From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 08:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13680 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13662 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25303; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:35:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Greg Lehey , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did the chicken cross the road? In-Reply-To: <19980702013921.34475@futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA13673 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I heard from the guys when I was at USENIX that penguin tastes like alligator...go figure... ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Thu, Jul 02, 1998 at 08:34:13AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav woke me up to tell me: > > Greg Lehey writes: > > > On Wednesday, 1 July 1998 at 15:07:43 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > > Mark Ovens writes: > > > > Linux Chicken: Thanks to the cooperation of thousands of volunteer > > > > chicken from the Internet, there is now an ostrich on the other side > > > > of the road. > > > Wasn't that a penguin? > > > > Whatever :) but it sure ain't a chicken. > > Does penguin taste like chicken? > > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | > * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * > | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| > * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * > | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 08:08:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA14452 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA14447 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14153; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:44:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: Tim Vanderhoek cc: Greg Lehey , David Caldwell , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: <19980703022310.B4457@zappo> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I totally agree about the "why" thinkgs work the way they do, also, if you introduce something tangible to them, sometimes kids grasp concepts better (an example, although it seems to be later on in my life than 9 years old:) When I was in High School, I did well in geometry and trig, but sucked in Algebra and Calc, but I excelled in Chemistry and Physics, I realized later that the sciences were just tangible Algebra and Calculus *shrug* (at least in a very simplified sense). It was the fact these things were conceptualized for me that I got it. Now the concepts of algebra and calculus are firmly imbedded in my mind =) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 08:23:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA15199 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15191 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:23:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10512; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:00:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:00:09 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: Wes Peters cc: kline@tera.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: <199807040802.CAA02757@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I had actually found a good logo interpreter, but I can't remember where it is now...... it was like one of those things...."Wow, I remember LOGO, I wanna play with this some more" when I was in grammar school, they taught the computer classes with logo, it got to the point some of us were actually doing simplistic animations with it. it might take me a few days to find, but I'll post it when I find it ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > My hidden microphone recorded Gary Kline (kline@tera.com) saying: > > % I'm watching this discussion with considerable interest > % since my 32-month-old daughter is very interested in my > % computer. So far she's learned virtually all the ASCII > % character set, and in another few years I think that > % she will be ready for much more. > % > % What's the consensus on BASIC? Or FORTRAN? xcoral has > % a C interpreter that could be broken out... . > % > % Bright children really do absorb things quickly; just > % how quickly has amazed me no end! > > My daughter is 27 months old next week, and is already a skilled computer > user. She has 3 programs on CD-ROM of her own, and gets another one every 2 > or 3 months. She can load the CD herself, and has become quite proficient at > using the keyboard-driven programs. > > We bought her first, called "Baby Rom," last fall when she was 18 months old. > She learned the entire alphabet in 9 weeks, and the numbers 1-9 in another 2 > weeks. > > Since then, we've added the Fisher-Price Barnyard CD. She can now tell you > what kinds of food all of the common barnyard animals eat, how plants grow > from seeds, and the names of the common barnyard animals and their babies. > > She's still not quite "getting" the use of the mouse, though she's willing to > try. She enjoys typing and identifying the letters she makes, and can type > any letter you ask her to. > > I think I'll wait till after her third birthday, then find a good Logo > implementation. If there isn't one already, it shouldn't be too difficult to > create one, it's a pretty simple language. Anyone around here have a > yacc-able grammer for Logo? > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 09:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19676 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19671 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.127]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03474; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA24351; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807051631.JAA24351@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: from P Lynch at "Jul 5, 98 12:00:09 pm" To: lynch@rush.net (P Lynch) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, kline@tera.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to P Lynch: > I had actually found a good logo interpreter, but I can't remember where > it is now...... > > it was like one of those things...."Wow, I remember LOGO, I wanna play > with this some more" > > when I was in grammar school, they taught the computer classes with logo, > it got to the point some of us were actually doing simplistic animations > with it. it might take me a few days to find, but I'll post it when I find > it > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > > My hidden microphone recorded Gary Kline (kline@tera.com) saying: > > > > % I'm watching this discussion with considerable interest > > % since my 32-month-old daughter is very interested in my > > % computer. So far she's learned virtually all the ASCII > > % character set, and in another few years I think that > > % she will be ready for much more. > > % > > % What's the consensus on BASIC? Or FORTRAN? xcoral has > > % a C interpreter that could be broken out... . > > % > > % Bright children really do absorb things quickly; just > > % how quickly has amazed me no end! > > > > My daughter is 27 months old next week, and is already a skilled computer > > user. She has 3 programs on CD-ROM of her own, and gets another one every 2 > > or 3 months. She can load the CD herself, and has become quite proficient at > > using the keyboard-driven programs. > > > > We bought her first, called "Baby Rom," last fall when she was 18 months old. > > She learned the entire alphabet in 9 weeks, and the numbers 1-9 in another 2 > > weeks. > > > > Since then, we've added the Fisher-Price Barnyard CD. She can now tell you > > what kinds of food all of the common barnyard animals eat, how plants grow > > from seeds, and the names of the common barnyard animals and their babies. > > > > She's still not quite "getting" the use of the mouse, though she's willing to > > try. She enjoys typing and identifying the letters she makes, and can type > > any letter you ask her to. > > > > I think I'll wait till after her third birthday, then find a good Logo > > implementation. If there isn't one already, it shouldn't be too difficult to > > create one, it's a pretty simple language. Anyone around here have a > > yacc-able grammer for Logo? > > > > -- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > About the only reason we bought a DOS box was that it was the only means of running the educational CD's. --I haven't seen the Fisher-Price CD's yet, thanks for the tip, Wes. There are scores of these for young and older children, but which are good (or better) and which not is one those cosmic mysteries. ...Or then again, I just may not have found the right magazine(s). Whenever you find LOGO for FBSD, I'd like to check it out, Pat. I heard of it years ago, but that's it. It'd be nice to have some tools to cobble together an environment that Allyson could play with on this platform. Not be totally infected by dos. thanks, people, gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 10:16:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26011 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from torrentnet.com (bacardi.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24734 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@torrentnet.com) Received: from chai.torrentnet.com (chai.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.73]) by torrentnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00425; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chai.torrentnet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chai.torrentnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18872; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807051716.NAA18872@chai.torrentnet.com> To: Gary Kline Cc: lynch@rush.net (P Lynch), wes@softweyr.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Jul 1998 09:31:00 PDT." <199807051631.JAA24351@athena.tera.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:16:19 -0400 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > --I haven't seen the Fisher-Price CD's yet, thanks for the > tip, Wes. There are scores of these for young and older > children, but which are good (or better) and which not is > one those cosmic mysteries. ...Or then again, I just may > not have found the right magazine(s). Is it time for freebsd-kids or freebsd-toys yet? :-) > Whenever you find LOGO for FBSD, I'd like to check it out, > Pat. I heard of it years ago, but that's it. It'd be nice > to have some tools to cobble together an environment that > Allyson could play with on this platform. Not be totally > infected by dos. There is the ucblogo-3.3. in ports/lang/logo. I haven't played with it in ages so no idea how it has evolved but it does have X windows interface. MSWLogo is the one I like. Con: it only works on M$ Windows. Pros: It is based on ucblogo; its author, George Mills, has put in a heck of a lot of work especially in supporting multimedia. it is fairly easy to make it play music/sound, do animation etc. It comes with a demo that has a nice set of examples for doing many of these things. Check out http://www.softronix.com and ftp://cher.media.mit.edu/pub/logo/software The same can be done in the FreeBSD world now that it has such good multimedia support. