From owner-freebsd-questions Mon Oct 2 15:45:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6833137B66C for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com ([24.20.70.64]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001002224418.REYU4031.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <39D91093.CD603D00@home.com> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:47:47 -0700 From: xavian anderson macpherson Organization: http://www.professional3d.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: [Fwd: APOLOGIES GIVEN TO ALL] X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9997E7534516E22BEB496D5F" Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------9997E7534516E22BEB496D5F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wyrdwulf@catskill.net wrote: > Xavian: > > Freebsd is an operating system. You may be required to install it. It's > rather different from linux (I use Debian myself) and requires a learning curve. I > don't think the vinum program for fbsd easily adapts to a linux system. If you > are proposing to "adapt" freebsd's "vinum" to SuSe I'm not sure it can be done. > Netscape is notorious for bugs, so I'd suspect netscape before linux. I'd also > check the SuSe Linux list to see if your problems are unique. > YAST is wonderful but I like Debian. it may be netscape, but i have been having problems that have nothing to do with netscape. you didn't read my email very well. i don't want vinum for linux. nor was i `proposing to adapt it to suse'. frankly, to all concerned; i would rather not use any linux program. but the reality is that there are some holes in freebsd. if there weren't any (holes), no one would ever port programs from linux (or anything else for that matteres) to freebsd. the reality is that freebsd does not and may never have the commercial support prevalent in linux. the very nature of freebsd tends to ensure this. linux is rapidly becoming the microsft of the unix-wannabe community. the propensity of proprietary distributions for profit is what's driving this. even linux suffers compared to windows, even more so than apple. the only chance that freebsd will ever have is to make redhat linux rpms directly portable to freebsd without any intervention by the end user. as i pointed out to someone else, the redhat rpm manager is capable of converting tarballs into rpm packages. what we need is a devoted rpm manager for freebsd, that will handle ALL of the conversion requirements from linux to freebsd. you are already a step ahead of linux. i'd just like to see us take even larger steps forward. and i can just see the rage that some of you will have at the suggestion that freebsd should adopt linux as one of it's own. frankly i don't care too much for segregation, not in any form. and all segregation begins in the mind. it is a refusal to think beyond your own exclusive box. to me, the foundation of freedom (free as in bsd) has to be inclusivity. it is the humility to look beyond oneself to consider the expansiveness of ones greater community. yes i have the capacity to rant, just like anyone else. i try however to make sure that whatever i am ranting about, conforms to reality. if it doesn't, i definately welcome the fact being brought to my attention. i don't mind being told that i am wrong, in fact i look forward to it. i would be a fool to think anyother way. i cherish truthfulness too much, to place my own ego above it. i often find myself expressing views that are nothing less than bigoted. when i do, i immediately question my right to have such a view. and the very fact that i recognize that is wrong, obligates me to forsaking it. when i find myself apartied to values or concepts that abrogate the truth, not as i see it but as defined by a rigorous examination of the facts, no matter how inconvient to myself, I CHANGE! this is not hog wash. it is what i live by. and i examine myself and everything (especially what i buy) around me by that level of scrutiny. > > > BTW, all caps means you are shouting. Ver-r-ry unpleasant. > > Eric Wolven > > On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:14:14 xavian anderson macpherson wrote: > > I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS. I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I > > SAID IT, but i can send anyone copies of an email i got from someone > > who was quite sarcastic when there was no need to be! he has since > > changed his tone. so i am doing the same. AGAIN, I AM SORRY! i am > > just a little bit concerned because i am getting conflicting answers in > > the emails i have recieved privately. some of you have been very > > helpful and i am VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED with the general tone of > > thie remarks i have seen. > > does this mean that i was shouting when i said i was`VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED'? or maybe i was shouting when i said `AGAIN, I AM SORRY', `I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS. I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I SAID IT'? there is a difference between shouting and simply making a statement of stressed emphasis. SO LET ME SHOUT THIS VERY CLEARLY. IT IS THE INABILITY OR REFUSAL TO LOOK BEYOND THE WORDS AND SEE THE LANGUAGE. IT IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD THAT DEFINES THE LANGUAGE. don't be so short sighted. people all too often only see what they want to, and ignore the message that is presented to them. it it easier that way to absolve oneself of any complicity they may (most always) share in the situation that exists. but god help us, if we have to declare responsibility. --------------9997E7534516E22BEB496D5F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wyrdwulf@catskill.net wrote:
Xavian:

