Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 11:41:29 -0700 From: Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com> To: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Boot Loader Menu Message-ID: <5D193023-90EC-4E8D-9FB9-D8D6468DF6A7@fisglobal.com> In-Reply-To: <201210091418.50649.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <CAGH67wQKUvbB1TNJofA6_qXhkxqC_At_Fmg8fcqswj_exBxBFQ@mail.gmail.com> <515694A9-3D0F-4150-8865-F518072C5EC6@fisglobal.com> <201210091418.50649.jhb@freebsd.org>
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On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:18 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:25:19 am Devin Teske wrote: >> =85Re-adding the list=85 (good point) >>=20 >> On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>=20 >>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com>= wrote: >>>> =85Re-adding the list=85 >>>>=20 >>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:42 PM, olli hauer wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> ... >>>>>=20 >>>>>> You'll also get zero argument out of me that putting "Delete" on-scr= een=20 > is not only to-be-avoided for the opposing situation (that some keyboards= may=20 > not have a "Delete" but instead "Backspace") but indeed "Delete" is worse= =20 > because the implied connotation associated with the "Delete" key (_someon= e_=20 > might be confused into thinking "Delete" will purge the menu from memory). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I will play with keycodes. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Just be aware that currently left arrow CANNOT work. That is a bad= =20 > suggestion (read why below). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> In Forth, I'm using the "key" primitive which -- rather unfortunatel= y=20 > -- produces a zero for "left-arrow", "right-arrow", "up-arrow", "down-arr= ow",=20 > "F1", "F2", "F3", "F4", "F5", "F6", "F7", "F8", "F9", and "F10" (note: it= =20 > doesn't catch "F11", "F12", "F13", "F14", "F15", or "F16"). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So all those key options are right-out when it comes to "using them= =20 > instead of Backspace" (I simply can't identify in the loader when those k= eys=20 > are pressed). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ... >>>>>=20 >>>>> will the space key work for a general back to or up one entry? >>>>> I suspect the space bar has the same keycode on all platforms=20 > (intel/appel/ppc/sparc ...) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Anyway nice work :) >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> By golly, I think olli is on to something here! >>>>=20 >>>> What does everybody think about space? >>>>=20 >>>> I like it because it's a NICE BIG TARGET (and it's not used by anythin= g else). >>>=20 >>> It was used once upon a time to pause the bootloader countdown=85 >>=20 >> Well=85 that hasn't *really* been true since r222417 (16+ months ago). >=20 > Yes, you completely destroyed POLA for users used to hitting various keys > to catch the boot loader before it passed by over remote KVMs. Wait, what? I did no such thing. If you had users mashing random keys during the menu, the old functionality= was to keep the timer rolling while they mashed away. After r222417, you could still mash away=85 except the timer stopped. I believe in this instance, I improved an already questionable situation. Q= uestionable because "why were they mashing?" -- the likely answer being "th= ey wanted to either wake things up or they wanted to access the menu" -- in= which case I think the old functionality of continuing the timer until ONL= Y space was it is never what was desired. Is there really a drove of like-minded individuals that _want_ the timer to= keep rolling when someone is mashing keys? ASIDE: Let's ignore the obvious that even in FreeBSD-6, mashing keys could = have led to unknown results as hitting 's' would lead to immediate single-u= ser boot. > Please don't > keep moving the goal posts. Alexander Leidinger recently proposed moving "Single User" back to being an= action item (opposed to being a stateful boolean menuitem). This would ret= urn the functionality of "press s to boot SUM" (versus "press s then Enter = to boot SUM" which changed in r222417). It sounds like you might be a proponent of this. > The only reason my co-workers aren't screaming=20 > loudly about this to date is that we still use 8.x. Well, I advocate them to voice their opinions (tho shouting isn't advocated= ). > Users get these key=20 > bindings ingrained and we shouldn't change them lightly. >=20 See previous discussion. What key binding did they memorize that I broke? > That is really my only comment for this thread. It seems you are intent = on > breaking POLA for little to no gain and have no compunction about doing so > which is a shame. >=20 Absolutely no comment. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.
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