2wlF5XzLUMBclZX1fSjheoK vCewHoiRl9XPA+Y4RXMfHRRRFqTt3rkt8A7FBnVXePqwCl63FJ7Ywap60UIsUkXqI2fv5COH eduWKzLvwK22KaaleDadxDgRT7uJSS1XVIjUhkNgrqVMhfoo3yS6qi4+7baGVSrjYRLOp8IO bBtxuNPaQw+/R6BsLC0qacCV0FFY7k22aaKl1WoMNkzY38hyxOPp2VHLtwIGGhY8hHicQUsu KTkF0e24LM5x0Qd7/YyckRDN3FxM6wEYANu5Ag0EUkBo4wEQAL6D44lG/kjEQCY17c5qoeIK RMgR2ZUC6Mx2wPjhawaxRoiDE6EYEt7A5S1KEx+VXDClRnj0DrnCC5UqWsKq0443p3SploIq oCU9yaUe5sfutwCb3SWl2Ae9sAb09RIgdS41Hhg1U1TctIPjLy+0A9qtTopqPZi3ffE+RcJG RDJbJO9e8FiGIkGayruqmvFGJ7lOyK806FJJduDdLbK/l9G3tvxglvrAoPfjxPMPqUACk4t+ 5Gaiu56Kdzf+Fh6hk5UJSV5ETj5FLes+eQgwqa0cPbVsbxZ93Q3ZXBCRTJVP7V34cGjGEeqR ikmceoLJ3Z0erpPY6xn8uHP0AWTh+8g5IlGnt+nfwqPvQcCOBpQGEWIX5Olb52w9J6/TrowV u0aK4XjMuEKRt+ggHwmE6oGGwMppMsEOZXkMOMOJt5hStJ2XcNljH5lWFKL+JyuPJVjOZTt/ wbOk2xtUANAZdsGhQcrkkUx961PVAz4fo+8LDX4eRVLvuFUTJgRaMzlh6EQkgCzprYrZUHa2 5/+GTMygk6kG1cEn10gENAT4g9Gmq6FCExQERg5fZDwC5sxNVPqBa54zyXGGJ+4gReJglFsj xHPKgTaebVTMkwYhVR8UeAMb/yBzpsTD5dr0+Fc7VnmBs5rjqR8bnnx0agJ0HkIB9efAw5tl gwNbVUo5OaUvABEBAAGJAh8EGAEIAAkFAlJAaOMCGwwACgkQuA6sFeQP/Q8A7g//RF2nU4xm n9jlmP1YhiJ6Kx72ODpDVONAujNJ3i71RcGS84pTwedHm8VaOI9hH1eSIxM4AM+hFmruTw65 PR0aziUjMZRsZ112GgiC6UyzfAUIQ1ypjty6rpE1P8C2G2WNNuEwAnr6OiTZA4kim9YmF1FQ y61dbAbajJaFA/SABMu8WJW/YXVYtxHgGW7KLj9LHfnWmbkDz1ECBJsh76PeHavsqhRTHfp7 JWFmsVsxViJT4sr+HkiDfTDuT4k1Ba8Kj3yscsntyNH1l8G/YbDdsfHEhDmsYCLrGb/fUm+p C4DT4+ygLSCJkI1/elKiUpOmOuMgu5xieWhXaWKQa73zsdShhuyRa74MPA8WjkLyDRlb8cGv J5cwsjwnidHE2gYqZETGSGuZDoTPUb5kc2XEKwg1eLuL67acYllzp2epAOAbXn2RahZJPUNX D9MKacByetKBAusXNi4AszxcBqFEHpG4/t3stLmXIDd5LvUayovHd1steHbEPvl9dpU36Fte cnUNO6Z9JhIvAYy8b/7TT61qwQvOsca+NMlS/q+hPkx3npI1GFEAkanFLrLVE1MGT6C0kZ2M Em7mCpZQIZT2IhMsHXhaMQlP5np5/mFJ915bd+B3usfoQNWJmN3g7tVZGvl5Z7m7J5Zv3L84 U13tbPt33blV8WK4hIDA/c/rm2k= Message-ID: <162c9c97-db6c-73fe-b503-5373122f08a2@rail.eu.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:13:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625082715.lt27gdyimo3etpjz@deathbolt.927589452.space> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: fr X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:13:18 -0000 Le 25/06/2019 à 10:27, mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de a écrit : > On 19-06-25 08:38:24, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:19:43 +0200 >> mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: >> >>> The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is >>> required by most systems. >> >> For lab work a /48 over a HE tunnel should do fine, only the router >> knows it's a tunnel :) > TBH: I just went live with it in my (home) network and gladly my > provider announced a /48 per user > _______________________________________________ My home provider provides a /56. But the box it provides as home gateway, without which there is no support and which is very difficult to replace by a real router is unable to handle more than a /64 on the LAN side... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 10:17:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419D615C7619 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE36083E1E for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFD310378; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:17:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <93a8bcd3-df22-7f9b-ef42-2791987eb7c7@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:17:30 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EE36083E1E X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.mythic-beasts.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.915,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.27)[ip: (-6.86), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-3.43), asn: 13037(-1.00), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:17:35 -0000 On 25/06/2019 08:19, mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: > At the troopers con there was an v6 only network and most things already > worked, > The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is > required by most systems. Really? My ISP (Zen in the UK) gives you a /48 as standard (plus a /64 just for the link to them), and everything I've seen about IPv6 suggests /48 or /56 assignments are the norms. > But i don't understand why you would use a NAT64, as one of the reasons > to use IPv6 is not needing a NAT It's so nice to have servers with the same address in house as well as externally. -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 10:21:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C6015C798D; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:21:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org (saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org [217.29.35.151]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AFA78405D; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:21:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (juno.lyx [IPv6:fd2a:89ca:7d54:0:240:caff:fe92:4f47]) by saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PABeuQ060577 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:11:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PABeZ9026808 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:11:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: (from wolfgang@localhost) by juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x5PABeGb026805; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:11:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: juno.lyx: wolfgang set sender to wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org using -f Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:11:40 +0200 From: Wolfgang Zenker To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-ID: <20190625101140.GG26071@lyxys.ka.sub.org> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> Organization: private site User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.0 (2019-05-25) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org [IPv6:fd2a:89ca:7d54:1:200:24ff:feca:b4cc]); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:11:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8AFA78405D X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org designates 217.29.35.151 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sub.org]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[subnet.sub.net,mailin.pluspunkthosting.de,saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.28)[-0.277,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.19)[ipnet: 217.29.32.0/20(-0.53), asn: 16188(-0.42), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16188, ipnet:217.29.32.0/20, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:21:23 -0000 * Mel Pilgrim [190625 04:47]: > On 2019-06-24 19:33, Ultima wrote: >> While it may be possible to have an IPv6 only environment, I don't >> think it is really viable. There are simply too many things that don't run >> on or have very limited support for IPv6 that it makes it very hard >> to drop IPv4 altogether and until something comes along forcing the >> move it likely won't happen for at least another decade at the minimum. > Yes, that is why I wrote "Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations > over the inertia of embedded systems designers". > This a lab experiment specifically to iron out the very wrinkles you > just stated. Depending on what you want to do it is viable now. At work we use IPv6-only jails for web hosting, where all jails on one physical machine share one NAT64 gateway for outgoing connects to IPv4-only services like Github. That gateway is the only dual-stack jail on a machine, the host and all other jails are IPv6 only. The NAT64 jail also provides a reverse proxy for incoming web access on IPv4. Customers on an IPv4-only connection use a ssh jumphost to access the server. We use ipfw for NAT64 and bind for DNS64. At RIPE meetings twice a year I use the provided IPv6-only network for net access with phone and notebook; in these 10 days per year for the last couple of years I have not seen any problems myself. Some people reported problems accessing VPN gateways though, and accessing IPv4-only services that use DNSSEC is a problem if your local resolver on the client does DNSSEC validation. >> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:50 PM Mel Pilgrim >> wrote: >>> I'm looking to set up a pure-IPv6 environment to test the viability of >>> it. I tried this a few years ago and fell flat on my face due to the >>> lack of NAT64 and DNS64 support. >>> Reading through docs now, it looks like unbound has a DNS64 module, and >>> NAT64 is baked into ipfw. Waving a hand at bug-hunting and lamentations >>> over the inertia of embedded systems designers, has it really become >>> this easy to turn up an IPv6-only site? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 10:31:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382D115C7E4B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06A9084735 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id q26so12278298lfc.3 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:31:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZCh4H0wEriCJm/ksN7OwkbAf1ugEeUd6zr2v6pM4zMk=; b=V875HhGMI+PAwNavUfhVaDy42c8S7PBOn9tlcdIeT0WdE5I2wbLlJOt3vJuRkTxLcY 9EF+M2RR7G+16bvLUH9mhHazs4aR2x5mlO0wFHTRSyPFjua32MYCp1L9y3PuFWfrN0Rp aULvgEpTk3UDeBPWU87uy2YWvOTx7qFjSbbhqUq5QjkarH46/lCk3bOuq+OBHszwozNU vMRugZdN1RsfzKji7SQA+5oIvKlVF/JTjLloyd4PObJCcPE7uPA2v+12u4seKht78T1F 9LuCfN40HbFu2K+sqZv9jNaq0qxlnElBdbMsakEdvYVMvv0pKfv0BcGQulKKZZTgDUGd jyiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZCh4H0wEriCJm/ksN7OwkbAf1ugEeUd6zr2v6pM4zMk=; b=WZolWJ2mHoHeYBdEeIHUEIVCddWVPBzV3mI1FbEXusR6QzYGHorHSZbdpYIPA1kdai w/OKocEdlXT58B0b0487XXaks+W8H6MxfGo1QzG/hA4N9hUzryvcfBSLytghHXpr3AIR yKLofAFoMd9OLDKw+iLwTwUdKbQ0D/tJzPYLa6JmtFJlg6Db8WWAepNAPfVO94bety/v IAfzSIxPnZ2wInzpdmddcE4p5WW5NiRgKwEbpC3TPkesuWsN/RAAzFxNgGWS/b90cNKL r7cTxjb57N/71dPeomkMeN5teLrp3X/eVPXReVK4iif31DsAHw1tW9YoYbSjWL3MQvLt ixeg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUzNTe+EIYy+q+x0pU4lpAJQsCSEfA3rPZUhsCwczSDeMKXSdb0 IvEsmu847pjjxig23om+aNDPMuEqdBbARn+s5NN6AEAS X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyX9BuNSHrARhDaQxDB+gdNbrc6Ey+ua2FG+X6/OPZqqCeGIe9kM+YgI7q9FmrAO4J0oRpcx/9uJzBTtzOcL2E= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4152:: with SMTP id c18mr28682243lfi.144.1561458700357; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:31:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200908071142.n77BgWKF034276@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th> In-Reply-To: From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:31:01 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Cleaning emailUSB WiFi adapter for FreeBSD 10.3 To: Olivier Cc: User Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 06A9084735 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=V875HhGM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of odhiambo@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::130 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=odhiambo@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.76 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.948,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.07), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.56), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:31:43 -0000 On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:05, Olivier wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for an USB WiFi adapter that would work with my FreeBSD > 10.3. preferably something readily available online. > > And before you tell me to upgrade, this is a pfSense box, upgrading is > not a solution. > > Alternatively, I have one adapter that is recognized as product 0xc811 > vendor 0x0bda (Realtek), but the system has no proper driver for it, so > if I could get driver, that could be a workable solution. > > TIA, > > Olivier > I used Huawei E160. I had to disable the built-in CD-ROM though for it to work properly. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 10:36:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA76D15C80C9 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:36:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00479849A9 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:36:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1561458965; x=1564050965; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=N5e7lE8s0qJINmTlRcMl3y7g/rWVz5VAQn+4px9RFQs=; b=cwo6Gjl/QHCFFt+iIBFbOA/m1O9/l3sxiNURDSN8mhqadjZXnfSCvShJcevz3JT8xpLyWO7zH3cbv0G2m2pfihJ6xrlsruYJsYyWOlPWUJrPwwjxrdYOrKFtiix+NaVwpljyFFV42mIb6MMgdUYMvaQLLVFpZHksYeKbaTNsxZs= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDA4YmJhODkuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r4.h.in.socketlabs.com (s1-b40f.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.180.15]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:35:54 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r4.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:35:54 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hfinp-000Ehk-4M for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:35:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:35:52 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-Id: <20190625113552.369ccee676de102a867cf618@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <93a8bcd3-df22-7f9b-ef42-2791987eb7c7@qeng-ho.org> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> <93a8bcd3-df22-7f9b-ef42-2791987eb7c7@qeng-ho.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 00479849A9 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=cwo6Gjl/; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.72 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mxbh.socketlabs.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.54)[-0.544,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.965,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[ip: (-0.55), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.25), asn: 7381(-0.18), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:36:06 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:17:30 +0100 Arthur Chance wrote: > Really? My ISP (Zen in the UK) gives you a /48 as standard (plus a /64 > just for the link to them), and everything I've seen about IPv6 suggests > /48 or /56 assignments are the norms. That's the design, /64 for networks and larger assignments for groups of networks. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 14:20:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C14815CD940 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:20:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1C18CE62 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:20:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1AD171804B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:20:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20190625004825.AF1CB71804F@kicp.uchicago.edu> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <2fd51656-05c5-c609-a355-7275aab9cbb7@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:20:26 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625004825.AF1CB71804F@kicp.uchicago.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4F1C18CE62 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.29)[-0.289,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.51)[-0.513,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.42)[0.423,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[kicp.uchicago.edu]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:20:34 -0000 On 2019-06-24 19:47, Thomas Mueller wrote: > from Michael Sierchio: > >> It's just a directory. > >> mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap >> chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap >> chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > Where do you get /usr/.snap and /var/.snap ? > > I have seen /.snap in FreeBSD but never /usr/.snap or /var/.snap . Every mount point with UFS-2 mounted will have .snap directory. No places that are not actually mount points with UFS-2 mounted should not have .snap directories (ideally). Sometimes people do rsync and .snap sneak in from the place with different mount points structure... Valeri > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 14:27:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC03915CDCA1 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160058D2F5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AEF71804B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:27:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <5d11700c.1c69fb81.56ede.4e36SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <62afde1a-193d-600d-086b-7dfdea0e0b7e@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:27:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625071232.b01cecfc.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 160058D2F5 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.21)[-0.211,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.647,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: kicp.uchicago.edu]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.21)[0.211,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:27:42 -0000 On 2019-06-25 00:12, Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:34:48 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: >> There will be one per filesystem, provided those filesystems support >> snapshots. >> >> If you see only /.snap, you have one big filesystem. That's okay for toy >> systems, or laptops, but you really want separate filesystems for /var, >> /tmp (which may be a tmpfs), and /usr. > > Is this still the case? Yes for me. And in addition to /usr I do prefer to have /usr/local. Also I have /home, and some place where _users_ web files live mounted as separate filesystems (with nosuid/sgid and nofollowsymlinks for web directories). Even though the host is actually a bunch of jails, not even a single jail... Just me, humble sysadmin. Valeri > > Don't get me wrong - I've always been a fan of functional partitioning, > especially to stop misbehaving processes to mess up the whole system > ("disk full, can't even write error log") as well as using features > such as noexec on "untrusted user filesystems". With ZFS of course, > this is all a lot easier, but with UFS, do people still use functional > partitioning instead of "putting everything into one big / because > that's how you do it today"? > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 14:29:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36AC215CDD0A for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:29:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from pyroxene.sentex.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:3::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "pyroxene.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79CD68D35C for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:28:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.29] ([192.168.43.29]) by pyroxene.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PESseT045854 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:28:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: ZFS replication suggestions (summary) From: mike tancsa To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: Message-ID: <5f053a91-fff8-8629-43fb-b196fa404c56@sentex.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:28:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 79CD68D35C X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@sentex.net designates 2607:f3e0:0:3::18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@sentex.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RDNS_NONE(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtp.sentex.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.879,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.73)[ipnet: 2607:f3e0::/32(-4.95), asn: 11647(-3.59), country: CA(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:29:08 -0000 Thanks to all who responded. Looks like a few suggestions zrep, zrepl, sanoid and syncoid.  Going to spend some cycles testing and seeing what works best for this new project. All of them seem like they would work fine so far.     ---Mike On 6/21/2019 3:25 PM, mike tancsa wrote: > I have a new project coming up with replication.  In the past, I have > used various scripts out of ports, but was wondering what people are > using these days to sync their ZFS files systems between servers ?  It > will be about 10-40G in daily diffs.  Would like to send every 5-10 min > or so. Files being slightly out of sync for a short period of time is > not a big deal eg. in case of total failure on one box (e.g both power > supplies die) missing some data for a period of short time is tolerable > >     ---Mike > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 15:11:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD9A15CF106 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe36.google.com (mail-vs1-xe36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e36]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 314AF8EE0B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:11:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe36.google.com with SMTP id h28so8125132vsl.12 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:11:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zzHo8kwoBIQ+3FwQh3vF2LFvnZXi5ceO1y+SgIldJ9k=; b=TfIHM4d2NCn5kjtrD7ziIHwCgevBLr+xL3e95A7/r+ntBe+VS/G8LXbSPTmQMVevEx lA8sLyC3zkJB3j1qSDUBCeYxGVlw+DxrIS3kyylyDHgP2CqvKrs5AeD6HSpSrrk1sjy0 1qZ3grBP1YNzEaKYNBxGNOS0owGqG/pImcLMiiAUHWrpHQR/BNr/I+YROQE47vLiQlxB utRbHue7F4Pcp2cFK5hsKpRHcBMoV2F5lX7BKMBXPvMvNyjFUzTaFFlPpuIkKooyakCy P7F9kXTRQlr46iaUu6+HtuKD0d9sB1wB6FECl1YtswUa38ocDJfohVfesyZaFEJvI7vK c9KQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zzHo8kwoBIQ+3FwQh3vF2LFvnZXi5ceO1y+SgIldJ9k=; b=L/q5j8WYHCafXXdY0QZhFuZ04KtaehUrD+GU6XjUHg4CHvHfS9VOBOfFmK8MjIFkB4 RHmIle2yjJKNbKeu5oGQ+fT2fCr0jmgkxNRn4NJ/NSFR+nqy9XLKGL1VwMQwBDuIJC5/ iBJME0oUvBiDXdYkJIgYEn7XqSGA/0nJsWMvrMYRoIiTlWlb5kb95y7xhTiTp4ZXQzZb qDYAnkqO1MEasaC6lK3KOzTmyVeM5Nquslqxyp7cyF6ue6uVV/WgISzAPjP4kP+IRtw+ 17Ge7Vd5lYkM8xvwDY1CtFfj3UgWkjg8rticjOtFLN9ciOF3E/NVDjQGvU2M52EMaMDj 1E7w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUzARi0NC34AyJli+x4/wGpVvi4rOX+WmYDzC1EUp8CPsNROzAP 2ZWrGfOIQAALk06xw8RLzHYLNEOjiDN8gO1jtRvlnPEtlGg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyr8MauHM3mAWXuj9yYzbw0r8XqKSNPghI4mwUMTMdV3R9F+eb7ejHqSuF7Rf1togc9BrXc0j61wZ4BC8PfQZk= X-Received: by 2002:a67:c84:: with SMTP id 126mr80026650vsm.178.1561475472386; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:11:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alejandro Imass Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:11:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Allen Schaaf Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 314AF8EE0B X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=TfIHM4d2; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.39 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.838,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; IP_SCORE(-3.04)[ip: (-9.68), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:11:15 -0000 On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:35 PM Allen Schaaf < netsecurity@sound-by-design.com> wrote: > Hi, whomever you'll are, > > I've got a major question. I'm the President of the Board of > Directors of a very small credit union, it's certified to help > the lower income people, as well as being their tech support > 1) Where is the Credit Union located? 2) Why don't you use your organization's email? 3) You make it sound as if running a credit union is about desktops and utility programs, but where are the core systems running? How do you manage the accounting for example? (i.e. do you use an ERP or Mainframe-based systems?). I am sure you could arouse the interest of companies like ours if there is a business case to develop a full open source solution for small credit unions but your email sounds like phishing. If you are serious about this provide all the info so interested professionals and contractors can provide a more formal assessment. Best, Alex > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 15:23:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8780E15CF4E4 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2158F617 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id F046833C58; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: Mel Pilgrim Cc: Ultima , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> Reply-To: FreeBSD Mailing List Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:23:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> (Mel Pilgrim's message of "Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:47:01 -0700") Message-ID: <44v9wtr8o9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0D2158F617 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.32 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.76)[0.755,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.55)[0.552,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.990,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (0.11), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.08), asn: 7922(0.03), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:23:13 -0000 Mel Pilgrim writes: > On 2019-06-24 19:33, Ultima wrote: >> Hello Mel, >> >> While it may be possible to have an IPv6 only environment, I don't >> think it is really viable. There are simply too many things that don't run >> on or have very limited support for IPv6 that it makes it very hard >> to drop IPv4 altogether and until something comes along forcing the >> move it likely won't happen for at least another decade at the minimum. > > Yes, that is why I wrote "Waving a hand at bug-hunting and > lamentations over the inertia of embedded systems designers". I'm an embedded system designer, and the system I develop works fine under IPv6. We say we don't support it, because we don't specifically test it, but a lot of the time the applications are1 actually running over IPv6 without anybody noticing. The Windows GUI pieces can't configure IPv6 addresses, but we really prefer running with link-local anyway. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 15:54:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A4315D0257 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk) Received: from outmx-004.london.gridhost.co.uk (outmx-004.london.gridhost.co.uk [95.142.156.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63E3B69F08 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:54:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk) Received: from curlew.milibyte.co.uk (unknown [82.71.56.121]) (Authenticated sender: mailpool@milibyte.co.uk) by outmx-004.london.gridhost.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B0B7423ED1792 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:53:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=curlew.localnet) by curlew.milibyte.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hfnlc-0000Tj-Ba for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:53:56 +0100 From: Mike Clarke To: FreeBSD questions Subject: Confused by zfs errors Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:53:56 +0100 Message-ID: <2445405.ffieBuXMo3@curlew> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on curlew.milibyte.co.uk); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 63E3B69F08 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk designates 95.142.156.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.28 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[milibyte.co.uk]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.35)[0.354,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.05)[-0.054,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail3.eqx.gridhost.co.uk]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.90)[0.899,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[27.156.142.95.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; CTE_CASE(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:198047, ipnet:95.142.156.0/22, country:GB]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.49)[ipnet: 95.142.156.0/22(1.02), asn: 198047(1.54), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:54:07 -0000 I'm using zfs on FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE-p4 GENERIC amd64 on a desktop system which is shut down each night and rebooted each morning and my daily periodic scripts are reporting some filesystem errors which I am unable to fix and are somewhat confusing. /etc/periodic/security/100.chksetuid is reporting: --------------------------------------------------- Checking setuid files and devices: find: /home/liz/Maildir/cur/1342434798.M711754P2579.curlew.lan,S=82312,W=83431:2,S: Unknown error: 122 find: /home/mike/Maildir/cur/1354984767.M156539P5390.curlew.lan,S=217133,W=220003:2,RS: Unknown error: 122 find: /home/mike/Maildir/cur/1387550678.M716573P2948.curlew.lan,S=99139,W=101030:2,S: Unknown error: 122 find: /home/mike/mp3/tapes/Wind Music of Holst & Vaughan Williams: Unknown error: 122 --------------------------------------------------- And /etc/periodic/daily/404.status-zfs is reporting: --------------------------------------------------- Checking status of zfs pools: NAME SIZE ALLOC FREE CKPOINT EXPANDSZ FRAG CAP DEDUP HEALTH ALTROOT ssd 119G 48.1G 70.9G - - 32% 40% 1.00x ONLINE - sys 460G 314G 146G - - 48% 68% 1.00x ONLINE - pool: sys state: ONLINE status: One or more devices has experienced an error resulting in data corruption. Applications may be affected. action: Restore the file in question if possible. Otherwise restore the entire pool from backup. see: http://illumos.org/msg/ZFS-8000-8A scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 01:28:12 with 0 errors on Wed Jun 5 11:01:47 2019 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM sys ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 gpt/sys2 ONLINE 0 0 0 gpt/sys1 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: 1 data errors, use '-v' for a list --------------------------------------------------- I've checked the memory with Memtest86 which reports some errors in the hammer test which I imagine could be the cause of the filesystem corruption and I'm in the process of raising a ticket to replace the memory modules under warranty but in the meantime I need to try to fix the errors in the filesystem. The first problem is that I can't fix the "Unknown error: 122" message for the mp3 directory and the 3 mail files because if I try to delete them or copy my backup copies into them I just get another 122 error. When I run zpool status -v sys I get the following: --------------------------------------------------- pool: sys state: ONLINE status: One or more devices has experienced an error resulting in data corruption. Applications may be affected. action: Restore the file in question if possible. Otherwise restore the entire pool from backup. see: http://illumos.org/msg/ZFS-8000-8A scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 01:28:12 with 0 errors on Wed Jun 5 11:01:47 2019 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM sys ONLINE 0 0 15 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 60 gpt/sys2 ONLINE 0 0 60 gpt/sys1 ONLINE 0 0 60 errors: Permanent errors have been detected in the following files: sys/DATA/home:<0x0> Can I resolve the sys/DATA/home:<0x0> issue without destroying the entire pool and restoring from backup? Yes I do have a full backup which is free from these errors but I'd prefer to avoid deleting everything unless I really have to. The above zpool status from the command line is reporting CKSUM errors which the periodic script reports as all zeros. I've checked this over a number of days and the script always reports zeros while checks from the command line always give a number of CKSUM errors which vary (up and down) from day to day. I also see that if I run zpool scrub without the -v option as a normal user it reports "errors: 2 data errors, use '-v' for a list" but when I run it as root it only reports 1 data error. The errors first occurred before I ran zpool scrub on June 5 but scrub was not able to repair them. -- Mike Clarke From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 16:12:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783A615D0896 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@onlionyx.com.pl) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3C26AA6A for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@onlionyx.com.pl) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9ECAE15D0895; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B71515D0894 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@onlionyx.com.pl) Received: from shared-ald212.rev.nazwa.pl (shared-ald212.rev.nazwa.pl [85.128.160.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C217C6AA68 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@onlionyx.com.pl) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV (2) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.989 tagged_above=-10 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=disabled Received: from WIN-HUAKD8TBG21.local (unknown [93.177.73.218]) by karol101.nazwa.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A4D1C5D32 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:12:44 +0200 (CEST) From: "CHEMWORLD INTERNATIONAL" To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: CHAWLA CHEM AND METAL / PI of Phthalic Anhydride (P.A) / CHEMWORLD / 26-06-2019 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <156139014462e48b9bb52f82ada8125da0076b8bbe_64031@onlionyx.com.pl> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C217C6AA68 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=onlionyx.com.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of info@onlionyx.com.pl designates 85.128.160.212 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=info@onlionyx.com.pl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.57 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MANY_INVISIBLE_PARTS(0.05)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: onlionyx.com.pl]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[onlionyx.com.pl,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.933,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.98)[ip: (-9.80), ipnet: 85.128.160.0/19(-3.47), asn: 15967(3.31), country: PL(0.06)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15967, ipnet:85.128.160.0/19, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 16:12:48 -0000 Dear Mr. Ahmad / Mr. Azeem Khadim, Please see attached PI of PA for 100mt. 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Tel: +92 42 36297034 Mob: +92 308-8888987 Bushra Mob: +92 308-8888368 Babar Mob: +92 307-7776987 Tariq From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 18:19:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FE815D3375 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from pyroxene.sentex.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:3::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "pyroxene.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 769516F1E6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.29] ([192.168.43.29]) by pyroxene.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PIJ4Bb062606 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:19:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: mike tancsa Subject: ZFS Optimizing for large directories and MANY files Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:19:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 769516F1E6 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@sentex.net designates 2607:f3e0:0:3::18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@sentex.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RDNS_NONE(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.sentex.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.922,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.72)[ipnet: 2607:f3e0::/32(-4.95), asn: 11647(-3.59), country: CA(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:07 -0000 I have been trying to understand various zfs sysctl settings once again and how they might relate to optimizing a file server that has very few big files, but MANY small ones (RELENG_12).... Sometimes directories that get upwards of 30,000+ files and the odd time when some outside user process breaks, 100,000+ files.  Obviously, throwing a LOT of RAM at the problem helps. But are there any more tunings I can do ? So far, I have adjusted vfs.zfs.arc_meta_strategy=1 /|vfs.zfs.arc_meta_limit to 65% of ARC memory over the default 25% on the zfs set in question, I have set primarycache=metadata |/ /|Anything else I can do to bias towards a file system with MANY files ?  Unfortunately, I cant control the end users from dumping many files in their single directories easily. I think the hit happens, when they log in, do a dir, see what files they need to download, download and log out. As long as that is cached, its not so bad.  |/ /| |/ /|Doing some simple tests on an imported version of the data set (on slower spinning rust drives), something simple such as |/ /|# time find . -type f -mtime -2d|/ /|takes 40 min after a cold boot.|/ /|Watching zfs disk IO, its super slow in terms of bandwidth, but gstat shows the disks close to being pegged.  I guess the heads are thrashing about inefficiently ? |/ /|1{ryzenbsd12}# zpool iostat tmpdisk 1                capacity     operations    bandwidth pool        alloc   free   read  write   read  write ----------  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  ----- tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    335      1   899K  33.0K tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    402      0  1.02M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    265      0   559K      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    331      0   715K      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    276      0   650K      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    293      0   718K      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    432      0  1.11M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    435      0  1.03M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    412      0  1.01M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    315      0   717K      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    417      0  1.04M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    457      0  1.13M      0 tmpdisk      301G  1.46T    448      0  1.05M      0|/ /|top shows ARC steadily growing |/ /|ARC: 5119M Total, 2128M MFU, 2361M MRU, 1608K Anon, 73M Header, 560M Other      606M Compressed, 3902M Uncompressed, 6.43:1 Ratio |/ /| |/ /|stats show|/ /| ARC Summary: (HEALTHY)         Memory Throttle Count:                  0 ARC Misc:         Deleted:                                238         Recycle Misses:                         0         Mutex Misses:                           0         Evict Skips:                            1.04k ARC Size:                               17.28%  5.20    GiB         Target Size: (Adaptive)         100.00% 30.07   GiB         Min Size (Hard Limit):          12.50%  3.76    GiB         Max Size (High Water):          8:1     30.07   GiB ARC Size Breakdown:         Recently Used Cache Size:       50.00%  15.03   GiB         Frequently Used Cache Size:     50.00%  15.03   GiB ARC Hash Breakdown:         Elements Max:                           247.31k         Elements Current:               100.00% 247.31k         Collisions:                             7.20k         Chain Max:                              3         Chains:                                 6.99k ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ARC Efficiency:                                 2.53m         Cache Hit Ratio:                88.31%  2.23m         Cache Miss Ratio:               11.69%  295.48k         Actual Hit Ratio:               88.24%  2.23m         Data Demand Efficiency:         87.76%  20.01k         CACHE HITS BY CACHE LIST:           Anonymously Used:             0.08%   1.69k           Most Recently Used:           21.64%  483.05k           Most Frequently Used:         78.28%  1.75m           Most Recently Used Ghost:     0.00%   0           Most Frequently Used Ghost:   0.00%   0         CACHE HITS BY DATA TYPE:           Demand Data:                  0.79%   17.56k           Prefetch Data:                0.00%   0           Demand Metadata:              99.14%  2.21m           Prefetch Metadata:            0.08%   1.69k         CACHE MISSES BY DATA TYPE:           Demand Data:                  0.83%   2.45k           Prefetch Data:                0.00%   0           Demand Metadata:              18.79%  55.52k           Prefetch Metadata:            80.38%  237.51k|/ /| |/ /| |/ /|Once a single trip through the file system via find is done, top shows|/ /|ARC: 10G Total, 7161M MFU, 467M MRU, 1600K Anon, 191M Header, 2842M Other      1647M Compressed, 11G Uncompressed, 7.12:1 Ratio |/ /|find, on the second iteration only takes|/ /|0{ryzenbsd12}# time find . -type f -mtime -2d ./list.txt ./l 1.992u 69.557s 1:11.54 100.0%   35+177k 169144+0io 0pf+0w 0{ryzenbsd12}# |/ /|and the stats look appropriately better too|/ /| ARC Summary: (HEALTHY)         Memory Throttle Count:                  0 ARC Misc:         Deleted:                                238         Recycle Misses:                         0         Mutex Misses:                           0         Evict Skips:                            1.04k ARC Size:                               34.11%  10.26   GiB         Target Size: (Adaptive)         100.00% 30.07   GiB         Min Size (Hard Limit):          12.50%  3.76    GiB         Max Size (High Water):          8:1     30.07   GiB ARC Size Breakdown:         Recently Used Cache Size:       50.00%  15.03   GiB         Frequently Used Cache Size:     50.00%  15.03   GiB ARC Hash Breakdown:         Elements Max:                           688.43k         Elements Current:               100.00% 688.43k         Collisions:                             53.65k         Chain Max:                              4         Chains:                                 50.50k ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ARC Efficiency:                                 56.03m         Cache Hit Ratio:                98.07%  54.94m         Cache Miss Ratio:               1.93%   1.08m         Actual Hit Ratio:               97.64%  54.71m         Data Demand Efficiency:         86.21%  21.97k         CACHE HITS BY CACHE LIST:           Anonymously Used:             0.43%   237.54k           Most Recently Used:           12.19%  6.70m           Most Frequently Used:         87.37%  48.01m           Most Recently Used Ghost:     0.00%   0           Most Frequently Used Ghost:   0.00%   0         CACHE HITS BY DATA TYPE:           Demand Data:                  0.03%   18.94k           Prefetch Data:                0.00%   0           Demand Metadata:              95.72%  52.59m           Prefetch Metadata:            4.24%   2.33m         CACHE MISSES BY DATA TYPE:           Demand Data:                  0.28%   3.03k           Prefetch Data:                0.00%   0           Demand Metadata:              50.84%  550.75k           Prefetch Metadata:            48.88%  529.54k ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |/ /|Anything else to adjust ? I was going to use RAID1+0 for the dataset on SSDs.  