From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 1:23: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C0037B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A2343E75 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noackjr@rice.edu) Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:16:27 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Jon Noack" To: Subject: i am not a wimp Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:16:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2002 08:16:27.0811 (UTC) FILETIME=[64043F30:01C2410F] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A little background is in order. I sent an email to a girl in order to ascertain if she was interested in the possibility of dating me. I considered this to be a wimpy action, as a "real man" would've asked her in person. Her response (to my included proclamation of wimpiness) is below (her response to the email in general was along the lines of "I wouldn't date a wimp at this point in my life" -- I can just hear Lloyd in Dumb and Dumber: "So you're saying there's a chance..."): "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements be retracted. :)" I guess -chat is as close to "the editor" as I can think of, so here goes... To whom it may concern: The purpose of this letter is to inform you that I, a person accused of being a wimp by none other than myself, am not *actually* a wimp. Furthermore, I recant from my earlier statements. I have been reminded of the many non-wimpy traits I possess (numbering things is most notably not one of them): 1) I have voluntarily jumped out of an aircraft. 2) I have unarmed combat training (thanks to the US Air For... doh!!!). 3) Elsewhere in that email she called me "one of the gir..." DOH!!!. OK, fine. I am not a wimp because I skydived/skydove/went_skydiving. There. And I can beat you up. Yeah, I've taken out a completely drunk guy when I was sober. It was awesome... Sincerely, Jon Noack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 1:32:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4457E37B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9275B43E42 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noackjr@compgeek.com) Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:32:49 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Jon Noack" To: Subject: i am not a wimp (will this account work? the other didn't seem to...) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:32:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c24111$ab016500$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2002 08:32:49.0967 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD6D5BF0:01C24111] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A little background is in order. I sent an email to a girl in order to ascertain if she was interested in the possibility of dating me. I considered this to be a wimpy action, as a "real man" would've asked her in person. Her response (to my included proclamation of wimpiness) is below (her response to the email in general was along the lines of "I wouldn't date a wimp at this point in my life" -- I can just hear Lloyd in Dumb and Dumber: "So you're saying there's a chance..."): "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements be retracted. :)" I guess -chat is as close to "the editor" as I can think of, so here goes... To whom it may concern: The purpose of this letter is to inform you that I, a person accused of being a wimp by none other than myself, am not *actually* a wimp. Furthermore, I recant from my earlier statements. I have been reminded of the many non-wimpy traits I possess (numbering things is most notably not one of them): 1) I have voluntarily jumped out of an aircraft. 2) I have unarmed combat training (thanks to the US Air For... doh!!!). 3) Elsewhere in that email she called me "one of the gir..." DOH!!!. OK, fine. I am not a wimp because I skydived/skydove/went_skydiving. There. And I can beat you up. Yeah, I've taken out a completely drunk guy when I was sober. It was awesome... Sincerely, Jon Noack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 1:38:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6390037B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF89543E42 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noackjr@rice.edu) Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:38:45 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Jon Noack" To: Subject: why? Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:38:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c24112$7f3769f0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2002 08:38:45.0154 (UTC) FILETIME=[81229820:01C24112] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org why does it post immediately and reliably from one account when it takes forever to post the other (and then only about half the time)? both emails are sent through the same client and the same smtp server. i wish i didn't have to use Microsoft for work -- i think this is another of bill's tricks... jon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 7:54:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0628F37B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 07:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail19b.rapidsite.net (mail19b.rapidsite.net [161.58.134.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 499EE43E42 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 07:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rob@pythonemproject.com) Received: from www.pythonemproject.com (198.104.176.109) by mail19b.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 0101817862; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D567AA0.38174AD2@pythonemproject.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 07:54:24 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: noackjr@rice.edu, "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: why? References: <000801c24112$7f3769f0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jon Noack wrote: > > why does it post immediately and reliably from one account when it takes > forever to post the other (and then only about half the time)? both > emails are sent through the same client and the same smtp server. i > wish i didn't have to use Microsoft for work -- i think this is another > of bill's tricks... > > jon > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message RE: your other two posts: Wimps dont't use FreeBSD, so your OK with me :) Sincerely, Rob. -- ----------------------------- The Numeric Python EM Project www.pythonemproject.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 11:37:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB20137B401 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hardtime.linuxman.net (hardtime.linuxman.net [66.147.26.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32FA43E75 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:37:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gh@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hardtime.linuxman.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7BIjuj25101; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:45:58 -0500 Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 1012) id BC1A61F04; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:37:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:37:07 -0500 From: dmk To: Rob Cc: noackjr@rice.edu, "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Wimps on FreeBSD WAS: Re: why? Message-ID: <20020811183707.GQ22625@over-yonder.net> References: <000801c24112$7f3769f0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <3D567AA0.38174AD2@pythonemproject.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D567AA0.38174AD2@pythonemproject.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i-fullermd.1 X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 07:54:24AM -0700 I heard the voice of Rob, and lo! it spake thus: [...] > > Wimps dont't use FreeBSD, so your OK with me :) Sincerely, Rob. *cough* OS X *cough* (Just kidding, Jordan...and others.) 8-) dan (Was that too far? Nah...) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 11:40:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5596E37B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vienna9.his.com (vienna9.his.com [216.200.68.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683E643E5E for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:40:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.60] (root@[127.0.0.1]) by vienna9.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g7BIe4O25626; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000801c24112$7f3769f0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> References: <000801c24112$7f3769f0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:38:34 +0200 To: , From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: why? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 3:38 AM -0500 2002/08/11, Jon Noack wrote: > why does it post immediately and reliably from one account when it takes > forever to post the other (and then only about half the time)? It all depends on the server and the route that the message is taking. Then your come-back copy depends on the return path. > both > emails are sent through the same client and the same smtp server. i > wish i didn't have to use Microsoft for work -- i think this is another > of bill's tricks... Let's look at the headers of the first message, specifically at the date/time stamps: | Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.18]) by | mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F7205572F; | Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from | owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Okay, the message was submitted at 03:16:27 -0500, and here it's already been received by the FreeBSD machines, passed through the mailing list server, and on it's way back out within six-and-a-half minutes. That is, assuming that all servers are in perfect time sync. If they're not, the overall end-to-end time could easily be just a matter of a few seconds. | Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org | (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) | by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A2343E75 | for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:22:59 -0700 (PDT) | (envelope-from noackjr@rice.edu) This would seem to be the place where most of the delay occurred. However, it would be difficult to determine what caused the delay. It could be a problem with the sending system, or it could be a problem with the receiving system. But without more information (including the logs of both the sending & receiving systems), it's hard to tell what was the real cause. | Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with | Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:16:27 -0500 And that's the original submission. Now, let's look at the headers of the second message: | Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.18]) by | mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F83A55B10; Sun, 11 Aug | 2002 01:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from | owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Well, this message was received, processed, and re-transmitted in just five seconds, if you believe the time stamps. | Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with | Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:32:49 -0500 Here's the original message submission. Looking at the other headers (which I omitted), it would appear that the paths are pretty much identical between the two messages. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 12:21:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833AB37B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4E243E6E for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noackjr@compgeek.com) Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:21:07 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Jon Noack" To: "'Brad Knowles'" Cc: Subject: RE: why? Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:21:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c2416c$3c672020$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2002 19:21:07.0749 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E4FDD50:01C2416C] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thanks for the info -- yeah, although i realize now that i was being ambiguous, i meant why does the smtp server take so long to send messages from the one account (and sometimes doesn't seem to send them at all -- no longer in the queue but never arrive at destination) while the other goes immediately. the delay is definitely at the smtp server, but i haven't quite figured out why it takes 6+ minutes to process a message that is queued while i sent other messages that were immediately processed as soon as they hit the queue. oh well, looks like i should setup a freebsd box for smtp instead of using the windows box from work... thanks again, jon -----Original Message----- From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be] Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:39 PM To: noackjr@rice.edu; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why? At 3:38 AM -0500 2002/08/11, Jon Noack wrote: > why does it post immediately and reliably from one account when it > takes forever to post the other (and then only about half the time)? It all depends on the server and the route that the message is taking. Then your come-back copy depends on the return path. > both > emails are sent through the same client and the same smtp server. i > wish i didn't have to use Microsoft for work -- i think this is > another of bill's tricks... Let's look at the headers of the first message, specifically at the date/time stamps: | Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.18]) by | mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F7205572F; | Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from | owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Okay, the message was submitted at 03:16:27 -0500, and here it's already been received by the FreeBSD machines, passed through the mailing list server, and on it's way back out within six-and-a-half minutes. That is, assuming that all servers are in perfect time sync. If they're not, the overall end-to-end time could easily be just a matter of a few seconds. | Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org | (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) | by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A2343E75 | for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:22:59 -0700 (PDT) | (envelope-from noackjr@rice.edu) This would seem to be the place where most of the delay occurred. However, it would be difficult to determine what caused the delay. It could be a problem with the sending system, or it could be a problem with the receiving system. But without more information (including the logs of both the sending & receiving systems), it's hard to tell what was the real cause. | Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with | Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:16:27 -0500 And that's the original submission. Now, let's look at the headers of the second message: | Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.18]) by | mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F83A55B10; Sun, 11 Aug | 2002 01:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from | owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Well, this message was received, processed, and re-transmitted in just five seconds, if you believe the time stamps. | Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with | Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:32:49 -0500 Here's the original message submission. Looking at the other headers (which I omitted), it would appear that the paths are pretty much identical between the two messages. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* tv+z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 12:55:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F43437B411 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patriarch.dnsalias.org (adsl-65-69-3-83.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [65.69.3.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388D843E72 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noackjr@compgeek.com) Received: from COMPGEEK ([127.0.0.1]) by patriarch.dnsalias.org with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.2600.1); Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Jon Noack" To: "'Brad Knowles'" Cc: Subject: RE: why? Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:55:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c24171$0544cca0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2002 19:55:23.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[07A4DCB0:01C24171] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I guess the reason it piqued my curiosity is that I only have delays with the one account (really, the only difference is what email address is listed as the 'from' and 'reply' -- everything else is the same). This has been happening for the last few days and I find it an odd coincidence. A type=MX nameserver lookup responds instantly with the correct info, although it may very well be that the SMTP server is getting a timeout on DNS. I'll check the logs when I get a chance (I'm the Unix admin, not the Windows one thank God). Speaking of which, any good alternatives to Exchange (calendar and meeting stuff required)? Jon -----Original Message----- From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be] Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 2:43 PM To: noackjr@compgeek.com; 'Brad Knowles' Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: why? At 2:21 PM -0500 2002/08/11, Jon Noack wrote: > thanks for the info -- yeah, although i realize now that i was being > ambiguous, i meant why does the smtp server take so long to send > messages from the one account (and sometimes doesn't seem to send them > at all -- no longer in the queue but never arrive at destination) > while the other goes immediately. the delay is definitely at the > smtp server, but i haven't quite figured out why it takes 6+ minutes > to process a message that is queued while i sent other messages that > were immediately processed as soon as they hit the queue. It's hard to say. It could take a while to look up information in the DNS, or one nameserver you use may be heavily loaded and respond very slowly, there are any number of reasons why something could easily be delayed just five or six minutes. If things were delayed multiple hours, I might be a bit more concerned. Remember -- e-mail is store-and-forward, and it may easily take many hours for the message to arrive. Don't depend on things being delivered instantaneously, because that almost certainly won't happen every time. > oh well, looks like i > should setup a freebsd box for smtp instead of using the windows box > from work... A FreeBSD box may or may not help in this regard. I think that FreeBSD would be a much better choice for a lot of reasons, but if the Windows box is properly configured and very lightly loaded, it may be difficult to configure a FreeBSD machine to be that much faster. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* tv+z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 14:29:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB40537B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422F043E65 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:29:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from sparx.pantherdragon.org (evrtwa1-ar10-4-61-252-210.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net [4.61.252.210]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B41FFF3D; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by sparx.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A85BAB04; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D56D734.3DFAD04B@pantherdragon.org> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:29:24 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: noackjr@compgeek.com Cc: 'Brad Knowles' , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why? References: <000001c2416c$3c672020$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jon Noack wrote: > > thanks for the info -- yeah, although i realize now that i was being > ambiguous, i meant why does the smtp server take so long to send > messages from the one account (and sometimes doesn't seem to send them > at all -- no longer in the queue but never arrive at destination) while > the other goes immediately. the delay is definitely at the smtp server, > but i haven't quite figured out why it takes 6+ minutes to process a > message that is queued while i sent other messages that were immediately > processed as soon as they hit the queue. DNS issues? A bug in the access lists and/or the lookup routines? Some stray bogon caused a bitfart in a router along the way, corrupting a packet, hanging the connection, which was then was zombied for the typical TCP timeout of around 60 seconds before the server grasped the concept, shotgunned the zombie, and requeued the email with a five minute delay? Or did you say this is a regular occurance? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 14:32:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B0537B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aline.bs2.com.br (aline.bs2.com.br [200.203.159.