Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:56:28 -0400 From: Lawrence Sica <lomifeh@earthlink.net> To: Rich Morin <rdm@cfcl.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What can FreeBSD learn from Mac OS X? Message-ID: <B993D88C.650%lomifeh@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <p05111b09b993fde2e355@[192.168.254.205]>
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On 08/29/02 01:35 PM, "Rich Morin" <rdm@cfcl.com> wrote: > Like many others on this list, I am distressed by the trolling and > flamage I've been seeing recently. OTOH, I think there are a few > real issues that merit discussion, hidden in the noise. > > Specifically, I am concerned that FreeBSD is in danger of becoming > marginalized by Linux on one side and Mac OS X on the other. As a > happy FreeBSD user for the last several years, I'm not enthralled > by this prospect. > I am not sure I see it as being marginalized. I think the userbase has grown recently. > One problem is that nobody has taken on the role of supporting > FreeBSD as a production system. The current (eg, CVS) machinery > works fine for folks who like to fiddle with the source code, but > it is ill-suited for folks, like me, who simply want a reliable > system and minimal maintenance headaches. FreeBSD is fine as a production system. It is not perfect but it is getting better. Most tasks on FreeBSD from a a maintenance perspective are minimal. The various periodic scripts save me loads of time as does the ports system. CVSUP is a good way of updating, though I agree it is time consuming to do. > > The Mac OS X system of binary updates, while imperfect, gives me bug > fixes for security and other critical issues, without requiring me > to get involved with maintaining a source tree, doing builds, etc. > I agree here, FreeBSD would benefit from a binary update system, similar to OSX's. If FreeBSD could mimic this both the command line and the gui for whoever wants to use either that would be great. I wish I had the technical expertise to do so :). I am working on that heh. > FreeBSD has very good engineering. If it had the right "productizing", > it might well be able to steal some folks from the Linux camp. I'd > like to see this happen, but I don't see anyone taking on the task. In > fact, I don't even see a separate mailing list for freebsd-release! I think productizing has made things worse for Linux actually. Linux needs to decide what it wants to be. The conflicts and the hype hurt more than help (but I digress). > > More generally, I'd like the FreeBSD community to consider the question > of how it should respond to the advent of Mac OS X. It's clear that > a lot of techies are getting interested in OSX; half of the laptops > at the recent OSCON and USENIX were running it. Some of these folks > were already BSD fans; others may come from the Linux camp, etc. > Well I have a tiBook and I love it. FreeBSD is part of OS X on some levels so it has some comfortable knobs. That said I still use FreeBSD on the server end and do not see me changing that. OS X server I cannot comment on though the hardware does look pretty heh. > If you're using OSX on your Macs, it may make sense to use FreeBSD on your > Intel boxes, to get the same command set, etc. How can we encourage this? > What issues (interoperability, porting, ...) need to be addressed to make > FreeBSD the "right choice" for this sort of mixed environment? > I think porting of apps would be a big thing. As is the ability to work well with os x. this should not be to hard I would think considering they share some of the same base. > Finally, should the FreeBSD community try to work with the Darwin folks? > The kernel aside, Intel-based Darwin is a pretty vanilla FreeBSD system. > Shouldn't we be doing some sort of outreach? I thought there was some back and forth. The Darwin lists often reference FreeBSD for things. I am not sure what is official but there is some back and forth. Also remember it is in apples best interests to keep FreeBSD going at least in the short term. I do not think apple would try and push FreeBSD out of the market. Overall though what it is is proof that unix can be successful given the right backing. Imagine if a company like apple decided to push pure FreeBSD systems. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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