From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 1 16:52:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FCC3106564A; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:52:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3418FC17; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:52:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa07 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q21GQOQa030996; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 10:52:22 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.15]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 13absqrbgy-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 01 Mar 2012 10:52:22 -0600 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 1 Mar 2012 10:52:21 -0600 From: Devin Teske To: "'Andriy Gapon'" References: <4F26CC5A.2070501@FreeBSD.org> <4F4C0600.2000903@FreeBSD.org> <3BA1B476-ED05-4E8E-8DFA-0B06EFB48867@samsco.org> <201202280846.08966.jhb@freebsd.org> <4F4F35B9.5090308@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F4F35B9.5090308@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 08:52:31 -0800 Message-ID: <06bb01ccf7cb$b255a200$1700e600$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLEjfzJ7eGDusxFSn76rGzI0P/AwwHL8N43AisSv0ECK+W+iQGLJ1u/AMLV7ICUIvBUkA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-01_03:2012-03-01, 2012-03-01, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, 'Devin Teske' , 'John Baldwin' Subject: RE: revisiting tunables under Safe Mode menu option X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 16:52:42 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andriy Gapon [mailto:avg@FreeBSD.org] > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 AM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: John Baldwin; freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Scott Long; Devin Teske > Subject: Re: revisiting tunables under Safe Mode menu option > > on 01/03/2012 03:34 Devin Teske said the following: > > > > +1 on keeping the menu items loosely entwined (ACPI stands alone, but Safe > > Mode knows about ACPI but only acts on it when being enabled). > > Can you explain why? > +1 for having both menu items and each doing its own thing without any > entanglement :-) > First, I realize that this may sound entirely *dumb*, but here-goes: In transitioning from an old release (sans-menu; 4.11 for example) to a newer release (with menu; 6.x for example), one of the first thing that is noticed is "Safe Mode". I know that when I first saw this, I scratched my head and wondered what it did and what it might be useful for. To this day, I still have never used it. When I created the new menu for 9.x/higher, I had to rewrite that portion of the code and eventually learned what Safe Mode does when used. Still can't say that I've ever used it, however, at the point that I saw that it disabled ACPI among other things, that it is more of a blanket option for anything and everything that might be useful if/when you're having problems (*cough* still can't say that I've ever used it, as when I have problems I'm usually slogging through the kernel code, not relying on safe mode to fix some problem). That being said, I felt that it was a huge improvement to the UI to have the Safe Mode option divulge a little bit of its secret by visibly diddling the ACPI menu item (giving a clue to people that *haven't* read the code that this option is indeed not independent but instead conglomerate in-nature). Indeed, I've watched field engineers when exploring the menu options and their eyes light-up when they see that "Safe Mode" toggles ACPI off when enabled. Extrapolating on their surprise, they appear to have an "Aha!"-moment as previously... this field engineer had no idea what on God's green Earth what "Safe Mode" did (or didn't) as he didn't know about "kenv" and certainly couldn't read "Forth". At that point, he may not have had a full understanding of all the options that Safe Mode diddled, but at that point he at least knew that Safe Mode is a multi-option that does many things -- which is more than 6.x, 7.x, or 8.x ever offered which simply boots immediately the Safe Mode option is selected and does nothing to explain what it is that Safe Mode is doing (which would in-turn properly calibrate the user's expectations). Making the menu items completely independent would be take away the (however slight) above value-add that was brought in by entwining these two menu-items. I'm not saying that this would be a grave travesty, but would in-fact be a value-loss. -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.