Freebsd is an operating system.  You may be required to install it.  It's
rather different from linux (I use Debian myself) and requires a learning curve.  I
don't think the vinum program for fbsd easily adapts to a linux system.  If you
are proposing to "adapt" freebsd's "vinum" to SuSe I'm not sure it can be done.
Netscape is notorious for bugs, so I'd suspect netscape before linux.  I'd also
check the SuSe Linux list to see if your problems are unique.
YAST is wonderful but I like Debian.

it may be netscape, but i have been having problems that have nothing to do with netscape.

you didn't read my email very well.  i don't want vinum for linux.  nor was i `proposing to adapt it to suse'.  frankly, to all concerned; i would rather not use any linux program.  but the reality is that there are some holes in freebsd.  if there weren't any (holes), no one would ever port programs from linux (or anything else for that matteres) to freebsd.  the reality is that freebsd does not and may never have the commercial support prevalent in linux.  the very nature of freebsd tends to ensure this.  linux is rapidly becoming the microsft of the unix-wannabe community.  the propensity of proprietary distributions for profit is what's driving this.  even linux suffers compared to windows, even more so than apple.  the only chance that freebsd will ever have is to make redhat linux rpms directly portable to freebsd without any intervention by the end user.

as i pointed out to someone else, the redhat rpm manager is capable of converting tarballs into rpm packages.  what we need is a devoted rpm manager for freebsd, that will handle ALL of the conversion requirements from linux to freebsd.  you are already a step ahead of linux.  i'd just like to see us take even larger steps forward.  and i can just see the rage that some of you will have at the suggestion that freebsd should adopt linux as one of it's own.  frankly i don't care too much for segregation, not in any form.  and all segregation begins in the mind.  it is a refusal to think beyond your own exclusive box.  to me, the foundation of freedom (free as in bsd) has to be inclusivity.  it is the humility to look beyond oneself to consider the expansiveness of ones greater community.  yes i have the capacity to rant, just like anyone else.  i try however to make sure that whatever i am ranting about, conforms to reality.  if it doesn't, i definately welcome the fact being brought to my attention.  i don't mind being told that i am wrong, in fact i look forward to it.  i would be a fool to think anyother way.  i cherish truthfulness too much, to place my own ego above it.  i often find myself expressing views that are nothing less than bigoted.  when i do, i immediately question my right to have such a view.  and the very fact that i recognize that is wrong, obligates me to forsaking it.  when i find myself apartied to values or concepts that abrogate the truth, not as i see it but as defined by a rigorous examination of the facts, no matter how inconvient to myself, I CHANGE!  this is not hog wash.  it is what i live by.  and i examine myself and everything (especially what i buy) around me by that level of scrutiny.

 
 
BTW, all caps means you are shouting.  Ver-r-ry unpleasant.

Eric Wolven

On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:14:14 xavian anderson macpherson wrote:
> I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.  I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I
> SAID IT,  but i can send anyone copies of an email i got from someone
> who was quite sarcastic when there was no need to be!  he has since
> changed his tone.  so i am doing the same.  AGAIN, I AM SORRY!  i am
> just a little bit concerned because i am getting conflicting answers in
> the emails i have recieved privately.  some of you have been very
> helpful and i am VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED with the general tone of
> thie remarks i have seen.
>

does this mean that i was shouting when i said i was`VERY THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED'?  or maybe i was shouting when i said `AGAIN, I AM SORRY', `I AM SORRY FOR MY REMARKS.  I DIDN'T NEED TO SAY WHAT I SAID THE WAY I SAID IT'?  there is a difference between shouting and simply making a statement of stressed emphasis.  SO LET ME SHOUT THIS VERY CLEARLY.  IT IS THE INABILITY OR REFUSAL TO LOOK BEYOND THE WORDS AND SEE THE LANGUAGE.  IT IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD THAT DEFINES THE LANGUAGE.  don't be so short sighted.  people all too often only see what they want to, and ignore the message that is presented to them.  it it easier that way to absolve oneself of any complicity they may (most always) share in the situation that exists.  but god help us, if we have to declare responsibility.
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