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Date:      Fri, 3 Oct 2014 17:29:30 +0200
From:      Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Chris H <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com>
Cc:        ports@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Removal of legacy X.Org (aka non-WITH_NEW_XORG)
Message-ID:  <20141003152930.GC53855@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
In-Reply-To: <af3d124817743a67c54e89d657a56b06.authenticated@ultimatedns.net>
References:  <20141003083051.GA52332@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <af3d124817743a67c54e89d657a56b06.authenticated@ultimatedns.net>

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On Fri, Oct 03, 2014 at 07:47:23AM -0700, Chris H wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As you may know, the ports tree currently provides two versions of the
> > X.Org server and related pieces of software:
> >    1. xserver 1.7, Mesa 7.6 and libdrm 2.4.17
> >    2. xserver 1.12, Mesa 9.1 and libdrm 2.4.52
> >
> > We are about to remove the older set. The primary reason is the
> > maintenance cost. The Graphics team is small and it's a nightmare to
> > test changes. The consequence is infrequent updates to those packages
> > and, of course, way more work each time we decide to jump to a later
> > version. All this time spent on keeping the legacy stack in a working
> > state isn't invested on improving the current one and today's hardware
> > support.
> >
> > The recent update to Cairo is a good example of this unsustainable
> > situation: we tested what we could with the time we had and we sent a
> > "Call for testers" on freebsd-x11@ and freebsd-current@ mailing-lists as
> > well as asking for help on several Quarterly Status Reports. The benefit
> > (if not the requirement) of the update and the lack of failure reports
> > were instrumental in the final decision. Unfortunately, many users of
> > the old X.Org server on Intel GPUs are now having crashes with any Gtk+
> > applications or the X.Org server itself. This time, we won't revert
> > anything or spend more time on trying to fix the old stack.
> >
> > Now, what does it change for the community? What are the benefits of
> > this solution?
> >
> >     1. No more headache with WITH_NEW_XORG, alternate pkg(8) repository,
> >        mismatching ABI versions between xf86-input-* and xserver.
> >     2. More frequent and independant updates (ie. no need to update the
> >        whole stack in one pass).
> >     3. KDE and, in the near future, GNOME 3 available as packages in the
> >        main repository and on install medias.
> >
> > Great, but what does it break?
> >
> > The only regression is for users of Intel GPUs and FreeBSD 8.x and
> > 9.0. Those versions of FreeBSD lack the required kernel driver and
> > therefore xf86-video-intel won't work (the last UMS-aware version
> > doesn't work with xserver 1.12). Users can still use xf86-video-vesa if
> > they can't/don't want to update their FreeBSD workstation. To install
> > xf86-video-vesa, run:
> >     pkg install xf86-video-vesa
> > or
> >     portmaster x11-drivers/xf86-video-vesa
> >
> > There won't be any regression for owners of Radeon GPUs because
> > xf86-video-ati 6.14.6 (the last one with UMS support, which fortunately
> > works with xserver 1.12) is provided as a separate port. To install this
> > UMS driver:
> >     pkg install xf86-video-ati-ums
> > or
> >     portmaster x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati-ums
> >
> > In the longer term, we suggest you update to FreeBSD 10.x (10.1-RELEASE
> > is around the corner). For example, you can find instructions to update
> > to 10.0-RELEASE here:
> >     https://www.freebsd.org/releases/10.0R/installation.html
> >
> > Note that there's a know regression with syscons and kernel video
> > drivers: you can't switch back to a console once an X.Org session is
> > started. A new console driver called vt(4) fixes this issue while
> > bringing nice features. It's available in FreeBSD 9.3-RELEASE and
> > 10.1-RELEASE but isn't enabled by default. To enable it, put the
> > following line in your /boot/loader.conf:
> >     kern.vty=3Dvt
> Ugh. We've just spent the last 4 mos. tooling up for a migration of all o=
ur
> server farms from RELENG_8 --> RELENG 9. It would have only taken 1 mos.
> but for pkg(8) debacle. Now, if I understand correctly. The current relea=
se
> schedule has effectively become:
>=20
> RELENG_8.4: June 30, 2015 =3D=3D=3D> October 8, 2014
>=20
> RELENG_9: December 31, 2016 =3D=3D=3D> October 8, 2014
>=20
> :(
>=20
> FWIW I'm looking forward to the NEW_XORG. But testing 11-CURRENT
> indicates vt(4) isn't ready for prime time. Which makes it difficult
> to justify it's requirement in RELENG.
>=20
> Sincerely,
>  disappointed.

No 8 is still supported and 9 as well, what you miss is that in any case the
graphic stack with old xorg on Intel it anyway broken right now, X server o=
r gtk
application segfaulting all the time.

meaning that xorg 1.12 and xorg 1.7 makes pretty much no differences on int=
el on
FreeBSD 8 and FreeBSD 9.

For all other drivers xorg 1.12 works pretty well on FreeBSD 8 and FreeBSD =
9 as
long as you do use the ums driver for ATI, nvidia work normally, vesa as we=
ll.
No changes here, with the previous, you do not need kms neither vt.

regards,
Bapt

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