Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:17:07 -0700 From: Robert Clark <res03db2@gte.net> To: Salvo Bartolotta <bartequi@neomedia.it> Cc: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fundamentalism (was Re: helping victims of terror) Message-ID: <20010930131707.A1004@darkstar.gte.net> In-Reply-To: <1001617805.3bb3798d9bd0f@webmail.neomedia.it>; from bartequi@neomedia.it on Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 09:10:05PM %2B0200 References: <1001447850.3bb0e1aa11dfc@webmail.neomedia.it> <20010925222900.A71817@lpt.ens.fr> <1001463692.3bb11f8ccca43@webmail.neomedia.it> <20010926104925.A318@lpt.ens.fr> <1001617805.3bb3798d9bd0f@webmail.neomedia.it>
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If religion stops being the motivation for war, what takes its place? Nationalism? Technology? Fashion? Sport? Brand name Loyalty? How much of an excuse do humans need for war? [RC] On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 09:10:05PM +0200, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: > Scrive Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in>: > > > And, where India (perhaps Pakistan too) is concerned, *this* is the > > problem. The Muslim masses look to their mullahs for inspiration and > > not to their scientists, artists, writers or even the forward-looking > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > This is one of the most dangerous effect of ignorance, ignorance associated > with the inability to think for oneself. It's worse than cancer. :-) > > Those who distort, inter alia, religion essentially wish to take away your > freedom [of thought]. Those "people" would use any pretext for their > purposes, and distorted religion happens to be one of the most poweful means. > > > > > > politicians, while these latter don't make an effort to reach to the > > masses (well, maybe some of the politicians do, but they're not very > > successful). > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > I believe that 1) the distortion of Islam/any religion has nothing > > > to do with Islam and with religion at large; 2) these ideas can only > > > be accepted by **ignorant** and [more or less large] [more or less] > > > poor masses; 3) most of these religious/political leaders, for a > > > variety of reasons, wish to keep these populations as ignorant [and > > > poor] as they can. > > > > Partially right on 1: I think every religious text has things in it > > which seem barbaric from our present-day point of view, and while we > > can justify moderate behaviour by quoting the Koran, these people can > > equally well justify their extremism from the same source. I won't > > argue with them there, since their knowledge of the Koran is obviously > > vastly greater than mine. Quite right on 2 and 3. > > > > > Yes and no. > > A few days ago, a moderate Egyptian mullah stated that, in the Koran, there's > no mention of "holy war". The fact is, the people good at misrepresenting > religion are very good at creating packs of lies. If religions didn't exist, > they would simply create other lies. > > > Also, I was thinking of Christian religion(s). The figure of Christ as a > thinker is strikingly universal. However, in the past few centuries, this > hasn't prevented many people from perverting his thought and, in particular, > from: > > 1) organizing crusades (the speeches of certain popes on the subject > are very illuminating, as well as the real motives of the ahem "crusaders"); > > 2) burning, among others, Bruno at the stake; condemning and humiliating one > of the greatest *Catholic* scientists of all times (viz Galileo); > > 3) making wars of "religion" -- religion being a mere pretext. > > <other [medieval] filth snipped> > > > > > > I once read (fortune cookie?) that government lies, and newspapers lie, but in > a democracy they are different lies. :-) I consider myself lucky to live in > the West. Nowadays, to be able, ie to have the opportunity to think for > oneself is real luxury. > > -- Salvo > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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