From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Sep 1 17:36:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA01872 for doc-outgoing; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ferrari.sfu.ca (root@ferrari.sfu.ca [142.58.110.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01865 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraser (brianc@fraser-ep7.sfu.ca [192.168.0.101]) by ferrari.sfu.ca with SMTP (8.7.5/SFU-2.6H) id RAA09904 (from brianc@sfu.ca); Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Chambers Received: by fraser (950413.SGI.8.6.12/SFU-2.6C) id RAA07552 (from brianc@sfu.ca); Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:36:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199609020036.RAA07552@fraser> Subject: Problem with ThinkPads and FreeBSD To: doc@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: brianc@sfu.ca X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With a ThinkPad 750C, when installing FreeBSD 2.1.5, the boot disk hangs. I believe Linux installations have the same problm but they have some fixes. The following prints after a screen of probing, using -v : BIOS Geometries: 0:03910e31 0..913=914 cylinders, 0..14=15 heads, 1..49=49 sectors 0 accounted for ...then hangs ! Is there any documentation on this ? If not, could this problem be researched. Thanks. -- Brian From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Sep 1 22:30:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA12806 for doc-outgoing; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts8-line11.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.75]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA12716 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00319; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:29:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: Mark Speciale cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Java interpreter In-Reply-To: <32281BEE.4853@smarka.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 31 Aug 1996, Mark Speciale wrote: > I need a Java interpreter for a unix/FreeBSD system. I'm really a > beginner at java programming and I have a few Java classes I would like > to run on my website. My system administrator doesn't have time to help > me right now and told me to "go for it" and try and find the interpreter > I need. The only one I found on your server that seemed to be what I was > looking for is Kaffe, but I don't know what to do with it now that I > have it unpacked in my shell. Well, it depends on what you pulled. If you pulled the port, then go into the directory and type 'make install'. If it was the package, then type "pkg_add kaffee-x.tgz". You will probably need superuser privileges to install these properly. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Sep 2 19:16:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA24420 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA24413; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04169; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:16:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fallout.campusview.indiana.edu: jfieber owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:16:44 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fallout.campusview.indiana.edu Reply-To: John Fieber To: doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Warning: SGML doc changes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For some time, I've been blabbering about changes coming to the SGML documentation tools. I've got things together to the point where I'm about ready to bring them in so here is a brief summary. instant: A new tool for manipulating SGML document instances. This is the core of the new doc conversion and useful for a variety of tasks dealing with SGML documents. The tool originally came from OSF but is only supported in an ad-hoc fashion. It carries a BSD compatible license. This version has been customized and enhanced by myself. Uncompressed source is about 280k. sgmlsasp and rast: Instant makes the former useless and rast was never (as far as I know used), therefore these will be *removed*. Uncompressed source is about 32K ISO 8879:1986 entity sets: These provide standard names for symbols not commonly found on keyboards. These are used by many DTDs, including Docbook and now linuxdoc. This adds about 90K Linuxdoc: This DTD had a numerous ugly hacks put in place to make up for shortcomings in the conversion tool (sgmlsasp). A switch to instant allowed me to clean a bunch of the cruft out. I have also switched from the homebrew entity sets to the ISO entity sets. This may cause some small, but trivial to fix problems with old documents. The element structure is unchanged. sgmlfmt: This is still the tool for processing the FAQ and handbook. The interface is completely unchanged, but thanks to instant, it is a bit simpler and some longstanding bugs are gone. Ultimately this may become simple enough that a shell script will do. Docbook: Ultimately the FAQ, handbook and future documentation will use this DTD which is well supported and widely used in the software industry. However, the conversion to [nt]roff and HTML is not yet ready for prime-time. The question: should it be brought in now so people can start tinkering with it, or should it be kept out until a later date? Questions and comments welcome. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Sep 2 20:22:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA28184 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28176; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb7/3.4Wbeta5-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id MAA24258; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:22:37 +0900 Received: from adjanta.astec.co.jp (adjanta [172.20.12.5]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.4Wbeta5-astecNoMX2.3) with SMTP id MAA05746; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:22:36 +0900 Received: by adjanta.astec.co.jp (4.1/astec-1.2) id AA06367; Tue, 3 Sep 96 12:22:35 JST Message-Id: <9609030322.AA06367@adjanta.astec.co.jp> To: jfieber@indiana.edu Cc: doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:16:44 -0500 (EST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 12:22:34 +0900 From: Hanai Hiroyuki Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm Hiroyuki Hanai and I'm new in these mailing lists. I'm working on the translation of FreeBSD documents into Japnese. > instant: A new tool for manipulating SGML document instances. > This is the core of the new doc conversion and useful for > a variety of tasks dealing with SGML documents. The tool > originally came from OSF but is only supported in an > ad-hoc fashion. It carries a BSD compatible license. > This version has been customized and enhanced by myself. > Uncompressed source is about 280k. > > sgmlsasp and rast: Instant makes the former useless and rast was > never (as far as I know used), therefore these will be > *removed*. Uncompressed source is about 32K I've not been heard about `instant' and I'm wondering whether it can handle Japanese character or not. So, I want to use your new tools on our Japanese documents. > Docbook: Ultimately the FAQ, handbook and future documentation > will use this DTD which is well supported and widely used > in the software industry. However, the conversion to > [nt]roff and HTML is not yet ready for prime-time. The > question: should it be brought in now so people can start > tinkering with it, or should it be kept out until a later > date? Yah, I'm with you. I don't want to use linuxdoc and I think it's fine to use one of widely used DTDs. But, Docbook seems a little bit complicated for me. It is almost caos ;-) Is there any possiblity to define our DTD as a subset of Docbook? Anyway, I wanna try to use your new tools. Is it available for me? -----H.Hanai From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Sep 2 20:37:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA28765 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (root@jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28760 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prizm.pernet.net (dialin173.pernet.net [205.229.0.173]) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA01175 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:33:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609030333.WAA01175@jennifer.pernet.net> From: "Kevin" To: Subject: Please help Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:36:44 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hi I was wondering if there was a copy of the free bsd handbook that I could download to read? Like a .txt file From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Sep 2 20:58:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA29657 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA29651 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA06898; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:58:04 -0700 (PDT) To: "Kevin" cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Sep 1996 22:36:44 CDT." <199609030333.WAA01175@jennifer.pernet.net> Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 20:58:03 -0700 Message-ID: <6896.841723083@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/docs > hi I was wondering if there was a copy of the free bsd handbook that I > could download to read? Like a .txt file > From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Sep 2 22:08:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA03294 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts14-line3.