Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:15:30 +1100 From: jonathan michaels <jon@caamora.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Helping others.. Message-ID: <19990123221530.D15095@caamora.com.au> In-Reply-To: <19990123161303.06522@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 04:13:03PM %2B1100 References: <36A8BF9E.FE8F9C5@home.se> <000101be4674$c8f34790$0a00000a@wildrock> <19990123161303.06522@welearn.com.au>
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On Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 04:13:03PM +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:05:01PM -0600, Chris Silva wrote: > > I also agree - Helping is a good thing. I am a subscriber to the more > > popular FBSD newsgroups and as a newbie mewbie myself, can't even > > imagine asking what seems to be frivolous questions based on the > > topics I have seen in say, Current or Stable. > > Of course. Those two lists are for people who have passed the > newbie question stage. > > > I think we need a place where users such as myself can ask: > > What is a.out? > > What is ELF? > > Etc. > > There is a place: freebsd-questions > > > Just my thoughts. BTW, I've been to FBSD on EFNet - There again, I > > try not to ask many questions (based on my lack of experience) with > > the like of Sue and Jordan there. I think you kinda catch my drift ;) > > I sure do :-) > > The #freebsd channel on efnet is not for support, and it's not the sort > of place you'd let your kid-sister go to alone either. > The #freebsd channel on undernet seems more support-oriented. We have > some newbies and near newbies hanging out there most of the time. > Dalnet might be good too. For other networks, play it by ear. > > People who offer support generally want to do it on their own terms, > i.e., when and where they feel like it. It's in our interests to make > them keep feeling like it. They resent being pestered for support > during their "off" time. Ever had the experience of volunteering for > something and then being pressured into a whole lot of extra stuff? > > I know you're gonna find this a bit hard to believe, but some of the > people who don't ever want to support anyone run FreeBSD. Some of them > drink coffee, and some use IRC. Neither coffee nor IRC turn people into > happy helpers. > > FreeBSD-questions is *the* venue for support, to help keep a bit of > sanity about the place. If you want to encourage people to keep > offering support, you have to help them keep their work and play > activities separate or they'll just run away spitting. > > Some newbies don't want to do anything other than ask for help all the > time and disappear when things are going well. Other newbies realise > they'll need help occasionally, but also want some time to interact > socially as equals, not feel like a charity case or a school kid the > whole time. We have this mailing list for that purpose. > > Last year we had a few discussions here around the idea of > a #freebsdHelp IRC channel. We got into technical solutions, discussed > different networks, even the idea of setting up a special irc server. > It was all exciting for a while. Can you guess why nothing much happened? > Like many good sounding ideas, it relies on having enough competent > support people who are willing to commit to putting in the hours. > The "you know FreeBSD therefore you HAVE to answer me!!!" attitude does > little to increase the number of these people willing to keep helping. if i may be permited to stick in a plug here .. grins. email help is a poor second cousin to hands on sit down on a saterday afternoon and get dirty session in a computer user group. lately here (-questions) thier have been lots of peope asking about freebsd user groups. its not hard to organise, you just need a place were a group of people can meet and talk .. eats and drinks are optional extras -- as are teh computers by teh way. all you need is a willingness to go and a notepad to jost down things you might hear that would be helpfull. just sitting around and talking about your experiences can solve anothers person probelms very easily, being able to ask questions in a non threatening enviroment is a very big plus and it is teh quickest way to get to learn anything. well anyway, its someting to think about .. also if thier is no freebsd user group, thier might be a computer user group, even a linux group can have people who run freebsd .. you just have to ask about. if all this draws a blank ask in freebsd-questions, actually freebsd-chat would be better, but take care its a bear pit in desguise. thier is a mailing ilist called freebsd-user-groups, but this is not very much used .. maybe us newbies can fix that small oversight as well .. grins. doing support is not a tiresome job if its fun and inspiring, a user group can be all that and much more .. it also breaks down some of teh most damaging barriers in computing, isolation and loneliness. anyway, back to yo sue, thank you for your time. > If you thank them for their time on duty as helpers, and respect their > time when they are being non-helpers, you'll continue to get at least > as much support as what is offered now. Work their behinds off in > freebsd-questions by all means, but let them get a breather the rest of > the time or they'll only return the same level of respect. > > If you really want an IRC channel for help, make it happen. ditto, the (freebsd) user group in you area .. and i would say, from personal experience that it would be far more fullfiling and give all teh participants far better value for dollar. > Just beware of any help you get there, because, unlike freebsd-questions, > anyone on IRC can tell you any rubbish and there's no-one > checking what they say. At the moment undernet's #freebsd doesn't look > too bad. regards jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia ===========================================================<jon@caamora.com.au> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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