Should I bother with an NVME drive for L2ARC caching ?  On my test box, I can sort of approximate how much RAM I need for metadata (11G it seems), is there a better programatic way to find that value out ? |/ /|    ---Mike |/ /| |/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 18:35:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A9315D39BB for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:35:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from pyroxene.sentex.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:3::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "pyroxene.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D60196FCCB for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:35:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.29] ([192.168.43.29]) by pyroxene.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PIZda0063828 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:35:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: ZFS Optimizing for large directories and MANY files From: mike tancsa To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: Message-ID: <37d87f73-0e67-f87d-90f1-1f098d91876d@sentex.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:35:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D60196FCCB X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@sentex.net designates 2607:f3e0:0:3::18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@sentex.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.49 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RDNS_NONE(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.sentex.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.959,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.72)[ipnet: 2607:f3e0::/32(-4.95), asn: 11647(-3.59), country: CA(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:35:47 -0000 On 6/25/2019 2:19 PM, mike tancsa wrote: > /|# time find . -type f -mtime -2d|/ > > /|takes 40 min after a cold boot.|/ > > /|Watching zfs disk IO, its super slow in terms of bandwidth, but gstat > shows the disks close to being pegged.  I guess the heads are thrashing > about inefficiently ? Just for comparison, I tried the same test on the new box that will be in production. With SSDs (instead of spinning metal) the same find on a cold boot takes 1.318u 55.396s 1:21.96 69.1%    35+176k 865535+0io 0pf+0w and the second time through, just 1.102u 48.666s 0:49.96 99.5%    35+177k 169189+0io 0pf+0w     ---Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 18:57:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5663515D423F for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:57:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from lhvm02.lizardhill.com (lhvm02.lizardhill.com [64.27.2.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC5457093B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:57:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from [76.217.50.227] (helo=[192.168.2.4]) by lhvm02.lizardhill.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hfqdX-0005ow-1H; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:47 -0700 Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Alejandro Imass Cc: FreeBSD Questions References: From: Allen Schaaf Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:54 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190625-2, 06/25/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Authenticated-Id: netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AC5457093B X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of netsecurity@sound-by-design.com designates 64.27.2.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.83 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[13]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.sound-by-design.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:35916, ipnet:64.27.0.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.62)[0.625,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sound-by-design.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.90)[0.904,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.966,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[117.2.27.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(0.65)[asn: 35916(3.30), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:57:57 -0000 Hi Alex, The credit union is located in Richmond CA, USA. I can't use the organization's e-mail because we don't have a system where board members have accounts. Currently only the CEO/Manage and the assistant manager have e-mail addresses. The cost of the current system is a bit much. One of the things I want to do is use Thunderbird - or a better alternative - for e-mail for both the staff and the board. This needs to be done once we either move to Windows 10 or a FreeBSD system. We don't even have a web site yet though that is in the process of being created once I can get the board to approve it. We do have a domain name, myavcu.org: Raw WHOIS Record Domain Name: MYAVCU.ORG Registry Domain ID: D402200000004219824-LROR Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.publicdomainregistry.com Registrar URL: http://www.publicdomainregistry.com Updated Date: 2018-01-17T03:47:55Z Creation Date: 2017-11-17T04:35:29Z Registry Expiry Date: 2022-11-17T04:35:29Z It is currently "hosted" at Lizardhill.com. It has been a hell of a process to getting things moved from the old way of doing things. We just celebrated our 60th year and the current CEO/Manager, Cecilia Heredia-Rocha, has been there for 20 years and learned to do things based on the old ways. She is working to move forward but it is a complicated process what with being of a size that mostly just gets sold off to one of the big credit unions, and they have no real interest in helping the lower income people. Running any financial banking system is a bit more complex than we think, primarily because we have to meet auditing requirements. What we do is almost totally local desktops and printers, plus paper copies of things for monitoring various things. The paper copies are simply local copies of data that is stored externally. The auditing requirements as to how to do things is more complex than a small banking system can do totally in-house. All of our primary record keeping is done on external systems. the two biggest ones are the corporate credit union Catalyst: https://www.catalystcorp.org/ and the other one on the financial end that we refer to as Mercury Mod, a company based in Silicon Valley - I don't have their correct name so I can't provide a link. the next major outside service is ADP for our payroll and help with human resources. To show you how slow the process of change is, ADP has been used less than 6 months. Everything was done with hand written time sheets and spreadsheet calculations and a lot of sloppiness. I'm sure the external systems are on mainframe, possibly ERPs as well, but nothing we have in-house is either. I hope this has answered your questions in sufficient detail.Best, Allen On 6/25/2019 8:11 AM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:35 PM Allen Schaaf > > wrote: > > Hi, whomever you'll are, > > I've got a major question. I'm the President of the Board of > Directors of a very small credit union, it's certified to help > the lower income people, as well as being their tech support > > > 1) Where is the Credit Union located? > 2) Why don't you use your organization's email? > 3) You make it sound as if running a credit union is about > desktops and utility programs, but where are the core systems > running? How do you manage the accounting for example? (i.e. do > you use an ERP or Mainframe-based systems?). > > I am sure you could arouse the interest of companies like ours > if there is a business case to develop a full open source > solution for small credit unions but your email sounds like > phishing. If you are serious about this provide all the info so > interested professionals and contractors can provide a more > formal assessment. > > Best, > Alex > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 19:25:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D6D15D4F5C for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta03.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EA6971BD5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from localhost ([96.28.161.151]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id fr4Uhm31eWnTifr4WhIVbA; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:41 +0000 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:21 +0000 From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20190625004825.AF1CB71804F@kicp.uchicago.edu> <2fd51656-05c5-c609-a355-7275aab9cbb7@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfAdUiIFwfWRThNzXuX+UG60xgmchCa8WF2v/XzQh1hVcI6rn7PMWY72C2B9rLUHPOEj/HV2wmx9EHaCAaxj1j5Pp3sKhsi1NASiihcaeWMyd/7YK9PAQ xT1ptO1tOVY47+krrKamaiifoMJDeEcV97G0JilM6clInGFasE3aYsKS+aUw5JhPqObiVkKVGk2/7A== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6EA6971BD5 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mueller6722@twc.com designates 107.14.73.227 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mueller6722@twc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.81 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.969,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:107.14.73.0/24]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[twc.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.878,0]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: dnvrco-cmedge02.email.rr.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.933,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[227.73.14.107.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.22)[ipnet: 107.14.73.0/24(-3.36), asn: 7843(-2.69), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[twc.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[151.161.28.96.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7843, ipnet:107.14.73.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[twc.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:43 -0000 from Valeri Galtsev: > On 2019-06-24 19:47, Thomas Mueller wrote: > > from Michael Sierchio: > > > It's just a directory. > > > mkdir -p /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > > chown root:operator /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > > chmod 775 /.snap /usr/.snap /var/.snap > > Where do you get /usr/.snap and /var/.snap ? > > I have seen /.snap in FreeBSD but never /usr/.snap or /var/.snap . > Every mount point with UFS-2 mounted will have .snap directory. No places that > are not actually mount points with UFS-2 mounted should not have .snap > directories (ideally). Sometimes people do rsync and .snap sneak in from the > place with different mount points structure... > Valeri UFS-1 or 2 file system created by NetBSD would not have .snap directory. But I can see where a .snap directory coud sneak in through rsync. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 19:29:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E0B15D5115 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:29:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from pyroxene.sentex.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:3::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "pyroxene.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2EC471DCF for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:29:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [192.168.43.29] ([192.168.43.29]) by pyroxene.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5PJSxqk068449 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:29:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: ZFS Optimizing for large directories and MANY files From: mike tancsa To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:29:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D2EC471DCF X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@sentex.net designates 2607:f3e0:0:3::18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@sentex.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.52 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RDNS_NONE(1.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.sentex.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.72)[ipnet: 2607:f3e0::/32(-4.95), asn: 11647(-3.59), country: CA(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:29:02 -0000 On 6/25/2019 2:19 PM, mike tancsa wrote: > on SSDs.  Should I bother with an NVME drive for L2ARC caching ?  On my > test box, I can sort of approximate how much RAM I need for metadata > (11G it seems), is there a better programatic way to find that value out ? Looks like zdb gives it zdb -d     ---Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 25 19:37:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D9315D55B6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:37:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from lhvm02.lizardhill.com (lhvm02.lizardhill.com [64.27.2.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C39C072788 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from netsecurity@sound-by-design.com) Received: from [76.217.50.227] (helo=[192.168.2.4]) by lhvm02.lizardhill.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hfrFN-0000jV-QB; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:36:53 -0700 Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190625070940.d5170f2e.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Allen Schaaf Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:36:57 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625070940.d5170f2e.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190625-2, 06/25/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Authenticated-Id: netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C39C072788 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of netsecurity@sound-by-design.com designates 64.27.2.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=netsecurity@sound-by-design.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sound-by-design.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.00)[0.002,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.sound-by-design.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[117.2.27.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.784,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.15)[0.150,0]; IP_SCORE(0.64)[asn: 35916(3.24), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:35916, ipnet:64.27.0.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:37:03 -0000 On 6/24/2019 10:09 PM, Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:32:02 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: >> The issues are that we have to be able to connect to external >> systems, corporate credit unions, ADP payroll, Mercury Mod >> (record keeping) and our burglar alarm system as well as a couple >> of other smaller systems. > How do you connect to those? I assume the majority of services > offer a web interface, so any web browser should be fine as long > as the provider wasn't too stupid in implementing the servers > (cf. messed up browser brand and version detection instead of > reasonable feature detection). > > It might be possible that you will be required to run certain > programs that are only available for current "Windows" versions. > Test them with wine first. In some cases, this will work, if > the program is not that obese or picky. ;-) I'm not familiar with wine. Where would you suggest I get the info needed? >> I'm not sure about how to go about >> making sure that the system we will operate at our end will >> connect to their end so I'm looking for some help and advice. > My free advice is to test first. Build a test system with FreeBSD > and make a checklist of all things that need to work. Test them, > first with native solutions, and if those don't exist ("We do not > support this 'Linux', we have no idea what it is.") try wine. In > worst case, a virtualized environment for one specific application > can also be helpful; data exchange can happen via virtual network. Absolutely. My goal is to test in parallel for at least a couple of months. It's a bit tricky to do this as one can not enter the data twice. My thinking is to, first of all, create a couple of duplicate accounts - same person but assigned a different account number with a note as to which one is entered with which system. > >> Can you suggest people to connect to as well as a path forward? > I'm sure there are providers of FreeBSD consulting services reading > this list who will be able to offer you a good deal. Thanks, Allen --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 03:49:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8616B15DEA71 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:49:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from vps349.pairvps.com (vps349.pairvps.com [IPv6:2607:f440::d85c:e745]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FAD78B68D for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:49:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (unknown [104.220.39.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by vps349.pairvps.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F0A601A249F; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: query re: dual-boot on two separate HDDs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Frank Fenderbender Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:48:59 -0700 Reply-To: Frank Fenderbender Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5FAD78B68D X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of frankfenderbender@council124.org does not designate 2607:f440::d85c:e745 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=frankfenderbender@council124.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.28)[0.284,0]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HEADER_FORGED_MDN(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[council124.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[frankfenderbender@council124.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mailwash31.pair.com]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.71)[ipnet: 2607:f440::/32(-2.47), asn: 7859(-1.02), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7859, ipnet:2607:f440::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 03:49:09 -0000 I bought a Dell Precision 5820 Tower XCTO Base RAM: 8 slots / 128GB maximum / 16GB per slot (I = went with 32GB) CPU/chipset: Intel Core i7-9800X 3.8GHz, 4.5GHz Turbo, 8C, = 16.5MB Cache, HT, (165W, DDR4-2666 Non-ECC HDD: (2) 3.5" 1TB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drives OS: Ubuntu Linux 16.04 Video card: Radeon Pro WX 2100, 2GB, DP, 2 mDP (5820T) Monitor: Dell 22" - Model P2219H I am adding the FreeBSD 12 install to the 2nd hard drive. Often, the dual-boot instructions appear to be for a same-drive, = different partition configuration. I give each OS its own [whole] drive, in an attempt to assist in the = avoidance of segmentation faults, corruptions, performance hits, and the = like, often used by data, applications, and OS slam-dancing, as in a = crowded "mosh pit". So, with many well-meaning ways to botch this, I thought maybe someone = had performed a similar sequence of steps that: adds FreeBSD to a second drive edits the GRUB/bootloader cfg file(s) I am uncertain if Grub gets called by the BIOS call to the bootloader, = and so, is specific to Ubuntu? I would expect it to be dealing with partition choices on one drive, = rather than stipulating starting a boot on another drive.=20 Examples: Configuring Ubuntu Linux GRUB/GRUB2 to load FreeBSD using = partitions on one HDD = https://cyberciti.biz/tips/configure-ubuntu-grub-to-load-freebsd.html = https://howtogeek.com/187789/dual-booting-explained-how-you-can-have-multi= ple-operating-systems-on-your-computer/ = https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/dual-booting-of-ubuntu-10-10-and-freebs= d.23101/ = https://linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/dual-booting-freebsd-a= nd-linux-4175494277/ = https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109272/add-freebsd-to-grub2-boot-= menu = https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/309964/installing-freebsd-alongsi= de-linux = https://reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/9kbuzk/how_to_set_up_ubuntu_and_freebsd_= to_dual_boot/ http://geodsoft.com/howto/dualboot/ Am I going to have to change the BIOS (or UEFI) boot order every time I = want to change which OS comes up when [re]booted? That is labor intensive, and I suspect that someone has shaken off the = archaic ness of it with some other methods or pre-OS boot-up selection = tool, I hope? Isn't there a boot option key that will bring up a simple selection menu = BEFORE one or another default OS has taken control? Perhaps smarter firmware? Maybe I could always have BIOS boot from a USB stick that contains code = to toggle which is going to be considered the primary HDD,=20 acting as the director to one of two (or N) primary HDDs? I dunno, and = reiterate, that I am currently in open eyes and ears mode..... It seems to me that whatever is already sending the boot process to one = drive, than that is where the change and menu need to exist, not on the = one drive within its "default" boot OS; I do not want a default OS, if = possible. I would like my menu to exist 'outside' of either (or "any", = in the case of 2+ OS boot options) OS and internal hard drive. This Dell system can handle 4 HDDs, so I could have a data HDD for each, = keeping the OS drives clean, or add external USB HDDs along with two = more OS internal HDDs (for instance, adding two more platforms as = further ways of testing code for platform-independence, such as Project = Trident, CentOS, Debian, and/or DragonflyBSD added to this and a second = workstation). =09 I am not telling Ubuntu's loader to look at a second possibility. I = guess that what I want is the system's BIOS to provide the menu, read = the OS boot selection, and load up an OS appropriately? Does that sound = sane and possible? I hope that my understanding of what is/can be done is near-to-correct, = and if not, appreciate steps (or a URL) that educates me and shows me a = path of steps) which provides a near-traceover for setting this up. As to the FreeBSD, I am going with the Auto-UFS [non-ZFS/] default = install to avoid complicating things with dependency issues, following = the selections listed in Michael Bernal's "A Comprehensive Installation = & Configuration Guide to the BSD Variants" (2018): Welcome screen: Install Keymap selection: Continue with default keymap Set hostname: ******* Optional components: [ ] Base system (debugging) [ ] Additional = Documentation [ ] Kernel = (debugging) [x] Ports tree [ ] System = source tree [ ] Test suite Partitioning your disk(s) [x] Auto (UFS) Guided Disk Setup Selecting the entire disk [x] Entire disk [ ] Partition Selecting a partition scheme NOTE: I am unclear re: 'GPT vs. MBR'? All my Mac internal and shared USB drives are = set up as GPT. I do not trust Apple w/anything except running = fashion shows, denying/ignoring bug=20 existences, and refusing both QA & pre-release = testing Their "FAT32" is nowhere compatible with that = used by Linux and Windows,=20 but this is not an Apple claiming their "MBR and = GPT methodology is correct, so... So, your suggestions/advice is appreciated for = this selection.... [ ] APM - Apple = Partition Map [ ] BSD - BSD = labels [ ] GPT - GUID = Partition Table <<< any = [dis]advantages ?? [ ] MBR - DOS = Partitions <<< = any [dis]advantages ?? [ ] PC98 - NEC = PC9801 Partition Table [ ] VTOC8 - Sun = VTOC8 Partition Table Review your partition setup [x] Finish Commit changes or revert & exit [x] Commit Installation process begins ... Enter password: ************* Select network interface to configure [OK] there is = only one NIC Configuring IPv4 & DHCP Configure IPv4? [Yes] Use DHCP? [No] Static IP address *.*.*.* Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0 Default Router *.*.*.* [OK] Recursive name servers 208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220 Region [2] America - North and = South Select country or region [49] United States of America Time zone [21] Pacific NOTE: I am unclear re: two options here, so opinions = will help Service to start at boot [ ] Local caching validating = resources <<< any [dis]advantages ?? [x] Secure shell = daemon [ ] PS/2 mouse = pointer on console [ ] Synchronize = system and network time <<< any [dis]advantages ?? [ ] Adjust CPU = frequency dynamically if supported [x] Enable = kernel crash dumps to /usr/crash System hardening options [ ] Hide = processes running as other users [ ] Hide = processes running as other groups [ ] Disable = reading kernel message buffer for unprivileged users [ ] Disable = process debugging facilities for unprivileged users [ ] Randomize = the PID of newly created processes [ ] Insert = stack guard page ahead of the growable segments [ ] Clean the = /tmp filesystem on system startup [x] Disable = opening Syslogd network socket (disables remote logging) [x] Disable = Sendmail service Finishing up (order of options presumes that the step returns = until exited...) [4] Apply = configuration and exit installer [1] Add a user = to the system [ ] Change root = password [ ] Set system = hostname [ ] Networking = configuration [ ] Set daemons = to run on starting [2] Set security = options [ ] Set system = timezone [3] Install = FreeBSD Handbook (requires network) If there are 'dual-boot' setup steps before and/or after the FreeBSD = install, please indicate them, as well as their place in the overall = sequence.=20 If you prefer to confer offline, than that is fine by me. Just send me a = direct email and we can avoid a back-and-forth Q&A stack of email that = may arise,=20 Thanks very much. ;-) chris frankfenderbender@council124.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 04:40:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB761598986 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:40:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B8788C9D0 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:40:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.37.5]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MqJVd-1iJ7wa25dz-00nPk9; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:34:47 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:34:43 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Allen Schaaf Cc: Alejandro Imass , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:KYG/QF/ZulclTHkN2gBbsO3EwRPVzWc4phBQA1iO5nz2AhQBG4q fvnP6AHJCh7bWHNUat/S0rUwPVaKoIYh3Uu4SGyE4t/ADKy1FnzpVGKvD32D7rkM6hWH0Gs DryHyKR+6Bn2aA5NWiPWerLahabu7rsbj50PCL2X18xsW++cpgRtiYfo7femc78ah0Bt5cd zntvvr+xyEqr8UANumnlw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:QAKPqZrxktI=:xZBuY06d5m7uKUMAd+aVzd xkMnvAqbbFVZ02Si6s6u13tb3abrRneI26p8E9cHYtk6XtHfoaWkRVi3VSKGjf+wdod9sQGfo wFTU2oo/hxDLpo0RHQsUdhVThSdTdLC4dtgZXoFedvrIcgWour3hlJOyFpQwY6PGjFKz76l1j A0yvVXxSzj4tbyY26Z0TnPLl1cBtHj/fVzgBiQLWdjZxhCd7KV96vCuRTvE+kVpiUY6JkitCO OkdMD7BxNQWd86PnY76lTa2UN0NU3Dc/k5dUFl8YTf33Z8s57MBQ/w/V1kHWdVhpWxAezN98W OqyjvEwc+y6p+OyEjprpMukppp5CrmP7mcGjSAPmNO42FK94kK0umDvJq/BzK6ps5Bb2c12LV 3ibpxsdnFioJuzK4R2M3vFoVfdOc8RFDB9k/LkvCRGMDzfWhcbETXSF/7vQSlgyqxpUYQfO8R 29mFjKO94w5FDnqNnu+qu+vc8ve59Hd12nG06sa4fIUX34GaWToIiEpWisXLf9BZ3XipZeWhC lJ1omb35c8llgkcqqIfOfK6myjrIC+UnG1wkY1ps3N4yOaadYJfrI42wTHSd4oFn8OW3bC44v 3RAw08ib0zSdoz/dE9WSDy+hxojJXmnI/jCi8iJRCROTaKiovIZBSMpHfw/Slb/hRf79BFS14 CKV3McW4aewnOlt1WSRod9LZNveBMbYWt7hkVft+16oA/5vWbPCZkZWIjqQjIYZ1zYjclfY00 Q5rYu7yjPHgtLsUAdXRBLTMq/8otilPEXgKjVrLhfii9T1yubPDD8lmu1PY= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5B8788C9D0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.98 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[5.37.8.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.63)[-0.631,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.63)[0.628,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.65)[0.646,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-0.05)[ip: (-1.32), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:40:26 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:54 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > One of the things I > want to do is use Thunderbird - or a better alternative - for > e-mail for both the staff and the board. This needs to be done > once we either move to Windows 10 or a FreeBSD system. Thunderbird is the common solution to abolish "Outlook" or web-based mailers. Users tend to find it much more intuitive in use, and it provides a basis for higher productivity. Of course there are alternatives, depending on what your users need: Something more lightweight? > Running any financial banking system is a bit more complex than > we think, primarily because we have to meet auditing > requirements. What we do is almost totally local desktops and > printers, plus paper copies of things for monitoring various > things. That could develop into severe problems, two paths: First, "Windows 7" (as you mentioned it) is near EOL and will hardly get any further approval, let alone the required security updates; second, using single-user desktops is always a security nightmare when they run "Windows", even "Windows 10", as the "non-corporate" versions don't offer you the control neccessary. Everything you do will be O(n) where n is the number of installations, instead of doing it O(1) with a centralized server, connected to individual workstations that do not have any local software (!) installed. Backup strategies benefit from this approach, too. And FreeBSD is actually a great foundation to achieve this. Also allow me to mention the high licensing costs - money you spend for no real benefit. > The auditing requirements as to how to do things is more complex > than a small banking system can do totally in-house. All of our > primary record keeping is done on external systems. the two > biggest ones are the corporate credit union Catalyst: > https://www.catalystcorp.org/ and the other one on the financial > end that we refer to as Mercury Mod, a company based in Silicon > Valley - I don't have their correct name so I can't provide a > link. the next major outside service is ADP for our payroll and > help with human resources. How do you interface with them? I know the question sounds stupid, but there are so many ways to do it (send CSV files per e-mail, send optical media via snail mail - yes, I have seen exactly this recently! -, use a web client, use some dedicated specific tool, write your own tool using a library that provides an API, etc.). I think _this_ is the key problem you need to solve (rather than getting rid of outdated "Windows" desktops, which is fairly easy). A FreeBSD installation with a desktop system, generic office productivity software and browsing tools solves many business needs. Additional training for the staff (as it is required with changing versions of "Windows" and "MS Office" is usually not needed). Primary tools will typically include: - Firefox - Thunderbird - LibreOffice You can also create a good pre-configuration that is a "skeleton" for every new user. You can centralize parts of configuration so updates will be available to every user upon login automatically. Depending on where the users "come from", choose the desktop environment and additional tools. FreeBSD offers enough choice to find something suitable. What you also get (as a nice benefit) is that LibreOffice is able to open "MS Office" files that "MS Office" itself has stopped supporting. You can also re-save it in a standardized (!) format. Furthermore, you can use external programs to create (!) standardized office files (typically called ODF - open document format, refering to word processing and spreadsheet files in the first place). So for example, you could have a batch-based, web-based or terminal- based program that requests certain information, calculates stuff, and outputs a wordprocessing file for further use. Or a PDF file, if no change is needed afterwards. Do you require specific external hardware? Check if it is supported. If you have laser printers, they commonly speak PS or PCL; newer ones speak PDF. If neither of the "big 3 standards" is supported, dive into detail (hplip, for example). In worst case, replace the non-printers for something usable. Do you have any other hardware you need to support, like barcode scanners, USB security tokens, label printers? Investigate. > To show you how slow the process of change is, ADP has been used > less than 6 months. Everything was done with hand written time > sheets and spreadsheet calculations and a lot of sloppiness. Here some in-house solution would surely be better. I know certain companies where it is done this way for decades, requires staff (to do things worse that a computer program could do better and faster), and is a "nice" display of "We don't master our tools, but we call ourselves professionals."; for example, data entry is done from scratch (!) each month, and results are calculated manually (!) and then entered into a spreadsheet, which is then printed, carried over to another clerk (!), who then re-enters the numbers (!) into a different system (!), calculate, rinse, repeat, print... I think you get the idea. :-) A key component of your plan should include to spot "bullshit work" you find on your way, and find a better solution. Office PCs with "Windows" and "Excel" seem to foster the growth of this specific kind of "bullshit work". > I'm sure the external systems are on mainframe, possibly ERPs as > well, but nothing we have in-house is either. You commonly interface with the mainframe systems though a kind of "front-end" (as mentioned above). Running _this_ on FreeBSD will probably be one of the tricky things, except of course it is a web interface. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 04:56:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F2715B3020 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:56:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B92C88D057 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:56:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.37.5]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MaIzb-1i3F7A2LLR-00WJCI; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:43:33 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:43:33 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Allen Schaaf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190626064333.3e6231cd.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20190625070940.d5170f2e.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:syGGDOOdBnXKYBrQ2LoIVkGMG/rmBcbmxYT3ZkM1ZgAwnBZonAU 1fkaUVb9wh6fCRW2NnCaPSBAA9bdEkL04NBskZhJDEzAibw/gtnFdtgXCC7TE/8lq2hL+6k PoM1mRrTjmU6RT+te4W8RLn2pjQ5Oar5MkSAF/FtIRrwRyj5jW/kxhiwpM1prlcbxBcPaE5 HOnOBOWYKLYLAq/+pqT1A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:k+xgY6jiprY=:4Vjz2JyvDMjomYFarBwj5R n2oSMDadk/g8NLcGeoBA1JMkO+tp17UjOXq546jPjrPv1lvMpke6IRgGCCWDCJS8fxrZNABUy UJckxHJB3r9bQUg3QO70Epu7R/AkbKGoJPkqJH1oNRb3zfmRJ2KJuarGeVGLIzt/RYeslTfy6 aLSl3sK3HDKj9jA8dP/9vqLy6WJOeJ1OKikMuvqU/Gx2zc/eh6kMUx6GjrQpmlhlUrrr6Qg/i PTRPpQBj92PcQeqYPmQBX/loe1NSVUo1l3IuoIL8syGvywQHoSNP5hl/mtzhCEqUccRMDn7p+ 0Xjk3Z3lpBUoEck3z5rBfEJKFRIGxmwXF/UNouDsr1TZc2EeWad8mx/J6zxcvXXz89fR/0kcZ 7isRGd1uZ7US80duPjV6zcX4kSNmU2d4/Fuqqm3Vh3H1UAHSFzNiqMLeJhzLFNxap4Nhpb3DM y6ZhZDDZHdsMhxLERDjjbStoGmcQVY7K996lG9NLFRQePS+YHrjwfRrOlT152Rb9yv9xtNF8t wfQGIa4TOUcQr3T08uLEOdzgoIsJu9KDsIGgBY6nq+w92ybtQZVqMADdC1wfZb3Zf3Ag0mZ2w 2aOz80bQHAZs3ekS4FleHdApKCpHcPXEiQZjpeVyO/nbqW8DsXNNJwR/227UgQwkI7uYVZjO1 LPP+mEp+NjtHBAyZny8nIh6w9l92mNZt55YyLNWDJ+248UXN0IGNIO7pGF/32v0C2PLTS6iXB wvOaFd1fy50aR95qNYBBNmbwQr5SGjiQzzscNfsMJbq3z7St+U51e5Bdyp8= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B92C88D057 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.30 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[5.37.8.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.889,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.71)[0.711,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.995,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[74.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.31)[ip: (-1.03), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 04:56:39 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:36:57 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > I'm not familiar with wine. Where would you suggest I get the > info needed? Wine is a way to run "Windows" programs on Linux and FreeBSD (and other systems). This is its homepage: https://www.winehq.org/ It's very convenient to provide specific environments for "Windows" programs (see "winecfg" program) so no "Windows" is needed. It works for "boring office applications" as well as for games, as long as there isn't too much actual "Windows" interfaces required. On the FreeBSD side, it's usually # pkg install wine and then use % winecfg as a user to create / configure the required environment. After that, you just do % wine MYPROG.EXE from a terminal (to observe possible errors on the way). > My goal is to test in parallel for at least a couple > of months. It's a bit tricky to do this as one can not enter the > data twice. Maybe you can arrange the provision of a test account that will not be subject to actual banking operations, but can be used for experiments? > My thinking is to, first of all, create a couple of > duplicate accounts - same person but assigned a different account > number with a note as to which one is entered with which system. This should also be possible. Keep in touch with your "people up the pipe" to make sure this won't cause any mess. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 05:06:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24BB015B347B for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E80A8D4B9 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:06:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.37.5]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MxDck-1iUMn70sjQ-00xcdy; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:05:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:05:56 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Frank Fenderbender Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: query re: dual-boot on two separate HDDs Message-Id: <20190626070556.0585d12b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UkL64UVsx1hklUzbQmjg5mvTdYQnVjn5I2mbtXekILYfhdEgIS4 LeFLzxREpw72AIYem7ZRm4pSI7CAj2RZlruFbPrOOUpOrUa3UG1RGcnAHIeKqdvn8ZXlr1x uAsoLt1hHHhDCgaESoaOiJ4GpT4Od+9A0dXlOiNb1ssYW1uvh5ZoarKtZst13JZsEnPxSAR cWH7cInYS/TgDUzBl296A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sl2SgiFAsoY=:MIKy80r0FH45vHlFdUfmqp PxeH14mfJ/GCzAnJSM7H3fLj1cC+df2M3No0WV7+nVsIjkcsBSVUjOeRzP50x702DcLjuKjSF qCaJKjUZ8XEK8idyuYetNXusJyPADWAAwcYSAq4bacCCxpUuS8+MZLoDrH/d5B1JBobBSA/l2 lBZ5sqyw9YZYe0dN9XQ3Dsg0yRKXndgZjPsOzgZHLTCdg+Ks1My+gkHAHAm/1OKtHWljYvqx5 fmRFb36EYtJN2opRwZN4vPSXxOlHRsnTZKuWEyFNoYUrc97xaAhdKYaVA//J5WatTh7th70IU ike7+ukB/wPBZUkEU0avf1envUIUx9k4ddtfLYqdAHpBWaTjFvWu81dzSzqskLbRY1YcEqcWo pRm3sH0+DAlCTWvOQ8GckR2N/afx6cuTy8Ng89cYop9v1EsX8/zVOCVW7/LtsvSTOmrbHrgBC 9OHvSCDorDVCEiZeqiTjSrUtj+6ebMCHUMnJoN9JNammk9JcHvv73t1Yh6WHEWYsrApW1jOl6 7WVkIbPJ3ihimg6fh3iTPeUXVz9Tx+v1xZ1VgfQjpjliFLNOKodZA3vp8gcBzUfBDvMwC615k l4Hmcj0Lz4TFxWoaUl5CupQ/4v1ucDIIcRYgMRwgiEaWVxcaQSzBoq4biw88IbMdECs3BkgOD NGZbObkpZNwx5nurV9k6mMHpNwe6LxIPLivTcJcfgGX20ejeyF3uUipbSgvAqgklqcf3loVn/ hbs5CDlqJjkqgDRkkLjY+Km0MXz5ZtzjUg5NggMJWjWezIq6FAm7m1vaErE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8E80A8D4B9 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.01 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[5.37.8.