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.169]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03265 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00476 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: submitting docs for Handbook inclusion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I've finished converting over Jeremy Child's documentation to SGML. I'd like to know what the next step is in getting it committed to the Handbook. I'd like someone to look it over and fix up any inconsistentcies of formatting, as there will be many as this is my first shot at this particular format, and the only referenece I've had is other Handbook pages. Thanks! Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 07:40:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA02588 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA02581; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05635; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:40:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:40:24 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Hanai Hiroyuki cc: doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: <9609030322.AA06367@adjanta.astec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Hanai Hiroyuki wrote: > I've not been heard about `instant' and I'm wondering whether it can > handle Japanese character or not. > So, I want to use your new tools on our Japanese documents. It appears to handle the HTML transform, but look at http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber/japanized-files/obj/handbook.html to verify. The ascii and postscript transform fall over when they hit groff. What sort of tweaks does groff need to work? Are they the sort of tweaks that could be added to the FreeBSD's groff? I know very little about multibyte character processing but I suspect instant's handling is more accident than intentional. Instant doesn't really do much with the actual content. However it does a little more than sgmlsasp did so there is some potential for mangling. I'm about to go down to the library and check out "Understanding Japanese Information Processing" (Publ. O'Reailly) to educate myself on this matter. > But, Docbook seems a little bit complicated for me. It is almost caos ;-) > Is there any possiblity to define our DTD as a subset of Docbook? In practice, actual Docbook markup isn't more complex, but there certainly are a lot of tags to choose from. What I'll do when a changeover takes place is make a short style-guide/example to illustrate the more common elements and markup tasks. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 09:32:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09698 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09688 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22716 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:32:18 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id SAA15679 for doc@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:31:54 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Beta.1/keltia-uucp-2.9) id GAA15313; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:55:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199609030455.GAA15313@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:55:54 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Sep 2, 1996 21:16:44 -0500 References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2415 Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to John Fieber: > Docbook: Ultimately the FAQ, handbook and future documentation > will use this DTD which is well supported and widely used > in the software industry. However, the conversion to > [nt]roff and HTML is not yet ready for prime-time. The > question: should it be brought in now so people can start > tinkering with it, or should it be kept out until a later > date? This is CURRENT. Bring DocBook in so we can play with it... I think it is a bit complicated but it is more complete by far than Linuxdoc. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #20: Fri Aug 30 23:00:02 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 11:00:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA15135 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15130; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA13176; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:00:41 GMT Message-Id: <199609031800.SAA13176@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov> Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA013113779; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:02:59 -0600 Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 12:02:59 -0600 From: Sean Kelly To: jfieber@indiana.edu Cc: doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (message from John Fieber on Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:16:44 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "John" == John Fieber writes: John> The question: should it be brought in now so people can start John> tinkering with it, or should it be kept out until a later date? I'd like to see it now. The sooner we can start playing with it, the better. It'd be a good goal that from now on we produce no more documents in the linuxdoc DTD. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 17:07:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07189 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leia.cs.berkeley.edu (leia.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.230]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07168; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by leia.cs.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA09404; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609040006.RAA09404@leia.cs.berkeley.edu> To: jfieber@indiana.edu CC: hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from John Fieber on Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:40:24 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * It appears to handle the HTML transform, but look at : * to verify. It looks ok but I only took a glance. The only thing I could find was that the mailto: urls (look at the Core Team roster etc.) seem mangled but that may be because of the brokenness of the particular set of files you grabbed (this thing is still being updated daily). * The ascii and postscript transform fall over when * they hit groff. What sort of tweaks does groff need to work? * Are they the sort of tweaks that could be added to the FreeBSD's * groff? The tweaks that are in /usr/ports/japanese/groff. ;) Also, I heard sgmlfmt needs to call groff with "-T nippon" instead of "-T ascii". (The modified groff works exactly like the original unless it's called with "-T nippon".) * I know very little about multibyte character processing but I * suspect instant's handling is more accident than intentional. * Instant doesn't really do much with the actual content. However * it does a little more than sgmlsasp did so there is some * potential for mangling. I'm about to go down to the library and * check out "Understanding Japanese Information Processing" (Publ. * O'Reailly) to educate myself on this matter. That might be overkill. There are three major character encodings, one stateful (JIS) and two stateless (EUC-Japanese and shift-JIS). The ones we are using, EUC-J, just set the eighth bit on both bytes of two-byte characters. Unless you want to write something that groks all three, it's probably worth the effort to read a whole book for this. ;) Other than inserting line breaks between Japanese characters if necessary (the Japanese language doesn't use spaces that often), and making sure that you don't cut the line between the two bytes that compose a single character, there isn't really that much to worry about if you're talking EUC. (Of course, there is an issue of certain charecters not pemitted to appear at the beginning of lines, like Japanese equivalents of "," and ".", but many programs (like netscape3) don't handle this anyway so people are used to seeing them screwed up....) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 18:30:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13266 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA13256; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA15718; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:30:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:30:18 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Satoshi Asami cc: hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: <199609040006.RAA09404@leia.cs.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [is core interested in this? If not, responders cut core from the cc list] On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > It looks ok but I only took a glance. The only thing I could find was > that the mailto: urls (look at the Core Team roster etc.) seem mangled Those are mangled for an unrelated reason; just ignore that. > The tweaks that are in /usr/ports/japanese/groff. ;) > > Also, I heard sgmlfmt needs to call groff with "-T nippon" instead of > "-T ascii". (The modified groff works exactly like the original > unless it's called with "-T nippon".) Okay, that makes three possible work orders for groff: 1. Upgrade to 1.10 2. Make it grok Japanese 3. Upgrade the mm macros The last must be done regardless; the version currently in current has some catastrophic bugs, never mind beind 9 versions behind what is currently available. As for the handbook itself, you suggest putting the new stuff in jp_JP.EUC. It would follow that the english should then go in en_??.ISO_8859-1. The "foreign" directories have translated versions of various files. When generating a handbook for a particular language, the english versions will serve as a fallback of no native translation is identified for a particular part. I'm curious about the make world scenario for this. Do we generate all possible language versions always, or just one based on the value of LANG at build time? -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 18:43:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA14279 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14274; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA00307; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 18:43:10 -0700 (PDT) To: John Fieber cc: Satoshi Asami , hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org, core@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Sep 1996 20:30:18 CDT." Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 18:43:10 -0700 Message-ID: <305.841801390@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Okay, that makes three possible work orders for groff: > > 1. Upgrade to 1.10 > 2. Make it grok Japanese > 3. Upgrade the mm macros > > The last must be done regardless; the version currently in > current has some catastrophic bugs, never mind beind 9 versions > behind what is currently available. Can we bite this off as a separate task? I'm worried that we might be gathering too many large scale TODOs and not enough short-term goals. > As for the handbook itself, you suggest putting the new stuff in > jp_JP.EUC. It would follow that the english should then go in > en_??.ISO_8859-1. The "foreign" directories have translated > versions of various files. When generating a handbook for a > particular language, the english versions will serve as a > fallback of no native translation is identified for a particular > part. Sounds good to me! > I'm curious about the make world scenario for this. Do we > generate all possible language versions always, or just one > based on the value of LANG at build time? I think just based on LANG. That'd let me make multiple passes over the docs with different values for LANG when generating foreign language boot floppies. Jordan From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 19:40:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA16590 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 19:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16582; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 19:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA15856; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:40:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Satoshi Asami , hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: <305.841801390@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [WRT mm upgrade] > > The last must be done regardless; the version currently in > > current has some catastrophic bugs, never mind beind 9 versions > > behind what is currently available. > > Can we bite this off as a separate task? I'm worried that we might be > gathering too many large scale TODOs and not enough short-term goals. Certainly. > > As for the handbook itself, you suggest putting the new stuff in > > jp_JP.EUC. It would follow that the english should then go in > > en_??.ISO_8859-1. The "foreign" directories have translated > > Sounds good to me! Okay, who claims english? AU, CA, GB, or US? :-> Also, this scheme assumes translations are chopped up at the file level. This may be the most managable, but its also possible to embed multiple translations in a single file. This will come out the same in both versions The obvious advantage to this method is common text, most likely examples, need not be duplicated. It may potentially help keep variant languages intact. The obvious problem is combining different encodings. I gather if we restrict the non-japanese text to USASCII we should not run into conflicts with EUC-J. Thats fine for english and japanese, but would be a hassle for other european languages who would be better with the ISO 8859-x or KOI8 encodings. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 20:01:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA17190 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca14-20.ix.netcom.com [204.32.168.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA17185 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id UAA10130; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609040300.UAA10130@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jfieber@indiana.edu CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from John Fieber on Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:40:36 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * The obvious problem is combining different encodings. I gather * if we restrict the non-japanese text to USASCII we should not run * into conflicts with EUC-J. Thats fine for english and japanese, * but would be a hassle for other european languages who would be * better with the ISO 8859-x or KOI8 encodings. I'm afraid this could be quite confusing, 'cause Chinese and Korean can also be encoded in EUC and there is nothing in there to distinguish. The only way to mix multiple multi-byte languages is to use a stateful encoding (JIS for Japanese), but then we'll have a much larger task of fixing tools to handle these. And I'm sure our European (save Brits :) friends will have something to say about restricting their code space to US-ASCII. :> Satoshi P.S. Of course there's also Unicode, but nobody uses that in the CJK world.... From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 20:37:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18539 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18534; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.6.12+2.5Wb7/3.4Wbeta5-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id MAA24443; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:36:50 +0900 Received: from adjanta.astec.co.jp (adjanta [172.20.12.5]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.4Wbeta5-astecNoMX2.3) with SMTP id MAA12290; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:36:50 +0900 Received: by adjanta.astec.co.jp (4.1/astec-1.2) id AA07720; Wed, 4 Sep 96 12:36:49 JST Message-Id: <9609040336.AA07720@adjanta.astec.co.jp> To: asami@freebsd.org Cc: jfieber@indiana.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:00:53 -0700 (PDT)" References: <199609040300.UAA10130@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:36:48 +0900 From: Hanai Hiroyuki Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've also checked John's Web page for Japanese verion of Handbook and I think there is no problems on the new tools. > I'm afraid this could be quite confusing, 'cause Chinese and Korean > can also be encoded in EUC and there is nothing in there to > distinguish. The only way to mix multiple multi-byte languages is to Yes, I'm afraid that too. > use a stateful encoding (JIS for Japanese), but then we'll have a much > larger task of fixing tools to handle these. Yes, it's too hard. Also, another point is the SGML declaration. When we write some documents(SGML instances) in EUC, sections of BASESET and DESCSET for EUC part in the SGML declaration should be like... BASESET "ISO Registration Number 87//CHARSET JIS X 0208 Japanese Character Set//ESC 2/6 4/0 ESC 2/4 2/9 4/2" DESCSET 128 127 128 255 1 UNUSED In practice, SGML parsers such as sgmls, nsgmls.. can handle Japanese characters correctly without above part in the SGML declaration if 8-bits code is not forbidden. So, this is not an actual problem but a political problem ;-> -----H.Hanai hanai@jp.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Sep 3 20:41:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA18623 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18614; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 20:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA16022; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:41:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Satoshi Asami cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hanai@astec.co.jp, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Warning: SGML doc changes In-Reply-To: <199609040300.UAA10130@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > P.S. Of course there's also Unicode, but nobody uses that in the CJK > world.... A had wondered about this, but "Understanding Japanese Information Processing" nicely explained why it hasn't gone over too well (namely problems/biases with han unification). Even with the translations segregated into files, we must be careful that the fallback translation (english) only uses USASCII. This isn't a problem because anything outside of that can be accessed with entity references. (eg ö for ö). -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================ From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 01:28:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA01533 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA01528 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id BAA11459; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609040828.BAA11459@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <22881.840135964@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: New section: development From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, what happened to this? I thought Jordan was going to send me diffs (or suggestions for improvement) ? :) Satoshi the impatient From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 02:52:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA04146 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04100; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01612; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:51:59 -0700 (PDT) To: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) cc: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New section: development In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 1996 01:28:25 PDT." <199609040828.BAA11459@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 02:51:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1609.841830719@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Huh? What are we talking about here? :-) > So, what happened to this? I thought Jordan was going to send me > diffs (or suggestions for improvement) ? :) > > Satoshi the impatient From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 02:55:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA04368 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA04363 