Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:08:51 -0800 From: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> To: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com> Cc: Chris Mason <mason@suse.com>, Josh MacDonald <jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU>, Parity Error <bootup@mail.ru>, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, reiserfs-dev@namesys.com Subject: Re: [reiserfs-dev] Re: metadata update durability ordering/soft updates Message-ID: <3C946B33.888F2281@mindspring.com> References: <E16lReK-000C3T-00@f10.mail.ru> <3C910C57.71C2D823@mindspring.com> <20020315065651.02637@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU> <3C923C91.454D7710@mindspring.com> <1562810000.1016224776@tiny> <3C928D21.404EA11D@mindspring.com> <1714680000.1016298986@tiny> <3C93BBF1.7E8801DF@mindspring.com> <3C946B57.3060403@namesys.com>
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Hans Reiser wrote: > Oh this is crap. There is nothing that Chris does in our journaling > code that wasn't already done in databases for years before this patent > was issued. (Chris, while you implement better than they did, I don't > think your architecture is at all new.) This is irrelevent to the legal system. > As for your claiming you don't want to discuss it, this is bullshit, As a Senior Software Engineer for Novell UNIX Systems Group, which integrated the former USL in June of 1994, in late 1994, during which time my primary job responsibilities included developing an attributed FS for UNIX for use in the NetWare for UNIX 4.x, I reviewed the DOW patent claims and materials prior to the filing by the authors. This event should be verifiable with Bryan Sparks, Gary Tomlinson, Jim Freeman, Darren Davis, and other people curently or formerly working for Caldera Systems, in Orem Utah, and well known to the Linux community. Actually, I'm pretty sure Jim Freeman reviewec the same documents. It is my opinion that the ReiserFS management of preserve lists probably infringes US Patent 5666532. It's no secret that I hold this opinion; I have posted consistently on it for several years, ever since the 0.2 release of ReiserFS included Write Ordering for shifted tree items. I can give you list references back at least a year, or even earlier, if I hit my offline mail archives. It's also no secret that I think it's easy to get around this by changing from DOW technology to the Ganger/Patt Soft Updates technology, which would make it a non-issue. > you are spreading FUD about our product in a potential future > market for ReiserFS in a manner that could discourage someone > from paying for the port. This is extremely irresponsible. > Don't pretend to be friendly, your actions are quite > harmful and irresponsible. Actually, the ReiserFS-Dev list was added to the Cc: line of a thread on the FreeBSD-FS list by Josh McDonald; I would just as soon not be quoted in part and out of context on a list where the entire thread was not archived. If I had noticed the addition, I would have removed it from the "Cc:" list befre replying to his posting. For FreeBSD, unless you are building a commercial product based on FreeBSD and negotiate a seperate license, ReiserFS under the GPL is a no-op, since you could not ship a binary for FreeBSD that was capable of booting off ReiserFS, due to license incompatability with the GPL. This is the same technicality that keeps the FreeBSD community from supporting, in a non-fringe way, a port of XFS or JFS to FreeBSD. FWIW: almost every UNIX vendor to whom you would market the code has a license for SVR4.2, which includes a license for use of the DOW Patents, so it's a non-issue for most potential commerical licensees of the code. If it makes you any happier, SQUID infringes at least 5 IBM patents. When I was employed by IBM, we were forced to remove it from an unreleased IBM product (they acquired our company prior to releasing the product) to avoid granting royalty free licenses to use those patents to anyone who bought a $1500 product and demanded the sources to the SQUID code from IBM under the terms of the GPL. Just because a company has a patent doesn't mean it will sue; if the patent had been transferred from Novell to SCO along with USL, the problem would be moot. As it is, I'm not sure whether or not the license is sublicensable (I assume that it is), so the shipping ReiserFS on Caldera's OpenLinux Workstation 3.1 may in fact destroy the enforcibility of the patent by Novell, in any case. The people to ask on that are Caldera; my assumptions are not strong enough for me to take the risk, so they shouldn't be strong enough for you. My opinion of software patents is probably lower than yours, but they are a fact of life in this business. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message
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