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 10:23:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03001 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02051 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 10:23:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA03271; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:17:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: P Lynch cc: Greg Lehey , David Caldwell , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, P Lynch wrote: > I totally agree about the "why" thinkgs work the way they do, also, if you > introduce something tangible to them, sometimes kids grasp concepts better Yup. Actually for some kids, even to remember eg. the alphabet they need something that they can feel (such as little building blocks with letters on them), or someway to associate the information with a physical action. > When I was in High School, I did well in geometry and trig, but sucked in > Algebra and Calc, but I excelled in Chemistry and Physics, I realized > later that the sciences were just tangible Algebra and Calculus *shrug* I guess it depends how they teach those particular two subjects (Chem and Phys)... -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 14:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07743 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07714 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA23987; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:48:39 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980706054837.33029@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:48:37 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) References: <199807051631.JAA24351@athena.tera.com> <199807051716.NAA18872@chai.torrentnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199807051716.NAA18872@chai.torrentnet.com>; from Bakul Shah on Sun, Jul 05, 1998 at 01:16:19PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 05, 1998 at 01:16:19PM -0400, Bakul Shah wrote: > Is it time for freebsd-kids or freebsd-toys yet? :-) Errr... no :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 5 17:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26984 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26866 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (harconia-2-162.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.133.228]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id TAA02621; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:39:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id TAA04837; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:39:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980706003906.ZM4836@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:39:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders)" (Jul 5, 10:24am) References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 5, 10:24am, Greg Lehey wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multi > On Saturday, 4 July 1998 at 16:59:41 +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jul 4, 4:58pm, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Now if there's one thing that *really* pisses me off, it's that nobody > >> has stopped Microsoft from shipping Internet Exploder because it is in > >> breach of contract. I would have hoped that Sun could say "ship it > >> with correct Java, ship it without Java, or don't ship it". If they > >> can't get that done, I don't see that they can help us in what is > >> primarily a matter of recognition. > >> > >> Greg > > > > Greg, arn't Sun and Microsoft presently in litigation over this very issue? I > > know that SUN has brought suit against Microsoft for their bastardising of > > Java, and I think that it also relates to IE as well. > > Yes, that's exactly the point. What disappointed me was that they > were not able to get an injunction stopping the delivery until it was > conformant with the contract. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Greg Lehey Sometimes the justice system in the US works in puzzling ways. As I understand it the DOJ had an injunction but it was overturned by a higher court. I could be wrong about this. To the best of my recollection, Sun's case is going to trial in September. SO that is apparently is the next best shot to stop them from putting their shit on the market. Given the money that M$ has and the way the justice system works here, M$ could well bankrupt Sun and the whole issue becomes moot. Personally, I would love to see Sun kick M$'s butt right over their shoulder. Maybe it will be Caldera that finally kicks M$'s butt. ;-) Ray Norda has had a hardon for Bill Gates for a long time now. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 06:13:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06367 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06356 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22626; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:13:11 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA14964; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:13:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980706151310.27504@follo.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:13:10 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: connecting NT and FBSD via tcp/ip over ethernet References: <199807040720.BAA02577@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199807040720.BAA02577@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 01:20:28AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 01:20:28AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > And NT 4.0 nearly always gets the netmask WRONG in the control panel. > If you enter a class C address, it chooses the class B netmask of > 255.255.0.0. Doh! "But, that netmask worked during testing. How can this be wrong?" (Microslop has a class B, IIRC). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 06:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07508 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from colossus.dyn.ml.org (dburr@199-170-160-224.la.inreach.net [199.107.160.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07487; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id GAA02795; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:21:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 06:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New FreeBSD app alert!!! Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was cleaning out my inbox and saw this neat little thing. I thought I'd pass it on to the FreeBSD community to share and enjoy. Anyway, the program is called Freequalizer, and it is basically a server management thingie that allows you to build a cluster of TCP/IP servers, and it does load balancing, network address translating (to allow any number of servers to sit behind a single IP address), server failure detection, and a lot of other goodies. Apparently this package has been out for quite a while, and is used by a lot of big Internet sites (they cite the Internet Movie DAtabase (www.imdb.com) as an example). And the best part is... it is available in a downloadable package form, *free of charge* to the FreeBSD community. (the free version has some limitations, though...) Still and all, though, IMHO, this is a Very Good Thing(tm), because any new apps ported and made available for FreeBSD can only benefit us. Maybe someone should hack up something for -announce re: this?... -----FW: <3.0.3.32.19980625150541.007c9dd0@shell2.ba.best.com>----- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:05:41 -0700 From: "Coyote Point Systems, Inc. - Marc Roth" To: dburr@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD Hi Donald, Please take a look at our upcoming FreeBSD software announcement and let me know what you think. http://www.coyotepoint.com/freequalizer.shtml Best Regards, Marc Roth Vice President, Business Development Coyote Point Systems, Inc. (650) 969 6000 --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- --- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations - http://www.freebsd.org/ (NOTE: POBoxes.com appears to be working again -- fire away!) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 09:04:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01648 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [207.126.97.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01612 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03200; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:04:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:04:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199807061604.JAA03200@kithrup.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New FreeBSD app alert!!! In-Reply-To: Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: marc@coyotepoint.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >I was cleaning out my inbox and saw this neat little thing. I thought I'd >pass it on to the FreeBSD community to share and enjoy. And it was apparantly spammed out. I suspected that was the case, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I do not do business with spammers -- I get them cut off the net instead. Coyotepoint.com is handled by best.com. Send complaints to abuse@best.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 10:13:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11410 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from colossus.dyn.ml.org (dburr@199-170-160-224.la.inreach.net [199.107.160.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11397; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA19519; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: freebsd-advocacy@colossus.dyn.ml.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Public apology for my recent posting Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a public apology regarding my recent posting to these lists. Several people have made me aware that these people had spammed this message to all e-mail addresses @freebsd.org. I was not aware of this. For the record, I have *NO* relations with the Coyote POint folks -- I do not work for them, I'm not related to anyone who works for them, etc. I just saw this in my inbox, thought "hmm, I must've subscribed to some sort of -announce list a long time ago, and they sent me something", and figured that I would forward it on to the lists since it seemed to me to be a Good Thing (tm). I was unaware of the extenuating circumstances. - dburr --- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations - http://www.freebsd.org/ (NOTE: POBoxes.com appears to be working again -- fire away!) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 10:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20143 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:58:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20065; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA05891; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:50:07 GMT Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:50:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Donald Burr cc: freebsd-advocacy@colossus.dyn.ml.