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.94)[0.939,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.48)[0.480,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.993,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.21)[ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:06:08 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:48:59 -0700, Frank Fenderbender wrote: > Often, the dual-boot instructions appear to be for a same-drive, > different partition configuration. That is correct, because it seems to be the typical configuration. Of course, booting from one of two (or more) physical disks is possible. Depending on your hardware, check if the BIOS offers a way to choose where to boot from at system start-up time. In many cases, there is a key assigned to this task. I'm not sure this only covers external media (optical disks, USB drives, network, etc.), but this could be the easiest way to go. I'm mentioning this because I had such a Linux / FreeBSD system in the past. You could select which drive to boot from, and each drive had a single-system installation on it, so it would always boot with the other disk absent. The "funny" thing was: After you selected one drive from the BIOS to boot from, that disk became unit 0, whereas the other one became unit 1; it could be accessed later on from the booted system. > So, with many well-meaning ways to botch this, I thought maybe > someone had performed a similar sequence of steps that: > adds FreeBSD to a second drive > edits the GRUB/bootloader cfg file(s) > > I am uncertain if Grub gets called by the BIOS call to the bootloader, > and so, is specific to Ubuntu? No GRUB will be called as long as the (default) requirements are met: First disk, first partition, active, GRUB "branch", GRUB menu; selection: continue boot from 1st disk -or- "branch" to 2nd disk's "entry point". The FreeBSD installation on the 2nd disk would typically contain the regular MBR boot record (no boot menu required). So your GRUB configuration would contain the default settings for Ubuntu (1st choice -> 1st disk), and an additional entry for FreeBSD (2nd choice -> 2nd disk). Technically, it doesn't matter that this is a "real" second disk instead of just a different partition. > I would expect it to be dealing with partition choices on one > drive, rather than stipulating starting a boot on another drive. Doesn't matter, just the device name changes for the "set root=" option. Maybe this will provide some inspiration: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109272/add-freebsd-to-grub2-boot-menu/109278 https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-and-linux-dual-boot.60407/ > Am I going to have to change the BIOS (or UEFI) boot order every time > I want to change which OS comes up when [re]booted? Depends. First of all, find out if you have a BIOS or a UEFI! :-) On the old dual-boot system I had, the "where to boot from" dialog would come up after POST, and you could press ENTER (choice from last time was active), or switch over to the other disks. This is the task GRUB would be performing in your case. > Isn't there a boot option key that will bring up a simple selection > menu BEFORE one or another default OS has taken control? Yes, many BIOSes (and probably UEFIs, too) have that. It's PF12 in many cases (but not always - check the documentation of your mainboard). > Perhaps smarter firmware? Nonsense. This is standard stuff for more than 20 years now. :-) > Maybe I could always have BIOS boot from a USB stick that contains > code to toggle which is going to be considered the primary HDD, > acting as the director to one of two (or N) primary HDDs? I dunno, > and reiterate, that I am currently in open eyes and ears mode..... This also sounds possible, but inconvenient (as you would have to make sure boot precedence would always choose that USB stick first, before attempting to boot from one of the two disks). > It seems to me that whatever is already sending the boot process > to one drive, than that is where the change and menu need to exist, > not on the one drive within its "default" boot OS; I do not want a > default OS, if possible. I would like my menu to exist 'outside' > of either (or "any", in the case of 2+ OS boot options) OS and > internal hard drive. But if you choose to use GRUB, that is quite tied to Linux anyway, so you'll have the "GRUB partition" on the 1st disk (which is the default load unit) that can then choose what else to boot. You can conveniently manage its configuration from Linux, while it should also be possible to do this from FreeBSD - but you don't configure GRUB several times a day... ;-) > This Dell system can handle 4 HDDs, so I could have a data HDD > for each, keeping the OS drives clean, or add external USB HDDs > along with two more OS internal HDDs (for instance, adding two > more platforms as further ways of testing code for platform-independence, > such as Project Trident, CentOS, Debian, and/or DragonflyBSD > added to this and a second workstation). GRUB should be totally okay to manage those. > I am not telling Ubuntu's loader to look at a second possibility. > I guess that what I want is the system's BIOS to provide the menu, > read the OS boot selection, and load up an OS appropriately? Does > that sound sane and possible? Yes, it does. Check the documentation about whatever you have, if the support for this feature is there. > I hope that my understanding of what is/can be done is near-to-correct, > and if not, appreciate steps (or a URL) that educates me and shows > me a path of steps) which provides a near-traceover for setting this > up. You should at least read aboput how the booting is performed, and which stages are encountered. For FreeBSD, "man 8 boot" provides a good introduction. It's not much different for Linux, even with GRUB in the mix, as I simplified (I wouldn't say "explained") a few paragraphs above. It's important that you make sure the "boot chain" toward FreeBSD is complete (MBR boot sector installed, correct boot partition named, contains loader, correct root partition named, contains kernel, and so on). This should be the _default_ way of actions taken by the installer "bsdinstall". > If there are 'dual-boot' setup steps before and/or after the FreeBSD > install, please indicate them, as well as their place in the overall > sequence. There shouldn't be anything surprising... :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 05:19:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378C115B3AC6 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:19:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26AA18DB12 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.37.5]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N4i7l-1igAXN3i1H-011m0V; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:36:59 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:36:57 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Thomas Mueller" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? Message-Id: <20190626063657.d31006a6.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201906260411.x5Q4BBiG001918@r56.edvax.de> References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20190625004825.AF1CB71804F@kicp.uchicago.edu> <2fd51656-05c5-c609-a355-7275aab9cbb7@kicp.uchicago.edu> <201906260411.x5Q4BBiG001918@r56.edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YlaThYuYz3x2VQohX9w+3ZilxQ5Rl4ol678V6fhLpxRA1oD3Fcv 8cfrvEIRf5e5+3yEhflKC07GsiAuhDMqw3z4RhiUshWr622WqIVmN45U5WbDzZ48gwyvc01 +btSCyDbgbg2f+IkCz91qR1pDpErvYjwYq1s6TRTVSX0Z0UdKhlxUwZg0+TdbbUqYL11Ojb chbOZhuSqqRuFgaq6VSYw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YllgDR2OyX8=:d4Yx4VlE9oczLExHXVmyyP Q7f3P/U26Us59ITf9e1B2P89S2mlQHrwdscidwA/uGtLRSaFJ2/9yj3QyVw9lm+r+GTr/vf0L mNdmNsb+NY+up1XBkYjmV3Vsgao2Syu1664HujwzrUEVkz8fgvHJIOIqaFnlfF+ZTZsZdZi62 yNKKxbuuo2puqw4VTAQV8smmhu9D1g/tg5c3NCYAdplp5OKSlP/mKGGI2axvd0V6SWYhIY+Em pF+BhcSgDniLFb4RcMvhALLQ459PJH5FOPzVYoLKv3GHYVfMRotwUHcvj/t9i2JCFuLTQFH51 UETGA3rB4X4VU/Dofw7405amQNkStBtATA7vrvK5Yr80rpwxJ4hs9vxyReJkhZyDW68NU72sm z+bnSmgrTfQ4QjXNYOQkd5rDCg1hDDHcF0cbynbVSNdXwgDybNsXgFTieaPujOqv/IW8lMHyw gr8PwLxtS6pBbxDv+zQwkslKvTTcroJXPQd4p8iSmfbBLXEo2ZV8cGcSZR9OV6e+PBjNP95sM 5qoXaxtnzmBioe/wp4O0i9Mk5pkw3DaSZ47T7FCKuOxBDtdTTB5h+MTbJtI3rbcWq/CrdDWiI zBbDnX0D9Va30emqMFama/K0oqJL5r/Q+UArmRBepURAIejQUdwikTGx0H3NLZ4gmVmUEFy8V oA4I9RY7as9UPByzsPnzlBFhg1yBV260+1n3F84T8nylQlSd9/8Td8xKhd1JgithQnVbs6YnM ZmDtgc9zCKBIbTqg8tt4/jPrEAblDMWPg/fDMhbsn1F+ZYCq4uhTfnNnJZE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 26AA18DB12 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[twc.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[5.37.8.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.97)[0.971,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.811,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[74.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.32)[ip: (-0.99), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:19:59 -0000 On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:21 +0000, Thomas Mueller wrote: > UFS-1 or 2 file system created by NetBSD would not have .snap directory. FreeBSD's newfs supports the following option: -n Do not create a .snap directory on the new file system. The resulting file system will not support snapshot generation, so dump(8) in live mode and background fsck(8) will not function properly. The traditional fsck(8) and offline dump(8) will work on the file system. This option is intended primarily for memory or vnode-backed file systems that do not require dump(8) or fsck(8) support. This limits the use of dump and fsck, but if you're not using those specific features, .snap won't be needed. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 05:55:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7543615B4A3D for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta01.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C61F8EC5D for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:55:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from localhost ([96.28.161.151]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id g0u0hYshyP088g0u2hysan; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:55:31 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:55:08 +0000 From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can I recreate my .snap directories ? References: <2214.1561413756@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20190625004825.AF1CB71804F@kicp.uchicago.edu> <2fd51656-05c5-c609-a355-7275aab9cbb7@kicp.uchicago.edu> <201906260411.x5Q4BBiG001918@r56.edvax.de> <20190626063657.d31006a6.freebsd@edvax.de> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfMgIyQEZ90eJ/vx436UsPP0a00jO7qRvSuHDF2lNwJroxpqfyidP0GWvUBO7RFh9Htb/5NwDXdqBg7O7EFdIsrEw2Qvi6X/lI+86uqIC0BZu6/l1DrcM wUTdfHTWvkgamp2ZDuI/3ox/6uNuVbgu57a2bX6vsjHTs9sHlK+Sker3/ek6puqsThA2+5K14XNMZg== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7C61F8EC5D X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mueller6722@twc.com designates 107.14.73.228 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mueller6722@twc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.76 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:107.14.73.0/24]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[twc.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.970,0]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com,dnvrco-cmedge02.email.rr.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[228.73.14.107.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.06)[ip: (-4.24), ipnet: 107.14.73.0/24(-3.34), asn: 7843(-2.67), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[twc.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[151.161.28.96.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7843, ipnet:107.14.73.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[twc.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 05:55:41 -0000 from Polytropon: > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:25:21 +0000, Thomas Mueller wrote: > > UFS-1 or 2 file system created by NetBSD would not have .snap directory. > FreeBSD's newfs supports the following option: > -n Do not create a .snap directory on the new file system. The > resulting file system will not support snapshot generation, so > dump(8) in live mode and background fsck(8) will not function > properly. The traditional fsck(8) and offline dump(8) will work > on the file system. This option is intended primarily for memory > or vnode-backed file systems that do not require dump(8) or > fsck(8) support. > This limits the use of dump and fsck, but if you're not using those > specific features, .snap won't be needed. NetBSD fsck_ffs works on UFS-1 or 2 file system, lack of .snap directory is no impediment. I have rescued FreeBSD file systems by booting into NetBSD and running their fsck_ffs when fsck_ffs from FreeBSD was not good enough. Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 08:40:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1628D15C097B; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:40:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from contact@evilham.com) Received: from yggdrasil.evilham.com (yggdrasil.evilham.com [IPv6:2a02:2770::216:3eff:fee1:cf9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C1B69372C; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from contact@evilham.com) Received: from yggdrasil.evilham.com (unknown [IPv6:2a0a:e5c1:121:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by yggdrasil.evilham.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Yc0W2jWfz3wr7; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:39:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Evilham To: Ultima Cc: Mel Pilgrim , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:39:50 +0200 Message-ID: <7d91ab1f-95e4-4926-8962-034e794c49a7@yggdrasil.evilham.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7C1B69372C X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=evilham.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of contact@evilham.com designates 2a02:2770::216:3eff:fee1:cf9 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=contact@evilham.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.72)[asn: 196752(-3.59), country: NL(0.01)]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[yggdrasil.evilham.com,mail.evilham.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[evilham.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.81)[-0.813,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:196752, ipnet:2a02:2770::/32, country:NL]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:40:09 -0000 Hi there, On dt., juny 25 2019, ultima@ultimasbox.com wrote: > Hello Mel, > > While it may be possible to have an IPv6 only environment, I > don't > think it is really viable. There are simply too many things that > don't run > on or have very limited support for IPv6 that it makes it very > hard > to drop IPv4 altogether and until something comes along forcing > the > move it likely won't happen for at least another decade at the > minimum. > > Best regards, > Richard Gallamore > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:50 PM Mel Pilgrim > > wrote: > >> I'm looking to set up a pure-IPv6 environment to test the >> viability of >> it. I tried this a few years ago and fell flat on my face due >> to the >> lack of NAT64 and DNS64 support. >> >> Reading through docs now, it looks like unbound has a DNS64 >> module, and >> NAT64 is baked into ipfw. Waving a hand at bug-hunting and >> lamentations >> over the inertia of embedded systems designers, has it really >> become >> this easy to turn up an IPv6-only site? At risk of sounding like an advertiser, let me point to: http://ipv6onlyhosting.com/ As an example of it really being viable nowadays. Basically, as other have mentioned, there are a few caveats, but most of them are easily solved. Software with hard-coded legacy IP addresses is not that common now, but an issue that I have seen often are fields (settings, input, ...) that won't accept IPv6 addresses as valid, but will accept a domain name as valid: quite often in these cases, pointing to a domain name that echoes back the IP over DNS (e.g. 8.8.8.8.xip.io for IPv4) is enough, in that if needed DNS64 will add the AAAA records pointing to the NAT64 and the piece of software that refused the IPv6 on settings/input, just transparently uses that. Basically, if you are unsure weather things can work out: they can, it's not painful and more often than not, even if you forget to do DNS64, you only notice that something is different when using the all-time Big Offenders (Twitter, GitHub, ...). -- Evilham From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 13:32:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF16615C8AE2 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:32:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd01@dgmm.net) Received: from out4-server.securespamfilter.com (out4-server.securespamfilter.com [89.187.86.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED8AB6E3A9 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:32:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd01@dgmm.net) Received: from phantom.hostingseries.net ([89.187.86.9]) by server1.securespamfilter.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hg81v-0006Te-4E for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; 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Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:32:06 +0100 From: Dave To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: freebsd01@dgmm.net, freebsd01@dgmm.net Subject: Re: query re: dual-boot on two separate HDDs Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:32:05 +0100 Message-ID: <5146512.8gLySxXtyI@amd.asgard.uk> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-AuthUser: fbsd@dgmm.net X-Originating-IP: 89.187.86.9 X-SpamExperts-Domain: pickaweb.co.uk X-SpamExperts-Username: phantom X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0Q9DGisTdy29Heef28Cu3sipSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVUZbR67CQ7/vm /hHDJU4RXkTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDlVo9zfgzQ4Wlm3+W3UHOX4Qa YpRhAYd86uWsk05meL64Dcwf+CZK8NXgy3In+fX7Sp1tcCTa6u6/r+fb51DXNv7Hrzz3S1b48+29 eERTSEtmGDnWynLP3lCOL1iSHb9JpeRe7rym3gJTauWmVTj9PSx/adqNMHahp5XtfA4ajmwm9bQU RyzcRopnGhnYmMEprg3E57r/Hq5lretslq4h6QJ4wOGdQcgc/WQa4yzUXumcXszKUcFfWEdlY+ph TUCGfOd0Lki8UcIop6ZvPjacVBxV4OtODaDwF9f4xH3I7i6wUeakzlSnqfLLyOr5H7FiHbVLduG7 PstHTe7h/7/D5mOQWqD2EgxIEt8t6SnCFqtWvr8JTlYtiVjMDmwO7HTyFMs5UMAjsy6cUdxf7Drg 4IgdtaR3o9khRoQLGgWg43DTIKZzwOAK1MPDwCdasCxRRCgIxW1i4SUk2QT29/WGoGiH1Wgh6RAe nBR+licROGYfkJnxOckQyokJVEa/BeYqqSFJ2+IaPfTEs0dVjxV+JI8gAPLMSZnYZDcIC4vudShH G/o9yvt8qKTZkCrxNwplAGTg1f/n0/UFbT969QCxzlruCM+6VEqIieGiY97fYuRzXSs4uthCmAS0 GZhfBJsF22Z0WyByCOn1LE0SDM+wV2Jz6HK/dap4WNDhfoBY0LWbLNyzY/V0GrDyrrXBLNo92b5E VhXl+0SAgT4HyNRqwk4vidrAbzPztKfs4s5XguIqNfH/BIlq5TJ+iSpBAmXGk63oZ0GOZkbhG8uj u0cK2bhjjiZ790zDPIl0wjnMaql714xGucFHZ+mqW7WV/465BM5ipbdT2ZlbyX+K4gbCt486A0Aq NLPkQzqqaeImyTcgzuuzwAxa49h0/4k6LZihuYn7Eiosaib2kKTvHX+aG0M3JUSyT+qpsy87yHsk upD3jMGGxCc2F5HG8A9hOo4X X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@server.securespamfilter.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ED8AB6E3A9 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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DMARC_NA(0.00)[dgmm.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[17.86.187.89.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:32:33 -0000 On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 04:48:59 BST Frank Fenderbender wrote: > I am adding the FreeBSD 12 install to the 2nd hard drive. > Often, the dual-boot instructions appear to be for a same-drive, different partition configuration. > I give each OS its own [whole] drive, in an attempt to assist in the avoidance of segmentation faults, corruptions, performance hits, and the like, often used by data, applications, and OS slam-dancing, as in a crowded "mosh pit". > > So, with many well-meaning ways to botch this, I thought maybe someone had performed a similar sequence of steps that: > adds FreeBSD to a second drive > edits the GRUB/bootloader cfg file(s) > > I am uncertain if Grub gets called by the BIOS call to the bootloader, and so, is specific to Ubuntu? > I would expect it to be dealing with partition choices on one drive, rather than stipulating starting a boot on another drive. Since it's going to involve a keypress or two anyway, a quick'n'dirty "fix might be to use the BIOS boot menu, usually accessed from a Fn key at boot time when the BIOS logo/info screen is displayed. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 14:55:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C221D15CA4D0 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com) Received: from n1nlsmtp01.shr.prod.ams1.secureserver.net (n1nlsmtp01.shr.prod.ams1.secureserver.net [188.121.43.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "relay-hosting.secureserver.net", Issuer "Starfield Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB5C071006 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:55:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com) Received: from n3plcpnl0290.prod.ams3.secureserver.net ([160.153.156.39]) by : HOSTING RELAY : with ESMTP id g91HhSyGxKUm2g91Hh6rUM; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:35:31 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marketdataprozone.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: Date:Subject:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Hkc+LEGD+RCaT5yFKI82COVaLxSybz+kuj3v8s9qyYU=; b=B/Yw6GzwggNA/JfkRq4aN99hfF LnfMlu3PG0lMsz1cDbQM3WuPIu7P3SXRtaVHVEF035QhyXx6aSmekozTgyDwZERV7GGLlGQjqMKza J7pfMlDtlOTuaIqAF2uEHjbMeBv79ZSpKbUmmcs3rll2LYmb6co8TqWlKvgQt8t+UFNhFutjty8UT XV9/Ua0Ab0y4zQCIBOv0UfJNYy0jIfa7FiTwZzOxOX4VEkazteITyMpo1wZWnpEJynvIlbC52phLA kMM3uXHyFqYsPcg8u9MoxgApSNrlmCvZbJfwOlnhtyM83KWeBxFiaNhAJGOY2e9jyXBtsz+aAt9eY DrlH0ylg==; Received: from [207.244.100.149] (port=54653 helo=WS1100) by n3plcpnl0290.prod.ams3.secureserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hg8mc-00CWpb-Ok for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:20:23 -0700 From: "Jillian Wyatt" To: Subject: CYREN User Contacts Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:49:03 +0530 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AdUsKhUUITQEqP5FQjmB3w4DpL92BQ== Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - n3plcpnl0290.prod.ams3.secureserver.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marketdataprozone.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: n3plcpnl0290.prod.ams3.secureserver.net: authenticated_id: jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com X-Authenticated-Sender: n3plcpnl0290.prod.ams3.secureserver.net: jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfMuS/ZceLg4n+8lIGxzg11WWyxV10wJ0jCPaiI3bD8m0bcVYiKEO+GDgSbatDDgY92IS8eMUX/FRTxVza6OE099f0AGoqwCcAZrwEC5qKcPeNNSGh1KL RUhRNdoFMRz8GFEAM9gbfHTG5w8vf21bJ28UHbGjXxG2eYtTI1WMDkGXVMS15t+cud3ZFIF0d7SKQPBunfXsu/uRyoLpPt67rN+QE63t+KNnKDgInK+5JAqF qBEc8BFZux37jF2L/5gwrg== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BB5C071006 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none (invalid DKIM record) header.d=marketdataprozone.com header.s=default header.b=B/Yw6Gzw X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.12 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[cached]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[marketdataprozone.com:~]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.28)[ip: (0.74), ipnet: 188.121.40.0/22(0.49), asn: 26496(0.21), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26496, ipnet:188.121.40.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.75)[0.746,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[marketdataprozone.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.09)[0.093,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.60)[0.604,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[201.43.121.188.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[jillian.wyatt@marketdataprozone.com]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[marketdataprozone.com:s=default]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 14:55:36 -0000 Hi, I would like to know if you are interested in acquiring CYREN User Contacts. Let me know your Target Geography and I will get back to you with counts and pricing details. Regards Jillian Wyatt Marketing Manager If you do not wish to receive further emails, please respond with "LEAVE OUT" in subject line From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 17:12:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1193715CD4DE for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A892766F1 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 3589B15CD4DD; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDCD115CD4DC for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from smtp2.cretaforce.gr (smtp2.cretaforce.gr [159.69.244.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B58DF766F0 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp2.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F0AD1F47A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:12:44 +0300 (EEST) Received: from christoss-air.fritz.box (athedsl-127617.home.otenet.gr [85.75.74.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3DEEC2734A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:12:44 +0300 (EEST) From: Christos Chatzaras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: server crash and reboot Message-Id: <6AE42AFB-8CF1-4269-A227-04ED3A9C45ED@cretaforce.gr> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:12:43 +0300 To: FreeBSD Questions List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B58DF766F0 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 159.69.244.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.52 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:159.69.244.42]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.cretaforce.gr]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.484,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[42.244.69.159.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:159.69.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[32.74.75.85.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_SPACES(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.917,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.969,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ipnet: 159.69.0.0/16(3.09), asn: 24940(-1.80), country: DE(-0.01)]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:12:54 -0000 Today I had a server crash. I run FreeBSD 12-STABLE. Any idea what can = cause it? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: pid 6914 (php-fpm), jid 3, = uid 1005: exited on signal 11 Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: random.c:387: = REQUIRE((__builtin_expect(((rng) !=3D ((void *)0)), 1) && = __builtin_expect((((const isc__magic_t *)(rng))->magic =3D=3D ((('R') << 24 | ('N') << 16 | ('G') << 8 | ('x')))), 1))) failed, = back trace Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: random.c:387: REQUIRE((__builtin_expect(((rng) !=3D ((void = *)0)), 1) && __builtin_expect((((const isc__magic_t *)(rng))->magic =3D=3D= ((('R') << 24 | ('N') << 16 | ('G') << 8 | ('x')))), 1))) failed, back = trace Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: pid 90507 (named), jid 0, uid = 53: exited on signal 6 Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #0 0x2dcf80 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #0 0x2dcf80 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #1 0x4c781a in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #1 0x4c781a in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #2 0x4e356c in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #2 0x4e356c in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #3 0x364335 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #3 0x364335 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #4 0x363e1b in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #4 0x363e1b in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #5 0x4252f3 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #5 0x4252f3 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #6 0x42379a in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #6 0x42379a in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #7 0x422498 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #7 0x422498 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #8 0x4eddab in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #8 0x4eddab in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: #9 0x800a82746 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: #9 0x800a82746 in ?? Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com named[90507]: exiting (due to = assertion failure) Jun 26 19:08:00 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:08:00 server6 = named[90507]: exiting (due to assertion failure) Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com syslogd: restart Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com syslogd: kernel boot file is = /boot/kernel/kernel Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com syslogd: last message repeated 1 = times Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: Fatal trap 12: page fault = while in kernel mode Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: cpuid =3D 2; apic id =3D 02 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: fault virtual address#011=3D = 0x31 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: fault code#011#011=3D = supervisor write data, page not present Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: instruction pointer#011=3D = 0x20:0xffffffff8109a439 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: stack pointer#011 =3D = 0x28:0xffffffff827166e0 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: frame pointer#011 =3D = 0x28:0xffffffff827167c0 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: code segment#011#011=3D base = 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: #011#011#011=3D DPL 0, pres = 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: processor eflags#011=3D = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =3D 0 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: current process#011#011=3D = 79168 (mysqld) Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: trap number#011#011=3D 12 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: panic: page fault Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: cpuid =3D 2 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: time =3D 1561565281 Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: KDB: stack backtrace: Jun 26 19:11:49 server.example.com kernel: #0 0xffffffff80c16e77 at = kdb_backtrace+0x67 nm -n /boot/kernel/kernel | grep ffffffff8109a ffffffff8109a800 t free_pv_chunk ffffffff8109a8f0 T pmap_is_modified ffffffff8109a910 t pmap_page_test_mappings ffffffff8109af70 T pmap_is_prefaultable From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 18:48:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E1915CF58A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:48:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [208.111.40.118]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43687832A9 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:48:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (catnip [73.240.250.185]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C89538D0C; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:70d3:d328:7143:b8ad] (unknown [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:70d3:d328:7143:b8ad]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51F5D3162; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> From: Mel Pilgrim Message-ID: <14695ff8-9796-4b4d-457e-e48818600745@bluerosetech.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:48:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 43687832A9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com designates 208.111.40.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluerosetech.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[echo.brtsvcs.net,foxtrot.brtsvcs.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.930,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.79)[asn: 36236(-3.88), country: US(-0.06)]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[185.250.240.73.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:208.111.40.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:48:17 -0000 On 2019-06-25 0:19, mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: > At the troopers con there was an v6 only network and most things already > worked, > The hardest thing is getting a real IPv&/ bigger than a /64 as this is > required by most systems. It's trivially easy to get routable prefixes up to a /48, and even Comcast will allocate a /60 to IA-PDs. What system requires a prefix shorter than /64 to number a subnet? > But i don't understand why you would use a NAT64, as one of the reasons > to use IPv6 is not needing a NAT NAT64 is not the same thing as NAT44 or NAT66 (the kind of NAT to which "IPv6 doesn't require NAT" refers). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 18:57:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7287315CF850 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:57:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [208.111.40.118]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA49C83768 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:57:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (catnip [73.240.250.185]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19E3F38D0C; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:70d3:d328:7143:b8ad] (unknown [IPv6:2601:1c2:1402:1770:70d3:d328:7143:b8ad]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8822E3166; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? To: FreeBSD Mailing List , Lowell Gilbert References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <44v9wtr8o9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> From: Mel Pilgrim Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:57:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <44v9wtr8o9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DA49C83768 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com designates 208.111.40.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.02 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluerosetech.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: echo.brtsvcs.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.928,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.79)[asn: 36236(-3.88), country: US(-0.06)]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[185.250.240.73.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:208.111.40.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:57:32 -0000 On 2019-06-25 8:23, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Mel Pilgrim writes: >> Yes, that is why I wrote "Waving a hand at bug-hunting and >> lamentations over the inertia of embedded systems designers". > > I'm an embedded system designer, and the system I develop works fine under > IPv6. We say we don't support it, because we don't specifically test it, > but a lot of the time the applications are1 actually running over IPv6 > without anybody noticing. The Windows GUI pieces can't configure IPv6 > addresses, but we really prefer running with link-local anyway. That's the problem, though. If the vendor doesn't support or test it, I can't rely on it in production. That's a big part of what I mean by lamenting embedded systems designers. Until we have IPv6 parity, all those printers and multifunction devices sit on their own IPv4-only VLAN, accessible only through print servers so that I don't have to worry about things like unsecured SNMP over IPv6 because the vendor didn't bother making their ACLs dual-stack or only added the "read-only" config bit for IPv4, leaving the IPv6 SNMP open to unauthorized writing (actual observed behaviour with a major printer manufacturer). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 19:37:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1849915D027B for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:37:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 660D684BF1 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:37:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id z13so1207439uaa.4 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YOliVNmyjxVHtISpf8gZVcPwhY+EJVYljLH5pIOD8sU=; b=vugGXvbZgb0fMvmBBIKtrhdV7IoqTEOar9+POMkrSCgaPPmSjcJtLwFicZNJNam+uy LfgbAiS/13n8Zwxey4n2clpobd6zMlUto/iZ1KE8+g4CJgUB8Cf6JpTS6wQY7teigImW /zrhuqwhEUMN5TzVOmra2x3tpfLyajCFWl4WatfFFkHIerzYdcXgcG8h6qsJHqLcmMQ4 TzQlmOQKeZcNOeFn5T4USoiy96PfjgzddR7Pkc3TqCOxzWz+yWxN6AzX/Cbhh1MsLheN lIC2qxan0qwuMQuuKgCIsA1824v+dvirp3ovI+gFbF9xX39X+fJl2iLPvj17FpYXW0AF 3HHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YOliVNmyjxVHtISpf8gZVcPwhY+EJVYljLH5pIOD8sU=; b=ZeMh0KlZiLfmNO+XVDu8jFkaPEjuL4gO7LX/Dj/T3cOPJA1jsHbEjxG6NGe0cgjE2l RzEQ85kwOZu5dwOq2tnZctWWcdmYzxM10e/rtvEt5WeMJoV3MW78cGOc+LwsyPDsni1i Oap/+WX0a2Ko+l0+0PfTjE3SCon1p1UIJboHcRL7kkDNtIAsfF5mXz5W6CLs1eNrsie1 VIvXZpuSM62VBgZI8bo8pOd9Jh+NfIl1/TSBqFs5P3/TQcGLAkPaSVKgq4qhmH1onzPh 1gNdxcQPwZ01ai+yO/Z95Y/V6VVw5tyZeUOdsQvgg/6twaDRoUNJK4mkzFv86Qorc6mq cBqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWuS+2VdYozZupZA402CkI1mTiNTzhUt8VuutHgRKdmmtM7zmVs 4qHKH+mQhFHkJtAokc0ptSLRQq9mDJP7e3zBj9muRHkQ9DAJMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzEZC+sue1+imWdfhwr8sRGsMhqHIR9PsHrjzzbejypJCTRrghA+/Y98g4audhNNbP9+tLVIOU4/DVSmAJodBQ= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:6881:: with SMTP id t1mr3592091uar.65.1561577860458; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 12:37:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Alejandro Imass Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:37:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Polytropon Cc: Allen Schaaf , FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 660D684BF1 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=vugGXvbZ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::929 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.928,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.07)[ip: (-9.83), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:37:43 -0000 On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 12:34 AM Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:54 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > [...] > Backup strategies benefit from this approach, too. And FreeBSD > is actually a great foundation to achieve this. > > Agreed for the server side, but FreeBSD may not be the right choice for desktop replacement of Windows. >From what I've read so far, most of the core systems and processes run on external systems and there is a lot of clerical work done in local workstations, so it sounds more like a direct Windows to Linux migration project where probably Canonical/Ubuntu would be a better fit than FreeBSD: https://ubuntu.com/desktop https://ubuntu.com/support https://canonical.com/services I think Canonical provides assessment and services (and/or partners) to help with the migration and for support. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 19:58:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AACA15D0A64 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:58:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: from alioth.uberspace.de (alioth.uberspace.de [185.26.156.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CC7785759 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:58:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: (qmail 3279 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2019 19:52:04 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by alioth.uberspace.de with SMTP; 26 Jun 2019 19:52:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:48:16 +0200 From: J To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: J Subject: Re: IPv6-only network--is NAT64+DNS64 really this easy now? Message-ID: <20190626194816.qi53z5q7l5immepn@deathbolt.927589452.space> References: <5e24739b-bbd0-d94a-5b0e-53fdeba81245@bluerosetech.com> <19784363-6543-ccc1-b13f-5f1a67dc10d1@bluerosetech.com> <20190625071943.vwswhj2lh6ctj4vy@deathbolt.927589452.space> <14695ff8-9796-4b4d-457e-e48818600745@bluerosetech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14695ff8-9796-4b4d-457e-e48818600745@bluerosetech.com> X-Info: Keep It Simple, Stupid. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD, kernel 12.0-RELEASE X-Message-Flag: WARNING!! Microsoft sucks User-Agent: Every email client sucks, this one just sucks less. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3CC7785759 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[cached]; IP_SCORE(-0.53)[ip: (-2.03), ipnet: 185.26.156.0/22(-0.33), asn: 58010(-0.26), country: DE(-0.01)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[927589452.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[45.156.26.185.bip.virusfree.cz : 127.0.0.2]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.47)[0.465,0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.29)[0.288,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:58010, ipnet:185.26.156.0/22, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:58:48 -0000 On 19-06-26 11:48:05, Mel Pilgrim wrote: > On 2019-06-25 0:19, mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de wrote: > > But i don't understand why you would use a NAT64, as one of the reasons > > to use IPv6 is not needing a NAT > > NAT64 is not the same thing as NAT44 or NAT66 (the kind of NAT to which > "IPv6 doesn't require NAT" refers). thanks for clarifying, didn't realize it From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 20:22:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B4B15D1412 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:22:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5638693F for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 319A418A1C5; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x5QKM6pi042411; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:22:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x5QKM6Ub042408; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:22:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:22:05 -0400 (EDT) From: doug@safeport.com X-X-Sender: doug@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: doug@fledge.watson.org To: Alejandro Imass cc: Polytropon , Allen Schaaf , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5B5638693F X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of doug@safeport.com does not designate 204.107.128.30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=doug@safeport.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[doug@fledge.watson.org]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.97)[0.966,0]; REPLYTO_DN_EQ_FROM_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[safeport.