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id CAA11704; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609040955.CAA11704@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <1609.841830719@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: New section: development From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Huh? What are we talking about here? :-) Read the subject line! (I know, all those discussions with the subjects "Food for thought" and "Linux vs. FreeBSD" which have nothing to do with the contents, I can't really blame you for picking up the habit of ignoring the headers.... :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 03:03:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA04677 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 03:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA04671; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 03:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA01692; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 03:03:20 -0700 (PDT) To: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) cc: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New section: development In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 1996 02:55:26 PDT." <199609040955.CAA11704@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 03:03:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1690.841831400@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I did read the subject line, but "New section: development" tells me nothing. I don't remember anything about any such new section, and if it was ever stuck on my TODO list then it's long since dropped off and been utterly forgotten. Any attempts to put it back will also be strongly resisted - I have enough to do right now! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 07:27:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA13729 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA13723 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.5/8.6.9) id HAA16704; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609041427.HAA16704@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <1690.841831400@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: New section: development From: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I did read the subject line, but "New section: development" tells me * nothing. I don't remember anything about any such new section, and if * it was ever stuck on my TODO list then it's long since dropped off and * been utterly forgotten. Any attempts to put it back will also be * strongly resisted - I have enough to do right now! :-) It's just that I sent a diff to add a new section to the doc list, and you complained that it's too flowery etc. If you're too busy for review, I don't mind putting it straight in! :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 07:40:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14491 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14486; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA03465; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:40:05 -0700 (PDT) To: asami@freebsd.org (Satoshi Asami) cc: fdocs@jraynard.demon.co.uk, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New section: development In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:27:11 PDT." <199609041427.HAA16704@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:40:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3462.841848005@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh, right, that one. Erm. Feh. Where is it again? :-) > * I did read the subject line, but "New section: development" tells me > * nothing. I don't remember anything about any such new section, and if > * it was ever stuck on my TODO list then it's long since dropped off and > * been utterly forgotten. Any attempts to put it back will also be > * strongly resisted - I have enough to do right now! :-) > > It's just that I sent a diff to add a new section to the doc list, and > you complained that it's too flowery etc. If you're too busy for > review, I don't mind putting it straight in! :) > > Satoshi From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 14:33:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03891 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.transnet.de (root@ns.transnet.de [194.112.76.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03886 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from line3.slipneu.tu-freiberg.de (line3.slipneu.tu-freiberg.de [139.20.221.103]) by ns.transnet.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA18196; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:33:47 +0200 Message-ID: <322E7386.75DE@transnet.de> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 23:30:30 -0700 From: Alf Krause X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01DT [de] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG CC: krausea@student.tu-freiberg.de Subject: Documentation X-URL: http://www.FreeBSD.org/handbook/handbook.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need a documentation for FreeBSD -- Alf -:) krausea@student.tu-freiberg.de -- -= End =- From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 19:59:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA16286 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts12-line5.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.137]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16271 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA00353; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:59:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: Alf Krause cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, krausea@student.tu-freiberg.de Subject: Re: Documentation In-Reply-To: <322E7386.75DE@transnet.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Alf Krause wrote: > I need a documentation for FreeBSD Like what? A good portion of the documentation is on http://www.freebsd.org. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Sep 4 23:20:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA24806 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts11-line12.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA24801 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA00633 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: SMC Ethernet Power(2) cards (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Got this in -questions in case you're behind Jordan. Here is the patch to add that line in (I stuck it in the DEC 21xxx PCI card area): --- /usr/src/share/doc/handbook/install.sgml Wed Aug 28 03:30:45 1996 +++ install.sgml Wed Sep 4 23:16:36 1996 @@ -269,6 +269,7 @@ Mylex LNP101 SMC EtherPower 10/100 (Model 9332) SMC EtherPower (Model 8432) + SMC EtherPower(2) Zynx ZX342 DEC FDDI (DEFPA/DEFEA) NICs Watch the paths there, I may have done something evil with the explicit ref to install.sgml. I don't have a model number for this one. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:03:20 -0500 From: Hal Snyder To: 'Robert Du Gaue' Cc: "questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: SMC Ethernet Power(2) cards Robert Du Gaue wrote: > Anyone use these cards? 2 PCI ethernet adapters on one card. We use the > single card models here and they work flawlessly. Need to recover a couple > PCI slots and get some dual ethernet controllers going. Are these cards > pretty much the same as the singles except for dual ports? Any problems > with FreeBSD? I take it they'll show up as de0 and de1 like our two PCI > cards do now? Yep. I asked this question on the list about a week earlier and got a positive response. Am now running a PCI EtherPower(2), devices de0 and de1, FreeBSD 2.1.5R, works great. Jordan: how about adding this card explicitly to the list of supported NIC's? From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 07:00:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18827 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18807 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com (root@bonkers.neosoft.com [206.109.2.48]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04513; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:00:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA09077; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 06:26:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 06:26:38 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199609051126.GAA09077@bonkers.taronga.com> To: kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vi tutorial Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.doc In-Reply-To: <199608170220.TAA09516@athena.tera.com> Organization: none Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Enclosed is the vi_tutorial that I've been distributing. Mind if I make a couple of suggestions? They're pretty deep changes, but I think are important to really understanding VI. You have almost certainly internalized these pieces of information, but you haven't concretized them, perhaps. First: drop all mention of "insert mode" and "command mode". Why? Because "insert mode" doesn't really act like a "mode". It acts like a "command". If people think of an insertion operation (i, a, o, and so on) as being a command "itexttexttext^[" then things that just seemed like quirks of vi suddenly make a lot of sense. Second: don't dwell so early on the shortcut commands. Teach the basic moves and combinations (dw, cw, and so on) and then mention things like "ZZ" and "~" as asides. If you learn the basic command structure before even seeing the shortcuts and special cases it'll really be a lot easier. (also, ZZ is a shortcut for :x^M not :wq^M) From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 07:00:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18828 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18818 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com (root@bonkers.neosoft.com [206.109.2.48]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04528; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:00:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA09245; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 06:34:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 06:34:00 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199609051134.GAA09245@bonkers.taronga.com> To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vi tutorial Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.doc In-Reply-To: References: <199608180723.AAA12015@athena.tera.com> Organization: none Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article , Annelise Anderson wrote: >The arrow keys have always worked for me with FreeBSD (2.0.5 and >later). I think I'm using them in the circumstances where they >supposedly mess everything up. On the other hand if I telnet to a >computer at Stanford running Sun OS 4.1.4, and the arrow keys produce >capital letters. I believe this to be a key-binding problem but I'm not >sure. One problem is that it's not an insert mode, and the arrow keys in insert mode hack in the original VI (and emulated in NVI) was to define a macro that terminates the insert command, does the right move, and starts a new insert command. In NVI, it actually keeps the commands together, which makes things easier for newbies but gets into odd side-effects for experts because the repeat and count features don't work right if you move during an insertion. The other problem is that the beginning of an arrow key escape sequence on most terminals is an escape character. How does VI distinguish a real ESC from an arrow key? Well, it uses timing. Guess what happens if you telnet. Right! All the timing information gets messed up! From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 07:05:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA19211 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.cnc.ac.cn (ns2.cnc.ac.cn [159.226.1.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19184 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:05:29 -0700 (PDT) From: ronsnet@rose.cnc.ac.cn Received: from rose (rose.cnc.ac.cn) by ns2.cnc.ac.cn (5.67b/IDA-1.5) id AA01046; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:18:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199609060618.AA01046@ns2.cnc.ac.cn> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 22:05:09 -0800 To: doc@freebsd.org X-Vms-To: SMTP%"doc@freebsd.org" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 3:18 9/5/96 Hello Everybody of FreeBSD: I am trying to compose a 100~150 paged booklet in Chinese to introduce the magic FreeBSD, it's purposed for the people who has never used FreeBSD, but wishes to do so. I want to insert the following contents into the title: - Introduction to FreeBSD, including * its developing history, * oustanding features FreeBSD vs other common OS; - How to install the FreeBSD on your PC; (a CD-ROM of FreeBSD might be attached, if possible) - X Window on FreeBSD (with some illustrations)-GUI with XFree86; - FreeBSD's Internet connectivity; * how to connect with Intrenet; * how to reengineer the unused 386 PC to a router with FreeBSD. - Utility tools and application programs on FreeBSD; - Java on FreeBSD (if available, I need help here); - FAQ list on FreeBSD (Shall I pay some copyright royalties if I invoke the FAQ in the http://www.FreeBSD.org home pages? ); - Brief explanation to most frequent used FreeBSD commands; - Glossary and Index; - Recommanded further reading list. I hope you could become the co-author(s) with me for the title, and I really appreciate any helps from you by providing any related materials or references, contributed either in emails, or to my snail address of: RON's Datacom Co., Ltd. 79, DongWu Ave., Wuhan, Hubei Province 430040 China P.R. Best wishes+thanks, Hong Feng Presidnet and Managing Director RON's Datacom Co., Ltd. From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 11:29:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA07586 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07581 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA24194; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:28:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA09137; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609051828.LAA09137@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: <199609051126.GAA09077@bonkers.taronga.com> from Peter da Silva at "Sep 5, 96 06:26:38 am" To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Peter da Silva: > > Enclosed is the vi_tutorial that I've been distributing. > > Mind if I make a couple of suggestions? They're pretty deep changes, > but I think are important to really understanding VI. You have almost > certainly internalized these pieces of information, but you haven't > concretized them, perhaps. > > First: drop all mention of "insert mode" and "command mode". Why? > Because "insert mode" doesn't really act like a "mode". It acts like > a "command". If people think of an insertion operation (i, a, o, and > so on) as being a command "itexttexttext^[" then things that just > seemed like quirks of vi suddenly make a lot of sense. I think the reason that the original authors of the helpfile used `mode' was that Bill Joy and Mark Horton used the term when they published their original paper on vi. ---I remember Bill giving me a copy of the paper and learning enough more from it to help bring me much further along 15, 16, 17 or however many years ago it was. At least 16.--- At any rate, following that early tutorial, I stuck with `mode'. > > Second: don't dwell so early on the shortcut commands. Teach the > basic moves and combinations (dw, cw, and so on) and then mention > things like "ZZ" and "~" as asides. If you learn the basic command > structure before even seeing the shortcuts and special cases it'll > really be a lot easier. > > (also, ZZ is a shortcut for :x^M not :wq^M) > Good point about the `ZZ' stuff. Since the purpose of my submitted tutorial is to allow entirely new users to use vi with minimal functionality, I didn't expand very much upon the original structure. If you've read my html version, I give pointers to the early paper and suggest that the user read any of the myriad Unix tutorials type books that cover vi. ---Or perhaps this one can be expanded to be a basic vi-tutorial. Feedback from the documentation folks, please. gary > From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 16:28:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA27822 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27806 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com (root@bonkers.neosoft.com [206.109.2.48]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09760; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:27:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA18045; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:16:53 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199609052316.SAA18045@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial To: kline@tera.com (Gary Kline) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:16:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199609051828.LAA09137@athena.tera.com> from "Gary Kline" at Sep 5, 96 11:28:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think the reason that the original authors of > the helpfile used `mode' was that Bill Joy and > Mark Horton used the term when they published their > original paper on vi. "An Introduction to Display Editing with VI" I know. That tradition has done more to confuse people about VI than anything else in the program or documentation. *sigh* From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 17:03:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29525 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29520 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29417; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA08398; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609060003.RAA08398@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: <199609052316.SAA18045@bonkers.taronga.com> from Peter da Silva at "Sep 5, 96 06:16:53 pm" To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kline@tera.com, peter@taronga.com, doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Peter da Silva: > > I think the reason that the original authors of > > the helpfile used `mode' was that Bill Joy and > > Mark Horton used the term when they published their > > original paper on vi. > > "An Introduction to Display Editing with VI" > > I know. That tradition has done more to confuse people about VI than > anything else in the program or documentation. > > *sigh* > :-) Really how I learned vi was the same way as most of us with roots at Cal:: hacking away at Cory into the wee hours and asking somebody else for _their_ tricks. gary From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 18:15:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA03300 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03295 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09923; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:14:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson Reply-To: Annelise Anderson To: Peter da Silva cc: kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: <199609051126.GAA09077@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Peter da Silva wrote: > > Enclosed is the vi_tutorial that I've been distributing. > > Mind if I make a couple of suggestions? They're pretty deep changes, > but I think are important to really understanding VI. You have almost > certainly internalized these pieces of information, but you haven't > concretized them, perhaps. > > First: drop all mention of "insert mode" and "command mode". Why? > Because "insert mode" doesn't really act like a "mode". It acts like > a "command". If people think of