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Date:      Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:46:13 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
To:        jcwells@u.washington.edu
Cc:        freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Good News! Commercial Backing For FreeBSD
Message-ID:  <199909150146.SAA09592@usr06.primenet.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9909130430300.11258-100000@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu> from "Jason C. Wells" at Sep 13, 99 04:58:25 am

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This is a long response to some short posting, but I think this
discussion needs some business perspective.


> Brett isn't raising good points. Brett is raising Brett's points. Nearly
> all of Brett's messages hail the impending doom of FreeBSD. Brett, being
> an effective writer, demands the attention of others to bring perspective
> to the discussion. People like Jordan end up spending time answering
> Brett's criticisms regardless of their merit.

I think you are mising the boat here.

Brett wants increased commercial interest in FreeBSD.  Forget what
his motives are, and agree on the ends (I am not asking you to
agree on the means).

Brett is asking the same kind of questions that IBM asked Whistle
during the due dilligence phase of acquisition; this is a corporate
CYA technique necessary if you intend to engage in modern business.

Whistle was able to laugh most of this off, since while the fact
that Whistle uses FreeBSD is available for the FreeBSD community to
point at (now they can point at "Whistle Communications, Inc., an
I.B.M. Company"), Whistle does not shout this from the rooftops in
advertising materials; neither does it deny it, if asked.  Whistle
specifies use of Open Source, and it puts the legal notices in its
products UI (even though it doesn't have to), and on its Open Source
web site.


Brett wants a more active commercial advocacy than this.  For this
to be possible, he has to proclaim from the rooftops that his
product uses FreeBSD (perhaps even that his putative product is
a FreeBSD distribution: a "WhiteHat" to Linux's  "RedHat").

And for that, he needs to be indemnified against anticompetitive
practices.

I think the risk of anticompetitive practices from Walnut Creek
CDROM is next to NIL, even if Brett were able to push a FreeBSD
based distribution Big Time(tm).

But I am not one of Brett's backers (not that I've been asked and
refused, mind you; I haven't been asked), and his backers will
probably need a better "seperation of church and state" to be
comfortable.  It may not torpedo the deal, but it may skew their
risk calculation to the point where Brett can't afford the cost
of the money.


Do you want to see FreeBSD mentions in advertisements for commercial
products in print, radio, television, etc. advertising?  Then you
need to indemnify the people who are willing to pay for this, to
alleviate their risk.



I think that it would probably be adequate to get the trademark
transferred over to "The FreeBSD Project, Inc.", as Jordan stated
has always been the plan.

I also think that it is beholden on Brett, to a degree, to aid
this process, as possible, potentially including greasing the
skids by volunteering effort in this regard, which Jordan has
so far been unwilling to treat as a crisis.  After all, it may
in fact be a crisis from Brett's perspective, but he can hardly
ask Jordan to treat it as Jordan's crisis.

A written statement by the project as to some minimal guidelines
for what constitutes acceptable use of the trademark, such that
it will be well known if Brett oversteps the line, both for the
benefit of Brett knowing where the line is, as well as for the
general community to be able to agree if or when it has been
crossed.


> Can you imagine if everything Brett wrote made its way to slashdot? The
> consequences would be terrible. It is bad enough that our competition is
> antagonistic.

Business people think remarkably alike.  I believe that if this
happened, then there will be business cases discussed.  There are
good business cases for contributing to free software projects,
even if you are not required to do so.  There are also good reasons
why being required to do so is a Bad Thing(tm) from a business
perspective.

At worst, I believe that people would have to attentively engage
in control of the discussion.

No one really benefits by keeping the truth hidden, and from a
business perspective, most of the concerns about FreeBSD raised
by Brett, and others, have sound business resonas as for why they
should be concerns.

On the whole, I believe the pro-FreeBSD arguments outweigh the
cons, and that open and honest communication, without giving people
the sense that they are still waiting for the other shoe to drop,
is more beneficial than harmful for the long term success of FreeBSD.


> I say that Brett's discussion here does FreeBSD harm.


Sorry Jason, I have to disagree.  Brett has noted social issues,
which I, and others, have noted as well.  He has also noted
business issues (which I have been largely silent upon, but which
others have noted as well).  This discussion has predominantly
been centered on business issues.

Issues are agnostic.  They only have power in the mind of the
person viewing them to be positive or negative.

If you see these issues as negative, then _do_ something about
them, so that you can easily and authoritatively dismiss them,
rather than bemoaning the "harm" they do by the mere fact of
them being raised.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.


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