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Date:      Wed, 29 May 2002 03:26:24 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Andrew P. Lentvorski" <bsder@mail.allcaps.org>
To:        "Philip J. Koenig" <pjklist@ekahuna.com>
Cc:        stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   RE: Hardware RAID vs vinum
Message-ID:  <20020529022736.P472-100000@mail.allcaps.org>
In-Reply-To: <20020529084340715.AAA489@empty1.ekahuna.com@pc02.ekahuna.com>

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Scott_Long@adaptec.com writes:
> Greg, the companies that make RAID hardware are not filled with a
> bunch of idiots.

Please, people, no assumption of idiocy is required at all.  Just add in
some economics.  Hardware isn't free.

At the bottom end, let's choose something like the 3ware Escalade -- a
$300 card which accesses 4 IDE drives.  On at least some of the Escalade
incarnations, there were 2 *big* XILINX FPGA's (moving that much data
around requires a *lot* of pins) and an ASIC.  When you add up the 3
chips, connectors, PCI card, cables, etc. there isn't a whole lot of money
left over to make a profit (probably why 3ware actually thought about
pulling the cards as a retail item).  Consequently, you're going to try to
make do with the memory you've got available in the FPGA's and ASIC as
well as living within the available compute power.  If it means limiting
the stripe size and algorithms, so be it.

You might think that some of the SCSI RAID cards at $600 or so can dodge
this problem.  However, if they use RAM and do battery-backup, all stripes
in flight have to be backed up (remember, everybody likes the fact that
SCSI can handle multiple transactions).  The bigger the stripe size, the
more RAM required to hold the same number of transactions.  Otherwise, the
card will start to block on transactions if it wants to back them all up.
I can imagine that attempting to both battery back and move multi megabyte
stripe sizes takes some serious compute power and memory.  Probably beyond
what someone is going to be able to put onto a $600-$800 card and make a
profit.

Now, I would be more interested in what someone like NetApp who have fewer
economic constraints and some custom VLSI actually do from the stripe size
perspective.  However, I don't see anything in their product literature.

-a



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