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C81043E6A for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tirloni@aline.bs2.com.br) Received: from aline.bs2.com.br (IDENT:gpt@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aline.bs2.com.br (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7BLWR3b030181 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:32:27 -0300 (BRT) (envelope-from tirloni@aline.bs2.com.br) Received: (from tirloni@localhost) by aline.bs2.com.br (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g7BLWNDE030149 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:32:23 -0300 (BRT) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:32:22 -0300 From: "Giovanni P. Tirloni" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Release usage Message-ID: <20020811183222.A70668@aline.bs2.com.br> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-Info: http://www.tirloni.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Does anyone know where the numbers on the FreeBSD release usage site (www.freebsd.org/statistic/release_usage) come from ? -- Giovanni P. Tirloni gpt@tirloni.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 15:58:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E62037B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F2AB43E42 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0097.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.97] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17e1fV-0000YT-00; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:58:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3D56EBEA.6317049D@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:57:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Giovanni P. Tirloni" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Release usage References: <20020811183222.A70668@aline.bs2.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Giovanni P. Tirloni" wrote: > Does anyone know where the numbers on the FreeBSD release usage > site (www.freebsd.org/statistic/release_usage) come from ? It's from "analog 5.1" analysis of the HTTP logs, I believe... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 19:54:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF07D37B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vienna9.his.com (vienna9.his.com [216.200.68.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1941A43E65 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.60] (root@[127.0.0.1]) by vienna9.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g7BJhPO05977; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001c2416c$3c672020$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> References: <000001c2416c$3c672020$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:43:06 +0200 To: , "'Brad Knowles'" From: Brad Knowles Subject: RE: why? Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:21 PM -0500 2002/08/11, Jon Noack wrote: > thanks for the info -- yeah, although i realize now that i was being > ambiguous, i meant why does the smtp server take so long to send > messages from the one account (and sometimes doesn't seem to send them > at all -- no longer in the queue but never arrive at destination) while > the other goes immediately. the delay is definitely at the smtp server, > but i haven't quite figured out why it takes 6+ minutes to process a > message that is queued while i sent other messages that were immediately > processed as soon as they hit the queue. It's hard to say. It could take a while to look up information in the DNS, or one nameserver you use may be heavily loaded and respond very slowly, there are any number of reasons why something could easily be delayed just five or six minutes. If things were delayed multiple hours, I might be a bit more concerned. Remember -- e-mail is store-and-forward, and it may easily take many hours for the message to arrive. Don't depend on things being delivered instantaneously, because that almost certainly won't happen every time. > oh well, looks like i should > setup a freebsd box for smtp instead of using the windows box from > work... A FreeBSD box may or may not help in this regard. I think that FreeBSD would be a much better choice for a lot of reasons, but if the Windows box is properly configured and very lightly loaded, it may be difficult to configure a FreeBSD machine to be that much faster. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 11 20:29:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C96637B400 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vienna9.his.com (vienna9.his.com [216.200.68.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3C143E6A for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.60] (root@[127.0.0.1]) by vienna9.his.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g7BLdSO25710; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101c24171$0544cca0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> References: <000101c24171$0544cca0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:37:51 +0200 To: , "'Brad Knowles'" From: Brad Knowles Subject: RE: why? Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 2:55 PM -0500 2002/08/11, Jon Noack wrote: > Speaking of which, any > good alternatives to Exchange (calendar and meeting stuff required)? For the calendaring stuff, try Bynari or Amphora. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 6: 5: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F62A37B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A32743E65 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:05:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CD1H904246; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g7CD1Hh24699; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CD1Do24687; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:01:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:01:13 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: noackjr@rice.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems that a lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those people.. Eric Jon Noack wrote: > "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. > Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements > be retracted. :)" -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 7:41:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65E937B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (mail19a.dulles19-verio.com [161.58.134.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA27143E6A for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rob@pythonemproject.com) Received: from www.pythonemproject.com (198.104.176.109) by mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 0178850937; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D57C42F.FD20F17@pythonemproject.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 07:20:31 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: noackjr@rice.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ever since I fell out of a tree at age 12 (30ft or more) and bruised a kidney, heights have never been the same. Though I did once climb another tree to put up a ham antenna. I think skydiving might be a way to get over this. But I do run -current on another slice, so that eliminates me from the wimp category :) :) Sincerely, Rob. Eric Anderson wrote: > > Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems that a > lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those > people.. > > Eric > > Jon Noack wrote: > > "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. > > Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements > > be retracted. :)" > ----------------------------- The Numeric Python EM Project www.pythonemproject.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8: 4:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1252237B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clink.schulte.org (clink.schulte.org [209.134.156.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC9443E42 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schulte+freebsd@nospam.schulte.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F127F24417; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:04:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from schulte-laptop.nospam.schulte.org (carpnod.schulte.org [209.134.156.200]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2698243CF; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:04:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20020812094859.01a74e68@localhost> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:03:33 -0500 To: Eric Anderson From: Christopher Schulte Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre6 on clink.schulte.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:01 AM 8/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems that a >lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those >people.. I was working on getting my AFF certification last summer, but fell out of motivation to finish it. Not due to fear, mind you. :-) Skydiving is a lot of fun. One downside is after the first jump amusement parks really lose their adrenaline factor. I mean, come on. 120mph freefall from 12,500 feet? What can compare? My view of the world was forever changed. I recommend it to anyone medically able. You'll lose your fear of heights. :-p >Eric > >Jon Noack wrote: > > "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. > > Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements > > be retracted. :)" > >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology >The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. >------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Christopher Schulte http://www.schulte.org/ Do not un-munge my @nospam.schulte.org email address. This address is valid. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8:23:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48A337B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59B343E4A for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CFN9907495; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:23:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g7CFN8g04851; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:23:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CFN5o04844; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:23:05 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Schulte Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <5.1.1.6.2.20020812094859.01a74e68@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just finished my AFF, and am now cleared for solo and whatever else I wanna try. It is definitely a life changing event. I was very afraid of heights prior to skydiving, but it's almost completely gone now. You're right tho - once you skydive a few times, nothing else is even really on the same scale. It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to the sport of skydiving. Eric Christopher Schulte wrote: > > At 08:01 AM 8/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems that a > >lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those > >people.. > > I was working on getting my AFF certification last summer, but fell out > of motivation to finish it. Not due to fear, mind you. :-) > > Skydiving is a lot of fun. One downside is after the first jump > amusement parks really lose their adrenaline factor. I mean, > come on. 120mph freefall from 12,500 feet? What can compare? > > My view of the world was forever changed. > > I recommend it to anyone medically able. > You'll lose your fear of heights. :-p > > >Eric > > > >Jon Noack wrote: > > > "A person who has been skydiving is not allowed to call himself a wimp. > > > Thus, please submit a letter to the editor asking that your statements > > > be retracted. :)" > > > >-- > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology > >The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > Christopher Schulte > http://www.schulte.org/ > Do not un-munge my @nospam.schulte.org > email address. This address is valid. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8:25:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0ABB37B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDC043E42 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E8613F28; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:25:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Eric Anderson Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:26:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3D579B57.19861.36ACBDA3@localhost> In-reply-to: <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Aug 2002 at 10:23, Eric Anderson wrote: > It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to the sport > of skydiving. And to mountain biking.... -- Dan Langille I'm looking for a computer job: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8:35:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D0037B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clink.schulte.org (clink.schulte.org [209.134.156.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11C343E6E for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schulte+freebsd@nospam.schulte.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B458824417; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:35:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from schulte-laptop.nospam.schulte.org (carpnod.schulte.org [209.134.156.200]) by clink.schulte.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B749B243CF; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:35:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20020812103134.05f96868@localhost> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:35:10 -0500 To: "Dan Langille" , Eric Anderson From: Christopher Schulte Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3D579B57.19861.36ACBDA3@localhost> References: <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre6 on clink.schulte.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:26 AM 8/12/2002 -0400, Dan Langille wrote: >On 12 Aug 2002 at 10:23, Eric Anderson wrote: > > > It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to > the sport > > of skydiving. > >And to mountain biking.... The new geek paradigm; by day technical professionals, by night physically adventurous risk takers out to explore the world and experience all the riches it has to offer. ... ??? >-- >Dan Langille >I'm looking for a computer job: >http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php -- Christopher Schulte http://www.schulte.org/ Do not un-munge my @nospam.schulte.org email address. This address is valid. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8:53:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEBE37B400 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out006.verizon.net (out006pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B7743E6A for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:53:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lsp3@gte.net) Received: from Pentium166 ([4.60.14.79]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20020812155325.NRPM310.out006.verizon.net@Pentium166>; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:53:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c24218$2a064ee0$0201a8c0@Pentium166> From: "Leland" To: "Dan Langille" , "Eric Anderson" , "Christopher Schulte" Cc: References: <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020812103134.05f96868@localhost> Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:51:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to > > the sport > > > of skydiving. > > > >And to mountain biking.... > > The new geek paradigm; by day technical professionals, > by night physically adventurous risk takers out to explore > the world and experience all the riches it has to offer. ... ??? Getting deep. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 8:58:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C8937B407 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from holly.calldei.com (adsl-208-191-149-232.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [208.191.149.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B18A43E75 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: by holly.calldei.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A18E1B65; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:58:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:58:56 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Christopher Schulte Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Message-ID: <20020812155855.GA631@holly.calldei.com> Reply-To: chris@FreeBSD.org References: <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> <5.1.1.6.2.20020812103134.05f96868@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20020812103134.05f96868@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, August 12, 2002, Christopher Schulte wrote: > The new geek paradigm; by day technical professionals, > by night physically adventurous risk takers out to explore > the world and experience all the riches it has to offer. ... ??? Renaissance geeks. -- Chris Costello FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org/ TrustedBSD Project http://www.TrustedBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 14:20:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1223137B401 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (pc-80-194-99-103-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [80.194.99.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A18D43E65 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20]) by crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7CLKNTk003614; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7CLKPhB024166; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g7CLKOXq024165; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:24 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:24 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Eric Anderson Cc: noackjr@rice.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp Message-ID: <20020812212024.GR71774@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0btr6/5+bhBdui6J" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --0btr6/5+bhBdui6J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:01:13AM -0500, Eric Anderson wrote: > Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems th= at a > lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those > people.. You never wondered why the machine that hosts the FreeBSD CVS repository is called 'freefall'. . ? N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --0btr6/5+bhBdui6J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1YJpcACgkQk6gHZCw343VFowCfdEalmSOEyGXsyd69hNPE2vmk WEMAniCeq3YRnIOcu4BPrpcOY1Nzrho1 =UUdr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0btr6/5+bhBdui6J-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 12 14:24:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C7F37B400; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B176643E42; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CLO7916522; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:24:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g7CLO7l03578; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:24:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (proton [10.177.173.77]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CLO4o03566; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:24:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D582773.DD138C2A@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:24:03 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: noackjr@rice.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <3D57B199.C8119284@centtech.com> <20020812212024.GR71774@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org :) I did actually, but thought "Nah, couldn't be". I think I would have a cname of dropzone.freebsd.org -> ftp.freebsd.org. Eric Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 08:01:13AM -0500, Eric Anderson wrote: > > Just curious how many other skydivers there are on this list. It seems that a > > lot of skydivers are techie people for their day jobs.. I'm one of those > > people.. > > You never wondered why the machine that hosts the FreeBSD CVS repository > is called 'freefall'. . ? > > N > -- > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) > FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) > \/ \ ^ > --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/_) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 17:44:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A260637B400; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vectors.cx (manifold.vectors.cx [64.163.147.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F7743E4A; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: from vectors.cx (08ae269941161a15fb8827a30af11dcc@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vectors.cx (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g7E0jF2e098590; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:45:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: (from monkey@localhost) by vectors.cx (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g7E0jFQP098589; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:45:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:45:15 -0700 From: Adam Weinberger To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed Message-ID: <20020814004515.GX2818@vectors.cx> References: <1631.192.168.1.10.1028329834.