an insertion operation (i, a, o, and > so on) as being a command "itexttexttext^[" then things that just > seemed like quirks of vi suddenly make a lot of sense. There's got to be some way in every program that accepts text, whether it's a word processor, database, or spreadsheet, to distinguish between text to be entered into the document and text that is a command. This is done in Windows and many dos programs in ways that you all know and love and that are obvious to users (so that the distinction need not even be made)--with pull-down menus, function keys, and Ctrl- or Alt- combinations. (Pine/pico also use this approach.) Emacs claims to be "modeless" because it's always in command mode-- typing a letter or number alone is a command to insert text. In whatever way this may be technically true, there is still a distinction between giving a command to enter text and give a command to take some action with regard to the program--e.g., call up another document or whatever. So in vi you can call it the "entering text" command versus the command to write the file and exit, if you like. The distinction must still be made. Then you have to point out that once you give a command to enter text, that command remains in force until it's cancelled in one way or another, and after it's cancelled, other commands can again be entered. You also have to point out that while the command to enter text is in force, certain keys--the arrow keys--function in ways differently from the way the function when the command to enter text is not in force. Is that better or worse? (I think it might be better, actually.) In any event I think what's needed with regard to vi is something oriented toward doing the basic tasks one expects of a text editor/ word processor--entering text, formatting it, moving blocks, cutting or copying from one file and pasting to another, saving changes, exiting without saving changes, searching and replacing, making corrections, reading in a file, exporting part of a file to a new file, exiting to a shell and returning. Some of the things vi does that most editors don't do--entering the output of a command into the text. In the interests of making vi more usable it may be useful to have a section distinguishing what it is possible to do while in command mode (when the "enter text" command is not in effect) versus what it is possible to do while the enter text command is in effect. (Note that there's a third "mode" in the sense of what certain keys--escape, arrows, backspace, enter--do: the "mode" one is in on the command line. A vi tutorial also needs to give some examples on useful command line options and where one would put these to make them the default behavior. The only "editor" that I know of (and I don't know about very many) that competes with vi in functionality is emacs; I'd consider it an open question whether it's a better use of one's time to figure out how to make vi do these things or simply to learn emacs. Or some other text editor. If it's not worth learning to do these things with vi, is it worth writing about? (I think it probably is; the basics of vi are not that difficult; what's difficult is finding the information on how to do anything that isn't basic.) I would ignore history almost entirely. I would be inclined to tell users that the version of vi running on FreeBSD is nvi, and if they want other Unix vi's to work the way FreeBSD vi does, they have to call nvi. > > Second: don't dwell so early on the shortcut commands. Teach the > basic moves and combinations (dw, cw, and so on) and then mention > things like "ZZ" and "~" as asides. If you learn the basic command > structure before even seeing the shortcuts and special cases it'll > really be a lot easier. > > (also, ZZ is a shortcut for :x^M not :wq^M) Agreed--I'd also minimize "basic moves" and go for doing tasks. Annelise From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Sep 5 18:47:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04822 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04801 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonkers.taronga.com (root@bonkers.neosoft.com [206.109.2.48]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22171; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:47:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA20640; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:37:44 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199609060137.UAA20640@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 20:37:43 -0500 (CDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Annelise Anderson" at Sep 5, 96 06:14:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There's got to be some way in every program that accepts text, whether > it's a word processor, database, or spreadsheet, to distinguish between > text to be entered into the document and text that is a command. Correct. And in VI that is to create a command that enters text into a document. Consider what happens when you type "." after inserting text, or you type "10ihi ^[". The command to repeat commands operates on the whole insertion. This explains why you don't want to move in this "insert mode". This explains why you can't "backspace past the beginning of an insert". I'm not saying this because modelessness is supposedly good, but because insert doesn't act like a "mode" (as it does in other editors I've used, for example IBM's personal editor) at all. > Is that better or worse? (I think it might be better, actually.) It's better to treat insert as a command, simply because it explains why insert acts like a command. From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 01:54:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA06354 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (root@rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.9.61]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA06348 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 01:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rzdspc2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (root@rzdspc2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.9.62]) by rzdspc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12708 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:54:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from rzdspc2 (benecke@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rzdspc2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08329 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:54:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <322FE6B3.7085@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:54:11 +0200 From: Carsten Benecke X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Section 7.6.1.5 Output Filters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, you have done a great job. After reading your notes about the BSD printing system I was able to write my own input and output filters for our postscript printers. There ist one thing you may want to update in section 7.6.1.5 (Output Filters). If you ask lpr for copies (e.g. lpr -#3 text.ps) the lpd will send the code \031\001 to the of-filter each time it starts the if-filter. After an if-filter process has printed one copy the lpd will issue a SIGCONT (for its of-child). So the of-filter has to receive the code \031 \001 and stop itself until it receives an EOF on STDIN (e.g. the lpd closes the pipe). This is true for our SunOS (BSD-like) printing system. It may be true for FreeBSD. Bye, CB -- Carsten Benecke Universitaet Hamburg, FB-Informatik (Rechenzentrum) Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30, 22527 Hamburg Behoerde: 9003-2294 email: benecke@informatik.uni-hamburg.de Tel.: 040 5494-2294 From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 08:30:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01262 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cindy.surfsouth.com (root@cindy.surfsouth.com [206.154.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01256 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (dial-tif1-6.surfsouth.com [206.154.24.55]) by cindy.surfsouth.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24686 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32306C8B.A1D@surfsouth.com> Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 11:25:16 -0700 From: Kenny Hill X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Join this mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to join this mailing list, as it will keep me up on Freebsd. Thanx, Kenny khill@surfsouth.com From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 10:27:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA15095 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA15089 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08011; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA12896; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609061726.KAA12896@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: from Annelise Anderson at "Sep 5, 96 06:14:21 pm" To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@taronga.com, kline@tera.com, doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Annelise Anderson: > > > On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Peter da Silva wrote: > > > > Enclosed is the vi_tutorial that I've been distributing. > > > > [[ ... ]] > > There's got to be some way in every program that accepts text, whether > it's a word processor, database, or spreadsheet, to distinguish between > text to be entered into the document and text that is a command. > > This is done in Windows and many dos programs in ways that you all > know and love and that are obvious to users (so that the distinction > need not even be made)--with pull-down menus, function keys, and > Ctrl- or Alt- combinations. (Pine/pico also use this approach.) > > Emacs claims to be "modeless" because it's always in command mode-- > typing a letter or number