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.989,0]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[bucksport.safeport.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[30.128.107.204.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:204.107.128.0/24, country:US]; IP_SCORE(2.45)[ip: (6.53), ipnet: 204.107.128.0/24(3.26), asn: 11288(2.53), country: US(-0.06)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 20:22:14 -0000 On Wed, 26 Jun 2019, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 12:34 AM Polytropon wrote: > >> On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:54 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: >> > > [...] > > >> Backup strategies benefit from this approach, too. And FreeBSD >> is actually a great foundation to achieve this. >> >> > Agreed for the server side, but FreeBSD may not be the right choice for > desktop replacement of Windows. I'm only addressing this point. If your organization decides to use FreeBSD for servers, are you going to totally out source maintenance of those systems? If not I think you would be well served to use FreeBSD workstations because That group will have/develop the expertise to update/maintain the server farm. Using OS/X or Ubuntu would be, I think, a better choice than windows. Otherwise you will by necessity have to use windows 10. I find windows 10 is less responsive and at least with the Dell I have, running windows 10 maintenance is tricky. License costs as previously noted are an issue. You are almost surly going to engage a firm to implement the server setup and/or applications. Their advice on this will be much better. This is a pretty large effort you will need an in-house manager to handle project management and guide you in all the decisions/choices that will come up along the way. The only draw back I have hit in running FreeBSD workstations is wifi support and some video cards. The firm you engage should be knowledgeable in this. > From what I've read so far, most of the core systems and processes run on > external systems and there is a lot of clerical work done in local > workstations, so it sounds more like a direct Windows to Linux migration > project where probably Canonical/Ubuntu would be a better fit than FreeBSD: > > https://ubuntu.com/desktop > https://ubuntu.com/support > https://canonical.com/services > > I think Canonical provides assessment and services (and/or partners) to > help with the migration and for support. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 26 21:09:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A6D15D226A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:09:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com) Received: from n1nlsmtp03.shr.prod.ams1.secureserver.net (n1nlsmtp03.shr.prod.ams1.secureserver.net [188.121.43.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "relay-hosting.secureserver.net", Issuer "Starfield Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B4B688050 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com) Received: from n3plcpnl0154.prod.ams3.secureserver.net ([160.153.155.3]) by : HOSTING RELAY : with ESMTP id gEqjhq7sGJgrsgEqjhfBqT; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:49:01 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marketmediasales.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: Date:Subject:To:From:Reply-To:Sender:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LyE23kv8c8NdDFi1sWQaAdy9qrWQ0JmDzHVK7YYrvUU=; b=mAGZnd5h1mJfCJF/9UVljtsn9y QhBnKpx5rVtuWI3mFG++1NE1dZVYv/95BtvZo7UFL+8pamE80TxCL/SVZSfd4sLB4r0bjlFAqBHTp UZySk7/oSKDAHouOo6c4UdFWV3VwwnuQAfGpVjIDPmf/eZfbtPT+9tcJQna41zeKRvpMmMRasO3f8 SmNqjh8J2Nt4q/kzaD/8BGpadnRspn2XvxkrwqSaEWNmhOeooG/f5lWhzu3gQyQxkSoAxjiNNy29H KC0xY1235r8POBo19AftOThDa999J2sFKI1Q2WvWob2rPIGPhndQswubWXWd3OGhgtEC/TFY6ZHqO IKAYnauQ==; Received: from [159.100.24.170] (port=55159 helo=WS139) by n3plcpnl0154.prod.ams3.secureserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hgEqj-000VWR-4U for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:49:01 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Veronica Johnston" To: Subject: Autodesk Users List Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:18:32 +0530 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdUsYBGFT3BuTe2PTOG9CfjBi9ohSw== X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - n3plcpnl0154.prod.ams3.secureserver.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marketmediasales.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: n3plcpnl0154.prod.ams3.secureserver.net: authenticated_id: veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com X-Authenticated-Sender: n3plcpnl0154.prod.ams3.secureserver.net: veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFo2tlG+orgto/++LfeF+AyPsAt7bOMsGwdFyGxOL80ECE7uKk+wvVXBh3FrXvUXisH8QhERLN2HesJaAnA1kOGadaV0BJjEfpqBquMYUBQ1Y8Wvupjd lSNMMJpxn92EG8YguT2fyiBbPyE1r3y9/iwtUI1EXcKAY+nruMMmhQE34xsodoDl3Ttkx16RIK0wvEzvfBpto8VQ4sB1vN/KJb5yADta2NbBe9891Y4pi/sl HjvLOAX0zOSs8dB7MYkfPA== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7B4B688050 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none (invalid DKIM record) header.d=marketmediasales.com header.s=default header.b=mAGZnd5h X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.72 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[cached]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[marketmediasales.com:~]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; IP_SCORE(0.35)[ip: (1.12), ipnet: 188.121.40.0/22(0.49), asn: 26496(0.21), country: US(-0.06)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26496, ipnet:188.121.40.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.73)[0.733,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[marketmediasales.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.41)[0.407,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.83)[0.828,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[193.43.121.188.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[marketmediasales.com:s=default]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[veronica.johnston@marketmediasales.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:09:10 -0000 Hi, Hope you are doing well! I wanted to check if you'd be interested in purchasing 2019 updated "Autodesk Users List" for your sales and marketing initiatives? Some few users list you might be interested in: PTC, SolidWorks, ANSYS, Siemens & Dassault Systemes etc. Let me know if you are interested and I will get back to you with the Counts and Pricing for your review. Note: We would provide any industry, any job title of contact lists as per your requirements. Regards, Veronica Johnston Marketing Manager If not interested please reply with "Not Interested" In the Subject Line. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 06:15:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8164B15DBB77 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:15:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 988B270188 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:15:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([188.103.163.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mbzdn-1iHcus29xn-00dT1t; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:15:21 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:15:18 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Alejandro Imass Cc: Allen Schaaf , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:9g+6+1og8NpzOAqOuAk2Ub7lG/eU1uG0ZS+Nq4Qzqd72p2WyGHy u+FcixDhqcn1sy/zEaAMIlSYTp1J6Pb3Czqy2wX7oBT/tAEqgrAfEOOHTfYVZLyGM2Xj1E9 GlhdrXiJAWCgBAayPuv578IXuKpK0NgFwJk6Nhh2pLbpjXuhB8YuO9bO9l9YpfvqarQnrr9 fWjCGq7MZw7MPH4HEGaGw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:JpwueutnOCY=:aL/86H1CYOR2iME8cYqAkc lQDITUJX1Q5XO3cO8gRDqwuFXYlAY9ftiiHIDPdHR5HyZ6CuGpcYl0CiSnDhArB3pIt/nyfFC +fzNoQLRIs2R1M2ZnsE/nxUc7VojST9hUiXWaep0izMXkn/fp5bgmfzvZI1jJc6oE60jSzECy 4ql2OEhDFLBz0PaFd0X8Z+0VswXqsJcz5/7BOG9leS31maKxI+WNpnqOj5yCo1Ato03tMdMWj FPyxLpbNOQfj5hUn32YjQPTvCGDg1zK7Feu5LLSYEJ1X8k+AHutWbxFdkUuPPfDKSjT7rKb0m 3uVwnzD92ptSzVLar7ytrnk0v8j8Zze5O+bTIoS8vyebCqxR2W6Fl+csdGAx5Qzqk6/M88uI+ 7Y5pSnp8GEjuT0K4RhJkTUasdSi324B19nuL7LpUepsn5eY/ywSOt8NAcnOKE5AdtOuEkmFen mtO8l1CGGhLE71tzSbX1YTfAUZC6tPRuogTyV2X23ZkB3MiTdKipZKCbsvjTjodvkgu/wuSyD guPMr4J8IIOKdKmcfz4RD4EsvqbVSYmrcU8VDxSOXOF9n6bkUsIn2RgdDH7eFR9C9fuavZpDA si/Q2bDVn8e8iU4w6hWMoJdRthhQNbPHzliNjMawAgyf43H/Mc6uyw0HKd+WczpRj8FXqYBkz VDa+9nolRStj2C+BfRTli1CuV4zhcJxNekIVLeQ4e5OcpRhQA2Y04RCpZMIChx5lsrmtwG7RT sZrFcAKJ8Pwwapfxh8FJNFpnxgRqI52eYZL7VIXipLTaqEdyUKHRppvfzMk= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 988B270188 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.60 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx01.schlund.de,mx00.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[228.163.103.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.94)[0.938,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.74)[0.735,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.54)[ip: (1.63), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.41), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:15:44 -0000 On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:37:29 -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 12:34 AM Polytropon wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:54 -0700, Allen Schaaf wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > Backup strategies benefit from this approach, too. And FreeBSD > > is actually a great foundation to achieve this. > > > > > Agreed for the server side, but FreeBSD may not be the right choice for > desktop replacement of Windows. Depends. In the past, I have abolished many installations of "Windows" with Linux and FreeBSD, and both users and administrators were happy with it. Even the beancounters expressed their joy for a decrease in TCO. ;-) > From what I've read so far, most of the core systems and processes run on > external systems and there is a lot of clerical work done in local > workstations, so it sounds more like a direct Windows to Linux migration > project where probably Canonical/Ubuntu would be a better fit than FreeBSD: > > https://ubuntu.com/desktop > https://ubuntu.com/support > https://canonical.com/services > > I think Canonical provides assessment and services (and/or partners) to > help with the migration and for support. Yes, this is is important where you need to involve external support. Luckily, I hardly deal with such settings, so my experience there is is limited. For what _I_ do, support is usually internal to the organisation. The migration was, in most cases, much easier than you might imagine: Preparations included a replication of "look and feel", while leaving out the disadvantages and nonsense "Windows" forces upon its users. Some users even came from a technical background with Linux and Solaris experience and would immediately recognize everything. A few changes in naming, optimization (!) of processes - "work smart, not hard" instead of "he who sits the longest time in the office is the smartest employee and deserves a promotion" -, and finally a good integration with external services. So from the "what we do", nothing changed for the users, just the "how we do it" became much more comfortable for them. The administrators also were happy as they now had convenient tools for dealing with possible troubleshooting, but also the "mundane tasks" became a lot easier and could finally be automated to a reasonable point. I know, this is a very individual point of view and experience, but as you can see: It _is_ possible, and it starts with the right decision. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 07:10:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6727C15DC8C3 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:10:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic312-27.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic312-27.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D49C4714C8 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: b5Y4QeYVM1kTUxxombcMTS3FMbbSDkuN0_I.yYbux7sva2gIjkyxpPaI._b1x83 VBE2eptZbZRBIN_DFNFbpRv0Sj.aEELkLylobhcGO6.zpLCzsSH8i3d6OyefCsQFu0066gGelJC8 cekX.LJwr0SQ_c0TyUeshkOXwGEDbrqhjuXFqQU08H5hnGmRfe_VnqLkp7QHaVS.WL8RU0oLae_W PfuNW3rJNs3MMrBsqH_5Ij1kyqlmSDvDLCiY5W76Wu57e1qbIj6K_MamLNvxd_4BvjqO.XaLruGF sfai4Cwxd6NpiOg2I33LStuNUfV3MfbqJiE1H6JSq59XHYPKYqZmxcmBiHq9tntsijo5neYO.jIM 6.Aahg9OPBwHT5D1tEdJtD4Dk4OMEkBQtYzZIIFt0971Xo0MZYTDv0GL9q2uKpVzh2_wrUtNMUeP n3pG7SCyWlOm46R5SN3wlaGAh35413QvIs5xYN0l3ibQgTo1d_3Xa65IWMQ4p.6iICFYqJoSozBr Zvb7v5Sje_zgLhqtz_x7xmClW0bzCf3Zr.V59mnHGjlTmBznRgLnLyL2SxYjbPsHpjCzuGatx.q0 OSh3KbuxyCCcPaO78wLqKY2zPdDmx78kjbTSk5_T1GqsEy5EJ7EsJb.M8EleryjbS_k8.lU29WkF mPB3s.GWGlh5BH.EMnT06Gy0jBLB4KtO6AAEY.SCM2Ou_3r_2xIYw6Rf_UeiKksgP7zWK_psu0R. qpRtJFmVi6i2xkpIVVNv789CaMi2zAgU6DxAVXs6QzdihHgFJjjTFh5_fbtDaPGOafg6P1Jmv1uS m2EhPoZTOoueV.iQGmhLPgeBkkFDnbNw.tenNPyxzVGvb4_.0qZi0QDAOIRtLIFKgFOuvlQaVpwC JDk3kI0ETQyb2y7SzXwhZglfoW8xVtEwodavbj7RJ2NeAUZcNtb5VYpRN01L2hILb1zxvGz6vNzu sOQCoOJ45bONUXj2o1BuCm4SjUakqWNXdk2Vp6gxgPyNHjPoOMtGG_2ylqwXH9QFbspoCq7aN91G zDuU_CIx.RqXC_abO1Wb.g4YjuFmBnOWceShwpC2yBfJ1K3Mbu0BTcGtQyUH5TZPhrEq66fz1t1. rn79un8AH1aSZ5glqhCx_7R7eUkyA.t4vK.zVEPI8rAs_pOjnLqe9QstQcKaFaMHexctO5fvTvmv DF3ntYwVZgyZ48zi0ugNIZMZ2Q48vywoDFXZFkvUpoI.gy9IqlX3Zy6SuwJaxqVAmGba67p7owDq j Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic312.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:10:14 +0000 Received: from x2f44acb.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([2.244.74.203]) by smtp427.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 052c0151aa826825c899c8fceb272b9c; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:10:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:10:12 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D49C4714C8 X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.25 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[203.74.244.2.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.20)[-0.203,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.26)[0.259,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(1.27)[ip: (2.15), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.40), asn: 34010(1.88), country: GB(-0.09)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.42)[0.420,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:10:23 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:15:18 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >I know, this is a very individual point of view and experience, but >as you can see: It _is_ possible, and it starts with the right >decision. :-) Hi, it makes a big difference, if somebody needs to ask for recommendations or not. It makes a difference, if somebody is assuming "probably Canonical/Ubuntu would be a better fit than FreeBSD" or knows if it does or does not. Something to consider regarding Ubuntu support: "Universe The universe component is a snapshot of the free, open-source, and Linux world. It houses almost every piece of open-source software, all built from a range of public sources. Canonical does not provide a guarantee of regular security updates for software in the universe component, but will provide these where they are made available by the community. Users should understand the risk inherent in using these packages. Popular or well supported pieces of software will move from universe into main if they are backed by maintainers willing to meet the standards set by the Ubuntu team." - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories#Universe This is not an issue that affects just one application provided by Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm/+bug/1782984 It's an issue that affects all distros and tons of applications. FWIW Ubuntu 16.04 LTS isn't affect, but this old LTS still provides packages that are security risks, at least libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 comes to my mind. I know what I'm talking about: [root@archlinux moonstudio]# lsb_release -a LSB Version: 1.4 Distributor ID: Arch Description: Arch Linux Release: rolling Codename: n/a [root@archlinux moonstudio]# systemd-nspawn -q lsb_release -a LSB Version: core-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-amd64:core-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-noarch:security-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-amd64:security-9.20160110ubuntu0.2-noarch Distributor ID: Ubuntu Description: Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS Release: 16.04 Codename: xenial There's no paper shop without magazines promoting Linux container approaches as the ultimate solution for everything. Take, for example, Ubuntu's snap thingy. Due to the container approach some software might be unable to provide full functionality, since access to software outside the container could be tricky, even impossible. I'm absolutely pro Linux, FreeBSD and anything FLOSS for desktop computers, but to get work done, I'm using a proprietary product named after a fruit, too and I at least need to run wine-staging on Linux, too. Wine isn't without pitfalls. Assuming a company gets work done on proprietary operating systems, then ensure that migrating to FreeBSD or a Linux distro does provide what is needed and that the software worked in the past, at the moment and doesn't have dependencies against phase-out model libraries. Choosing a Linux distro is not easy to do and depends much on the target. Regards, Ralf From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 07:44:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F1315DD512 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mustafakuscu@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x543.google.com (mail-ed1-x543.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::543]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5DDF7278C for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mustafakuscu@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x543.google.com with SMTP id s49so6158791edb.1 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:44:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0FE6K76ABM69o3Lx5d3AXtYK5ZV1dj8yDWjr/CC/494=; b=VANjd8n3qi2irN+EMl9n9oFdFh2K7CBwT/7o+VefdpN+Z6fA1KgieYCJBlnCH2duNR Ze22lcpLJpjbVps8znoCbW/n676pRyMtJrU+PDF4cYOXsKr9bT0XMqXVJG3GLM5ro20D PHSjbW7K3vzHPm3qeKfhg+tXeeFMq+R5wfJHgQBi3G2/bmGF4ggUN+dqxIWCxnDKpMVL db0vqx4ByZ9cO6ZQtNfeWInt3Ov/BKCfV2NxO3NG4993qlUsdAUL4kdbV3bBetyjvzCa +ELb2DWzI+HwOqhu/0gMOWmOurzN37W4MJD3b4NdBOH5WffwVCyQbWb1QzRVMYrYcdyu T66Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0FE6K76ABM69o3Lx5d3AXtYK5ZV1dj8yDWjr/CC/494=; b=JNvNkwEDWrExCJOaNw7VASH6exD8XZ45ZeguFdBQJr8jBGLslIkopM/PkS/xBtkpG4 aPCKxdhNq6AuIdpC7qFmF21taKmolKxKdO61IwKoXisq0WJdEbZlPyez1j69vxi3B5HB n987qgfnZ1zLus5FdG384htM4PF2MscE2NI/xL0R472EvdciCAdo2ARvUVmrUWMRG7sF h9XzdYZP7rkG4ZXgyVJJB80bzPXuZPVQ+Zj/o6yK402UW6tBWks22ZkYnhHG08hMg90Q 2xOgdNUZbp8jgaZM+YZyOVo5c83ZSZ4WDfC2k8nCVVFGSsTMIP0TGv5f6j1goiP9852B e7DQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXkcnGmKGyTnDHmRKSdBji5HPWYWlA0PctFYavxcGkMFp/tluGV k3btPoTDZzPT/UVDwdMEAkic9OVvChMAS86lc6678WnQDZc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyIYlFyBxzVL00tMAKwvamYCLSsvT2DWFDCKjZCtk8loEgu7uJqOE6TDDI/5oXrWpthUtxsjy5npJKRW4MWpKA= X-Received: by 2002:a50:a4ef:: with SMTP id x44mr2386069edb.304.1561621488657; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:44:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> From: Mustafa Kuscu Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:44:36 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Polytropon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E5DDF7278C X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=VANjd8n3; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mustafakuscu@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::543 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mustafakuscu@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.97 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.940,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.02)[ip: (-0.09), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.60), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:51 -0000 Hi, There is a trend to migrate towards FOSS systems in the public sector of Turkey. An interesting example is the Turkish IRS, who released its own distribution called GIBUX. Also, municipal organizations are taking the path from Windows 7 to Linux (a Debian based distribution called Pardus). Public schools with interactive boards in classes are replacing Windows 7 with a Pardus distro for boards. It is very appealing to convert a financial institution to a Linux/BSD environment, however, there might be some regulatory issues depending on the legislation such as COBIT, ITIL, etc which enforce IT governance and security, central management, etc. In order to complement linux/bsd with such enterprise features (not financial industry specific), I know they had to develop replacement tools for Active Directory and SCCM/Group Policy tools so that an LDAP based management infrastructure can be built. It is already available as an open source project called LiderAhenk. But at some point, all your systems and their dependencies ought to be supported in some sense to reach a proper acceptable risk level imposed by those standards. Personally, the hardest part in converting a bank to linux/bsd would be the bank branch. The reason is the variety of specialized equipment (scanners, printers, wating queue displays, security and digital signature devices) all need connectivity, vendor support and sometimes specialized drivers that only work on Windows. To overcome that, GIBUX approach may be good as they have similar environment in their branches. This guy shares their experiences on migration with quite a bit of detail: https://www.pendik.bel.tr/sayfa/detay/bilgi-islem-mudurlugu%7Cpardus-ve-acik-kaynak-kod-donusum-projesi You can google-translate it. Probably there are many other similar approaches. I wanted to materialize a few, and would be happy to see more discussed. Kind Regards, Mustafa From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 08:37:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099CE15DE41A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:37:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D717C73C88 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:37:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: VOMaKdAVM1ndHKcgOoMt2TBx6T1MIjtjAoxr_clDGlh6kWLXs2sqxee.Xpii4iQ uOkduYx9SfyBphzV4x08y4tAQeMrCKGNfvJOKfhOSrT16da4.YoozSnz4HW6YEd6_kp3iwMsTFql nkz2Z9QzdtYid9IwLmod9TeMFwwrNqCcmBAkQFxMZf6mFU3jHKr88ctDT_JM_BL_085YBzxhlHIP Aw8_qCER524EOPQOV_70T1gPH48O0M5L1cHfIkXiAKfvLq81bAh1PeAIQLTWvL3Xm8rehHRhAX6m FEkg8n4u_BEmyXABanjX_ViUflNTQONvdRUqaLC_VaeUPVael2q9ILW4lVKkC1Vizz.N2OB_Ylma _fKsqEWhdhvhyo2GiruWwmgXZZ7m.s.usLPC_.1jglXXs4yb0EG9p.vzkrl0LncokgE8T64Y6XAk f4aBJonAauDtSo_c_ws790LBJrDXOPcfXHWthdjPihRchaRG5SU0oHPCBvnbsbZD5XHuTXpX3JVR ucrp9lRps_mYcpiX1v9uyAOMLMtTAXsiXb5kIj2qtaatmRZvBgCIU0aQ0ykBC3fx0hg.gLcyb0Yi Y764QVy4kbPAgb.nIX.7B.eaaquAepGtoI0JHDUF7Sj2cmZ41Vy5ubM0VLJObkvmhNCVBGzhIO0Z N3vYiflMFuW1SiWqtQax9qVkeCmfLa1SIfOaF2rVwl8jljRc59QXtK4hDS_GOjWekv9wffUelVW4 f9_Tn5rd5MGYoyePEP20WRxfTaarMU32jln1qMw9yiP5l13oSQ28zbgfQBccg47xrbTr1.oGj27r 3tln9s.JQW8WnK0ifudsPrYQAJHw95NtvZyXBM_5hjpFIVRJvrPnRAvVFlCDAqOFr5.w3mP0dVPV Zpc8qdXEsxi0QLKK4BiSC2Qxs_1gS0PeONt39aKuDYpIiSaKHOLwHjGpgyoVxjkueIYZRFAGF0.n 3lAuSI4pQf1uKjcppPxQniuDcgRl38CpYltvkXT6z6dpVbPbDH9BFFDnSUomnvSZ9dvF_I8310ol n7R982x_5kSnF3kfLy0fcvWfw2F1NpvWqDvp8W_IiErUZBWbj3ikaWI32SSMbbLybkNyW4G9Y4XK NKp9._SeodUO.jMhFjr0B7gMFXPnehR6WRcA8zt92ioMMFiZExGl8aqTogRA3CEApGknVfDRjg9i yiEnc6B.rKjm7cReUx3a6.Ko4ddWS0GjI8sAI0HclgSwPo6lcG1IwSVKVsR0dWbnGWw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:37:01 +0000 Received: by smtp401.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 57e5ef85c0d099502c2ec72204726f1c; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:37:01 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D717C73C88 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(2.23)[ip: (6.93), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.40), asn: 34010(1.88), country: GB(-0.09)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.913,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.47)[0.467,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.89)[0.889,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[146.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:37:12 -0000 Hi, I don't want to discourage anybody to migrate to FLOSS operating systems, but before doing so, it's worth the effort to take everything into account. A few years ago some big German cities migrated from a proprietary operating system to Linux and not that much later back to the proprietary operating system. Just take a look at the homepage of the German fiscal authority: An important note mentions, that an option is only available for a proprietary operating system. "Wichtiger Hinweis: Zur Zeit ist der FormsForWeb Filler nur f=C3=BCr Windows verf=C3=BCgbar." Keep in mind that some software is not available at all for FLOSS operating systems and if a replacement should be available, it's often not that compatible as claimed. If you send a file to a printing house, you need to generate a file that is 100% compatible to the common used standard, a 99% compatible file could cause a lot of trouble. Apart from that, users should understand a distro's policy, that's why I posted the explanation for Ubuntu's "universe" repository, but there's way more to consider. In my experiences the first mistake usually is already done after downlaoding an installation media. Not many users check it against a signed checksum. I provided a script on some Ubuntu flavour mailing lists [1]. However, even this script can't provide a web of trust. Assuming FLOSS software was already successfully used on a proprietary operating system and assuming the same software is available for a FLOSS operating system, too and known to work without issues on that FLOSS operating system, you still can't be sure that it will work without issues out of the box with all hardware. Regards, Ralf [1] [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat luamd64_1610.sh=20 #!/bin/bash #luamd64_1610.sh 2016-10-27 rocketmouse flavour=3Dubuntu-mate release=3D16.10 hms=3D$(date "+%Y%m%d-%H%M%S") use() { cat<&1 | grep OK \033[0m\n\n" read -n1 -p"Press a key to finish " printf "\n\n" sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS 2>&1 | grep OK status=3D$? if [ $status -ne 0 ]; then echo "$flavour-$iso-amd64.iso: Validation failed" fi echo exit $status From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 09:03:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F027715DEF67 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8E9B74F75 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:03:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([188.103.163.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MJEpp-1i17h94BcB-00KhlD; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:41 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pKFX8GiOx6HVYpycYDAQQMiEnpNlbBuSGErsTLRwHP/BfLlAM7D UgkmF40Cc09iN09xAUpi0n2YLYDt5Il2V2OjNOGIN0ZbUv6B9FxTHEEZNfEaZg6fz9b0Cnh 5EDzRiWmQJ4FN5U6SFw7eaopZuoxcv21vVYrptP3VFJFll42sWD2JaaEY3L2dvTzUPcMEQq anRcA0FvYS4IfSbvLbbhw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:JDQH7H6ZAgU=:NPICZ17WZCLdiyz4yLoyQD obOkB7KITyY/pQMtAVli/mdb/hQc83CMoVXCQo7kAR6ii1C7a2g67r5sg8PN95LPWN/mrPrQH 1KcvN9ORdz/ZSgaoEmdxFIKN/e/b3shd3PEeBod2FHqHPmUwg1vul3yCJGD2tDP0JPcKVJ9/c AmniK836B8jz72ITfr0JkLGHhZvZ12d/R4UxAfCaH/qq5v/AbXJZ4ZexM/kBlOaPgzyaCKxyR UXZQKbxxzUeK+mJYlcrEwh1PdoR/Ehy4+0nzB6AgnKZjxwCVwTax2EFmZSy8LJqXoOnjCPqnl l0kI8hsRVIYFS7sWDwzxiIYI5rThUqgDLQnTcH4Ab+Y3vPQVQKjxAfkI0suedoQjIGTbJ7v9C UyPixTWMf/P8ZjCZlno1bXmUYetG5zIM1Oe7hD9BNufBmkAwp8h1j5qdbHV66ghhvojEx1f1m Q9UJwrMuIE+NEajPZj9yVxLTu6eYlJx5Csk3TAYlw5TRI/rvtS2GfouhofZT5I4fHZiBuNh6o yfUJ2Cb9YLZ2D0hIrNr2nHXh3osmkO9zVmLb+tBQWYM144PikhL7esRQAe5NnzEUM8IVkG8rP Z+2wxzks+mufJMSQ5/0FL4PDNCAsy7TDYcyr2H03J80R9HJQ6Y6swvOKntJlqxdYiHx5gM+Ym RQVnWgiqnMkSL58UACuDbJ+y/oFS5556lPSSb0ZfJdPoMyQOEpeEb6EFKRu2aHtdZy0Jep/Wb GQHFJ3MrFo6D8oxk3hxnj3L4fg8GIKwTkrRJLespocpYS/kA53maEA6KDqo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C8E9B74F75 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[228.163.103.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.855,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.297,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.52)[0.524,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-0.04)[ip: (-1.27), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:03:55 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:37:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrot= e: > A few years ago some big German cities migrated from a > proprietary operating system to Linux and not that much later back to > the proprietary operating system. Consider the actual reasons for this back-migration, and also consider the results (even worse increasing costs than before the initial migration). > Just take a look at the homepage of the German fiscal authority: > An important note mentions, that an option is only available for a > proprietary operating system. "Wichtiger Hinweis: Zur Zeit ist der > FormsForWeb Filler nur f=FCr Windows verf=FCgbar." This also applies to ElsterAuthenticator, where a Linux version is available, but buggy, written in poor Java. Other tools like sv.net comfort are only available for the most recent version of "Windows". Free access does not exist. > Keep in mind that some software is not available at all for FLOSS > operating systems and if a replacement should be available, it's often > not that compatible as claimed. This is especially true when you need software for a special purpose. Maybe I would call them "niche software", but it is actually in heavy use, like accounting, payroll, time-work management, or ticketing systems. Those are not web-based, but require the use of "Windows" (and: no, you cannot use older versions). Trying to run those with wine is often very complicated, as it ties very heavily into the bowels of "Windows" and cannot run with the (limited) support of wine. Sure, you can use a VM with "Windows" on an otherwise Linux or FreeBSD system, but that doesn't really solve the problem. > If you send a file to a printing house, > you need to generate a file that is 100% compatible to the common used > standard, a 99% compatible file could cause a lot of trouble. That's why Postscript exists. :-) > In my experiences the first mistake usually is already done after > downlaoding an installation media. Not many users check it against a > signed checksum. I provided a script on some Ubuntu flavour mailing > lists [1]. However, even this script can't provide a web of trust. The same applies to updates to expensive and "secure" software, as presented on a CCC a few years ago. FTP. The pure horror. Checksum test disabled, no further disagreement. ;-) --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 09:47:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854D6159DC8D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic305-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic305-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07BA976138 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: gYAlwgUVM1nWZi3K03s7YuDHTOPL9mrDC.GA4Eb92TMw56OclANbtde4EXXVfcC _HSKN2Y_PwDUHy8aS6UD18VYe8vmJO_4X613COegCKgTxN.Bp_f95Xv6v8LoYPAGOVU3myQr7uuS XisWkaFNVBzR57KIBRGV0M_Lxw6En7pRSxtxr_hdj1S0vCU87WkeW9U3E8IO.4iWf_.Y4XBvwpt3 Y7CzAsrzoBVvMGWnrXAnMID.jqYXboN2zY09MikHa8CaC6RYh3.2Y9ib8qqFHihm.EiOnUlpqgxW ti8KA2yaW23bwBMXjmAhq4rzUVRb.bh.dgeUG2wy7Oxqc0o7oPyyz2cvArUxEtffOiSevnlsBjgT CNr9_M373ydFSSbOInuvuQZwrmxqECMZTAhruW2s2xfvmQjaK0VA1QSmP34Hejx8pNK52kgeMy06 pVWNmVQzFySOpwcmh4eMjZZgeWZIIgxd2qOFENwRb2W23eTSePmMTT85GnfqJP6MB2UVZCy85_to cTSEjSKqRmM29YpPyJVi7WrPDQt3NebGqA8YT6vH5owvpcT67Snp7qOTijKQjUA17RlB5Bcc4gEi fkZiy62eoeeqdkqui1_lQ5JN4FLt.GzR5MGtFMzIJxGG_UJnXWArjSVYKTsr3WO.nWkJmbQHMqRC l043faLgR4W_U2gUvujG3rd2tEkWbK9Zv8pTEuijE3z8tLvmJiOIZfnnhQPNYo8DG94BAAXQQAx3 SgqHvdmSzoo3A3uKk66cT0KCA9jREt2tBOSHS8VDTogW6IMA5sn_SASe_TONo.5cpF9NGKTzD0Pb jnjG1EjRVzrcUwjyngJ6Z3GM2PhcZtDH1JkXyy5S6.0I8MaUY35f4BBQRMRu4bFiTuDJZkzOJdkT gqfx.tR6DmmMB.MBMbtNyUioLeHLVyhcI_QoC4qoQ.m5QwzIVli31BA281IF7lODyavJIC6JYvr4 K_5F7KNltOZ.3ukrBupDfBG0.Tf0aj2Uk1_44UAgKOf5VUoOZ.AWEd4Nr39TKhZmVEKCaJu7yree i5gMXd2lG9UV.6lYHQSDi8eANmH6PZWBZMEBZptjPneYx42YY_xHWD7wMihF9P4pRPjuSUcNXaHb 547nIjsQBnZgesEN6JzC6ZxyQnEeEqWDnmfl1HUKrNAYSJjiQiRxvDN241H5IyQyzUS_rLoOD5kb KExfVLkpTyKq5Qonrl0JhcWM8GJQDiUda9LNFj4.cUv0BFtHI3M.gwL_eAEjR7G8Shj5GQFDkPKK 3MFzv Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:08 +0000 Received: from x2f44acb.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([2.244.74.203]) by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b8908042200ac54da5ef7102e283a9ab; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:47:06 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627114706.249409ce@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 07BA976138 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.84 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[203.74.244.2.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.79)[0.794,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(2.19)[ip: (6.78), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.40), asn: 34010(1.88), country: GB(-0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.43)[0.425,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.93)[0.928,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[81.177.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:47:17 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >Sure, you can use a VM with "Windows" on an otherwise Linux or FreeBSD >system, but that doesn't really solve the problem. For me this approach at least does solve one problem. If the guest Windows starts misbehaving or a drive stops working, its easy to restore from the last working snapshot or backup. I once tried to restore a Windows 98 or XP install on bare metal, after a HDD gets broken, but it didn't work already without all that EFI stuff that might cause issues today. IIRC that time the problem was, that the new HDD wasn't the same model as the old one . If a hardware driver only available for Windows should be required, we are lost with either a VM or wine. For the ID card readers that could be ordered for free a few years ago in Germany, a Linux driver was available. That time I couldn't get an ID card reader working. I don't know if it would work today. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 10:37:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B761815B441A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:37:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5E2A77DEF for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:37:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1561631851; x=1564223851; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=+DJdmHd8hlneQNT52EiW9PONj7dv8KwShcnnwVoLOHs=; b=K4sGbp7BQlvPuCSqD6grfFPpS9R2VlwyRkT3gn4YkvYSTGdcDuXzPr/oef4yVDigYAL/c9bN8hDLAM9AsgBhgINUT4ZhvWK6AQx1m4qgmlMi9Jc/tMj/9ETOqlJq7nRKCgpvUPEge5n9qNiOBh8Me0vbll51BYHWfzgpgo053ZM= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDBjNmY0OGQuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.h.in.socketlabs.com (r3.h.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.180.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:37:14 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:37:13 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hgRmC-0004QZ-5Z; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C5E2A77DEF X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=K4sGbp7B; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.83 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mxbh.socketlabs.com,mxbsg.socketlabs.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[ip: (-0.56), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.25), asn: 7381(-0.19), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.607,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:37:32 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > This is especially true when you need software for a special > purpose. Maybe I would call them "niche software", but it is > actually in heavy use, like accounting, payroll, time-work > management, or ticketing systems. Many many years ago the approach to choosing a computer system went like this: 1: Establish your requirements 2: Find or commission software that best supports your requirements 3: Select a platform that runs the software you selected 4: Iterate round 2 and 3 to optimise cost/benefit These days the common approach seems to be: 1: Select platform by default 2: Accept software on offer 3: Adjust requirements and procedures to suit software 4: Bitch when you find yourself locked in -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 10:41:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94F215B482A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:41:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melisha@digitalmarketingline.com) Received: from mail-pf1-x443.google.com (mail-pf1-x443.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::443]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E64E80122 for ; 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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 52669349336 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:41:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Melisha Roy From: Melisha Roy Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:41:09 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: w1GaYajDyTO4lTFlfMjoQFQnXzc Message-ID: Subject: Re: Secure Freebsd.org from google penguin 4.0 To: Freebsd-Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2E64E80122 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=digitalmarketingline-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=mHlVK88l; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of melisha@digitalmarketingline.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::443 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melisha@digitalmarketingline.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[digitalmarketingline-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; URL_IN_SUBJECT(0.40)[freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; 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"The CAN-SPAM Act of 2003". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------- [image: beacon] From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 06:21:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE4715DBF21 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:21:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1E0E7061A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:21:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([188.103.163.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N4hj5-1ifkIr1sCl-011m3K; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:20:54 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:20:52 +0200 From: Polytropon To: doug@fledge.watson.org Cc: doug@safeport.com, Alejandro Imass , Allen Schaaf , Polytropon , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627082052.619cac1b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:omaQoLTPifSEkfAnvFsFZNC9oc9WniexphDfz3RQ44i+hHw0T6/ 4p95fH1qbv62S1mP9LvQA2Ou4OM7sDx+8WtLtI8cadMXjg+oIJudBDALTWbFVgvgBBjAkgo f8V+SGBx0nRmshCEvjsSdArHtQQpd8aNZajmLHsbysTsRLBmctA1ggMJjPZUVZhqQ+CYy0F u8rXg88UlFjUooDlGiibQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4WqJHFM5ZQc=:3ECY1M32bsNewpgrdi+EtB YLHvSJOnQe1rGQo0NBCeoz7hD6K2u3o2+A+cay8ELgJnuvqVbiCWPK9iImYo8bA5tZZ4RZSJc uqmQluMgDmdM7mVWUMQEXTmI/83uWAIoKZ++0LLQkmF6jarTlq4rVOQmAEHTdKf7rtBIUi0yz v0+ZNGjQm8gEJ6Am89sQb9ULq/ky5BdIJfcY3dBcAvgOUX2WqdOQyY4cSa0VEccDCNhjeFksa x0nGyLbKubivecV3/Xgbq93yF9zuk9dSEPEHwlZ7i3K88YyDOHaVRkUb3IFE2PKO2icb9H3MF q48N9SL2y7H/lf+uKHFqo8kbvRFuVo0PKzM/Raxd6mewm/SVQM8oPhAKbuDaZYVXoPoqwu+3P t7fmjzHApUXPQtfm5F83IyBQ8O2dPJ0Vb9MYCRN9TSILY/vKyQZ53trOPkkQXh8ho1jLBDNFh CzcbQoDVVwGTPGccj4oWzmrYFq3ApUhKOliVpOaH4tWnAZ9cvL4k+BSwBA8qTleFMFl9lgxgI DuC7GKMh08CRXSG/L6RnTvexwETEB6OUT/C++yFhR8iVj8XAQwQckWEJlKQjSZpDYJuxQ46ue BMYfTTHU/+V1Jxeq2FJcK0dPMcYA7i9rxfBVZslk+W5IMNdCr9nw+6KuwHOCUcBTm9ZWdSX2D EG86ZF+QAkcmWIbSOEoRGq7Pen+tVEavYqTGa67gpHu8x037RWqz9vJ9shvRAoms9Rd+Zwpns tVT4wBfwWrkTBSgKq1aSJFx4+6Y3j/0BflXtxWOcP3NPlAX58gJntZ+RIDg= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B1E0E7061A X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.54 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[228.163.103.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.963,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.66)[0.657,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.53)[ip: (1.60), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.40), asn: 8560(2.47), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:59:55 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 06:21:11 -0000 On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:22:05 -0400 (EDT), doug@safeport.com wrote: > The only draw back I have hit in running FreeBSD workstations is wifi support > and some video cards. The firm you engage should be knowledgeable in this. Here is something I'd like to add: USB security tokens. Certain models require specific drivers only available for "Windows 10" (see problems discussed before) and a buggy equivalent for Linux. No macOS support. In case you should require those, experimenting with wine (or a VM with a "single-purpose" installation of "Windows") might be worth looking at. >From my experience, WiFi was never a problem because workstations were all networked with cable, and video cards, well, the brand and model that supported the BrookTree interface provided by FreeBSD was chosen for purchase. Problems solved. ;-) Yes, of course I know that you cannot always buy something new, and instead have to deal with "we must use what we have" problems. That's why proper testing is needed _before_ the transition starts. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 11:51:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4509C15BC6D9 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:51:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07D478285C for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:51:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id l10so1385609ybj.5 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:51:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=6vvkg2X222cjCuuB6iWbysONA6OFlbZ4peEbU8b1oVA=; b=AdykxjiTVJcEXyvikKknOzSyDfSXgYhnExh2LsGF8InPexg1MMCg+zbweIEBk5LzKS SQ1lYpnenvFcW8MwSxF6BIFsN09A9P8MqNuVvHtnlGLevXSya+x6/nC4FKsf3Wt8Bfmg uibcKBSUwhDCfOOXs72xp2QP3DBZyCh6hBgbw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=6vvkg2X222cjCuuB6iWbysONA6OFlbZ4peEbU8b1oVA=; b=WxzNvR610Ev8tL9cp3+VwC8eLjNXvR4Q02BJilmwC76FE7/OHt15PM5MKnVgLaE8PI KbwtPWNszYBSJDP8h/T5W/E7CCv1IVwZzmWetokIhJ4+iFeH3jmQmvnZikgKdClCWIsp EmCHov7uBZWs/j1oSFwVf6e9ATRKgRQ9KIVnwJSfGPbSikHdT4q483iRHeoby7hqwgIn qMYAVcgj5puuRCQ1x/AeFvAXQHZRUSbZch3CCxXXmS+WDA9n9S9jDQuj+BWYeneHOW96 qewqwK7HJ1+vV21Loty6ICoblrZpIkF95OKvoyteQ4gnLGx6ltpbFO6QlmZX02imZtDb Nt4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUwd2MoaLb3lOT9RKYSUS6KgdopY6fGR3ZxjhOPxmFXIp85iqRE m/FX1xKDXDWc3DOtA8K8lU9kHwsqS5g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyif+6tfXBcp/fiW7l4JBG7QB4v23wBDIpOWLvVdYn45Rm6SZEhJV46EwA4PNUhf6zfatv+hA== X-Received: by 2002:a25:7650:: with SMTP id r77mr2317642ybc.226.1561636265762; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l22sm453580ywl.68.2019.06.27.04.51.04 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ZJBb566Yz3CgL for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:50:49 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627075049.000039f4@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20190627082052.619cac1b.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627082052.619cac1b.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/K46xuhtupzeY0AWpW4MxE0q"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 07D478285C X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=AdykxjiT; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.55 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.02)[ip: (-9.55), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.b.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:51:08 -0000 --Sig_/K46xuhtupzeY0AWpW4MxE0q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:20:52 +0200, Polytropon stated: >Yes, of course I know that you cannot always buy something new, and >instead have to deal with "we must use what we have" problems. That's >why proper testing is needed _before_ the transition starts. I have always found the limitation on the usability of devices to be one of the odorous problems with all too many non-windows operating systems. It is the antithesis of the often stated Windows "locked in" business plan. I have labeled it the "locked out" game plan. In my opinion, the user should make a detailed list of what their goals and budget are, then move forward with securing the needed items sans any back door hacks, etcetera. I am a firm believer in the 'KISS' principal. That, plus the fact that I never let an OS dictate to me what peripheral devices I can use. It is my firm belief that by utilizing inferior or less robust peripheral devices or software, it is enabling developers or software designers not to create more robust devices with the proper drivers or write more powerful and useful programing. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/K46xuhtupzeY0AWpW4MxE0q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl0UrZwACgkQOHMGOIfe xWRTCQf8CxMcHyFR+9536+kCze/Fp9ouqNIVtP9MCZiR29sF5r0FUN0x+p7N0DoL +ToA2kO/JdBOYT50DpYK5rfHcgV7/IMsrZ2CBnGRXDZkIMDJljYJoPRVGkIddNi+ Fst/2QYdUm9P40NglnyfrpQLCdMgjkK7IGDH2WDkC06wUnkYSNgeU7LKtsrqLasE xyc/cPHsN+pa/AzQtnzU/3GnyHjm4YEcWbF0KwOGCktlOML1vfLwUGZy4aruvVhb Im5S2rIcyKBpKH1j7YR/DgFv/tfwMQsKVvmx3SHwpf5iQqkDBlt2rsdDWbiSVj6n JoEdDum8zO2VQ9T0RvkGSlu4tZ41sQ== =+l82 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/K46xuhtupzeY0AWpW4MxE0q-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 11:52:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD6715BC842 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:52:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic306-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic306-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4448829D6 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:52:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: UZZl2vUVM1kK9o07u1JgNzLvC01gJx1SzCI4Uomwnc73CuZnIuM1MKDX6H6Aqtt fPnxtFBdhrEAa2c_FyzZYi5wqDhxLXxNvwVpBbEgLqaDnuM9LF7P0CibKJMTCvT1CTere_Ez9cLw xVXuU_oPGbdT953GOroYQW6CXDTjSYo2Fs8GTeqRuzmpLk7JVu6YYnMC3WU3qQBcL4H1v7m36uu1 JvFGwf4HtoB_jmU69DOsguKjQnlFvSL7XofH6NPt_9urHjoekwrOzHXn03w2sQzEtaAKWTajEnPL yqiqTg6suU50bYybmXXhfmjx4fGXpNogyFu4A81YPlbeduWoZde2LlcfLcm_23J_.9fPb.qYSz6L Hix5GeeUFcHVCpGKZcA_s2OI8XghXRTXW0VXMpqfNKPlZ6SUijXbmxcRF57dzJM_Mm9tmi7UHmh6 f3r9aXB20Dd_eQZGM81qQ4y.QVK.yTCO6P1Ixl9OIvyFkNNYVFay6iy6jkCYWg5KqyiwBCw5dmL. 99Oqq5HpYIux0pyMhRemGN.cOy5W.F4vJmGbengsyYDEct7fJ_RUXnzIZddj9qEtGmE6KyvWXFqU APrhC_QnPRYFiFB5fCqoe.uiKKyuXNeeFvsBiA5CHPdglKnNDm77nkHPdHcoyw9MuH_qXut78Lx0 62PyAmLyDiQbold3AiJUIatggPTWcSnP_1HJYUh7nd2JNLkGPoa5fV1PyOUub70YOn_ky2.zer6r i7tQjpZzb36T4z8uPGlHV1TpiBYDtK3KREUCTqSXeUOgI.hG.DYOKpIBOrcfS8UVEN5VKY7yXYOi w_Y9EEgTHXb5En3grxiEG5GUfXGn48pzfM7axdzu8Sbd8gtJRP.CCPLVoWOBoi.B6RyeNqy31CQA XS0uJkKJ1xMQ_cle5.wYMYfybVYpbra73OtX0Cz8yx3MmxAYLYJrDY8YFYrXll.jIgZd1rKbp5rE nvKxJv6bvZSON4GgUwvAkzG6bRxAR21m_it4NyAVfvlkhHuovT_j.Wc.6UEuP2fq7IJ4i6PVEaYs b6qyM8.2wULBsL3wI_zUM892_NU1pFBRhOg8.Whi5WQ3rWieWw0.o4Rkw_i5v29hOsgkOjlpeAhL 5wwiYGDwxZ0nfUsFBYLIF92l8fSjRcCD4C_GDfMTG6wKMlFgiUYY5b9p5DGcCXpSlWT4dsi3hv5p iODn.Of.1h1kmc2_sqtXJwqJN0WOa.QbSmaUsWsuyPcxzDGy8.IPgP5K8Gan0q1axPkleK.b93TI - Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:52:07 +0000 Received: from x2f44acb.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([2.244.74.203]) by smtp416.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 11cb134ae5a9c79d7c227c612a0f224a for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:52:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:52:04 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627135204.1e66e598@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B4448829D6 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.36 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[203.74.244.2.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.963,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.71)[0.707,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(2.40)[ip: (7.79), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.40), asn: 34010(1.88), country: GB(-0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.80)[0.798,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[205.176.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:52:17 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >1: Select platform by default >2: Accept software on offer >3: Adjust requirements and procedures to suit software >4: Bitch when you find yourself locked in In an off-list reply I described it from Jane Bloggs' point of view. For Jane Bloggs it's easier to to go with the flow. From her point of view almost everything works OOTB, it at least works in an expected way. Even to have a whining can be shared with all the other who go with the flow, too. Terrible experiences of live in a peaceable country way more often cause personality disorders, than the same terrible experiences cause in war zones, where a huge group of people have got the same experiences. It might be less hard for Jane Bloggs to lose important data, while this happens to all her friends, too, than to have a notebook with a new WiFi chip, that isn't supported by her operating system, but supported by the operating system used by all her friends. "Vulcans are known as logical beings who have removed emotions from their lives." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_(Star_Trek)#Emotion An earthling has got needs, that could cause completely irrational behaviours. Live long and prosper From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 12:01:49 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF87115C069E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com (mail-yb1-xb32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A6ED83183 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:01:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id l10so1403516ybj.5 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:01:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=M2QgLATWqjIBBYzIoE4+697LyPYb/qJMgvPbMBBR5hU=; b=rD71WY3A11YMOJaf/BAEYZHC15RntiLrqbN1u9RdTiDh3xGOtRzKJBVhyZ/ZJIC3LT PQerfueEk7YIYvtll/65LBKM/6XIjQHDx65Y9saOjgN5vvPW5OyuqDHnVjh4LmpYNTVS ZCrzJIF64st/mbcewiUBZnjnfg/NXLgOlmoWg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=M2QgLATWqjIBBYzIoE4+697LyPYb/qJMgvPbMBBR5hU=; b=RAQlFU4NtVde0wat8OHheGioJ0pPy6zOJ17wGETQR5YgC/SFfHAu3zLVAY8HuD9Ubi E0XIAYG/pdog/B3o+y0XFqg12sYrgX6FMNwCkE4neB58oKYcjJlhWUgZB1hz7IdfoLj1 4PN9ETDfSz1lFeJb6Z1ue4ke8l5AEbc3nM7UvF5Y3cDGRnCDmLw7JfydEqdso5vkHIHa OA/iGLbw0rWqlVeziFGFyCoFwxMDtq4dcdbWituEr0RxbhHAj7rHEStbh6fcyPf5CjfH amx25ACAP/uy9Pdplgtj0PXeQLf3wtSX0QFSGZGiAAiVdqs8wMqtXRNTESfqOn74ptXc EO1w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVe/AJN3jviLjgieKoEherT1SZOQ/DyJJbX0y4bBfLXvbJqJInl iWlCdQQymD6vYI2qVoELvxn2I5C/Xtc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxKbHBo/rKzKUch2S1JbV37VznydF1smTOzzHDsQgxPaK2cgc0Cre50/2jagAjv42HShip9pg== X-Received: by 2002:a25:e08:: with SMTP id 8mr2441635ybo.177.1561636907645; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w134sm464727yww.41.2019.06.27.05.01.46 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ZJQx6GCFz3Cgx for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:01:34 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/1qW2sh_ixGRmZ_+xpWvY6Sm"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9A6ED83183 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=rD71WY3A; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.58 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.926,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.04)[ip: (-9.66), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.b.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:01:50 -0000 --Sig_/1qW2sh_ixGRmZ_+xpWvY6Sm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith stated: >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200 >Polytropon wrote: > >> This is especially true when you need software for a special >> purpose. Maybe I would call them "niche software", but it is >> actually in heavy use, like accounting, payroll, time-work >> management, or ticketing systems. =20 > > Many many years ago the approach to choosing a computer system > went >like this: > >1: Establish your requirements >2: Find or commission software that best supports your requirements >3: Select a platform that runs the software you selected >4: Iterate round 2 and 3 to optimise cost/benefit > > These days the common approach seems to be: > >1: Select platform by default >2: Accept software on offer >3: Adjust requirements and procedures to suit software >4: Bitch when you find yourself locked in I agree with all except #3 in the second set. sed 's/software/operating system/' #4 is right on no matter what system you are utilizing. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/1qW2sh_ixGRmZ_+xpWvY6Sm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl0UsB8ACgkQOHMGOIfe xWRIDggAqjMIS0gDILo6CPUnL93lW4nw600TgD2t5+UD1oqEHZaO6aHJfTCnxiGx WC59ZD51tjBiYW0bwl1FWfo4kSjCeS9TqxHYUYRrif7FhWVLnqym07HSh4uIuLTY 9xL6jO6uZhFlypnv5ZVMTUM+nsglMe/KbX11uTT1p5iEIVbRje1PJNSoxkJtdAFk nPQgl10anbxNz81Ur7KCGbAyM6xmcsq5WL2WkP9nx28VmuvVNDUD0MgX6W+M1U/O kycl2MjF7ahYcbHkenOeURwNjGT4OOpCC/gw0S86UMWtJf4X05KCi/qCmYRHKwrA yTZh402piCzVKK2b36InSFCIErJTJQ== =5xCA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/1qW2sh_ixGRmZ_+xpWvY6Sm-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 12:18:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75AD15C12BE for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:18:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD10F8399A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([188.103.163.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MvbJw-1iWeSh1gH8-00sfC0 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:57 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:56 +0200 From: Polytropon To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:X+NuAf0whHSEyT4afb0bXsqhwnLfyk8+PgBXwZ7RZ2iwoPJTL4H iXf5hkkT0ay8/lkUJN8x0ZsktpDJd896fJjyOrLNCiORBYVj4iykX9h3zmGrVSQvkpCa0e1 8NXbsm8ms53WmTUpIyuchshgAurLfCOMsnGLh5KrhCswEYC7y08Jf3U9N4EmZ6zRuceYEYi kLdkKZXclufc0cR2vwUzg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:E1l9qt6hnI4=:W40MRfeKJ5x1shYLxuQ++Z pbWQs3cOtSt00cRuBzKNL+2hs4K+aWqGf6+qV41/yFdv4C7uEdD7JyK3ZiFgcyO6MzVvCpRMD KvEy1Y2jC8iQpuTjQSHN7KnPBOsTOARFDpMeNjUda9MT5VfQul8Ce+0a3AehB1dap8XN+RNww m9ckGkTaMgqsFK0iinLU6pYL6rxNwK9u4lQN9uGk0upwlfBi5pXBxqOsMUsVzVY8bpbMHd9cs jyaPi906mRSw1zSPQQd9BBmBoE51mv4SKihFABXzMdrTpa0phoX2JPlmK+JVMU611+Z9xbjyq GSKlcHGRbwci6BW0eRrNC6iT6GTjVJzZ+JInc0z1vp8V+yMcft5lmxxU4Hgf9zIlPq5Tb1Ps2 wjIiw7TEAfg6p4HXEaIcnTII3a4pLKodD4phCI2uvvV6cCSpG4STpgVQhJb6yd4EIf8X4X28W dQ5FEwZ+WhU74N4u00QMpjzy95QjfEA3SCD5Gd1p4sLi0KsbyaRD84gnlnLL6xQ0byHe2GyMt 35JuOdE6K4j0VWi8RGfIo5XsBS4Xo/y3jd3AvJOif7j+dzjnfa4/FsdLYV7ZCRArtjmKIg7wS w/VXaPTWDCC6U4ldo1mppbuwr6GJlAyA3qGJSNwn6nrIyP1o0pMzc2m3qFhQgMe16NXIT3co9 qXzsd5abVQ+/68XX/AbLzjpif1ebJ7PP+u3PpQaW4EdOj944DtUl1MgqF4RXtdyiQJLs2mQxM XmGi1LUw6A+LbLraANEdguPaSgC8lum9/GXh/oKQsi0vWxsx81KsRm+lpXA= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AD10F8399A X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.41 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[228.163.103.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.906,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.79)[0.787,0]; IP_SCORE(0.33)[ip: (-0.96), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.46), country: DE(-0.01)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[74.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:18:08 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:01:34 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith stated: > >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200 > >Polytropon wrote: > > > >> This is especially true when you need software for a special > >> purpose. Maybe I would call them "niche software", but it is > >> actually in heavy use, like accounting, payroll, time-work > >> management, or ticketing systems. > > > > Many many years ago the approach to choosing a computer system > > went > >like this: > > > >1: Establish your requirements > >2: Find or commission software that best supports your requirements > >3: Select a platform that runs the software you selected > >4: Iterate round 2 and 3 to optimise cost/benefit > > > > These days the common approach seems to be: > > > >1: Select platform by default > >2: Accept software on offer > >3: Adjust requirements and procedures to suit software > >4: Bitch when you find yourself locked in > > I agree with all except #3 in the second set. > > sed 's/software/operating system/' > > #4 is right on no matter what system you are utilizing. The lock-in isn't primarily with operating systems (as even "Windows" provides means for communication and data transfer from and to other systems), but with application programs and the EULAs they come with. People aren't using operating systems per se, they are using programs to achieve a certain goal. It's often questionable if the chosen software fits the purpose (which is easy when you cannot properly state your goal before you buy or license software), and processes that have to be changed to match some crooked software's expectations about how things should be done. Such kind of annoying software can probably be run on any system, and even independently, using a web interface. Still, there is a tight connection between the software and the OS, because especially "niche solutions" are developed only for one OS, supported only for one specific OS version, and EULAs state you have to use that OS or the license will be revoked. Luckily, nobody reads EULAs anyway... ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 12:32:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50C715C1AC7 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECEE2842D4 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:32:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1561638774; x=1564230774; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=VjOp6QyMOlNTgeez1nwjsD8cBUusDWXKDWwA6X4a+P4=; b=UL1G2vXwQTJFS5bMhl4QbA2xa6XglacKhOOoRzcnrjq7qaa0oDoBmHtxN6PT1COpuLiQXoR8iHXw5if+jo4T7BAL3tXIJIKKzUznyaru5cxEqracuZfubAC2q3NX1UpyVGEmNCnKI6ZjqFxtCVW6TTddfog26LeOmiqm4Znwei4= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjUwMDAwMDBjOTgwYzAuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com [52.204.195.176]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:32:42 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r5.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:32:42 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hgTZx-0004xJ-57 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:32:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:32:41 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627133241.336cd6068824420a80eaccfe@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ECEE2842D4 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=UL1G2vXw; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.53 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mxbh.socketlabs.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.31)[-0.310,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[ip: (-0.56), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.26), asn: 7381(-0.19), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:32:55 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:01:34 -0400 Jerry wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:37:12 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith stated: > >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:03:40 +0200 > >Polytropon wrote: > > > >> This is especially true when you need software for a special > >> purpose. Maybe I would call them "niche software", but it is > >> actually in heavy use, like accounting, payroll, time-work > >> management, or ticketing systems. > > > > Many many years ago the approach to choosing a computer system > > went > >like this: > > > >1: Establish your requirements > >2: Find or commission software that best supports your requirements > >3: Select a platform that runs the software you selected > >4: Iterate round 2 and 3 to optimise cost/benefit > > > > These days the common approach seems to be: > > > >1: Select platform by default > >2: Accept software on offer > >3: Adjust requirements and procedures to suit software > >4: Bitch when you find yourself locked in > > I agree with all except #3 in the second set. > > sed 's/software/operating system/' Nope it's the software you accepted because it was on offer with/for the OS you got by default that means you have to adjust your procedures. > #4 is right on no matter what system you are utilizing. Avoiding lock-in is harder and requires thought and a policy of doing so from the start and accepting any limitations it imposes[2]. One implication is that all data must be stored in documented formats[1] with multiple implementations of tools available. Way back when I was learning how to design electronic things or production one principle that was strongly held was that nothing should be single-sourced, it's a good principle IMHO. [1] Openly documented isn't required provided you can obtain the documentation and the right to commission an implementation. [2] They're not really onerous but do require a willingness to not go with the flow. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 13:30:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9284815C2EEB for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:30:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5143085D2D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:30:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: a5pMU_4VM1nB1KQIJj01.RowztIhlJ6RD4BM3E_OAZg.QlL.e2Bkz6qUO_4Icd3 foJsbTU7q055Gno7w0RhghOPzRPo9GRlUjX6dnQVXHZQt8kWf6WyfmzqUcPATXQtDw7l8KYzSyfX Ydm4Xjs1E3odDDO0mUzUUUbQdn5QbIZ1OthWqUWdTQh0fB259zOZ5QjBOsK2SjabTw7etxa45aPx tJlM5GBGJNZFunPM_8nTxz4V7xwHzMyWNVD0YpITsOCfxQA4TjV_9RkhY4sDrKVne210VR4.1.GJ K2G.gY.M6V3xfQj1oeyV3iK3uTGlEfU2Sx9V2kyHIFl55RcKAb.KdAYhDKt0.E3CpiNw7bJEV1nP l8aEPuVF3OuSknsDPZWDr_Eqs4cjyIlK2P75Q2hdGR3tNixd11qfnxOZl8YEg63kpssgqkgpwxOI ZprqOoLx1LHsivh.fILLN3jGqZlSsT_x4ceFMRwQCmEi71vS9mc9cQ7Y20SzDT_1Lv54_I_98Z1t eGH4M5REDOAyrL_6yWDsG8yf3OIcQEtsQfJ6.DWeKLyFa2sRXHr6QIQa0vGuczgjxY5Pn4NmFJ6D RLn020vpusTc5UqtirdOzM2wg2ikl0Z9UQ7YUHEgHkE2hO0aXJ0kRpMBS9XMpYhx.n0_TY4rl4wq LoUmzA0WtFCpx1UW7cuLQY.gb.hE5_aDBFgTUQF5k7yfh_Vt4.jVDYaq03Mplegs7JkQku_A0k1X g7CVvS77dt4tUeBT_OFz3VWm_WdSdPZ5lD1w.j6kmJBS8BdnOCWgyTFHikFC2fJzhr8c0mjNz3Er 1ant_uRbFqVkMOF.TMLrl1yoavaLMwvfvSg2RqbH9morFWAIBvtHF2CUlH3I5wAlzXspclnFM6U7 TLrQd7q8aLf4ofoQ2hyrpq0V45AqQQbyKHQ0QEFQ6zU2Zz4VKG1RjHBA9QUclQQntSohcyh.uHJj J8AnVli3wp8SXdn8B_gmb.UW6_ck4s9l3qZ7CcdO2OLOxPgYriWs84n5uOqzHi.J2J5GkgfWHFi0 TjNuFt5tc7oK15ffD6JZqzPCJMavIAllv_CL4GZBXWoXCzy3F.LVC.yXzsm5jfWCOnmnl33W05eR FYpVIN6TIf_Zrsc7_uPMNjUfHG97FjzzhTzNrHpzlbkfHGYHClPLBPWd65tv4JX_2hqR9_xY.JC8 Gu.ut4TOqdlNvk4ufE1UXqacSI0.1z0FgGGK14FqDXMPDkJB0Oh2KIXGCwo.wfcEoK_APwaHXuN. 3xb8- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:30:45 +0000 Received: from x2f44acb.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([2.244.74.203]) by smtp428.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 95ff43e6579cbb7611aeb9185110f60a; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:30:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:30:43 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5143085D2D X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.41 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[203.74.244.2.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.94)[0.942,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(2.25)[ip: (7.05), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.39), asn: 34010(1.88), country: GB(-0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.77)[0.773,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.95)[0.949,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[145.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:30:48 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:56 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >Luckily, nobody reads EULAs anyway... ;-) Yes, very often users completely ignore the EULA of their Pirate Bay downloads. Sometimes, before it's possible to agree, we need to move a vertical scroll bar, but maybe the EU should enforce a control system. Before it is possible to agree, the end user needs to answer 3 questions regarding the EULA's content. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 14:17:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4CF15C42FA for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58A787AFE for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99444718047 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:17:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627082052.619cac1b.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <6c611c62-4e00-ff93-6f4c-72bb77b06b7d@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:17:26 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190627082052.619cac1b.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A58A787AFE X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.82 / 15.00]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[kicp.uchicago.edu]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.70)[-0.700,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.880,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.68)[0.678,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:37 -0000 On 2019-06-27 01:20, Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:22:05 -0400 (EDT), doug@safeport.com wrote: >> The only draw back I have hit in running FreeBSD workstations is wifi support >> and some video cards. The firm you engage should be knowledgeable in this. > > Here is something I'd like to add: USB security tokens. Certain models > require specific drivers only available for "Windows 10" (see problems > discussed before) and a buggy equivalent for Linux. No macOS support. > In case you should require those, experimenting with wine (or a VM with > a "single-purpose" installation of "Windows") might be worth looking at. > >>From my experience, WiFi was never a problem because workstations were > all networked with cable, and video cards, well, the brand and model > that supported the BrookTree interface provided by FreeBSD was chosen > for purchase. Problems solved. ;-) Choosing Atheros WiFi adapter solved WiFi for my laptop running FreeBSD. As much as I loved Intel WiFi chips, I started hating them for proprietary firmware blobs when I switched laptop from Linux to FreeBSD. Just my $0.02 Valeri > > Yes, of course I know that you cannot always buy something new, and > instead have to deal with "we must use what we have" problems. That's > why proper testing is needed _before_ the transition starts. > > > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 14:21:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82DCD15C45A4 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:21:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BBEC87D34 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:21:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([188.103.163.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N7iGi-1ic3uj2SVG-014oU0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:20:59 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:20:58 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190627162058.fb658a45.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:gdfAdNjTbWn48ZJcNYH3ZB4hEu3ndimDZITg8NiJ5lSCNyuTilE IbbaWOftqbvaLY3eCbD97dC4MxY+73LX85Ew6gN/13ITAjy+zIewzNwQ4OlMC7rMqPI0ZxY rhDKA/Xmtd0zO1mdOL8kJb9mRBSlVbfsXsQ5xG9lvM7E7qviNIBxjNVzMRZhKbxZI5yknZR NVcFKViJcVFQL95Ir5EwA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:BuqjeqpJzCQ=:CNlb8xLSKcuDU4UaBBEbYh Ljtcw9rfkJpYgHmnH8pZf+nV1In+AgQVAY5tcOVTKWdWCS/edCpRoHlOz3Do2XRLzxy9JPjkU 6cJi9Sw8yTSyLFeX1d+KvYIquKcfDYLOZRKu0PfRq6NJAJMbisHhfg2kvgNAtSTz3jB9k8pMG WNVKmCi2QWGKigWDFypMUvNtuZePd0V9HlZDoj3PUGFgBYFbCBCGyOVN0Uc17DikGd60IapkM buodDiTThl2GJ/H2MsPRYYs8QtWCVR8haS5EU46wB/2IBETzgsEc1WMzKc8QybwQjx1qfqC5h uREbDplMHs3qQiSOAaWyXTIl3/C8TBOxN/M06zLI661G8qF3FW36wSl3vj2ohQ8YGL6o8OX3Z OCYJOx1FLiEbG1X+g+zbfF+AMc98wXCiGhFYbHKJ+huqANNmTYHhlG0RcA1PZo06RLM5gpOQQ qbMSkSVfjhNsgxVOMBnOdZSbqwO3JNnRZ+uzSfvkPP66QaidiQygr/ePTD/cI6sNAn8PjMpbU +VoI4RZQj3cUprJIJC23RUC6/hVxOFuXf6Brzm+oGuQMKjjjPHUXgO09Ih82GVw32cTPIuEDB nF29E7JV2fPS1lCeYYhuehBNIn1q76WRXU2I8kaXn6INo8FFm4wH/F+ZfYsS7rUYIK42wwajP kMrqnbdJ4dD1O2S6p5mrpJwxJUcaEAEZw3bNGvaAxo+BFqPpStOnNLuAnAKc5cKVSm4rsGexN UOj4qcMcVPjnamMo1pw4IvC5tTnhOlIEnkyluyKulU+XVWpatpBsNLf9NWY= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5BBEC87D34 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.79 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[228.163.103.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.90)[0.899,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.885,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[75.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.61)[ip: (0.49), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.46), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:21:14 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:30:43 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:56 +0200, Polytropon wrote: > >Luckily, nobody reads EULAs anyway... ;-) > > Yes, very often users completely ignore the EULA of their Pirate Bay > downloads. They can do so - in country where an EULA is not a kind of legally binding contract... > Sometimes, before it's possible to agree, we need to move a > vertical scroll bar, but maybe the EU should enforce a control > system. Before it is possible to agree, the end user needs to answer 3 > questions regarding the EULA's content. This is a task for lawyers, not for ordinary people. Two lawyers, three opinions. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 14:30:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A196C15C499F for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:30:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe29.google.com (mail-vs1-xe29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E37088EAE for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe29.google.com with SMTP id q64so1774509vsd.1 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:30:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=M+65mxEmd6dQkI42X4kqBhT4TKQQ3Th9AvKlwwmfxfM=; b=1xNATFaa7U+O+SMZcZEcDSHa7ZKY4VtOUfBkvw7nbq9n/0JWQ+R5Rc2aH6iYbTWk71 HSEoSERa+Fr/APY3JGhUvjW9GToEUUK1hI6R/vn8k3Ms6HVh6PqHNu3R2eH/dvs8V9KI eJj8+eXXO4OxaLLH+HxPZNVVnzgGYcK1rYhxm9G0cfTY8LK+sS0w41/OPaTYcIbvcHaq zo/MVm2KhuaujyUR5o440rEsD6bZ+urxsPWCQvKSEiQgozYvN3B7zpZVYdQK/uEpQtTN foQuNKyRWZgf7VyClI0tItm29xOaRtcBqYRv+H0ZcPcDOZFBv4GjwxKHFAXQeFJC3Q8J WYIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=M+65mxEmd6dQkI42X4kqBhT4TKQQ3Th9AvKlwwmfxfM=; b=VVSwXTDV+4LQ8vfhmXijsINYgRz8+KshKJnB9zKo3fyYFuxjyCUXJ3K80uU6jwCeit XH4WFzFqqKGefMfs8bRw83dpF+GvUoPZkKX1l6WYIUkIin5NC6YwI9PXA4qvb0AiG6qu g3kMT7dWR/Zez5/01QgKI0rerDmRTASjvITsgfHumo8LxJwkZ54I+qnKUQ8TOOsKVePo ylBULRM5e4Yv/dMx7AwTwxSihbK55ztFnXfAUJI5apXDN4mNib4Xcd4zeNAOs/Y09OmV hNY9H2zGqVEq7YkNKU+Tz0iHONyx9/PgGh/XlUBxqkG6GERoENMD8vwtZyJjNbFBodz5 7ytQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXsdbcBZLBfzXHNjs6Uw3WE58jWjc85XFn0HTvBZiGkFEnpGmcs hFCh5Su+5XpAVM4CErVXGH9u3TRyM4xC1Kf/yy8ABQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy7qSrIwhgS6HBqNLOMIM48XuDpR8ZI99+6lmuDWfgufN6+Q3C2X34BWfyrdt4OLOhcUNZq0oP6kGOWP5k2RhI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ba12:: with SMTP id l18mr2950972vsn.29.1561645805030; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:30:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> From: Alejandro Imass Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:29:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Questions , Polytropon X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7E37088EAE X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=1xNATFaa; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.47 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.898,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.06)[ip: (-9.78), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:30:10 -0000 On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 3:11 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:15:18 +0200, Polytropon wrote: > >I know, this is a very individual point of view and experience, but > >as you can see: It _is_ possible, and it starts with the right > >decision. :-) > > Hi, > > it makes a big difference, if somebody needs to ask for recommendations > or not. It makes a difference, if somebody is assuming "probably > Canonical/Ubuntu would be a better fit than FreeBSD" or knows if it > does or does not. > > > [...] > There's no paper shop without magazines promoting Linux container > approaches as the ultimate solution for everything. Take, for example, > Ubuntu's snap thingy. Due to the container approach some software might > be unable to provide full functionality, since access to software > outside the container could be tricky, even impossible. > > We are discussing a Desktop environment, not virtualization nor containers. For the Desktop, there is not a single Linux distribution that is more user friendly than Ubuntu and FreeBSD is not especially user-friendly when it comes to using it on the Desktop: I am referring to hardware and software compatibility with every day tasks, ease of use and community and/or commercial support. Regarding Linux containers IMHO they are just a bad copy of FreeBSD Jails and in my own projects both personal and my own companies I use FreeBSD with EzJail and I can do what other people are doing with Docker and Terrfaform, etc. Nevertheless, in the mainstream IT industry, sadly FreeBSD Jails are not well known, nor is FreeBSD in general. I say sadly, because it would be a great contender to all the Linux container-based stuff that is being used today. IIRC I started a thread a while ago suggesting that Jails should be rebranded to FreeBSD Containers and things like EzJail should be native. But no one seemed interested in this discussion. > I'm absolutely pro Linux, FreeBSD and anything FLOSS for desktop > computers, but to get work done, I'm using a proprietary product > named after a fruit, too and I at least need to run wine-staging on > Linux, too. Wine isn't without pitfalls. > > Agreed, Wine seems to have run it's course IMHO. Use actual Windows, even if virtualized, when running Windows-based software. > Assuming a company gets work done on proprietary operating systems, > then ensure that migrating to FreeBSD or a Linux distro does provide > what is needed and that the software worked in the past, at the moment > and doesn't have dependencies against phase-out model libraries. > > Choosing a Linux distro is not easy to do and depends much on the > target. > > Here I have to disagree. I used Linux on the desktop _exclusively_ from 1998 to 2012 and I tried most, if not all, the main distros throughout that time and Ubuntu always won in terms of ease of use and compatibility and stuff just works. NVL when I switched to Mac in 2012 it was like having the best of of both worlds and now I am stuck with the complete Apple ecosystem, but I keep using FreeBSD in my servers (since 2006). Best, Alex From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 14:30:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB7D15C4A1C for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:30:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 895CC8909A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B1122256 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:30:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:30:34 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: hw.ncpu changes after recent updates Message-ID: <20190627143034.GA9574@mon.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.0 (2019-05-25) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 895CC8909A X-Spamd-Bar: --------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=LKWk2ZmI; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=Ey2YUt4T; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-9.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zyxst.net:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; 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charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Possibly a silly question, but is it expected that hw.ncpu would change after the recent intel cpu related updates? hw.ncpu used to be 8, is now 4. CPU is i7-4770K machdep.hyperthreading_allowed=3D0 thanks, --=20 J. --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl0U0wEACgkQs8o7QhFz NAUNFg//SqbfEAK2lz/p0pdqhbZPUKl5wbFZF7WtQRXWQ0PBij7mVJn/C6WR242H FDUHAf4reFWp2nAcIJe63XNjiCI+4VMpaLUpuIzLzo/bry8ko172blu5oEXMc2IR q9dQcnpmoab+YVNbc+lXZfdCcHEPc8ULywlcaRNoXfbhXs2JZ3puEMWnbDrRyK1z Qj203Ui0RqFTyZmzWAf+gZPf48uaFqSROYAau+0MfxyL54PDgJU4xtVmCWWxi8hz KukWHiH/p7p+jM1dALigoZcP74mS8PCi6rAa0dyv6mCCkysbiwmRHraFbGmtDjK7 esnadu/ReOK3LJMsTFq/lbt2eUoo3rSTZvfIUPOSKbrw9mpn8rPamc6vBVVO+HuZ /O556RbKWs9FpRBxwEbdGghksfHrcKUWvbVR5h46Sf8rGwfTw0o1BOENul/gv675 trg1Cd7KSBVwycJsmDEgtzrNvYR3gO1Xp1rCeoARY4qEb64OauRWOzq9cRfkzafb Q3UgLXF9rxKDtE03UqRZgZYDpsv3IfDiDpJTCshmc+AdPtqyPuP+rpnDXL3Cc9sN Mo8W3y3INPdPCTIKMaDaoTetX/f5OQz9PYm5l04Q5iLz9AOOrYP5QN+H8ryFH3Hh zW3f0lhYTsvZkEYOj2MKHmB6r2lPJ3oz4tSvBMt4np8C6gKLovw= =wsgI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tThc/1wpZn/ma/RB-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 14:57:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A44F15C54CF for ; 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dkim=pass header.d=freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=VqLGevGx; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of antranigv@freebsd.am designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antranigv@freebsd.am X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.am]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.86)[ip: (-8.77), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT3.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT4.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[5.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.943,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:57:27 -0000 Hi J. Hyper-Threading[1] is a technology which allows running two threads on one core, however since Intel had multiple security issues, many people have turned it off, not sure you did that manually or has been changed during an update. so yes, if you had ncpu=8 before, now it should be 4 :) 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading On Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 6:31 PM tech-lists wrote: > Hi, > > Possibly a silly question, but is it expected that hw.ncpu would change > after the recent intel cpu related updates? > > hw.ncpu used to be 8, is now 4. CPU is i7-4770K > machdep.hyperthreading_allowed=0 > > thanks, > -- > J. > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 15:40:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD9F15C61FD for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:40:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E6E8B702 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:40:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B96718047 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:40:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:40:53 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 59E6E8B702 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.47 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.81)[-0.810,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.231,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: kicp.uchicago.edu]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:40:59 -0000 On 2019-06-27 08:30, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:17:56 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >> Luckily, nobody reads EULAs anyway... ;-) > > Yes, very often users completely ignore the EULA of their Pirate Bay > downloads. > > Sometimes, before it's possible to agree, we need to move a > vertical scroll bar, but maybe the EU should enforce a control > system. Before it is possible to agree, the end user needs to answer 3 > questions regarding the EULA's content. Let me improvise the questions (pertinent to many proprietary EULAs I had to read as part of my sysadmin's duty) 1. Are you happy with us keeping right to terminate EULA [agreement] at any time? 2. Are you happy with your inability to move perpetually licensed for use by you software to different system (hardware) after your initial "support term" ends? 3. Are you happy to get perpetual license that depends on the existence of our company? (examples: a. siftware has to check in with company license server every time you start it; b. your "perpetual" license is actually 1 year term license; but the company sends you new license shortly before current term expires) ;-) Just listing nuisances I've seen myself. Couldn't fit into question the biggest one: "software for rent"... Even Adobe (whom I always thank for postscript) lost my respect big time for starting doing that. Valeri > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 18:24:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD4515C984E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:24:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hank1904@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic306-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic306-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.189.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 040A76A570 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:24:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hank1904@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: C4YFiYIVM1nrCwuqTzDnN8vi7t.3u1q7BbtejnnHZA7Vn6tbOe57151YCaT38Zc zHNcKD.DQSs5qgNRl3CaFQrdtok2TCu1P26JvyH0r631F.S4D3_QB7ZhZEzYj1hxyKViF87jnSgT 2vD3WShSjLBiDos12PLDOhUnSqBZqYE5Q32jn3QqcvZfWHdV7hh.YrsVHPGU9rcti4niWvsqucIS w6c4rxHAyyZs28jO1UMWD_W7laNuhq0KA01ZVMOdGzVOKHC4QfGyJVlcHfp.Cyv5wLU3v3gNj.3x wey5S5Rz2oI5qskWvJ0k0fm6wTVsxrplq6GNXj3OAgmvejv4K66lEyb.Rw8zW1JmolPp2CZeflS4 dcv.dKVdjdSesxVpzcS7Z.2wsI4G_2E_N8TT62iAX4P0Hen6Q9uBbP5fHPq40y.u_eQUKrftPZs8 ywWHlDs8Z84IIj5qnTh8tj2aB8K6v5hSb.Dyl5MUzJ3VJmCMrYEpsk5x_tDNQxP1zwGwhWo0efpK BjjJyPFJEkxeAzIo3QpAfA1rFSKepJsOzKQUlpKEybN62x9n3.YI8eeHqihRE8xRQWXytpMFtIaC mpN_Y1GG8MVkPvYr8giH5nQSvGkJsISql5IdIXTJIoOkasGEA9.1ouDedQhd4o9ojgFuUnXBdwfu DcRU7VixOfH0eAjMEr3mZji1Ho4wMrBXfQcunpSjKu5sdrlMD3cwCgVZlyQ4uuTYhPPR54DhdqAb YE8MYbz4lmmNmUOxdd.eb1FUv_jPSgecn6b90NDdUrBTPZ_ALkkryx6LeguYHE6IjapWNvCjeMTD 2OYma52Y1WvbMQGhonMOqf_6WJgKDDUhrBWioEttcyEgbcxkf0CoJkbhzqkspN9D2.NbHs6UhgLB 9bF0rni.PsDQpEc7aKDYp6mJpvrFBLHtRri8uUR5T1IFuHu8e8iIZUn9tVjK8SB4S2mTI6AfH57z Xgur_fsLaIqJkDzL5bKDScFv82zxOVM7uBiCL6xHEjs0GjLb4_xKz7h26C.8KxJwpu6FYFWoaS7V yGw5KVlbI.FS7bRzk0ITPu4dGYRYs4qtSsE9aN97Te05CYnVNO73vGhtEX_xTqiizQcugyLxAgMV uFL07yW17Lgua38erg4ouo.KdqGsQafoxHQKOJidl84Pc32vuQc_5THqMbJDzsGncTXWYqObMVjk UMqdT6mEJ7VXJW2xnE901QexfOF2YQUHkQ.SOKTnAqyeZsyC3oeTLIT1BAKGbtn7eEpGOeCQ- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:24:30 +0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:24:27 +0000 (UTC) From: henry udoye To: henry udoye Message-ID: <953259244.416963.1561659867185@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?If_you_don=E2=80=99t_mind,_I_am_looking_for_Linux_O?