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Public apology for my recent posting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Donald Burr wrote: > This is a public apology regarding my recent posting to these lists. > Several people have made me aware that these people had spammed this > message to all e-mail addresses @freebsd.org. I was not aware of this. Really? Your posting was the first I had seen of Coyotepoint. And I am subscribed to several lists, Maybe I just missed it. Maybe I am missing your point, but are we boycotting them because they spammed the lists? Doesn't seem right if that is the case. Please elaborate a little, cause I want to put this in the next issue of the RQN. Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 11:36:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27349 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27329 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29859; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:12:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:12:33 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: Gary Kline cc: wes@softweyr.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: <199807051631.JAA24351@athena.tera.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary, found it, its at http://http.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh, its a logo interpreter written by Brian Harvey. and its pretty good =) ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 5 Jul 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > According to P Lynch: > > I had actually found a good logo interpreter, but I can't remember where > > it is now...... > > > > it was like one of those things...."Wow, I remember LOGO, I wanna play > > with this some more" > > > > when I was in grammar school, they taught the computer classes with logo, > > it got to the point some of us were actually doing simplistic animations > > with it. it might take me a few days to find, but I'll post it when I find > > it > > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net > > Systems Administrator Rush Networking > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > > > > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > My hidden microphone recorded Gary Kline (kline@tera.com) saying: > > > > > > % I'm watching this discussion with considerable interest > > > % since my 32-month-old daughter is very interested in my > > > % computer. So far she's learned virtually all the ASCII > > > % character set, and in another few years I think that > > > % she will be ready for much more. > > > % > > > % What's the consensus on BASIC? Or FORTRAN? xcoral has > > > % a C interpreter that could be broken out... . > > > % > > > % Bright children really do absorb things quickly; just > > > % how quickly has amazed me no end! > > > > > > My daughter is 27 months old next week, and is already a skilled computer > > > user. She has 3 programs on CD-ROM of her own, and gets another one every 2 > > > or 3 months. She can load the CD herself, and has become quite proficient at > > > using the keyboard-driven programs. > > > > > > We bought her first, called "Baby Rom," last fall when she was 18 months old. > > > She learned the entire alphabet in 9 weeks, and the numbers 1-9 in another 2 > > > weeks. > > > > > > Since then, we've added the Fisher-Price Barnyard CD. She can now tell you > > > what kinds of food all of the common barnyard animals eat, how plants grow > > > from seeds, and the names of the common barnyard animals and their babies. > > > > > > She's still not quite "getting" the use of the mouse, though she's willing to > > > try. She enjoys typing and identifying the letters she makes, and can type > > > any letter you ask her to. > > > > > > I think I'll wait till after her third birthday, then find a good Logo > > > implementation. If there isn't one already, it shouldn't be too difficult to > > > create one, it's a pretty simple language. Anyone around here have a > > > yacc-able grammer for Logo? > > > > > > -- > > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > About the only reason we bought a DOS box was that it was > the only means of running the educational CD's. > > --I haven't seen the Fisher-Price CD's yet, thanks for the > tip, Wes. There are scores of these for young and older > children, but which are good (or better) and which not is > one those cosmic mysteries. ...Or then again, I just may > not have found the right magazine(s). > > Whenever you find LOGO for FBSD, I'd like to check it out, > Pat. I heard of it years ago, but that's it. It'd be nice > to have some tools to cobble together an environment that > Allyson could play with on this platform. Not be totally > infected by dos. > > thanks, people, > > gary > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 11:40:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27652 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27600; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199807061840.LAA27600@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Public apology for my recent posting In-Reply-To: from Donald Burr at "Jul 6, 98 10:13:25 am" To: dburr@POBoxes.com (Donald Burr) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@colossus.dyn.ml.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Donald Burr wrote: > This is a public apology regarding my recent posting to these lists. > Several people have made me aware that these people had spammed this > message to all e-mail addresses @freebsd.org. I was not aware of this. > > For the record, I have *NO* relations with the Coyote POint folks -- I do > not work for them, I'm not related to anyone who works for them, etc. I > just saw this in my inbox, thought "hmm, I must've subscribed to some sort > of -announce list a long time ago, and they sent me something", and > figured that I would forward it on to the lists since it seemed to me to > be a Good Thing (tm). I was unaware of the extenuating circumstances. dont feel to bad donald, after reading the message i considered sending it on to frebsd-isp, but didnt. shame they chose to spam us at some point in the past. looked like an interesting product. ;( jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 12:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05647 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vanessa.eliuk.org (pme71.sunshine.net [209.17.178.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05634 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by vanessa.eliuk.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA00330; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cagey@vanessa.eliuk.org) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:45:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kevin G. Eliuk" Reply-To: "Kevin G. Eliuk" To: Nick Finck cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: DPI Hot Web Tech Award for the week of July 6th 1998 In-Reply-To: <000001bda8f6$35a0e540$b1d581d0@sd005.WHITEHORSE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Congratulations FreeBSD, On Mon, 6 July 1998, Nick Finck wrote: => Hot Web Tech: => ---------------------------------------------------------------- => This week's Hot Web Tech is FreeBSD. This BSD UNIX operating system for => "PC-compatible" computers is idea for Intranet and Internet servers. Backed ^^^^? ideal => with robust network services and the ability to run multiple network => services with little impact on memory gives FreeBSD a step ahead of the => Competition. To add to the benefits, it's free! => ---------------------------------------------------------------- :-) From a FreeBSD user. Regards, Discover Rock Solid Kevin G. Eliuk Discover FreeBSD http://www.FreeBSD.Org --==**==-- --==**==-- --==**==----==**==-- --==**==-- --==**==-- All of my opinions are my own and in no way reflect those of my employers, past, present, or future, either real or imagined. --==**==-- --==**==-- --==**==-- --==**==-- --==**==-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 6 12:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06480 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06473 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.127]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28825; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA00723; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807061950.MAA00723@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: Beginning user's OS (was: Here is a really odd question!!!) In-Reply-To: from P Lynch at "Jul 6, 98 03:12:33 pm" To: lynch@rush.net (P Lynch) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kline@tera.com, wes@softweyr.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to P Lynch: > Gary, found it, its at http://http.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh, its a logo > interpreter written by Brian Harvey. > > and its pretty good =) > [[[ .. ]]] Thanks, people. Now there are two logo interpreters to check out. (Play with. :) gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 7 03:04:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01308 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01301; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13932; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:03:32 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA21163; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:03:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980707120330.22921@follo.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:03:30 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Chris Coleman , Donald Burr Cc: freebsd-advocacy@colossus.dyn.ml.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Public apology for my recent posting References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Coleman on Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 10:50:07AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 10:50:07AM -0700, Chris Coleman wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Donald Burr wrote: > > > This is a public apology regarding my recent posting to these lists. > > Several people have made me aware that these people had spammed this > > message to all e-mail addresses @freebsd.org. I was not aware of this. > > Really? Your posting was the first I had seen of Coyotepoint. And I am > subscribed to several lists, Maybe I just missed it. > > Maybe I am missing your point, but are we boycotting them because they > spammed the lists? Doesn't seem right if that is the case. Please > elaborate a little, cause I want to put this in the next issue of the RQN. They spammed all the accounts on freebsd.org. Not the mailing lists, just the personal accounts. I originally thought I'd gotten it because they used some of my code... Anyway, I don't think we should boycott them, but should just politely inform them that this is not acceptable. I (trusting person as I am) don't think they meant harm with it - they asked for feedback on their announcement, attempting to reach the group that would be likely to have license disagreements etc (given that their high-end product is based on FreeBSD). None of us would have reacted negatively if they had sent the message to committers@freebsd.org (which would reach most of the same people) with the same 'does this announcement look OK to you' question - I don't think we should react too harshly that they made the possibly honest mistake of sending it to each address instead. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 02:06:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (dynamic28.pm05.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00620 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:06:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA10404; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:21:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980707232126.A10356@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:21:26 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-sf@arachna.com Cc: ian@gamespot.com, nicole@mediacity.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Head count of July BAFUG Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up ! I need a quick head count of those who are planing on attending tomorrow nights BAFUG meeting. This will give me an idea as to how much pizza to order. Reply to either this mailing list or my home address which is: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue... Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 02:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03599 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03511 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-174.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.112]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id XAA09757 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:56:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA19922; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:56:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980707235627.A19900@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:56:27 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cyberwar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/tech1.htm for an interesting take on how wars will be fought in the future. Frank -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 02:16:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03628 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03542 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (xeros-1-132.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.91.134]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id WAA01962 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:11:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA00298; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:11:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980707221114.A28170@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:11:14 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cyber War Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/tech1.htm for an interesting takeon how war will be fought in the future. Frank -- ----------------------------- "At no time is freedom of speech more precious then when a man hits his thumb with a hammer." -- Marshall Lumsden To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 02:17:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04010 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03807 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA00723; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:00:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807080200.UAA00723@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: connecting NT and FBSD via tcp/ip over ethernet From: Wes Peters To: eivind@yes.no Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <19980706151310.27504@follo.net> References: <19980706151310.27504@follo.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA03832 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) saying: % On Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 01:20:28AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: % > And NT 4.0 nearly always gets the netmask WRONG in the control panel. % > If you enter a class C address, it chooses the class B netmask of % > 255.255.0.0. Doh! % % "But, that netmask worked during testing. How can this be wrong?" % (Microslop has a class B, IIRC). Nobody ever accused Microsloth of knowing what the **** they're doing. At least nobody with < .49999999 clue did. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 03:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23940 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sun-test.hightek.com (sun-test.hightek.com [194.74.141.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23924 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm2.hightek.com) Received: from klemm2.hightek.com ([195.90.203.76]) by sun-test.hightek.com (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA21589 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:24:32 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm2.hightek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04180; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:24:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980708122432.10591@hightek.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:24:32 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: darwinawards.com ... humor ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.darwinawards.com/deutsch/ It's soo good ;-) -- B&K Gruppe - Wuppertal phone +49 202 7399 - 170 fax +49 202 7399 - 100 http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 03:59:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05934 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA05723 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ytofX-00066I-00; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:29:35 +0200 Message-ID: <19980708092935.A23442@cityip.co.za> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:29:35 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Boa http server Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've never seen mention of this before: http://www.boa.org/ A high security, high speed http server. Might be a useful tool in some circumstances. Claims to compile on FreeBSD. I'm about to try. Maybe it's old news... :-) -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 04:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02182 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA02177 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:05:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 18201 invoked by uid 1017); 8 Jul 1998 06:02:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:02:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What's the nastiest thing possible... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org to stress a system? Looking for a script that really abuses a system (especially I/O, memory, and ethernet) for use in burn-ins to identify possibly flakey hardware. I thought about building world ad nasuem from NFS exported source... Something that would have an easy diagnostic if it didn't work. Any ideas? Thanks, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 04:10:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA03621 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:10:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA03572 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:10:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ytpPV-0007EC-00; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:17:05 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA01295 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:16:30 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03468; Wed, 8 Jul 98 09:16:28 BST Message-Id: <35A32ACB.A540753E@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:16:11 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Windows 98 source code available now Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've just received a copy of the souce code for Windows 98(TM), here it is........ /* Microsoft(c) Project: Chicago(tm) Projected release-date: Summer 1994 */ #include "win31.h" #include "win95.h" #include "evenmore.h" #include "oldstuff.h" #include "billrulz.h" #define INSTALL HARD char make_prog_look_big[1600000]; void main() { while(!CRASHED) { display_copyright_message(); display_bill_rules_message(); do_nothing_loop(); if (first_time_installation) { make_50_megabyte_swapfile(); do_nothing_loop(); totally_screw_up_HPFS_file_system(); search_and_destroy_the_rest_of_OS/2(); hang_system(); } write_something(anything); display_copyright_message(); do_nothing_loop(); do_some_stuff(); if (still_not_crashed) { display_copyright_message(); do_nothing_loop(); basically_run_windows_3.1(); do_nothing_loop(); do_nothing_loop(); } } if (detect_cache()) disable_cache(); if (fast_cpu()) { set_wait_states(lots); set_mouse(speed, very_slow); set_mouse(action, jumpy); set_mouse(reaction, sometimes); } /* printf("Welcome to Windows 3.11"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows 95"); */ printf("Welcome to Windows 98"); if (system_ok()) crash(to_dos_prompt); else system_memory = open("a:\swp0001.swp", O_CREATE); while(something) { sleep(5); get_user_input(); sleep(5); act_on_user_input(); sleep(5); } create_general_protection_fault(); } -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 04:47:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12755 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:47:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from colossus.dyn.ml.org (dburr@pm6-44.sba1.avtel.net [207.71.222.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12749 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@colossus.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by colossus.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) id EAA20749; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980708092935.A23442@cityip.co.za> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 04:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Computer Help From: Donald Burr To: Johann Visagie Subject: RE: Boa http server Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My secret spy satellite informs me that on 08-Jul-98, Johann Visagie wrote: > > I've never seen mention of this before: > > http://www.boa.org/ > > A high security, high speed http server. Might be a useful tool in some > circumstances. Claims to compile on FreeBSD. I'm about to try. > > Maybe it's old news... :-) Yes it is. :) Boa has been added to the ports. You might want to try grabbing th elatest ports tree. --- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - Turning PCs into Workstations - http://www.freebsd.org/ (NOTE: POBoxes.com appears to be working again -- fire away!) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 04:55:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13947 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA13939 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 04:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ytskj-0006Ku-00; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:51:13 +0200 Message-ID: <19980708135113.B24316@cityip.co.za> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:51:13 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Donald Burr Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Boa http server Mail-Followup-To: Donald Burr , chat@freebsd.org References: <19980708092935.A23442@cityip.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Donald Burr on Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 04:46:08AM -0700 X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 08 Jul 1998 at 04:46 SAT, Donald Burr wrote: > > Yes it is. :) Boa has been added to the ports. You might want to try > grabbing th elatest ports tree. Oh, sorry. :) I checked the ports index on the Web site (just did again), and it's still not there. Unless I'm even more blind than usual... I'll grab the tree. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 13:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25775 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:43:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25472 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id WAA12195; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:41:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:41:10 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Windows 98 source code available now References: <35A32ACB.A540753E@uk.radan.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 08 Jul 1998 22:41:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of "Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:16:11 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > /* > Microsoft(c) > Project: Chicago(tm) > Projected release-date: Summer 1994 > */ > > #include "win31.h" > #include "win95.h" > #include "evenmore.h" > #include "oldstuff.h" > #include "billrulz.h" > #define INSTALL HARD > > char make_prog_look_big[1600000]; > > void main() ^^^^ Ick. Say no more. DES -- One two, one two, one two. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 16:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14391 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from titus.stade.co.uk (root@stade.demon.co.uk [158.152.29.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14386 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by titus.stade.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14420; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:03:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from aw1) Message-ID: <19980708220343.B12800@stade.co.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:03:43 +0100 From: Adrian Wontroba To: Atipa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's the nastiest thing possible... Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk Mail-Followup-To: Atipa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Atipa on Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 12:02:31AM -0600 Organization: Stade Computers Ltd, UK X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 12:02:31AM -0600, Atipa wrote: > to stress a system? Looking for a script that really abuses a system > (especially I/O, memory, and ethernet) for use in burn-ins to identify > possibly flakey hardware. There was some mention of a filesystem torture test (for softupdates) on the current mailing list a while back. Try searching the archives. -- Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 Mail info@accu.org for information about the Association of C and C++ Users or see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 16:23:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15095 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gregory.dyn.ml.org (dave@cgowave-22-127.cgocable.net [24.226.22.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15080 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:23:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org) From: dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by gregory.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA06833 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:27:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:27:40 -0400 (EDT) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: is sysadmin'ing a lucrative career? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, It sure is nice to have such a great brain-pool to tap into... I have a few questions about careers that maybe some of you professional folks can answer. I just graduated with my BS in computer information systems, and I am currently seeking employment. I am mainly looking at UNIX jobs like sysadmin or programming in a UNIX environment. So far my best offer seems to be a sys-admin/programmer position with a medium-size company who is transferring all of their web-based services from a provider to an in-house box. I find this opportunity appealing mainly because I like the company (important to me), and I feel like the experience will take me in the direction I want to go, i.e. UNIX, sysadmin, internet. The potential downfall as I see it is that I don't think I will necessarily get as much programming experience as I would like (although I could be wrong). I'm thinking that system administration skills are valuable, but I'm worried that they will only take me so far without serious programming (or maybe database) experience to go along with it. Any of you seasoned professional have any advice for me concerning what I should try to learn/accomplish over the next two years? Should I seek certifications (which ones)? Should I consider a job with more programming? What other skill sets should I try to acquire? (Please don't say Microsoft Backoffice ;) ). Any comments will be greatly appreciated, and please feel free to read between the lines and rant about any kind of tangential topic that comes to mind (future of computing, UNIX, internet, whatever), because I'm sure it will contiribute to my knowledge. Thanks, Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 18:38:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01318 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:38:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhub.ainet.com (mailhub.ainet.com [204.30.40.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01311 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from ainet.com (root@ainet.com [204.30.40.6]) by mailhub.ainet.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24835; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmscott@ainet.com) Received: from perl.ainet.com by ainet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27022; Wed, 8 Jul 98 18:38:57 PDT Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980708183817.008e0100@mail.ainet.com> X-Sender: jmscott@mail.ainet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 18:38:17 -0700 To: freebsd-sf@arachna.com, freebsd-sf@arachna.com From: "Joseph M. Scott" Subject: Re: Head count of July BAFUG Cc: ian@gamespot.com, nicole@mediacity.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980707232126.A10356@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Count me in for two. There really will be two of us coming, it's not that I eat a lot :-) Joseph Scott jmscott@ainet.com At 11:21 PM 7/7/98 -0700, Josef Grosch wrote: >Heads up ! > > >I need a quick head count of those who are planing on attending tomorrow >nights BAFUG meeting. This will give me an idea as to how much pizza to >order. Reply to either this mailing list or my home address which is: > > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com > >Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue... > > >Josef >-- >Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 >jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > >........... http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html ............... >--- to unsubscribe "unsubscribe freebsd-sf" to majordomo@arachna.com ---- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 8 21:56:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA25524 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:56:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25519 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:56:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-213.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.213]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA06938; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:56:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09032; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:56:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199807090456.XAA09032@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Atipa , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: What's the nastiest thing possible... In-reply-to: Message from Adrian Wontroba of "Wed, 08 Jul 1998 22:03:43 BST." <19980708220343.B12800@stade.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:56:02 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Adrian Wontroba writes: > On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 12:02:31AM -0600, Atipa wrote: > > to stress a system? Looking for a script that really abuses a system > > (especially I/O, memory, and ethernet) for use in burn-ins to identify > > possibly flakey hardware. > > There was some mention of a filesystem torture test (for softupdates) > on the current mailing list a while back. Try searching the archives. How about "make buildworld" with /usr/src on one filesystem and /usr/obj on another, where one filesystem is NFS? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 9 02:38:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21902 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:38:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de [194.233.237.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21897 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA20304; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:40:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980709114038.44966@bik-gmbh.de> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:40:38 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: is sysadmin'ing a lucrative career? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org on Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 06:27:40PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In , dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org wrote: > It sure is nice to have such a great brain-pool to tap into... > I have a few questions about careers that maybe some of you professional > folks can answer. I just graduated with my BS in computer information > systems, and I am currently seeking employment. I am mainly looking at > UNIX jobs like sysadmin or programming in a UNIX environment. So far my > best offer seems to be a sys-admin/programmer position with a medium-size > company who is transferring all of their web-based services from a > provider to an in-house box. I find this opportunity appealing mainly > because I like the company (important to me), and I feel like the > experience will take me in the direction I want to go, i.e. UNIX, > sysadmin, internet. The potential downfall as I see it is that I don't > think I will necessarily get as much programming experience as I would > like (although I could be wrong). > > I'm thinking that system administration skills are valuable, but I'm > worried that they will only take me so far without serious programming (or > maybe database) experience to go along with it. I think it might not the the worst solution to take the admin job and learn programming by contributing to free software projects. No, I don't just want someone to contribute to FreeBSD :-) As someone who got through it I tend to say it's not good to be a beginning programmer in a professional job in a small company or a bigger company with overloaded and/or similar uncapable colleques. Your code will be taken seriously, shipped to customers and you will have to live with your beginner's stuff for the next 10 years and maintain bug compatiblity. Sounds unbeleivable, but that's common in all but the most serious software companies. On the other hand, if you try to contribute junk to free software, people will point you to your errors. Its invaluable to have good programmers nitpicking on your source code. You just don't get this in most companies a less educated programmer can get a job in. And I think an admin job at a bigger ISP can be a good start for a lot of smaller but interesting programming projects. Most ISP need a lot of scripting for accounting, to automatically configure something and to monitor their systems. If you are serious about programming, just make sure you do the right thing, which is C (or Lisp :-). Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 9 03:23:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25817 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25812 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw110 [192.23.231.54]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA13542 ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:22:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw110.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA10386; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:22:32 +0200 To: Martin Cracauer Cc: dave@gregory.dyn.ml.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: is sysadmin'ing a lucrative career? References: <19980709114038.44966@bik-gmbh.de> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 09 Jul 1998 12:22:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: Martin Cracauer's message of Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:40:38 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Martin Cracauer writes: > If you are serious about programming, just make sure you do the right > thing, which is C (or Lisp :-). Rah rah rah! Way to go! ;) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 9 07:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17240 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from micro.internexus.net (internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17233 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:12:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from mother (ppp47.internexus.net [206.152.14.239]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02920 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:12:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199807091412.JAA02920@micro.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 10:10:56 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Freegate In-Reply-To: <199807061840.LAA27600@hub.freebsd.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanx to however mentioned Freegate here recently. We just had a meeting with them in NY yesterday. We will be carrying their products in a month or so. -cliff /__________________________________\ cliffsworld media "Our Guarantee is in our Disclaimer" http://www.cliffsworld.com/flash To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 9 10:47:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19679 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19664 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:47:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26069 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:24:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:24:42 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NYC FreeBSD Users Group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org a few people I have talked to in the NYC area have been discussing the creation of an NYC area FreeBSD users group here. I haven't planned the first meeting yet but I have about 5 people I *know* would be interested, and a few more who might. Anyone hear interested, would this be worth our time? What kinds of things would we plan? (speakers, etc?) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 9 19:29:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06083 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06078 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:29:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA16404; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:59:06 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980710115906.N16065@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:59:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: BIND goes commercial? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out http://www.sunworld.com/swol-07-1998/swol-07-bind.html?070898a Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 10 13:57:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14236 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14182 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id QAA22908 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:56:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SCO to start selling it's OS online. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,24060,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.j Anyone else read the story at www.news.com on SCO cutting costs by nuking its shrink wrapped copies of SCO and moving to an all on-line system? I wonder what that does to a commercial entity? I mean if MS started only selling copies of NT or 9x on-line downloadable over the net, what would happen to their dominating margin? It would probably be destroyed. Just curious if anyone else read the article and what they thought. I know it works well for us :-) Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 10 20:50:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20673 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@[206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20667 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28411; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:49:31 -0600 To: "Frank Pawlak" , Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <980706003906.ZM4836@darkstar.connect.com> References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 10 21:35:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24134 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bytor.rush.net (lynch@bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24125 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:35:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA07659; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:34:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Brett Glass cc: Frank Pawlak , Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) In-Reply-To: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I talked to a guy from Apple, and they use alot of BSD derived code in Mac OS X Server (Rhapsody 1.0) and they said they do not have to distribute code, just include UCB's copyright notice and make the code available on request.... now MS *might* do this if we asked (unlikely, but hey, worth a try) -Pat On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP > utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which > means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving > credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the > Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. > > Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? > > --Brett > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 10 21:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26467 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26459 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA24467; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:25:01 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980711142500.C23241@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:25:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Pat Lynch , Brett Glass Cc: Frank Pawlak , Wes Peters , jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) References: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Pat Lynch on Sat, Jul 11, 1998 at 12:34:56AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 11 July 1998 at 0:34:56 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: >> Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP >> utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which >> means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving >> credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the >> Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. >> >> Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? > > I talked to a guy from Apple, and they use alot of BSD derived code in Mac > OS X Server (Rhapsody 1.0) and they said they do not have to distribute > code, just include UCB's copyright notice That's correct. > and make the code available on request.... No, there's no obligation to make the code available on request. > now MS *might* do this if we asked (unlikely, but hey, worth a try) It would certainly be worth a try. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 12:08:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03701 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03693 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id VAA01060; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:07:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:07:16 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: "Frank Pawlak" , Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 11 Jul 1998 21:07:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:49:31 -0600" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP > utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which > means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving > credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the > Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. No, you've got it mixed up a bit. Microsoft ships the standard BSD ftp client with Windows 95 and NT (probably 98 too, I haven't checked). If you search the archives for the beginning of this thread, you'll find I posted an article with the SCCS ID extracted from the Windows 95 ftp client. However, this is *not* the FreeBSD ftp client. They're kinda cousins. Microsoft uses a plain vanilla 4.x BSD ftp ported to Windows 95, while FreeBSD has added fifteen tons of nifty features (command-line editing and file name completion come to mind). If you check the ftp(1) code (/usr/src/usr/bin/ftp/) you'll see it uses the old-style four-clause BSD copyright, which requires all advertising material for software derived from BSD-licensed code to include the mention "This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors." Obviously, they're not doing it. Equally obviously, nobody so far has had the balls to challenge this practice. DES (who whishes he had a Congressman to write to) -- One two, one two, one two. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 20:14:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17824 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:14:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17814 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-117.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.117]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id WAA20315; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:14:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA14756; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:14:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980712031453.ZM14755@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:14:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders)" (Jul 11, 2:25pm) References: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> <19980711142500.C23241@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Pat Lynch Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 11, 2:25pm, Greg Lehey wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mult > On Saturday, 11 July 1998 at 0:34:56 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > >> Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP > >> utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which > >> means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving > >> credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the > >> Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. > >> > >> Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? > > > > I talked to a guy from Apple, and they use alot of BSD derived code in Mac > > OS X Server (Rhapsody 1.0) and they said they do not have to distribute > > code, just include UCB's copyright notice > > That's correct. > > > and make the code available on request.... > > No, there's no obligation to make the code available on request. > > > now MS *might* do this if we asked (unlikely, but hey, worth a try) > > It would certainly be worth a try. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Greg Lehey God Greg, why would you ever want Micros*@#t code? I am sure on you worst days you write better code by accident than they do on purpose. ;-) Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 20:20:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18777 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18696 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA29941; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:49:13 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980712124913.R23241@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:49:13 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak , Brett Glass , Pat Lynch Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) References: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> <19980711142500.C23241@freebie.lemis.com> <980712031453.ZM14755@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <980712031453.ZM14755@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 03:14:53AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 12 July 1998 at 3:14:53 +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On Jul 11, 2:25pm, Greg Lehey wrote: >> Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mult >> On Saturday, 11 July 1998 at 0:34:56 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: >>> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: >>>> Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP >>>> utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which >>>> means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving >>>> credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the >>>> Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright >>>> lawsuit. >>>> >>>> Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? >>> >>> I talked to a guy from Apple, and they use alot of BSD derived code in Mac >>> OS X Server (Rhapsody 1.0) and they said they do not have to distribute >>> code, just include UCB's copyright notice >> >> That's correct. >> >>> and make the code available on request.... >> >> No, there's no obligation to make the code available on request. >> >>> now MS *might* do this if we asked (unlikely, but hey, worth a try) >> >> It would certainly be worth a try. > > God Greg, why would you ever want Micros*@#t code? I am sure on you worst days > you write better code by accident than they do on purpose. ;-) I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was suggesting that somebody (not me :-) should try to get Microslop to adhere to the license conditions and declare that their software includes Berkeley-derived programs. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 20:51:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24631 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24624 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-117.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.117]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id WAA01491; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:51:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA14951; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:51:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980712035135.ZM14948@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:51:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?_dag-erli=40ifi=2Euio=2Eno_=28Dag-Erling_Coida?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?n_Sm=F8rgrav_=29?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?________=22Re=3A_Microsoft's_breaches_of_contract_=28was?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3A_FBSD_license_and___multiple_copyright_holders=29=22_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=28Jul_11=2C__9=3A07pm=29?= References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Brett Glass , dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?D?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav_?=) Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: Greg Lehey , Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA24626 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 11, 9:07pm, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mul > Brett Glass writes: > > Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP > > utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which > > means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving > > credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the > > Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright lawsuit. > > No, you've got it mixed up a bit. > > Microsoft ships the standard BSD ftp client with Windows 95 and NT > (probably 98 too, I haven't checked). If you search the archives for > the beginning of this thread, you'll find I posted an article with the > SCCS ID extracted from the Windows 95 ftp client. > > However, this is *not* the FreeBSD ftp client. They're kinda cousins. > Microsoft uses a plain vanilla 4.x BSD ftp ported to Windows 95, while > FreeBSD has added fifteen tons of nifty features (command-line editing > and file name completion come to mind). > > If you check the ftp(1) code (/usr/src/usr/bin/ftp/) you'll see it > uses the old-style four-clause BSD copyright, which requires all > advertising material for software derived from BSD-licensed code to > include the mention "This product includes software developed by the > University of California, Berkeley and its contributors." > > Obviously, they're not doing it. Equally obviously, nobody so far has > had the balls to challenge this practice. > > DES (who whishes he had a Congressman to write to) > -- > One two, one two, one two. >-- End of excerpt from Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav Are you absolutely sure that your information is correct? Can you provide the goods to prove that this is true? I would love to get that in front of the Wisconsin Attorney General and my congressman. You may not have one to write to, but I would be more than happy to write mine as your proxy. ;-) I hate M$ so much that I would be very happy to pass this on, but I need to be sure that it is correct. Don't want to look like a horse's ass. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 21:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA26056 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25969 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:59:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-117.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.117]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id WAA01896; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:59:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA14962; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:59:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980712035953.ZM14961@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:59:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders)" (Jul 12, 12:49pm) References: <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> <19980711142500.C23241@freebie.lemis.com> <980712031453.ZM14755@darkstar.connect.com> <19980712124913.R23241@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Pat Lynch Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 12, 12:49pm, Greg Lehey wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mult > On Sunday, 12 July 1998 at 3:14:53 +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jul 11, 2:25pm, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mult > >> On Saturday, 11 July 1998 at 0:34:56 -0400, Pat Lynch wrote: > >>> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > >>>> Interestingly, the Microsoft Windows 95 implementations of a few TCP/IP > >>>> utilities are said to have Berkeley copyright notices in the code, which > >>>> means they're probably derived from FreeBSD utilities. Is Microsoft giving > >>>> credit to the developers? If it isn't, it may be violating the > >>>> Berkeley-style license and thus could be the target of a copyright > >>>> lawsuit. > >>>> > >>>> Hmmm. Now there's an idea. Anyone care to research this? > >>> > >>> I talked to a guy from Apple, and they use alot of BSD derived code in Mac > >>> OS X Server (Rhapsody 1.0) and they said they do not have to distribute > >>> code, just include UCB's copyright notice > >> > >> That's correct. > >> > >>> and make the code available on request.... > >> > >> No, there's no obligation to make the code available on request. > >> > >>> now MS *might* do this if we asked (unlikely, but hey, worth a try) > >> > >> It would certainly be worth a try. > > > > God Greg, why would you ever want Micros*@#t code? I am sure on you worst days > > you write better code by accident than they do on purpose. ;-) > > I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was suggesting that > somebody (not me :-) should try to get Microslop to adhere to the > license conditions and declare that their software includes > Berkeley-derived programs. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Greg Lehey I am pulling your leg as we Yanks say. I know your intent, just playing with your words. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 21:20:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28835 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28820 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:20:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA00690; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:49:17 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980712134913.A635@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:49:13 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Frank Pawlak , Brett Glass , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> <980712035135.ZM14948@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <980712035135.ZM14948@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 03:51:35AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 12 July 1998 at 3:51:35 +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On Jul 11, 9:07pm, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: >> If you check the ftp(1) code (/usr/src/usr/bin/ftp/) you'll see it >> uses the old-style four-clause BSD copyright, which requires all >> advertising material for software derived from BSD-licensed code to >> include the mention "This product includes software developed by the >> University of California, Berkeley and its contributors." >> >> Obviously, they're not doing it. Equally obviously, nobody so far has >> had the balls to challenge this practice. > > Are you absolutely sure that your information is correct? Can you provide the > goods to prove that this is true? I would love to get that in front of the > Wisconsin Attorney General and my congressman. You may not have one to write > to, but I would be more than happy to write mine as your proxy. ;-) I hate M$ > so much that I would be very happy to pass this on, but I need to be sure that > it is correct. Don't want to look like a horse's ass. Before you get carried away, consider two other cases in point: 1. During the UNIX wars, USL was found to have used BSD code without appropriate acknowledgement--exactly the same situation as we're talking about. The matter, along with the BSD camp's alleged abuse of AT&T source, was settled out of court. I still don't see the acknowledgements, for example on the Free UnixWare CD I got a while back. 2. Microsoft licensed Java from Sun and then broke the terms of the license. Despite its relevance to the Internet Exploder business, the courts apparently ignored the problem, though it could have been grounds for prohibiting the propagation of the product in that form. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 21:24:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA29434 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29423 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02319; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807120424.VAA02319@implode.root.com> To: "Frank Pawlak" cc: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Pat Lynch , Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:59:53 -0000." <980712035953.ZM14961@darkstar.connect.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:24:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was suggesting that >> somebody (not me :-) should try to get Microslop to adhere to the >> license conditions and declare that their software includes >> Berkeley-derived programs. Actually, I think I'd rather that they didn't declare that their software contains Berkeley code; it would only tarish our own reputation when people incorrectly think that BSD code is at fault in their flakey software. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 21:34:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00988 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00977 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-117.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.117]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id XAA24124; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:34:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA15056; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:35:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980712043503.ZM15055@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:35:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: David Greenman "Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders)" (Jul 11, 9:24pm) References: <199807120424.VAA02319@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: dg@root.com, "Frank Pawlak" Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Pat Lynch , Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 11, 9:24pm, David Greenman wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multi > >> I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was suggesting that > >> somebody (not me :-) should try to get Microslop to adhere to the > >> license conditions and declare that their software includes > >> Berkeley-derived programs. > > Actually, I think I'd rather that they didn't declare that their > software contains Berkeley code; it would only tarish our own reputation > when people incorrectly think that BSD code is at fault in their flakey > software. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project >-- End of excerpt from David Greenman Good point!! Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 22:00:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05155 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:00:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05148 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:00:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-117.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.117]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id AAA00936; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:00:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id AAA15085; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:00:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980712050049.ZM15082@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:00:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders)" (Jul 12, 1:49pm) References: <199807040703.BAA02533@softweyr.com> <19980704165817.D358@freebie.lemis.com> <980704165941.ZM2483@darkstar.connect.com> <19980705102445.L358@freebie.lemis.com> <199807110349.VAA28411@lariat.lariat.org> <980712035135.ZM14948@darkstar.connect.com> <19980712134913.A635@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Brett Glass , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?rgrav?= , Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA05151 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jul 12, 1:49pm, Greg Lehey wrote: > Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and mul > On Sunday, 12 July 1998 at 3:51:35 +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jul 11, 9:07pm, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > >> If you check the ftp(1) code (/usr/src/usr/bin/ftp/) you'll see it > >> uses the old-style four-clause BSD copyright, which requires all > >> advertising material for software derived from BSD-licensed code to > >> include the mention "This product includes software developed by the > >> University of California, Berkeley and its contributors." > >> > >> Obviously, they're not doing it. Equally obviously, nobody so far has > >> had the balls to challenge this practice. > > > > Are you absolutely sure that your information is correct? Can you provide the > > goods to prove that this is true? I would love to get that in front of the > > Wisconsin Attorney General and my congressman. You may not have one to write > > to, but I would be more than happy to write mine as your proxy. ;-) I hate M$ > > so much that I would be very happy to pass this on, but I need to be sure that > > it is correct. Don't want to look like a horse's ass. > > Before you get carried away, consider two other cases in point: Don't intend to get carried away with this. > > 1. During the UNIX wars, USL was found to have used BSD code without > appropriate acknowledgement--exactly the same situation as we're > talking about. The matter, along with the BSD camp's alleged > abuse of AT&T source, was settled out of court. I still don't see > the acknowledgements, for example on the Free UnixWare CD I got a > while back. I am under the impression that the terms of this settlement were never made public, is that true. > > 2. Microsoft licensed Java from Sun and then broke the terms of the > license. Despite its relevance to the Internet Exploder business, > the courts apparently ignored the problem, though it could have > been grounds for prohibiting the propagation of the product in > that form. The Sun vs. Microsoft case is due in court in September, so, I don't believe that the courts have taken any action on this issue. To the best of my knowledge the only case the courts have heard was to the DOJ case on the injunction against M$ regarding the bundling of IE with windows. This issues was up-held by a lower court and recently overturned by a higher court. I would agree that this should never have been overturned. IE at this point is clearly not a part of the OS. From what I've read the DOJ had some pretty bad experts testifying on this. In my mind the real issue is M$'s mis-use of their monoply power in system software and apps. The question is how far the DOJ will press that issue. There is a lot of FUD going around regarding the future of the US software industry if M$ gets spanked. IMHO, if they are left with business as usual, the only future is Redmond, and who needs that crap. Frank > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Greg Lehey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 11 22:17:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08038 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08033 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03214; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807120517.WAA03214@implode.root.com> To: "Frank Pawlak" cc: Brett Glass , Greg Lehey , Pat Lynch , Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jasone@canonware.com, smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multiple copyright holders) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:35:02 -0000." <980712043503.ZM15055@darkstar.connect.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:17:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Jul 11, 9:24pm, David Greenman wrote: >> Subject: Re: Microsoft's breaches of contract (was: FBSD license and multi >> >> I think we're misunderstanding each other. I was suggesting that >> >> somebody (not me :-) should try to get Microslop to adhere to the >> >> license conditions and declare that their software includes >> >> Berkeley-derived programs. >> >> Actually, I think I'd rather that they didn't declare that their >> software contains Berkeley code; it would only tarish our own reputation ^^^^^^ Oops, my keyboard strikes again (or not). "...tarnish..." -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message