From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 2 23:12:25 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 790439E1; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 23:12:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26B401DD4; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 23:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.73] (254C510A.nat.pool.telekom.hu [37.76.81.10]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s02NCFvQ019057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <52C5F249.8080802@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:12:09 +0100 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konstantin Belousov , Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: svn commit: r255219 - in head: contrib/tcpdump lib/libc lib/libc/capability lib/libc/include lib/libc/sys lib/libprocstat sbin/dhclient sbin/hastd sys/amd64/linux32 sys/bsm sys/cddl/compat/opensola... References: <201309050009.r8509vsE061271@svn.freebsd.org> <67DFFD7B-01DE-4862-BED3-DD42EB92A8F4@freebsd.org> <20140102093322.GA1655@garage.freebsd.pl> <52C53F69.3040507@mu.org> <20140102104904.GB1655@garage.freebsd.pl> <20140102131308.GI59496@kib.kiev.ua> <20140102191420.GB99167@funkthat.com> <52C5BCCB.6070702@mu.org> <20140102193413.GN59496@kib.kiev.ua> In-Reply-To: <20140102193413.GN59496@kib.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek , John-Mark Gurney , Stanislav Sedov , svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 23:12:25 -0000 On 1/2/14, 8:34 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 11:23:55AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> >> Of course the problem is that when we move to >> (ASN.1/libnv/ctf/YAML/JSON/XML/etc) we will break ABI compatibility too, >> or introduce tons of compatibility code that will rot... >> >> I agree, however there is a very easy way to fix it for the time being. >> Let's not be binary about it "well it's going to have to break, so let's >> break it!" when such an easy way to not break it exists. It should be >> "let's see if there's a non-intrusive way of not breaking it" and the >> answer to that seems to be "yes". > If parts of ABI is broken, then why spend efforts trying to keep other > parts stable ? You already have random set of binaries broken, sometimes > in subtle way. Then, making other interfaces stable is just a waste. > > ABI stability is a yes/no proposition, you cannot have it partly done. > Personally, I do not want to spend a time on hobbyist system. > > BTW, to point out obvious thing, Linux has almost perfect ABI stability > and forward compatibility. It is pity to see that our people do not > understand the importance and benefits of it. I always assume that there is a subset of programs that will not run in jails of different major releases, and that must be replaced by statically linked versions of the new ones.. these include ifconfig, netstat, ps, top and other similar programs.