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Date:      Tue, 12 May 2020 15:11:11 +0300
From:      Yuri Pankov <ypankov@fastmail.com>
To:        Tomasz CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info>, Maciej Suszko <maciej@suszko.eu>
Cc:        FreeBSD Questions Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Microsoft Teams for Linux
Message-ID:  <cacb820a-4545-5957-c001-d558967da8ed@fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM8r67B_256W289Qu0ZhQfGut9KO0Oisk=OZ8y9AK3jMmWm+rw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <b64d57e2-f4d7-7618-c711-6501a652a6ac@suszko.eu> <20200505093624.00001df2@seibercom.net> <223da1b3-a83d-b2e8-36dc-468dcb219305@suszko.eu> <db68d8c4-cf3e-5a2f-63d9-f16f0b4f9559@lidstrom.eu> <fecdd83b-2061-a6c0-f927-c380cbc2b500@suszko.eu> <a0828175-6f75-92c4-ab48-bfd395e1a91d@suszko.eu> <ce6fe689-777f-7285-3483-76fb73ea3e82@suszko.eu> <f3a86f00-7e81-ec9d-2f29-c4d9bc3e0094@lidstrom.eu> <b28e6141-04bc-4f66-93e3-658929500c0c@suszko.eu> <CAM8r67Boe0dQt+1T8rdoubxNKaeDCaQ5UkY1nThM8UahF=WU3g@mail.gmail.com> <64a1fede-6c08-6361-9486-4be4f7db7d0a@suszko.eu> <CAM8r67B_256W289Qu0ZhQfGut9KO0Oisk=OZ8y9AK3jMmWm+rw@mail.gmail.com>

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Tomasz CEDRO wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:13 AM Maciej Suszko wrote:
>> On 5/8/20 3:23 PM, Tomasz CEDRO wrote:
>>> I despise Microsoft.. but Google today switched my meetings from
>>> Google Hangouts to google Meet.. and NOTHING works anymore on Firefox
>>> / FreeBSD.
> 
> By the way this is the outcome of "enforcing changes is the software
> development according to Microsoft" that I heard around 2008 when some
> UX moron removed menu from toolbar from GIMP and because "no other
> program had it that way". Now the same kind of morons removed BGE from
> Blender. Another moron recently implemented Profile Downgrade
> Protection in Firefox, the dirtiest of dirty corporate tricks, that
> effectively prevents you from using your own data in this Open-Source
> software so you cannot roll back to a version that does not have a
> nasty bug that breaks videoconferencing distrurbing your everyday
> work.

Well, calling developers "moron" isn't something that is going to get 
you additional support.

>> Few weeks ago I used Google Hangouts on Firefox on my FreeBSD desktop
>> and everything worked out of the box, it's sad it's all moving towards
>> one and only operating system. In the past it was a lot easier to run
>> Linux stuff using linux compat layer, nowadays I feel it's impossible in
>> most cases... Wine always had problems as far as I remember, so I bet on
>> linuxulator :)
> 
> Google at least (still) stands for and develops Open-Source. This
> recent bug we have identified as Firefox bug that breaks all
> videoconferencing. But the solution is out there already created in
> just two days :-)

It looks like you are stuck in ~2005, with all the Microsoft bashing and 
Google appraising.  Things have changed drastically over the years, 
Microsoft is much more friendlier to open source now (and if it gets 
them profit, all the better, I don't really care) and Google is just 
another lock-in vendor, I have stopped using their products completely 
except for web search, which I still find giving me the best results.

> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=246363
> 
> 
>> Going back to Temas, which I need to use at work as it's our official
>> communication platform - I can make it up to choppy sound in some
>> situations but not working microphone is no go, I wonder what's the
>> problem and how to debug that.
> 
> I noticed the same issues with Zoom, maybe the cause is similar. I
> found it working in Chromium. The camera support in Chromium showed up
> recently. For audio I had to recompile Chromium with PulseAudio
> support. The sketchy sound may be the last problem to solve here and
> some codecs may need to be fine-tuned  :-)
> 
> I would also report that issue to the MS and see what their real
> support for Open-Source is :-)
> 
> 
> And from another message below to keep it compact :-)
> 
>> The question is why "all" the providers do not want to support FreeBSD,
> 
> For me the FreeBSD is the only real open-source and standards
> validator because if something works here it is really free and works
> everywhere else :-)
> 
> 
>> is it really such a nightmare to compile some source and give a binary
>> to people?
> 
> No, the sources should be always available to the people and work out
> of the box :-)
> 
> We do not accept binary blobs here this is another evil approach to
> control you and its not Open-Source at all if you cannot see the code
> and compile it yourself from scratch :-)

Who are "we"?  FreeBSD doesn't seem to be the choice of those "purists", 
you'll have to go Debian for that, I think.

>> Maybe we need to have some sort of developer toolkit for
>> software providers, to make their life easier building stuff for FreeBSD.
> 
> Yes its called POSIX, BSD, GNU, its already out there for tens of
> years available for free :-)

How are "BSD" and "GNU" related to any kind of "developer toolkit"? 
POSIX is important, yes, but there are a lot of things it doesn't cover, 
and it's not the base platform functions that are the problem for 
porting anything.



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