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020802194944.R95370-100000@earl-grey.cloud9.net> <2534.192.168.1.10.1028334913.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020803004445.GA11182@branwen.sfo.geekhouse.net> <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> X-Editor: Vim 6.1 http://www.vim.org X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5 http://www.mutt.org X-URL: http://www.vectors.cx http://www.crackula.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org this email belongs on freebsd-advocacy, not freebsd-questions nor freebsd-chat. -Adam >> (08.13.2002 @ 1735 PST): John-David Childs said, in 5.9K: << > I was going to let this thread by, but I just can't help it. > > I've been using FreeBSD for almost eight years. Unfortunately, I > haven't been able to contribute as much as I'd like...I keep thinking > that someday soon this will change, especially as I get more and more > pissed at the holier than thou attitude of most people on the questions > and stable lists (as referenced by the example below). > > If you like FreeBSD because it's a niche OS that no one else you work > with knows, or it makes you kewl, or you think it gives you job > security, or you like the little devil, press delete now. If you like > FreeBSD because the VM rocks, the ports/packages system kicks a$$, or > the (until recently) excruciatingly close scrutiny of MFC'd patches and > security issues, and you believe you have a civic duty to "show them the > way", then you're the audience I'm addressing. > > Plain and simple...the reason that Linux is used by 10 people (I'm > probably massively underestimating) for every FreeBSD user (not counting > Apple's marketing campaign) has NOTHING to do with whether it's a better > OS. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Linux is easier to > install *and maintain* than FreeBSD...and most responses on the > questions/stable lists seem to think that's ok ("let the idiots use > Linux, the people who know use *BSD"). The problem with that thinking > is that if "no one" (term used loosely) uses *BSD, then > > 1) getting a user-base large enough to effectively trouble-shoot/improve > the OS becomes difficult. If an up-and-coming programmer/hacker is > looking ahead to which OS is likely to land them a job...it's not going > to be Free/Open/NetBSD. > > 2) getting driver support from commercial entities is next to > impossible. If there aren't enough users to justify demand, it isn't > going to be (cost) effective to write/support it. > > 3) getting support to install it as a server OS in medium-large > (especially non-ISP) based businesses is next to impossible. While *BSD > may have scored some initial successes, and Apple's support of BSD is > admirable (but Apple has always been considered a "niche" player, and > has fsckd-up more "initiatives" than I can count), most corporate > managers whose jobs are on the line will ask themselves "If the shit > hits the fan...". > > Less users = less admins = less programmers = less (corporate) support = > less installations = less demand = less users = > > Granted...I don't want any of the *BSD's to become a RedHat behemoth, > but I would like to not have cream pie thrown in my face every time I > suggest a FreeBSD server. Five years ago, when *BSD and Linux were > roughly neck and neck, it wasn't that hard to sell *BSD on technical > merits. Now...it's all about who will support it when I get hit by a > truck. How easy is it to set up? How easy is it (compared to Linux, > Solaris, SGI, AIX, HPUX, etc) to install and administrate? Can it do > clusters? Can it (natively) participate in a SAN? Is there a > commercial package for VLAN support? How 'bout a commercial firewall? > (Yes, I know and you know that ipf/ipfw/TIS does the job, but once we > leave the company the next admin either has to spend days/weeks learning > ipf/ipfw or s/he'll trash it immediately, bad-mouthing your stupid > decisions all the way up the management chain). > > And it all starts with a (relatively) easy to use installer (sysinstall > has gotten MUCH better, but still has too many ways to get lost in > TABS/ESC/whoops and still looks infantile to other text-based > installers), and at least the option for a workstation install (not a > "instant workstation" port, which could take hours or days to > compile/install, but an out-of-the-CD installation of Gnome or KDE with > (or without, by choice) popular options (Evolution, > OpenOfffice/Abiword+Gnumeric, etc)). And yes, a "dummy-fied" package > upgrader like RedHat Updater or MandrakeUpdate (which friggin rocks when > you have to update 50 machines across an enterprise). > > BSD'ers have always been a finicky lot, and have always preferred the > RTFM/do-it-yourself approach. That's great...to a point...but > eventually will relegate us to the land of A/UX, CP/M, and OS/2 (now > there's a niche player). "You decide which is right, and which is an > illusion." > > As requested, replies are redirected to freebsd-chat. I'm going to see > about getting some "official" time to work on the installer, or the > docs, or both. Replies directly to my address will be /dev/nulled > because of the list spam collectors...those of you who "know" will be > able to find me :-) > -- > > John-David Childs (JC612) Enterprise Internet Solutions > Systems Administration 9616 Pecos St, Thornton CO 80260 > & Network Engineering A fourth .sig line is a waste! > > > On Fri, 2002-08-02 at 18:44, Jim Mock wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2002 at 20:35:13 -0400, Mike wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > > > >> Stick with videos.. Please. -- > > > > > > > > Very funny. You mean "videoconferencing." And anyways, there is an > > > > expression: "The best of both worlds," you know? > > > > > > "videoconferencing." > > > It's two words. Not one. > > > I know all about you. Your all about SPAM. Besides, ask a stupid > > > question > > > > That would be "You're". If you're going to flame him for > > "videoconferencing" at least spell shit right otherwise you end up > > looking even more stupid than you did for flaming him in the first > > place. > > > > > get a stupid answer. you know? At least get a decent name for this > > > FreeBSD os you want to chop into linux and make it so any sweaty wife > > > beating greaseball can run a "Server" > > > > Enough already. Take this nonsense off list if you want to have a > > bitchfest. There's enough mail that comes through here without having > > to scrape through this garbage too. > > > > - jim > > > > -- > > jim mock jim@FreeBSD.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > >> end of "Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed" from John-David Childs << -- "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw." -Lilo, "Lilo & Stitch" Adam Weinberger adam@vectors.cx http://vectors.cx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 18:12:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2BC37B400 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE5243E72 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@storm2k.com) Received: from user-119a7q7.biz.mindspring.com ([66.149.31.71] helo=athlon.storm2k.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17emhz-0002UN-00; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:12:23 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813190756.00aa2bc8@mail.richardh.wsonline.net> X-Sender: storm2k@mail.storm2k.wsonline.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:15:10 -0600 To: Adam Weinberger , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: RichardH Subject: Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed In-Reply-To: <20020814004515.GX2818@vectors.cx> References: <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> <1631.192.168.1.10.1028329834.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020802194944.R95370-100000@earl-grey.cloud9.net> <2534.192.168.1.10.1028334913.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020803004445.GA11182@branwen.sfo.geekhouse.net> <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A) he is an idiot, FBSD was not designed to play quake or other crap on. B) If he needs to look at a f*ing word doc then either figure out star or open office or stick with Winshit C) show me that big ole RH box running as a web server that will run in excess of 5000 users and not crash, no prob with FBSD if you have a hard enough system and a good line. D) FBSD is designed as a server, not to play quake (again), or to look at hooters on the internet. It provides the hooters to Win users like him :) Please create and move this to freebsd-crap At 06:45 PM 8/13/2002, Adam Weinberger wrote: >this email belongs on freebsd-advocacy, not freebsd-questions nor >freebsd-chat. > >-Adam > > > >> (08.13.2002 @ 1735 PST): John-David Childs said, in 5.9K: << > > I was going to let this thread by, but I just can't help it. > > > > I've been using FreeBSD for almost eight years. Unfortunately, I > > haven't been able to contribute as much as I'd like...I keep thinking > > that someday soon this will change, especially as I get more and more > > pissed at the holier than thou attitude of most people on the questions > > and stable lists (as referenced by the example below). > > > > If you like FreeBSD because it's a niche OS that no one else you work > > with knows, or it makes you kewl, or you think it gives you job > > security, or you like the little devil, press delete now. If you like > > FreeBSD because the VM rocks, the ports/packages system kicks a$$, or > > the (until recently) excruciatingly close scrutiny of MFC'd patches and > > security issues, and you believe you have a civic duty to "show them the > > way", then you're the audience I'm addressing. > > > > Plain and simple...the reason that Linux is used by 10 people (I'm > > probably massively underestimating) for every FreeBSD user (not counting > > Apple's marketing campaign) has NOTHING to do with whether it's a better > > OS. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Linux is easier to > > install *and maintain* than FreeBSD...and most responses on the > > questions/stable lists seem to think that's ok ("let the idiots use > > Linux, the people who know use *BSD"). The problem with that thinking > > is that if "no one" (term used loosely) uses *BSD, then > > > > 1) getting a user-base large enough to effectively trouble-shoot/improve > > the OS becomes difficult. If an up-and-coming programmer/hacker is > > looking ahead to which OS is likely to land them a job...it's not going > > to be Free/Open/NetBSD. > > > > 2) getting driver support from commercial entities is next to > > impossible. If there aren't enough users to justify demand, it isn't > > going to be (cost) effective to write/support it. > > > > 3) getting support to install it as a server OS in medium-large > > (especially non-ISP) based businesses is next to impossible. While *BSD > > may have scored some initial successes, and Apple's support of BSD is > > admirable (but Apple has always been considered a "niche" player, and > > has fsckd-up more "initiatives" than I can count), most corporate > > managers whose jobs are on the line will ask themselves "If the shit > > hits the fan...". > > > > Less users = less admins = less programmers = less (corporate) support = > > less installations = less demand = less users = > > > > Granted...I don't want any of the *BSD's to become a RedHat behemoth, > > but I would like to not have cream pie thrown in my face every time I > > suggest a FreeBSD server. Five years ago, when *BSD and Linux were > > roughly neck and neck, it wasn't that hard to sell *BSD on technical > > merits. Now...it's all about who will support it when I get hit by a > > truck. How easy is it to set up? How easy is it (compared to Linux, > > Solaris, SGI, AIX, HPUX, etc) to install and administrate? Can it do > > clusters? Can it (natively) participate in a SAN? Is there a > > commercial package for VLAN support? How 'bout a commercial firewall? > > (Yes, I know and you know that ipf/ipfw/TIS does the job, but once we > > leave the company the next admin either has to spend days/weeks learning > > ipf/ipfw or s/he'll trash it immediately, bad-mouthing your stupid > > decisions all the way up the management chain). > > > > And it all starts with a (relatively) easy to use installer (sysinstall > > has gotten MUCH better, but still has too many ways to get lost in > > TABS/ESC/whoops and still looks infantile to other text-based > > installers), and at least the option for a workstation install (not a > > "instant workstation" port, which could take hours or days to > > compile/install, but an out-of-the-CD installation of Gnome or KDE with > > (or without, by choice) popular options (Evolution, > > OpenOfffice/Abiword+Gnumeric, etc)). And yes, a "dummy-fied" package > > upgrader like RedHat Updater or MandrakeUpdate (which friggin rocks when > > you have to update 50 machines across an enterprise). > > > > BSD'ers have always been a finicky lot, and have always preferred the > > RTFM/do-it-yourself approach. That's great...to a point...but > > eventually will relegate us to the land of A/UX, CP/M, and OS/2 (now > > there's a niche player). "You decide which is right, and which is an > > illusion." > > > > As requested, replies are redirected to freebsd-chat. I'm going to see > > about getting some "official" time to work on the installer, or the > > docs, or both. Replies directly to my address will be /dev/nulled > > because of the list spam collectors...those of you who "know" will be > > able to find me :-) > > -- > > > > John-David Childs (JC612) Enterprise Internet Solutions > > Systems Administration 9616 Pecos St, Thornton > CO 80260 > > & Network Engineering A fourth .sig line is a > waste! > > > > > > On Fri, 2002-08-02 at 18:44, Jim Mock wrote: > > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2002 at 20:35:13 -0400, Mike wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > > > > >> Stick with videos.. Please. -- > > > > > > > > > > Very funny. You mean "videoconferencing." And anyways, there is an > > > > > expression: "The best of both worlds," you know? > > > > > > > > "videoconferencing." > > > > It's two words. Not one. > > > > I know all about you. Your all about SPAM. Besides, ask a stupid > > > > question > > > > > > That would be "You're". If you're going to flame him for > > > "videoconferencing" at least spell shit right otherwise you end up > > > looking even more stupid than you did for flaming him in the first > > > place. > > > > > > > get a stupid answer. you know? At least get a decent name for this > > > > FreeBSD os you want to chop into linux and make it so any sweaty wife > > > > beating greaseball can run a "Server" > > > > > > Enough already. Take this nonsense off list if you want to have a > > > bitchfest. There's enough mail that comes through here without having > > > to scrape through this garbage too. > > > > > > - jim > > > > > > -- > > > jim mock jim@FreeBSD.org > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > >> end of "Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed" from John-David Childs << > > >-- >"Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw." > -Lilo, "Lilo & Stitch" >Adam Weinberger >adam@vectors.cx >http://vectors.cx > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 18:24:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4119737B400 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vectors.cx (manifold.vectors.cx [64.163.147.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C2643E72 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: from vectors.cx (9a8891bd6a3b035aa85600df00b16994@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vectors.cx (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g7E1P82e098691; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:25:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey@vectors.cx) Received: (from monkey@localhost) by vectors.cx (8.12.4/8.12.4/Submit) id g7E1P8pN098690; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:25:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from monkey) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:25:08 -0700 From: Adam Weinberger To: RichardH Cc: Adam Weinberger , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed Message-ID: <20020814012508.GA2818@vectors.cx> References: <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> <1631.192.168.1.10.1028329834.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020802194944.R95370-100000@earl-grey.cloud9.net> <2534.192.168.1.10.1028334913.squirrel@email.unixhideout.com> <20020803004445.GA11182@branwen.sfo.geekhouse.net> <1029285313.20421.187.camel@lohr.digitalglobe.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020813190756.00aa2bc8@mail.richardh.wsonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813190756.00aa2bc8@mail.richardh.wsonline.net> X-Editor: Vim 6.1 http://www.vim.org X-Mailer: Mutt 1.5 http://www.mutt.org X-URL: http://www.vectors.cx http://www.crackula.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org please do not cc me further on these messages. i feel comfortable in my choice of O/S's, and don't desire to take place in a Unix pissing contest. -Adam >> (08.13.2002 @ 1815 PST): RichardH said, in 7.5K: << > A) he is an idiot, FBSD was not designed to play quake or other crap on. > B) If he needs to look at a f*ing word doc then either figure out star or > open office or stick with Winshit > C) show me that big ole RH box running as a web server that will run in > excess of 5000 users and not crash, no prob with FBSD if you have a hard > enough system and a good line. > D) FBSD is designed as a server, not to play quake (again), or to look at > hooters on the internet. It provides the hooters to Win users like him :) > > Please create and move this to freebsd-crap > > > > At 06:45 PM 8/13/2002, Adam Weinberger wrote: > >this email belongs on freebsd-advocacy, not freebsd-questions nor > >freebsd-chat. > > > >-Adam > > > > > >>> (08.13.2002 @ 1735 PST): John-David Childs said, in 5.9K: << > >> I was going to let this thread by, but I just can't help it. > >> > >> I've been using FreeBSD for almost eight years. Unfortunately, I > >> haven't been able to contribute as much as I'd like...I keep thinking > >> that someday soon this will change, especially as I get more and more > >> pissed at the holier than thou attitude of most people on the questions > >> and stable lists (as referenced by the example below). > >> > >> If you like FreeBSD because it's a niche OS that no one else you work > >> with knows, or it makes you kewl, or you think it gives you job > >> security, or you like the little devil, press delete now. If you like > >> FreeBSD because the VM rocks, the ports/packages system kicks a$$, or > >> the (until recently) excruciatingly close scrutiny of MFC'd patches and > >> security issues, and you believe you have a civic duty to "show them the > >> way", then you're the audience I'm addressing. > >> > >> Plain and simple...the reason that Linux is used by 10 people (I'm > >> probably massively underestimating) for every FreeBSD user (not counting > >> Apple's marketing campaign) has NOTHING to do with whether it's a better > >> OS. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Linux is easier to > >> install *and maintain* than FreeBSD...and most responses on the > >> questions/stable lists seem to think that's ok ("let the idiots use > >> Linux, the people who know use *BSD"). The problem with that thinking > >> is that if "no one" (term used loosely) uses *BSD, then > >> > >> 1) getting a user-base large enough to effectively trouble-shoot/improve > >> the OS becomes difficult. If an up-and-coming programmer/hacker is > >> looking ahead to which OS is likely to land them a job...it's not going > >> to be Free/Open/NetBSD. > >> > >> 2) getting driver support from commercial entities is next to > >> impossible. If there aren't enough users to justify demand, it isn't > >> going to be (cost) effective to write/support it. > >> > >> 3) getting support to install it as a server OS in medium-large > >> (especially non-ISP) based businesses is next to impossible. While *BSD > >> may have scored some initial successes, and Apple's support of BSD is > >> admirable (but Apple has always been considered a "niche" player, and > >> has fsckd-up more "initiatives" than I can count), most corporate > >> managers whose jobs are on the line will ask themselves "If the shit > >> hits the fan...". > >> > >> Less users = less admins = less programmers = less (corporate) support = > >> less installations = less demand = less users = > >> > >> Granted...I don't want any of the *BSD's to become a RedHat behemoth, > >> but I would like to not have cream pie thrown in my face every time I > >> suggest a FreeBSD server. Five years ago, when *BSD and Linux were > >> roughly neck and neck, it wasn't that hard to sell *BSD on technical > >> merits. Now...it's all about who will support it when I get hit by a > >> truck. How easy is it to set up? How easy is it (compared to Linux, > >> Solaris, SGI, AIX, HPUX, etc) to install and administrate? Can it do > >> clusters? Can it (natively) participate in a SAN? Is there a > >> commercial package for VLAN support? How 'bout a commercial firewall? > >> (Yes, I know and you know that ipf/ipfw/TIS does the job, but once we > >> leave the company the next admin