Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:28:26 -0300 From: Gonzalo Nemmi <gnemmi@gmail.com> To: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org> Cc: Ed Schouten <ed@80386.nl>, current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tmux(1) in base Message-ID: <19e9a5dc0909211728m159c1b50id00dec2b3f8110b0@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4AB7ED76.5010406@FreeBSD.org> References: <20090921112657.GW95398@hoeg.nl> <4AB7ED76.5010406@FreeBSD.org>
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On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org> wrote: > I hate to sound negative, but I really don't find arguments of the > sort, "the first thing I install on a new system is 'foo', so 'foo' > should be part of the base" compelling.[1] I, like a lot of other > FreeBSD users have never used screen or tmux, and probably never will. > For my money nohup works just fine for long-lived processes that need > a log. But even the "I don't use it so it shouldn't be there" argument > is not particularly persuasive. > > We need to take a hard look at what kind of system we want to have. > It's a lot easier to keep userland utilities like tmux up to date from > the ports tree than it is in the base. That alone should be the > deciding factor, but if you want to hear a chorus of the "bloat" > argument then fill it in here. > > Rather than going down the road of putting everything that some subset > of our developer base thinks makes a system "usable" into the base I > would like to suggest that the effort be spent on improving the > installation tools such that making a system "usable" out of the box > is a matter of ticking off a few boxes at install time. That change > will benefit a whole lot more users than installing one more userland > tool into the base. > > Doug > +10 ... bge won't resresume from suspend, a simple kldload atapicam causes a fatal trap12 and ACPI support is just a matter of luck ... and we are at -RC1 ... > [1] If we're going to go that route then I'm installing bash. > I'd get rid of Sendmail and replace it with something more sensible like DMA (DragonFly Mail Agent) ... Even the Fedora guys are thinking about it ... regards Gonzalo Nemmi
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