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Date:      Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:25:25 -0600 (MDT)
From:      Dale Scott <dalescott@shaw.ca>
To:        Walter <fbsd@saveouraquifer.org>
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: minder
Message-ID:  <20141016022524.6484117.6250.3635@shaw.ca>
In-Reply-To: <57856.76.192.184.214.1413423271.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>
References:  <543ED1D6.3000500@saveouraquifer.org> <543ED8C1.9090508@gmail.com> <543EF466.3070908@saveouraquifer.org> <543F0C42.1060401@gmail.com> <543F12EF.8020207@saveouraquifer.org> <57856.76.192.184.214.1413423271.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>

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=A0 Original Message =A0
From: Valeri Galtsev
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:34 PM
To: Walter
Reply To: galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: minder


On Wed, October 15, 2014 7:35 pm, Walter wrote:
> On 10/15/14, 8:07 PM, Rolf Nielsen wrote:
>> On 2014-10-16 00:25, Walter wrote:
>> > On 10/15/14, 4:27 PM, Rolf Nielsen wrote:
>> >> On 2014-10-15 21:58, Walter wrote:
>> >>> but it's hard to know how useful these are without trying them
>> >>> all, and I'm hoping people here can guide me. Ultimately, I'm
>> >>> interested in secure, encrypted p2p operations starting with
>> >>> basic messaging, which will run on Windows-something, Mac, and
>> >>> Linux (BSD) OS's.
>> >>
>> >> And just as pear is a flavour of apple, BSD is really a flavour
>> >> of Linux... Right?
>> > I may run BSD on some servers, but most people run Linux with a
>> > desktop. And if it runs on Linux, it will likely run under BSD.
>>
>> > Or am I wrong on that? Or that most people use Linux over BSD?
>>
>> > Walter
>>
>> That wasn't my point. My point was that the form "Linux (BSD)" is
>> dangerously close to calling BSD a Linux distro, which it isn't.
> I'll try to be clearer then: I know the BSD's are not Linux distributions=
.
> I know FreeBSD is it's own OS. But I also know FreeBSD has a Linux
> compatibility layer, where it can run Linux programs. Maybe not all
> of them, but at least some.
>
> Desktop Operating System Market Share:
> http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=3D=
10&qpcustomd=3D0
> Windows 7
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+7&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 52.71%
> Market Share of Windows XP
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+XP&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> XP
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+XP&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 23.87%
> Market Share of Windows 8.1
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+8.1&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> 8.1
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+8.1&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 6.67%
> Market Share of Windows 8
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+8&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> 8
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+8&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 5.59%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.9
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.9&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.9
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.9&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 4.05%
> Market Share of Windows Vista
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+Vista&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> Vista
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+Vista&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 3.07%
> Market Share of Linux
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Linux&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Linux
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Linux&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 1.64%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.6
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.6&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.6
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.6&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.74%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.8
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.8&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.8
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.8&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.60%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.7
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.7&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.7
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.7&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.57%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.1
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.1&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.1
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.1&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.25%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.5
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.5&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.5
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.5&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.14%
> Market Share of Windows NT
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+NT&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> NT
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+NT&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.05%
> Market Share of Mac OS X 10.4
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.4&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X 10.4
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+10.4&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.04%
> Market Share of Windows 2000
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+2000&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> 2000
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+2000&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.02%
> Market Share of Mac OS X (no version reported)
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+%28no+version+reported%29&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Mac
> OS X (no version reported)
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Mac+OS+X+%28no+version+reported%29&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.01%
> Market Share of Win64
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Win64&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Win64
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Win64&qpcustomb=3D0>
> 0.00%
> Market Share of Windows 98
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+98&qpcustomb=3D0>
> Windows
> 98
> <http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=3D11&qpaf=3D&qpcustom=3D=
Windows+98&qpcustomb=3D0>
>
>
>
> Linux has 1.64% market share, but no flavor of BSD makes the list.
> I don't think saying Linux is more popular should be a major point of
> contention.
>
> So, my thinking is that if a family of an application runs on Windows,
> Mac, and Linux, it would be popular enough not to die out, and
> likely to get all the bugs ironed out. AND, if it runs on Linux, FreeBSD
> will likely run it too; that's what I meant by my poorly written words
> "Linux (BSD)."
>
> So, can someone help me with a URL to find Minder documentation, and
> can I elicit experiences with BitMessage, RetroShare, OpenDC, and the
> like.
> I'll be starting with FreeBSD and Mac but intend to add Windows and would
> like to include Linux also. Thanks.
>

You would need to exclude desktop users and look at servers specifically to=
 draw any meaningful conclusions as consumer devices (e.g. commodity comput=
ers and phones) will skew the numbers and make the relative percentages mea=
ningless. I purport there is *no* significant use of FreeBSD by desktop use=
rs, OS X is almost exclusively on desktops, and although there are a lot of=
 Windows servers, the majority of licenses are on desktop computers.

Compounding the difficulty to make valid comparisons is determining the tot=
al number of FreeBSD (and Linux) installs when these OS's are freely downlo=
aded with no record of use (and how many systems the OS was installed on), =
and with a large number of systems behind firewalls and/or not serving web =
pages to the public (a significant source of this type of metrics, in the a=
bsence of anything better, is to hit all the publically accessible web serv=
ers and analyze their responses to *infer* the OS).

Compare this to a Microsoft OS, where MS can report actual licenses issued,=
 but also inadvertently (or on purpose) skew the total by including license=
s purchased by OEMS (HP, Lenovo, Dell, etc.), and not necessarily the numbe=
r in the hands of end users.=20

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.....

Dale
----
www.dalescott.net
Transparency with Trust





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