either has to spend days/weeks learning > >> ipf/ipfw or s/he'll trash it immediately, bad-mouthing your stupid > >> decisions all the way up the management chain). > >> > >> And it all starts with a (relatively) easy to use installer (sysinstall > >> has gotten MUCH better, but still has too many ways to get lost in > >> TABS/ESC/whoops and still looks infantile to other text-based > >> installers), and at least the option for a workstation install (not a > >> "instant workstation" port, which could take hours or days to > >> compile/install, but an out-of-the-CD installation of Gnome or KDE with > >> (or without, by choice) popular options (Evolution, > >> OpenOfffice/Abiword+Gnumeric, etc)). And yes, a "dummy-fied" package > >> upgrader like RedHat Updater or MandrakeUpdate (which friggin rocks when > >> you have to update 50 machines across an enterprise). > >> > >> BSD'ers have always been a finicky lot, and have always preferred the > >> RTFM/do-it-yourself approach. That's great...to a point...but > >> eventually will relegate us to the land of A/UX, CP/M, and OS/2 (now > >> there's a niche player). "You decide which is right, and which is an > >> illusion." > >> > >> As requested, replies are redirected to freebsd-chat. I'm going to see > >> about getting some "official" time to work on the installer, or the > >> docs, or both. Replies directly to my address will be /dev/nulled > >> because of the list spam collectors...those of you who "know" will be > >> able to find me :-) > >> -- > >> > >> John-David Childs (JC612) Enterprise Internet Solutions > >> Systems Administration 9616 Pecos St, Thornton > >CO 80260 > >> & Network Engineering A fourth .sig line is a > >waste! > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 2002-08-02 at 18:44, Jim Mock wrote: > >> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2002 at 20:35:13 -0400, Mike wrote: > >> > > > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Mike wrote: > >> > > >> Stick with videos.. Please. -- > >> > > > > >> > > > Very funny. You mean "videoconferencing." And anyways, there is > >an > >> > > > expression: "The best of both worlds," you know? > >> > > > >> > > "videoconferencing." > >> > > It's two words. Not one. > >> > > I know all about you. Your all about SPAM. Besides, ask a stupid > >> > > question > >> > > >> > That would be "You're". If you're going to flame him for > >> > "videoconferencing" at least spell shit right otherwise you end up > >> > looking even more stupid than you did for flaming him in the first > >> > place. > >> > > >> > > get a stupid answer. you know? At least get a decent name for this > >> > > FreeBSD os you want to chop into linux and make it so any sweaty wife > >> > > beating greaseball can run a "Server" > >> > > >> > Enough already. Take this nonsense off list if you want to have a > >> > bitchfest. There's enough mail that comes through here without having > >> > to scrape through this garbage too. > >> > > >> > - jim > >> > > >> > -- > >> > jim mock jim@FreeBSD.org > >> > > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > >> > >>> end of "Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed" from John-David Childs << > > > > > >-- > >"Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw." > > -Lilo, "Lilo & Stitch" > >Adam Weinberger > >adam@vectors.cx > >http://vectors.cx > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > >> end of "Re: Oh man I'm going to get flamed" from RichardH << -- "Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw." -Lilo, "Lilo & Stitch" Adam Weinberger adam@vectors.cx http://vectors.cx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 20:35:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2C937B401 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from se-ed.net (old.se-ed.net [203.150.1.231]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA1043E65 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anurak4@se-ed.net) Received: from se-ed.net [203.150.1.231] by se-ed.net (SMTPD32-7.11) id AEF87900114; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:31:04 +0700 Message-ID: <003201c24343$920eaba0$471914ac@anurak> From: "Anurak Cherdsuriya" To: Cc: Subject: Please suggest me on *BSD Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:35:00 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2437E.3DE73CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2437E.3DE73CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I'm very new to BSD world. There are so many BSD such as FreeBSD, Net = BSD, OpenBSD. All of them are free and I don't know the different = among them. I visited all of their web sites but everything there is = very similar. Can you help giving me the information or other web = sites about all of them? How to select any of them? I am sure that = each of them must have designed for some specific reasons. Thanks in = advance. Regards, Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2437E.3DE73CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
 
I'm very new to BSD world.   = There are so=20 many BSD such as FreeBSD, Net BSD, OpenBSD.   All of them are = free and=20 I don't know the different among them.   I visited all of = their web=20 sites but everything there is very similar.   Can you help = giving me=20 the information or other web sites about all of them?   = How to=20 select any of them?   I am sure that each of them must have = designed=20 for some specific reasons.   Thanks in advance.
 
Regards,
Jeff
 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2437E.3DE73CA0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 21:40:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05DA137B401 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3664B43E75 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:40:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yid@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 6103 invoked by uid 417); 14 Aug 2002 04:40:49 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 04:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown ([216.194.7.94]) (AUTH: LOGIN yid@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:40:48 -0600 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:37:21 -0400 From: Joshua Lee To: "Anurak Cherdsuriya" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Please suggest me on *BSD Message-Id: <20020814003721.10d3a6d1.yid@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <003201c24343$920eaba0$471914ac@anurak> References: <003201c24343$920eaba0$471914ac@anurak> Organization: Plan B Software Labs X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.1claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.6) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:35:00 +0700 "Anurak Cherdsuriya" wrote: > I'm very new to BSD world. There are so many BSD such as FreeBSD, > Net BSD, OpenBSD. All of them are free and I don't know the > different among them. I visited all of their web sites but FreeBSD has the largest pre-installable package selection, and is arguably the easiest to install and use. It is made for PC compatables and Alphas only, though other ports are on the way. It is optimized for PC hardware, which, among other things, makes it the fastest. It also is probably the best as a workstation (unlike OpenBSD Mozilla works, and workstation users like lots of software availability), as well as a server. (Yahoo uses FreeBSD to do it's serving, and even Microsoft is said to use it for Hotmail.) NetBSD is famous mainly for being available for the largest amount of architectures. This is great if you have an old 68K Apple Macintosh, a VAX, a SPARC, or many other kinds of old or unusual hardware. There's even a Sony Playstation port. OpenBSD is famous for security, it works also on several computer architectures though not as many as NetBSD. Because of this emphasis on security it makes a good firewall. > everything there is very similar. Can you help giving me the > information or other web sites about all of them? How to select any > of them? I am sure that each of them must have designed for some > specific reasons. Thanks in advance. Take a look in directory.google.com and you'll find lots of *BSD websites. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 22: 7:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5077B37B400; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vms4.rit.edu (vms4.isc.rit.edu [129.21.3.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8B143E42; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjm1287@ritvax.isc.rit.edu) Received: from dogbert ([129.21.131.177]) by ritvax.isc.rit.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40294) with ESMTPA id <01KL9PTTMDLMM8FP9F@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:07:25 EDT Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:07:28 -0400 From: Brian McCann Subject: RE: Please suggest me on *BSD In-reply-to: <003201c24343$920eaba0$471914ac@anurak> To: 'Anurak Cherdsuriya' , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <000201c24350$7cb6bab0$2e00a8c0@dogbert> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RGgAvRAY4bNXsTojBcnehQ)" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_RGgAvRAY4bNXsTojBcnehQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I chose FreeBSD because of it's large ports collection. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Anurak Cherdsuriya Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:35 PM To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Please suggest me on *BSD Dear All, I'm very new to BSD world. There are so many BSD such as FreeBSD, Net BSD, OpenBSD. All of them are free and I don't know the different among them. I visited all of their web sites but everything there is very similar. Can you help giving me the information or other web sites about all of them? How to select any of them? I am sure that each of them must have designed for some specific reasons. Thanks in advance. Regards, Jeff --Boundary_(ID_RGgAvRAY4bNXsTojBcnehQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message
I chose FreeBSD because of it's large ports collection.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG] On Behalf Of Anurak Cherdsuriya
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:35 PM
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Please suggest me on *BSD

Dear All,
 
I'm very new to BSD world.   There are so many BSD such as FreeBSD, Net BSD, OpenBSD.   All of them are free and I don't know the different among them.   I visited all of their web sites but everything there is very similar.   Can you help giving me the information or other web sites about all of them?   How to select any of them?   I am sure that each of them must have designed for some specific reasons.   Thanks in advance.
