Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 08:33:47 -0500 From: Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZFS... Message-ID: <f868b452-40e9-f2c8-cdee-dde5e53a214c@denninger.net> In-Reply-To: <17B373DA-4AFC-4D25-B776-0D0DED98B320@sorbs.net> References: <30506b3d-64fb-b327-94ae-d9da522f3a48@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2gf3AZr1-QOX_6yYQoqE-H%2B8MjOWc=eK1tcwt5M3dCzdw@mail.gmail.com> <56833732-2945-4BD3-95A6-7AF55AB87674@sorbs.net> <3d0f6436-f3d7-6fee-ed81-a24d44223f2f@netfence.it> <17B373DA-4AFC-4D25-B776-0D0DED98B320@sorbs.net>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050404080707080201050301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/30/2019 03:09, Michelle Sullivan wrote: > Consider.. > > If one triggers such a fault on a production server, how can one justif= y transferring from backup multiple terabytes (or even petabytes now) of = data to repair an unmountable/faulted array.... because all backup soluti= ons I know currently would take days if not weeks to restore the sort of = store ZFS is touted with supporting. =20 Had it happen on a production server a few years back with ZFS.=C2=A0 The= *hardware* went insane (disk adapter) and scribbled on *all* of the vdevs= =2E The machine crashed and would not come back up -- at all.=C2=A0 I insist = on (and had) emergency boot media physically in the box (a USB key) in any production machine and it was quite-quickly obvious that all of the vdevs were corrupted beyond repair.=C2=A0 There was no rational option ot= her than to restore. It was definitely not a pleasant experience, but this is why when you get into systems and data store sizes where it's a five-alarm pain in the neck you must figure out some sort of strategy that covers you 99% of the time without a large amount of downtime involved, and in the 1% case accept said downtime.=C2=A0 In this particular circumstance the cust= omer didn't want to spend on a doubled-and-transaction-level protected on-site (in the same DC) redundancy setup originally so restore, as opposed to fail-over/promote and then restore and build a new "redundant" box where the old "primary" resided was the most-viable option.=C2=A0 Time to recover essential functions was ~8 hours (and over = 24 hours for everything to be restored.) Incidentally that's not the first time I've had a disk adapter failure on a production machine in my career as a systems dude; it was, in fact, the *third* such failure.=C2=A0 Then again I've been doing this stuff sin= ce the 1980s and learned long ago that if it can break it eventually will, and that Murphy is a real b******. The answer to your question Michelle is that when restore times get into "seriously disruptive" amounts of time (e.g. hours, days or worse depending on the application involved and how critical it is) you spend the time and money to have redundancy in multiple places and via paths that do not destroy the redundant copies when things go wrong, and you spend the engineering time to figure out what those potential faults are and how to design such that a fault which can destroy the data set does not propagate to the redundant copies before it is detected. --=20 Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net> /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------ms050404080707080201050301 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC 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