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Date:      Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:31:45 -0400
From:      "Eric Ogren" <eogren@earthlink.net>
To:        "David Murphy" <drjolt@redbrick.dcu.ie>, <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: make world failed
Message-ID:  <03d301bf9de6$4f694080$0200000a@dinternet.dyn.ml.org>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.10.10004031529120.36725-100000@home.offwhite.net> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0004031348070.2849-100000@dt051n0b.san.rr.com> <20000404001130.A83840@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie> <00040400022200.20912@Bozo_3.BozoLand.domain>

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Hi-

IMO this thread has gone on long enough. However, since I'm hypocritical,
I'm going to post one (and hopefully only one) message regarding it.

> > 1) The responsibility for locating available documentation
> > rests with the user.

 Who else should the responsibility fall on? Blindly doing things on
ANY operating system is a bad idea. Just because WinNT/Win2000
has a more user-friendly administration interface doesn't mean that
your average person should just start screwing around in the control panel.
  Any user should read the documentation, especially with anything
related to system maintenance. I know that people generally don't like
to do this, but it's still necessary: we try to make software
as user-friendly as possible, but computers, and specifically OSs are
still complicated.

 and, just a kind of general comment on the documentation:

 The RELNOTES, ERRATA, and README files AFAIK have always
been mostly associated with a binary release. If you were simply doing a
binary
upgrade (which I believe we reccommend for those who don't follow
the -stable/-current
lists), you wouldn't have to know that you can't simply do a "cd /usr/src &&
make world"
to upgrade between major version #s.
 Personally, I feel that, given as probably 90% of FreeBSD users buy/burn a
CD or
simply download FreeBSD from the net, cluttering up the
relnotes/errata/readme files
with instructions on how to upgrade from source would just needlessly a)
confuse the
majority of users and b) put unnecessary information into these files.

 As has been pointed out to you, the handbook does say that those who wish
to use -stable / -current (ie upgrade via source) MUST read the -stable
and -current
mailing lists. I don't know how else we can make it more clear that
upgrading from
source is not advised for newbies or people that are not willing to put in
the time
to read [or at least skim] the mailing list.

 The one big problem that I see is that the makeworld.html file does not yet
have
any caveats regarding the 3.x -> 4.0 upgrade. This should definitely be
fixed, and
I believe Nik Clayton (doc project manager) is/has prepared patches to fix
this.

 How else would you suggest that this is made more clear?

 I'm not trying to flame you; I'm trying to get your opinion. I've been
using FreeBSD
for 3 or 4 years now, and I've been thinking of trying to get more involved
in some way.
Maybe writing some documentation to clarify the upgrade process could be a
way
to get started. Since it seems you don't feel that users should be forced to
submit
their own docs, could you at least tell a [prospective] doc-guy where else
he should put pointers in?


thanks,
Eric



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