From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 23 12:49:26 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D239E10656A9 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:49:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@too1337.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDEE8FC14 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwj23 with SMTP id 23so2389920gwj.13 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.67.4 with SMTP id p4mr5302487yba.28.1282567764691; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from macbook.susnet (ip68-99-10-223.om.om.cox.net [68.99.10.223]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q3sm7236369ybe.2.2010.08.23.05.49.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C726E51.4000605@too1337.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:49:21 -0500 From: Steven Susbauer User-Agent: Postbox Express 1.0.1 (Macintosh/20100705) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garry References: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> In-Reply-To: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Is this bunk. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:49:26 -0000 Garry wrote: > Mac OS X is basically BSD that's been appleised (serious vendor lock-in), > they do give a little back to BSDs, but have made sure that BSDs can't get > much off of them, but they can get a lot out of BSD. > > Also, Windows uses (or used to use) a BSD stack for networking for > instance. The Darwin core is a hybrid of Mach/BSD (xnu). The Darwin core is open source, and you can download the open source tools they use (and in cases such as CUPS, own and develop) from http://www.apple.com/opensource/ or http://www.opensource.apple.com/. To say they have given nothing back is untrue, they make their changes available which is not required, but that doesn't mean they're actually being used by the community. Their graphical system on top of Darwin is proprietary, but it is possible to build Darwin using the source code provided by Apple. There is only vendor lock in if you choose to use applications which only work in their graphical environment, but for most things that would cause vendor lock-in, they are either open source or available on multiple platforms. It's interesting you mention how Apple doesn't give back, as it has also been the case with Linux and related projects borrowing code from BSD and then "not giving back" by proving changes under an incompatible license. This has been discussed at length on the lists of some BSD project with an outspoken leader... Also, Linux and GPL software is not immune from the "Apple treatment". Android uses the Dalvik VM for all of the software, and Dalvik is under the Apache license which allows for proprietary uses. You should notice this is definitely used to the fullest by cell phone vendors as they release source code for the kernel only. How is it Apple releases more code than is available for your typical Android device? > > This does not mean to say that I have a problem with the quality of the code > in BSD, I just feel that the license is counter productive. The "productive" hope is that good code will be used, and people will not write bad code instead due to overly restrictive licenses preventing them from using said good code.