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Date:      Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:31:54 -0400
From:      Aryeh Friedman <>
To:        Chris Knipe <>
Cc:        "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <>, Polytropon <>,  FreeBSD - <>
Subject:   Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

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On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:22 AM Chris Knipe <> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:06 PM Aryeh Friedman <>
> wrote:
>> Simple - don't email it. If you do, attach it as an attachment (MIME is
>>> there for a reason)...
>>> There's GIT / CVS / Take your pick for a reason... :-)
>> If you don't like email then you should not be using FreeBSD because for
>> better or worse the community has standardized on email as the primary tech
>> support venue and thus absolutely needs to have something that can be used
>> to give tech support (including 100% accurate cut and pasting).
> And again - there's absolutely -nothing- wrong with that at all, I never
> said that there was... Millions of companies provide support to millions of
> users every day using email... That being said, I get a 80 character plain
> text email from a company as "support," I deem that as unprofessional, and
> the email will more than likely just be deleted.  We live in modern times,
> unfortunately.  Presentation matters, whether you like it or not.
> Cut & paste from the attachment, then you won't have any formatting issues
> from any MUAs, but I guess it's too much effort to open the attachment.
> There's plenty of solutions (UUEncode/BASE64, as you so nicely put it, has
> also been trialed and tested over many, many years, just FYI - it also has
> the benefit of < 80 characters wide), 80x25 is not one of them, and whether
> you like it or not, you will -never- get the world to adhere to a 80 (or 74
> or whatever) character wide email. The world has moved on, deal with it.

Extra and unneeded steps for a properly behaving MUA and but from your
point of view this is the very behavior that is *BAD*.

> The fact is, you should be committing your code to a repository, and
> checking said code out of said repository when you need it. In an open
> source environment, said code is also publicly viewable using any half
> decent web browser (I guess GITHUB is also doing it wrong?)  No, code
> should not be shared via email - and if you do then so be it - your choice,
> not a requirement. You don't need to email the code, all you can do is
> email a URL to your commit / diff... Again, too much effort to open a URL
> right?  I forgot that in the old days without GUIs, we couldn't even double
> click.  I guess you still can't today.

You missed the point completely then.   People don't share
production/committed code via email they share snippets when asking for
debugging help and those are the ones that need to be 100% accurate cut and
pasted because some applications/languages care a great deal about
whitespace (like python).

> Again, it's the minority that is sharing code via email... In fact, I
> would say very, very, very little people do it.

If that is what you think you sure have not been on this list (or any other
FreeBSD mailing list) for any significant amount of time (people do it
everyday here).

Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer,

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