 
Regards,
Jeff
 
--Boundary_(ID_RGgAvRAY4bNXsTojBcnehQ)-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Aug 13 23:44:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1508F37B405; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailjaya.creighton.edu (MailjayA.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0B643E42; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:44:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cwilmes@creighton.edu) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by mailjaya.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12368; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:44:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bluejay.creighton.edu (bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05855; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:44:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:44:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Wilmes To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please suggest me on *BSD In-Reply-To: <003201c24343$920eaba0$471914ac@anurak> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Anurak Cherdsuriya wrote: > Dear All, > > I'm very new to BSD world. There are so many BSD such as FreeBSD, Net BSD, OpenBSD. All of them are free and I don't know the different among them. I visited all of their web sites but everything there is very similar. Can you help giving me the information or other web sites about all of them? How to select any of them? I am sure that each of them must have designed for some specific reasons. Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Jeff > ZDNet published an introduction to the *BSD's back in March. It's a nice read. Here's the link: "Want a Windows Alternative? Try BSD" http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-863169.html Chris Wilmes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 15 9:50:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 5B40B37B400; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:50:25 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Nathan Hawkins Cc: Brooks Davis , Mario Goebbels , crap@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OT: Debian GNU/FreeBSD??? Message-ID: <20020815095025.A42464@FreeBSD.org> References: <000701c243e5$2cb95370$2000000a@tsndual933> <20020814160204.A17855@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3D5BD034.3030701@quic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3D5BD034.3030701@quic.net>; from utsl@quic.net on Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 12:00:52PM -0400 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , , X-Towel: Yes X-LiveJournal: flata, jmallett X-Negacore: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * De: Nathan Hawkins [ Data: 2002-08-15 ] [ Subjecte: Re: OT: Debian GNU/FreeBSD??? ] > I'd debate "silly," but you're more or less correct. > > The userland is really a bit mixed. Most of /sbin and /usr/sbin is from > FreeBSD (kind of necessary), while most of /usr/bin is from Debian. > > ---Nathan Most of my /usr/bin on my OSX box was compiled straight from FreeBSD source... Maybe I should pretend I've forked the code and do FreeBSD/OSX. -- Juli Mallett | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger jmallett@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 15 19:33:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBBD37B400 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from probilling.com (CLGRAB49-NETI02.ab.tac.net [216.123.210.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C07D43E6A for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@probilling.com) From: "steve@probilling.com" To: Subject: Low cost online credit card processing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="= Multipart Boundary 0815022033" Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:33:18 -0600 Reply-To: "steve@probilling.com" Message-Id: <20020816023320.5C07D43E6A@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multipart MIME message. --= Multipart Boundary 0815022033 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --= Multipart Boundary 0815022033 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings from proBilling








 

--= Multipart Boundary 0815022033-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 16 12: 1:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F337B400 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93C343E65 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from 1cust27.tnt2.toms-river.nj.da.uu.net ([67.194.9.27] helo=earthlink.net) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17fmL9-0000U3-00; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:00:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3D5D4C02.2020408@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:01:22 -0400 From: Lawrence Sica User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020610 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: Christopher Schulte , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <5.1.1.6.2.20020812094859.01a74e68@localhost> <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > I just finished my AFF, and am now cleared for solo and whatever else I wanna > try. It is definitely a life changing event. I was very afraid of heights > prior to skydiving, but it's almost completely gone now. > > You're right tho - once you skydive a few times, nothing else is even really on > the same scale. > > It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to the sport > of skydiving. > I have you all beat..i take the tags off of matresses (US centric joke there). --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 16 12: 1:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6763037B400 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F3B5D43E3B for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from probe-1029518446-1029524497-freebsd-chat=freebsd.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com) X-eGroups-Return: probe-1029518446-1029524497-freebsd-chat=freebsd.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.176] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Aug 2002 19:01:37 -0000 Message-ID: Date: 16 Aug 2002 19:01:37 -0000 From: Yahoo!Groups Reply-To: confirm-unbounce-1029518446-77923465-22907@yahoogroups.co.uk To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Please reactivate your Yahoo! Groups account MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, You belong to one or more email groups provided by Yahoo! Groups (uk.groups.yahoo.com). Email from these groups can be recognized by looking for a group name in the message Subject line, like [pet-owners] or [music-fans]. Recently, messages sent to you from Yahoo! Groups have been returned to us as undeliverable. To prevent any problems with your email service, we have temporarily turned your Yahoo! Groups account OFF. If you are reading this message now, the delivery problem appears to be fixed. However, we won't know that the problem is fixed until you tell us. To turn your Yahoo! Groups account ON: - Please REPLY to this message. Send that reply back to us without changing anything. OR - While connected to the Internet, click on the following Web link (or copy and paste it into your Web browser and hit the RETURN key): http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/unbounce?adj=77923465,22907&p=1029518446 Once we get a response from you, we will turn your Yahoo! Groups account back ON, and you will begin to receive messages from your groups again. After you respond, you can read any messages you might have missed while your account was off by visiting: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Thank you for using Yahoo! Groups! Yahoo! Groups Customer Care Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 16 12: 2:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CA037B400 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [206.196.95.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8143943E3B for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GJ2ZY09461; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g7GJ2Zh28545; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (coyote [10.177.176.99]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GJ2Vo28535; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D5D4C47.1E95C483@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:31 -0500 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lawrence Sica Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: i am not a wimp References: <000001c2410f$6157e3e0$0a01a8c0@COMPGEEK> <5.1.1.6.2.20020812094859.01a74e68@localhost> <3D57D2D9.70109B7B@centtech.com> <3D5D4C02.2020408@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!!?? And you posted that to a public list with your real name?!? I don't know you.. Eric Lawrence Sica wrote: > > Eric Anderson wrote: > > I just finished my AFF, and am now cleared for solo and whatever else I wanna > > try. It is definitely a life changing event. I was very afraid of heights > > prior to skydiving, but it's almost completely gone now. > > > > You're right tho - once you skydive a few times, nothing else is even really on > > the same scale. > > > > It would be interesting to why computer/technical people are drawn to the sport > > of skydiving. > > > > I have you all beat..i take the tags off of matresses (US centric joke > there). > > --Larry -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message