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Date:      Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:57:59 -0400
From:      Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net>
To:        FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
Message-ID:  <20110718095759.476bf349@scorpio>
In-Reply-To: <20110718134903.993b87f5.freebsd@edvax.de>
References:  <20110717071059.25971662@scorpio> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1107170928360.56712@Elmer.dco.penx.com> <CAKYr3zx3C5kwUaZQ82=d8U=uCRusoNHc4qbb0w-8BNB2X2Xu9Q@mail.gmail.com> <CA+tpaK2-t2Y5NN+1XFa8aJbw+bfvEAeP4-iD5_iLthqaohydNw@mail.gmail.com> <CAKYr3zweDWHCT9ir4uqq+jPUZaHZE+NdgUuu_vvbcOy65XDvBA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+tpaK3w7ZTpSJgsqkz+oBwbvm6J6vi4TyFBSqMxB5gDbsH9oA@mail.gmail.com> <4E23F31C.3010803@pathscale.com> <20110718073000.29e89590@scorpio> <20110718134903.993b87f5.freebsd@edvax.de>

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On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:49:03 +0200
Polytropon articulated:

> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:30:00 -0400, Jerry wrote:
> > I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD
> > start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write
> > code that either the regular contributors do not want to write or
> > are not capable of writing. Other OS's are currently working on
> > that model. No one would be forced to contribute. This would prove
> > beneficial to everyone and should satisfy both capitalist who don't
> > mind paying for quality products and socialist like Poly who want
> > everything for nothing. It would be a win-win situation.
> 
> Erm... you're invited to prove the "everything for nothing"
> as well as the "socialist" claim. I'm old enough not to
> take this insult personally, but still (for maintaining
> discussion culture) please back up your statement, or it
> will simply classify you as impolite and stupid.
> 
> Besides that nonsense, I agree with your statement. With
> support (usually by money) and help of manufacturers that
> are interested in bringing their hardware to a better
> support situation by providing information and documentation
> so developers could write drivers for many platforms, it
> would be a win-win situation. It would even be better than
> cost-intensive reverse engineering - means: better drivers
> in less time, so FreeBSD could be used on most modern
> hardware. The more standards are used, the less work is
> needed to bring the new hardware up. (Just imagine you
> would need a driver for a hard disk...)

There are so many fundamental problems with the "standards" concept.
For starters it limits or prevents basic product improvement or
development. It the wireless "A" protocol were to have been made a
standard then improvement on its deficiencies would have taken far
longer than needed. In all too many cases, the FOSS invents a
"standard" that locks users into one specific culture. Any obstacle
placed in front of a developer that impedes his/her attempt to improve
upon an existing protocol or the creation of a newer one is absolutely
unacceptable. Then again, standards are irrelevant. There are, after
all, so many of them to choose from.

> Personally, this is no issue for me as I don't own such
> things, but because you claim that I "want everything for
> nothing"... :-)

If you don't own it, then you have no vested interest in it making your
statement irrelevant. Plus, both here and in an abundant of other posts
you have stated that product developers after spending X number of
US dollars, German Marks (DEM), Euros (EUR) or whatever currency
you like, freely give their work away to the FOSS community. That is
just plain "bullshit" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit>. Only a
dyed-in-the-wool <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dyed-in-the-wool>;
socialist/fascist would even make such a statement.

> Keep in mind that I've also spent money
> on software, but on one that WORKS.

{citation needed}

Besides, why would any moron purchase software that doesn't work?
Obviously you failed to think that statement through.
 
> The more the FreeBSD community depends on having certain
> hardware working, the more support I see for developers.
> But as the community seems to be spread across all the
> many forms of OS use (mostly servers, but also stationary
> workstations, just a minority seems to be using mobile
> devices), I'm not sure it will be sufficient. It's not
> that FreeBSD is a "desktop-only OS" which can invest all
> its energy in getting commodity hardware working, while
> leaving quality aside on other fields. Poorly implemented
> features, broken code, messing around with quirks and
> short-time solutions do not seem to be very welcome among
> FreeBSD users.

You fail to even begin to equate the relationship between support for
"mobile" as opposed to "conventional" units. You are under the illusion
that FreeBSD does not fully support "mobile" units because of the lack
of a substantial user base. I beg to differ with that analysis. I
would use FreeBSD on at least on of my "mobile" units it _IT_ (meaning
FreeBSD) supported it. For years, pundits have been proclaiming the
"Year of Linux on Laptops". Obviously that has never truly come to
pass. How could it, considering how poorly Linux worked on any medium
to high end unit. FreeBSD, unfortunately, doesn't even reach that
plateau.

While poor implementation of code, etcetera is certainly a concern on
any OS, the lack of code is a greater concern for many users of modern
equipment. Any one, and all to may do, prefer to stay with the status
quo rather than invest in the future. In many businesses, that is
called "Dinosaur thinking", and we all know what happened to them.

-- 
Jerry ✌
jerry+fbsd@seibercom.net

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