= =?UTF-8?Q?S_or_UNIX,_or_FreeBSD,_or_FreeDOS_or_ReactOS?= =?UTF-8?Q?_or_Ecomstation_or_Haiku_laptop/notebook_th?= =?UTF-8?Q?at_meets_the_specifications_below_or_better.?= MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <953259244.416963.1561659867185.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13913 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 040A76A570 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.26 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS(0.00)[hank1904@yahoo.com,freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.93)[0.932,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.92)[ip: (2.35), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.29), asn: 36646(1.03), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.810,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.609,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[83.189.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:40:46 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:24:35 -0000 DearSir/Madam: Ifyou don=E2=80=99t mind, I am looking for Linux OS or UNIX, or FreeBSD, or= FreeDOS or ReactOSor Ecomstation or Haiku laptop/notebook that meets the s= pecifications below orbetter. RAM;4GB-8GB SPEED:2.5GHZ HDD:500GB Thankyou and I look forward to your response or cooperation. =C2=A0 Sincerely. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 HenryUdoye From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 19:12:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F0915CA9FB for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:12:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw1-xc2d.google.com (mail-yw1-xc2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E09E6BF49 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:12:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yw1-xc2d.google.com with SMTP id t126so2004090ywf.3 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KtvV8BhsrFmPnPg+Ygnm2gP8ChOkQjO/OSbADLxO7SY=; b=Sz7QidXALaS5c/gQai+VQkL8xQRspQ6HAOuYZyn0cesuxcULuJT6FFHWJ6EKnnUME3 m72BsGxGD/XIujJp3MiWXc1DPqTPhUMlcUu3aAQX5ZSRuTmlzQAEZSEDBBvyvsdSr8j3 yqmgCq6HeSvJJjjqWasnEkDPRaStNVh6/0RXg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KtvV8BhsrFmPnPg+Ygnm2gP8ChOkQjO/OSbADLxO7SY=; b=kroD/XTTct8UKLj7wjN8Ugla/aE+PJS2Ov6jsdGCXl9HnNdRZ7ENDS65mPVUk0+wfX mJ2deZk8bHJ6sS9JXZKSgnKovBl8HVQWmwaaESEfXfFaKvKqvrIgeQY8IwjSIQaL18iV 1kYFrdGuQegZo4vJG8atY7igeAGyAuUteuNLlECIEZ+IZA9Yi4Qiv4dETqenDHr7RfGP hf0j/EH/ziCy/wUNpr5V1TASPrBEHZcQ4XUlTHZE1psregQg7LWwkLzQGhHbn5cwqIyN CTc9tWlZi9fTl8YvxczqTIED+xipj8e/C0HoyqNiTZBathEojPQwae4rZTgrCo8iXIf/ 3nww== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJ65Mc+vRYQIxm9djP8IWC4JIp/ft/YcQT76hxlOxjg4LTdwiO IPR1qIu7tzBnl3G2b600p+Wc/mYwo9U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwNkHtTwe9MsKWrgzxF34nkd62MjCwAn4cS4+hwN2IL2VUSQCaRTNx/3RAH1/YxoZ0Rzk3VsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a81:3492:: with SMTP id b140mr3654408ywa.391.1561662745084; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p12sm716875ywg.72.2019.06.27.12.12.23 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ZTzp5Ml4z3DJW for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:12:21 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1E09E6BF49 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=Sz7QidXA; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.39 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.90)[ip: (-8.98), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:12:27 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:40:53 -0500, Valeri Galtsev stated: >;-) Just listing nuisances I've seen myself. Couldn't fit into >question the biggest one: "software for rent"... Even Adobe (whom I >always thank for postscript) lost my respect big time for starting >doing that. I could not disagree more with that assessment of 'software leasing' in general and Adobe in particular. For $32.01 per month for the entire Creative Cloud applications with 100GB storage. Since you are allowed two active instances, that effectively works out to $16 per month. That is less than my petty cash fund. Also, you receive all updates as they are released free of charge. When you consider that purchasing all of Adobe's Cloud applications would cost over $2000, and then finding yourself with software that will soon be out of date, I consider this a steal. I think the problem is that all too many individuals believe everything should be free, except of course their own time and labor. I work for a living and expect to be paid. I have no problem with others thinking the same way. I am not a socialist who wants something for nothing. Nothing is more expensive than "free". -- Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 19:57:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80BC15CBD25 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:57:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A6D6D7CC for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:57:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9180F718047 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:57:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <79915f8c-9405-2ffe-e790-39d5794e7d0c@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:57:35 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A1A6D6D7CC X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.65)[-0.653,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.878,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.52)[0.518,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: kicp.uchicago.edu]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:57:38 -0000 On 2019-06-27 14:12, Jerry wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:40:53 -0500, Valeri Galtsev stated: >> ;-) Just listing nuisances I've seen myself. Couldn't fit into >> question the biggest one: "software for rent"... Even Adobe (whom I >> always thank for postscript) lost my respect big time for starting >> doing that. > > I could not disagree more with that assessment of 'software leasing' in > general and Adobe in particular. For $32.01 per month for the entire > Creative Cloud applications with 100GB storage. Since you are allowed > two active instances, that effectively works out to $16 per month. > That is less than my petty cash fund. Also, you receive all updates as > they are released free of charge. When you consider that purchasing all > of Adobe's Cloud applications would cost over $2000, and then finding > yourself with software that will soon be out of date, I consider this a > steal. > > I think the problem is that all too many individuals believe everything > should be free, except of course their own time and labor. I hope, you didn't derive this from what I said. As what I said wasn't at all intended to mean that. My own effort is valuable for me and I do value the effort of people who created my tools. These are only rare occasions when great open source suites are actually paid for, not created on bare enthusiasm (Postfix comes to my mind, created by Vietse Venema who worked for IBM at that time, and IBM was really keen to have decent replacement for sendmail to offer for everybody). > I work for a > living and expect to be paid. I have no problem with others thinking the > same way. I am not a socialist who wants something for nothing. Nothing > is more expensive than "free". > And I keep repeating the same: good work should be paid for. By customer. (Who still is free to evaluate durability of his/her purchase). Valeri -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 20:16:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB45D15CCB06 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 591656F686 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:16:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: c8mNBQoVM1m3SjetDagMNBwJbz1.L._XgbbDynW_9bXmsstgxe84n8_GgA4G_Be MSJ4jXaYSJ03nJovScZn8IjkTys7MZwIu8e6P5atuOs_03c9uYrkHNY5efpfbkI04I.JRMGbPbpu VhRx2uFQEBEX6mX99SRYqcNytuq0qsBc3ieI9kEeg1L4QRX1naWKDW_GZYl2DkDPjrPSZmesTw4U 39w.ZSTnAIraK1lm2gQz284YnvllEgGnmt.Kb1cZYXePG0YVqIAQtiu.kv3ClBkWz.B1gNnA6ubQ rcb1T9OzSGvou7FH.dA0Z.qoHYGajKM.GnRhNYG9f8rIfiGRUg6ej2_vjCJwtkPa9x9kV3J_zKsY shckgLf01nJAdmTHV.BBkoAe5k8T8xyHaP9hLDrL12znU5G02dofqLl8fuBwm.9LCy75fETx6uAv y195J.xD_7rATMp.GUh7rl5EmiqUMFrLkFSlWg6cxAq5rhSiFCbZ.EBuvAH88gSNLpeFo9ChL9ga p_jW5nRGVVV5_E8g3D1oL.14Q6LIGtHprKVjSSAOwOH69rcW3K6aisuVsBzZPoIR.zbxwX.xoBRJ xlBm32hQVCRTPjxmHRatf8tjG63aK7cffAvULB9RRh2h.693CVy32Ug8oMrnO6vsdKNfEcYH.9FP 7FnNf5at6JUaPbL1swSqL4ze36c1CiFELx7.i4Z.o2en_zv_ucs0QeGxNDPCcICnr3cr4_fBxf7D jTiiVnRVY6IbFbvTL0TdcGVqgAXsUPL3Q_k.m9FW1KCwl5OCMsQRj0TCArp0GQQo.lE2JM9MmEcx TxXwI2a9ByPHy9XcXX1mbn39VVMkfBCxIQJjPPxMtqE2sxQ5SqFCZbqaCLwio8ZpWFkIm3hXeECJ aG.EavXydMWprs7Pg7zN9.5pO09GZNetGrO07hGZjv0o_dY7LHe35IO2lNwqGkzCW5nFWSx_qvBm 7vAhXbnMITSumaeovqmzfVvT0kVRi6fvKFxyWQNhDluYClKv0WvV.WTNvnrJy0LrcpvRHSLE4M5R cQjNynZVQ.eSY2LQeOT3SggF74vGE_sWEy4Ox.p5QwP4szjiLcZEAiBY2EYkv848xjaj7yK24krn egGaTebyFmPQklUkfpYbIdr9pwNIgPEtCt_IUvfNQRlRXSTeTwG57J_p4z6FcSqh94nvmF4omAci gExzz62FAN2S_djQeAsvgk8KC_tVixWJEXVnHBLeYIRY.F_rSVFxhuF0NKYD0n.IfJbBdvj4- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:16:02 +0000 Received: from x2f44acb.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([2.244.74.203]) by smtp427.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6ec9865e0c1f2ad061c17b7104173c60 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:16:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 591656F686 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[203.74.244.2.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(1.54)[ip: (3.32), ipnet: 87.248.110.0/24(2.58), asn: 34010(1.89), country: GB(-0.09)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.861,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.84)[0.839,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.89)[0.887,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[84.110.248.87.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[84.110.248.87.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:16:12 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:12:21 -0400, Jerry wrote: >I am not a socialist who wants something for nothing. >Nothing is more expensive than "free". This is based upon a fundamental error in reasoning. Software to rent for artists could be a serious problem. I don't want the software for free as in beer. I want to buy (pay for it and then own) the software I want to use, since there are times when I have money and there are times all I've got to eat, are the wallpapers from my walls. To do some work, the software to do the work is needed. If an artist can't pay the rent for the software, the artist can't do the artwork to earn money. You might argue that instead of paying a lot of money at on time, set up an account with all that money and set up a standing order for the rent. This is worldly innocent, such preliminary planning isn't an option for everybody, let alone that not everybody using professional software, is using it for a business model. Btw. a worldview were things are for free as in beer isn't necessarily a socialists worldview. In 100 years and maybe much earlier, an unconditional basic income most likely is the only solution to preserve civilisation. Market economy, even social market economy as we know it, unlikely will exist for much longer. The importance of FLOSS most likely will increase, this is not necessarily related to UNIX/POSIX alike operating systems. To me the attempts to provide more and more software for a rent only, seems to be the last resort to rip off users for the very last time, before the world order will make a fundamental change related to economy, ecological awareness and social progress. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 20:44:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE42815CDF06 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:44:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tekbasse@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4932170C30 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:44:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tekbasse@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: Bdn8cYEVM1l7gL2e7U8FZEe0jIKSTKnm0eQjlF5Rb86CIMQHUAINQVCVo60qCCq lixU.1LdIgJjdJMV6pBHrDuDCrn1I2pQEWJtBBZYEwVmYHOoOwhNzJT3VkJ7qNvamN_0NTSV28K9 OpuuroiNYpc2lr8hcCcwLs4NjERRRy8pHfP3CrmbzccUN9ImyheQ_TsSObdeLZl2OgWL7qIuvJjm aj0nIYPI7xkQbeWvHqYuq2wizK9aPS1EpbDevhJfxuAPoLDw.JMfDS7Y9G2F2yrERdlX1CM9jioJ .ZOXnxX4_Lmpc.8CmVyTeNLWJJR.gQ_6NlGF9xxoPXy2q3sbU2OaHcf79.9.aVW5SeyICWaVwaoK h573nqY2SECCB0TV44mOX1QXBUYRfbrXt8smO.tYWkkfyO1lInlmv009s2kzRC4mxzuepAaciFNK dmYLMsP0nOTPERkSvZltO8D__40W1_4u4L_UkPE5JyG7T7xRPsu3ujtvPP87EpNbWvJDesSCLvsC qsi_xw4_cYYoZeEhCbC4SF6bgOY0bgXoHyRwKaM9B1GtPNWmXDnWtJdY8Ngrfhaf5mkRIC0DHxD1 K_mEflOjcq8S1syr_RMSNh._rvLKOcdoAyjiHT14ICV8yEuvLqX6.f8U_79tByfS8SAthwUsqStD WfSOBw8i.83IIuIt64EPd1w..cyb2YJ2VLAITN2ZgrOidUDu9KHaKcHIU89CxGlZtFab_IFGlHWH Lou7_owVwDEZwWSdlRx04pOi6uXtf0W0nA4uwQ46nWSQ7G1lC07PxfGFHL4Fe.tT_3ZDlDYP.Ha9 UrDHoozrTzBOrm0JSOBdblrwX.O9e1nuDNfdPmNaozlFSMs04uGuIgQrHUgJ41R9sYOH3pfjgDAH dS_0DCi6R8aUZcxxS4QS1GGgSUWlgSEpwjXGjBnvy0j4NuZ3MICUd7EHzbtwsiYY3NXNhjCXO0PY xA83zaEFGHWTqtSDsiqMaTJfG5h0AwE1HQSLdVVR7bBgYxmuKD9yx5XkifqYh.hNCwK2mci8ItRO 4Oi4Pur3eDopfZHAB62bgmnV2ICtQpEe1V_ubHuA0.WHMI8DdMaSz6ptdT2v05DHcb30hPAByJPy 7wXb0yMQqH3PcPKVrrx8uK3GHh1fkPX_xxwhx0JDQZYLL1hwIe23YtlB8X9EqnYP4.ApjgWXY5hW .FwXws_vo.kwfSuHXfYWZe6kl78U6plwBqI.hsjXpCJ2ha_ryttqFS5pU3VdEwzF3mqs57JiMz5R PKXtnSnJ33bfHP_qKiXznHhg- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:44:30 +0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Ben Brink To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: How to update ports for portmaster? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13875 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:67.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/67.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4932170C30 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.11 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.93)[0.930,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.95)[0.951,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[31.68.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; IP_SCORE(1.28)[ip: (4.78), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.93), asn: 36647(0.75), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.963,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:44:36 -0000 Hi, While trying to install git with: portmaster -a portmaster -D --no-confirm devel/git This error occurs: htmlxref.cnf doesn't seem to exist in /usr/ports/distfiles//texinfo/6.5. Apparently, I need to update ports, per this "bug" report[1]. And yet, these don't fix the issue: portmaster -af =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 portmaster --clean-distfiles-all =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 portmaster --check-port-dbdir =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 portmaster -Faf=20 # and have also tried variations on direct install, like: portmaster -D --no-confirm print/texinfo =C2=A0=C2=A0=20 I've also tried: portsnap update # but it complains that I need to portsnap extract also.. And yet, I don't = want to create voluminous storage.. and have two ports management systems i= n use. So, what is the system expecting to update ports for portmaster in this cas= e? thanks kindly, Ben =20 1. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D235857 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 21:32:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4A015CED8B for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from dnvrco-cmomta03.email.rr.com (dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.73.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2CE7724E2 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6722@twc.com) Received: from localhost ([96.28.161.151]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id gbsJhZzHTWnTigbsLhlvxe; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:24:14 +0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:24:00 +0000 From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org CC: henry udoye Subject: Re: If you don’t mind, I am looking for Linux OS or UNIX, or FreeBSD, or FreeDOS or ReactOS or Ecomstation or Haiku laptop/notebook that meets the specifications below or better. References: <953259244.416963.1561659867185.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIDdjAP3aeW/T/DXTApu8WqI2MApXFwDA2EbrM5FcnqaBOu5nM0XVsI+ks8OLuuYoeRs/GeJ3kG1WJPALd7TTP6E7EqXm3aywcPunOw9WOXPuj/WqNFr y8uVXbQZgNQBZOh3iqKtqestylmvs7b+SPV8vsXdiKipJ4MBZ6+LDcx0R3EY/FHugl2C4QVu6reK3A== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E2CE7724E2 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mueller6722@twc.com designates 107.14.73.230 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mueller6722@twc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.92 / 15.00]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_MISSING_CHARSET(2.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:107.14.73.0/24]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; BROKEN_CONTENT_TYPE(1.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[twc.com]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[151.161.28.96.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[twc.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7843, ipnet:107.14.73.0/24, country:US]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.830,0]; SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING(1.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[twc.com]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[230.73.14.107.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.45)[ip: (-6.40), ipnet: 107.14.73.0/24(-3.21), asn: 7843(-2.57), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:52 -0000 > Ifyou don’t mind, I am looking for Linux OS or UNIX, or FreeBSD, or FreeDOS or ReactOSor Ecomstation or Haiku laptop/notebook that meets the specifications below orbetter. RAM;4GB-8GB SPEED:2.5GHZ HDD:500GB > Thankyou and I look forward to your response or cooperation. > Sincerely.   > HenryUdoye There are many Linux distributions to choose from, two of interest to me might be Gentoo (www.gentoo.org) and Voidlinux (voidlinux.org). I am now in NetBSD (www.netbsd.org) I believe eComStation is at ecomstation.com but may be superseded by ArcaOS (www.arcanoae.com): proprietary, supports only i386 and would not recognize RAM > 4 GB. ReactOS: www.reactos.org FreeDOS: www.freedos.org Haiku: haiku-os.org If you posted to this list, you probably already know where to get FreeBSD (freebsd.org). You could also look to Wikipedia (wikipedia.org) or duckduckgo.com (search engine). Tom From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 21:46:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A0B15CF28D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:46:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CA6F72C25 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:46:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id s15so7027966wmj.3 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:46:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eHL0xTHmaYymCVO/Ob+twZca05bz7pzV6Xp/N8daV3s=; b=HEGgvTNLi68y8y2GCrQ1+0cSpQid6CMIspcQlE+gH864y0Raxqa4VyE3N83RWkIzC3 sdZB6kp/YCYU5EuWWh/F+rdxKDpY1f+wFsR+SQXgADTaGGBkRppUikzweDlbY8kUXODX XtyQcE1zM/OUGrswraRUQbVFRcJTttRFvq7Fs7WkvfQLDOBtYtW3jMyYnOSu8VsMx4No I81wQ6i7UBMM35cSnBQJugIN65umHDQs/QXHrxxgWiVPE2DmnVyHTFZGBt4Q6rFgIo5z oBjyEkOmmlBOKejSkv9tDquSzQrI7L/1Q/fgSKIycqERL/DiIUL/zQjq4BntT2G2FtD/ Pr1g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVZpEYCYMm91yrcTnkk/A26eF58EPjtAbO3Y4YSg/Fv9+DS1BVR HbuB3bwoaw22WuqzV2mvEmU0cNpQ8dI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyTmKo6cKyIijvIP5p4MMrIjlwz82ThrxSLqG2jedrlb50cMbVhjAqTLgJ87glXWn+zkyakOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c081:: with SMTP id r1mr4846242wmh.76.1561671993623; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:46:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([90.195.195.233]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t15sm239008wrx.84.2019.06.27.14.46.32 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:46:31 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to update ports for portmaster? Message-ID: <20190627224631.32213beb@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CA6F72C25 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.80 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[233.195.195.90.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.82)[ip: (-9.11), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:46:36 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Ben Brink via freebsd-questions wrote: > Hi, > > While trying to install git with: > > portmaster -a > portmaster -D --no-confirm devel/git > > This error occurs: I don't know anything about this particular problem, and I've not used postmaster much, but from when I used portupgrade I found that most build problems that aren't flagged in UPDATING are fixed in a day or so, so the first thing to do is make sure your ports tree is updated. > > I've also tried: > portsnap update > # but it complains that I need to portsnap extract also.. And yet, I > don't want to create voluminous storage.. and have two ports > management systems in use. You can't use ports without a ports tree. portmaster uses the tree, portsnap is one way to update the tree, they do different things. And you can't use portsnap without doing an initial extract. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 27 22:22:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D02315CFC2D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794D074481 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (router.lan [172.30.250.2]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1A833C29; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id C2808187E01; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:16:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: Ben Brink via freebsd-questions Cc: Ben Brink Subject: Re: How to update ports for portmaster? References: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> Reply-To: freebsd-questions Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:16:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> (Ben Brink via freebsd-questions's message of "Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:34:20 +0000 (UTC)") Message-ID: <445zoqhdwv.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 794D074481 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [9.05 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.05)[ip: (0.16), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.10), asn: 7922(0.05), country: US(-0.06)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.22)[0.215,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.79)[0.794,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:22:10 -0000 Ben Brink via freebsd-questions writes: > While trying to install git with: > > portmaster -a > portmaster -D --no-confirm devel/git > > This error occurs: > > htmlxref.cnf doesn't seem to exist in /usr/ports/distfiles//texinfo/6.5. And presumably, it goes on to try to fetch that file, but you don't show what happens when you do. > Apparently, I need to update ports, per this "bug" report[1]. That's not terribly relevant to anything you've shown, but okay, let's assume you have a ports tree that you need to update. > And yet, these don't fix the issue: > > portmaster -af =A0=A0=20 > portmaster --clean-distfiles-all =A0=A0=20 > portmaster --check-port-dbdir =A0=A0=20 > portmaster -Faf=20 None of those are supposed to update your ports tree. At this point, it sounds like needing to update a ports tree isn't what you think the issue *is*. > # and have also tried variations on direct install, like: > portmaster -D --no-confirm print/texinfo =A0=A0=20 And again, you don't describe what you expected to happen *or* what actually did happen, so there's no way to tell you what might work better. We're not psychic. > I've also tried: > portsnap update > # but it complains that I need to portsnap extract also.. And yet, I > don't want to create voluminous storage.. and have two ports > management systems in use. Well, portsnap update doesn't update your ports tree. Only the extract step does that. Do you even have an existing ports tree? It's not clear which the two "ports management systems" you mention are. The pkg(8) database is tracking the installed ports in any case. How did you install portmaster in the first place? > So, what is the system expecting to update ports for portmaster in this c= ase? There are several ways, but the most common are to use portsnap with update followed by extract, or to check out the ports tree with Subversion. I think your fastest path to getting the software you want installed on your system is to go back and read the "Installing Applications: Packages and Ports" chapter of the FreeBSD Handbook again. At the very least, you should be able to ask more sensical questions. [ https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports.html ] Good luck. 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Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([90.195.195.233]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s10sm648273wrt.49.2019.06.27.16.52.42 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:52:38 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to update ports for portmaster? Message-ID: <20190628005238.14f1b65a@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <445zoqhdwv.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> References: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> <445zoqhdwv.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 79B51778AF X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.931,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[233.195.195.90.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.83)[ip: (-9.19), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:52:50 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:16:48 -0400 Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > I've also tried: > > portsnap update > > # but it complains that I need to portsnap extract also.. And yet, I > > don't want to create voluminous storage.. and have two ports > > management systems in use. > > Well, portsnap update doesn't update your ports tree. Only the extract > step does that. Just to be clear, 'portsnap update' does update your ports tree if the tree has previously been initialized with a 'portsnap extract'. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 01:21:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2309A15D44C9 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tekbasse@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic315-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF6D582E99 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tekbasse@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 9B038iAVM1l3lUHRqhmmSQqFj4UUiFAdhYrfH7sSxyHEQmKzf59DFJUXvGkXbZK CDhIMrHFqgO5QlsmbNCM86vUg.nzNuZBVcJPdZVzfcfpD24USAmX5hNvCKL3M1LuT.YmWcwtGyP1 E3pNod0ZHTifrHIwGNP6JOlgaqKRYMI9Q9Vd1c9nJuciaWUtUo2odx5vZP.r7EAj.K3dJOwhLZ9p AJ8uvdrxcnT4CHbuG3AO3wzOily3oVWN4P96xF8ZzdzEGbKQg9xtP2qzdirFKUThnQYEjIOFcjCh jLCDhRfThKL_7ygcILBT26lsJ5WrNSDT1R52nsgr0q9Bt2F7ikWUNHU4dhNi1115N1bY.PY04KGI yRo0r5N3gyRKi1bRlgQm4maZvjtuuHj41IrxC4rF6VeE4XKtOg9Bi7WhZgC4DGF821lh3AjqC4_p YhkpjDshG3CsrATngrFIPiWRseT7F20dmN1p83jyL8sas0AA6c4jEubq2x4Ywb.bKFDzxLX1i1ZG Jr8Wesi_fP4sfsDpWIlByNbMD9SJZWoUio5pp5qewXWUjRM8EIaeL0ogVK.47blzo0X5WrNhzbEa I7RN.XwOgpE1J15Ncv7tK7DxKRQJ7XLWZhXV5euiGG5o9MClwehMv4xAj4l_syI8MKaAiUDn3zvW BwMza7.p44Ersic6doAZFleEPDdYbMhk3phBtnK8QkKsrpRS3GuitBTAW7Fnb4GR.AFp4Qx8jJLj 2eM_4DLVNodv5g0yftWZRjmU306b3Roxjv3UlEiAqdaIsbnwrjZmzpv8HDyzMyYXmZ02OAjtLhYO iSOvDeaZ_.qL029YaC5RMFQqfj_JUtA3u1TXDOq9.djTQT1UnO7ZqNPpX6f_ee89uIc9FTzbQ.9d bksdshuUL49Qja_QfgaDTSIuTSW6h5ZxWhnnn9eEb0jFYo9OWAFNu9Cwy2lN0chOAlEQ2kMwsqbW Nng5TVoMya7ifntiShYl7JrfstvKoxBgO0dgy1B72gF9s.j5mP6WqGQgZsms3Nav2dxPimJQtaYo z6UYu1aTwA9ixqOdQ1.JoUKHt2rBVhMK41SyMunpR5xkxz4SFg2IwsloUyNBX_qDFkrHs4K9kqdn zlC9_sUlAPUWnSegaGncV4YGn5YC3rebvLJ2GR4GlRBDruWtgJt1bpG0YGzvm.R9a4gAGCbYqMqR YXyd5wDaCmBMfsIxRcF7vvvXZSOOy2y._KFScoGCVbKGoS2EySBhXWjuzH5UkTAKRIPcudsvjmox qa_5V6DpR.xWFZ9peayBCVA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:21:18 +0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:11:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Ben Brink To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, RW Message-ID: <1414270395.52662.1561684266029@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190628005238.14f1b65a@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <2135741875.940696.1561667660482.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2135741875.940696.1561667660482@mail.yahoo.com> <445zoqhdwv.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20190628005238.14f1b65a@gumby.homeunix.com> Subject: Re: How to update ports for portmaster? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13913 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:67.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/67.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AF6D582E99 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.84 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.997,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.996,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[31.65.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(1.85)[ip: (7.65), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.93), asn: 36647(0.75), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:21:22 -0000 Thank you. I read the manual and refer to it first, which is why I'm asking= . Context is often implied in the manuals, which I'm very good at missing. This is on an image published by freebsd. The "bug" report explains exactly the symptoms and circumstances I'm dealin= g with. The report concludes that the ports tree needs updated, subsequentl= y, that is my working diagnosis and prognosis. Apparently there's enough of ports on the image that installing portmaster= via make install worked. The status of the ports tree on a new image published by FreeBSD.org is not= clear to me. I must have missed the document that explains it or misunders= tood where it is stated. Thank you again for taking the time to respond with information about what = I should be doing to rebuild, update, or install ports.. ./ben On Thursday, June 27, 2019, 4:54:00 PM PDT, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: =20 =20 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:16:48 -0400 Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > I've also tried: > > portsnap update > > # but it complains that I need to portsnap extract also.. And yet, I > > don't want to create voluminous storage.. and have two ports > > management systems in use.=C2=A0=20 >=20 > Well, portsnap update doesn't update your ports tree. Only the extract > step does that. Just to be clear, 'portsnap update' does update your ports tree if the tree has previously been initialized with a 'portsnap extract'. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 05:27:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E953315D8742 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:27:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 842DC8A3C4 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:27:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.13.22]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mf0Jg-1iEAcZ01ZS-00gVD1; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:17 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xFxf5vTXMp2zSgJgKo8oJ7MdDyr4DN7D6c0jt3ClH6c6MeebK5J gHvJzBdbMx5QIdv19dFh7p8RU1yqsQBi7B+z/bBPlMjTS6NuVSU3cM9LXI/qjie0jRe72kF gCEWis4+z9WATnIXHx4F0DOL1SI025VQLHf6CFGj93ZunBDA2HPidncccDh5cvWkA62/uM8 b5oWBtD/dTCWlwerJqT6g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:jTMvY840FXw=:2RQJdSuZsezwEO5QPZYaR/ bMlDGRnZLOhdE1T8R0O2en9aCIdsfkfV/pgnFFZn122fvQ7wNtM/pEkE7nhrZt4Uc6qWPKNhV LdYp1+8aa9rpkKgSPngHlg+f/42Ooap3vYNiGL48INr7NPtu0w8cRcP6xHZTUAc84VC7wnbG1 9YVo+3kxRnsdbSZkOYCZCwIK7OcEhLH8Zj19wfU+JpF6XmObDdNaXEJ3znwyzpfPW8Ov9bH2P rcokP0xsHrDDxkZ385FwIM7srgewrGZxzVKQEaVYNCQ5TkRp6pAT5I8uG5yH/QD/fpGf/8H79 b0ikjnBk4tiH2vsmHxwnBiDzGGYAOENp5Ted4qHYB4oPXlnPeiQ9ZxgiEyQ0dl+UWUhvDrwdE U6vlvysGoLnwuJn1m1DGidmUAjJsM6exJc5y2c2SUDO+LQfPdJbEJCIGjDYSgexWv3VQeZ/a0 AO9FKTVn9EynLSNxUQu0QJWd9IxGwRCDtCItz8BPnBB8KZtqbMHLC0ig40bBOPj3jMFIrv571 Kf8hfVfJG3Hob+OzBmO/sSmJvMsV8iPBSJ0FhNxpRS2UPobs6IxadDskO3T1GI15rwLdQnalZ h2etHDyv0PRfG54Bajls0K7oGQSss9ZjJuyqTIX7cQT/5CO5FqFKD5BZn+QRrReuV1NeVvGzI vG1mf+197VV7WgHogRZtLGlHpWDbUt9p5X/zUJ5oFICB+rRmHeHoZqpqnv2Khq6rMzI8Mr9+G oeesltdb8ckCLH5afs9o+T1RRyWy+Cbmtjm9NLqUO15k1eJzA2EtwbvmyPc= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 842DC8A3C4 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[22.13.222.94.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.92)[0.924,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.87)[0.870,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[73.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.60)[ip: (0.40), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.46), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:27:36 -0000 On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > Software to rent for artists could be a serious problem. I don't want > the software for free as in beer. I want to buy (pay for it and then > own) the software I want to use, since there are times when I have > money and there are times all I've got to eat, are the wallpapers from > my walls. To do some work, the software to do the work is > needed. If an artist can't pay the rent for the software, the artist > can't do the artwork to earn money. And even if you buy a book, the book will stop working. Repeat: The books will stop working. https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1144011630197522432 The "always online & for rent" doesn't just add financial problems as expressed above, but can also introduce new security pitfalls, plus the "extra pay" you (as the user) provide by allowing the vendor to harvest your usage behaviour and sell that to what I often call their real clients: the advertising industry. And if you don't pay, your data - the art _you_ created - is held hostage until you pay. Or it is "accidentally" lost in which case, as per the EULA, you don't have any rights for compensation. And remember: The books will stop working. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 05:44:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52D015D8D04 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:44:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from vps349.pairvps.com (vps349.pairvps.com [216.92.231.69]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFF928ACED for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (unknown [104.220.39.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by vps349.pairvps.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 993881A249E; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: query re: dual-boot on two separate HDDs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Frank Fenderbender In-Reply-To: <20190626070556.0585d12b.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:44:14 -0700 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: Frank Fenderbender Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20190626070556.0585d12b.freebsd@edvax.de> To: Polytropon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AFF928ACED X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of frankfenderbender@council124.org designates 216.92.231.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=frankfenderbender@council124.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[frankfenderbender@council124.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:cegray.mail.pairserver.com]; HEADER_FORGED_MDN(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[council124.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mailwash31.pair.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.895,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[asn: 7859(-1.02), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7859, ipnet:216.92.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:44:24 -0000 Thanks for the thorough reply. Since then, with the GRUB v2.01 running on Ubuntu 16.04, the issues with = EUFI installed primary OSs allowing the DVD/CD reader to boot has raised = its hydra-head. I have been dealing with this "new" Dell BIOS that = secures 'what is' from 'what can overwrite it" to such a degree that I = may have to get the Dell [factory] installed Ubuntu reinstalled as = non-EUFI so that the legacy boot order becomes truly available, as = modified now, only "BTX halted" error messages come up when either a USB = flash drive or the DVD/CD drive are moved up to number one, above the = primary internal [secured boot] drive. There's some way of doing it but the "usual suspect" Ubuntu and Dell = forums are not "filling in the blanks" as well as a contracted Dell = support person with system takeover can do. The steps that most likely would have worked are as follows.... Do it in this order: 1. Edit your /etc/grub.d/40_custom and add uzsolt's (forum user = whose code is listed below) directives: menuentry "FreeBSD" --class freebsd --class bsd --class = os { insmod ufs2 insmod bsd set root=3D(hd0,1) kfreebsd /boot/kernel/kernel kfreebsd_loadenv /boot/device.hints set kFreeBSD.vfs.root.mountfrom=3Dufs:/dev/ada0s1a set kFreeBSD.vfs.root.mountfrom.options=3Drw set kFreeBSD.hw.psm.synaptics_support=3D1 } Add the directive at the end of the file.=20 Don't delete anything that is in there. 2. Make sure 40_custom is executable. If not then chmod u+x = 40_custom. 3. Now do this to write the changes to grub.cfg. grub2-install /dev/sda=20 os-prober=20 grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg 4. Tada! Reboot now; you should have FreeBSD in your OS list in = GRUB menu. To have access to your UFS partition slice you should do the = following: 1. Edit your kernel configuration to add UFS filesystem and UFS = label. 2. Then make && make_modules your kernel. 3. Install the UFS filesystem software. 4. Mount your UFS Slice under your Linux: /mnt/freebsd && sudo mount -r -t ufs -o ufstype=3Dufs2 = /dev/sda1 /mnt/freebsd Finally, commit the changes sudo grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg So, after the UEFI issue is solved, I will backtrack to the above = solution to see if it "works as advertised". ;-) Hope so. A bg thought... if I could find a way to launch and install of the = non-bootable/non-live FreeBSD v12.0 disk in the disk drive, then maybe I = could bypass the boot-from-drive (refusal of live or bootable disks) = issue. Maybe you (and/or others) have seen this on 2019 Dells, as it is = on the web numerous times w/r/t FreeBSD, and other installs onto = "secured" GRUB2-denying boot-install areas. best, "ff" (chris) On 25-June-2019, at 10:05 PM, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:48:59 -0700, Frank Fenderbender wrote: >> Often, the dual-boot instructions appear to be for a same-drive, >> different partition configuration. >=20 > That is correct, because it seems to be the typical configuration. > Of course, booting from one of two (or more) physical disks is > possible. >=20 > Depending on your hardware, check if the BIOS offers a way to > choose where to boot from at system start-up time. In many cases, > there is a key assigned to this task. I'm not sure this only > covers external media (optical disks, USB drives, network, etc.), > but this could be the easiest way to go. >=20 > I'm mentioning this because I had such a Linux / FreeBSD system > in the past. You could select which drive to boot from, and each > drive had a single-system installation on it, so it would always > boot with the other disk absent. The "funny" thing was: After you > selected one drive from the BIOS to boot from, that disk became > unit 0, whereas the other one became unit 1; it could be accessed > later on from the booted system. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> So, with many well-meaning ways to botch this, I thought maybe >> someone had performed a similar sequence of steps that: >> adds FreeBSD to a second drive >> edits the GRUB/bootloader cfg file(s) >>=20 >> I am uncertain if Grub gets called by the BIOS call to the = bootloader, >> and so, is specific to Ubuntu? >=20 > No GRUB will be called as long as the (default) requirements are > met: First disk, first partition, active, GRUB "branch", GRUB menu; > selection: continue boot from 1st disk -or- "branch" to 2nd disk's > "entry point". The FreeBSD installation on the 2nd disk would > typically contain the regular MBR boot record (no boot menu > required). >=20 > So your GRUB configuration would contain the default settings for > Ubuntu (1st choice -> 1st disk), and an additional entry for FreeBSD > (2nd choice -> 2nd disk). Technically, it doesn't matter that this > is a "real" second disk instead of just a different partition. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I would expect it to be dealing with partition choices on one >> drive, rather than stipulating starting a boot on another drive. >=20 > Doesn't matter, just the device name changes for the "set root=3D" > option. >=20 > Maybe this will provide some inspiration: >=20 > = https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/109272/add-freebsd-to-grub2-boot-= menu/109278 >=20 > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-and-linux-dual-boot.60407/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Am I going to have to change the BIOS (or UEFI) boot order every time >> I want to change which OS comes up when [re]booted? >=20 > Depends. >=20 > First of all, find out if you have a BIOS or a UEFI! :-) >=20 > On the old dual-boot system I had, the "where to boot from" dialog > would come up after POST, and you could press ENTER (choice from last > time was active), or switch over to the other disks. >=20 > This is the task GRUB would be performing in your case. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Isn't there a boot option key that will bring up a simple selection >> menu BEFORE one or another default OS has taken control? >=20 > Yes, many BIOSes (and probably UEFIs, too) have that. It's PF12 in > many cases (but not always - check the documentation of your = mainboard). >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Perhaps smarter firmware? >=20 > Nonsense. This is standard stuff for more than 20 years now. :-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Maybe I could always have BIOS boot from a USB stick that contains >> code to toggle which is going to be considered the primary HDD,=20 >> acting as the director to one of two (or N) primary HDDs? I dunno, >> and reiterate, that I am currently in open eyes and ears mode..... >=20 > This also sounds possible, but inconvenient (as you would have to > make sure boot precedence would always choose that USB stick first, > before attempting to boot from one of the two disks). >=20 >=20 >=20 >> It seems to me that whatever is already sending the boot process >> to one drive, than that is where the change and menu need to exist, >> not on the one drive within its "default" boot OS; I do not want a >> default OS, if possible. I would like my menu to exist 'outside' >> of either (or "any", in the case of 2+ OS boot options) OS and >> internal hard drive. >=20 > But if you choose to use GRUB, that is quite tied to Linux anyway, > so you'll have the "GRUB partition" on the 1st disk (which is the > default load unit) that can then choose what else to boot. You can > conveniently manage its configuration from Linux, while it should > also be possible to do this from FreeBSD - but you don't configure > GRUB several times a day... ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >> This Dell system can handle 4 HDDs, so I could have a data HDD >> for each, keeping the OS drives clean, or add external USB HDDs >> along with two more OS internal HDDs (for instance, adding two >> more platforms as further ways of testing code for = platform-independence, >> such as Project Trident, CentOS, Debian, and/or DragonflyBSD >> added to this and a second workstation). >=20 > GRUB should be totally okay to manage those. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I am not telling Ubuntu's loader to look at a second possibility. >> I guess that what I want is the system's BIOS to provide the menu, >> read the OS boot selection, and load up an OS appropriately? Does >> that sound sane and possible? >=20 > Yes, it does. Check the documentation about whatever you have, if > the support for this feature is there. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> I hope that my understanding of what is/can be done is = near-to-correct, >> and if not, appreciate steps (or a URL) that educates me and shows >> me a path of steps) which provides a near-traceover for setting this >> up. >=20 > You should at least read aboput how the booting is performed, and > which stages are encountered. For FreeBSD, "man 8 boot" provides > a good introduction. It's not much different for Linux, even with > GRUB in the mix, as I simplified (I wouldn't say "explained") a > few paragraphs above. >=20 > It's important that you make sure the "boot chain" toward FreeBSD > is complete (MBR boot sector installed, correct boot partition named, > contains loader, correct root partition named, contains kernel, > and so on). This should be the _default_ way of actions taken by > the installer "bsdinstall". >=20 >=20 >=20 >> If there are 'dual-boot' setup steps before and/or after the FreeBSD >> install, please indicate them, as well as their place in the overall >> sequence.=20 >=20 > There shouldn't be anything surprising... :-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... >=20 Frank frankfenderbender@council124.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 05:53:29 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E997E15D8FC7 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:53:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B83B8B1E3 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:53:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTP id C863C61F83; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:53:12 +0700 (+07) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.ait.ac.th; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received:received :received; s=selector1; t=1561701192; x=1563515593; bh=geHhaKo99 JUR8ySE4WxxRiryUdi9k+kDuptV9mVggfw=; b=ApdhPq2pNDtTcvyahTRj/8ElO CSxD6GyhrI/134t9tgS9vmi6P89BVJUHl6hNFsumxioAhPnrgbiIruEmhOSv0R1D g0+OjRraIKGE6vJu3LM1qbgimTun0/57Nj9U3m53SQ6Z3wFrjIFhg1o8VUIzkfk8 WhlmUp7XyWggRNR2xU= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.ait.ac.th Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id OQzs4VS6krE5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:53:12 +0700 (+07) Received: from banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (banyan.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D17861F82; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:53:12 +0700 (+07) Received: (from on@localhost) by banyan.cs.ait.ac.th (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x5S5rAZ9018241; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:53:10 +0700 (ICT) (envelope-from on@banyan.cs.ait.ac.th) From: Olivier To: Polytropon Cc: ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... In-Reply-To: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> (message from Polytropon on Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:53:08 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2B83B8B1E3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cs.ait.ac.th header.s=selector1 header.b=ApdhPq2p; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cs.ait.ac.th; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th designates 192.41.170.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Olivier.Nicole@cs.ait.ac.th X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.85 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cs.ait.ac.th:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-3.17)[ip: (-8.38), ipnet: 192.41.170.0/24(-4.19), asn: 4767(-3.35), country: TH(0.09)]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.cs.ait.ac.th]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cs.ait.ac.th:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[cs.ait.ac.th,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[16.170.41.192.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.970,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4767, ipnet:192.41.170.0/24, country:TH]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RBL_COMPOSITE_RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED_DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:53:29 -0000 Polytropon writes: > The "always online & for rent" But hey, if you buy your software, you mat also decide that the one you bought 10 years ago is still plenty enough for what you do and you don't need to buy upgrades. The very few times I need to launch Word, it is a version of 2003, bought in 2003, never paid anything since. What puzzle me even more is people accepting to buy their cars through leasing: you pay every month, for 3 years, and at the end of the 3 years period, you have... nothing. While it may make sense for a business (fix cost every month, if the business stop its business, it has no car left, but a dead business needs no car), it makes no sense for individuals. And it makes even less sens for something like software that will not stop working or loose its functionalities with time. It's sounds like you are offering to lease me a hammer and the only real reason is that you will charge more at the end and I will get a hammer with a different colour handle each year. Olivier -- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 06:10:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A23415D9276 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:10:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from vps349.pairvps.com (vps349.pairvps.com [216.92.231.69]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0941F8B612 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:10:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frankfenderbender@council124.org) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (unknown [104.220.39.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by vps349.pairvps.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D9391A1145; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: query re: dual-boot on two separate HDDs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Frank Fenderbender In-Reply-To: <5146512.8gLySxXtyI@amd.asgard.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:09:57 -0700 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <37655A7A-FD94-42C2-AC53-6F6EC7F2F38E@council124.org> References: <5146512.8gLySxXtyI@amd.asgard.uk> To: freebsd01@dgmm.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0941F8B612 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of frankfenderbender@council124.org designates 216.92.231.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=frankfenderbender@council124.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:cegray.mail.pairserver.com]; HEADER_FORGED_MDN(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[council124.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mailwash31.pair.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.878,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[asn: 7859(-1.01), country: US(-0.06)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7859, ipnet:216.92.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:10:06 -0000 Thanks Dave. The methods I used on the older BIOSes (for boot sequence re-ordering) = on HP/Dell systems no longer works with the UEFI-based BIOS that new = DEll system deploy. It's like when I could no longer work on my car w/o factory- and = dealership-only tools. There is a push to make working on your own computer "off limits", as = noted in emails I received from by FreeGeek.org (Portland, OR) in their = "Right to Repair Campaign" (https://repair.org/stand-up).=20 FreeGeek converts donated PCs (and components) to minimum-leveled = Debian-based systems and sells them for $50, donates them to free-access = busineses, and gives them to people who volunteer 20-hours for work in = one or more phases of the whole process.=20 I do not know if this is one of those cases, but the result is the same = when documentation does not explain workarounds. If the goal is security, then telling a workaround defeats the securing, = right? However, if the change makes purchased system owners insecure, well, = then, I'd say that that had inadequate QA, Beta testing, and = owner-viewable documentation. Whatever, it is an unnecessary barrier to = what once was working and easy to achieve. Just what is being secured? = Is me actually using "my" system considered a security breach or threat?=20= Anyway, the F5, F11, and F12 keys now all go to an EUFI-secured BIOS = that has hard-to-enable (disabled) "legacy" BIOS optioning ROMs. Even following the cyber-acorns of some who claim success, the process = gets messed-with by the default UEFI ROMs, which, prevent both USB and = disk boot-ups. The mindfulness of this "securing" is not very = well-documented by Dell, and so, it will take some support-call research = to discover the currently-secret success at adding a second OS to either = the same or a second internal or external HD. thanks again, chris On 26-June-2019, at 06:32 AM, Dave wrote: > On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 04:48:59 BST Frank Fenderbender wrote: >> I am adding the FreeBSD 12 install to the 2nd hard drive. >> Often, the dual-boot instructions appear to be for a same-drive, = different partition configuration. >> I give each OS its own [whole] drive, in an attempt to assist in the = avoidance of segmentation faults, corruptions, performance hits, and the = like, often used by data, applications, and OS slam-dancing, as in a = crowded "mosh pit". >>=20 >> So, with many well-meaning ways to botch this, I thought maybe = someone had performed a similar sequence of steps that: >> adds FreeBSD to a second drive >> edits the GRUB/bootloader cfg file(s) >>=20 >> I am uncertain if Grub gets called by the BIOS call to the = bootloader, and so, is specific to Ubuntu? >> I would expect it to be dealing with partition choices on one drive, = rather than stipulating starting a boot on another drive.=20 >=20 > Since it's going to involve a keypress or two anyway, a quick'n'dirty = "fix might be to use the BIOS boot menu, usually accessed from a Fn key = at boot time when the BIOS logo/info screen is displayed. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 Frank frankfenderbender@council124.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 08:14:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2D815DB9CF for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic301-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic301-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B109F8E9BF for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: utbHX.AVM1m7Ex_86i0uRyLmhrEZr5RUstTem__SuFAqr8APBh554NLZwYFasG9 .YwsNIQFg7cL2bqYfkYNHnLhNeMM5tP4FkMT802xGMMZMKdArK_jAVrqDUlewRaxQ_B3pRiGxZ91 yWIi2dZqphhgsdHm_VjyeVmrW9lVgPDHuhopj2brRObL2C5_kpqqLGTu8HWoX0bBYZpm4Z.yiDBL 93QTh.7vTdZXSyspEDnCerIojaIu7_jRiMz2OJYHXCAzmCZLzqafIod_1b3lIuRM3penGkW76RWG UIJGq0cfcMZLbhv0r7UGMXyj2PIZSv4ItjJFGpdWMy5noUBbFg2IDWnHu2KneGyzBH_85pCo5eEh vR1ruMQpqPk8Usx6ZhZbJGvkPNPPQ9r5m5gMTwdY4tZRW6dlILqlC3EQ0Gh9BlYqxZf0h51DMDGr AB_UFPV9Tp1tNt1.H_fCDOzaOpTy13kC4r8.Q1GOXo1l.cqCoHf.bwcXF1FCo5rcMu1YSyJVbrku IW0_v.baAw9onMWuWz6KKQ0B2wsbOjIFcIn7U_8GaHIAeVPbgkZek.A94obAhBGJZaQXuOnPEOeS 5cYTvQnZOf454C0kH_IaRoDKCo0TgU5yM4mRExB.g9.CyIWpTXz2m5NgXtx3TqAzXXboETUAPJ5z Dqv7Z5Tzg0onKb9TDqUPF5H1ubbBpTJaJmmU4dm0FX0DCTp6oLUyXOOVCPImB1IDfNd6k6y.xQRi eqsVcd2Xv1LsYik2Ed4d2u5hyIS.pw7Jlt.jmax8qFqQtNJDR_UUiuYPS3Sg15xg6Ys4ky0vlbrn OpwM7zydwNmTRmxBqBOqWn6QlUSAJ9K7_ZWpy6vAdcZUFZ9xGEbPwqhfVQqbhx8S993.6mTCHpVM sQdft9sRwyJnvXSDWj4YgeVU7UA.Kj9lRIupl0fOgMtwewU1GlK.358jk8lCdthzNXeXaiGcn.rA KHuh3ZuCAiFLMO0vty.OuurA6ZFTELyg.RhdPF3jO5dkZ6rHHmg9yKCLHalsyb7C8uaFR9vXD_.0 S651I.IPPp0mYXpay8kes6mKUTv_Hx9E3XSgSR_VU0Eb.D6LAq3tYnvUBYN.td7aOqESXkCVJSC_ vkEwX4vJrX.J._3RDgpeasWSBSORl72cvJ_qiC_12pkEIKGWjB_EoraJCJkzHHUcokhwxlAg1h8p Q4cskzS35C0JAw3t0ruf2O70eM4dMwQUnw4TFNUF2_iR1mKJ8SIECRl.tWSrOT.AEEQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:21 +0000 Received: from x4e31604e.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([78.49.96.78]) by smtp403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cd9d0d5422b218877d887d4c173c079e for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:18 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:14:17 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628101417.2df36e86@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B109F8E9BF X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.48 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.96.49.78.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.79)[0.793,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.92)[0.924,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(2.31)[ip: (7.32), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.41), asn: 34010(1.89), country: GB(-0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.959,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.176.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.176.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:25 -0000 Hollywood, Panavision does not sell cameras, they rent the cameras. A rent model could be ok for gear with mechanical parts that require maintenance work. A rent model could be ok, if you need every 10 years a hammer, for just one day. A rent model could be ok, if I need a book for a week. A rent model could be ok, for online software, that needs security updates. If I need a book for ever, because I like to add hand written notes. I will pay for the book and I expect that I always have got access to the book. I don't want a cloud service, I just want to draw pictures and produce music and I want to store the data at home. I expect that the apps and the operating system don't have serious bugs and if there should be bugs, I expect to get repair work for free as in beer. I'm willing to buy the software, I'm willing to buy new features, I don't need security updates for software, that is not security related. I expect that access to everything humans need is as much socially acceptable as possible. "Needed" is more than just what humans need to stay alive. It's unfortunately impossible to give away everything for free. However, if somebody works to get a piano, maybe a virtual software piano, nobody should come and take the piano away, when the owner becomes a retired person, unable to continue paying the rent for the piano. It should be possible to buy the piano or virtual piano, so that it is possible to continue using it in less good times. We know what speculator whim has done to rental prices for shelter. In Germany a lot of persons on average wage are already unable to pay for their apartment. Nowadays it is nearly impossible to get layout markers, screen tone and all that material anymore, the world changed, it is replaced by software. If you provide software and rent software layout markers, software screen tone etc. you might think it's the same as it was for paying for real markers etc., but no it isn't, we still need to pay for the hardware, you still need to replace tips of tablet pencils etc., you even need to replace hardware that is still working, because support gets dropped. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 10:42:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEC115DE85E for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EDF26C74A for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:42:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id n3so3500606ybn.0 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:42:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=AACCAI4gPYcaNFK7DqOXIwT7bqM+pvBgrLfSYCKmsWE=; b=U7yAu9sYtjfchti4CHPibBPEe+zQRbSZ5iHmwAsGvb/kI5nRA6+ywj6cpL+idSBmnm gFYRcjQ0PmnOkGf1j9ro1UT7efP5wtVgGfh/alfIoKQFWlRF2dIvIXl8afsQONAa19em hQbjrlUXkWKKWCb/Wxx8UBCyqcFTLLkVyZwUE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=AACCAI4gPYcaNFK7DqOXIwT7bqM+pvBgrLfSYCKmsWE=; b=k2YqMqv4odLWoMQyZMG0GZ5ph4k5qsFP3UeFYH/ADwifBuVOfMCfSOkS6shC/xrcNk R4UJcflheMWyV3TeOcr4H7bd62gGMcnGAwz44VdG4BwWmtiMaqU1xUtV6hDcf3PbDA1q 1Kssdd88Zzn5ItDK3TIIZ/hvMn2JxESj+OpQ3aUd3G8hkjOyOmUwAZL+5gA2zctLG1t/ QMUqvZ1gGS1VXnB3NLO0E/qB2QlcKdhtX9gtAG74MoDXh2caCDhCm3oIJltVkyPRadam v5VnPhFB6YA5mB2I2SIcwh9h+ZY9wUY1d4XBmLsv8wO8I76ff54mkeZANi2d7PxG2+4M SHgg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWnthrKR8I4tXYJxx89KDQjwpsVAGnxVnD3Dw532fwY6KutNpn8 BMNzryHpvBkfUiw860jF7z5vaq7jAvg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwnaaW9BhH8yqwyBQumNi93JBWS8NrPgcVPT8nepuhtjhUng+Txxs4IWFWR8DJ9s9FTdhB/9g== X-Received: by 2002:a25:7554:: with SMTP id q81mr6058690ybc.344.1561718575363; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 204sm391930ywl.55.2019.06.28.03.42.53 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ZtdT0dpLz3Fxv for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/HPW0TzhnkkMVTPJO/iGu4C6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5EDF26C74A X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=U7yAu9sY; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.55 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.985,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.95)[ip: (-9.25), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.13), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.b.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:42:57 -0000 --Sig_/HPW0TzhnkkMVTPJO/iGu4C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200, Polytropon stated: >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions >wrote: >> Software to rent for artists could be a serious problem. I don't want >> the software for free as in beer. I want to buy (pay for it and then >> own) the software I want to use, since there are times when I have >> money and there are times all I've got to eat, are the wallpapers >> from my walls. To do some work, the software to do the work is >> needed. If an artist can't pay the rent for the software, the artist >> can't do the artwork to earn money. =20 > >And even if you buy a book, the book will stop working. >Repeat: The books will stop working. > >https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1144011630197522432 > >The "always online & for rent" doesn't just add financial problems >as expressed above, but can also introduce new security pitfalls, >plus the "extra pay" you (as the user) provide by allowing the >vendor to harvest your usage behaviour and sell that to what I >often call their real clients: the advertising industry. And if >you don't pay, your data - the art _you_ created - is held hostage >until you pay. Or it is "accidentally" lost in which case, as per >the EULA, you don't have any rights for compensation. > >And remember: The books will stop working. :-) Your analogy is seriously flawed on so many levels. For instance, I purchased 5.25=E2=80=9D floppy discs 30 years ago with programs that I cann= ot now get to run on any modern OS, and that is assuming I locate a 5.25=E2=80= =9D drive. I won=E2=80=99t even bother discussing 8-inch (203 mm) media. Times change, you must learn to accept it. Documents created with either Adobe due not suddenly =E2=80=9Cstop=E2=80=9D= working if you cancel your lease. They are fully available with either a stand-alone version of Adobe or with a program capable of open PDFs. I know because I have done it; plus, it states so on Adobe=E2=80=99s web site. Nothing created by the user ceases to work. In Adobe, you have the option of opting out of allowing Adobe to harvest your data. There are two options, one to collect your usage data and another to collect program data should it crash. I see no legitimate reason to opt out of the latter, but that is an individual decision to make. Both Adobe=E2=80=99s and Microsoft=E2=80=99s new business model of leasing = software has proven successful. Customers like the fact that the software is kept up-to-date, and the cost of the product has declined dramatically. In the case of Microsoft, their Office 365 HOME offers six products, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, One Note, Outlook, Publisher, Access, 60-minutes of Skype, and 1TB Cloud Storage. At $99.99 for five separate installations with up to 6 users, that works out to less than $20 per install for over, at retail, a $1000 of software. There are multiple plans, of course. For families with kids in school, who want an economical solution, who need products that are universally accepted in both academic and business environments, it is a great deal. Also, If you don't renew, the software goes into "reduced functionality mode" in which you can view and print documents, but you can't edit existing ones or create new ones. Nothing is erased or hidden. You seem to enjoy spreading =E2=80=98FUD=E2=80=99 here Poly. Leasing softwa= re is not the perfect business plan for all users; however, in many cases, it fits into their business model perfectly. In some cases, like mine, it works out as a nice tax deduction, although a small one. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/HPW0TzhnkkMVTPJO/iGu4C6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl0V7yMACgkQOHMGOIfe xWTHAggAw+r9h7MGyWnm23xLQRP/cpKsef91QyL1hUwgAjvYyqwb/0zN40+5TTHq tfBQbHaHoG52x3UefCbrMA31pHOGVC0WRwKtnJPJe+U4zIEFr1gHhGjj6SZ0iSiL 0+fcR7ek+8F4yrcBez1FMmxsDmYQIuUkCnB6kfyeIuUz8NHg5LxCmHDJJILrdKno IrtWMCpyN5PHjjpjXzSMpBzIB5XqwYe8BJe6XgptW/cPvHWhpKznklslwKFQeU49 DNTBi6HrV/yH+cxqIQ9A6yRy5d1LrbVo1f7VnLXDMKO3I6dF22a2/VKAmg05mPPb 5NbKc88AVWKunDQfez+7YGT9zSeXDQ== =tB6z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/HPW0TzhnkkMVTPJO/iGu4C6-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 11:17:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD6615DF5CB for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:17:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E398B6D83F for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:17:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.13.22]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MkYkI-1iQIUz0zqY-00m1Sa for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:17:11 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:17:11 +0200 From: Polytropon To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-Id: <20190628131711.f6b0638c.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:szzgcAPxi3k97EL6skeEp8O5IHrvlO1Wa91rlLic6eK12jK8BhF uRrwNcMXedUX66X8sbwfykCYMDtbPZtkjGQ4snoccOGEEGU9xj17kRPJzZJVGmRl22sI202 fUJnfbk0OwTVVY8diAK0GxGZYJ9rB8hoab7VqZSBwXtbW89fwTPgXdtm5CRbdoT9198oBqo yN8de8QbzEWJpv5PkX80w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:wiUsXSPvZnA=:TCn8Mdh3kEGL6AktezJA3u CNRmIWMHp9Ve9oF/OKGTxL5mLqb298EWhKjqcQugm7YrfzBjNzMO7EOiX0NlSIPN2r3HuVSQr USiMJo91tJ85BcZD/kIdIHYxDhCWIg6yV5QQPN8ps5CDy9gqvMtLPTIPiLDXWsw4V6OJLIftT dV1HaVYvtlNflbdhVCT8X8yhprWh/TVsiaj6O1NeNqN8kEYOTyars6cXhL8eD1dPoakgooT31 ICaXpMfHicmRyAumKTOGFcLtXhS5val6ttiHKV6BXzaieW15vY7GX6mkoCn/7BtQvXGgb3jdZ 7KigI7HPy42OI2c2ZA39/4AFBFZJ5aka19RbXh/o/YD5tHPRgdG72OmqzWN5rCHi4018cI/Dt WnQfQutsYyQe+05Czi5RagXsOCoIUnjv6ThxNe9wOS5SazCZym8TwFKnMhFsEPZXt33HsuZGP QHCRfMBCe+lOCJRhQlsNsMz6OMx0BU+4SrnAR4ybejh4iLElhFdXTk+aSjeSoBdQU2+lvP3lu MdOCIBZ59Cs4KQj0IsEQ5w86ZTgsh0gZN+n8CUVYtVw9MdBfYscuimdwoLJd9ZeIzVfZK0Ymo bP7G66+UG+Z+WVtOe2e1u/3Dhllb0WNSN3ThGPwqjy0y5EIqr/QSQaTaB/5mutX+T6oyPKKNK xfSjnflO+plMXYkFS7fMdDdKcYe5iR9VTuJ/VD297K9B02oYhKu50p6lI3yn9yzKIg0HZwBdW 1qgQIX0o4JMi7sT0g1weqSx+aPCu1s4WRa1D8qGmrE7k6wY26DcZRs2Idkw= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E398B6D83F X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.59 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.02)[-0.025,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[22.13.222.94.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.84)[0.840,0]; IP_SCORE(0.38)[ip: (0.85), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.39), asn: 8560(2.46), country: DE(-0.01)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:17:21 -0000 On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200, Polytropon stated: > >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions > >wrote: > >> Software to rent for artists could be a serious problem. I don't want > >> the software for free as in beer. I want to buy (pay for it and then > >> own) the software I want to use, since there are times when I have > >> money and there are times all I've got to eat, are the wallpapers > >> from my walls. To do some work, the software to do the work is > >> needed. If an artist can't pay the rent for the software, the artist > >> can't do the artwork to earn money. > > > >And even if you buy a book, the book will stop working. > >Repeat: The books will stop working. > > > >https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1144011630197522432 > > > >The "always online & for rent" doesn't just add financial problems > >as expressed above, but can also introduce new security pitfalls, > >plus the "extra pay" you (as the user) provide by allowing the > >vendor to harvest your usage behaviour and sell that to what I > >often call their real clients: the advertising industry. And if > >you don't pay, your data - the art _you_ created - is held hostage > >until you pay. Or it is "accidentally" lost in which case, as per > >the EULA, you don't have any rights for compensation. > > > >And remember: The books will stop working. :-) > > Your analogy is seriously flawed on so many levels. For instance, I > purchased 5.25” floppy discs 30 years ago with programs that I cannot > now get to run on any modern OS, and that is assuming I locate a 5.25” > drive. I won’t even bother discussing 8-inch (203 mm) media. Times > change, you must learn to accept it. You're comparing physical to nonphysical items, as well as short-term and long-term. This is flawed twice. Additionally, you're refering to OS environments that do no longer exist. If you have the urgent need to "keep alive" hardware and software from many decades ago, there probably is a good reason for it, maybe some software that costed $$$$$ and needs to interface with some specific old hardware that still runs and needs to keep running. I'm saying this because I have a few of those "museum cases" where things just need to be "kept alive", because there simply is no alternative that is technically or financially viable. Because _some_ things do _not_ change. > Documents created with either Adobe due not suddenly “stop” working if > you cancel your lease. They are fully available with either a > stand-alone version of Adobe or with a program capable of open PDFs. I > know because I have done it; plus, it states so on Adobe’s web site. > Nothing created by the user ceases to work. You have probably misinterpreted what I tried to say: With the "lease model", non-local storage can be the key problem if you fail to pay. Creation and output is only possible through the program itself, be it a stand-alone installation or an online version. As long as someone else is involved, and you do not store your stuff locally (with _any_ program being able to get access to it), the moment you fail to pay can be the moment your works are gone. > In Adobe, you have the option of opting out of allowing Adobe to > harvest your data. There are two options, one to collect your usage > data and another to collect program data should it crash. I see no > legitimate reason to opt out of the latter, but that is an individual > decision to make. It is. Reality shows that such decision making isn't always easy, because the corresponding controls are hidden, buried on some sub-dialog or preference page. The default, in my opinion, should be to make the decision at the first run of the software, with the standard value being "no data transmitted". Giving away your data for free (!) should be an active decision, not something you need to express your dissent later on. > Both Adobe’s and Microsoft’s new business model of leasing software has > proven successful. Customers like the fact that the software is kept > up-to-date, and the cost of the product has declined dramatically. Depends. For example, most of my customers are complaining that updates break their workflow, slow down operations, and cause hardware to stop working ("Scanner has stopped working after update, please help!" or "My screen looks all funny, right after the reboot the update caused."). Some of them even do not perform those updates in fear something would break. This is of course a problem from a security point of view. But you probably know this from corporate installations where updates are not performed in an O(n) manner on individual PCs running home version of "Windows", but instead the whole process is controlled by the IT department. Even in such cases, important updates are _not_ done because they need some internal review and excessive testing, and if someone says, "This will break the functionality of our software module X version Y, we can't do this update.", the update is also _not_ done. Don't get me started about corporate IT security... ;-) Regarding costs: Recently I had a client complain about the software they were using. They changed from a yearly fee, let's just pretend $200, to a quarterly fee of $80. And $80 is less than $200, right? Plus, there is no installation media anymore, you need to download the software at your own costs (time and transfer volume, because that particular customer only has slow Internet, which hasn't been a problem before). So: No, it's not always cheaper. But I completely agree with your statement regarding home users. As they don't control their smartphones and tables, why should they control their computers which are no longer PCs (_their_ personal computers)? Smartphone OS updates come in automatically, are installed without much interaction; tablet software gets its updates, new version is available without big trouble. Security holes are dealt with in a quick manner, as it should be. Given that a significant amount of spam, DDoS trouble etc. is generated from home PCs running "Windows" versions which aren't patched properly, automated (and let me just say "forced") updates are a good solution. And nothing requires the user to have any kind of knowledge about how a computer works, what an operating system is or why security matters to everyone. > In > the case of Microsoft, their Office 365 HOME offers six products, Word, > Excel, PowerPoint, One Note, Outlook, Publisher, Access, 60-minutes of > Skype, and 1TB Cloud Storage. At $99.99 for five separate installations > with up to 6 users, that works out to less than $20 per install for > over, at retail, a $1000 of software. And you get almost the same for free with LibreOffice, plus it will open files that "Office 365" has stopped supporting many years ago, plus you can store in standardized document formats, plus you can output to PDF directly, and so on, and you can use the same program on any platform and OS. ;-) > Leasing software is not > the perfect business plan for all users; however, in many cases, it > fits into their business model perfectly. In some cases, like mine, it > works out as a nice tax deduction, although a small one. I won't disagree here. In the past, renting both hardware and software has been a typical construct, and of benefit for the users. This changed with the age of personal computers, and changed back with the dawn of mobile computing, I would say. Of course there is no "one size fits all". -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... 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Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:19:50 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hw.ncpu changes after recent updates Message-ID: <20190628111950.GB9574@mon.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190627143034.GA9574@mon.zyxst.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.0 (2019-05-25) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 83FA56D907 X-Spamd-Bar: --------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm3 header.b=hIV6GYUT; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=bDW2JpzJ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 66.111.4.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-9.11 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zyxst.net:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; 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charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 06:57:12PM +0400, Antranig Vartanian wrote: >Hi J. > >Hyper-Threading[1] is a technology which allows running two threads on one >core, however since Intel had multiple security issues, many people have >turned it off, not sure you did that manually or has been changed during an >update. > >so yes, if you had ncpu=3D8 before, now it should be 4 :) Hi, many thanks for clarifying. --=20 J. --CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl0V98wACgkQs8o7QhFz NAVBWxAAokcPVY4vrOC9guCxSQNYev2IhhvIQjwNHSGmOUBSFEAP021GqjxRzkz+ FghAqrlBSPe3EpDG5Bb1b3Kg0zF30cIDDCOQ1HgaSBDOZ9HZNuMDj6+jxP+jpys2 mJPIF0YbHl0MVbZt2s8bA29Iv1SXtVjsM5nBXXuq68rgeY6HGAVn/DqxdlKHXe6U +9cyE1CFF71d5HrGu+y1f7UZFZUlZkJ2p3W5im4+b07Fs9v+s1/1O44jPzWn88tF qWw5bsmgPyWcKIxc6FIRaQz+ICCd5qhKkt16vv63shiYQlZzVYYjuriJDhdR7Pkx vV8jI7CbPuGPQA8g+nO4p58ajBz65TYDc+SfglQMiNFo8nGynjx9Plz1JAke2gQ9 DHHif0J7YLOaQNngzDLjoxk6bb34kdcYE5gCodZXhyTPOJHeQjm/d1GDzUMWROzC RO81EJGzXVv3VKz0G0UD0VtkWM0jWRBWt96BPhfGqyV1EYcfgzScdfxw89lHrVF7 cLcKiEIA4kMXLtvFoKXMpmRJzGiNwaFpjB7Bx/OSOzFRU/e8dr75kdPWqRCxuK8f p9vux6z8EU67WAOU0SsZHXXS4euRG7BdAdM6EYOxMt8skXVuVw7gwY2nhyTABlQt QJjjIzjemnBRPKzfM2xnCyHJUK5UyF1+UWQIffpreUszeWuuL7o= =55Ni -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CUfgB8w4ZwR/yMy5-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 11:25:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721515DF950 for ; 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NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.880,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:25:42 -0000 SGksDQoNCg0KSSBhbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gaW5zdGFsbCBGcmVlQlNEIDEyIGFtZDY0IG9uIG15IGRl c2t0b3AgUEMuIER1cmluZyB0aGUgDQppbnN0YWxsLCB0aGUgc2V0dXAgc3VkZGVubHkgY3Jhc2hl ZCBhbmQgc2h1dCBkb3duIChvciByZXN0YXJ0ZWQpIHRoZSANCm1hY2hpbmUuIEkgdHJpZWQgaW5z dGFsbGluZyBhIHNlY29uZCB0aW1lLg0KDQoNClRoZSBzZWNvbmQgaW5zdGFsbCB3YXMgc3VjY2Vz c2Z1bCwgYnV0IHRoZW4gSSBzdGFydGVkIGdldHRpbmcgOg0KDQoNCnZtX2ZhdWx0IC0gUGFnZSBS ZWFkIEVycm9yDQoNCg0Kd2hpbGUgdXNpbmcgdGhlIFBDLg0KDQoNCkl0IGFsbW9zdCBjZXJ0YWlu bHkgbG9va3MgbGlrZSBteSBoYXJkd2FyZSBpcyBjcmFwcGluZyBvdXQuIEkgcmFuIG15IDhHQiAN ClJBTSB0aHJvdWdoIG1lbXRlc3Q4NiwgYW5kIGl0IHdlbnQgdGhyb3VnaCBhIGNvbXBsZXRlIHBh c3Mgd2l0aG91dCBhbnkgDQplcnJvcnMuDQoNCg0KSSBuZWVkIGhlbHAgZnJvbSB0aGUgbGlzdCB0 byBmaWd1cmUgb3V0IHdoaWNoIHBhcnRzIG9mIG15IGhhcmR3YXJlIGNvdWxkIA0KcG9zc2libHkg YmUgZmF1bHR5Lg0KDQoNCkFueSBhZHZpY2Ugd291bGQgYmUgZ3JlYXRseSB3ZWxjb21lLg0KDQoN ClRoYW5rcyAmIFJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCk1hbmlzaCBKYWluDQoNCg0K From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 11:29:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19C715DFA94 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic304-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic304-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 272A06DE92 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: KOMnCboVM1k1xYFc.wbGV5NvFnwyhr0yys3tcI6h_3_0R1t8GNgF2pmdANmQRMt 4fbI1T2bWqnROrHy4QD_IRS6SUIQlqQAqVLmaJWF0dbVArs2Wgh3BcjpDgSJ2HXxKiYaJfHArnyK SxjYjhB0VmROyBZ6Aw5xFzDEjmO0kf6VXvGLGXHKMOWgkKlNosCNUhg3x1pGOnwwwzk7HTLxcoJh 5QpGkVxvxRLpWGWJ37I8pSfETcN7XJShne.lSCtH2FUN8.FPxyO2N8F3jtN_6dCHGFKRxRRqo1Qb s.pREfgaAcxfimUUA2E1lwzmLj4wvz.OnOP7XPJAiZ1jE2l7vGseBaTLOTyHf9fHR8cB9FlslNoA DmHmj1ksKWQ2nyN9Lfg8t797fJl4q7S7TWSmQr5SX8IyWSPNCe3e6wQlBfde.vNssiPOXuHy.daI OcEldyEEEqErBfioIaFpMdWHBlVmBSjELl.VcGHlUIDbA5TQCin537D42lizUUwoSUPREsZa7kL5 F4xR6tvW4i_5HnMkEEeesmca7YOW9x3C13WK7HhRT50kgiD_uiR.MWEluGA4hFo8UtGXFoNBU5XQ JWbuLMQ6cuNTC7ZQNHLaStNSGb7u4GgyuLsbzW8YXXo2GPCiRcHPi6sc6v7nT6M6hAAL2GzNb5UN QvhmisndWiYj5ISjOIZTWc6R3udu0Yea9JG75nnKEdQY42bqBPhWtf0a7Nbqvh34oGd88NQ.LWBT lAo4j9JGJjEKkWlpmpR7qogjP.KDV9hPhQDAPYBjPZg2es.IoQwFoXzb20Okhak2IsPYvQ_y1O1l 4HMKEnQqWCWHKQIgW6MuR68Vec8kYwcTtNFOVQ9GNCpY7NMt0UUIUgCt1CWMREMC8utErYp30RFH 1AmIx9zZ6r4s1bCVAOmIu.cTZpoKr60s64p7Ls.KcQcabnL1.9VakQFn_AG.hb.69bGvKFmNbjaW eahzwqzpvYsfVf00dt6ue.baOK6ksG18NKaBCe4_HomqFdaw9lZeh32TzsJXBaCd_dezYxv6aWkW oJPB2etTfmCG77aSzmdctmg7ePStfmOnPzAiIV.B0RvF3oAJD67hOMl8uzi7EP4EODHE0rwsLMY3 YknSEWBye5NByaQ03I8X0VA.EnaQh1JNjW0siP1YsfvKOqkeCkxRjh1NeGK2DvkYUe7RM7Fne.1i ljXKkpp7n9IgNxTIHGqDyNiWLUbGChrIrP3qy2HIqXRF6RPwTELaVBmsWkEKEvjGbgwU- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:16 +0000 Received: from x4e31604e.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([78.49.96.78]) by smtp409.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c94fd8be42adaf3821fcaf31e4ef7770 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:29:15 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628132915.7a4d9e85@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 272A06DE92 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.89 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.96.49.78.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(1.85)[ip: (5.04), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.41), asn: 34010(1.89), country: GB(-0.09)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.79)[0.792,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.82)[0.817,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.93)[0.934,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[147.179.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:21 -0000 On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400, Jerry wrote: >Both Adobe=E2=80=99s and Microsoft=E2=80=99s new business model of leasing= software has >proven successful. Among Artists on iOS the licensing model is unaccepted and there are a lot of very good, inexpensive apps available users don't need to rent. With the new iPadPro it's already possible to replace a lot of apps that required a desktop PC or a laptop a while back. I only need to do a minority of my artwork on a desktop PC and what I still need to do on the desktop PC, could be done with free as in beer FLOSS. It might not work for everybody, some people still might need proprietary software on a desktop PC, but probably they could use old software to do this. By the way everybody accepts that software bought 25 years ago can't be used today. It's also accepted that from time to time an update needs to be bought, as long as it doesn't become a hidden rent model. Instead of rent out the software, vendors could sell new plugins, to get money for new work, instead of selling something again and again without really providing something. A vendor is free to offer special licensing models for schools and companies, but enforcing a licensing model that is useful for schools and companies to very small businesses and private users is just a rip-off. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 11:45:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367AB15DFF8C for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:45:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic303-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic303-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AE716E5ED for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:45:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: 4f1MMUEVM1nm_vfNNDJadleDw.gSSR8hn.jKHCJ5nziPJcEnGkZ_2jbolF9Iec6 9BVwfB.IDbdTCMyuGQameZUaQjeGeGwmQFBP3qUvSXuO8udNtuepf0ZgA6hsATak4ps3E7gnLfLz J40I9wdCj2Msfyov60Bl4z_AACQGl15DxyWkOgOtzgUfLBDOg5uFOV7otEWjakvBER3C98EaH6VB 6IKBO_KE.v8N1DibgcB2iPtiois1AY4BM.2dhjvsbNuKwW358sD2XsRkFqTwBBAXDOpRMtNWQ4Bd wdJOpD9I4wlGRC7Ac3tNiIx8VPWDJCd5cAwhc_LklfrojucDS89UklVPBrShmTB4UygN9aoVAHCq .it4IPq1segSMnvjh8.BzPkHgaRoV.jeBu9.1Hi2uSbFSw.AkZi22zVYHiSYmhTzHvVsl5ZKUfY6 _4CPhzObQOPpcQBt8tprNFDskfyygYR.Y5MV4dWB_gvE_nzFeXMOQtw7wdQIx2mqW67TsT0P9z.O NzWk6tdFy9tGB0YDSN9nsiFjkDPvicd4mcFm33h324FM2dCnmmaKTeq3e7LKWgm7dQ0b2d9.nNrx UG1XHSbkX.pIUJP2ZfxazScjky94NRGxyjsWX.482BU7c6ExXvw4h9tat7UE4PQU8G3RzV7GUtOH t5ilSLhbOyVQkiSDJnZyY4lI_iX7_eb6UMh6oRGfubvykA1Pta37hxjvqpqWd2EQOdB7SOwKKccn OVzYu679Hp4kpQmLB.Rhlr_vbFO_cVruosQNLEDfN6kw0nOhoMWMvNc4GcWO35Upp0iofMsZ4WB9 9S3cO7x.HzZPARhAXARNRBMQuT_EJl7rfAsXAfC0iBMw3IdMqjiVxHgfNQtNZ6PO8XtArrEYw3io M4WdEicxXSHFfB_A1mbuzA0is3wxnzkOKQQ6tkvw1fIe2fWdAoA5ANQR8Qq7o.aYIJGLIXrc4dRw .nKiUJT3_wYonhVkgSp22A41L4S6ymMovaIRAJcJwcoL6PJBmkTmnFzyZ1c4Y2DQhVmwcZ6hTiVQ Syh4d5AdflgVW2GYMAKFH0NdnXrFIi_y_EmDe1e1PCmJyG_YptXRBuvE7Sv338lISZNN3ilJJTf. 0NfhWzjbiv8BDsUhdCyPvE2feq5xMwj9PbnIwHnuqeWJpTVdBGp14u3MEBn.XN2F.vBdYNX2zlS2 e_exVkFYe0tMYwOm8f9dKlKB3VV.UeUHqRXNFIzyneE1F.KVPnEEMwcRTlsBaf8UoDNWjAzGopda GeVeE3_Z1 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:44:56 +0000 Received: from x4e31604e.dyn.telefonica.de (EHLO archlinux) ([78.49.96.78]) by smtp430.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a345166978573355c2cc2fcf6127c312; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:44:53 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:44:53 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628134453.3e2728af@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190628132915.7a4d9e85@archlinux> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> <20190628132915.7a4d9e85@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0AE716E5ED X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.96.49.78.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.73)[-0.729,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.72)[0.715,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(2.44)[ip: (7.98), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.41), asn: 34010(1.89), country: GB(-0.09)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.77)[0.768,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[201.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[201.178.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:45:05 -0000 PS: Guerilla Open Access Manifesto: https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt Perhaps we should move this discussion to freebsd-chat@freebsd.org ;). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 12:14:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D7215B86EB for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:14:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe33.google.com (mail-vs1-xe33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0B6C6F903 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:14:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe33.google.com with SMTP id a186so3876110vsd.7 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:14:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hUcPAynIOXQwwdlJVLSRNXFfbGCs4bnBEUUhDu/80E0=; b=FrDHxxBR9mw+OXjwKavzwwgUv+COUjyE7F/8db0ZCThYHzegIV1H2lTndcKmz8Z0VJ yJpvOiEpr7LfHnN8WHfCyk6W/cSPVUodBejFjJJcOwX2sfmV0c63buzD9GrX12DXhYmb eyBTO6ynFmqJSIJTe0oo8SSc7uZw0yBDCgz18TXhqzUt35IHx6a80AtvSlIuuw+o/ExU go+gKooFePc6UABOSSMc+we1GMmAZjHewvUk+xVdhgxKWcyzDk6znGYTDKM+jqEYc8qG tuSvGhE4KKc0GjHWiJmxBmaxuUjPQyxy5/GQWSmOJxLq7m2KqFxtOPRFeFxcpdnBuLTk 5eaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hUcPAynIOXQwwdlJVLSRNXFfbGCs4bnBEUUhDu/80E0=; b=TyhXMzK8vdtzHkSV97p4wE8iX3k3r/H0zISa6S0bOrQSi1+rRu6yV5IQGU6rLMf2nh uhY2U2G4AlzuIdFxKMIBBnCJ3Rz/bkNYlB9bliNTDHSNB1JQ7cyGt0HVyq4MeBhfHb25 WmyPxarDOcVSsQSk6seV6taKnFXl+9TIJQsEW3dBumiz4si5N1YI5sR9A4w7ynJTgIfW v8znZD0z72P4WmmQs9cFmlyqeDStyv0FaPtZ1TvsqPGWCZg38bCeBhOXTDc9Dj8je35n rui0zHlpawmWDiYVTxDoB2mTqZuxhi6bYEH7W5doppXUORvg3tji2G6lXe4nDun9DqJ6 UNSg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVrBc2/DA/a7qf+cUD4h6x8WBOLSm6hKVLE6ukOxpIBUM0SD7VB s+OU2bPs2okDYrh4Qzz5gt84HWMn2BKZrd/M+btMzQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz9dJ2/QQ8yhl8oOwSKe2PXnkR2QBk0VtCD7YOV/QLADJeI05jOF4JpyTW5cgcdbXzwqARUeFVrg+4nNmcAklA= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fc50:: with SMTP id p16mr6209628vsq.79.1561724040984; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:14:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9f:3f0e:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:13:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Antonio Olivares Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:13:59 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: Polytropon Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A0B6C6F903 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=FrDHxxBR; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of olivares14031@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=olivares14031@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.01 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-3.03)[ip: (-9.61), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.13), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:14:03 -0000 > Luckily, nobody reads EULAs anyway... ;-) > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > EULA reminds me of a joke Argument with a wife is like reading the Software License Agreement.In the end, you ignore everything and click 'I agree' This and other husband/wife jokes found here: https://www.chronicwriter.com/2014/01/607-husband-and-wife-jokes.html?m=1 Best Regards, Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 12:36:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3748415C004F for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:36:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BEAC7040E for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:36:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1561724184; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=I/A3NkiIywxJ/gOlj4oLvQD84nc=; b=sXknG8hWIRSH/cJdMjvDosjVVdvVwsLOm+8Lpz9GpWU3h2Wp0UO6fUqLM8a1+Sze 7sQW04wslak4hZs9u40V1ZeS6vRlmzerDocYCt+0EGpb10ML7y3k2i/IdBaRpl1f F/wzOFMKIvnP2oIjzYjvum1kyb/9E7RMoXQERts6AahBEiqamVnqae6m+a+8aLhR V3Wb6NAD0Qw4MXdxkKe3woi/5KVD+eHcRKxQP0D/QmCeBBzBcdoPf4ahz1ckgF1B R7R0AefVzyTeU3BfBJ9rT5jjLyMBxaap7KT4VgxIggceVT9R4iWWP6DAU5q7Hm62 HYNU8MShp/M/6HIOxvOE1w==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=R/9BIpZX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=dq6fvYVFJ5YA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=ejKNwDIABZTUwUWbP_EA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=roberthuff@rcn.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=roberthuff; auth=pass (PLAIN) Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:54508] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 96/97-10370-715061D5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:16:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23830.1302.518060.256402@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:16:22 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: Olivier Cc: Polytropon , ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... In-Reply-To: References: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.2 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BEAC7040E X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=sXknG8hW; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.78)[ip: (-9.31), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-4.60), asn: 36271(0.06), country: US(-0.06)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.rcn.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.831,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:36:32 -0000 Olivier writes: > The very few times I need to launch Word, it is a version of 2003, > bought in 2003, never paid anything since. I have heard it said 95+% of the people composing a text document only use abilities present in Word for Windows 2.0. > What puzzle me even more is people accepting to buy their cars through > leasing: you pay every month, for 3 years, and at the end of the 3 years > period, you have... nothing. While it may make sense for a business (fix > cost every month, if the business stop its business, it has no car > left, but a dead business needs no car), it makes no sense for > individuals. Aesthetically, some people like driving a late-model car and are willing to pay for the satisfaction. Operationally ... it is my understanding that - especially as one goes further up-scale - the lease includes a care package. The more miles put on the car, the greater the value of free dealer-provided routine maintenance. There may be other reasons, which are left as an exercise for the reader. > And it makes even less sens for something like software that will > not stop working or loose its functionalities with time. That depends on the software. If your program is _entirely_ stand-alone, then you're correct. But if it depends on programs not under your control ... and they're getting upgraded ... then it can "lose" functionality. Example: Novell, or better yet Banyan, networking. For some, leasing is a bad deal and they should buy/find a free alternative. But if leasing were that bad, it wouldn't be a growing market. (Plenty of stupid out there; plenty of not-stupid too.) Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 12:37:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B964F15C00D1 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:37:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms-10.1blu.de (ms-10.1blu.de [178.254.4.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AD9A704DF for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:37:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [80.187.83.12] (helo=[10.165.131.140]) by ms-10.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hgq7v-0000Kq-EB; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:37:15 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: I've got a major question... From: Matthias Apitz X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16E227) In-Reply-To: <20190628132915.7a4d9e85@archlinux> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:37:14 +0200 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> <20190628132915.7a4d9e85@archlinux> To: Ralf Mardorf X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 80.187.83.12 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8AD9A704DF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.unixarea.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.844,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[101.4.254.178.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; IP_SCORE(-3.01)[ip: (-8.82), ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(-3.56), asn: 42730(-2.68), country: DE(-0.01)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[12.83.187.80.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:37:26 -0000 Please move this off list. Thanks Von meinem iPhone gesendet > Am 28.06.2019 um 13:29 schrieb Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions : >=20 >> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400, Jerry wrote: >> Both Adobe=E2=80=99s and Microsoft=E2=80=99s new business model of leasin= g software has >> proven successful. >=20 > Among Artists on iOS the licensing model is unaccepted and there are a > lot of very good, inexpensive apps available users don't need to rent. > With the new iPadPro it's already possible to replace a lot of apps that > required a desktop PC or a laptop a while back. I only need to do a > minority of my artwork on a desktop PC and what I still need to do on > the desktop PC, could be done with free as in beer FLOSS. It might not > work for everybody, some people still might need proprietary software > on a desktop PC, but probably they could use old software to do this. > By the way everybody accepts that software bought 25 years ago > can't be used today. It's also accepted that from time to time an > update needs to be bought, as long as it doesn't become a hidden rent > model. Instead of rent out the software, vendors could sell new > plugins, to get money for new work, instead of selling something again > and again without really providing something. A vendor is free to offer > special licensing models for schools and companies, but enforcing a > licensing model that is useful for schools and companies to very small > businesses and private users is just a rip-off. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 12:47:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BFAE15C0801 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:47:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw1-xc30.google.com (mail-yw1-xc30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B60D070B71 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:47:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yw1-xc30.google.com with SMTP id l79so3496705ywe.11 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4Cgb4fh7gz+3/KRmpyZaqOwSp69T94wIfmMC716vgmg=; b=BM8U929gj9Itp0jM0miPPD2HRl0nrod2gyPQUMKTwJsz+9NhMkozu8/FESYHyvJWKm bPMSoANQt/99DcDZEs/U6/vs8zzBTeLQEAAnykK2UfZuiuHtddtMof/wXGqqel+64K3d MP0blezhnw6CC0KupMg6Pm794HaofICC5BEqc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4Cgb4fh7gz+3/KRmpyZaqOwSp69T94wIfmMC716vgmg=; b=AGQQqumlM2K/2u6L24Zg46eUV+UvuRTJZJWmdX3gDQW07NprWZRDx5qeBovvA9r6j6 EPWr0eHOxSJ/yf5i/wPd7MZMNc+YYSj79p+JAAfRPBREnoh12CT7dVoiwmUFKKniPUId vSIJwwQDQaAyOvRHHYtfWcCnqFroUyshqd6temuJEqHULD5o/pqVfmJTIrYpPx47cRKI XLcj25O8FqJpJXv1qoY2zCCPGt6kYzo1vkz5M5u4fo5/C44O5P18PTUnILw8V6pKC8nJ YW/9Y5ZHFjg2e4oNCW6odt4IpkC49b+Q0fXM8iFRupL3gEFRB2HaXwxkinMAuYy5++FT Qtng== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWVNFK1nSqXqdWS+WpGntEpES4bA9HRHP92nmv/nCyRffHfw/wS WWi13+8gMPKaYgn5Ppia8t04J11kDX4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqynv3r9VASfmRAxSbvi9Nr9bcPl36R0PChZrXbtHuDHMPlI+GYAU4kW+nNYEdQvfV2Ok9NT+w== X-Received: by 2002:a81:7a55:: with SMTP id v82mr6193447ywc.198.1561726031500; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p141sm441461ywg.78.2019.06.28.05.47.10 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ZxNs64Fpz3G8c for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:47:07 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628084707.00002b8d@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20190628131711.f6b0638c.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> <20190628131711.f6b0638c.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B60D070B71 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=BM8U929g; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.43 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.944,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.97)[ip: (-9.34), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.13), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:47:14 -0000 On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:17:11 +0200, Polytropon stated: >On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400, Jerry wrote: >> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200, Polytropon stated: >> >On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via >> >freebsd-questions wrote: >> >> Software to rent for artists could be a serious problem. I don't >> >> want the software for free as in beer. I want to buy (pay for it >> >> and then own) the software I want to use, since there are times >> >> when I have money and there are times all I've got to eat, are >> >> the wallpapers from my walls. To do some work, the software to do >> >> the work is needed. If an artist can't pay the rent for the >> >> software, the artist can't do the artwork to earn money. >> > >> >And even if you buy a book, the book will stop working. >> >Repeat: The books will stop working. >> > >> >https://twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1144011630197522432 >> > >> >The "always online & for rent" doesn't just add financial problems >> >as expressed above, but can also introduce new security pitfalls, >> >plus the "extra pay" you (as the user) provide by allowing the >> >vendor to harvest your usage behaviour and sell that to what I >> >often call their real clients: the advertising industry. And if >> >you don't pay, your data - the art _you_ created - is held hostage >> >until you pay. Or it is "accidentally" lost in which case, as per >> >the EULA, you don't have any rights for compensation. >> > >> >And remember: The books will stop working. :-) >> >> Your analogy is seriously flawed on so many levels. For instance, I >> purchased 5.25” floppy discs 30 years ago with programs that I cannot >> now get to run on any modern OS, and that is assuming I locate a >> 5.25” drive. I won’t even bother discussing 8-inch (203 mm) media. >> Times change, you must learn to accept it. > >You're comparing physical to nonphysical items, as well as short-term >and long-term. This is flawed twice. Additionally, you're refering >to OS environments that do no longer exist. > >If you have the urgent need to "keep alive" hardware and software >from many decades ago, there probably is a good reason for it, maybe >some software that costed $$$$$ and needs to interface with some >specific old hardware that still runs and needs to keep running. >I'm saying this because I have a few of those "museum cases" where >things just need to be "kept alive", because there simply is no >alternative that is technically or financially viable. Because >_some_ things do _not_ change. > > > >> Documents created with either Adobe due not suddenly “stop” working >> if you cancel your lease. They are fully available with either a >> stand-alone version of Adobe or with a program capable of open PDFs. >> I know because I have done it; plus, it states so on Adobe’s web >> site. Nothing created by the user ceases to work. > >You have probably misinterpreted what I tried to say: With the >"lease model", non-local storage can be the key problem if you >fail to pay. Creation and output is only possible through the >program itself, be it a stand-alone installation or an online >version. As long as someone else is involved, and you do not >store your stuff locally (with _any_ program being able to get >access to it), the moment you fail to pay can be the moment >your works are gone. That is just plain BS, Poly. "ALL" the documents I create, whether with Adobe, or some program from MS Office "ARE" stored locally. I have the option to store them on my own cloud service, such as DropBox, or a vendor supplied one. In my case, I back up my locally stored documents to a cloud service. You are trying to make it sound as if you are being forced to use a vendor supplied location. That is completely false and extremely misleading. In addition, the services I have used allow a "grace" period to unload files from their storage facilities should you decide to cancel the lease. In my case, OneDrive comes with Windows, so I can store stuff there anytime I want. PLEASE, stop trying to scare the children. (FUD) >> In Adobe, you have the option of opting out of allowing Adobe to >> harvest your data. There are two options, one to collect your usage >> data and another to collect program data should it crash. I see no >> legitimate reason to opt out of the latter, but that is an individual >> decision to make. > >It is. Reality shows that such decision making isn't always easy, >because the corresponding controls are hidden, buried on some >sub-dialog or preference page. The default, in my opinion, should >be to make the decision at the first run of the software, with >the standard value being "no data transmitted". Giving away your >data for free (!) should be an active decision, not something you >need to express your dissent later on. When I agreed to the lease agreement, that was one of the first items that appeared on the screen. While I cannot recall at this moment, I believe the default was to not exchange data. Changing you mind is not a major problem either. In Adobe, simply log in at Adobe.com with your Adobe ID. From the Overview Page select "Security & Privacy". Now click the "manage" link associated with the "Privacy" heading. There are two check boxes that have to do with collecting information. Uncheck them if you don't want to share your files with Adobe. In MS Products, simply open the application, . MS should do a better job of hiding this Privacy> stuff. >> Both Adobe’s and Microsoft’s new business model of leasing software >> has proven successful. Customers like the fact that the software is >> kept up-to-date, and the cost of the product has declined >> dramatically. > >Depends. > >For example, most of my customers are complaining that updates >break their workflow, slow down operations, and cause hardware >to stop working ("Scanner has stopped working after update, >please help!" or "My screen looks all funny, right after the >reboot the update caused."). Some of them even do not perform >those updates in fear something would break. This is of course >a problem from a security point of view. But you probably know >this from corporate installations where updates are not performed >in an O(n) manner on individual PCs running home version of >"Windows", but instead the whole process is controlled by the >IT department. Even in such cases, important updates are _not_ >done because they need some internal review and excessive testing, >and if someone says, "This will break the functionality of our >software module X version Y, we can't do this update.", the >update is also _not_ done. Don't get me started about corporate >IT security... ;-) Why would I inquire about IT security? From your description, it sounds to me like you are talking about an OS update or modification. I am referring to applications, not entire OSs. I belong to both the Adobe and MS Office forums, and have never heard your stated complaints regarding an application update. I am also on the beta team for MS Office, and while I would expect to heard those problems, I don't. In addition, most software problems I have encountered first hand are usually due to the PEBCAK phenomenon. >Regarding costs: Recently I had a client complain about the >software they were using. They changed from a yearly fee, let's >just pretend $200, to a quarterly fee of $80. And $80 is less >than $200, right? Plus, there is no installation media anymore, >you need to download the software at your own costs (time and >transfer volume, because that particular customer only has slow >Internet, which hasn't been a problem before). So: No, it's not >always cheaper. No you are just playing at being stupid, or at least I assume you are playing at it. Of course, a quarterly purchase would be more than a yearly purchase. We buy office supplies in bulk. One ream of paper costs us more per item than lets say 100 reams. That is just plan business economics, taught in Business 101. Assume, they don't download it. Instead they drive to a location to purchase it. Now we have incurred gas/diesel charges, depreciation on the vehicle uses for the transportation, etcetera. Or perhaps they get a friend to secure the necessary software for them. In any case, they obviously have to secure the item. Your analogy is seriously flawed. >But I completely agree with your statement regarding home users. >As they don't control their smartphones and tables, why should >they control their computers which are no longer PCs (_their_ >personal computers)? Smartphone OS updates come in automatically, >are installed without much interaction; tablet software gets its >updates, new version is available without big trouble. Security >holes are dealt with in a quick manner, as it should be. Given >that a significant amount of spam, DDoS trouble etc. is generated >from home PCs running "Windows" versions which aren't patched >properly, automated (and let me just say "forced") updates are >a good solution. And nothing requires the user to have any kind >of knowledge about how a computer works, what an operating system >is or why security matters to everyone. On an Android system, you can delay or stop the auto-update function or request that you be given the options of refusing it. The same goes for MS operating systems; at least the ones I have used. I have no idea what you are playing with. >> In >> the case of Microsoft, their Office 365 HOME offers six products, >> Word, Excel, PowerPoint, One Note, Outlook, Publisher, Access, >> 60-minutes of Skype, and 1TB Cloud Storage. At $99.99 for five >> separate installations with up to 6 users, that works out to less >> than $20 per install for over, at retail, a $1000 of software. > >And you get almost the same for free with LibreOffice, plus it >will open files that "Office 365" has stopped supporting many >years ago, plus you can store in standardized document formats, >plus you can output to PDF directly, and so on, and you can use >the same program on any platform and OS. ;-) I have tried LibreOffice. It doesn't integrate the various products any where as seamlessly as MS Office does. Plus, you can output to PDF directly from MS Office, whether or no Adobe is installed. In addition, MS office will save a document in most commonly used formats. You are just spreading more FUD. >> Leasing software is not >> the perfect business plan for all users; however, in many cases, it >> fits into their business model perfectly. In some cases, like mine, >> it works out as a nice tax deduction, although a small one. > >I won't disagree here. In the past, renting both hardware and >software has been a typical construct, and of benefit for the >users. This changed with the age of personal computers, and >changed back with the dawn of mobile computing, I would say. >Of course there is no "one size fits all". Now, just to clarify things, I use many FOSS applications, including Postfix/Dovecot for my mail server, in addition to MySQL, openLDAP, and other useful products. I don't have a desktop environment on my FreeBSD PC because I have always found the X implementation rather juvenile, to say the least. When FreeBSD can actually support better hardware, printers, scanners, WI-FI devices without the end user having to go through hoops and hacks just to get some functionality from their device, assuming they can get it to work at all, then I might revisit that issue. At the present time time, it is a non-starter. Again, the lease business model is obviously not suitable for everyone, however, I find it to be an extremely useful tool. I agree with you, "One size does not fit all." Never-the-less, the feedback that the big players have been getting is favorable, so I think the trend will continue. As in any successful business model, it is subject to change. -- Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 12:57:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F89E15C0C15 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:57:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15D7470FBE for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:57:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id i203so3725832ybg.2 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:57:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NYsdX752M/EX5AaxO4bTwoe5eq2xAtgqIYKo8XLlFMM=; b=MUelxvRnyvjDc1VFRDgrN7awm9tyHO6eVugmsAEYkBApLVj4AgNUKPZrM/fxY9MSma 69FhrMacIcNPqMrytQFX8j5WT0y4ZBu8jXR0fcHl/o6xwmmbr6EiWCjiFiByRU4mbese IPfbXUnhunKZ3Y7k2X3JMmyGRTy1dgct0o/C0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NYsdX752M/EX5AaxO4bTwoe5eq2xAtgqIYKo8XLlFMM=; b=b9JgcSuS+A9pFR0MnI1VxiyrveHBdMBuUJ5YAcnBOEjyC4fJfKZpky5T2UvvoA+FB1 kcmmcOedC1kkJdUJrL0XRUWIK+D2YPYfNO99IqQcDiV6BHXiv6bHnTF0Wjpe/0G4h1gv ZWRo8KzmiiIk+MqsECkcncAUp2IYKm+eGygpgQvLWlB2ml2VNVIbhdjaOXj+tKmmhsbp uz69hLBzC5lNoiq/1WssZIqWEYL5TpX68MCscZA0ohpBVZnEJ7Js2adQvwq67xSX0UXL OSiyOjOfzAlQgnWnJs0Ojq51H130lQ/43iDnagKOnTDmU+Oe3QrDA2sxdrfBQg7bk4h1 QknA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVgfgAzqZm7uswZNtw23G2VBEI0SZ0VQThgaPk30OZLA5TVMd2p bZ9+EM6/lS4HrqtXCHSmCA3+IWUN57k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/qi80fAl41hmCpkktkmds5gtmQaV/yHycoIzkwXEqedHpnl/MsaW6tqawGoVL/8v/AOGbBg== X-Received: by 2002:a25:4d55:: with SMTP id a82mr6411886ybb.383.1561726665269; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x184sm457580ywe.109.2019.06.28.05.57.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (HP-ENVY [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45Zxd35H5Qz3G9D for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:57:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:57:41 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I've got a major question... Message-ID: <20190628085741.00004f06@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <23830.1302.518060.256402@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <23830.1302.518060.256402@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 15D7470FBE X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=MUelxvRn; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.37 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.902,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.96)[ip: (-9.27), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.13), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.06)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.b.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 12:57:47 -0000 On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:16:22 -0400, Robert Huff stated: >Olivier writes: > >> The very few times I need to launch Word, it is a version of 2003, >> bought in 2003, never paid anything since. > > I have heard it said 95+% of the people composing a text > document >only use abilities present in Word for Windows 2.0. MS did a survey regarding office a few years ago. Over 90% of the users where not aware that Office has a built in calculator. Most users have no idea what the true functionality of Office really is. Then again, most non-power users will never need that functionality. >> What puzzle me even more is people accepting to buy their cars >> through leasing: you pay every month, for 3 years, and at the end of >> the 3 years period, you have... nothing. While it may make sense for >> a business (fix cost every month, if the business stop its business, >> it has no car left, but a dead business needs no car), it makes no >> sense for individuals. > > Aesthetically, some people like driving a late-model car and > are >willing to pay for the satisfaction. > Operationally ... it is my understanding that - especially as > one >goes further up-scale - the lease includes a care package. The more >miles put on the car, the greater the value of free dealer-provided >routine maintenance. There may be other reasons, which are left as an >exercise for the reader. I lease all my vehicles, and have for several years. The cost is cheaper for starters. There are tax incentives if used for business. Plus, I like getting a new vehicle every three years. I lease for three years, but there are other plans available. Plus, the dealer picks up most maintenance charges. >> And it makes even less sens for something like software that will >> not stop working or loose its functionalities with time. > > That depends on the software. > If your program is _entirely_ stand-alone, then you're correct. > But if it depends on programs not under your control ... and >they're getting upgraded ... then it can "lose" functionality. > Example: Novell, or better yet Banyan, networking. I agree, this is something that has to be determined at retail. > For some, leasing is a bad deal and they should buy/find a free >alternative. > But if leasing were that bad, it wouldn't be a growing market. >(Plenty of stupid out there; plenty of not-stupid too.) I agree. The end user should always explore all options and carefully weight them against their actual needs, both now and hopefully at least 3 or 4 years down the line. More if this is a business venture. Unfortunately, most people never look past today. -- Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 28 15:34:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B13015C47C7 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:34:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBFB75EDE for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:34:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from point.uchicago.edu (point.uchicago.edu [128.135.52.6]) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C10C71803F for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:34:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: I've got a major question... To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190626063443.51ad3f1b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627081518.9dc6f3c2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627091012.44fc65a7@archlinux> <20190627103701.7ea401b8@archlinux> <20190627110340.d0d87cfe.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627113712.8a8ffbb238f478b08514cf72@sohara.org> <20190627080134.000012d6@seibercom.net> <20190627141756.1bf4a848.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190627153043.7ce7553c@archlinux> <77a7ea05-6264-d052-e03b-1cc889172f38@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20190627151221.00004412@seibercom.net> <20190627221604.7794d7b0@archlinux> <20190628072716.7efaf909.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628064243.000007b0@seibercom.net> <20190628131711.f6b0638c.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190628084707.00002b8d@seibercom.net> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:34:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190628084707.00002b8d@seibercom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6FBFB75EDE X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.907,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.84)[-0.836,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.64)[0.636,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[kicp.uchicago.edu]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:34:21 -0000 On 2019-06-28 07:47, Jerry wrote: > On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:17:11 +0200, Polytropon stated: >> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:42:43 -0400, Jerry wrote: >>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:27:16 +0200, Polytropon stated: >>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:16:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via >>>> freebsd-questions wrote: >>> In Adobe, you have the option of opting out of allowing Adobe to >>> harvest your data. There are two options, one to collect your usage >>> data and another to collect program data should it crash. I see no >>> legitimate reason to opt out of the latter, but that is an individual >>> decision to make. >> >> It is. Reality shows that such decision making isn't always easy, >> because the corresponding controls are hidden, buried on some >> sub-dialog or preference page. The default, in my opinion, should >> be to make the decision at the first run of the software, with >> the standard value being "no data transmitted". Giving away your >> data for free (!) should be an active decision, not something you >> need to express your dissent later on. > > When I agreed to the lease agreement, that was one of the first items > that appeared on the screen. While I cannot recall at this moment, I > believe the default was to not exchange data. I do not know why everybody thinks that when they click "opt out" button for usage of your data on whichever vendor's side, this will be exactly what will happen: the vendor will not use your data. Why it didn't occur to anybody that by clicking "opt out" button you might initiate the opposite: your data will be processed and analyzed even more thoroughly and to deeper level? Since when we, sysadmins (aren't we all sysadmins who participated in this discussion?) forgot that we only can trust to what we are able to verify ourselves. Valeri PS sorry about still adding noise. This will be my last comment on this thread. > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Jun 29 20:48:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256FA15C086B for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:48:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 2albaropereyra@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58FA989FE0 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:48:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 2albaropereyra@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id k20so19948246ios.10 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:48:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DrHpDn2XrtxDMSGC5d862sWM5lS6OL3LtLXi2WSQeBE=; b=J8eh+7PtcQZ5jVth/YmWtVztm/Qr5lNaq2ZkPhAqsmRbY+btDMcipVvDJa/iJ2jfHG Z6c0wqDmIFlsA4MZWGKm6TKpNZkSUqFIouvq+plR0KNUCOUkpiZo52UIkWO0AcvAe2M4 MRk+q2g+5tZNbYGKLvaWJW3DEQiTWYCnOlpLcrjhYCoSfXa4Fq9Sa75U7ZW4ox5zx5Mn OZvikKGucx9/VEktyLrDC9jpXg6OEdo9TQYoenyTJhNxicSYz2iRs22S/aljCc7l+Rd5 LYYC0R+SD7nxE6rM67Ul/tW9PDcUitYQ6ivIjPQjFZv3k0JIBLypna9cXle9ZVIp2jZD +1ew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=DrHpDn2XrtxDMSGC5d862sWM5lS6OL3LtLXi2WSQeBE=; b=lPgbJVNWV4cLnFIqpUOkw9u3MTOnv1RaKJTapZhTKyJv6ds/6FnDmzLzf/DLELBQT8 1ePwhbyvU+pFGTks74DKFRntXHoeoi1Jd0hW7j82Y2eI+7MS5mH0KHDpEGbU0z0DOVpU vj7wEo5zXLqLxeTRgtOQVhD9AuKhiyD3WMrmUmq8flZsgEOMhhha4On1W5UyzUPf+eWp 1yJNUMnXq72lR0gOctva2hxY4JNaKCvM/g+6xt2l7xr+ps4QTNCLKWbffMegB1DZZr5Y DSedMPqDI5ooBMno/AIpLaGb+AX+1IEp0JMSlPDN+XFEqf1zmFqNDena7z/B2V09YDEo m/cg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWSzCrCml/skh5q9bek63TpjpYBkraXO5E/8tnGlxCh6iJog77L jYBtj0kOMXZT5kJ6/lEFpWgGfuQ5JHvccNHXiCsV6w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/JP3s43GQQJUONf6VHHN5ijLAvnF+EeLB+lvATJ7aE5Gmxl5Ny7mppaZgfSY3g6d9uu6Gj40hPgaKAfWWgvU= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:db0a:: with SMTP id q10mr18522596iop.168.1561841327894; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:48:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Albaro Pereyra <2albaropereyra@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:48:37 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: GNU split out of date To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 58FA989FE0 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=J8eh+7Pt; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 2albaropereyra@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=2albaropereyra@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.53 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.899,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.63)[ip: (-7.60), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.14), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 20:48:51 -0000 Greetings freebsd community, Why are tools such as GNU split so far behind let's say those found in linux for example? If there is no real reason, how can we as a community expedite the process of getting this completed? Please advise, Albaro, -- Albaro Pereyra Software Engineer Creator of The Internet Ruler 11561 Haynes St. N. Hollywood, CA 91606 +1 (818) 644-1542 <8186441542> 2AlbaroPereyra@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Jun 29 21:41:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF78F15C2112 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:41:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 2albaropereyra@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 131D38C4C0 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:41:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 2albaropereyra@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id m24so20196943ioo.2 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ozUqZ46qeu5QjtczSY6kqMBjfMwjgOIK0L92Q2RkX/8=; b=cATQo4VDi0IP8/rYoksrjKjGpF+YF/KyK6/QCV5g0/ff9feM0uigIwqrmcxAl3tDjG bP0O8a/ijiOL3EbR/P4lZbVEvqFBtVgGvnPq9L8RbIhRozsXh8f9OqEQGbrGgP1YCMey pyOU98joDGITHwkO74SjCz5Vov4n5jnY5+dzyDAOmPIBMgx/lLKj6qixeioAg3ucqfxT E53WS69Kgw3Q4h/zbpO5u/+qvROSQw1RYUFKLY0OPMghcysjrX8XEj+ospjfWN5/pT0u xZyQk99dObvB9pra9+0DUVJxlX6Pyaq5pu8TAIFLwJoDTpyhYw9bABM0aSRpcno5cp1/ xF8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ozUqZ46qeu5QjtczSY6kqMBjfMwjgOIK0L92Q2RkX/8=; b=WYyCbNU+U9J/BxpiLnmP8c11+8zMVre5h0aIwpzmG3+z7P/jldOlLO+V+FPu7OVPNd LqEspPSt4MsqMKxpiA5Ndmjp+P6csTCNi27KBfrA2aHmEOBvtMInaBrMOET8HBNVPEGc rULE0xfjSFwPHjhLZETo5IZsvJ0s6ME5bMl6ToXwfvaWryrfkmbAAQqIYqcvw4KaWexz CcKPOdWuaK4QWPQTVbJvx37epOefLsTCgXcJ9Qf2L5izZD2lT6NQ3klm+PZqb3vx91VQ 62G/yu5eL/z9SssYIEz9z4WBVyBrLe0HpEDJeA3CX6mSz0lOTV3GtXBQCYTyei4Wph46 CfZA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVTRds2lD51WUxmVkCnvZUtepsm0QUClhhqcdr7X6+jrO3Car+C 4iLfH7c9H9PegPAcL4GphLM+UyjHr+mDfo4FLiRNHA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw+OxnFlEnpe4qROEw7oJBMlHOoCo9QLZavQ+qBu5WswLmwABK0BlG4GKOlnSGclPf1GaD+PVD4agFIPWOlzUA= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:4f15:: with SMTP id d21mr5153909iob.210.1561844514191; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:41:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Albaro Pereyra <2albaropereyra@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:41:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: sendmail To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 131D38C4C0 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=cATQo4VD; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 2albaropereyra@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=2albaropereyra@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.93 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.95)[ip: (-9.24), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.13), asn: 15169(-2.34), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:41:56 -0000 Greetings Freebsd community, The sendmail repo has not been updated for a really long time according to its wiki article. When will Free-bsd ship with postfix or the ubuntu MTA that is being attacked recently? Please advise, Albaro, -- Albaro Pereyra Software Engineer 11561 Haynes St. N. Hollywood, CA 91606 +1 (818) 644-1542 <8186441542> 2AlbaroPereyra@gmail.com