Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:52:54 -0700 From: xavian anderson macpherson <professional3d@home.com> To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG" <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, cwasser@v-wave.com Subject: RE: response from Chris Wasser cwasser@v-wave.com Message-ID: <39D91FD5.F97AC51A@home.com>
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--------------84514BEA60422255A722FCCD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 02:52:05PM -0700, xavian anderson macpherson wrote: > how do you consider me to have been yelling? I APOPLOGIZED. i am fully > aware of the kld for vinum. but you still have to define it. i just > want to know if this can be or is done during installation? It's quite apparent you haven't been online for any extended period of time. Phrases done in capitals are considered yelling which most people will interpret as an antagonistic approach and will treat you accordingly. The biggest part to using FreeBSD effectively is research. This isn't Microsoft Windows or Linux, here you have to work for results, not run some configuration wizard. There are mailing list archives online at www.freebsd.org which you can search for others who have run across your problem (and more then likely, answered) or you can take the time to read manpages. There are also quite a few FreeBSD support websites such as www.freebsdzine.org which has plenty of tutorials and I know for a fact it has one on vinum. If this sounds like too much work for you, perhaps you should go back to using Linux or some other operating system which caters to the lazy. i geuss the person who wrote this thinks that by not capitalizing, that his speach could not be offensive. language is not so much a thing of formality and ritual. to be effective, it must be a tool for the conveyance of concepts from one individual to another. if there is anything that i know, is that yes i can be lazy. does that mean that we should have never invented or implemented indoor plumbing? or what about electricity. where would you be without that. the whole purpose of having computers, is to enhance the productivity of the individual. however, i am not lazy when i comes to my selection of products. and whether you care to admit it or not, freebsd is a product. one which by the way i paid for. i brought it to enhance my productivity. not to ponder the meaning of life and the wonders of the universe (before i could use it); that is unless it helps me do that later by choice, not demand. the implementation of methodology is the responsibility of the developer, not the user. as a programmer, i know that my programs are of no use if they can't be easily understood. see below. Try helping yourself first before asking others for help, anything and everything you want to do in FreeBSD is documented somewhere, all you have to do is look. If necessary, go buy Greg's excellent The Complete FreeBSD which for the most part does all the hand-holding you'll need, and it's effective I know, I've given the book to my clients who lived in a double-click world and can now use FreeBSD well enough to get their jobs done which is a major accomplishment considering these are the kind of people who couldn't figure out drag and drop. i have the very book that refered to. and i have been reading it. and if there is anything that i enjoy doing, it is research. but i should not have to do research to use a can-opener. now granted, i have not tried starting my system yet with the freebsd installation disks. and my questions have nothing to do with laziness, but instead a desire for being fully prepared. now granted, i realize that many of you would not have responded to this (me) if i had not made the remarks that i made. but i made them, and apologized. so now i would rather get on with the process. however i realize some people would rather criticize than be helpful. it is matter of thinking they are better than someone else because they are more knowledgable. pompous! that very thinking is what's keeping us in the darkages (intellectually). did you ever hear of the edict `keep it simple stupid'? as i have pointed out to others, computing has become what it is today because of gui's. the whole premise to them is the practice of intuitiveness. it's kind of like the (exspensive) tests that the car companies did searching for a simple solution to getting children out of a car trunk once they locked themselves in. the answer was as simple as a door handle like the one that was inside of the car. they `stumbled' upon this after doing exstensive research on the viability of other seemingly ingenious techniques. none of which the children comprehended. they simply were not intuitive. it's not a matter of wanting someone else to think or work for me. i just want them to recognize that there are societal conventions which dictate how the greater public interacts with their environment; and those conventions should not be changed expressly for the sake of change, but rather simplicity. if the freebsd community wants to be nothing more than a collection of academics, then you should definately continue on the path of this person's isolation, invariably alienating all those who you claim are too ignorant to appreciate or understand the grandiosity of your intellectual endowments. frankly, i have always encouraged questions. it (they) are the foundation of progress. if however you believe you have achieved all and are all. then i geuss you have something i can only dream of; PERFECTION! all praise to you. may i one day live up to the high and lofty standard to which you have achieved. I tend to get a little irked when I see people who expect everything to be done for them who haven't even BOTHERED to research the problem (and you're certainly not the first one to do this) themselves before demanding support from other people who devote thousands of man-hours towards producing the excellent product that FreeBSD is, if you want end-user support, I'm sure Microsoft is more then willing to oblidge you. The information is all there, go do some digging. Anyways, just my two cents worth. Private replies >/dev/null 2>&1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message --------------84514BEA60422255A722FCCD Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <font face="Arial,Helvetica">On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 02:52:05PM -0700, xavian anderson macpherson wrote:</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> how do you consider me to have been yelling? I APOPLOGIZED. i am fully</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> aware of the kld for vinum. but you still have to define it. i just</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">> want to know if this can be or is done during installation?</font> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">It's quite apparent you haven't been online for any extended period of time. Phrases done in capitals are considered yelling</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">which most people will interpret as an antagonistic approach and will treat you accordingly.</font> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">The biggest part to using FreeBSD effectively is research. This isn't Microsoft Windows or Linux, here you have to work for results, not run some configuration wizard. There are mailing list archives online at www.freebsd.org which you can search for others who have run across your problem (and more then likely, answered) or you can take the time to read manpages. There are also quite a few FreeBSD support websites such as www.freebsdzine.org which has plenty of tutorials and I know for a fact it has one on vinum.</font> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">If this sounds like too much work for you, perhaps you should go back to using Linux or some other operating system which caters to the lazy.</font> <p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=+1>i geuss the person who wrote this thinks that by not capitalizing, that his speach could not be offensive. language is not so much a thing of formality and ritual. to be effective, it must be a tool for the conveyance of concepts from one individual to another. if there is anything that i know, is that yes i can be lazy. does that mean that we should have never invented or implemented indoor plumbing? or what about electricity. where would you be without that. the whole purpose of having computers, is to enhance the productivity of the individual. however, i am not lazy when i comes to my selection of products. and whether you care to admit it or not, freebsd is a product. one which by the way i paid for. i brought it to enhance my productivity. not to ponder the meaning of life and the wonders of the universe (before i could use it); that is unless it helps me do that later by choice, not demand. the implementation of methodology is the responsibility of the developer, not the user. as a programmer, i know that my programs are of no use if they can't be easily understood. see below.</font></font></b> <br> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Try helping yourself first before asking others for help, anything and everything you want to do in FreeBSD is documented</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">somewhere, all you have to do is look. If necessary, go buy Greg's excellent The Complete FreeBSD which for the most part does</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">all the hand-holding you'll need, and it's effective I know, I've given the book to my clients who lived in a double-click</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">world and can now use FreeBSD well enough to get their jobs done which is a major accomplishment considering these are the</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">kind of people who couldn't figure out drag and drop.</font> <p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=+1>i have the very book that refered to. and i have been reading it. and if there is anything that i enjoy doing, it is research. but i should not have to do research to use a can-opener. now granted, i have not tried starting my system yet with the freebsd installation disks. and my questions have nothing to do with laziness, but instead a desire for being fully prepared. now granted, i realize that many of you would not have responded to this (me) if i had not made the remarks that i made. but i made them, and apologized. so now i would rather get on with the process. however i realize some people would rather criticize than be helpful. it is matter of thinking they are better than someone else because they are more knowledgable. pompous! that very thinking is what's keeping us in the darkages (intellectually).</font></font></b> <p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=+1>did you ever hear of the edict `keep it simple stupid'? as i have pointed out to others, computing has become what it is today because of gui's. the whole premise to them is the practice of intuitiveness. it's kind of like the (exspensive) tests that the car companies did searching for a simple solution to getting children out of a car trunk once they locked themselves in. the answer was as simple as a door handle like the one that was inside of the car. they `stumbled' upon this after doing exstensive research on the viability of other seemingly ingenious techniques. none of which the children comprehended. they simply were not intuitive.</font></font></b> <p><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=+1>it's not a matter of wanting someone else to think or work for me. i just want them to recognize that there are societal conventions which dictate how the greater public interacts with their environment; and those conventions should not be changed expressly for the sake of change, but rather simplicity. if the freebsd community wants to be nothing more than a collection of academics, then you should definately continue on the path of this person's isolation, invariably alienating all those who you claim are too ignorant to appreciate or understand the grandiosity of your intellectual endowments. frankly, i have always encouraged questions. it (they) are the foundation of progress. if however you believe you have achieved all and are all. then i geuss you have something i can only dream of; PERFECTION! all praise to you. may i one day live up to the high and lofty standard to which you have achieved.</font></font></b> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">I tend to get a little irked when I see people who expect everything to be done for them who haven't even BOTHERED to research</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">the problem (and you're certainly not the first one to do this) themselves before demanding support from other people who</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">devote thousands of man-hours towards producing the excellent product that FreeBSD is, if you want end-user support, I'm sure</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Microsoft is more then willing to oblidge you. The information is all there, go do some digging.</font> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Anyways, just my two cents worth.</font> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">Private replies >/dev/null 2>&1</font> <br> <p><font face="Arial,Helvetica">To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org</font> <br><font face="Arial,Helvetica">with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message</font> <br> <br> </html> --------------84514BEA60422255A722FCCD-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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