Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:12:02 -0700 From: Sam Leffler <sam@errno.com> To: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-rc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: boot ordering and syslogd Message-ID: <47E84352.1010506@errno.com> In-Reply-To: <47E83055.9070809@FreeBSD.org> References: <47E809EE.4080809@errno.com> <47E81D12.5090201@FreeBSD.org> <47E81DD1.8050205@errno.com> <47E820D7.1060804@FreeBSD.org> <47E82201.3000502@errno.com> <47E83055.9070809@FreeBSD.org>
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Doug Barton wrote:
> Sam Leffler wrote:
>> But saying "it's not a problem that needs to be fixed" is utterly lame.
>
> Since that's not what I intended to convey let me be less concise.
>
> 1. Changes to the current rc order need to have a very solid and well
> thought out rationale which includes a detailed cost/benefit analysis
> since historically it's been difficult to anticipate all of the
> potential fallout from a change, and we don't want to violate POLA.
>
> 2. You are stating a problem case whose cost does not sound compelling
> to me, both because I personally don't think "fixing" it would provide
> much value, and because it would cause a significant change in the
> current order which inevitably brings a great deal of cost (whether
> those costs can eventually be ameliorated or not).
>
> 3. The burden is on the one requesting a change to demonstrate its
> benefit. Saying "it's a problem and needs to be fixed" (not
> accompanied by patches) could also be considered "lame." :)
>
> 4. My analysis of the potential costs and benefits might well be
> wrong, which is why I'd like some other people to weigh in.
>
> To summarize, I am not saying I don't think it's a problem. I'm saying
> that we need more discussion to determine what the problem actually
> is, what solutions are available, and at what cost.
I have _already_ demonstrated a need--the way things currently are ANY
privsep/chroot application started prior to syslogd will NEVER log any
messages. I noticed this because of dhclient (and wpa_supplicant which
very shortly will be logging msgs to syslog) but I expect there are
other services if you look and I wouldn't be the least surprised if more
get added (does named work?).
I didn't expect a fix to be simple; if it were I'd have just done it
myself. Saying "fix it your self and send us a patch" is worse than lame.
Sam
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