alone is a command to insert text. In > whatever way this may be technically true, there is still a distinction > between giving a command to enter text and give a command to take some > action with regard to the program--e.g., call up another document or > whatever. > > So in vi you can call it the "entering text" command versus the command > to write the file and exit, if you like. The distinction must still be > made. Then you have to point out that once you give a command to > enter text, that command remains in force until it's cancelled in one > way or another, and after it's cancelled, other commands can again be > entered. You also have to point out that while the command to enter > text is in force, certain keys--the arrow keys--function in ways > differently from the way the function when the command to enter text > is not in force. > > Is that better or worse? (I think it might be better, actually.) > > In any event I think what's needed with regard to vi is something > oriented toward doing the basic tasks one expects of a text editor/ > word processor--entering text, formatting it, moving blocks, cutting > or copying from one file and pasting to another, saving changes, > exiting without saving changes, searching and replacing, making > corrections, reading in a file, exporting part of a file to a new > file, exiting to a shell and returning. Some of the things vi does that > most editors don't do--entering the output of a command into the text. > > In the interests of making vi more usable it may be useful to have a > section distinguishing what it is possible to do while in command > mode (when the "enter text" command is not in effect) versus what it > is possible to do while the enter text command is in effect. (Note > that there's a third "mode" in the sense of what certain keys--escape, > arrows, backspace, enter--do: the "mode" one is in on the command > line. > > A vi tutorial also needs to give some examples on useful command line > options and where one would put these to make them the default > behavior. > > The only "editor" that I know of (and I don't know about very many) > that competes with vi in functionality is emacs; I'd consider it an > open question whether it's a better use of one's time to figure out > how to make vi do these things or simply to learn emacs. Or some > other text editor. If it's not worth learning to do these things > with vi, is it worth writing about? (I think it probably is; the basics > of vi are not that difficult; what's difficult is finding the information > on how to do anything that isn't basic.) > > I would ignore history almost entirely. I would be inclined to tell > users that the version of vi running on FreeBSD is nvi, and if they > want other Unix vi's to work the way FreeBSD vi does, they have to > call nvi. > > > [[ ... ]] According to Keith Bostic, nvi is a feature-for-feature, bug-for-bug clone of vi. Which is close enough to the truth that for all reasonable purposes, vi and nvi are equivalent. Perhaps a footnote or a parenthetical comment would suffice... . You've raised some good points, Annelise--as did Peter-- about discussing the basics of vi. But which basics? Every user has his own favorite subset of vi commands and we we used every subset, the tutorial would probably defeat its purpose. Namely, of allowing new users to be able to function reasonably. Peter suggested `cw' which I use very frequently. This in the `Replacing text' section. Would `cf' be overkill? Or for change to the end-of-line: `C'? Or in the deletion section, `d\' Or `D' to delete from cursor to end-of-line? Other basics that I use are `o' and `O'; and `A' and `I'. And `f' or `F' The dot `.' to repeat-last-command. Some of these might be overkill. Ideally, this kind of overview will help users become familiar with vi. We-- I alone, or with others--can write a second piece that would, in tutorial form, give many more fine points. emacs or xemacs seems to have grown into an environment in itself. Many of my co-workers bring up xemacs and rarely bring up another xterm. You can write/code, compile, debug, re-code, recompile; send mail, read news, and probably much more that I haven't heard yet. My bias is to have separate tools for individual tasks; though this may change if I ever get brave enough! At any rate, if interested people would send me their favor vi commands, I'll toss them into the brew and then re-submit. gary From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 11:22:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA17936 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gamespot.com (ns1.gamespot.com [206.169.18.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA17922; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tech-a.gamespot.com (tech-a.gamespot.com [206.169.18.59]) by gamespot.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04609; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:10:58 GMT Message-Id: <199609061110.LAA04609@gamespot.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Ian Kallen" To: "S(pork)" Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:17:17 +0000 Subject: Re: 3Com cards/quotas Reply-to: ian@gamespot.com CC: questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The commentary about "buggy" really ought to be amended. The 3c509b's that I run have run flawlessly and the "buggy" refers to motherboards that don't reset the ISA on a warm reboot, which obviously is not everybody. Others have written into the list corroborating successful use of the 3c509b's as well. Again the only caveat is to turn off plug n play with the 3c5x9cfg utility on the 3com DOS disk. The questions about "Is it _really_ buggy?" have become sufficiently common that I'm hearby volunteering to write a FAQ entry for "How come the 3c509 might be buggy?" - If the author of the ep driver (for the 3c5x9 cards) would like additional information, I may be able to get through to an engineer at 3com. I'm quite happy with the card anyway on freeBSD and Win95. (BTW, the freeBSD boxes I have are busy ftp servers and name/mail servers for us - definitely doing fine in production network applications) regards > Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:31:20 -0500 (CDT) > From: "S(pork)" > To: questions@freebsd.org > Subject: 3Com cards/quotas > Hi, > > I recently installed FreeBSD 2.1 and I was really impressed with how easy > it was. I just have a few questions dealing with the online > documentation; specifically two issues... > > We almost exclusively run Linux here, and the 3Com cards work great. We > like to stick with one vendor/model as much as possible so spares are easy > to keep around. In the online handbook, I see the 3C509 has a note next > to it that says (buggy). It seems to be OK, but this will be a production > machine. What I'm wondering is whether the handbook is referring to 2.1 > or 2.1.5 or both and if the driver is truly buggy what might be > recommended as far as another ethernet card. > > Also, there will be user accounts on this box, and I'd like to implement > quotas. The handbook has a nice how-to, but in /etc/sysconfig I see a > warning about turning on quotas. Is this still flakey, and could anyone > recommend whether or not the quota system would be OK on a production > machine? > > I've got a third question as well (sorry): What is the upper limit on the > amount of memory FreeBSD 2.1 or 2.1.5 will recognize? > > Any suggestions on these issues are greatly appreciated... As I mentioned > currently 2.1 is installed (made the mistake of going thru InfoMagic > instead of Walnut Creek) but I'm open to 2.1.5 as soon as the other CD > arrives here... > > Thanks, > > Charles Sprickman > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Internet Channel SysAdmin Team Internet Channel > spork@super-g.com 212-243-5200 > spork@inch.com access@inch.com > > > Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology & Web Administration http://www.gamespot.com From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 12:44:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA23178 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA23169 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilligan.eng.umd.edu (gilligan.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.21]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA28388; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by gilligan.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00715; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:44:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: gilligan.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:44:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@gilligan.eng.umd.edu To: Kenny Hill cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Join this mailing list In-Reply-To: <32306C8B.A1D@surfsouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Kenny Hill wrote: > I'd like to join this mailing list, as it will keep me up on > Freebsd. Thanx, Kenny khill@surfsouth.com Couple of points, Kenny: 1) You subscribe by sending mail to majordomo@freebsd.org, not the list. 2) FreeBSD-doc is where issues regarding the production of documentation are discussed, and it's in general a poor place to pick up general FreeBSD information. You can get a list of all the various lists by asking majordomo, but you will probably wan to consider the FreeBSD-Questions and FreeBSD-Hackers lists, both of which discuss general FreeBSD topics. > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2..2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 13:03:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA27908 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [193.125.152.