From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 28 20:24:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935D71065673 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kc5vdj.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E05D8FC0C for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:24:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyb11 with SMTP id 11so4368582iyb.13 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yE5iZmuWtvqRlYgAZ1Q85bfGRNlXC/IefrczwRqLbN8=; b=WeWnR0OijmQKXFX44SkbmDjGrcKPKWPQCAHWiJwHzfOQY498+oQZ/NjCTAHB8sCB5T OuomClClAVHJJmbmmZxJc8EAwex9I91YHM1VWcp4qvQym3kAo5k6CjzvXM3g98nZtAh9 oAC8B0+fuC+fDSVkDqeQyZRcJGnyrfdMmzn7c= Received: by 10.231.167.83 with SMTP id p19mr335002iby.67.1311884687752; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from argus.electron-tube.net (desm-46-244.dsl.netins.net [167.142.46.244]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id er13sm850241ibb.2.2011.07.28.13.24.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E30E35F.9020308@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 23:19:43 -0500 From: Jim Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20110712151858.GA1091@faust> <4E1F554A.90405@gmail.com> <20110714205659.GB16595@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> In-Reply-To: <20110714205659.GB16595@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: recommendations for laptop and desktop X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:24:48 -0000 heh, the dv-series.... really nice exterior, but, inside, poor choices in cable routing, increased use of polymer ribbons prone to breakage and open circuit from even a single disassembly (lint/dust is the #1 laptop killer, they have to be cleaned out regularly, no less than twice a year in most environments), undocumented screws and chinese finger puzzles, undocumented cables, incorrect instructions, parts that don't exist, parts that exist but aren't documented, incorrect part numbers.... Interestingly, my primary laptops (two of them for me, and one for the lady) are Compaq C-300 series (upgraded to the 945GM motherboard and T7600 65nm Core2 Duo) are reliable to the extreme, well-documented (except for that one screw with the silk-screened arrow pointing at it in the upper left of the mobo), a complete airpath cleaning with practice can be done in about an hour with three screwdrivers, a muffin tin, pad and paper (which screws in which muffin hole), a toothbrush, unscented toilet paper (wipe the silicon to a mirror finish again), and arctic silver 5. The series is also labeled as the HP G-3000 series. The Compaq C-500 series is in the same chassis with only minor changes. The problem lies in that most of these were sold with the 940GML chipset (Celery only), but 945GM was an option and those mobos are about $100 USD +- $30 USD on eBay, mostly HannStar refurbs from China. These were introduced in 2007, and must be flashed to the most recent BIOS before putting in a Core2 Duo T7200 to T7600. My only complaint under BSD has been the Mini-PCI has bad ACPI, as the broadcom and intel driver both will panic the system at the worst, or at minimum refuse to load the driver with a "could not allocate resource". No biggie, it works under winblowz xp and 7. Under BSD, just use a USB wifi. Interestingly, under SuSE, the NDIS driver for the broadcom wifi does work. Conclusion: Get a Compaq C-300 or C-500 series system, preferably non-working (most likely a 940GML/Celery anyway), put in a good 945GM replacement board, and you will have a reliable, reasonably recent, low-cost laptop, just remember to clean it out when idle is in the mid to high 70's Celsius. The newer dv-series laptops are slick and all that on the outside, and very tempting when you play with it at the store, but they were made with the intent that people throw them away instead of having regular maintenance performed (cleaning), based on the number I have repaired, all needing new motherboards. Don't spend $800-1500 on a laptop that will fail in a year or two and be that hard to clean without having to buy replacement parts (ribbons, cable bundles, etc). STAY AWAY FROM HP dv-ANYTHING ESPECIALLY!!! THE AMD VERSIONS ARE EVEN MORE PRONE TO FAILURE!!! Chip Camden wrote: > Quoth Jim Bryant on Thursday, 14 July 2011: > >> stay away from newer hp laptops. >> >> been repairing laptops for money in recent years. HP laptops made after >> 2008 generally have serious issues with BGA lifting, and usually require >> motherboard replacement after 1-2 years. also their manuals have even >> more undocumented disassembly instructions, as well as incorrect >> disassembly instructions (use common sense and your eyes, following >> instructions will destroy hp laptops). >> >> > > Another data point: I bought an hp dv9000t in 2007, three years later the > motherboard died. I agree with avoiding HP. I like my ASUS K72F, except > that the Ironlake graphics aren't yet supported (soon, right Kostik?) > >