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27862 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA21399 (5.65.kiae-2 for doc@freebsd.org); Fri, 6 Sep 1996 23:12:43 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 6 Sep 96 23:12:43 +0300 Received: from localhost by gw.mgsu.msk.su id PAA00142; (8.6.5/vak/1.8a) Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:05:49 +0400 To: doc@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Merani Ltd. From: "Alexey Krasnov" Date: Fri, 6 Sep 96 11:05:48 +0000 X-Mailer: BML [UNIX Beauty Mail v.1.39] Subject: Help. Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Help. I need manual pages on FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. Alex. From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 15:48:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05994 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.cnc.ac.cn (ns2.cnc.ac.cn [159.226.1.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05984 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:48:46 -0700 (PDT) From: ronsnet@rose.cnc.ac.cn Received: from rose (rose.cnc.ac.cn) by ns2.cnc.ac.cn (5.67b/IDA-1.5) id AA17187; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 07:01:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199609071501.AA17187@ns2.cnc.ac.cn> Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 06:48:21 -0800 To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, doc@freebsd.org X-Vms-To: SMTP%"andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu" X-Vms-Cc: SMTP%"doc@freebsd.org" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 6-SEP-1996 05:05:24.41 wrote: >Wonderful idea! It will be a lot of work. > >I wrote a 10-page document for people who are new to both FreeBSD and >Unix and will enclose a copy. It's also available on >http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/newuser/newuser.html but here it is in ascii. >It could be part of your brief explanation of most frequently used FreeBSD command. > >Annelise > > For People New to Both FreeBSD and Unix > Annelise Anderson > > July 30, 1996 Many thanks for your materials, I will try to combine your file into the title. Best regards, Hong Feng From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 15:59:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA06522 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA06496 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA11143; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson Reply-To: Annelise Anderson To: Gary Kline cc: peter@taronga.com, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: <199609061726.KAA12896@athena.tera.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Gary Kline wrote: > At any rate, if interested people would send me their > favor vi commands, I'll toss them into the brew and > then re-submit. > > gary Okay, these are my favorites: :se nu number lines "a10dd cut 10 lines of text starting at cursor, saving it in buffer a; or "a10yy copy 10 lines of text to buffer a :e filename edit filename without losing text in named buffers "ap paste text in buffer a at line following current line :x,yw filename copy lines x to y (x and y are numbers) to filename :x,yw >> filename append lines x to y to filename (there may be other better ways to do this) :r !cmd place output of cmd in text at cursor :r filename read filename into text :se nonu turn off line numbering And some I think you've already got, e.g., nG, Ctrl-G, n (repeat last search in same direction) and search and replace. Given Peter's explanation of the action of the cursor keys when in insert mode ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H when inserting: "When inserting text you can backspace over inserted text (although it won't disappear) and overstrike it. The use of any arrow key during an insertion completes the action (the text you backspaced over will disappear if not overstruck), moves the cursor in the direction of the arrow, and leaves you in insert mode ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H starts another insert command." (Footnote: if you're using vi on a computer running some Un*x other than FreeBSD, you may need to call nvi instead of vi to make the arrow keys work this way.) I think that paragraph's a correct description of the action of the arrow keys when in insert, uh, when the insert command is active, but it may need a little fixing. Annelise From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 16:26:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA09330 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hod (hod.tera.com [206.215.142.67]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA09324 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [206.215.142.62]) by hod (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14142; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:25:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA25434; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609062325.QAA25434@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: vi tutorial In-Reply-To: from Annelise Anderson at "Sep 6, 96 03:57:10 pm" To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kline@tera.com, peter@taronga.com, doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Annelise Anderson: > > > On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Gary Kline wrote: > > > At any rate, if interested people would send me their > > favor vi commands, I'll toss them into the brew and > > then re-submit. > > > > gary > > Okay, these are my favorites: > > :se nu number lines > "a10dd cut 10 lines of text starting at cursor, saving > it in buffer a; or > "a10yy copy 10 lines of text to buffer a > :e filename edit filename without losing text in named buffers > "ap paste text in buffer a at line following current line > :x,yw filename copy lines x to y (x and y are numbers) to > filename > :x,yw >> filename append lines x to y to filename (there > may be other better ways to do this) > :r !cmd place output of cmd in text at cursor > :r filename read filename into text > :se nonu turn off line numbering > > And some I think you've already got, e.g., nG, Ctrl-G, n (repeat last > search in same direction) and search and replace. > > Given Peter's explanation of the action of the cursor keys when in > insert mode ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H when inserting: > > "When inserting text you can backspace over inserted text (although it > won't disappear) and overstrike it. The use of any arrow key during > an insertion completes the action (the text you backspaced over will > disappear if not overstruck), moves the cursor in the direction of the > arrow, and leaves you in insert mode ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H > ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H starts another insert command." (Footnote: if > you're using vi on a computer running some Un*x other than FreeBSD, > you may need to call nvi instead of vi to make the arrow keys work > this way.) > > I think that paragraph's a correct description of the action of the > arrow keys when in insert, uh, when the insert command is active, but > it may need a little fixing. > (( :-) )) Thanks for your faves, Annelise. I'll wait a few days for others' input, then go ahead with whatever mix I get. One of my most frequently used :set commands is `ai' (and `noai', of course). Re the mode/command discussion, I'm going to stick with mode; and will plug in Peter's explainatory and cautionary notes. Yes, I have typed `.' after hitting ESC. Myriad times. Fortunately, vi has the `u'ndo toggle. later on, gary > > > From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Sep 6 18:44:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15886 for doc-outgoing; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (cisco-ts13-line14.uoregon.edu [128.223.150.163]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15880 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA00230; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: ronsnet@rose.cnc.ac.cn cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199609060618.AA01046@ns2.cnc.ac.cn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 ronsnet@rose.cnc.ac.cn wrote: > - Introduction to FreeBSD, including > * its developing history, > * oustanding features FreeBSD vs other common OS; > - How to install the FreeBSD on your PC; > (a CD-ROM of FreeBSD might be attached, if possible) > - X Window on FreeBSD (with some illustrations)-GUI with XFree86; > - FreeBSD's Internet connectivity; > * how to connect with Intrenet; > * how to reengineer the unused 386 PC to a router with FreeBSD. > - Utility tools and application programs on FreeBSD; > - Java on FreeBSD (if available, I need help here); > - FAQ list on FreeBSD (Shall I pay some copyright royalties if I invoke the > FAQ in the http://www.FreeBSD.org home pages? ); > - Brief explanation to most frequent used FreeBSD commands; > - Glossary and Index; > - Recommanded further reading list. To be honest, this is basically the FreeBSD Handbook with some extensions/tutorials added. Browse http://www.freebsd.org/ and look under Documentation if you haven't yet. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Sep 7 09:41:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17367 for doc-outgoing; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 09:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17358 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11793 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 11:41:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 11:41:30 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Default paper size Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there any place on the planet other than the USA that uses 8.5x11 inch paper? I'm thinking of clever ways to set the paper size. Basically if (LANG is not set, or LANG == en_US.*) use US Letter else use a4 Would this work for most people? Of course, there would be a manual override. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fallout.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ================