From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 01:43:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DBE5154D39A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:43:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from redlamb19@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it1-x12f.google.com (mail-it1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24C2A720E2 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:43:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from redlamb19@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id h9so11619255itl.1 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:43:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wcdAvMf+B8O4ZyzksBVIO5YNukfAF+BBK0hR4RKD6aI=; b=EoatzwyUWIqESjXvsVlsZcCBEe1iTyzwCzooktu+NTSwH+0YPw2L3L6xveNBk5DVp+ jFdsPIXS2WO1Bc2OqpD3YVQ8+jgdrVSQYQhPG0mbu0nELst20tMgfmF+h5bcfvHUdl0H QavamEe/fCawVhocHt45QFwJIw5MKrWLvBG+eDtT3Pqiuu1HhmqCwE+Yz/Okdv9UC9QP Eq2sFzJVU+wkBDIu1JtcrWym8hD0eM0BsgGbgMmVjtBllyQ0H0X17a7bvEuLPY1UHe4R lhkhEFo1hQXhAYrhDtZQEZFLn7ftGs1LjsZqcRq83aowoAroZMz+3ienFKk98HYk55Ql YKbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wcdAvMf+B8O4ZyzksBVIO5YNukfAF+BBK0hR4RKD6aI=; b=WaYKvqRwS2c/CkyjKLxcOZIgSR++Qmt5bzYZgBk1BDgP5dT0Go/tbFE5JBovSlQAQ2 GwdvfkE42Ay+QUrbaNGdN8uxydrenYPY7t1qJGVbL5YrWZeO+CMbfvQXoi3E7V0Mecaq WGY/fT9wLJvtP001F6mS/04tdcgqCqrblbzJ3HLmG1pTYbyX+glee6ZLWino1PHCTerd p+R2w8IhiHS2WtEQ2QVODdR4K+BLXpHXkgJ8PPDwh6m5R440l1IcbVwXkKcBff0BiB16 tIVOfYkjd7ajpYwz4Lir96biveZ0ub1D4qBVsPybgyDDAunaZ8LDCCf5kTkU2bLR5NuX aztg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXXnCzjsHT/jWsahAuHePBVZy4UVR/FY+t6Y5NLhnkwPdyeMsEG /LCJ24zYE2xuSU6PjfpFX/qEcFq7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzTb5EauF94RNIo7w2GvXP3PnfYZWSdyKMhFV88D93ClWvcFfOO8/RsZADM1qAaj2zHbj9Swg== X-Received: by 2002:a24:1a91:: with SMTP id 139mr9257509iti.91.1553478185102; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Shrapnel.mn.redlamb.net (50-244-208-113-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.244.208.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y101sm5067447ita.25.2019.03.24.18.43.04 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:43:04 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Peter Erickson Subject: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) Message-ID: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:42:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 24C2A720E2 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=EoatzwyU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of redlamb19@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=redlamb19@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.955,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.82)[ip: (-9.03), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.85), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:43:07 -0000 I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt to mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" error, without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. Any advice or direction would be much appreciated. # gpart show ada1 => 34 16777149 ada1 GPT (8.0G) 34 30 - free - (15K) 64 8128 1 efi (4.0M) 8192 32 - free - (16K) 8224 511968 5 ms-basic-data (250M) 520192 32 - free - (16K) 520224 511968 6 ms-basic-data (250M) 1032192 32 - free - (16K) 1032224 225248 7 vmware-vmkdiag (110M) 1257472 32 - free - (16K) 1257504 585696 8 ms-basic-data (286M) 1843200 8386560 2 ms-basic-data (4.0G) 10229760 6547423 3 vmware-vmfs (3.1G) # ls /dev/ada1* /dev/ada1 /dev/ada1p2 /dev/ada1p5 /dev/ada1p7 /dev/ada1p1 /dev/ada1p3 /dev/ada1p6 /dev/ada1p8 # file -s /dev/ada1p5 /dev/ada1p5: DOS/MBR boot sector, code offset 0x3c+2, OEM-ID "MSDOS5.0", sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 2, root entries 512, Media descriptor 0xf8, sectors/FAT 250, sectors/track 32, heads 64, sectors 511968 (volumes > 32 MB), serial number 0x4e781016, label: " ", FAT (16 bit) # mount -t msdosfs /dev/ada1p5 /mnt mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument While this isn't the drive I initially had the problem with, I have been able to recreate it using VirtualBox. # dmesg | grep ada1 ada1 at ata0 bus 0 scbus0 target 1 lun 0 ada1: ATA-6 device ada1: Serial Number VB039c38ca-974cc97c ada1: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, PIO 65536bytes) ada1: 8192MB (16777216 512 byte sectors) FWIW, knoppix has no issues mounting the partition, but I'd really be interested in getting this to work on FreeBSD. knoppix # mount | grep /dev/sdb5 /dev/sdb5 on /mnt type vfat (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=850,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro) Based on the info from knoppix, I tried to mount the partition under FreeBSD using mount_msdosfs directly and specifying the locale (en_US.UTF-8) and codepage (CP850) , but the result was the same - "Invalid argument." Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 09:14:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B099155840C for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:14:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amit@phpandmore.net) Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6C9A8812D for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:14:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amit@phpandmore.net) Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id a188so8122046wmf.3 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:14:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=phpandmore-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PVtHcXCaW649vh5SHc0VV841JuQTocFkaqjFfEC7ftI=; b=RLlkuK+7QF1wISsSVgpsCtd5sQtWxofiLvn7jWqUS78/WWouTjvkw9wQSxwFGMUh3F mLg8Vc0Tyb4KXdgAjzAtsZ6z9uyWP6k4N+tQiumixz6JU/EgIwU4aiVbjMPbuJZvhwOK ypHDybxUgsKsSqIHnHqXp9Agq8OiwyQbZ3XZpu7YFpn4nE/kIyekr/OW8hhVR2dofA8E 0qHhiF4w/PNNHJCO+00sMnDTH4EcFb82blREjN23CnK8d6OQttR9UwvGR/3XELxkzplf X7EsAn9ZqJ1QAeAQTfagtmBkRaEAPrC1g59Z16RgZaLXqi2Uc7CuILj6ZodV7T6qufv0 8Anw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PVtHcXCaW649vh5SHc0VV841JuQTocFkaqjFfEC7ftI=; b=U724eKT85FmhNakop67ych3kZn5xNLwoV53QNzi63Y8b5YJzgIYr23Hp1HOyEXLh41 qmMMm8zgvmpZX7K2C7B5344Z8jX2nxgpwLn75lxroRi1Er4ELSe0SoFe+oQgi6AiKM1u jS4agVqo/SzUAIVyBF4+q6sDgXZYJCLqAz/1Ym+MwiOHn0kxg8wW3EYP5HjX+ClbI+BL 6msZ00skf/G5pidB09hLkNmWdIZs2bKlZ57kUE9q8hN+F8iu3N0Vbw9q3/ENZZVYYg3c qhYeNyjvVGWQ+SQF0MIqO7HVGzE/3FN0IlgR8qQsbl1d8LgOw5e9lK1re7cxmB+9Z/QY WRJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAURqKhqDq+Iz+5gTGfT9xV7g+5EQqhqMoV5WLDxEtwfnmmmb1zs iuolRrc6SbclRbmrllfJecuj0cQQStI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzX91BxobymrYjJDqT7B72huy6i2aS3EFlw2wDQhmG6RljgguuC17ibY7yiIEKhiropiOO7lw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7dd7:: with SMTP id y206mr4763531wmc.81.1553505274098; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.1] ([5.102.238.221]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v2sm13868475wme.29.2019.03.25.02.14.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> From: Amit Yaron Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:14:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A6C9A8812D X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=phpandmore-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=RLlkuK+7 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.02 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[phpandmore-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(-2.84)[ip: (-9.60), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.38), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[phpandmore-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ASPMX5.GOOGLEMAIL.COM,ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM,ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.COM,ASPMX4.GOOGLEMAIL.COM]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.876,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:14:37 -0000 Try mounting an MS-DOS file sytem as follows: mount -t msdosfs . On 25.3.2019 3:42, Peter Erickson wrote: > I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition > created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt to > mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" error, > without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. Any advice > or direction would be much appreciated. > > # gpart show ada1 > =>      34  16777149  ada1  GPT  (8.0G) >         34        30        - free -  (15K) >         64      8128     1  efi  (4.0M) >       8192        32        - free -  (16K) >       8224    511968     5  ms-basic-data  (250M) >     520192        32        - free -  (16K) >     520224    511968     6  ms-basic-data  (250M) >    1032192        32        - free -  (16K) >    1032224    225248     7  vmware-vmkdiag  (110M) >    1257472        32        - free -  (16K) >    1257504    585696     8  ms-basic-data  (286M) >    1843200   8386560     2  ms-basic-data  (4.0G) >   10229760   6547423     3  vmware-vmfs  (3.1G) > > # ls /dev/ada1* > /dev/ada1        /dev/ada1p2     /dev/ada1p5     /dev/ada1p7 > /dev/ada1p1      /dev/ada1p3     /dev/ada1p6     /dev/ada1p8 > > # file -s /dev/ada1p5 > /dev/ada1p5: DOS/MBR boot sector, code offset 0x3c+2, OEM-ID "MSDOS5.0", > sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 2, root entries 512, Media > descriptor 0xf8, sectors/FAT 250, sectors/track 32, heads 64, sectors > 511968 (volumes > 32 MB), serial number 0x4e781016, label: " ", FAT (16 > bit) > > # mount -t msdosfs /dev/ada1p5 /mnt > mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument > > While this isn't the drive I initially had the problem with, I have been > able to recreate it using VirtualBox. > > # dmesg | grep ada1 > ada1 at ata0 bus 0 scbus0 target 1 lun 0 > ada1: ATA-6 device > ada1: Serial Number VB039c38ca-974cc97c > ada1: 33.300MB/s transfers (UDMA2, PIO 65536bytes) > ada1: 8192MB (16777216 512 byte sectors) > > FWIW, knoppix has no issues mounting the partition, but I'd really be > interested in getting this to work on FreeBSD. > > knoppix # mount | grep /dev/sdb5 > /dev/sdb5 on /mnt type vfat > (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=850,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro) > > > Based on the info from knoppix, I tried to mount the partition under > FreeBSD using mount_msdosfs directly and specifying the locale > (en_US.UTF-8) and codepage (CP850) , but the result was the same - > "Invalid argument." > > Thanks in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 09:34:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4ED1558C65 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:34:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90B8A88C35 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:34:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MX0Xf-1hSUNO35Qn-00XNEP; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:34:35 +0100 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:34:35 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Peter Erickson Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) Message-Id: <20190325103435.39d39bd4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; 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RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.38)[0.383,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.990,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.996,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[75.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.35)[ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.11), asn: 8560(1.63), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:34:46 -0000 On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:42:30 -0500, Peter Erickson wrote: > # mount -t msdosfs /dev/ada1p5 /mnt > mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument I have no idea if this applies, but I can imagine that FAT and GPT don't work well together. GPT is "too new", and even on "Windows" where GPT can be used, NTFS is used instead of FAT16. A FAT filesystem is usually created on a DOS primary partition (a slice). A GPT partition is something else... Sidenote: For testing, always use -o ro or -r to make sure no writes are allowed (or tried). Sometimes this allows you to mount even damaged file systems. Try one of these: # mount -t msdosfs -r /dev/ada1p5 /mnt # mount_msdosfs -o ro /dev/ada1p5 /mnt The use of "mount -t msdosfs" and "mount_msdosfs" should be equivalent. See "man mount_msdosfs" for details. > FWIW, knoppix has no issues mounting the partition, but I'd really be > interested in getting this to work on FreeBSD. > > knoppix # mount | grep /dev/sdb5 > /dev/sdb5 on /mnt type vfat > (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=850,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro) > > Based on the info from knoppix, I tried to mount the partition under > FreeBSD using mount_msdosfs directly and specifying the locale > (en_US.UTF-8) and codepage (CP850) , but the result was the same - > "Invalid argument." Locale and codepage shouldn't have an effect on the basic mount operation. Both are fairly standard and should be covered by the defaults anyway. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 10:16:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CF5E155A451 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:16:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from smh-06.1blu.de (smh-06.1blu.de [178.254.0.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A61C8ABAD for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:16:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [172.16.29.5] (helo=sh4-5.1blu.de) by smh-06.1blu.de with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h8MeK-00039I-Ua; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:16:13 +0100 Received: from ftp51246-2575596 by sh4-5.1blu.de with local (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h8MeK-0003JI-SM; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:16:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:16:12 +0100 From: Matthias Apitz To: Andrea Venturoli Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resetting a serial port Message-ID: <20190325101612.GB2415@sh4-5.1blu.de> Reply-To: Matthias Apitz Mail-Followup-To: Andrea Venturoli , Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6623dd04-822d-dbdb-d2f5-3021debc1c2a@netfence.it> <20190319193907.b0f51931.freebsd@edvax.de> <360bcc93-b4fc-f9f5-4056-5c5b45b8fcbb@netfence.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <360bcc93-b4fc-f9f5-4056-5c5b45b8fcbb@netfence.it> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT r314251 (amd64) X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8A61C8ABAD X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[guru@unixarea.de]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.unixarea.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.783,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.42)[ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(-3.94), asn: 42730(-3.15), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:16:23 -0000 El día Wednesday, March 20, 2019 a las 08:04:55PM +0100, Andrea Venturoli escribió: > On 3/19/19 7:39 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > > # /usr/bin/true > /dev/lpt0 > > > >Maybe the corresponding serial device can be reset > >in the same way? > > In case it locks again (it did two times the last month, but it hadn't > happened for years), I'll try. > Thanks. Note: In the command shown above the '/usr/bin/true' does nothing with the TTY. It is the shell opening the device for writing. I in your case would write some C-pgm to uses the syscalls open(2) and ioctl(2) to get information about the device status. matthias -- Matthias Apitz, ✉ guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045 Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub October, 7 -- The GDR was different: Peace instead of Bundeswehr and wars, Druschba instead of Nazis, to live instead of to survive. 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[50.244.208.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 133sm4896542itl.13.2019.03.25.04.54.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 04:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <20190325103435.39d39bd4.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Peter Erickson Message-ID: <49bb381b-8e90-2cd4-6cdd-7bbb51b50516@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:54:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190325103435.39d39bd4.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D35BA8EF25 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=T0JE2L0Z; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of redlamb19@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::136 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=redlamb19@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.52 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.52)[ip: (-7.55), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.86), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:54:24 -0000 Thanks for the response. I thought the same thing so I tried testing it. It appears that mount/mount_msdosfs has no issues mounting a FAT16 filesystem on a GPT partition. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how good of a test it is since the only way I knew to create a FAT16 partition was to use FreeBSD. # dd if=/dev/zero of=msdos_test.dd bs=1M count=300 300+0 records in 300+0 records out 314572800 bytes transferred in 0.487578 secs (645173955 bytes/sec) # mdconfig -f msdos_test.dd md0 # gpart create -s GPT md0 md0 created # gpart add -t ms-basic-data md0 md0p1 added # newfs_msdos -F 16 /dev/md0p1 newfs_msdos: trim 7 sectors to adjust to a multiple of 9 /dev/md0p1: 614112 sectors in 19191 FAT16 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster) BytesPerSec=512 SecPerClust=32 ResSectors=1 FATs=2 RootDirEnts=512 Media=0xf0 FATsecs=75 SecPerTrack=9 Heads=128 HiddenSecs=0 HugeSectors=614313 # file -s /dev/md0p1 /dev/md0p1: DOS/MBR boot sector, code offset 0x3c+2, OEM-ID "BSD4.4 ", sectors/cluster 32, root entries 512, sectors/FAT 75, sectors/track 9, heads 128, sectors 614313 (volumes > 32 MB), serial number 0xe250e15, unlabeled, FAT (16 bit) # mount -t msdosfs /dev/md0p1 /mnt # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ada0s1a 28434140 6778000 19381412 26% / devfs 1 1 0 100% /dev /dev/md0p1 307088 32 307056 0% /mnt On 3/25/19 4:34 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 20:42:30 -0500, Peter Erickson wrote: >> # mount -t msdosfs /dev/ada1p5 /mnt >> mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument > > I have no idea if this applies, but I can imagine that FAT and GPT > don't work well together. GPT is "too new", and even on "Windows" > where GPT can be used, NTFS is used instead of FAT16. A FAT filesystem > is usually created on a DOS primary partition (a slice). A GPT > partition is something else... > > Sidenote: For testing, always use -o ro or -r to make sure no > writes are allowed (or tried). Sometimes this allows you to mount > even damaged file systems. Try one of these: > > # mount -t msdosfs -r /dev/ada1p5 /mnt > > # mount_msdosfs -o ro /dev/ada1p5 /mnt > > The use of "mount -t msdosfs" and "mount_msdosfs" should be equivalent. > See "man mount_msdosfs" for details. > > > >> FWIW, knoppix has no issues mounting the partition, but I'd really be >> interested in getting this to work on FreeBSD. >> >> knoppix # mount | grep /dev/sdb5 >> /dev/sdb5 on /mnt type vfat >> (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=850,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro) >> >> Based on the info from knoppix, I tried to mount the partition under >> FreeBSD using mount_msdosfs directly and specifying the locale >> (en_US.UTF-8) and codepage (CP850) , but the result was the same - >> "Invalid argument." > > Locale and codepage shouldn't have an effect on the basic mount > operation. Both are fairly standard and should be covered by the > defaults anyway. > > > > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 13:48:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B0E1562276 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:48:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carmel_ny@outlook.com) Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2nam02olkn0808.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe46::808]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E4B26CB53 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:48:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carmel_ny@outlook.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outlook.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; 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Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:48:38 +0000 From: Carmel NY To: FreeBSD Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) Thread-Topic: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) Thread-Index: AQHU4xFyDWP/mxtTHE6H2AIYkyULOA== Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:48:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <20190325103435.39d39bd4.freebsd@edvax.de> <49bb381b-8e90-2cd4-6cdd-7bbb51b50516@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49bb381b-8e90-2cd4-6cdd-7bbb51b50516@gmail.com> Reply-To: FreeBSD Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: BN6PR22CA0055.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:404:ca::17) To MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:72::8) x-mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:675BE4C0CFA42EF527197D3B0FF8A2B7C2D400A584A21EAEF4C0772D7E48A6EC; UpperCasedChecksum:F4E319EA3A22B2BC6D8FA9F6115630B9733D97664D6781CE3EB68C79A9DEFE3C; 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dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=LUgriTt4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=outlook.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carmel_ny@outlook.com designates 2a01:111:f400:fe46::808 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carmel_ny@outlook.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.05 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[outlook.com:s=selector1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[outlook.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f400::/48]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(-0.96)[ipnet: 2a01:111:f000::/36(-2.53), asn: 8075(-2.22), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[outlook.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[outlook.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.975,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:48:41 -0000 On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:54:20 -0500, Peter Erickson stated: >Thanks for the response. I thought the same thing so I tried testing >it. It appears that mount/mount_msdosfs has no issues mounting a FAT16=20 >filesystem on a GPT partition. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how good of >a test it is since the only way I knew to create a FAT16 partition was >to use FreeBSD. FAT/FAT16: Max volume size 4GB, Max file size 2GB. FAT32: Max volume size 2TB, Max file size 4GB. exFAT: Max volume size 128PB, Max file size 16EB. --=20 Carmel From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 14:21:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014BB15632BC for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:21:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB5B26E661 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x2PELSdc081489 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:21:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: redlamb19@gmail.com References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:21:28 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DB5B26E661 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.35 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.43)[0.430,0]; IP_SCORE(0.12)[ip: (0.41), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 30722(-0.05), country: IT(0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[netfence.it]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.76)[0.765,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.14)[0.141,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:21:48 -0000 On 3/25/19 2:42 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: > I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition > created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt to > mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" error, > without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. Any advice > or direction would be much appreciated. I've had this problem in the past and solved using "-o large". According to the man page this shouldn't be your case (and I don't remember how big a partition I was trying to mount), but, for the price, it's worth trying :) HTH. bye av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 16:25:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546211544CC7 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:25:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from redlamb19@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com (mail-io1-xd43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55FD173CE4 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from redlamb19@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd43.google.com with SMTP id d201so8145405iof.7 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ucmWlO6paLQv9ZFqTu38Q6w2Lnxds187QS9xXBOS044=; b=Mp2y4LKVyX4gGHP1sN7tRAw+RHXJCvb9GMwM86pVkxtbMxi4dnTt2HK80zG/o99wkJ I4S7OyS76CgmT5fzs2637eeUdaBGLgcjd7pRsEHB1kJhINXHoArRUtZYyh74j6wwUCr7 IC8S5vNJibCWOX8eA7da5U8rrK4aZC9U73LbZv8XvTejkyV1IK/6bnuRuKS3XS+jeAa/ /xfRi5o6jovbbWF8IROSx1qMkRj0fHk6nQNpQ5gRmKfbImQvaZMzxEIB08Pm69NOWPCN lrNrmgQ+8aHx+AxNhQ86fvFBa6TiXAfwvO9yT9DwzWeTBZjhog3yuA6ptOzH9s/hm2TV KLjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ucmWlO6paLQv9ZFqTu38Q6w2Lnxds187QS9xXBOS044=; b=Ce35+91UIRxsxnbf+NbxsgyL/DYBKQvgTlVfx4HWF2pHVZORjLL6+R5FoU6FNw4CJH d5P7Ore16pbUFozT+QUyNwOurzVrHRNsmAHGr/2Xc68n3eZ9uLlu/9Kg/s5SuSNqoRmr SrZvaLCJg9TSgrOjtH7KzVHqn3HzigWVwk12oPzccH2LdxKwYZBxZbAY6B0R6Clifo82 v12JwLfpDzxfu438zE1ipkqovmvS1O1OSz0BlrRP5gGwcnW8ZhepFdWjadEDJsBY7vnC yEKix7m1z4oFgEgxaOachGlrGvHXEJL7BH9KDV8SbL8a6tRhNM0MO9eW/aWQ07gIF8/8 55yA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXSBtVWkXVFqb6IVZiv+Mhq5m5iP14yXWVX9A1l/7q/TN1LBW9I JauqruvHHDbdJ1yBUy+FlPRlIRzeULI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx6771w4gN9nDsQN6+rcAAm+XGD4i5B71mqGBrQf/JkG8bZFIomSAUf1EHQGlNltGOzlg18cA== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7108:: with SMTP id q8mr14774524iog.85.1553531153273; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Shrapnel.local (173-165-231-73-minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.165.231.73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v10sm6722185iom.45.2019.03.25.09.25.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: Andrea Venturoli Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> From: Peter Erickson Message-ID: <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:25:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 55FD173CE4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Mp2y4LKV; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of redlamb19@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=redlamb19@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.55 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.55)[ip: (2.33), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.86), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:25:56 -0000 While the partition is only 250M, anything is worth a shot at this point. Unfortunately, that didn't work either - same result. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that's stumped. # mount -t msdosfs -o ro,large /dev/ada1p5 /mnt mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument On 3/25/19 9:21 AM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > On 3/25/19 2:42 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: >> I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition >> created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt to >> mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" error, >> without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. Any >> advice or direction would be much appreciated. > > I've had this problem in the past and solved using "-o large". > According to the man page this shouldn't be your case (and I don't > remember how big a partition I was trying to mount), but, for the price, > it's worth trying :) > > HTH. > >  bye >     av. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 16:47:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4308D154574A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:47:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jd1008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it1-x141.google.com (mail-it1-x141.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3113074E77 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:47:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jd1008@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it1-x141.google.com with SMTP id w18so14991298itj.4 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:47:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BWaSLS5qApW9XLZdjgoXKTFGg2dXM6YV7zetvs/hPrg=; b=ZYrixQSCrVKMTfaaJzP55VA84Ij5mtmxPWIvN3iqCrv7Xz8Bedo5tYHWcR1qzsPDB8 CxBHlv5tYomlpi+M8vZKqSDc+gK1JtgCk5Wcx4dN/Tiwkug5F13bzwKE/JM6t1XdbG58 FmyEbynxxVgqfdP37qavZQHYJ9DCfrT/cZfRshyKp0/+JGkXXlV5mJARjHf9vtpFossV l1Iowf1MAGUv2pf+0li+shfyvyGWUM7BYqOAFBj5UtzNMuSjNVUkMFL/2m7dsOAOKUiL w6wxDNAOWjozgv6qTd27Q+fOZ01eWorX+IR6f9q70/zFowI4oPQ4R60w0KtvR/ahljvY cpgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BWaSLS5qApW9XLZdjgoXKTFGg2dXM6YV7zetvs/hPrg=; b=juoRDZTrCucTR4Kq46U+DMoy95lmtRVf7hhZZ+W/zjrVrBZU1MaWMFZnMZTfxVxc5Q M6HDIrW+Y9rDDUGiSCzVQnO2Iz2oM3ZOrWzHMIJ/1qj/5xtZyHn7OwZQ6bBl7wI/1ORr 6/PjrsVul9ui5oVDUTPQOWuBzuEaw/rKEE4F/ZTOnOXofa4YlQhCNmincW4oY9VFnBJa 4wOZm+UwAf7ERfPVitcYIw5X2j5gfY9G8zFHJc2LZ9syqdYMzuwdXlBc/U4yXmrzHQFY QFxt3Y6uyfLWx3jSg0YRubNbWCYJjnDN+L0de76Qz6vAZ+747X4PZFEniE0V2wTQi5ms TFsw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWG57/ycDYkVHoYqxgEMN65dFaSkXdu3RCM3Xnn7n2JcyQApcec 8h4/m4bmzORnbpGezdz3uhkdG/Ue X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxipvs57W0ndtC/II0x39BzQzN/FL82MVGc8DLuM7PGcdn2eOrjwqJV1oYX1/qH897nf9/spA== X-Received: by 2002:a24:2808:: with SMTP id h8mr5499789ith.85.1553532458880; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (50-243-4-3-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.243.4.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a80sm6007881ita.0.2019.03.25.09.47.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5C990650.6030907@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:48:16 -0600 From: JD User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3113074E77 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ZYrixQSC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jd1008@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::141 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jd1008@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.56 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.923,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.63)[ip: (1.91), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.86), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:47:41 -0000 On 03/25/2019 10:25 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: > While the partition is only 250M, anything is worth a shot at this > point. Unfortunately, that didn't work either - same result. I'm glad > that I'm not the only one that's stumped. > > # mount -t msdosfs -o ro,large /dev/ada1p5 /mnt > mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument > > On 3/25/19 9:21 AM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: >> On 3/25/19 2:42 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: >>> I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition >>> created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt >>> to mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" >>> error, without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. >>> Any advice or direction would be much appreciated. >> >> I've had this problem in the past and solved using "-o large". >> According to the man page this shouldn't be your case (and I don't >> remember how big a partition I was trying to mount), but, for the >> price, it's worth trying :) >> >> HTH. >> >> bye Assuming the device you entered (ada1p5) is the device in question, have you tried the option -o fat instead of msdosfs ? Also, again assuming the device name is as you entered, have you tried dd if=/dev/ada1p5 of=/dev/null bs=1M count=10 and see what error mesage(s) you get. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Mar 25 17:49:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5841D154792C for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:49:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perickson@redlamb.net) Received: from smtp.redlamb.net (swoop.redlamb.net [50.244.208.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EF977BD3 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perickson@redlamb.net) Received: from Shrapnel.local (173-165-231-73-minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.165.231.73]) by smtp-01.ext.mn.redlamb.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3249F4E751; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 12:49:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: JD , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> <5C990650.6030907@gmail.com> From: Peter Erickson Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 12:48:57 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5C990650.6030907@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 92EF977BD3 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of perickson@redlamb.net designates 50.244.208.116 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=perickson@redlamb.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[swoop.redlamb.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:50.128.0.0/9, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.877,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[redlamb.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.86)[0.861,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.54)[0.538,0]; IP_SCORE(0.70)[ipnet: 50.128.0.0/9(3.45), asn: 7922(0.11), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:49:11 -0000 On 3/25/19 11:48 AM, JD wrote: > On 03/25/2019 10:25 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: >> While the partition is only 250M, anything is worth a shot at this >> point. Unfortunately, that didn't work either - same result. I'm glad >> that I'm not the only one that's stumped. >> >> # mount -t msdosfs -o ro,large /dev/ada1p5 /mnt >> mount_msdosfs: /dev/ada1p5: Invalid argument >> >> On 3/25/19 9:21 AM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: >>> On 3/25/19 2:42 AM, Peter Erickson wrote: >>>> I'm hoping to get some assistance mounting a FAT (FAT16?) partition >>>> created by the VMware ESXi installer (version 6.7.0). Every attempt >>>> to mount it on 11.2-RELEASE-p4, results in an "Invalid argument" >>>> error, without much to indicate what is wrong or how to resolve it. >>>> Any advice or direction would be much appreciated. >>> >>> I've had this problem in the past and solved using "-o large". >>> According to the man page this shouldn't be your case (and I don't >>> remember how big a partition I was trying to mount), but, for the >>> price, it's worth trying :) >>> >>> HTH. >>> >>>   bye > Assuming the device you entered (ada1p5) is the device in question, > have you tried the option  -o fat   instead of msdosfs ? > > Also, again assuming the device name is as you entered, have you tried > dd if=/dev/ada1p5 of=/dev/null bs=1M count=10 > and see what error mesage(s) you get. I have not tried either of those. However, what version of FreeBSD are you using which has the "-o fat" option? I'm not seeing it in mount(8) or mount_msdosfs(8). (I'm using 11.2-RELEASE-p4.) No errors result from trying to read from the device. # dd if=/dev/ada1p5 of=/dev/null bs=1M count=10 10+0 records in 10+0 records out 10485760 bytes transferred in 0.003344 seconds (3136079225 bytes/sec) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 06:21:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFD01565793 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:21:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emorrasg@yahoo.es) Received: from sonic309-26.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic309-26.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C719480744 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:21:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emorrasg@yahoo.es) X-YMail-OSG: lYsInzEVM1mlTm_S0785NoHQCu_.Xt7KnrY5qM6_d6C6peKdbCDT.yCDMdevtzw wQXlV96VoS35rb1qNameauNJBzyruY7Tq_d01IO7f79nymQxZP3r8MZFS6L14LmJTaXRhVZZk_Lm 193uH999w3xaBFUcXaplbH3lkNOrkVlu5DTmFKp2udQcD6fgsLcJdb94LTEP2Qvo80uSICay6WCd oMZNMz6yFWTzCGddukHu_JSdebQfxUbg0pqEXcLNCxdnHQw7RjrCyirBudentu5_YoWLowDiPdZU NInTWqzufKPcHGqa.aV0B2L5P78NG_kAOyFQB.rekWbC1sNW642ipUfNg_HA5Efwuw5rxz66Qojl lNlewnzdsUTXycJ_ngviGyzhRSvOSjdppGJepfrMkJTsK9e2KVB8qKJyMrkp6VMU2f3Q.5yx4h1S plLol.8QXB5TWoQoRCUt4Y0vmjiBPzQRHhhlJOpUGc6pfczYB0auTOc_kWDRucMRxZXvVKs23GIc WkVcncpi5p8ncqFW0TXaGrzITFLqvpSY2dGTnd1TxKRl_UH7TGQVr0eX5yHN800D1tLqfu9Xa7cJ w1Zz_FzZXoHFLw4jFj9pElFg.MGo2iUspv6Htcz6mwe75vUHBbBz3rXdzByRg1DSCkeKwsvq1KYf cyI3qI6pPGsp8A_cF_PBaEzbHm0qu6oBehIL.Qx0dIJVHrJOznbLunO62OXugA8ZXZ19xl.hlQGw JqjSovMGKI8A20VuwfzHVxXYi4k3b3.7KUGguCaQ4UmVqwysJDElhucqWdOvB9jUk7CW10wracx. 6frWFUbkPxSj_e6uvk_z1KH14qHO4tSS0I58VDQKTntaokvAaCQt4EjyATgg7Q9VAmv.sQ5Lq9ew mg4E9Gor2188mKQYP16whQ5F8x9K2mpPnyJH1NI6K1Z.eHF7wa32hccu3EjYwyLwWfqWQZzjeKb9 xD0.wRIzEmMzPaofQFPh2ZkEwpOUfNSN7ai6MfVFF9GF_MFsTXC5rN0dxFwc5hfMDt0Pb4MHroh4 Uswu1Kid2eYh0ACU4yaBQ0fNokEOfqnVsOcyXCDW7RH598D084P5EXAdwnFPBvecV9Q-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:21:00 +0000 Received: from 139.47.93.90 (EHLO emorras.eu) ([139.47.93.90]) by smtp401.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 365a15db79d8c144d9225b28b2cf8ead for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:21:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 08:27:04 +0100 From: Eduardo Morras To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) Message-Id: <20190326082704.9f70ba6200c36e874f3f6a35@yahoo.es> In-Reply-To: References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> <5C990650.6030907@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C719480744 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.38 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.es]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.es:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx-eu.mail.am0.yahoodns.net,mx-eu.mail.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.es,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.es]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.es:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.889,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.911,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(1.34)[ip: (2.63), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.33), asn: 34010(1.82), country: GB(-0.09)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.75)[0.753,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[84.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:21:10 -0000 On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 12:48:57 -0500 Peter Erickson wrote: What is the output of fstyp?? This outputs filesystem and label camibar% fstyp -lu /dev/da0s1 msdosfs EXTERNAL --- --- Eduardo Morras From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 09:54:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F38815491C8 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perickson@redlamb.net) Received: from smtp.redlamb.net (swoop.redlamb.net [50.244.208.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3C68875D for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:54:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perickson@redlamb.net) Received: from Shrapnel.mn.redlamb.net (Shrapnel.mn.redlamb.net [10.0.1.163]) by smtp-01.ext.mn.redlamb.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC4664E751; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 04:54:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Unable to mount FAT16 partition (Invalid Argument) To: Eduardo Morras , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3fbf4d30-e286-fe43-3476-d2f4626b2407@gmail.com> <93bd85ea-23ee-4932-34ed-45529c03022c@netfence.it> <3a981d25-529c-9df4-ef76-c2017d3b41f5@gmail.com> <5C990650.6030907@gmail.com> <20190326082704.9f70ba6200c36e874f3f6a35@yahoo.es> From: Peter Erickson Message-ID: <2de252d3-a627-5334-0a39-9bcc3526dcbb@redlamb.net> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 04:54:16 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190326082704.9f70ba6200c36e874f3f6a35@yahoo.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9A3C68875D X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of perickson@redlamb.net designates 50.244.208.116 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=perickson@redlamb.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.70)[0.704,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[redlamb.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.83)[0.829,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: swoop.redlamb.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.49)[0.491,0]; IP_SCORE(0.69)[ipnet: 50.128.0.0/9(3.41), asn: 7922(0.10), country: US(-0.07)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.es]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:50.128.0.0/9, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:54:24 -0000 On 3/26/19 2:27 AM, Eduardo Morras via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 12:48:57 -0500 > Peter Erickson wrote: > > What is the output of fstyp?? > > This outputs filesystem and label > > camibar% fstyp -lu /dev/da0s1 > msdosfs EXTERNAL > Unfortunately, I don't think this goes much help. # fstyp -lu /dev/ada1p5 msdosfs From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 10:21:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F6B154A6DB for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:21:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0DF0897DD for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:21:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x2QAGpIF013788 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:16:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Andrea Venturoli Subject: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:16:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D0DF0897DD X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.12)[ip: (0.40), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 30722(-0.05), country: IT(0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.51)[-0.513,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.71)[0.711,0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.78)[0.784,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx.netfence.it]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[netfence.it]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:21:53 -0000 Hello. I'm having trouble connecting (e.g. with fetch) to TLS servers which are using a Let's Encrypt certificate. The exact message depends on the client I use, but it goes along this line: >Protocol error (TLS code: X509_V_ERR_UNABLE_TO_GET_ISSUER_CERT_LOCALLY) >SSL Certficate error: certificate issuer (CA) not known: > /C=US/O=Let's Encrypt/CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3 Of course adding that specific certificate to /usr/local/etc/ssl/cert.pem is enough to solve. However, Let's encrypt seems to be widely accepted, so I was suprised not to find it in security/ca_root_nss. Also, some page on the Internet [1] suggests the certifiate should be there. [1] > https://www.linuxadminqa.com/freebsd-wget-can-not-confirm-certificates-issued-by-lets-encrypt/ Am I doing something wrong or is this certificate really missing? If so, why? Isn't it worth adding it? bye & Thanks av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 11:00:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87EFB154CB58 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:00:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yasu@utahime.org) Received: from gate.utahime.jp (gate.utahime.jp [183.180.29.210]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59A4D8B62F for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:00:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yasu@utahime.org) Received: from eastasia.home.utahime.org (eastasia.home.utahime.org [192.168.174.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by gate.utahime.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C2C836B4D for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:00:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (rolling.home.utahime.org [192.168.174.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by eastasia.home.utahime.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28FF227468; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:00:24 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.101.1 at eastasia.home.utahime.org Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 19:58:21 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20190326.195821.2023506369953085466.yasu@utahime.org> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate From: Yasuhiro KIMURA In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 59A4D8B62F X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yasu@utahime.org designates 183.180.29.210 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yasu@utahime.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.52)[-0.523,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:spf-authorized.utahime.org]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.827,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[utahime.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.utahime.org]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.05)[0.054,0]; IP_SCORE(0.14)[ip: (0.31), ipnet: 183.180.0.0/16(0.15), asn: 2519(0.31), country: JP(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2519, ipnet:183.180.0.0/16, country:JP]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:00:36 -0000 From: Andrea Venturoli Subject: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 11:16:51 +0100 > I'm having trouble connecting (e.g. with fetch) to TLS servers which > are using a Let's Encrypt certificate. > > The exact message depends on the client I use, but it goes along this > line: >>Protocol error (TLS code: >>X509_V_ERR_UNABLE_TO_GET_ISSUER_CERT_LOCALLY) >>SSL Certficate error: certificate issuer (CA) not known: >> /C=US/O=Let's Encrypt/CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3 What server application you use? Let's Encrypt Authority X3 is signed by DST Root CA X3. And DST Root CA X3 is included in security/ca_root_nss. So if you configured server application properly it should be able to use server sertificates issued by Let's Encrypt. For example * Web page of FreeBSD Project (https://www.freebsd.org/) uses server sertificates issued by Let's Encrypt. * If security/ca_root_nss is installed fetch(1) uses it as CA certificate. * fetch(1) can access web page of FreeBSD Project successfully as following. yasu@eastasia[2017]% fetch -v -o /dev/null https://www.freebsd.org/ resolving server address: www.freebsd.org:443 SSL options: 82004854 Peer verification enabled Using CA cert file: /usr/local/etc/ssl/cert.pem Verify hostname TLSv1.2 connection established using ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 Certificate subject: /CN=www.freebsd.org Certificate issuer: /C=US/O=Let's Encrypt/CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3 requesting https://www.freebsd.org/ remote size / mtime: 25662 / 1553597683 /dev/null 25 kB 134 kBps 00s yasu@eastasia[2018]% --- Yasuhiro KIMURA From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 12:47:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBA01551379 for ; 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Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:47:06 +0000 Received: from MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.82.56) by DM3NAM03FT043.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.227) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1750.11 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:47:06 +0000 Received: from MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7176:ea53:f443:76b6]) by MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7176:ea53:f443:76b6%11]) with mapi id 15.20.1730.019; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:47:06 +0000 From: Carmel NY To: FreeBSD Subject: Problem with NTPD Thread-Topic: Problem with NTPD Thread-Index: AQHU49IEtRUOj/Tio0GFppSd6RjBKA== Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:47:06 +0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: FreeBSD Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: BN8PR15CA0007.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:408:c0::20) To MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:72::8) x-mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; 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dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=cqU91mm1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=outlook.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carmel_ny@outlook.com designates 40.92.7.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carmel_ny@outlook.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.08 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[outlook.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[outlook.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.939,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[outlook.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[outlook.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.97)[ipnet: 40.64.0.0/10(-2.56), asn: 8075(-2.22), country: US(-0.07)]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[16.7.92.40.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:47:10 -0000 I awoke this morning to find that neither NTPD or portsnap were working correctly. Error message from NTPD: Mar 26 07:43:34 scorpio ntpd[66279]: error resolving pool 0.freebsd.pool.nt= p.org hostname nor servname provided, or not known (8)=20 And this one from portsnap: Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... none found. = =20 Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap.FreeBSD.org... failed. = =20 No mirrors remaining, giving up I am trying to figure out if this is a localized problem. --=20 Carmel From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 13:18:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE82615520A3 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E84F69FAB for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2BB63920F for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from leaf.local (unknown [88.212.184.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9EC8D1A52A for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:18:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/9EC8D1A52A; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Problem with NTPD To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: From: Matthew Seaman Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:17:56 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6E84F69FAB X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:18:07 -0000 On 26/03/2019 12:47, Carmel NY wrote: > I awoke this morning to find that neither NTPD or portsnap were working > correctly. Error message from NTPD: > > Mar 26 07:43:34 scorpio ntpd[66279]: error resolving pool 0.freebsd.pool.ntp.org > hostname nor servname provided, or not known (8) > > And this one from portsnap: > > Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... none found. > Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap.FreeBSD.org... failed. > No mirrors remaining, giving up > > > I am trying to figure out if this is a localized problem. > Looks like a problem with your DNS resolution, local to your own systems. Cheers, Matthew From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 13:26:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CE51552466 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:26:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@radel.com) Received: from radel.com (fly.radel.com [70.184.242.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.radel.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA2AB6A634 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:25:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@radel.com) X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.19.2 (ClamAV engine v0.99.2) X-ExtFilter: Niversoft's DomainKeys Helper DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; d=radel.com; s=20170108.radel; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=eEncm/IfIWPJDE4JPB+TeiZ5aVqNX+IGems6IyP7siPzW/FhAeEwkh7Be3KyHL2JqH svc/dYHvvh0XMGeiZ7PInB+yjJPoOXth1JYMH/8CYWfvMYYm2ZPy7sxkQSImcVqogeVu y57qTOBhWI+LdABCxt3wxbxCbevUw57WxWXxsgbjtl5O3JsURAV891SURjs4XEbHozc7 LgdCIz+r+Yh16/+X+GWAZF3E1/wrKd99h04vn8kZrmwYacBMdtKZ6K+ikhTlFSOE8mME J1L/4jZcdq89MNvHQDNrcKYw/6ODnXzL+GN1n0pfkOtk1IxNudaQBHyG4zHZvZDjeE27 6ybQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=radel.com; s=20170108.radel; t=1553605550; x=1554210350; q=dns/txt; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:X-Mailer: In-Reply-To:Date:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References: To; bh=INhe86SLcD3UzuYkt2O7V2dNJ4PYDGeqn3HBVPJlUN4=; b=Uon9Dn7sm o9L9Qmugu1H7rNqAqZ6JzP1zzw9x1g+IZKQkqCeJ0jfFpVM5hQWAPaJZKDNLkuPl AK077KPBBeC6VDKnRsJYHfmwhgqfloTwhdidFKjJvAoiKfR2LiveVbgDSQ2ESoX5 t7J6aEpdICFQwBxE+NYI2ORY1HwRo3pF6I9RRosUoe7ivfnWTLmxgHy67kyR2SAL zzRdlQkED8QvSZD0zE2l91ZFcMonMOoJFcuBM4s+e5KP/ZgqXA2jpv3lS55J9HYK /L7TsLrvlbq8eVZOscmAKir5Dd0FF2bzsjug0LWkoIiAUdGLIgdkLvi7oVOzb8Uz 01kY7KCnmIT5A== Received: from [2600:1003:b118:de19:39e4:144b:9427:c9c4] (account jon@radel.com HELO [IPv6:2600:1003:b118:de19:39e4:144b:9427:c9c4]) by radel.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14 _community_) with ESMTPSA id 1891686; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:05:50 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-4C7F247F-A0A1-484B-9968-3D8797FD6E3A; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Problem with NTPD From: Jon Radel X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16D57) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:05:49 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: FreeBSD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BA2AB6A634 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=radel.com header.s=20170108.radel header.b=Uon9Dn7s; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=radel.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jon@radel.com designates 70.184.242.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jon@radel.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:70.184.242.160/28]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[radel.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[radel-com.relay1h.spamh.com,radel-com.relay1i.spamh.com,radel-com.relay1g.spamh.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[radel.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[radel.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; IP_SCORE(0.28)[asn: 22773(1.44), country: US(-0.07)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22773, ipnet:70.184.240.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.72)[-0.718,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[radel.com:s=20170108.radel]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.37)[0.372,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:26:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4C7F247F-A0A1-484B-9968-3D8797FD6E3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mar 26, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Carmel NY wrote: >=20 > I awoke this morning to find that neither NTPD or portsnap were working > correctly. Error message from NTPD: >=20 > Mar 26 07:43:34 scorpio ntpd[66279]: error resolving pool 0.freebsd.pool.n= tp.org > hostname nor servname provided, or not known (8)=20 >=20 > And this one from portsnap: >=20 > Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... none found. = =20 > Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap.FreeBSD.org... failed. = =20 > No mirrors remaining, giving up >=20 Start by troubleshooting the DNS resolver(s) mentioned in /etc/resolv.conf. Y= our DNS lookups are failing.=20 >=20 > I am trying to figure out if this is a localized problem. 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MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.77)[-0.770,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:32:45 -0000 On 3/26/19, Carmel NY wrote: > I awoke this morning to find that neither NTPD or portsnap were working > correctly. Error message from NTPD: > > Mar 26 07:43:34 scorpio ntpd[66279]: error resolving pool > 0.freebsd.pool.ntp.org > hostname nor servname provided, or not known (8) > > And this one from portsnap: > > Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... none found. > > Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap.FreeBSD.org... failed. > > No mirrors remaining, giving up > > > I am trying to figure out if this is a localized problem. I often have that happen with one of my laptops. Usually, I reboot the machine and it manages to connect with the ISP. BMJ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 13:45:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042DD15535CD for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:45:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 468CA6BFD9 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:45:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x2QDjQmO035977 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Mar 2019 14:45:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate To: Yasuhiro KIMURA , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190326.195821.2023506369953085466.yasu@utahime.org> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <2ed32cc3-ab80-7a0c-58c2-152bee067f7a@netfence.it> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 14:45:26 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190326.195821.2023506369953085466.yasu@utahime.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 468CA6BFD9 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.77)[0.768,0]; IP_SCORE(0.12)[ip: (0.39), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(0.20), asn: 30722(-0.05), country: IT(0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[netfence.it]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.75)[0.755,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx.netfence.it]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.20)[0.199,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 13:45:42 -0000 On 3/26/19 11:58 AM, Yasuhiro KIMURA wrote: > What server application you use? I use Let's Encrypt certificates in Apache's HTTPd, sendmail, cyrus-imap, etc... However, this is not relevant here: I'm talking about FreeBSD as a client and not necessarily connecting to "my" servers. > Let's Encrypt Authority X3 is signed by DST Root CA X3. Ok. > And DST Root CA X3 is included in security/ca_root_nss. Right again: I did not notice this. > So if you configured server application > properly it should be able to use server sertificates issued by Let's > Encrypt. Again, it's not a server problem, but rather a client program. It works now, even if I didn't change anything!!! I don't know what happened really... several sites were not working, but they are reachable again. Thanks anyway and sorry for the noise! bye av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 15:10:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387931555C16 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:10:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phascolarctos@protonmail.ch) Received: from mail4.protonmail.ch (mail4.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.protonmail.ch", Issuer "SwissSign Server Silver CA 2014 - G22" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12A1A6FE00 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:10:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phascolarctos@protonmail.ch) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:10:05 +0000 To: FreeBSD Questions From: Lorenzo Salvadore Reply-To: Lorenzo Salvadore Subject: Re: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2ed32cc3-ab80-7a0c-58c2-152bee067f7a@netfence.it> References: <20190326.195821.2023506369953085466.yasu@utahime.org> <2ed32cc3-ab80-7a0c-58c2-152bee067f7a@netfence.it> Feedback-ID: X6az_D2smWSR8MT5MHqXnWF0upxehDyHia7Id1cbayHNBUkRu3CIeusDsZHiivIIjmaKB1_OofpALrRUYjNz3w==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on mail.protonmail.ch X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 12A1A6FE00 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.85 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[phascolarctos@protonmail.ch]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[protonmail.ch:s=default]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[protonmail.ch.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:185.70.40.0/24]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mailsec.protonmail.ch]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[protonmail.ch:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[protonmail.ch,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-3.75)[ip: (-9.85), ipnet: 185.70.40.0/24(-4.90), asn: 19905(-3.92), country: US(-0.07)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:19905, ipnet:185.70.40.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[27.40.70.185.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 15:10:25 -0000 =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday 26 March 2019 14:45, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > On 3/26/19 11:58 AM, Yasuhiro KIMURA wrote: > > > What server application you use? > > I use Let's Encrypt certificates in Apache's HTTPd, sendmail, > cyrus-imap, etc... > However, this is not relevant here: I'm talking about FreeBSD as a > client and not necessarily connecting to "my" servers. > > > Let's Encrypt Authority X3 is signed by DST Root CA X3. > > Ok. > > > And DST Root CA X3 is included in security/ca_root_nss. > > Right again: I did not notice this. > > > So if you configured server application > > properly it should be able to use server sertificates issued by Let's > > Encrypt. > > Again, it's not a server problem, but rather a client program. > > It works now, even if I didn't change anything!!! > I don't know what happened really... several sites were not working, but > they are reachable again. > > Thanks anyway and sorry for the noise! > > bye > av. I sometimes experienced similar strange behaviors with certificates. I do not know very well how certificates work, but I think time is a factor and if responses arrive too late the certificate is not correctly recognize= d (please, be patient if I'm wrong, my knowledge on the topic is vague). I notice that we are both from Italy: I wonder if the problem is that our connections sometimes are too slow to have certificates work correctly. Lorenzo Salvadore. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 21:30:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE3A155FDA6 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josema101@msn.com) Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092006043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.6.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 906A48745D for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josema101@msn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=msn.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NqZeRD9NXup9mYXhtOCMvwugd/SpjSYO3gt70BmCp8o=; b=ewMV+9WQs2zmIHb2XEDMurEsZAED4xfZ8wga040HrRHujxQEUfXL8B5llx4kOkfEfFCy7GKcUfsHzfGnZ4i0e00gazdnxhTcpsbCRQnrsU139Bw32fKxt/oAlU7OeNjDy1Od3w6PpwoYgZCLzJXtHP+SkpoKFjJAkZ4prl6kFNJHS8ckwEAr80uEX4Ywqhh+UCF64DGEcNq8GPaSU1AKgqmiaT3tWMkqIRuEi/GFzCD6vcIfWVhqiAcViv0SXRwqlGk8V3w7NC31jk6kxWrHizlzaLKolZlcfrlgjUT1NchiXX0HQbBUyl6YZdAGKm9VZcD8oMbRlBAhd+Udy2Y88w== Received: from DM3NAM03FT012.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.56) by DM3NAM03HT144.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1730.9; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22 +0000 Received: from MWHPR1301MB1951.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.82.57) by DM3NAM03FT012.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.116) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1750.11 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22 +0000 Received: from MWHPR1301MB1951.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f1cb:edea:5194:5b06]) by MWHPR1301MB1951.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f1cb:edea:5194:5b06%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1750.014; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel_RoMa?= To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: why not? (suggestion) Thread-Topic: why not? (suggestion) Thread-Index: AQHU5Bimaam2sFLFI0u69JOxsMIWWA== Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: es-MX, en-US Content-Language: es-MX X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:43B6E5FE182824BA368A1248310322E469F9CCDBC7CD32803839EC99AA81FA4E; UpperCasedChecksum:57AE383CEB5EF94D2C39628A1B2690CD9FE5B48F5F9A2A476E7C92FBE3117AB9; SizeAsReceived:6643; Count:41 x-tmn: [BytL8mH80Byaj9UqNEXvLusHNqZn7wwYkXOzF6Mkod0=] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 41 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(20181119110)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031323274)(2017031324274)(2017031322404)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:DM3NAM03HT144; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM3NAM03HT144: x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XLjVTuAm7r1E4NR7C5zEboS9QXegln0dNR22lkicnZDD5RbfoLcp5ka5yC0hfHvs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 28ba965d-8706-40ec-9704-08d6b23240e3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22.4938 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM3NAM03HT144 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 906A48745D X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=msn.com header.s=selector1 header.b=ewMV+9WQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=msn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of josema101@msn.com designates 40.92.6.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=josema101@msn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.37 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.859,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[msn.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[msn.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[5]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[msn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[msn-com.olc.protection.outlook.com,msn-com.olc.protection.outlook.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[msn.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[43.6.92.40.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.500,0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[msn.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[msn.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:26 -0000 Hi there. Why is there no more support for multimedia in BSD, to match in that sense = to GNU-Linux, in the multimedia part? For editing video, audio, images, etc., as well as improving software and h= ardware compatibility. It is necessary that BSD have pages like these (for video too): http://linux-sound.org/ http://linux-audio.com/ Or maybe, develop a multimedia BSD version like Gentoo has: https://gentoos= tudio.org or UbuntoStudio. Maybe work together with other current BDS-like (and BSD community) to work= and improve those aspects. I hope something can be done, I hope you consider it. I think the BSD user community would grow exponentially in the world. Thank you. Jose. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 22:23:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4A51561AFF for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:23:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F13B898E0 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:23:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1553639005; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=JqrfNR3uHDXkI1bPNqLqkia06xg=; b=QDfLqIHOLrUlvOSle83e+XxjQ2baQH9zPyEzuqsG00+ImJPsoKBbliF4jwzsbnAr A5/mk4akqqqA3H3F0hiZ8M/xTw+p4+Q5yw5SYJ713oTpEmyuLhIDMKD3w7ECRuwz +QCvAW2LE3vtQlWf73109JhShPJtK8utkFDpjklV6ClQj0OS6wHD/dtG6xhZFZNV YUTm9m+fF9DMfnS3sYUSb2NkF14lXLX28j6iDAOIKdC0wxvo9TyGPvvIa7MFVDsp ciI+TjQq6WJvtq7Y7shc6NmU09LckrZYKxjcCKDAtiSMMgsBt+FbIKw2+b4Z5DA1 diuWHY9i8A50Ewdv0PLmIg==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=I7wnf5og c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=NTGMnVQrEZIA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=p-A0cNvjhSIqfJrpMxUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=roberthuff@rcn.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp02.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=roberthuff; auth=pass (PLAIN) Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:25512] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 47/8A-18763-D56AA9C5; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:23:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23706.42587.839960.62436@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:23:23 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel_RoMa?= Cc: "freebsd-questions\@FreeBSD.org" Subject: why not? (suggestion) In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7F13B898E0 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=QDfLqIHO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.86 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.85)[ip: (-9.54), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-4.69), asn: 36271(0.03), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.rcn.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.893,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[msn.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:23:32 -0000 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel_RoMa?= writes: > Why is there no more support for multimedia in BSD, to match in > that sense to GNU-Linux, in the multimedia part? Thank you for volunteering to take on such a large and complex project, with its multitude of specifications, near-zero tolerance for error, and unco-operative yet unforgiving user base! We look forward to seeing the release candidate by ... say the end of next week? Sarcastically (and probably unhelpfully), Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 22:31:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729B21561FE1 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5063289CF4 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mlf8e-1ghmyn3xS6-00ik10; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:26:12 +0100 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:26:11 +0100 From: Polytropon To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Manuel RoMa Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: why not? (suggestion) Message-Id: <20190326232611.667022eb.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3zMza7dLjXHVPZubYXqPFhDUsjQ8F1xTk/3gHFowF3lbViigpCc jEdLPVnYhatdIrCGq6MzTIq9CDfABXoM65VgzjdgV/LZAn592v5wDaJJHcrJ2wPZUIgelFR Jqy/GN7FxlEjwreLamHKBw0bnSWdFt9PO9ksap4Avny6CIoTuhN9DBP1xJSy/Jhu2HNYdN2 HkFqxiCtYVDQBjYXD6rGw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+K+Mbpnx53Q=:kABVKc3c/ufL53HiIZk8g+ ZpsdbUg9GOWdHeOYyHVDVo3lUia5Tg/CWb9Bn33fnGvHC6rdHVxAuQiCRRscqpyolRNaXCa/v Fqk/AeUj7YFsvzyVW+BI5e5Ira3M6AMcjfAeYNyeLp9BygSegG2W46M2iBCgYhOSzdyEaLzni FacJEcs4WWGeg4OFRCF2tnpxTK7STmY/8SfIywKOU7qGv89fySKK32oYCJfjfl63XIkwE4qil 4t6FPmeVNdrhUGdpnSyc7w1MyRtxgEjbkr36sPeDaS6fdDJc8dBDbLMhXe9pbJExKiU5HUYt0 Gpncry/V0aotRrJazJyePQyU6ozqnW15wnRTLpGhiayW/9fUHxCHZera+kn4jkpmQbn0dDN0C i7Dq2c3osKy6yF3kU5B+gG+39vwH0fuqPmRt1u2CyDtkxqjOVH/ZljZfe2Uhkm+h/qdECaout +PoH4QqLfJAHO2nmoaMj39u92LSQX9fa8GnTDp3It6ItrbNil3D8wjmGz3pgaPxriBUd8riTU EvjK4RaQlgA2h1EYNhk8tW8p+NuDydANgJSP9nM2aaL5nMtnM7bd3amZTPtUTaoOZUD+Sd15w KXhMkM3meN2ZrMG5wM2EIEMuEjCaRvHsAeyPveQimf/EUEEL9ykDqpNC8dFwFDx9/NDOnl3rw 70IX0Pd7HAgEEJR1GNtzDQseHxnZkTrQ0Er4+8PhhBqZ4U1MkGQYGUYwYYFOeJDPk30/sD8Dg UZLhh79npA2E4IAe26d/6S7/+1pz9byOe9Q3B+QGFKKbwNQqMpxBEQe49GI= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5063289CF4 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.43 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[msn.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.51)[0.506,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.64)[0.639,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.83)[0.834,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.06)[ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.32), asn: 8560(1.62), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 22:31:33 -0000 On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 21:30:22 +0000, Jos=E9 Manuel RoMa wrote: > Why is there no more support for multimedia in BSD, to match > in that sense to GNU-Linux, in the multimedia part? >=20 > For editing video, audio, images, etc., as well as improving > software and hardware compatibility. So I'm obviously doing something wrong for decades now: I use FreeBSD for editing video, audio, images, multimedia creation and convertion, etc. ;-) FreeBSD offers a lot of tools in the "audio", "graphics", and "multimedia" category of the ports collection which a user can easily install with a simple "pkg install" call. Of course, being aware (!) of what programs can do and what their names are is very important to be able to choose the right tool. > It is necessary that BSD have pages like these (for video too): > http://linux-sound.org/ > http://linux-audio.com/ >=20 > Or maybe, develop a multimedia BSD version like Gentoo has: > https://gentoostudio.org or UbuntoStudio. I agree with the documentation part, this would be useful for novice users who want to explore the possibilities. A multimedia- centric "fork" would probably lead to fragmentation and incompatibilities as it can be observed in the Linux world (even though it is intended there, I think). However, "meta-packages" from "meta-ports" could contain predefined sets of programs that can be installed easily, consisting of a desktop, a preconfiguration, and specific programs. For example one of those "meta-packages" could install a complete video-editing workstation (software-wise), with editors, mixers, converters, and so on. Regarding the OS: I think TrueOS (ex PC-BSD) would be a great base to build such a solution on. > I hope something can be done, I hope you consider it. Always keep in mind that FreeBSD as the operating system does not hold responsibility for what 3rd party programs are made available. This is a (more or less) entirely different field. Most multimedia applications are ports of Linux programs anyway, so what you can use on Linux, _and_ port to FreeBSD, can mostly be used on FreeBSD afterwards. A problem of course is that Linux and the BSDs are different things regarding OS implementation and structure, so the more a program relies on "Linuxisms" (i. e., things that are unique and specific to Linux and do not exist on BSD), the harder it is to port it to FreeBSD. This does include kernel functionalities as well as libraries and their functions. > I think the BSD user community would grow exponentially in the world. I'm not sure we'll ever be able to measure that... ;-) --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Mar 26 23:26:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEBE15636E8 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87B5C8BBF9 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:26:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gobble.wa@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id w26so7725589vsk.13 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:26:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TcGm57L+wggWDmZLrtVqcRjvYSMFG7QE4ebqUhikoJo=; b=uRxLu2Cvp9geBXQPTkNKiBfeROWxuxFGY/FLc5FZ8U2EsOVG03KbGHaHmWUPV0vcKU zP+z4eC4oZs/fo0H6rpte08IazLz0gnZJO2aBS57W9oaqHMnrfzQlOdBGQzvecJfEQ9a piyzyu/ZsHfwZrSkAx4YWGiUfZGrWHQvmHFNmBwR2GGgaYdFUn4noKqS3Jm3H/94+8dj Onv4xsn6f+b4NZ7fOHsrII3EFbE+rYn3AncTeYjEw3UJjaaUoSlrqhGAiZ2xvcEaHw9A 4hwFhZhXN2ghYN6mLdL+baiLLIggS/72jSKB0vUktH7ocj3MYpCUs8LbeF2SoLLtEbc5 it8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TcGm57L+wggWDmZLrtVqcRjvYSMFG7QE4ebqUhikoJo=; b=a0an4MNjmE+3KLjVz6OCg+Wb4Yb7ankLwNiGMxawJdDIfHAup5AftUXmtDvNqOW4zS J9o7emVa15zH02KM1uEdUYDow9G+GrA6iT5kufFpVihyClEBgQ/qzXWcYuE9p5wyH2yD fbDq3FB+MM9P6UXunxCDxJDrJR/h1qeqXNp77+q/s1oxzVnotO9EILpRU/CcPVRqxmOK ze9meFgWRg/OKddWT0+Zs6vujNbf1CE15MypPPmVgm1R4CjoqgzThhi/ghNkIP2kZWDU UZMe6AIDQZQNHqLohe0KEJTSopTbPwWdJQhG2YKjehcJ/L1UU+J45wrzeBAxX+hfqFfI hP+g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXPhTrGoITRJwSgnUosHMtvb7e6wpX7InrCXbr6rryptDI9wX/D 9thyeA9NTDipmayddEqrU7Rz1jgcYfqiWQ/mN3ysTkVMWYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwfdRM7O7l5rmeUEUTuD9uqlDXho85Nf49qiCnthwbrsxliFSk1/8c34ZZ8SgsyHAvG9fmaCDfFtiHCEBpYV7Y= X-Received: by 2002:a67:7404:: with SMTP id p4mr12906867vsc.45.1553642806609; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:26:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Waitman Gobble Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 16:26:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: why not? (suggestion) To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 87B5C8BBF9 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=uRxLu2Cv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gobblewa@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gobblewa@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.92 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.93)[ip: (-9.59), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.85), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 23:26:48 -0000 On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:33 PM Jos=C3=A9 Manuel RoMa w= rote: > > Hi there. > > > Why is there no more support for multimedia in BSD, to match in that sens= e to GNU-Linux, in the multimedia part? > > For editing video, audio, images, etc., as well as improving software and= hardware compatibility. > > It is necessary that BSD have pages like these (for video too): > http://linux-sound.org/ > http://linux-audio.com/ > > Or maybe, develop a multimedia BSD version like Gentoo has: https://gento= ostudio.org or UbuntoStudio. > > Maybe work together with other current BDS-like (and BSD community) to wo= rk and improve those aspects. > > I hope something can be done, I hope you consider it. > > I think the BSD user community would grow exponentially in the world. > > Thank you. > > > Jose. I've been using FreeBSD for professional video, audio and image / photo editing for years. Also use Linux, and I have an MS Windows machine here. I'm not sure what deficiency you speak about? There are some commercial programs that are developed for Windows/Mac that do not run on FreeBSD. If you can get them to run on Linux with Wine then you can do it on FreeBSD too. FreeBSD has Linux compatibility if need be, there are some programs like (i think?) the web cam software which need Linux libraries. I've been using NVIDIA graphics cards for years, and no issues, 3d acceleration and opengl works great. I'm pretty sure Intel cards work and probably AMD cards are working.. there was a time years ago when AMD cards weren't so hot, i wouldn't mess with them, but at that time it was also true for AMD on Linux really. NVIDIA produces drivers for FreeBSD. Audio works well, FreeBSD is especially good for recording. You can record at 192KHz/24bit if you have the right hardware. (the right hardware isn't very expensive, there just aren't many devices that support good recording). OSS is great. SNDIO works great. You can use pulseaudio and alsa too if you want, but why bother. Maybe you're missing games, i dunno. I don't really play games much more than once a year. However, Sony reportedly chose FreeBSD for their PlayStation OS. They didn't use Linux. (It doesn't mean that you can play playstation games on FreeBSD.) I looked at those page links you sent. I do not understand what purpose they serve. FreeBSD is well-known for having great documentation. But it can always be better. -- Waitman Gobble From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Mar 27 09:04:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1A01549694 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B7C06CC67 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:04:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from guardian.ventu (net-93-70-118-123.cust.vodafonedsl.it [93.70.118.123]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x2R93R5R044229 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:03:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host net-93-70-118-123.cust.vodafonedsl.it [93.70.118.123] claimed to be guardian.ventu Subject: Re: security/ca_root_nss missing Let's Encrypt X3 certificate To: Lorenzo Salvadore , FreeBSD Questions References: <20190326.195821.2023506369953085466.yasu@utahime.org> <2ed32cc3-ab80-7a0c-58c2-152bee067f7a@netfence.it> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <98e7fc73-6525-d7f8-e085-23843abe0167@netfence.it> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:03:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.83 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4B7C06CC67 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.88 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.73)[0.731,0]; IP_SCORE(0.12)[ip: (0.38), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(0.19), asn: 30722(-0.05), country: IT(0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[netfence.it]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.88)[0.883,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.26)[0.264,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.118.70.93.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:04:13 -0000 On 3/26/19 4:10 PM, Lorenzo Salvadore via freebsd-questions wrote: > I sometimes experienced similar strange behaviors with certificates. > I do not know very well how certificates work, but I think time is a factor > and if responses arrive too late the certificate is not correctly recognized > (please, be patient if I'm wrong, my knowledge on the topic is vague). > > I notice that we are both from Italy: I wonder if the problem is that our > connections sometimes are too slow to have certificates work correctly. I confirm I have a slow line (can't get anything better here unfortunately). However, AFAIK, a slow line can't cause certificate misvalidation (I waited some time before answering, hoping someone more expert than me did). bye & Thanks av. 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[image: beacon] From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Mar 27 13:46:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE57155092E for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:46:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeniffer.john@clienthubmarketing.com) Received: from mail-pl1-x641.google.com (mail-pl1-x641.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::641]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A9F47582B for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:46:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeniffer.john@clienthubmarketing.com) Received: by mail-pl1-x641.google.com with SMTP id p19so3349051plo.2 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=clienthubmarketing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=sE6B7Y8lV0lGmZIpQ7/JxF1Y1BxMXl4NXuWVEw4otZE=; b=NaGzxySqTRqPiyiP9md+Om2rwVnoPgmhC3ipE2HIl8S9b7N+aA+KZg6VqIIsjBkmI6 hFg31zFIIYKS5PxEt3PYmL2LuRq/7AoSZEJNtDC85AUwwfzEUMirdFoQc+aEfT2YMMHk zAzispIa1cviqSIu5YeQxxoz24w4OdZB9wOnkExtGrKffYDGSHG/ivtMAb9B1PBbdKmV YMLB3Ss/DKvbun1bPXtNOVFBWHONzwxuzLTdwv2jFt9/wh5L//rKQGP8HKiR3NXEHLkD A6PzJXLVcfhl2gBONAnb7tZySM/mkLHFkfWi0AL/gXGXnIj7jQqFvWRKI3i5NOBxeyxR T0Kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=sE6B7Y8lV0lGmZIpQ7/JxF1Y1BxMXl4NXuWVEw4otZE=; b=QjI6IyT6ALAmdsRPi0V3FdjfzsWGAqi2mos4Q9DFmh6aEOx4pj2gh/LhY2IhCsba5Y HaKuqw4OD7WTF3L7bZnDoCPaZi/U0OMWbG4x6lpjdLJNZVwiH5VDGnXMXdspiQ1Fddhg or/lXf536TbSdk/ou6sYucrVvgCa3RxjrFkgaMQZWurJJR+5TbG+qfEFlAqp777evdV/ 3etuyNwMumHyti8hNg7x+YjyBIktgZJx/TcSdqMCcFaF2JVeazoQIMsxXJV9LJylaI5v Ad+Iq171IFjFJj6S/txDnbHuZPPigxI6SDjrB3m3OKTubz90aIn0zyLmi0E+FGJCgIi7 QYjA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXhIt55+Ik/abdlHkWSIbRsiHfmpZpzK5YDvPDz7hdI+8XjO7k9 eHnG1Sk1CEN3G45Lg3hXh/81m41rexBDlg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyvq3QIwIbUTXgCVjq/d9n4KoGSNTp/c2EUK281ZS1+brtjTdrm45OWky6dC66/l1OVrIhOAQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d889:: with SMTP id b9mr34642896plz.294.1553694368397; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AdminPC ([2409:4071:210b:d1b:4812:5a31:6e68:bf30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m7sm62458022pgg.62.2019.03.27.06.46.04 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeniffer John X-Google-Original-From: "Jeniffer John" To: References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: IPW - U.S. Travel Association Attendee list 2019 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:44:30 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdTegs5HfnP6pr0nQCeyiPXaoDDQmgGIFgqQ Content-Language: en-us X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1A9F47582B X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=clienthubmarketing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=NaGzxySq; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jeniffer.john@clienthubmarketing.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::641 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jeniffer.john@clienthubmarketing.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[clienthubmarketing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[clienthubmarketing.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[clienthubmarketing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.46)[-0.460,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.55)[ip: (2.31), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.85), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:46:11 -0000 Hi, Just following up. I know you're busy. Just give me a 1, 2 1. Send pricing and data counts. 2. I could potentially use your solution, but in future. Waiting for your response. Regards, Jennifer John From: Jeniffer John [mailto:Jeniffer.John@clienthubmarketing.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 2:38 PM To: 'freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org' Subject: IPW - U.S. Travel Association Attendee list 2019 Importance: High Hi Would you be interested in IPW - U.S. Travel Association Attendee list 2019? which includes complete contact details and verified email address. Could you please let me know your thoughts? In turn, I'll get back with counts and pricing details for your consideration. Looking forward to hear from you. Thanks and Regards! Jeniffer John Marketing Coordinator If you do not wish to receive future emails from us, please reply as 'leave out' From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Mar 27 18:24:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40934155699E for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 18:24:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 131338796A for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 18:24:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id k8so15297237lja.8 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:24:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZtTgiuwiUhzkSksityi07f33jJTVFPjJSq21xJgiANU=; b=SVXvOOcx1nokrMd07wvRDm1MxKYdVC9iyCgkWlrkXktGLHC/I5vZDo67XSAZc5kfVB V5TRPl5LXFdDBfsyavqbwJ4Nlg+F3jyPqEewzwO+CMNsDtYeEkiQm3gyMTU3ZfIMq6SI BycEfvjPYH9+ajevozGv30zSFAlUE7w/e+RZ+gOrUsZnP0NFS1qunEm6PJLN9v787HdO lY80cBhbX0JibL5CRSNoB26iYobQIttuiOTYua+Xhw/AnXaZ10bF2BFaLCKDjGLR0eZK 9KDmYZuLf8UyOkTGOexlTxTKRoxYNqg05gKsum10F5RLzXIYIp/xtyvYE2vxMDq5BlOx ljUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZtTgiuwiUhzkSksityi07f33jJTVFPjJSq21xJgiANU=; b=E7J6HKpD3nPGMBNEpqxRHWswdtEYWJ6qFbOBHud70uUtLdhN5LQEr91lSRVPp05Hja PkU57ry8zttlX91vGD1WJUkwuQOBctbDvhPcv4oRh3GNDeQrxHN3UBTR/NCwWcv8l7R7 zcfX5N/RuQU6d0BXgGPdbwaQFh5b4sRetjDK5KubNLVJPSB9q/tTLs889r88F2hqi6WO u2QxOwJlmlGQMwa/hyuTVJR8bEFH6eZ4aElI7kJ7GZ+nTITjlWOy9w71rmGeLz99bqxK C7f0szAIS5rUzwXUHP9uJcLbuiLQW8cky/55FcfdAkrkvWboT9YIVGZATorqkW9KrTZB HhmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVzu01YrbA0hQtVcNML74aDlLdRRD6nh9yGHIJp0p+IeHeZnzXB g2Sh5tF8dN0Y93LY5MwhOoLmZbSf X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx8+Qud0EPesz16wyNvFyIpNA7EqPmAsElci1Dbp2fCMDuad94Pzxtp0AatH+vOtZwERQMnDQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9703:: with SMTP id r3mr20085684lji.88.1553711040453; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from komp.skl (178-37-170-0.adsl.inetia.pl. [178.37.170.0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r9sm4695275lff.83.2019.03.27.11.23.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 19:23:58 +0100 From: Zbigniew Komarnicki To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Robert Huff Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 In-Reply-To: <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 131338796A X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SVXvOOcx; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cblasius@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cblasius@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.87 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.86)[ip: (-9.72), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.39), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 18:24:03 -0000 On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:29:16 -0400 Robert Huff wrote: > For comparison: > > em0: port 0xe800-0xe83f mem 0xfebe0000-0xfebfffff irq 21 at device 6.0 on pci3 > em0: Using 1024 tx descriptors and 1024 rx descriptors > em0: Ethernet address: 00:04:23:e5:50:6c > em0: netmap queues/slots: TX 1/1024, RX 1/1024 > > Is iflib loaded? Other than that I have no idea. > > > Respectfully, > > > Robert Huff Thanks, but I do not know if iflib is loaded. I simply burn the iso from https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/12.0/FreeBSD-12.0-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso on DVD and install this OS with default settings (I use auto ZFS on whole disk). Thats all. I'm still novice user in BSD world. I can add that this computer simply work on Debian 9 or Windows 7 without any problem with this network card. So the question is why this network card do not works on fresh install on FreeBSD 12.0? Thanks in advance. Zbigniew From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Mar 27 20:26:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E47155A1EE for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from npai-2015@mail.pf) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18D88D817 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from npai-2015@mail.pf) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 85A75155A1ED; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:41 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617FA155A1EC for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from npai-2015@mail.pf) Received: from mailing.mana.pf (mailing.mana.pf [202.3.227.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18D28D816 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from npai-2015@mail.pf) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (26.178.185.203.dsl.dyn.mana.pf [203.185.178.26]) (Authenticated sender: crea@mailing.vini.pf) by mailing.mana.pf (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 887FE46EE7 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:26:40 -1000 (-10) Message-ID: From: "Electro Tahiti" To: Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Profitez_des_offres_sp=E9ciales_salon_de_l'habitat?= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:25:21 -1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190327-4, 27/03/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A18D28D816 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of npai-2015@mail.pf designates 202.3.227.110 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=npai-2015@mail.pf X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mailing.mana.pf]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[mail.pf]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.vini.pf]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[tahiti-newsletter@mail.pf,npai-2015@mail.pf]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[110.227.3.202.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[26.178.185.203.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[mail.pf]; ASN(0.00)[asn:9471, ipnet:202.3.227.0/24, country:PF]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[tahiti-newsletter@mail.pf,npai-2015@mail.pf]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[mail.pf]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.961,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.988,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.990,0]; IP_SCORE(0.38)[ip: (1.06), ipnet: 202.3.227.0/24(0.53), asn: 9471(0.30), country: PF(0.01)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 20:26:42 -0000 Si ce message ne s'affiche pas correctement, consultez-le en ligne http://www.novacom.pf/partenaires/miroir/D5A141CFDDBE41319C2EA2F6D6F72CD3.p= hp?e-mail=3Dquestions@freebsd.org Profitez des offres sp=E9ciales sur l=92=E9lectrom=E9nager Whirlpool=20 Jusqu'au 13 avril 2019 ELECTRO TAHITI www.electrotahiti.pf=20 Renseignement au 40 42 44 09 Cette newsletter a =E9t=E9 rout=E9 par NOVACOM > www.novacom.pf D=E9couvrez nos sites >>=20 =95 E-commerce et V=E9hicules d'occasions : www.achats-ventes.pf=20 =95 Petites Annonces : www.tahiti-annonces.com=20 =95 Annuaire des Sites Polyn=E9siens : www.tahitisites.com=20 =95 Annuaire des Professionnels : www.annuaire-pf.com=20 D=E9sabonnement >> Conform=E9ment =E0 l'article 34 de la loi =AB Informatique et Libert=E9s = =BB du 6 janvier 1978, vous disposez d'un droit d'acc=E8s,de modification, = de rectification et de suppression de vos informations personnelles. 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[65.25.53.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id t24sm10046422ioi.66.2019.03.27.14.45.15 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 17:45:16 -0400 From: Ernie Luzar User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zbigniew Komarnicki CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Huff Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4346469EE0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=iuUXLqXn; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of luzar722@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luzar722@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.929,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.72)[ip: (1.49), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.86), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 21:45:18 -0000 Zbigniew Komarnicki wrote: > On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:29:16 -0400 > Robert Huff wrote: >> For comparison: >> >> em0: port 0xe800-0xe83f mem 0xfebe0000-0xfebfffff irq 21 at device 6.0 on pci3 >> em0: Using 1024 tx descriptors and 1024 rx descriptors >> em0: Ethernet address: 00:04:23:e5:50:6c >> em0: netmap queues/slots: TX 1/1024, RX 1/1024 >> >> Is iflib loaded? Other than that I have no idea. >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> Robert Huff > > Thanks, but I do not know if iflib is loaded. I simply burn the iso from > https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/12.0/FreeBSD-12.0-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso > on DVD and install this OS with default settings (I use auto ZFS on whole disk). Thats all. > I'm still novice user in BSD world. I can add that this computer simply work on Debian 9 > or Windows 7 without any problem with this network card. So the question is why this network card > do not works on fresh install on FreeBSD 12.0? > > Thanks in advance. > > Zbigniew > Is your em0 built into the motherboard or a plug in board. How old is your motherboard. My em0 and em1 were built in on the motherboard. Had no problems release 9 through 11. For 12.0 started having network problems. Disabled them in bios and replaced with PCIE type plug in cards. Every thing back to normal. Just my 2 cents. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 03:42:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B1E1569606 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:42:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAC6880FF6 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:42:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1553744530; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=34J5ddQ7aU8DDSFyXXjl8fDFETc=; b=s5sPZUcimGz+5KPfVN+ZDTw4K+dLAJryjykVVf4WWVM9xbXYW+s9Prs1KFljfDws jwE/wu0JTkt8L2uoUHxMiOO0UWoLBn8jMGzVinPn4S8TQgCy1Pvg6NZlgSdeCIkk txtXr49Jbk7bf20bV0PnxpCaf5PTBDZ0+nv9MJuKwY09EV3B1eSwRweJjH63h/MW Vp04qQCI3DykBxtKKqT8l3ccJJrHyTs8L/RupMLP4BXea6EJkLg/7dBhufM6nIai a6Om0YSdGpZR9WJ70CvQCmNKmZ6elObTFrzkI+/1HwHuPx6KemEDgylGtUdwrJQI QRbdMFFDXLnlKzAQy/E+ag==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=Jomzl4wC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=NTGMnVQrEZIA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=HD89MK-hin8jnqZEobMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.mail=roberthuff@rcn.com; spf=softfail; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp03.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=roberthuff; auth=pass (PLAIN) Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:41415] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 9B/F4-22523-1924C9C5; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 23:42:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23708.17041.352138.623427@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 23:42:09 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: Ernie Luzar Cc: Zbigniew Komarnicki , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Huff Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 In-Reply-To: <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AAC6880FF6 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=s5sPZUci; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.39 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.86)[ip: (-9.55), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-4.70), asn: 36271(0.02), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.rcn.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.42)[-0.418,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:42:18 -0000 Ernie Luzar writes: > Is your em0 built into the motherboard or a plug in board. > > My em0 and em1 were built in on the motherboard. Had no problems release > 9 through 11. For 12.0 started having network problems. Disabled them in > bios and replaced with PCIE type plug in cards. Every thing back to normal. For the record: mine is a two port add-on, about 10 years old. It is reported by pciconf as: em0@pci0:3:6:0: class=0x020000 card=0x10128086 chip=0x10108086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82546EB Gigabit Ethernet Controller (Copper)' class = network subclass = ethernet As far as I know ... on-board or add-on shouldn't matter. If it does, and if this has changed from 11 to 12, someone should open a bug and point to this thread. Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 12:10:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CD4155AFB0 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:10:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luzar722@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FF616D9DE for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:10:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luzar722@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id x3so16999571iol.10 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 05:10:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zxshTx6stXvF0gzFt9CieJtudpSVJAFN4GAo7PPXAeY=; b=GDP22iLPUWiqMFbFCD3vIMhgvxRa7JppB58/1kQqmw2QcTX9pfk1TD2AN4qx9Jz4fd 4A4xYkL2ovEKM4/ACZjnpPcksCcpqoZe09QscNFqNSLPZLMrRQYu0rTcXGcfA9Yjtyvg wnClx1Lzzyny8rxp6GJo52T1qkHu8JEfYjGlAswvzq2uyp+UJEKVuyD0DqRi1nVqi71U raxVV42h6QUzSoG5PrvhHCg113YkvYjt6TuT/YuQNfFYgwPbJ+TBZsVe7SsiJtL1Eyq8 bzQTg53uDI6jemW0bA+ioagqS1XNx++a6cGaHRB7n8Shxs465A8gTwgkY4u7wP0w83KI zV8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zxshTx6stXvF0gzFt9CieJtudpSVJAFN4GAo7PPXAeY=; b=UHN8N/4i7zCAuF0ViQn/LAm/IBHJRnnDhlBHT+SXMo5bB9cGqAJ+bZ4NXPEF0HF6R/ dVrNbT82aCnxWTnVv5AQoOSsJ5jtYShCw4RvXu4T7exFTnvCBpfFqLkTL8Iqk5reXg7Q WFIqg/L4MPM9HyIgm+ReAGuFV+8hrUWvkZ9qrjlVATMFVGnu6GcM6FywH3yAIFzZaHJk qIzXysmwWi3Xnd0b4Os31jT88VhcXsbIUOS2gpfHNOjwS/swQnpn3AZZs9PISh5pj5Ic Kxo0RSIXYvx1XaiW2gEcR4hu4HF9pZHEBvEZ3icG5s8lRfS0NSYMqaCypqW65AiCv4eo PvIg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUxCzCvNGNdsmL3aC1JHyHKTDBscHbbF6AdoIjt76DqKJAw0fis 5rP6cMxoSjZ1AHSPMVgwDD4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy4DgOPcIKXIuor/kpWrk/kYDURqMHh8Kn6p8hym97cK5shlon8eroSczQUBSEWdbDzz8CSfA== X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3b07:: with SMTP id i7mr16005689ioa.230.1553775037717; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 05:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.10.8] (cpe-65-25-53-210.neo.res.rr.com. [65.25.53.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d143sm1839252itd.44.2019.03.28.05.10.36 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Mar 2019 05:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5C9CB9BE.70009@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 08:10:38 -0400 From: Ernie Luzar User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Huff CC: Zbigniew Komarnicki , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> <23708.17041.352138.623427@jerusalem.litteratus.org> In-Reply-To: <23708.17041.352138.623427@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5FF616D9DE X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GDP22iLP; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of luzar722@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luzar722@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.82 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.83)[ip: (-9.08), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.87), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:10:39 -0000 Robert Huff wrote: > Ernie Luzar writes: > >> Is your em0 built into the motherboard or a plug in board. >> >> My em0 and em1 were built in on the motherboard. Had no problems release >> 9 through 11. For 12.0 started having network problems. Disabled them in >> bios and replaced with PCIE type plug in cards. Every thing back to normal. > > For the record: mine is a two port add-on, about 10 years old. > It is reported by pciconf as: > > em0@pci0:3:6:0: class=0x020000 card=0x10128086 chip=0x10108086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Intel Corporation' > device = '82546EB Gigabit Ethernet Controller (Copper)' > class = network > subclass = ethernet > > As far as I know ... on-board or add-on shouldn't matter. If it > does, and if this has changed from 11 to 12, someone should open a bug > and point to this thread. > > > Respectfully, > > > Robert Huff > > It's not on-board verse plug-in. It's the bus type that is the problem. And it effects more than just em0, xl0 and some others. Bus type PCIE is what newer motherboards use. It's time to update your hardware to something less that 2 years old. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 13:06:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD52155CB2A for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:06:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org [52.28.6.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 273336FB48 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:06:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1553777442; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=Wq0Qkv6UALYeqJsycl+UDUOyKi0nEdPdLYZKDY8Km+ieECEC4b7XmhDiUZ7h1Ybb711rwIRshXUZi wnu39Vds7CAmF1yoyP/FNaf2vXpR4/qCty4REnIhDGRY04JbZN9PSgtdmsaGGsEpN45TZO4kCs21qp ogsGqbt8/SIpc/tjRPombPfcWUYC3IDkMZDh6A7QBzbzRPosi0iw91mRjzgCZtJIq2Htf6M8+9V2uj GlzOS5uNAtYTzsjATboCRxg8CJqPaBXpQShYrbOc/YHWScJiJB5debG1AetIQyTgT+J5YrM19vy9E7 xdSAY6IRdI4qj8vLUn5z2BTt3G0g7tg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:date:message-id:cc: subject:from:to:dkim-signature:from; bh=mEkXS6SqelzBtWNm1L8GdmFxGy6Ew0zDUmDgTJ8kGXg=; b=lmx/mP3lWjQsxOTfVuFuxAea/iwuo7NbC6h3et0MDrQvof6iCzsEnt74yuDBl+ZdymHCNnNIAOnuK XwtKbW853JSjcAfupS8KGjNSMz5uP5W4tI78Rf+abujibnSbdc2mSVDbLNtx0GU/mJVFaoi5par2LN W5ExLd8ikrVPtF/sdGYgwiT4gtRSN3YCeV6b1L7fCF9onsOcAFeBrTSECvML/iAIus7EYpwXw2sape jW6KNrVeOxiQnv7u88SWzd5CNTOMb+BuylTYe+C85sj+O3FH2kldhr7IxRYr+VvT7vfCP+oAYEmBQ9 ieTrw+z8J9/nI5161A9duMmQ3ZUDUAQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.eu.mailhop.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=hedeland.org smtp.remote-ip=81.228.155.78; dmarc=none header.from=hedeland.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:date:message-id:cc: subject:from:to:from; bh=mEkXS6SqelzBtWNm1L8GdmFxGy6Ew0zDUmDgTJ8kGXg=; b=dUafAj1ezjnNt39JGDWjdsUlCCE//pxBW3Z1rDZE5CChDJ2ThDGUxjX7B9XlsZApwlCZ+/0+XTZYB 2JEhDs8JJr1U5WcqFJDnhin67OUdvrJNt9mdHz/dA/sJaoXhn7aDGC3FYk6wK0hQ7+leXsoYFV2FQp hjt2Lf84p8ZVWuTcFq//b2SOoz2tT4Tko3KCqX5FHgK/Y4rrUogEiXw8ybgJ6BF2tZcjkdZzMPKqRo PfAoINVEh2SdsG+gZVA8RMz6UI9M043+mEW8cnWfS80Iwxax8OqADlGKsd4Pf/vd+TYmcf0o6fMdKu mKsFfPop5viJL9Rjr7dgru3aFF9cw7Q== X-MHO-RoutePath: cGVyaGVkZWxhbmQ= X-MHO-User: 16af662b-5158-11e9-908b-352056dbf2de X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 81.228.155.78 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from hedeland.org (unknown [81.228.155.78]) by outbound3.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 16af662b-5158-11e9-908b-352056dbf2de; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:50:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x2SCocjN053181 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:50:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org From: Per Hedeland Subject: How to force host mode for RPi Zero USB? Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <222dd329-e0d5-31ad-512a-898040c44c1c@hedeland.org> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:50:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 273336FB48 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=outbound.mailhop.org header.s=dkim-high header.b=dUafAj1e X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.54 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[outbound.mailhop.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[hedeland.org,mx2.mailhop.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.961,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.28)[asn: 16509(-1.31), country: US(-0.07)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:52.28.0.0/16, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[outbound.mailhop.org:s=dkim-high]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.155.228.81.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.6.28.52.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.20.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:06:57 -0000 Hi, I have a 4-port USB hub that attaches directly to the RPi Zero board: http://www.uugear.com/product/zero4u/ . This seems to work fine on FreeBSD - as long as I have an OTG adapter/cable connected to the then otherwise unused data port on the Zero, which is a quite annoying requirement IMHO. Without it, the FreeBSD USB stack uses device mode (as described in the handbook), and (of course) doesn't even see the add-on hub. According to the hub documentation (http://www.uugear.com/doc/Zero4U_UserManual.pdf), "Linux" uses host mode by default, and requries a DT overlay to use device mode. The FreeBSD automatic switching is arguably more elegant, but is IMHO inferior in a case like this (it's of course also impossible to make any USB devices work when connected to the Zero data port *without* an OTG adapter/cable). So, as $SUBJECT - surely there is a way to force host mode? --Per Hedeland From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 13:41:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4725E155D647 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:41:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Received: from atlas.fritz.box (unknown [IPv6:2001:985:87e:1:20d:b9ff:fe42:685c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "atlas", Issuer "atlas" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A60471B42 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:41:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Received: from beastie.fritz.box (beastie.fritz.box [192.168.66.176]) by atlas.fritz.box (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x2SDfA4w019432; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:41:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 To: Zbigniew Komarnicki Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Huff References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> From: Hans Ottevanger Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:41:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:41:17 -0000 On 3/27/19 7:23 PM, Zbigniew Komarnicki wrote: > On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:29:16 -0400 > Robert Huff wrote: >> For comparison: >> >> em0: port 0xe800-0xe83f mem 0xfebe0000-0xfebfffff irq 21 at device 6.0 on pci3 >> em0: Using 1024 tx descriptors and 1024 rx descriptors >> em0: Ethernet address: 00:04:23:e5:50:6c >> em0: netmap queues/slots: TX 1/1024, RX 1/1024 >> >> Is iflib loaded? Other than that I have no idea. >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> Robert Huff > > Thanks, but I do not know if iflib is loaded. I simply burn the iso from > https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/12.0/FreeBSD-12.0-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso > on DVD and install this OS with default settings (I use auto ZFS on whole disk). Thats all. > I'm still novice user in BSD world. I can add that this computer simply work on Debian 9 > or Windows 7 without any problem with this network card. So the question is why this network card > do not works on fresh install on FreeBSD 12.0? > > Thanks in advance. > > Zbigniew > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > This suspiciously looks like bug report 235246. See: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235246 The issue seems to be resolved in 12-STABLE. In your case maybe you could work around the issue by disabling msix, as suggested in the comments to the bug report. I.e. put hw.pci.enable_msix=0 in /boot/loader.conf and reboot the system. Hope this helps. Kind regards, Hans Ottevanger From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 14:44:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A745B155F808; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:44:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD12C74D2F; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:43:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [176.74.212.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D03332603F3; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 15:43:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: How to force host mode for RPi Zero USB? To: Per Hedeland , freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <222dd329-e0d5-31ad-512a-898040c44c1c@hedeland.org> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 15:43:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <222dd329-e0d5-31ad-512a-898040c44c1c@hedeland.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DD12C74D2F X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 88.99.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.914,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.21)[ip: (-9.42), ipnet: 88.99.0.0/16(-4.68), asn: 24940(-1.93), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:44:00 -0000 On 3/28/19 1:50 PM, Per Hedeland wrote: > Hi, > > I have a 4-port USB hub that attaches directly to the RPi Zero board: > http://www.uugear.com/product/zero4u/ . This seems to work fine on > FreeBSD - as long as I have an OTG adapter/cable connected to the then > otherwise unused data port on the Zero, which is a quite annoying > requirement IMHO. Without it, the FreeBSD USB stack uses device mode > (as described in the handbook), and (of course) doesn't even see the > add-on hub. > > According to the hub documentation > (http://www.uugear.com/doc/Zero4U_UserManual.pdf), "Linux" uses host > mode by default, and requries a DT overlay to use device mode. The > FreeBSD automatic switching is arguably more elegant, but is IMHO > inferior in a case like this (it's of course also impossible to make > any USB devices work when connected to the Zero data port *without* an > OTG adapter/cable). > > So, as $SUBJECT - surely there is a way to force host mode? > Hi, You can add a "dr_mode" property to the DWC OTG driver instance and set it to "host". --HPS From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 16:35:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F491562470 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 16:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from outbound2k.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2k.ore.mailhop.org [54.148.219.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 600B1807FC for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 16:34:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1553789928; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=wB0BwRd+oDl/+KMYsHiZTG/dHvG9VtHs+oOt4DvZ5fBht8NaOhUeqtC2GuSTRxzwmPKvhCNG186wd Xm/V071BjWDXDwKQ1+Uxay9aNM8IjaBjNsS30kYKWZ8MaMHvkaG05i6cwP5vT6tFsGPKHCoyB2b3zv oTw5COJFCEz1AjmJniA7S/iklvPuD/A1787O3v09sddb295N2RyGa3BaKpigUbIj8FSqPTVtvcdJOa HcINio2lW7H2yLYjqSn0LlIFU36ziIE5SrMO/yVvaHSpIctjbnkeLtqVvyczt6cqy4I/pKaMak+ghw LebKjWOEROaHf1gbFTovK3lRCa3Hvcg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject:dkim-signature:from; bh=SKIPT2fax7cQD6JobdiUZNDzIe4YN//cOTmFhf8snfQ=; b=BTUZcU4pmhWOGruqgy1xZoqIHcd3p64w/NOGY+d60yYYsiHFq2hS0jn2eTFfh56mpXQe7Llf+g96G jfYebHT09G9R+QeO3zHRXEm5Rsb8yFxGLrhw/Cy3QoIgjROUQ1bdzY/y0/VHNJzWWrT/trRiAHwaKK 0SpVdLuomqnYjK2KPNTurMeGLN21qLdisCNL5jeBPWqwOOD9WJUIiF9feGqu2WqxzMTZfl8ZkHSEYU cM4mX3wLSVHCBhprV1duUv4cg/o/rcANf5xn7RxlczzzcAQ4Wc5pLONcCA/krr1fNxq9a1hPyUcHQ+ xd54gyI10jlOtwl4Wg/94KfxSO5OShg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=hedeland.org smtp.remote-ip=81.228.155.78; dmarc=none header.from=hedeland.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject:from; bh=SKIPT2fax7cQD6JobdiUZNDzIe4YN//cOTmFhf8snfQ=; b=UfWIeQL452+ZoUVZBfmBxH50tyKgSxSi1NPigjbJ5V3DvLmCuBSPBrHeM6kxz1fRrHWkCciqCX9oq Mg0wOzBI7RB/ZtXotGRrGJ7WnPnTXWicBAIQduUNrGxGt1DR93OxTkHgAmVB6T8NtOYlVCcgURdkEK 2JBFffIb9q7sd8t/RK8TBCzWV4Cc6DPBSVaciso9qj7RqMXzkato8UkCu1rSH6sClbARzXOFYhGq6U o1/zKhfZqodRFbm8CPzaDw2YzFwRK3qtYBmRbqjUcmLvc26BMYziLVL9/vqFY+CCUU1W7JBoa0tkKZ ghKUq/nZmciQuvTztfE9W3Az33Ols5g== X-MHO-RoutePath: cGVyaGVkZWxhbmQ= X-MHO-User: 271714d8-5175-11e9-befd-af03bedce89f X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 81.228.155.78 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from hedeland.org (unknown [81.228.155.78]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 271714d8-5175-11e9-befd-af03bedce89f; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 16:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x2SGIfFo053624 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:18:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: How to force host mode for RPi Zero USB? To: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <222dd329-e0d5-31ad-512a-898040c44c1c@hedeland.org> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: <7f6d9c20-42b0-1f47-dc49-2394c3da7cab@hedeland.org> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:18:41 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 600B1807FC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=outbound.mailhop.org header.s=dkim-high header.b=UfWIeQL4 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[outbound.mailhop.org:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: hedeland.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.952,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.155.228.81.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; IP_SCORE(-1.24)[ipnet: 54.148.0.0/15(-4.81), asn: 16509(-1.31), country: US(-0.07)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.148.0.0/15, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[outbound.mailhop.org:s=dkim-high]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[64.219.148.54.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.20.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 16:35:00 -0000 On 2019-03-28 15:43, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 3/28/19 1:50 PM, Per Hedeland wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have a 4-port USB hub that attaches directly to the RPi Zero board: >> http://www.uugear.com/product/zero4u/ . This seems to work fine on >> FreeBSD - as long as I have an OTG adapter/cable connected to the then >> otherwise unused data port on the Zero, which is a quite annoying >> requirement IMHO. Without it, the FreeBSD USB stack uses device mode >> (as described in the handbook), and (of course) doesn't even see the >> add-on hub. >> >> According to the hub documentation >> (http://www.uugear.com/doc/Zero4U_UserManual.pdf), "Linux" uses host >> mode by default, and requries a DT overlay to use device mode. The >> FreeBSD automatic switching is arguably more elegant, but is IMHO >> inferior in a case like this (it's of course also impossible to make >> any USB devices work when connected to the Zero data port *without* an >> OTG adapter/cable). >> >> So, as $SUBJECT - surely there is a way to force host mode? >> > > Hi, > > You can add a "dr_mode" property to the DWC OTG driver instance and set it to "host". Uh.... - OK, so I looked at the dwc2-overlay.dts that Linux uses, stripped it down to what I guessed was the bare minimum, changed its dr_mode = "otg" to dr_mode = "host": -------------------------------- /dts-v1/; /plugin/; /{ compatible = "brcm,bcm2708"; fragment@0 { target = <&usb>; __overlay__ { dr_mode = "host"; }; }; }; -------------------------------- - compiled it, put it in /boot/msdos/overlays, and added a dtoverlay= line for it in /boot/msdos/config.txt - and it worked!:-) Thanks a lot! Um, I don't suppose there is a simpler way, like adding a line to /boot/loader.conf? --Per From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Mar 28 20:37:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC5D1568872 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:37:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 140DF8ACEA for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:37:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail17.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.17]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id F01C660006 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:37:05 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Was PCC ever considered? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Message-ID: X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 140DF8ACEA X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net,spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net,spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.74)[-0.735,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[195.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.27)[ip: (-3.69), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.47), asn: 29169(-1.19), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[195.183.70.217.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:37:16 -0000 Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating the switch to Clang/LLVM. If PCC was considered but rejected, may I know the reasons and rationale for the same? Thanks, ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 01:50:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8141552675 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:50:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net (relay10.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 620426F004 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:50:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0CE0C240004 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:50:43 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:20:43 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: eee-dee anyone? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Message-ID: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 620426F004 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.178.230 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.43 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[230.178.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.69)[ip: (-0.79), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.47), asn: 29169(-1.19), country: FR(-0.01)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.67)[0.665,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:50:54 -0000 Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 01:56:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9E41552BAD for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:56:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (relay12.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 776156F546 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:56:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 111B520000A for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:55:47 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:25:45 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Message-ID: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 776156F546 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.178.232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[232.178.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.33)[0.333,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; IP_SCORE(-0.71)[ip: (-0.85), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.49), asn: 29169(-1.21), country: FR(-0.01)]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:56:17 -0000 Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports collection? I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we need to still rely on that? I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:00:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF621552DF0 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:00:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 897AA6F6D7 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:00:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 58DEBC0004 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:59:58 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:29:58 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Why is Sendmail still around? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Message-ID: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 897AA6F6D7 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.86 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.63)[ip: (-5.47), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.49), asn: 29169(-1.20), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.18)[0.182,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[198.183.70.217.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:00:27 -0000 I am led to believe that Sendmail is still around in the install image as well as the base install because some need a way to send out mails without having to install a package/port. Can't the same be achieved with "msmtp" which is lighter and easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. Hope FreeBSD isn't hanging on to Sendmail due to some political issue like being the baby of one of the lead developers / founders! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:04:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D02D15530E2 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:04:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A0566FA9B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id k189so522545qkc.0 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:04:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nYmCzIbDUzyPvZCHQ3/WY+G7AouJZr7Xk/+X33ahWas=; b=y8F8KhOJ2Uf+crgyQjEZb3zUFs7wlD8ti9aYaDhWfkJQIF4VzDb58rFU0PJQp3IZOT ZTn1SsY9eg7Ugt9gd6cYSc27nYaGTOHJJ2zmlRka8rwBqIjQvQd963Vsyn8gst7Kvk0T BpQz6qf7H3R5auZgNCRulomjTtpJKsBj64BXdPQBsA2S+1hdtO3JfIWGVofa0hHqLt7s acPvQmEM8GXofUa6b2kzvPl1HmHrtmbuv4+bJNKODFpvFJAU8SOFg/aP2yQl+5eT3eIm l1eZ4i5LZ3f+BdHA0bd8VOFW2PDIIwf1saxZNEUOJpqxtTWCXK6S9c5Cl1r+Kzm+Pctn v/jA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nYmCzIbDUzyPvZCHQ3/WY+G7AouJZr7Xk/+X33ahWas=; b=SQa3qL9e7ZL6IqjbyIZeDPtWLV0TGRS+yIU62XyoVmEunUhxNurKphsBDNt+5aXfyP +DO2RWlF77IGuimYk+44lFYv971YnAD7BfADE/DkvEAZ8YX79RhOocK08CfrcBTDWetp qFaGqVGLf0Q2fl+a6o7VZ5BuyfVVFWAdcu2X262ypzVuXOW/I+ZgAXRpBaq8CJ/igT8b xKzxzs7dskw7t2xeO1lPjftVqrFnE/jwzo4ifrKNzbrEYOTro9uoQ3zuiahTcGE+FM2G zMwwMRfM15jPuZcIqFvZibpA6JRP/ITS8BuffFK5nx8k8DVv7LBP7tGhh8HEoEcX+JrK hriQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX47kmbsC54L6/58m9ruOi0R6jJUU4jnXmTLnxpn3p9A6/HqCs/ 3yg9zH/2rH5C1fyoL3FwJSyOzduxOcaM+xyBxP/zfw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw6Gx0z8CfAfYdjO2m+zHvbcCzPGh0tOr27Cobl9tCoy+WrAQdi1mbZth/RhW/oVfQlNk2XUhKVaKBMdIyGs/I= X-Received: by 2002:a37:69c3:: with SMTP id e186mr32510117qkc.308.1553825040700; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:04:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> In-Reply-To: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> From: Michael Sierchio Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:03:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8A0566FA9B X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=y8F8KhOJ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.390,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-2.71)[ip: (-8.44), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.87), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.07)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:04:02 -0000 *kudzu@hearst:/bin 130>* ll -i | grep csh 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 csh* 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 tcsh* On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 6:59 PM Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > collection? > I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we need > to still rely on that? > I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full as > "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" and > "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahma said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:06:58 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5C51553218 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:06:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66D6A6FC2F for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:06:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C79DBE0009; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:06:49 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:36:49 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Michael Sierchio Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Message-ID: <695ab639fc872647cef88e09f8e4162f@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 66D6A6FC2F X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.196 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[196.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.68)[-0.681,0]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; IP_SCORE(-1.33)[ip: (-3.91), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.51), asn: 29169(-1.22), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:06:58 -0000 Couldn't you have simply done; ls -lh *csh instead? Also you can see they are the same binary. Doesn't matter that it is small, why have stray stuff lying around? On 2019-03-29 07:33 AM, Michael Sierchio wrote: > KUDZU@HEARST:/BIN 130> ll -i | grep csh > > 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 csh* > > 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 tcsh* > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 6:59 PM Mayuresh Kathe > wrote: > >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports >> collection? >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we >> need >> to still rely on that? >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked >> it, >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full >> as >> "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" >> and >> "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > -- > > "Well," Brahma said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is > no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five > hundred." > > - The Mahābhārata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:25:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F03715539F9 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADF117071C for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:25:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9171C40009; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:25:17 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:55:17 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <20190329032106.520c79ea.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190329032106.520c79ea.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: <9d761b9644a40e2186ce5e7dd525bfee@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ADF117071C X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.194 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.27 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[194.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.915,0]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.94)[ip: (-1.98), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.51), asn: 29169(-1.22), country: FR(-0.01)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:25:48 -0000 On 2019-03-29 07:51 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC >> was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating >> the >> switch to Clang/LLVM. > > When FreeBSD evolved, it was primarily GCC that has been used > as the system compiler, so it became the standard. With Clang/LLVM > offering both evolution in compiler design and implementation, as > well as a licensing difference to GPL-based GCC, it was chosen > to be the current default. > > I think PCC wasn't on the map yet at that time... ;-) PCC wasn't on the FreeBSD map! Right? PCC has existed for a long time. >> If PCC was considered but rejected, may I know the reasons and >> rationale >> for the same? > > PCC seems to gain more attraction, primarily due to OpenBSD. > I'm not sure if this project is still alive, but I found this > statement by A. Magnusson: > > The big benefit of it (apart from that it's BSD licensed, > for license geeks :-) is that it is fast, 5-10 times faster > than gcc, while still producing reasonable code [...] > it is also quite simple to port. > > Source: > > http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20070915195203&mode=expanded The project is very much alive, albeit moving quite slowly as all of the developers work only in their spare time. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:26:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C80E1553A40 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:26:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C8F470751 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:26:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MhDN4-1gWWtk3OcM-00eHv2; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:21:07 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:21:06 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? Message-Id: <20190329032106.520c79ea.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Z7bQnFf40PmK9NSwb803garVxI3Md+NuO/NGTPIrpaM2oSjR1fB SyLNqA6egfLD+Q8pSqsWuzTwtlTbHLwJfWmAZE36p5502HflCLrD2QW6INL5G2OghNBRg/T BbK8nwooGbqkAPv9+4Uwjww7hwuBmi0IWDPHbeKmm1c85sLWJR2Io8AkcQncyqISMZ1H9b/ eYpovD/evgq/9pppatXPg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:oY7Z0n8Lp94=:ynVhkiOjvIvU92afNNc4TT kgdjIlQXAf0M0MGQvkJCbfeIR7xzRIXI4ZpYE7bxxOiPtNcHqXxfvcu7PGUMhBV5DHWTO+oqB NugiTYJ523n3U2S6j7VeoAkPFQ+21yS/ASVeYASeGDkuoXSAqrOGMjKCn5Ynl5zRk2d6mbPI0 MCMOhcwI4Ke7Kfn80MSoYX3DwKlXeZJUkQHnN1XWVJ9stYTLIGb69mk/K/r7LMJRYnwGDZHro pRGddYCRIXdMR2sxq26BEMkdDs7n6csxJV8cgZd5YN1/kMEqvktpYTvJs5Ci+CfIRN0JwASWS RjpglVN0mGXERHGkTq8wj2RX0S7Dx96y37QdLnEcY8F4QEbNUSMSDXG80OkkC5/0pLhcAUnJw 6dJauSacm9OCtrXPl9pJvXDsR07SltFM6RlAkcMZJsxxr0RSaB/2fZZ8AUDj82gUKUVf0j2AR 60wqakLO2TwPItsDIMONR+7QbkyG69ZXzx7uoz/6zUEXR8TeYONgITF/rhXsh3Wbq1RmoiWeg BDdRxO1wz5TJxI+UPzVmcmej8fwGhLLMa82imqQXOpfz5h7dySl77Qr18I2zbMixLjtOK2xFy rRG3X7Uk5zTUj11p/UfEgo23aa98TKre6pDWJ8guHnSiV3Dc1Vh9lX/iw+B1HrLgwFOH2W5Qa cd6s9ly6Y/UhO6g9GQTVsxdyRxnVhaWvfB5jk6F1IxDnoMRm7AUXEZ+gy6/5i5dld1vJfYTUZ hsXEs9VYWGfheAVoSt7AVHjvSxGjDbL8dRRn0TgnCRtT3EI312ovwuPhisM= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1C8F470751 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.19 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.91)[ip: (4.24), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.32), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.97)[0.969,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.93)[0.925,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:26:24 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC > was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating the > switch to Clang/LLVM. When FreeBSD evolved, it was primarily GCC that has been used as the system compiler, so it became the standard. With Clang/LLVM offering both evolution in compiler design and implementation, as well as a licensing difference to GPL-based GCC, it was chosen to be the current default. I think PCC wasn't on the map yet at that time... ;-) > If PCC was considered but rejected, may I know the reasons and rationale > for the same? PCC seems to gain more attraction, primarily due to OpenBSD. I'm not sure if this project is still alive, but I found this statement by A. Magnusson: The big benefit of it (apart from that it's BSD licensed, for license geeks :-) is that it is fast, 5-10 times faster than gcc, while still producing reasonable code [...] it is also quite simple to port. Source: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20070915195203&mode=expanded -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:29:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734751553C86 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:29:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E0CF708EF for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:29:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MPaQU-1hNX4k2AgE-00Mfi4; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:24:16 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:24:16 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? Message-Id: <20190329032416.61dd677d.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:iOngYo4EqxduGYa/SJHRnwQOgVuaBXrfUbfCBoxKkF5BjmSiDHz TvbuQ9XU+J5rzkE/0pPSu3w2gZfomeUAC8VMD9KQm0Gr44LMuZvtOPRjQLaqywuGHhPvqJL ltffuHek1NC+N2XZ4z6ospLlBOtU0K4IADl1EX0JPVLoYWXLCE5W2cw+9zqm80mBPoB5kQT 1NvoyZodGDUs8J4rVyVcA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:nvG0GzSeY3U=:wfQIG69Wrevl3lgKKltGkR YiCGep+nD/NSSpG8CqUJNZTe0t87571FtzT2WO3pz1RFh/OLYfYerMI9vzubNPAEE2RqCJKbT YvUH8KvP6lF20OD7Y1KgSsiXRwJbWPZdRRMJzt3Y57i9sTJifC69t2vZLumnDiKr3QCjpTLLy vsvFcZahx+37wMLby//bdYs0fv13jhs7bZQpZ/wl25KAMU4y+oOzvPG/FYhKqrknDvhXuWXs0 j5LDWe8vbYcgpoiyRaBvoeuHt52IKkIJdDNGLjYmo3CLXZup0cYGGLvYjeiLLmKz9cYuySr9i a1TKKBRr2I7R3TjW8ROQOm0eBX8sGOKfiLnCIrP6kWchSr9bax1+pXYlyoUyLPsAW36xWDRwd u4UxjqyZEZCdegJ0qFtqhBsyLCJPZRmeJ6pQUKMCpw0SULfaH8iMZKPKUVGCxHOVqhTgn9j0x Y0agMugUXpTVaX3lf8C1yKZ7OiOczhp5fC+YOi3ykPG8M1m5E/Mj2MgZKTrBdhQpLhBKDsGJC rpj449cHyvvOnULR0ATjO1YE5y5sC7LgoDS40RWsh1hrackeivY6nXZPJQgjuULlW4DQ6d7AN l4LkHPMA1FpAMf5Vt8dktTidDM1RP2Niiy0m3iG/6RKX/6DXjmYLET6X5ZWzAYO4LC/9dteQI +f2Q1JP8kRPkj5cT1tmYKZtGD6fF7/C10QkIL8Ham9XHfRmUtGnrfzH6S4ki5IoXl21Ju1CzL 1gV2HXaXphhH8qiWQWGO4BrKAyWSL8PCu+f/Dri+QIaWPVK26/X0YAe6qTs= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6E0CF708EF X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.86 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.60)[ip: (2.70), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.32), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.93)[0.929,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.94)[0.945,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:29:36 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:20:43 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? According to historical "man ed", ed is THE STANDARD EDITOR. :-) It's big advantage is the ability to be scripted. It can be controlled from a shell script to create and change text files, which is comparable to stream editors like sed or the ex mode in vi (which, as a program, is THE VISUAL EDITOR). I'm not sure people actually use this particular software, but many sysadmins I know have had their share of ed during their professional education. I'm familiar with the basics myself, but I haven't found a case where I would have wanted to actually _use_ ed. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:28:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9A11553C16 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:28:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@jeays.ca) Received: from beaver.sibername.com (beaver.sibername.com [205.204.89.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABFD970887 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:28:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@jeays.ca) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeays.ca; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WWCe5KLW26PlDbHSxTdc4RsOH3gf+iMVnlGN9IM8XP0=; b=P5ce/KXw/hYywXFqyAeZyD2ycj cJuGx34QWSgZAkP70dPkZsYQRFKsiUbzBBGwACNvAazUqXoY1bZJxW0cu2BMOgUMDEvl3zBfkdOc2 Z51eG5nKEOKrGEiv9O/OhMNFx; Received: from cpebc4dfbbee823-cmbc4dfbbee820.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ([174.119.103.59]:40266 helo=[192.168.0.2]) by beaver.sibername.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h9hFz-0003pj-AI for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:28:36 -0400 Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> From: Mike Jeays Message-ID: <8ed6766a-33d9-5057-10b0-c2c3b631cdad@jeays.ca> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:28:34 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - beaver.sibername.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jeays.ca X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: beaver.sibername.com: authenticated_id: mike@jeays.ca X-Authenticated-Sender: beaver.sibername.com: mike@jeays.ca X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ABFD970887 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=jeays.ca header.s=default header.b=P5ce/KXw X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.51 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[greylisted]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[jeays.ca:+]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.02)[country: CA(-0.09)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10929, ipnet:205.204.64.0/19, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[mike@jeays.ca]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.81)[-0.805,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[jeays.ca:s=default]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jeays.ca]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.08)[0.077,0]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[mike@jeays.ca]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:28:53 -0000 On 2019-03-28 9:50 p.m., Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" It might occasionally be useful on a dysfunctional system that will not start properly, when it might be the only editor available. Other than this, I can't imagine any practical use for it. If vi is too hard, there is always nano. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:32:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C631553FBD for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82E1070C76 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mi4un-1gVhef3Ooj-00e3xE; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:31:56 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:31:56 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190329033156.4b17c18b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qWuOXVHq2zKBIXV3quYEvSe2HfSGpyGTyNbRPeXV5V7Nh5QQqCA /JNqSEfv6O405FGPNG9RcRjvIvDzQHxgwwa/5Dfo1LRNXXTYnw3f8906vvb6sFB40NX5Hzf A5AaejirKUHYaXJ4+hfCNJeQMOZwmQttAnmg5eyxrx6A3y3UKLEEwL9h8M6V3Y9QCW3qlMM G93LXZHuB04iexjjsgGMA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:W+kKlVmjG/I=:IQ0lYmHmqMmPrCIXQ9i48g IirzqYXMRyLwvaJJPKCeYgAtspvUEvtHIcYBkbK6RbrfiBhxTeTgD4H4OlIvIWwyNY+Mf4lZv i2SsyrO3udPR4CJKEjt0RFMSX6kptswVXVKTEq/txP/krnsPoUmYE8p4LrbjHpeV4Lsm7uZUy Mhg19em5AhHaKorxN6XSrQAXF19iDzpzf52OwYZF6KQ6sRl6qG/rJw93UtK8trvgxA7ouDcFj 9PTrYtI4Y3uTTmbOywbrkmvG2tF06daca5/N3yVI/BvEIc0Wz1wOlbyNmHQ2uXutSpkeW/EH9 1JRqY794rSxt26ePUSpE3hbFMFv4zorC8Kfxb2qejznDSx+N1Prb9v+z82Ki3lrR/DizaCkcj zna7QgebscBgmExqdONW6dMnkm0uagcLmInQRNoMrpKo/Zav50hIEm6TDHZ7u9weg/RUw1l4o iyE43997nEJxbP11aDGcIfcPvXhMPIUomq1q4dUgmzhMs4n/bgsOjx9ouqqvSJqHEHgXmhjRR ML/MRdVNRJsEbDtuogWX5H+oq1bLz9uJeZt4AY+PVbVPZwJP1VMffAxipQ7+HbwuWsd+3tzVJ Dbhj+OrAqxx6rpux75ev+MEE7pWkBoFYTKK8NpOXYkjfLcX2gvgR+067uS0usNn8MZWbTjPb2 ne9RFc7de/9iCXWzLDWHUVm2SBa/Tdpqhdgyjhcp+UI94ZlJewIKBBRZlriKgtGpZtp/b3mnr IB+PEqM9ZzLSi9NpqfIrsi30rezZ2Mcdp5aUZHOQBhQ216kIbREj9zWABtM= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 82E1070C76 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.92 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.76)[0.757,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.64)[0.637,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.963,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ip: (0.57), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:32:01 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:25:45 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > collection? Because it is the system's default interactive shell. > I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we need > to still rely on that? There are users who prefer the C shell - as an interactive shell, always keep in mind! - over bash. Others use zsh (which I'd even call "the most professional shell", even though bash users might feel offended), and others prefer the ksh. All those advanced shells are available through the ports collection. > I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full as > "bash". None of those cases is intended. The Bourne shell, sh (on FreeBSD, technically: the Almquist shell, ash) is the system's default scripting shell, and used interactively only in an emergency, and even then it often just starts another shell. System services heavily rely on the standardized behaviour it implements. Due to that kind of use, its interactive features are next to non-existent, and nobody cares, because it doesn't matter. The extended features of bash, often called bashisms, are usually non-POSIX extensions that sh does not have. Scripts that use them will need to require bash as a runtime dependency. This is why csh does not feel like sh - it's a totally different thing. The C shell implements a specific subset and "lookalikes" from the C programming language and is primarily intended for interactive use. It's scripting use is considered harmful and should not be attempted by any halfway sane being. ;-) However, some users prefer the way this shell works interactively over how bash does it, and the way it can be configured and accomodated to specific completition scenarios. > To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" and > "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. I have not yet understood this differentiation, because the system's csh _is_ a tcsh. Maybe this just installs some additional symlink? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:35:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B3F155427C for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:35:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81FF270EFA for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:35:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id z11so881876wmi.0 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:35:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TW77og2nXVEODyM082w1GdN1b1VToNgEkC7iK1Zwjpo=; b=qKfg0WjHIJQJHiEzogtf2fP3dr0dVx5K4Bi32vNI5ef4GD6sAlvxmSmbJpCwKHJVid tOAauDDBU2Ol+2FyhEmxVuNFguYnDz6EB0pIranU55pUpHZwxRn8+rFaWyNmFcgmOCRF 2iM5eVEBQgPBSM+ozfPIQkSSZYYclFc96KOdPqKhpOHde6nP74auKxV8ox2n6GBL/xCu ammr4KtTxnyGk2D5PAYfgZRzdn0TO35gO0oOf49s79dshUjeEnVnmQl7kFjCvTc7FkxX tLejqx9rccUMQwb9CPn1M+szz23eh/huK5mmzY0FpZ0fZRc3oBhZWq6JhVuLGNmpiznB WdbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUqu5aiPbUbq6k+xCC4OGCNlit30QZmhOPKn3we5N+zFbdf9+7o mqkyjFSHLs+AHyYtQF9yke7qlHjwnfA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzcydPz4J+o1cU+NavAsrQSLuFcksJi2kSmjS+wItTdRvOqkT2duJGl8pmccLhgRz0YYjb9gQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c4c3:: with SMTP id u186mr1832741wmf.138.1553826933933; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([90.195.198.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u19sm1170535wmc.7.2019.03.28.19.35.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:35:28 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-ID: <20190329023528.5866f5b1@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <695ab639fc872647cef88e09f8e4162f@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <695ab639fc872647cef88e09f8e4162f@kathe.in> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 81FF270EFA X-Spamd-Bar: ------ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.77 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[21.198.195.90.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.79)[ip: (-9.37), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.39), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:35:36 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:36:49 +0530 Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Couldn't you have simply done; > ls -lh *csh > instead? ls -lh strongly suggests they are the same file, but ls -i shows that they have the same inode and so are hard-linked. > Doesn't matter that it is small, why have stray stuff lying around? > >> "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" > >> and > >> "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. Just because they are the implemented in the same binary doesn't mean that they behave the same when run as csh and tcsh. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:41:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6EB1554A1D for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:41:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7207C71645 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MhlbM-1gVyux3cw4-00dldF; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:41:24 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:41:23 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329034123.33357629.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FyuIB15Uk2Qton8hpHLFjGo3tq0Qh8oC+EPjdqdFZDNbHQdgC38 oba/5zy7Uq4RJ91TCpCGBIBFF4raGQlkc2Q+QfNS2DhO8VatYxZCzNzdoRIvtHYsUirZMbz n98jG5wlJ+Zp0eNsB0Wo/NnJzCVkvpXs9NvS7A+cZjS2vOEEbNJsAS6ufJUrTlwv+1hOvah T6SZVy7KXX747ZKEZJo9w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:oJm/l+Lqavc=:gLJFbRuUypA7T51EJqKAEi 8X7txpFRSSM6h2bz6HA0R30lQG9pPwTH9qBdfg3/4NeRKNQ4nN+694lDUpTnDVW1peWCINrpF B5mAgixmKO3EwZuzlINMs5/tBunZX8EKH8933nizd4GTlkm2sCDSvNfMhaxUI+a/dRVQn3a7E v57+yakIuUHYz0T0AXQDDf0vsrbauoRN6APwk4D5P0FZLZZIx/rC+xVOGOhYAPtToGRI8AIIu J601jZ1AsZPBGFZhZmcUceJz2aNa2rGYGKc+qSfI5Lx+m7ojjeoUqVvdCGs8LP3Dk4vhtRnRf A0RWWsJIsAo10QiHjMY2r2Y6BcrLiGFI8oaG9VjdYr8wasQ/O94NmA295ZVUS9WOGMkIX7cy0 7Jt+eQkk2iYDSez1lksqsoS1Xm/FXG1Mb7tp71EzYHduzXWspxBPTTo9WTotnsTtmQSkyt5u4 poGPMuAxDvcXCRvO83hG4QuK3vq6JH5IGL0n2xh1rRqhC6sHYoRDAymYy8SPGPFkO7jUBjVhf 6MWWCYjthUPXiC7bX/Ip6eSw3C+9HcQXSYtWwakf3ogsDNe7Ec6eYIdwNoU047xNuSAiiL735 FHbnWJmXNYlS+cQhjFJZpP+0NxXVQbRxnjmQABKnUSmT0x4tWeTdD6rA2Yud0J40vNA2OxTcn IbGrV/Fv6QNUllVnVoIlUro13siEbH2Mx0GanqTfs4evVQ1h4u/uYZF8fyOVXWZye5RxSoaFO ZGFjuivQVddS5uxZq0VjgW8dt41+dHJFVDelUFSbPZwSV+drLNpEFd2PoKU= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7207C71645 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.18 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.88)[ip: (4.12), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.92)[0.921,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.983,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:41:28 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:29:58 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > I am led to believe that Sendmail is still around in the install image > as well as the base install because some need a way to send out mails > without having to install a package/port. No. The sendmail's primary (!) purpose on a UNIX system (and in this case, on FreeBSD), is the "intra-system mail delivery", i. e. the communication of programs to users. Things in /etc/periodic as well as user cron entries typically use this mechanism to inform the administrator or particular users. This mechanism can be easily configured if you need something differing from the default setup. Sending mail out of the system ("inter-system mail delivery", to follow the analogy opened above) is also possible, either using a mail relay (the "SmartHost" feature) or acting as a real MTA. This makes it easy for the user to send mail independently of the program: mail, mailx, or a GUI client: The messages are quickly (!) put into the system's queue, and the system takes care of it. No annoying IMAP or SMTP interactive "waiting bar" dialog that blocks your workflow, no waiting for some foreground process to finish. This setup also reports back errors to the user in case this should happen. It's even possible to have automated mechanisms (programs and shell scripts) use this facility: You can pipe anything to the system mail program. For example, % ls -laR /export | mail -s "Exported files" bob@example.com can fulfill Bob's request for a list of all files currently in the /export subtree. No need to take screenshots from a GUI file manager, import them into a web mailer, wait for transfer encoding and so on... :-) As you can see, sendmail is a multi-purpose (!) tool. Check /etc/defaults/rc.conf for sendmail options. > Can't the same be achieved > with "msmtp" which is lighter and easier to configure for simple tasks > than Sendmail. The question is: Can msmtp do everything that sendmail can? There are still many sendmail installations online, even though today today, postfix and exim are often considered superior, and I'd even say they are therefore used more often. > Hope FreeBSD isn't hanging on to Sendmail due to some > political issue like being the baby of one of the lead developers / > founders! No, I think it's the consideration of the implemented features and the ability of integration into the system that keeps sendmail in its current place. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 02:56:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E2415553EB for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BBA771F67 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:56:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MDyc8-1hHRS62stA-009z7p; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:56:38 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:56:38 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Michael Sierchio Cc: mayuresh@kathe.in, FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... 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So a call to "csh" could cause the program to do things differently than if it was called by "tcsh". Of course this also applies to _any_ programs, being part of the OS or being installed by ports. Sidenote: If the C shell would be removed from the system, and a port would be needed, the system's default install would not contain an interactive shell. Alternatives: a) Make bash the default system shell, /bin/bash; this will probably make many people very angry and will be widely regarded as a bad move. ;-) b) Let the user choose upon installation which shell to take from ports, and instantiate a symlink in the root file system, or install it into there right away. The choice list could contain, but is not limited to: - csh / tcsh - zsh - ksh - bash - dash - fish - rc Again, a default could be preselected, about which the same discussions could arise as about the quantity of the selection list. c) Keep sh the only shell on the system and let the user manually install a shell after OS installation via pkg. The core "problem" of ports is that they are restricted to the /usr/local subtree. On certain installations, this tree might not be accessible in single user mode or any other catastrophic scenario where only very limited means are provided (usually: / mounted read-only, nothing else). So if root's interactive shell is /usr/local/bin/zsh, for example, and /usr/local isn't mounted, that's a problem. You cannot even drop to sh and start zsh from there right away - you're stuck with sh for the moment. Further sidenote: It's possible that the transformation of "system | ports" into "everything is a pkg" makes the above consideration fultile. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 03:04:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8A91555962 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:04:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C651672694 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mnq8Y-1gdA4l4ANW-00pKjj; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:04:14 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:04:13 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: Michael Sierchio , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190329040413.1aa78c31.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <695ab639fc872647cef88e09f8e4162f@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <695ab639fc872647cef88e09f8e4162f@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zc4wc4z0DH6F6/FpWd99maYP4H/PexrjGX70z+5JThSnCGhUATf W2ceoEDN7js9cEhQtvfRm03cwrFKKGzM/Uhv7hz7fGrK1mssm7U8c0Cz3ur6WPXfAbg/t83 vecDvdaNxdIlJ/wBX6kksNAHDR7EiVxJNzH6eWjminUb76QQld4aWKUXC1CNhttUmKlJI3z VK3ANErFOio9naH5oBBwQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ygznJzxJ7v4=:RXwpDfrfpeSHN6GXSt0mnC Q7lUcE8s4j/2WH2j9f27r306yy8bxOEWHOhjt3TpabWC1Tv957p0KUU9T00EcyU0KOUP9MAK6 iJJVPtPPYAK6jfZjfabijNOiZHQkFkVPqfTRJ1foCRxwd+2U5GIQY5ogbNNfJ8TG9i6pMV6UJ xo1KPLnrenDfx6igrwdj7DGMykULZT3j2GH9petoI95XHnHYMma6EelD7WRn7deIPxJcd4IwS 4jTSR9MMaYoC8qW3/krcx0xfFISsiuI95NyVINJckd6+EgqZlSeFM/CFIkB1Ku0TfbVUqLNQD WV3jZwm9O2aM9aOoj33ObIx4dzNwHSS9UPyqyPZDQ6E668s/att1AOfFpCbMDyJht5VwNawny mbD49UQDh/aLN3BEardhZ7W3qpwPgAHOxc8RKNKSuqa5zIRWNfm9/cP4nhHOWkjaNDOtZ4eQq h6hjnJl9NinRuIu+bQi12iNz8WG8pzu3hT9zxg9GErlCzTcAURr3Pb8JCgaclaenpaS3EX3sI oEHlrGCP3yl++aMqceKgzeASZpYAPE0595WZ82KQ8aTVBFhrXjK6nhVPp8fLpaUvd3znPf1sw QfLffp3QAMRUvd6R+iMr78fGMNholY1eLz0rkjs/nn+TuE9Q3XcukKPQas5Z10CqCddlQW9BV ut0OLslxWXEbQJ4Aw1Nz+RlEuie1bThlOlQzJQLCoDx5/iy7jrINcmClpIgUl07b+JeBIat/c uajy7y8jSejM/366tTFZTgXcdiPdnHz2S+oExKyYbNIyaVmdyzTNes8rpAI= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C651672694 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.80 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.73)[0.727,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.57)[0.567,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.95)[0.951,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.16)[ip: (0.53), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:04:17 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:36:49 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Couldn't you have simply done; > ls -lh *csh > instead? > Also you can see they are the same binary. No, because -l doesn't provide the information about the inode (which is the same), and -h only affects the size display. You can see they are the same size (minus unit conversion and rounding, of course!), but you cannot conclude they are of the same content, not can you conclude that they are actually the same file, which means, only _one_ inode. You need the -i option to examime the inodes, and to properly conclude that csh and tcsh are hardlinked. > Doesn't matter that it is small, why have stray stuff lying around? I wouldn't call the C shell a stray shell yet. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 03:07:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AE91555B31 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:07:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3501172BD8 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:07:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MlfGs-1gjkhI1ivi-00imDL; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:26 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:26 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? Message-Id: <20190329040726.5ac38bec.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <9d761b9644a40e2186ce5e7dd525bfee@kathe.in> References: <20190329032106.520c79ea.freebsd@edvax.de> <9d761b9644a40e2186ce5e7dd525bfee@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pWB4Nfh4g3wva8EjOWUPJLW0yKFPMAK6rwPMGaRv+Y73x6BwQK4 MG1Q9ZlFypdQZ2a5HlldzmcSIUjNM287cD5DrJvfg8EYrulzQape9Prj/D45D31vvGQ3CYg 7PdqFO43VjKOJRb+8QQ1Kpow+v9arJoI24VYMxVn6aG7xnho4a7x7lYFvIz5dFbpukofZIl UEjqF+QAm2c9Ab0R6sg1w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:CCkARqDPkQA=:cLMcdw3hUfDp4nWUsB7Wec 103ODtQUiArJpCNWqHgXHiIpN4b5dTHXqUHTQ0jIs/PzscazCEw/Pl7WHN0rYd6oHNqstS7+4 BnFUm6nhDIi7OMjjxp+jr2w6dwvDI67O7LvoBxb1zQ6M5q8EI6m+Nj9kY8tMBTh4NfoyGH2wv R7W+idtkjkInGZxjZVBGTC0WHck20fx1Jf02crvj/E/lL3nweqR+zUMU9CFJIsunU6n/199Wt JuRF+RGHcJgL1O9tolaRxiHJnNBcegRCeN7e+HrQ2c5iwGSKVLrhks+M8dcryC1aDZm2ecx6j 4/WpuaoyedYnDzgDocl8KnDne6N0pRRaFzJD05yMTvvj0dkDsc6Elu48tcrAm8xrXFa7F/qVN FZJZQC8TUFmgvTUpEpGRmG36fUvNZPHy4u2uXVVLEXPbXTb+FXUG6EYN34bYH6gIwTPPLeb/D U6j8zMmuKESsaoTwPa0X6GMTTn5E4vuUXXEYUIQvgXWm+n07N7z/eGHuUw4LK2cd3s/DfCZfP 0Zcu1pWI4K2IwzIRCaD8MQxRfE8KhKaIf2Mr1pscidukNRPASPObbuhjtAfANi4UUZtaiHF2R N/1t28SeN413fsqZjVJsu2nXx0lSHXbp9G5fQSPa9ceeJIkjLyWlLTBvxWcewpFfsYDMQ5CPn x+Unykp6KSKPKEA76vi4jsb2ApS8VKwlQJY5Sobuis22JahgsvhYKWtp0MYOvLTtlr3eGttKK 6JT068xjBpvjKhaJShr+XESbf2F20Nv+ienLq5HDHf9H/PEwgFjhdyca29o= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3501172BD8 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.50)[ip: (2.23), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.61), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.859,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.910,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[134.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:07:35 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:55:17 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-29 07:51 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC > >> was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating > >> the > >> switch to Clang/LLVM. > > > > When FreeBSD evolved, it was primarily GCC that has been used > > as the system compiler, so it became the standard. With Clang/LLVM > > offering both evolution in compiler design and implementation, as > > well as a licensing difference to GPL-based GCC, it was chosen > > to be the current default. > > > > I think PCC wasn't on the map yet at that time... ;-) > > PCC wasn't on the FreeBSD map! Right? At least in "newer" FreeBSD versions (I'm using it since 4.0, so that's where my "horizon of experience" ends) GCC was used due to the features that needed to exist for the FreeBSD OS to be properly built. It's possible that PCC didn't fulfill all the requirements. > PCC has existed for a long time. It has even been the first compiler used in the BSD world, if I remember correctly, due to its ability to be configured easily for new hardware platforms. > The project is very much alive, albeit moving quite slowly as all of the > developers work only in their spare time. So if it arrives in OpenBSD which is known for their work to get the system as bug-free and correct as possible, it might be considered by FreeBSD to replace Clang/LLVM, but only time will tell... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 03:09:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA38B1555C82 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1163472D21 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:09:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M72Xn-1h2I2D0Dex-008XFX; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:09:02 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:09:01 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Mike Jeays Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? Message-Id: <20190329040901.a9286db2.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <8ed6766a-33d9-5057-10b0-c2c3b631cdad@jeays.ca> References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <8ed6766a-33d9-5057-10b0-c2c3b631cdad@jeays.ca> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qgJneqUvXhsB2kKBS+PGRUfqZgnGsXzatkMebFvHwoOd6pogb7l 1LzxhSzHNd38Y6tuinsTkjE957K2ljVT1vBEalfrNKLoYRSCw44+YraohHi9XvVjpsazJiJ DjOsxXjqt8en0VH9og6+REJf6+4cT2DwW+0rI6/kHwHYwqdS7cW2j//Mf9XWhROJyqRZduj 3lPzs23/Tr61Jh6Nn59FA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:/DwTqCbcfaM=:Q4Xdj9VhN1P3umlRWoEzVB 4i1V70pyFnZazuew4X0Gq0n+uj5QrT2k8yYxPWrRYdu+VSuAeS2f1PPcwCQTSHCBDchsi1Uze Z/X2OaywsT4QTjFODLg1MqV4SkshXZtLCN+8EUl50LVPTMdKTpM5MOTvPUYPHuSqxs+HEuR04 ncTZTiemYTAhaWjc8zlfKIVG0mjX4xjCmztOOXOjgjc1EGVm78VzigTwEJLftouh03qpKiPfm Lvj/RaWTnMU2zerrvMH/RXtsKDIUz6kyRpfKvfwUWolAc/87mMpsWePK0Z9TDSzc8u987KRnW Nmo7llok3KqVOiMYeUegSEe86PBy7pu9uLN+bfGed4tVuPp5x/nkKl/7c15ooOg/C9FrkrwdV UUM2ScoPg5/glhTRF47PD+JKGraYKQBJuyqprMZ3xdoltMsGx/3k+lhQrujjF+JH5U1QkSfi9 uJ0CMirEhuB7ych8mSBdlSc0W2P+Gd/ZR/YJhi+GqJsqurxfj4YKPTLWrFTXCV4D85Iv2yILc lGy6YaQBKGe2q/kuby6btFDvSmvY/Gj0vmGBoKVYyCCePZpGzlt//i3z7XE5bZZtBtKf+ZZaU 6G9H1aeZaIV0l8HTcRTiuC/Tw0qqjmPoKZUQvpQzn1sxOJmOdurlY3iDz/LdZWZgzi81JWdGq GByLuxI/NO5pBGULoaMg14iGql+UJTL8OHcy761au5FNT0i+ZQfjsYpaDropCGONPbsB19mCU +UiEELD0BtjkHpnt0QvD/5aNA+y7JSSetbRNPE/ZeavzX+NO/qAO6GK5xn8= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1163472D21 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.875,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.94)[0.938,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.58)[ip: (2.61), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.60), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:09:48 -0000 On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:28:34 -0400, Mike Jeays wrote: > It might occasionally be useful on a dysfunctional system that will not > start properly, when it might be the only editor available. Or on a damaged line with damaged terminal capabilities, and in an emergency, where you need to create a file from scratch or alter one, as a "one time only" action. > Other than > this, I can't imagine any practical use for it. If vi is too hard, there > is always nano. Well, nano isn't part of FreeBSD, but ee is. It's very useful for those who cannot vi. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 03:36:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057E61556E04 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:36:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 931BA742BE for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:36:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail14.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.14]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2E8D840004; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:36:05 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:06:04 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <20190329040726.5ac38bec.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190329032106.520c79ea.freebsd@edvax.de> <9d761b9644a40e2186ce5e7dd525bfee@kathe.in> <20190329040726.5ac38bec.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 931BA742BE X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.194 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.865,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[194.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.93)[ip: (-1.91), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.51), asn: 29169(-1.22), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:36:09 -0000 On 2019-03-29 08:37 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:55:17 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> On 2019-03-29 07:51 AM, Polytropon wrote: >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> >> Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC >> >> was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating >> >> the >> >> switch to Clang/LLVM. >> > >> > When FreeBSD evolved, it was primarily GCC that has been used >> > as the system compiler, so it became the standard. With Clang/LLVM >> > offering both evolution in compiler design and implementation, as >> > well as a licensing difference to GPL-based GCC, it was chosen >> > to be the current default. >> > >> > I think PCC wasn't on the map yet at that time... ;-) >> >> PCC wasn't on the FreeBSD map! Right? > > At least in "newer" FreeBSD versions (I'm using it since 4.0, > so that's where my "horizon of experience" ends) GCC was used > due to the features that needed to exist for the FreeBSD OS > to be properly built. It's possible that PCC didn't fulfill > all the requirements. True, before "ragge" took it up, PCC had gone stale. >> PCC has existed for a long time. > > It has even been the first compiler used in the BSD world, if > I remember correctly, due to its ability to be configured > easily for new hardware platforms. It was/is considered the most portable compiler-set. >> The project is very much alive, albeit moving quite slowly as all of >> the >> developers work only in their spare time. > > So if it arrives in OpenBSD which is known for their work to > get the system as bug-free and correct as possible, it might > be considered by FreeBSD to replace Clang/LLVM, but only time > will tell... It won't arrive in OpenBSD, mainly due to political reasons. Also, OpenBSD has already moved to Clang/LLVM for x86_64. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 05:12:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F63D155994D for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:12:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms-10.1blu.de (ms-10.1blu.de [178.254.4.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1345E77092 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:12:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [188.174.57.173] (helo=[192.168.2.103]) by ms-10.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h9jom-0002Wk-5q for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:12:40 +0100 From: Matthias Apitz To: Subject: Re: eee-dee =?iso-8859-1?Q?anyone=3F?= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:12:39 +0100 User-Agent: Dekko/0.6.20; Qt/5.4.1; ubuntumirclient; Linux; MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Con-U: 0-guru X-Originating-IP: 188.174.57.173 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1345E77092 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.14 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.unixarea.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.890,0]; SUBJ_EXCESS_QP(1.20)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[101.4.254.178.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[173.57.174.188.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; IP_SCORE(-3.24)[ip: (-9.16), ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(-3.90), asn: 42730(-3.12), country: DE(-0.01)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:12:51 -0000 Am Freitag, 29. M=C3=A4rz 2019 02:50:43 CET schrieb Mayuresh Kathe=20 : > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? I do use ee often in shell scripts controlled by here scripts. matthias --=20 Sent from my Ubuntu phone http://www.unixarea.de/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 06:48:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D96E155C44A for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:48:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3481E82278 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x2T6P4Pa054410 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 00:25:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <8ed6766a-33d9-5057-10b0-c2c3b631cdad@jeays.ca> Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Message-ID: <1945d1d9-eae0-3239-0f72-5d7a7efccc57@dreamchaser.org> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 00:22:55 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8ed6766a-33d9-5057-10b0-c2c3b631cdad@jeays.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 00:25:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3481E82278 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.48 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[nightmare.dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.935,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.23)[ip: (-8.47), ipnet: 66.109.128.0/19(-4.23), asn: 21947(-3.39), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:48:33 -0000 On 3/28/19 8:28 PM, Mike Jeays wrote: > On 2019-03-28 9:50 p.m., Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? If >> yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over >> "vi"? _______________________________________________ > > It might occasionally be useful on a dysfunctional system that will > not start properly, when it might be the only editor available. Other > than this, I can't imagine any practical use for it. If vi is too > hard, there is always nano. I last used it in exactly that scenario. I think I had to mess with a munged /etc/fstab and a trashed disk. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 07:06:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B787A155CB48 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:06:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 046F982CAC for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:06:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DC932C009 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:06:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:4187:e9fa:8518:c332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 90F4E424 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:06:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/90F4E424; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <20190329032416.61dd677d.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Matthew Seaman Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 3A3m3u8bdsFp40DlIrBtSByVjqERxcfhphrEB4J8BXHUG7OAtXkZMlW/PGKDwXJq0O6Z5Tcg YHAoEiSWbXiexHgXNJyP+sqnIlhLWhSJGeJ+C83wqI6oYlZUCW00NkPxcIHnQPV/z+5wQVci TMyaWC2YCIHz4Ljs+TnwWMz0E8PNFDfHVbQ0W4PRGV7gRAqxfL+yKufauIEGbEq8rNDbSwL3 bcUCxR4ZDlaUEUwT4J8naf7rjdgiEYHs2Ig3jeK1+ER4FPG1sQARAQABtDBNYXR0aGV3IFNl 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mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:06:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ySf80wXwHuIU0uHoDdGApbHsCQZYDEwo1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="D6YwF413SB0N5eN94Vm7jlWstwGnre46n"; protected-headers="v1" From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <20190329032416.61dd677d.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190329032416.61dd677d.freebsd@edvax.de> --D6YwF413SB0N5eN94Vm7jlWstwGnre46n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 29/03/2019 02:24, Polytropon wrote: > I'm not sure people actually use this particular software, > but many sysadmins I know have had their share of ed during > their professional education. I'm familiar with the basics > myself, but I haven't found a case where I would have wanted > to actually _use_ ed. :-) ed(1) is largely a historical remnant. It was for a while the editor of last resort, which you could use to rescue a system in a parlous state when only the root partition was available, but not /usr. That's gone out of the window nowadays where /usr is rarely a separate partition and we have more modern filesystems like ZFS which have the useful property of never being rendered unmountable by a sudden system crash. (You don't get off Scott-free though. Instead, you can loose the last few updates to the filesystem in those circumstances.) Even for scripting purposes, sed(1) rules the roost. I don't think I've seen a script using ed(1), well ... pretty much ever. Cheers, Matthew --D6YwF413SB0N5eN94Vm7jlWstwGnre46n-- --ySf80wXwHuIU0uHoDdGApbHsCQZYDEwo1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAlydxA5fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5OcDPQ//eddz7wHg99058IX4MDKhJ9viDwk6PM3YvlRbzo2tJyYZjHhqlRewd7Dn fkb5sWGNFR61oxZ26xORXBxDJApaIM0g3Nl13EkgdqcsxtSglfwEQwLzpna0/J+b EXPaqTZIs0TMbXfZ8gGwhUvqqOnyyUSAGyhERhYY6+Cdb26p9zObVgbiVhLW2C2c FT/nCGa5RxBZ5quZ8aYNzhjeao6J7v8y1/4ii5pM/amcyM7QoOP9x8UtQR29hhie tPOWxcfXMndq9q8JB6Sykrkq800UD0HKuBWlVRTFbFV7oLhD8mfTWmKQ5Z/8RXft NFiJVnqUrUTUAw4fVWqOYI33xDoTjrxW3wc8DyR2vP0L/jYfrJF0jDnfFmy8sD9f 037LmCX5mqAh6oBjDYk0L6l32djiVxxBnyR9tUts3oaLC/TVZ1fZJ3hoz2gUiJ5h PUAgrxXJz4NlsFWgPk88fr/B43Lz+oDT65gsgZk4kI/JbYQsgaLP54RQ32Kuyfhm O/QLKPva0DuM3ccnkPgMgw/wi85cAe0DuNj44vGiXj0i7hQYrxRba3Q1NNQpV8HR 1+zUk7uuvu0gt/ve4gfWtq0Lhg81g1O5+/NZ6Nz5RZEkPwl3arMumFQXK/+y4FmG iefgVKsmRDJlTN1azcZn2q4QgDgNiYCvCOvbgOTxUOc/ebnUFfI= =pArC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ySf80wXwHuIU0uHoDdGApbHsCQZYDEwo1-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 07:34:58 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3380155D44B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:34:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from smh-06.1blu.de (smh-06.1blu.de [178.254.0.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1FE2837F1 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:34:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [172.16.29.5] (helo=sh4-5.1blu.de) by smh-06.1blu.de with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h9m2J-00079M-Gb for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:34:47 +0100 Received: from ftp51246-2575596 by sh4-5.1blu.de with local (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1h9m2J-0001w0-B4 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:34:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:34:47 +0100 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? Message-ID: <20190329073447.GA6320@sh4-5.1blu.de> Reply-To: Matthias Apitz Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <20190329032416.61dd677d.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT r314251 (amd64) X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C1FE2837F1 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[guru@unixarea.de]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.unixarea.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.901,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-1.39)[ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(-3.87), asn: 42730(-3.09), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:34:58 -0000 El día Friday, March 29, 2019 a las 07:06:53AM +0000, Matthew Seaman escribió: > ed(1) is largely a historical remnant. It was for a while the editor of > last resort, ... Even more, it was at the beginning the one and only UNIX editor. When I started in the late 70's with UNIX V7 on a PDP-11 clone, all was to be done with the ed(1). matthias -- Matthias Apitz, ✉ guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045 Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub October, 7 -- The GDR was different: Peace instead of Bundeswehr and wars, Druschba instead of Nazis, to live instead of to survive. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 08:08:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFA8155E489 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:08:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B81E384730 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:08:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1553846900; x=1556438900; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=YhqenU+bthjnfmsCyW6gCHlYKYICML4vbHs5YTsKBCc=; b=i9fPKlv6msdDQPdqk2YyiYk0Gk5/E+/ySn4DYOutYe1czMlQjMBoo9fhhq6e8Cf/BZar/iZkrP/+bvdgMcZikg3zKDtwcEecyOnUo4+GtA9fVJMuehQH7Wal2xwyLgVLkqzAF2v4U2WV+OG4yEwO8ye6/b9VKvsI+5br3X9KPHc= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYTcwMDAwMDE0ZWI1ZTcuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r4.h.in.socketlabs.com (s1-b40f.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.180.15]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:07:55 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r4.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:07:55 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1h9lcH-000394-QX; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:07:53 +0000 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:07:53 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon , mayuresh@kathe.in Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329070753.d0e178c5f6515062e2a32190@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190329034123.33357629.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <20190329034123.33357629.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B81E384730 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=i9fPKlv6; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.08 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mxbh.socketlabs.com,mxbsg.socketlabs.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.14)[0.140,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.22)[ip: (-0.58), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.28), asn: 7381(-0.21), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:08:21 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:41:23 +0100 Polytropon wrote: > No, I think it's the consideration of the implemented features and > the ability of integration into the system that keeps sendmail in > its current place. That and the simple fact that nobody has done the work necessary to integrate an alternative into FreeBSD and present the result for review with appropriate testing and a convincing set of benefits. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 08:22:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EB1155EA3B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:22:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD9E84E9A for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:22:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x2T8MWEM026903 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:22:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:22:32 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD9E84E9A X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.05 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.11)[ip: (0.38), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(0.19), asn: 30722(-0.05), country: IT(0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.52)[0.525,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.80)[0.802,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it,mx.netfence.it]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.72)[0.724,0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[netfence.it]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:22:51 -0000 On 3/29/19 2:59 AM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. Just out of curiosity, what do you find so hard in configuring sendmail *for simple tasks*? (I agree it's somewhat confusing sometimes when it comes to complex edge-cases). bye av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 08:46:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56C1155F218 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:46:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dr.klepp@gmx.at) Received: from vie01a-dmta-at50-2.mx.upcmail.net (vie01a-dmta-at50-2.mx.upcmail.net [62.179.121.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA873858A2 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:46:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dr.klepp@gmx.at) Received: from [172.31.216.41] (helo=vie01a-pemc-psmtp-at50) by vie01a-dmta-at50.mx.upcmail.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h9n4X-00066K-Sr for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:41:09 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([85.126.97.210]) by vie01a-pemc-psmtp-at50 with SMTP @ mailcloud.upcmail.net id tkh91z01q4YLlkt0Bkh9ER; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:41:09 +0100 X-SourceIP: 85.126.97.210 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=O6RJhF1W c=1 sm=2 tr=0 a=/Ac8Q0O/YFE5LOLfUiYZVw==:117 a=/Ac8Q0O/YFE5LOLfUiYZVw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=eHL4P6T5Issbh7DMBnkA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 From: "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:41:19 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> In-Reply-To: X-KMail-QuotePrefix: > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201903290941.19684.dr.klepp@gmx.at> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EA873858A2 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dr.klepp@gmx.at does not designate 62.179.121.137 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dr.klepp@gmx.at X-Spamd-Result: default: False [10.41 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmx.at]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.emig.gmx.net]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmx.at]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6830, ipnet:62.179.0.0/17, country:AT]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[137.121.179.62.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.883,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gmx.at]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.976,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; FROM_NAME_HAS_TITLE(1.00)[dr]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FORGED_MUA_KMAIL_MSGID(3.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; IP_SCORE(0.76)[asn: 6830(3.90), country: AT(-0.10)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 08:46:50 -0000 Anno domini 2019 Fri, 29 Mar 09:22:32 +0100 Andrea Venturoli scripsit: > On 3/29/19 2:59 AM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > > easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. > > Just out of curiosity, what do you find so hard in configuring sendmail > *for simple tasks*? > (I agree it's somewhat confusing sometimes when it comes to complex > edge-cases). Last time I looked at sendmail, it did not deliver local mail when no notwork and/or nameserver was available. Testing was done on a fresh installation of FreeBSD 10, so maybe things have changed. Nik > > bye > av. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 09:01:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F11155FD5B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:01:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80C6B862A7 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:01:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M6VRf-1h2tdc0NeD-006yPk; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:01:33 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:01:33 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329100133.39ecebb1.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201903290941.19684.dr.klepp@gmx.at> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <201903290941.19684.dr.klepp@gmx.at> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1SPiYSxF1Yo8VTayPQkSolOuJlQYna19D30pwbXw/tADgHRYIkK Gjw9yotkPG9MZFGIdi61iV0RGnt4K6zhO3N88geTIJFy9e5Hh3B7sbskRKunmkHgqC8D9d+ wmZ39AKuf6UTqsXWXrF3q/v/TV29MJNZAnQYuvKDafq2nc66reYVrfuG+6J7SendYLuv9DN igouu0FNk9y80l+01FIuA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tE6CGBSIu1o=:O9Nnc7VgYq47GrOVnrmFzN ufyZet7nGizqflm9DHKV6OGdlMWAJjp5b1xhTyj7b7/zOS6kkrI4/NL6UkxXRPuwPoCmhf+Rr zYvRJ2j0FnkBufVMOATA3uN0uImmGuf4qDg/iwbtVVu6tYfXfgvRtzMv0OSq6SoA/PcnDUbt6 GgSQcofgixsuxP6cAZESQ5ft9HT2QGnPNb5Lqm7t/thHdsXjHmHWnt0lbjajcnJyS4RLg0aZw J+1qlTyWdsOc6phQeO5+6uZEenuxQQmdzVgYo+115Lj42hSxG/2u/YnV4IZxLFytP54b1+GEa DCXnWykLsHjOwGjiZSx7vHlHQbTuKO/e/wQSKZL6TQGVWBGkQ4G0/33UuZsjKUzugwhQMurFd nP2aa8rpKTYg5i0IMxrb7nUaTU/ilPMds0aalhXBVpSdF+By1zrfUku6u8s8rv3Shiw+askPj LH5uVabgxC3FMm2K6agTftISj8INvyALBxiqrjkWwp53iP8odM/guJoulhXNlB3XRjbWVKswi SWLL7y+UFRRw/UB9s1g68itwnUQtEhh6IXQokT+Qvwab+CRArBnRu3G2i4TIf6fgia4SJZVO4 K7f0oDR0go6gQkzLcWL7jUWv6ksOQw0MxKKXdVfQvAG+77RBZbqLsMBeGFlb9j4wm0OyLCRVz 3DrozcBUB+8+aIu00Ock6axXJIwZw4XbI1NuKFhQi/t6ieVKtYmAifZL/zruVJKRb6/6/dRKU CwvQQ28uVp8DzI1ha9S4XyIpOmXO0CzFwtnGIAnlH6Y8XFy/29YGq2/4vGY= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 80C6B862A7 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.18 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmx.at]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.69)[0.692,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.06)[0.063,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.974,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.06)[ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.60), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:01:42 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:41:19 +0100, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: > Anno domini 2019 Fri, 29 Mar 09:22:32 +0100 > Andrea Venturoli scripsit: > > On 3/29/19 2:59 AM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > > > easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. > > > > Just out of curiosity, what do you find so hard in configuring sendmail > > *for simple tasks*? > > (I agree it's somewhat confusing sometimes when it comes to complex > > edge-cases). > > Last time I looked at sendmail, it did not deliver local mail > when no notwork and/or nameserver was available. Testing was > done on a fresh installation of FreeBSD 10, so maybe things > have changed. Does that system run the /etc/periodic system scripts? If yes, where does the output go? The only thing that sendmail requires for delivering local mail (i. e., from "process user" to "real user" and of course for "real user" to "real user") is a correct configuration for the loopback device (see 127.0.0.1 and localhost). So if you have 127.0.0.1 localhost in your /etc/hosts, it should be okay. The setting sendmail_submit_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf should be sufficient. This makes sure that the periodic scripts can send messages to root (or any other user, if additionally specified), as well as "intra-system communication", such as: % mail root Subject: A test This is a test. . % _ And into the other direction: # mail -s "Test works" bob Hey Bob, the test was successful. . # _ This is basic system functionality. ;-) See /etc/defaults/rc.conf for sendmail-related items. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 10:12:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199A3156214E for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:12:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: from alioth.uberspace.de (alioth.uberspace.de [185.26.156.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9C188A4F for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:11:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@927589452.de) Received: (qmail 27650 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2019 10:05:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by alioth.uberspace.de with SMTP; 29 Mar 2019 10:05:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:04:54 +0100 From: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de Subject: Banking Application with TUI Message-ID: <20190329100454.djb7d7vw27fwhnz6@deathbolt.927589452.space> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Info: Keep It Simple, Stupid. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD, kernel 12.0-RELEASE X-Message-Flag: WARNING!! Microsoft sucks User-Agent: Every email client sucks, this one just sucks less. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EE9C188A4F X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.32)[0.323,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[927589452.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.73)[0.729,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alioth.uberspace.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.48)[0.478,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:58010, ipnet:185.26.156.0/22, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mailinglists-freebsd-questions@927589452.de,mailinglists@927589452.de]; IP_SCORE(-0.00)[country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:12:01 -0000 Hi, I am not sure if this or the users list is better suited to this question, so feel free to redirect me if so. Is there a usable TUI Banking apllication out there? Must: -Supporting HBCI/FinTan4 -Localcopies of data - TAN Generator Support Nice to have: - integration with other standards or a scraping capability - OpticalTAN Generator Support I am currently using jameica[ https://www.willuhn.de/products/jameica/ ] with Hibsicus [ https://www.willuhn.de/products/hibiscus/ ] on top of it, but I am looking for something that integrate more with my world of neomutt vim Khal :) Greets J From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 10:36:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBE41562908; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:36:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B403895DF; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:36:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail16.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.16]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 03FD940012; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 16:06:36 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Andrea Venturoli Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> Message-ID: X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8B403895DF X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.194 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.62)[-0.615,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[194.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.92)[ip: (-1.86), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.50), asn: 29169(-1.21), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:36:41 -0000 On 2019-03-29 01:52 PM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > On 3/29/19 2:59 AM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. > > Just out of curiosity, what do you find so hard in configuring > sendmail *for simple tasks*? > (I agree it's somewhat confusing sometimes when it comes to complex > edge-cases). All I want to do is route my locally typed mail (using mailx and ed) through my mail provider's SMTP server. Till date, I have been unable to even figure out how to do that, leave alone actually succeeding at doing it. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 11:07:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17284156346D for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gibbs.adam02@weboptimizes.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x943.google.com (mail-ua1-x943.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::943]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 062108A4BF for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:07:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gibbs.adam02@weboptimizes.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x943.google.com with SMTP id p13so512196uaa.11 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=weboptimizes.com; s=google; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ijo1U8EZyVT6XKPt64FVh3ExPiQoo2RCf/75PqYapSo=; b=LvtwUO8ojk0ge1bg3lI6xpL9Py4attD+b9n+IYBS/jaBcoDy3fM46TGhtoLRnWMMP3 mznbGVyDG8TDY336MhX3RA3UhaGjDBSjt/uD524svhifvUUKMB/iiLnyYaHeC4NEnESF XvlmxSIuLDUgQ/pGZJWKHheQKfHYaIDliXplg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject :to; bh=Ijo1U8EZyVT6XKPt64FVh3ExPiQoo2RCf/75PqYapSo=; b=uDlQvj8xthx+yw0EZS4byjavJX/yxAN5q43JHeR5mJicb1ZDP+vYs2Ql1CdYhMpVZT bSEbXJAlj3FuqVZ62xXmb2cktOCAyVMW0zDga2Q0+peUzdOtJximat1IdQj2pw0x7oF0 oOSnvgH58GVL3vGdXScoa2YyB8fIe7WxOk0Vjlc7x9U5eiEU2Pmw4bmoOpA3rde8k1w1 KehWaoXNaWOc+nPnZTnZ2A0gA/3JrzhZ638w60IzaCwc+v9cDacMpeS8dHAmc9yCQX/j hvb2IJE+pBUDpwttJeAEbRU8Xc7Tf3U6jdT5uYtnbHIB2yNcds56UlFZQapldNWd3KeB 7hgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUOS/Jt1s0ZUeyADBJpdYrvNvrG6obdEFZcBOs1M80K+X1Omh5H 0hcBE2dT67gRfZQj62iWz0N1rvnrzhAaZoYnhudjqCXA6hU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz3gxkvhOxzFmRG7RO1K/GodJjBeGT+wRNWvPggPKKOSSdIqbrJemVTmRpwz4NTuKzBeqacwbzu7n+G5MRJxRE= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:2247:: with SMTP id z7mr21569246uan.18.1553857632153; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 52669349336 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:07:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: Adam Gibbs From: Adam Gibbs Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:07:11 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7S4H8-hvHr5lUTVKjBrXs4oUn4s Message-ID: Subject: Did You Get Your Free Website Error Report yet ? To: Freebsd-Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 062108A4BF X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none (invalid DKIM record) header.d=weboptimizes.com header.s=google header.b=LvtwUO8o; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=weboptimizes.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gibbs.adam02@weboptimizes.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::943 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gibbs.adam02@weboptimizes.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.96 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(-0.57)[ip: (2.24), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.87), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[weboptimizes.com:~]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[weboptimizes.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT3.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ALT4.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[weboptimizes.com:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.589,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:07:14 -0000 *Hi * *Team,* Hope this email finds you well. 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I look forward to hearing from you. *Best Regards,* *Adam Gibbs* *SEO-Consultant* [image: beacon] From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 11:17:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87231563B38; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:17:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FAC18AD09; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:17:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MLAZe-1hRuXu2ZFa-00IFfv; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:12:12 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:12:12 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: Andrea Venturoli , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1dvqYDLjt4BOYhSB7YGELCFV0QdM9rCEVGBkzfiWR5Sw7LYOLpH s0NPGIwjZXZ26c9uOdjQz7k4QekgBkmBmIsB3ZyHfF0IZbknF0IY5TbdctKV77cE7KQZKIc MiO3S4yNefRygQYoDhhG1RfdsX6+ymHefW//AhmS2RVlUGMvi/6k5Oyeq1OhWmUYOTUnGhB IiwyrWWeCuKF6mz0V6Vhw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Vntyd1j3sWQ=:2Wk2eezY8TjG1fDzkLqD4q S/UaI5F/SHXL6KdWu2IwsfKkGNOjy5LorDRB7a21hnZXzl73Ktnk2xSMNoF7qpElq8ZM4/PFT ImKogf1JY/9tMOdzXQ65rqmbTvAFZ5I75D8SrJdiUNy0BZ+y/81xd6RpZpsV8v/TxPcfQltih DuKMeDkinrQVB+XyyG5mNvRZLJzDqSFTzC1UDssu3dJK9Z2nSXSdIlET7osk8cEH0IJD0G3Lg gtlS/g3WtzLMa7lVhZk5x/WpTd0Wjk2UvdXGmXLMB7d7+BnB9HT9HrwzVGJAUr7chvWYXMjFi RG7C2PDfFveShI5aLo5Kh18u7dYY+OMIOLg0jkkNLPLad37y9GZCC5GrlZF0kp0RVUe09MC8a h9MrUBAzmnc8PRFPmRqCPn9k4ZkBIP3h/9ULzoQVfwK77aXZdfL9jsFPvINWPglq4EAOtOsA3 mZW+HMADCqLUhh5grnRUzLO6ZbvLN8YuhvuxgLJo395b8Nz2cFHeS+o1CIg7Qn3H85dIZ6nWM BILIZJWCFXud2J74AP19aa5OSi3wtGHKg8boZyDhPBBWX+dXHjpK2YOhufbP8XhXw5lC3g70E CuI9h6mCDqnyqr8SYZxhCYnn0p2Stjo5aARuSfjp1jkejFGv438IDhycA7DVd71R3BHIyvibV JYPyxD1LkbL4jJjlI2/p1aQYuKh/1oQ1dfZY3Az3LWMM8+KEpYXS42yVSV9+FSw8OCo/5TbFO jcA7Vr+fhwkolKVFzwZuH33aepUit/zu9E7ktNdi6l6JhZ69XGKlluMkEms= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6FAC18AD09 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.84 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.92)[0.920,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.966,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.56)[ip: (2.52), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.30), asn: 8560(1.60), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:17:39 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 16:06:36 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-29 01:52 PM, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > > On 3/29/19 2:59 AM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> easier to configure for simple tasks than Sendmail. > > > > Just out of curiosity, what do you find so hard in configuring > > sendmail *for simple tasks*? > > (I agree it's somewhat confusing sometimes when it comes to complex > > edge-cases). > > All I want to do is route my locally typed mail (using mailx and ed) > through my mail provider's SMTP server. Does the mail provider have a mail relay you can use? In that case, the setting define(`SMART_HOST', `mx.example.com') in your mail configuration, followed by a rebuild and restart (see /etc/mail/Makefile's comment header) should be sufficient. This method does not require you to interact with any external SMTP server. > Till date, I have been unable to even figure out how to do that, leave > alone actually succeeding at doing it. If you know an easy way to do the same as above, but with SMTP, let me know. Since my provider stopped offering the mail relay, I had to put the SMTP details into my GUI MUA's configuration and now have to wait for the annoying progress bar instead of the previously possible "click and forget", and I currently do not have my own _real_ mail server... ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 11:29:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9741A1564848 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:29:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9051F8C6E9 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:29:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mail2.nber.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x2TBT7Ws073345 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:29:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Mayuresh Kathe cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... In-Reply-To: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Message-ID: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-KLMS-Rule-ID: 1 X-KLMS-Message-Action: clean X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Status: not scanned, disabled by settings X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: not scanned X-KLMS-AntiPhishing: Clean, 2019/03/27 10:29:33 X-KLMS-AntiVirus: Kaspersky Security 8.0 for Linux Mail Server, version 8.0.1.721, bases: 2019/03/29 03:37:00 #9475119 X-KLMS-AntiVirus-Status: Clean, skipped X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9051F8C6E9 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=nber.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of feenberg@nber.org designates 198.71.6.79 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=feenberg@nber.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.69 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.958,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.29)[0.288,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[79.6.71.198.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtp.nber.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[nber.org,none]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26287, ipnet:198.71.6.0/23, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:29:11 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports collection? > I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we need to > still rely on that? > I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, but it > doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full as "bash". To > top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" and "tcsh" in-spite > of being the same binary. ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well informed users. Daniel Feenberg From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 11:50:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5821D1564FFA for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:50:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5448D255 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:50:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from sas1.nber.org (sas1.nber.org [198.71.6.89]) by mail2.nber.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x2TBMb4O070316 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:22:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Mayuresh Kathe cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? In-Reply-To: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> Message-ID: References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (LRH 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-KLMS-Rule-ID: 1 X-KLMS-Message-Action: clean X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Status: not scanned, disabled by settings X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: not scanned X-KLMS-AntiPhishing: Clean, 2019/03/27 10:29:33 X-KLMS-AntiVirus: Kaspersky Security 8.0 for Linux Mail Server, version 8.0.1.721, bases: 2019/03/29 03:37:00 #9475119 X-KLMS-AntiVirus-Status: Clean, skipped X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AD5448D255 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=nber.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of feenberg@nber.org designates 198.71.6.79 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=feenberg@nber.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.77 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.974,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[79.6.71.198.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.nber.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.878,0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[nber.org,none]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26287, ipnet:198.71.6.0/23, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:50:26 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? Yes, I do use it. Not all the time, but please don't remove ed from the OS just because vi is better. There is a fallacious class of argument that is routine in mailing lists that decodes to "if a is better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to use it". Daniel Feenberg NBER From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 12:52:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F0F1567B3C for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04EAD8FF64 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D344810651; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... To: Polytropon Cc: FreeBSD Questions References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <20190329035638.db780898.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <1404f209-3b1f-4fa5-b8f7-56eef7f1fc40@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:13 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190329035638.db780898.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 04EAD8FF64 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.12 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.mythic-beasts.com,mx2.mythic-beasts.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.83)[ip: (-8.64), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-4.32), asn: 13037(-1.09), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:24 -0000 On 29/03/2019 02:56, Polytropon wrote: > On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:03:24 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: >> *kudzu@hearst:/bin 130>* ll -i | grep csh >> >> 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 csh* >> >> 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 tcsh* >> > > The csh / tcsh is not the only system component known by > more than one name: > > % hardlinks.sh /bin > 23621: csh tcsh <--- ! > 23627: ed red > 23633: link ln > 23638: pgrep pkill > 23644: rm unlink > 24944: [ test Also /rescue/* where all but two of the executables have the same inode number. > It's important to note that by querying $0 or argv[0], a > program can change its behaviour depending on the way it > has been invoked. So a call to "csh" could cause the program > to do things differently than if it was called by "tcsh". > > Of course this also applies to _any_ programs, being part > of the OS or being installed by ports. > > Sidenote: If the C shell would be removed from the system, > and a port would be needed, the system's default install > would not contain an interactive shell. > > Alternatives: > > a) Make bash the default system shell, /bin/bash; this will > probably make many people very angry and will be widely > regarded as a bad move. ;-) Grey-bearded mobs with torches and pitchforks would ensue. :-) > b) Let the user choose upon installation which shell to > take from ports, and instantiate a symlink in the root > file system, or install it into there right away. The > choice list could contain, but is not limited to: > - csh / tcsh > - zsh > - ksh > - bash > - dash > - fish > - rc > Again, a default could be preselected, about which the > same discussions could arise as about the quantity of > the selection list. > > c) Keep sh the only shell on the system and let the user > manually install a shell after OS installation via pkg. > > The core "problem" of ports is that they are restricted to > the /usr/local subtree. On certain installations, this tree > might not be accessible in single user mode or any other > catastrophic scenario where only very limited means are > provided (usually: / mounted read-only, nothing else). > So if root's interactive shell is /usr/local/bin/zsh, > for example, and /usr/local isn't mounted, that's a > problem. You cannot even drop to sh and start zsh from > there right away - you're stuck with sh for the moment. > > Further sidenote: It's possible that the transformation of > "system | ports" into "everything is a pkg" makes the above > consideration fultile. :-) -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 13:02:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C5751568022 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBA91903BA for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E208110651; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? To: mayuresh@kathe.in, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <78b9b0ce-b7cd-96f6-aeed-d9756f50ce80@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:00 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BBA91903BA X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.mythic-beasts.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.86)[-0.856,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.72)[ip: (-8.30), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-4.15), asn: 13037(-1.07), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:03 -0000 On 29/03/2019 01:59, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > I am led to believe that Sendmail is still around in the install image > as well as the base install because some need a way to send out mails > without having to install a package/port. Can't the same be achieved > with "msmtp" which is lighter and easier to configure for simple tasks > than Sendmail. Hope FreeBSD isn't hanging on to Sendmail due to some > political issue like being the baby of one of the lead developers / > founders! Note that dma (the DragonFly Mail Agent) appeared in FreeBSD as of 11.2 (I think, maybe 11.1). It's basically an SMTP client for sending mail off the machine, not receiving incoming. It can do local delivery too, if anyone is still using that. When building jails I strip out most "system" executables including sendmail and use dma if the jail needs to send mail out. I also use it on headless servers, passing everything to a smarthost. "man dma" for details. -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 13:15:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F201568539 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8639A90E33 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:15:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M1rGy-1h7eQ10Fmi-002FQe; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:14:53 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:14:53 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Arthur Chance Cc: mayuresh@kathe.in, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <78b9b0ce-b7cd-96f6-aeed-d9756f50ce80@qeng-ho.org> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <78b9b0ce-b7cd-96f6-aeed-d9756f50ce80@qeng-ho.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Y4GIUVQUVnP6+1GhRRC6vNNwACRPchs2mr+R0cSIFyQp1ECCr1t +kczTPie2KFkZv35UdMlpf9Nor7byhPSAD3ld5ov6ohbpHCCAHTf2TlaklD0tSynU/Fc0Ds 79GcF9SwMOnRr0NjEl0bHiYbqzvxpPhKc45TLYSleDdS6DT5hvLy1IYmj3Ch6o41Y3ghZ28 rqcbSuKCnjAlf/2tlTp+Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:lwIRpG1nUCI=:iL6067uieCh3AFp2BKq4rK TfriWm9JPreP0sPavd1ADONn0DbHegtSm8VTXguU/Uo5H+TXr9tFuvXL3ipLz6GgBBILQAn13 X1k3MrYDZSxJJAi8uzl5ffXR/xcv3dW97gUpnJIvph95iqrMWtUGSwMXq+De7sHAszsYypgjx 49Nua6R/E4n+OU6T0sy3ryHNfu9n6TehlMOPFQyuG0yRFjHSQdPtUMDyV45XrJkqHEQnfGTA8 fAcm6Vy/BLQSRUbN5qSKLFSOAZ8ylkppGVWlTQxWcw9RxqH1Cvj8aKEsW9oXDSrQDKmriy7EK JGhE6HlK+IEcHwKq2o2BvNxeznOBljlLVo+MMWv/QaxWb0+1tvhn0qLFcjg3drgj+Lz/0S9Jc I/l6DcE+dgJs51c5yeoA1lefYQj+rOpTOUQxiBOhE7QTGho2qIVkbnL6k2ySCWGIS4jidseP6 he90kEAXvrhW+UrbGN0ducgPCzNihVmt5hir68iv7PSG/E1ILdyzlBwh7Y3Pnh7zKSuxzjJ3u gyEWjueTjAtSic4qXKZn9tON+tBvOybp2x7rUYL3lpQXC1NMRzvOl6AMk+gUFHdjNYfURKwns CEiSbwxiyutqJuyVGZrpeTyWwEG7aSQPwfhWx/MAMl2M7R0XlotXRfNHEWr6HxcDmw9uvu/hV Dc4KZRRs5TPGW6viBG98Dv4Nt5Sm5QYa24o6ZROpff5FEaREBZAZhQDGPFetOZPtIQX1gCnov byLjdXBHpqJakUTH1w2VoRb3LwJDq7/GiO3uIkg+gVC5bYft7hBeE4Niy9c= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8639A90E33 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.36 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.833,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.59)[0.591,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.55)[ip: (2.44), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.30), asn: 8560(1.60), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:15:03 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:00 +0000, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 29/03/2019 01:59, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > > I am led to believe that Sendmail is still around in the install image > > as well as the base install because some need a way to send out mails > > without having to install a package/port. Can't the same be achieved > > with "msmtp" which is lighter and easier to configure for simple tasks > > than Sendmail. Hope FreeBSD isn't hanging on to Sendmail due to some > > political issue like being the baby of one of the lead developers / > > founders! > > Note that dma (the DragonFly Mail Agent) appeared in FreeBSD as of 11.2 > (I think, maybe 11.1). It's basically an SMTP client for sending mail > off the machine, not receiving incoming. It can do local delivery too, > if anyone is still using that. When building jails I strip out most > "system" executables including sendmail and use dma if the jail needs to > send mail out. I also use it on headless servers, passing everything to > a smarthost. > > "man dma" for details. This sounds like a welcome solution. Could you send your mail locally to sendmail, and then have sendmail use dma to transfer it to the SMTP "incoming" server of your mail provider? I. e., what a mail relay / "SmartHost" usually does (even though with a different mechanism)? > What do we want? > A time machine! > When do we want it? Whenever we want! Always and never, as well as yesterday, today, and tomorrow, at the same time! :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 13:36:11 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C7A1568D05 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:36:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from gromit.dlib.vt.edu (gromit.dlib.vt.edu [128.173.49.70]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "gromit.dlib.vt.edu", Issuer "Chumby Certificate Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3ADC91A17 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:36:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from mather.gromit23.net (c-98-244-101-97.hsd1.va.comcast.net [98.244.101.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gromit.dlib.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 780E120E; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... From: Paul Mather In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:36:02 -0400 Cc: Polytropon , Michael Sierchio , mayuresh@kathe.in Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CE431C9-683E-423F-A0A5-D06C3363C411@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> References: To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C3ADC91A17 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="" header.from=vt.edu (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.11 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.62)[ip: (-4.54), ipnet: 128.173.0.0/16(-2.27), asn: 1312(-1.20), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[vt.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[chumby.dlib.vt.edu,gromit.dlib.vt.edu]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[97.101.244.98.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1312, ipnet:128.173.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:36:11 -0000 > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 03:56:38 +0100 > From: Polytropon > To: Michael Sierchio > Cc: mayuresh@kathe.in, FreeBSD Questions > > Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... > Message-ID: <20190329035638.db780898.freebsd@edvax.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII >=20 > On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:03:24 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: >> *kudzu@hearst:/bin 130>* ll -i | grep csh >>=20 >> 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 csh* >>=20 >> 198147 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 427888 Jun 22 2018 tcsh* >>=20 >=20 > The csh / tcsh is not the only system component known by > more than one name: >=20 > % hardlinks.sh /bin > 23621: csh tcsh <--- ! > 23627: ed red=20 > 23633: link ln=20 > 23638: pgrep pkill=20 > 23644: rm unlink=20 > 24944: [ test >=20 > It's important to note that by querying $0 or argv[0], a > program can change its behaviour depending on the way it > has been invoked. So a call to "csh" could cause the program > to do things differently than if it was called by "tcsh". >=20 > Of course this also applies to _any_ programs, being part > of the OS or being installed by ports. Indeed, this is the mechanism by which the /rescue system works: lots of = hard links to a statically-linked /rescue/rescue binary, which behaves = differently depending upon with which program name it's being invoked. = In the case of /rescue this saves a lot of space over having separate = static binaries. Cheers, Paul. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 13:38:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679A11568E63; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:38:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (relay5-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11C0691C2F; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:38:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail27.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.27]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5A1D21C000D; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:38:16 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Daniel Feenberg Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Message-ID: <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 11C0691C2F X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.07)[ip: (-2.60), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.53), asn: 29169(-1.23), country: FR(-0.01)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[197.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:38:47 -0000 On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports >> collection? >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we >> need to still rely on that? >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. > > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well > informed users. What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 13:52:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C831115697C5 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F5209290B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:52:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1553867565; x=1556459565; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=GeyTIim+u8ITfvHkB7+pNIpCfTOcs3gakMnEqM35BsM=; b=cfxdhWpTiXJkVeYU3kYZZiCn9YdO/sFXmVtNtMTN4RZ6iIwiDuEWm782MEZP6PO/J80uZVU5BCI88pMOLwey+GykQ2Vf4YV11/sNFWs6cKEy5XcvFyNe6kJmNZchL/ydfguBwy+1t5FD5fNDw0Gi+vLzf47sk5AEuCsRr2zZXyM= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYTcwMDAwMDE1MjJjZjYuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com [54.165.229.15]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:52:42 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:52:42 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1h9rw1-00053S-2f for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:52:41 +0000 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:52:40 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190329135240.6404f9a033e0c70279960432@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <1404f209-3b1f-4fa5-b8f7-56eef7f1fc40@qeng-ho.org> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <20190329035638.db780898.freebsd@edvax.de> <1404f209-3b1f-4fa5-b8f7-56eef7f1fc40@qeng-ho.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9F5209290B X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=cfxdhWpT; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.13 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mxbh.socketlabs.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.903,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.23)[ip: (-0.58), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.28), asn: 7381(-0.21), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:52:46 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:52:13 +0000 Arthur Chance wrote: > On 29/03/2019 02:56, Polytropon wrote: > > a) Make bash the default system shell, /bin/bash; this will > > probably make many people very angry and will be widely > > regarded as a bad move. ;-) > > Grey-bearded mobs with torches and pitchforks would ensue. :-) Indeed, make whatever you like the default user shell and few will care (as long as the one they use isn't affected) but the system shell is /bin/sh. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 14:01:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E071E1569A35 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 380BF92E1B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1553868081; x=1556460081; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=PIB8K0ZU3QvKglZwlu/XOsy6P5YsfgFDyNrpNuVz4QQ=; b=GSFevsOnKM8AI/lIbKBtSFi6NfbaQzTqbdNcQISk00Fe1gURBEh929+anDUBXCWkLzsKR4HdTQ42tRis+B6Sej1henCNytyJoXbpcrL1SUG5O8z3vtEROPxpoAihiXTGaQFnRTGQKFCFT/OFnSTsFPGruNT9ztVKtBgLzBabRUQ= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYTcwMDAwMDE1MjQxMTAuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r6.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r6.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com [52.40.216.92]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:01:14 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r6.us-west-2a.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:01:12 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1h9s4E-00057d-RR; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:10 +0000 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:10 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190329140110.3c7102ef876f3a1e58ea467b@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 380BF92E1B X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=GSFevsOn; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.00 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mxbh.socketlabs.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.21)[0.205,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.22)[ip: (-0.57), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.27), asn: 7381(-0.20), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:22 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:12:12 +0100 Polytropon wrote: > If you know an easy way to do the same as above, but with SMTP, The mail relay uses SMTP, if you need to pass authentication details then you need to use the authinfo file AIUI, I've never tried it with sendmail I use exim to relay outgoing mail from clients to an smtp relay - my ISP provides one but it fails to deliver to some places. > let me know. Since my provider stopped offering the mail relay, > I had to put the SMTP details into my GUI MUA's configuration Yeuch. > and now have to wait for the annoying progress bar instead of > the previously possible "click and forget", and I currently > do not have my own _real_ mail server... ;-) I wouldn't attempt to run an outgoing mail server doing direct MX lookup and delivery these days they anti-spam measures are a nightmare. OTOH reliable delivery relays are not that common either. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 14:12:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814871569F78 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:12:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gal.iecc.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0CB393DFD for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: (qmail 29841 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2019 14:12:42 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=748f.5c9e27da.k1903; bh=uuJ+3lsz+aoU/NJiqiraJEI7rWYH5Ix+/5DKkeY13x4=; b=T+QheqRLw5mZl5wy5t1Zohf1lKDdS4JYypovXZp+qyrYDXPmdJbySEg9V1LPrRDuTEYs01cmtCeNIndvsaWm4e+msBxXr/776BpkxZ41W0ea/MHpzpDWkIanW2pxWPCJ71cRksosTIzaG2AAZLxTrS5nb+FZ/leqTBn26WTKeiVDVD0mDHhvb3cMA8ESnnT5KuZr8bo8z7fh3uxdaXEfTLfX0A3FuloDRR/sMAm6QgKCB18L0NJdWKEb9PjdhuRR Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 29 Mar 2019 14:12:42 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8E0AC2010F2EB6; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:12:41 +0000 (WET) Date: 29 Mar 2019 14:12:41 +0000 Message-Id: <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd@edvax.de Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? In-Reply-To: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:12:44 -0000 In article <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> you write: >> "man dma" for details. > >This sounds like a welcome solution. Could you send your >mail locally to sendmail, and then have sendmail use dma >to transfer it to the SMTP "incoming" server of your mail >provider? I. e., what a mail relay / "SmartHost" usually >does (even though with a different mechanism)? No need. You can configure dma to send all mail to your smarthost, then edit /etc/mail/mailer.conf to use dma as your mail program. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 14:14:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E459A1569FE9; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:13:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE5C93E83; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:13:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mail2.nber.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x2TEDuqg033659 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:13:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:13:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Mayuresh Kathe cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... In-Reply-To: <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> Message-ID: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-KLMS-Rule-ID: 1 X-KLMS-Message-Action: clean X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Status: not scanned, disabled by settings X-KLMS-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: not scanned X-KLMS-AntiPhishing: Clean, 2019/03/27 10:29:33 X-KLMS-AntiVirus: Kaspersky Security 8.0 for Linux Mail Server, version 8.0.1.721, bases: 2019/03/29 07:55:00 #9476383 X-KLMS-AntiVirus-Status: Clean, skipped X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1BE5C93E83 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=nber.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of feenberg@nber.org designates 198.71.6.79 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=feenberg@nber.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.71 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[79.6.71.198.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtp.nber.org]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[nber.org,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.714,0]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26287, ipnet:198.71.6.0/23, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:14:00 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: >> On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> >> ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not >> always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. >> There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is >> better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to >> use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to >> different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well >> informed users. > > What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? I spend a fair amount of time helping people with computers I don't control and often they don't fully control them either. Having basic tools available in the OS allows me to help, even if it isn't the latest and best. I can't (or at least don't want to) install a new editor or shell on their computer, but if I need to modify fstab. ed is there, I can always use that - even if the terminal is wonky. Daniel Feenberg > > ~Mayuresh > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 14:15:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D46F156A138 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:15:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2418B941E4 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:15:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6586E1065D; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:15:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, mayuresh@kathe.in References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <78b9b0ce-b7cd-96f6-aeed-d9756f50ce80@qeng-ho.org> <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <4ab0d37d-e18d-f991-2729-1d055b50c7c0@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:15:39 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2418B941E4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.mythic-beasts.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.62)[ip: (-7.97), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-3.98), asn: 13037(-1.05), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:15:47 -0000 On 29/03/2019 13:14, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:02:00 +0000, Arthur Chance wrote: >> On 29/03/2019 01:59, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >>> I am led to believe that Sendmail is still around in the install image >>> as well as the base install because some need a way to send out mails >>> without having to install a package/port. Can't the same be achieved >>> with "msmtp" which is lighter and easier to configure for simple tasks >>> than Sendmail. Hope FreeBSD isn't hanging on to Sendmail due to some >>> political issue like being the baby of one of the lead developers / >>> founders! >> >> Note that dma (the DragonFly Mail Agent) appeared in FreeBSD as of 11.2 >> (I think, maybe 11.1). It's basically an SMTP client for sending mail >> off the machine, not receiving incoming. It can do local delivery too, >> if anyone is still using that. When building jails I strip out most >> "system" executables including sendmail and use dma if the jail needs to >> send mail out. I also use it on headless servers, passing everything to >> a smarthost. >> >> "man dma" for details. > > This sounds like a welcome solution. Could you send your > mail locally to sendmail, and then have sendmail use dma > to transfer it to the SMTP "incoming" server of your mail > provider? I. e., what a mail relay / "SmartHost" usually > does (even though with a different mechanism)? dma can be plugged in as a sendmail replacement by creating /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf (the same way as you use postfix or qmail). It doesn't listen for incoming mail, but apart from that it works. See /usr/share/examples/dma/mailer.conf or use my version arthur@arthur[4]> cat /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf sendmail /usr/libexec/dma send-mail /usr/libexec/dma mailq /usr/libexec/dma newaliases /usr/bin/true hoststat /usr/bin/true purgestat /usr/bin/true -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 14:18:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D37156A525 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D104950B3 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFEDE1065D; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:18:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? To: John Levine , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd@edvax.de References: <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <6990a304-0e28-2577-66ea-f72e0285926b@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:18:00 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0D104950B3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:18:02 -0000 On 29/03/2019 14:12, John Levine wrote: > In article <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> you write: >>> "man dma" for details. >> >> This sounds like a welcome solution. Could you send your >> mail locally to sendmail, and then have sendmail use dma >> to transfer it to the SMTP "incoming" server of your mail >> provider? I. e., what a mail relay / "SmartHost" usually >> does (even though with a different mechanism)? > > No need. You can configure dma to send all mail to your smarthost, > then edit /etc/mail/mailer.conf to use dma as your mail program. > I believe the "approved" technique is to create /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf which overrides the default in /etc. (As of 10.3 IIRC) -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 17:22:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFB6156FC8F for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 17:22:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dasha.g@eltima.com) Received: from mail.eltima.com (mail.eltima.com [188.40.191.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 022166FD68 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 17:22:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dasha.g@eltima.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f169.google.com ([209.85.167.169]) by mail.eltima.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1h9vCh-0007oH-Pb for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:22:08 +0100 Received: by mail-oi1-f169.google.com with SMTP id v10so2283356oib.1 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0Yohp1oNtyOHmE2AX5zw1hCgCtD4pPtvQGT/O7QcxGXgu1LnR wxK+YxdLHJVDFDi6jYLnYsfLZXGKUsIN9KH/CFI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzuO211RG8So5f1sVCNiWdnW/QZYPVfoWuvaTJBSBySYQZEKJ5BAaJoKRu9/iDKS8+nCqvrlAdBtTGDAsc6AmY= X-Received: by 2002:aca:5a45:: with SMTP id o66mr4436438oib.179.1553880126720; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dasha Gapich Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:21:55 -0600 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: I would like to advertise on your site To: Freebsd-Questions X-SA-Score: -1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 022166FD68 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dasha.g@eltima.com designates 188.40.191.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dasha.g@eltima.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.73 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ZERO_FONT(0.20)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx2.eltima.com,mx.eltima.com,mx3.eltima.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:188.40.0.0/16, country:DE]; INTRODUCTION(2.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.875,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[eltima.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MANY_INVISIBLE_PARTS(0.10)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.28)[0.284,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.10)[0.096,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[123.191.40.188.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.76)[ipnet: 188.40.0.0/16(-1.86), asn: 24940(-1.94), country: DE(-0.01)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 17:22:18 -0000 Hello! 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[image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 03/29/19, 10:46:52 AM *=C3=97*REMOVE <#m_3785062631490116072_> [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 03/29/19, 11:21:49 AM From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 18:01:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0DCE1570CA1 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B92D71503 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id m13so2048744lfb.6 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:01:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fbUUPKvMPG8wjlHWEr6RQ2WqiyBbE8Sm8WQ0Ii+APPk=; b=jO0N55TEpdrCVhFq6nxoL7pdc24ch6evZbbZ28ISQ5bB7tvjrUWcUQiSXZ1hx3578J wXe7WdbXgicLEsvuFfkhvEQrDgQrJX8XSkYxa5MbF1M7m26s19Di16pypWumW1oi8IhY 5iNWHjLV4JuM4skf0xhjfTTiBhGqK2E0h6r3yegbkOer3IeOlODkBsjZxhPJ0W9WSOsm YwjGK1HwZlteu724NWLF1wtdafGSTF4gpOmtLZYyj0a+XEo8fAdZmw4e2xkxKQFlFaGD XI1w6BQATj+HItZ5jc9qcYyYPxKgHDQWHqXUGWPHiWIzZ8e80sA7bxAVI8PbS738ZY1j 3DCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fbUUPKvMPG8wjlHWEr6RQ2WqiyBbE8Sm8WQ0Ii+APPk=; b=oI5VzmaujyqTDemonRI8rm8r1QzMYfiqg5CYtVukYdbRwxCu32zrz4oQVfw5XWzQ5U Pbwul4sehOXTg4rqxqcjIFc0xqtHFZufzjzgybRc0716aJghm1NoQi/VEylT8m3QaXAT PTys9G/cBhl2FGQWs7Xvn9ZqtFC7qVhitBcVEsCAhXiajSp9cCH+1PQcEDeQ16HErG69 25SFJkwgWSXv+6YB5gnhkNXQSb0XnO3I/kTjlSOFkz1Dhq8iiRxiRnzT2z+Md90AQGBc taM0TsZ1FKNN3cerOCHYtoUupRTxLkdoaYkoogNFILXdHuLzs8Cvcn3KumE7PL7JbmFx OjeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV6GhEGK4F4vydTapLxcmKLSrQG0BT0P7soQ6h6tsqqj2mngd2p DcBzm/0DnYNAch56NbXiYNbnC03y X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwjYrjp6evNUrjduBbPp2yGRTcT9VBWTommYJ0K6Mc9CmY34/i5h4h9JirEU1/GVVjt4Q8tbQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5396:: with SMTP id g22mr7958509lfh.120.1553882492973; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from komp.skl (178-37-85-254.adsl.inetia.pl. [178.37.85.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l16sm478469ljb.24.2019.03.29.11.01.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5c9e5d7b.1c69fb81.f9e1e.39f6@mx.google.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:01:30 +0100 From: Zbigniew Komarnicki To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 In-Reply-To: <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> <5C9BEEEC.1000404@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8B92D71503 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=jO0N55TE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cblasius@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::136 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cblasius@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.84 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.972,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.86)[ip: (-9.73), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:36 -0000 On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 17:45:16 -0400 Ernie Luzar wrote: > Is your em0 built into the motherboard or a plug in board. > How old is your motherboard. > > My em0 and em1 were built in on the motherboard. Had no problems release > 9 through 11. For 12.0 started having network problems. Disabled them in > bios and replaced with PCIE type plug in cards. Every thing back to normal. > > Just my 2 cents. > It is built into motherboard. I use this motherboard: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/CROSSHAIR_V_FORMULAZ/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 18:04:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C93A71570E2E for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7CB97186E for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:04:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cblasius@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id g7so2040854lfh.10 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:04:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KoJFsyLLX7C/0cNajtGOzaIBq8R5zUg6hNMZiDrd2ew=; b=EY1hXfB0dG5QzvIHTckLV2ju3WwE+hn7kKxTln1HRE6K/aWnY54FgFzotEcRbGNlrR 8Hr+5DhnlvpHw+5G0EJUopfCVJ2VEUpnrJfEmGknFlzxUS9PiCY0PnvPwI55omXie6ap ke6e+yWoW0JlgmOLO5Kir2rSkvJ7c4stx7LRz9apbrpH524n7pBKUhixxKhFTZh9MwN6 9ZbCj4YtjoKX5Ujx4L7EFGF4OOyFP2PIY4T3QECkJls+tulGY7WowMInHzHPtjIck48Z EFcxid6WM/sbn/RIg8KJbKqOPoLJc61H8B7XNVpgjuELXimxotkQd28rh3aFLnla266w 8uvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KoJFsyLLX7C/0cNajtGOzaIBq8R5zUg6hNMZiDrd2ew=; b=VkbDX6Y9apRxAkyAmAr7cFg/5qN5E65ZOeizWSJ64YtxhzN5dCqGwDftgvKuRaN2+m FHTDjwVdy8AMniEv2etIjoLObicRtcYqIijLEr0rBU5WwrSmQEO9TTYXHmNVgi2k8o+8 ZRv5b2Op0uBgG1mdjptI7eILFOBSDhpoSxEkUErm73WFNoVqoAbZqAnCLoLlG63m7oer JiU6Bh4tPrn3+yExhOPZpRiZrTs8Kl631z/OZOVQAkm9GC8b55chfCTwugB0ryEZeYAL ewUBeRkdAqkaHrNf+0/mp6hNKtQyVxWsUutY4rYjNrh1t2XHGtNzfBNH2ImWOTsZa11T By9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWpijczzjFIu/wAerqzqTPhA4V/SJmoV6kwf0a7ZEvvLNAKhA9Q 3CCQV5d+XYPedHXQ+09/vujkwYyI X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzAN2ZBufpR2CpjKiD1PvTAYl03EqlkFgLLU6k3eu/tYIPPaTBQMLuyc8xd0hOKvzGZY4x3Vw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:54bc:: with SMTP id w28mr20917462lfk.127.1553882676011; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from komp.skl (178-37-85-254.adsl.inetia.pl. [178.37.85.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g24sm406458lfb.49.2019.03.29.11.04.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5c9e5e33.1c69fb81.b9ad.3021@mx.google.com> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:04:34 +0100 From: Zbigniew Komarnicki To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Hans Ottevanger Subject: Re: Problem with interface em0 - fresh install FreeBSD 12 In-Reply-To: References: <5c96799f.1c69fb81.74cc2.dac1@mx.google.com> <23702.35084.819136.353611@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5c9bbfbf.1c69fb81.b1d8d.b066@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A7CB97186E X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=EY1hXfB0; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cblasius@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cblasius@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.77)[ip: (-9.29), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:04:39 -0000 On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:41:10 +0100 Hans Ottevanger wrote: > This suspiciously looks like bug report 235246. See: > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235246 > > The issue seems to be resolved in 12-STABLE. In your case maybe you > could work around the issue by disabling msix, as suggested in the > comments to the bug report. I.e. put > > hw.pci.enable_msix=0 > > in /boot/loader.conf and reboot the system. > > Hope this helps. > > Kind regards, > > Hans Ottevanger Yea, it is! Thank you. Now my network card is working. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 23:19:02 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7C215567FB for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:19:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA080872DE for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:19:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (router.lan [172.30.250.2]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0FF33C0B for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 9696B156E423; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:18:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? References: Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:18:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Mayuresh Kathe's message of "Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:07:05 +0530") Message-ID: <44imw19sm9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BA080872DE X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.87 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.84)[0.836,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.92)[0.922,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.08)[0.080,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.09), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.07), asn: 7922(0.10), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:19:02 -0000 Mayuresh Kathe writes: > Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC > was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating > the switch to Clang/LLVM. > > If PCC was considered but rejected, may I know the reasons and > rationale for the same? The standard compiler for a POSIX system has to be able to build its kernel. PCC has never come close to being able to do that on *any* operating system with which I am familiar. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 29 23:23:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369211556BC5 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:23:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB7987785 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:23:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (router.lan [172.30.250.2]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC27833C58 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 27664156E423; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:14:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> (Mayuresh Kathe's message of "Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:20:43 +0530") Message-ID: <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9DB7987785 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.33)[-0.328,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.74)[0.741,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.92)[0.919,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.09), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.07), asn: 7922(0.10), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 23:23:26 -0000 Mayuresh Kathe writes: > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? Probably pretty few people using it any more. Remember that it's actually just a different flavor of vi (same executable), so getting rid of it would be silly. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:51:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B095C155E5F8 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:51:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82A3E8FD8F for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M5fUw-1h2tMB1fIY-007GEg; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:51:13 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:51:13 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Lowell Gilbert Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? Message-Id: <20190330035113.65fc995f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:SHV0lEmrKJO6AzYWKVvFmgcmIrhOoMNBPCxsGhz7MxSjy4YDXUv ecoUA7et6IgYVe/Umjd2GQSdk4GWSeQ+v3P4CGqO9BihvPQxvu265AdroalaqQSzp4iZDmz u0QFpNJCIcDgVTsnoYBHImi9aVc1xLQ6DmV8lg+QQK2YFAr1RyUAhkkaXmzVQG2V0Y6B3Tj 8AhcddQ8GecWE4KWIFelQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zei4VOcCTJ8=:2IlubwcYc2KUX+CT+dTt2P ScU5XVMcMwh4w08QAgJDjvnFk2X5/vdMe4IbbXMrjNmBRM0fMwQY+CnUBiaxODb8u/3X1oHf5 9q6IO2FbV0DE27+HTy8kwXnIETqtx6MBQPLTbK7y65VdvWuTZk5mjVCuoJ/vQI2qvrdyZ9bVS GmHm4A2qEU4bpApWPgVQr9cGYBjbIZsoLLU4ILqY5af9F0stBDvvIlA9W21+8i7uSykBd1ytt 4/AxKdgbay5E8iTipWYhpCKauD3vKrAu7d6omj61snJASx7zZlP5qqDxlX1gyXW2Vk9DBbxi4 oJO5nOrDED74IjtfaHJ85X18Fxevfe0ZQYcIc+fXjt7PMLlgPZJSljKP3o25R6RzeY9zud/+6 37+hPiRfZESfyO9OH5LnbZlo818/B/nxBrzdV7AwfKKzyarQb91JX/oYWx8vPcsCMIRfdyWpz gZ7NbazbL349X4TiMJ+5wpDJXmxtqNhzCaBaRZcoxEgxWef9XaDyuqP4Hp352A4OYthaEKham bepOUplUFCL4JTLJq76mrCcsLk2i+yLFqD1LMobr/FuCdb54Qkd+wUuB9dPYbf9XrZtZ19QHQ n19s0kJJsAaq6vjlyICUJbC2/j0osT5ibXF4EQsJncws+B3qdMm8CFgy3i8zO69lc1CEv5Md4 C0aCbhgddd6aLaNGXdNcx5JJKxQAH69kJFqxS3p0xzxxEKIkxCfT5ZyfJp9MQ1YaFK+UOg/ry Net78kWqsZFyMh2mwXqG4Grgy4mUAITFxy+PS+2A7Yr4+2Ac1N7p2CUSiws= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 82A3E8FD8F X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.84 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.70)[-0.696,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.025,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.964,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.16)[ip: (0.51), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:51:22 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:14:11 -0400, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Mayuresh Kathe writes: > > > Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? > > If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over "vi"? > > Probably pretty few people using it any more. > > Remember that it's actually just a different flavor of vi (same > executable), so getting rid of it would be silly. I think you're confusing vi and ex here (which are the same executable), but ed is something different (a different program). But I think the reason for this confusion is that using ed feels like using vi's ex mode or the ex standalone program. :-) % hardlinks.sh /usr/bin | grep vi 825093: ex nex nvi nview vi view Compare the locations: % which ed ee vi ex /bin/ed <- the standard editor /usr/bin/ee <- easy to use visual editor /usr/bin/vi <- the "normal" vi /usr/bin/ex <- the "ex mode" vi The standard editor, ed, is the only one present in / (which /bin is part of), whereas the others are located in /usr, which _might_ be a different partition, not accessible in a worst-case scenario where you only have / read-only and nothing else. Of course, this is mostly only historically important, because you won't find "functionally separated partitions" based on UFS very often, and modern partitioning approaches as well as ZFS typically don't have that kind of problem. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:39:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F709155DF85; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:39:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C01C18F626; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:39:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MgzWP-1gTHoT1aGr-00hMyl; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:33:44 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:33:42 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: Daniel Feenberg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2vBnmBbiDShRLum7bmU1Ff9W666vPb4XhoAh2rTlznXFN9csHgP DWv81tD5ZY4dXvTj58gc0Anf6KB7aFy4U1dkuvc6ujwFmTJuRX1xTyPruBXulP4EVnzJIYt nJDWdKRf7S0wYZPjB8gfPr5ul/lZEOOEsqXAmM+/GvORxrWjlHNNpZUZOiud1pprb3K7VrI wTO05356I+c/yuU84CQ6Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:oVk+frAU+HA=:KP2NUgWsmPldipK2vlGHnN wbE0aGCKlIh3xW4H9YltEfS6eicZdddDJCzF2ACYbBBEHpGldjeUSH0+DzMFQMJYJ4wxtU7qq 1fSDG5x4F4FC/5khCSf9KrZbFB661kZm2sjV6ojxrRbZ7AFMzx4rsZpr6c6SoikcFQwUGEvi9 pYVKsElqwnhWsj4KxIMPezytsYsOlKQiOzpkhqqnrBSqJrURo2XqG1hQ7FO/Oq6QMTCTU7EOw XHvSwEMCxko9laq0aBooGkVbNrzn5UvOWI7Sgb1V9qKKhcXiOoTN1HPVyuhLjEcNpyCXTEf5e nuDzq5s/MfQnFQ5ttAEYILmPlJBMKXliA7JFym35EcdIQ+9dyDKC+3+qBYLPTwEpeGcF7sh6S Ddyly7uN+ROJrxt7CmD+B0oXMlw5pcCktBVHE87UfEoRo7gFMMeJF1YgkD8echRyYulhbYIzU r0Bni4TwMPTtrjwh2CULqcBREJQZVN5h3PVZv7DT2nDDqoOHqyVBoGafuEuhSzDGCPI9F1WCO Wixg6nDjrHWn5Kz/iWSyP+l8ClPzDL2o+7qwhaPrmjN9CpfcwEAgEBRJpglYlYyrc0VCT+8f9 gmFGkHvlDIk+ltwZwRb7pe83HC02PyYz/woU/LcA1ufLeRzEdo47xz26/GKVvUdBqlrMC4B+V 7sCNINbL/2m6COt8sNAWQOSCfjRQRGyy/tKJyw/ucujeZHNMJpI6TwVZoJ15C8Kn0KU1hT8a6 DWkWRlW+oZ004eD4x8I4wE7DUPt0Q+lHIZ8wQBDJbul7dBZyxy+2QQYyZjE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C01C18F626 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.64 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.884,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.84)[0.843,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.53)[ip: (2.37), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:39:14 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > > > >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > >> collection? > >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we > >> need to still rely on that? > >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full > >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" > >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. > > > > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not > > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. > > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is > > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to > > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to > > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well > > informed users. > > What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? The core problem is an educated consensus about what should be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools and demands. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:43:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE77F155E315 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F44F8F9B7 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mbzhv-1gX9aA2KUB-00dahk; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:43:29 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:43:28 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "John Levine" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd@edvax.de Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190330034328.2ecbd2c8.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> References: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:fk9qe89y5s5NybpYmjcioqBsITH3Wl+5IEjZ096q96pqR1JtCIw G/6NobbMncANj4OfANaZybQ8Q63M4VAtiWAIGSwzz+45JZofN5lLt2luhoWtnoDzC+6uGQM CQG5VijN48g9NmgPq0MiOzO29N2pdy7gGz2PDoOKD4damPny/DKuGi1DDqc25K2QvwlFJQC 7MZB2MXVn+CR8HLjrSgDw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zaoBHHudJ9I=:tEq2X5zMdSzGGkEWMVP2BV xswtC4jrSstIqd1wWwG1hr6lteaKABHTjatN4x1zwrNVRfaf66w/OJ+Il1wKVoBf8F04peTPt VfWYMJKc8ALJcB7iUnyr9uzQmugBwWeezPLR9GEB66/r0eApBuHsP2yE30f4/8TUcLRu5bBnG xcNbeiNRkSZrl+q9VIGHOgPvi5LfRZTN9WlnYDCgTtRUcj2xIEm/IqzqR6vtOVw4n21pbxE0z E949sSkinlPxzn9wgzcQcrIjXXzgehkZCQv+tqxLZX3Ia1uMH+PNHUWgvjfOx6sxBU5cTpjY4 YL8bRAkzPojrceJy6DaVqjA/PvCjCOfVOzyO+UIihRhRRM9sthczcP+ax8PSqH5JBri/9/nlU 3x3hak/whLT02iHPGBCf/7VnrWOHyxl+Zf8bOR9bD39bWBUXych8v9ypm3SqkDXoH0M6f5H9X X0ifcPZDtc8wxHXYopnPmdVf9JgML4HU1SfkSXDKbQrMBCMaVw7s93oQCjwcJaQi7TUhXA+vS 9tX6o5bCPOVKl9xDFHsjjP2TmiqXY59QkroYmXQRIdK9XsDPsm6rSILkn93ac6o/RDSoV+s1n B8o72xoEhnkKNAxOO/kaya8G+r01j0xO/+vWWMI1cdIL+rOIbjRQ6itqr5vukW8iA4uKjj1Nh KCRLXxk81dRZQwPhDiQ30HrpxtZswFrZ/WQJgDZjaam1Z14OP+naxXZjaazEeDJCiXQwU+7AD 9ipi6O64XH7FoT4BTCASul6ft1SNh68SHC3tOdACS771UZVCQgzH7fgvzaQ= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3F44F8F9B7 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.974,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:40 -0000 On 29 Mar 2019 14:12:41 +0000, John Levine wrote: > In article <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> you write: > >> "man dma" for details. > > > >This sounds like a welcome solution. Could you send your > >mail locally to sendmail, and then have sendmail use dma > >to transfer it to the SMTP "incoming" server of your mail > >provider? I. e., what a mail relay / "SmartHost" usually > >does (even though with a different mechanism)? > > No need. You can configure dma to send all mail to your smarthost, > then edit /etc/mail/mailer.conf to use dma as your mail program. Sorry, maybe I didn't write my current problem in a more precise way: The SmartHost option (mail relay provided by ISP) is gone, I have to "directly contact" the mail provider via SMTP to get messages out (through their system). This is what I'd like to get sendmail doing, i. e., MUA submits locally to sendmail instance, sendmail (or something invoked by sendmail) opens SMTP connection to mail provider, sends messages, logs successful sending. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:41:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1113D155E139 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:41:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1954E8F7A2 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:41:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MbAYi-1gYXJq1hrE-00bfSC; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:41:14 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:41:14 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Polytropon Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-Id: <20190330034114.54ae2511.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190329140110.3c7102ef876f3a1e58ea467b@sohara.org> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329140110.3c7102ef876f3a1e58ea467b@sohara.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7ugL5qmEYtgnG0Fug43fvDJml3Xjm3fwg/RusnlEMhqBHOuxG5t 8w5yDMKWH40WwdcOGhwKqWg+JSejoLg1R/49G2M5aJnYct7ihbDp2ESQjKD+2/QXv2PPxF1 3IXlDghBzurZJoErIFhc47vJyfHzoZmPceXjtKqR0Przibt1AzGbEf+oMw7glVOltMyXVb2 NlTD+goYJyL9wdRMpp+yQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Ciww1vKu3u0=:qWq8+bCFwF7aSp/C5XMGWx dkJerdlYNNX15Nxm498Q4RYrCkeo27noNF16ZaIMcZTQNb3M+6OwwsnqFVj0qs1VSSpqMNLIf MYGsiDII7RJj/EvlE+kUSLxcnYdK33/O6Sa3kA8HNsDxukEMHjNlwrFYL/oJvYIXERfrKlcrA OIwB8dSL/1F/WeicHpU45mx+TMcnUf3Dgs1goC65Php8gsZ/s2aoqtzcPIahnxFk8BhRZuOUL YkkdmNSZVz3IhIZZjEm163yNcZkA27zQW78VU8pi+Va5LrIjMkimofPSLfoWPedak1VJnwEmu 5elDh+bAT30mr+/Rr9gvRGQeXpcKvTpwqeQxBtCS5z7MoMa9GBIDP5EEPkw0QQaj+sr6CHsUF ygsP0fLX1RohEbPNlP4hbeip9+vAs7JqGu+ZSQXZZt5obvjStJkiS6USAYoxpBZ31nQ+RqsMQ LhPhdeJdeo7WgOi6RE0WqEudjrDISbTw0o1/GUQDAlQnqdDEhElXFhbsYxymMdoYycLKhmlqS KfMu5IadMypaPYvVzgkYuqP0/OJW9nd6u+YGBMSpL/J9IAXoqKjDBznHqWUoYCMYjNoTUjDKB 5u+ymauM9scZAeeIEoBPoesB7UTBOOABil3+Ym13gQEqhGEEu6iemgkpnkeJhk2vAd+QAI5s5 kf2mfHWduSlBSDeQFmyPdeg9PP9iV2X0N5P0W1669F0F31UuAgcap1FWdDJETJ5eVqecXEmCx nJuQLgE95nhYyeCZ0RiHknvCu16Ta5WK3CzSbVi3DXE0fY/7ovUflNy54Ww= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1954E8F7A2 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.87)[0.867,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.83)[0.833,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; IP_SCORE(0.67)[ip: (3.07), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:41:18 -0000 On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:10 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 12:12:12 +0100 > Polytropon wrote: > > > If you know an easy way to do the same as above, but with SMTP, > > The mail relay uses SMTP, if you need to pass authentication > details then you need to use the authinfo file AIUI, I've never tried it > with sendmail I use exim to relay outgoing mail from clients to an smtp > relay - my ISP provides one but it fails to deliver to some places. In my specific case, there are two providers involved: The Internet (connection) provider who provided the relay, and the only authentication they needed was "source IP must be one of ours", so it was very convenient and worked even when I got a new IP address (dynamic allocation). The mail provider (a different one) provides IMAP, POP3, SMTP. This is the one I now have to "contact directly" via SMTP from within the MUA, and I found out that what I took for granted for decades was just a nice gift of my ISP. Let's say I compose a message with attachments, click on "Send", swoosh, in less than one second the encoding is done, and the mail is out. Read: Out to the sendmail doing everything else (contacting the MX and sending the message) in the background. Now I can watch the progress bar slowly crawling while the GUI mailer sends the message via SMTP to the mail provider... This is not normal! :-) > > and now have to wait for the annoying progress bar instead of > > the previously possible "click and forget", and I currently > > do not have my own _real_ mail server... ;-) > > I wouldn't attempt to run an outgoing mail server doing direct MX > lookup and delivery these days they anti-spam measures are a nightmare. > OTOH reliable delivery relays are not that common either. Yes, it's not as easy anymore... You have to fight "we know better than you!" providers who consider every IP from a dynamic range a spammer, even though their own ranges are full of compromized "Windows" PCs that spam the world. You also have to "earn trust", especially from providers like GMX, Hotmail and others which are known to be commonly used for spam. Then you also have to deal with certificates, signatures, anti-spam mechanisms, lists, and all that stuff that didn't matter decades ago. This also isn't normal. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 01:52:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3375D155CB96; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:52:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E32CC8E404; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:52:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail19.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.19]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 90829C0002; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:52:42 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:22:42 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Lowell Gilbert Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Message-ID: <6474bff0d0c6582f324d74c753e26bbd@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E32CC8E404 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.88 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net,spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net,spool.mail.gandi.net,fb.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.853,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-1.62)[ip: (-5.33), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.52), asn: 29169(-1.23), country: FR(-0.01)]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[198.183.70.217.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:52:47 -0000 On 2019-03-30 04:44 AM, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Mayuresh Kathe writes: > >> Are there still people on this list using the "ed" text-editor? >> If yes, is it just for kicks? Or is there any real advantage over >> "vi"? > > Probably pretty few people using it any more. > > Remember that it's actually just a different flavor of vi (same > executable), so getting rid of it would be silly. I wasn't aiming to request it's elimination, but rather wished to learn and master it. Lucas has written an interesting book about it, couldn't get around to it due to lack of motivation. :-) ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 01:58:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7674155CCAA for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:58:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (relay12.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5BF18E583 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:58:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail19.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.19]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5ACE1200006 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:58:23 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:28:23 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Why very little documentation on "ifunc"? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Message-ID: X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C5BF18E583 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.178.232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.04 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.919,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[232.178.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.71)[ip: (-0.82), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.51), asn: 29169(-1.22), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 01:58:32 -0000 Ever since I stumbled upon "ifunc" I have been unable to find good enough documentation regarding it under FreeBSD, that was till "Ed Maste" pointed out; https://jasoncc.github.io/gnu_gcc_glibc/gnu-ifunc.html "ifunc" seems to be a really good tool, wonder why it isn't as well documented as rest of the stuff under FreeBSD. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:43:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27921155E31E; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net (relay11.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 740C28F9B9; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail19.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.19]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9DAAB100003; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:34 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:13:33 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Polytropon Cc: Daniel Feenberg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 740C28F9B9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.178.231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.96 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.853,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.69)[ip: (-5.69), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.54), asn: 29169(-1.24), country: FR(-0.01)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[231.178.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:43:44 -0000 On 2019-03-30 08:03 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> > >> >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports >> >> collection? >> >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we >> >> need to still rely on that? >> >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, >> >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full >> >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" >> >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. >> > >> > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not >> > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. >> > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is >> > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to >> > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to >> > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well >> > informed users. >> >> What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? > > The core problem is an educated consensus about what should > be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages > usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or > (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for > reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't > work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should > definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable > interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always > install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools > and demands. But the basic operating system tools would include the Bourne Shell (sh), or as you'd stated previously, in the case of FreeBSD, the Almquist Shell (ash). Isn't "ash" interactive enough for most people? At least I have found it good enough for my day-to-day use. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 04:09:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093E11561E17 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:09:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (relay5-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ADEF6C814 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:09:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail19.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.19]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 38AF91C0004; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:09:35 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:39:35 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why very little documentation on "ifunc"? Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <20190330042940.ed91d5f6.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20190330042940.ed91d5f6.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: <4ab839e063955c1d3fa3cfca312ef29d@kathe.in> X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7ADEF6C814 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.183.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.62)[-0.617,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[197.183.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.06)[ip: (-2.52), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.53), asn: 29169(-1.24), country: FR(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:09:39 -0000 On 2019-03-30 08:59 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:28:23 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> Ever since I stumbled upon "ifunc" I have been unable to find good >> enough documentation regarding it under FreeBSD, that was till "Ed >> Maste" pointed out; >> https://jasoncc.github.io/gnu_gcc_glibc/gnu-ifunc.html >> >> "ifunc" seems to be a really good tool, wonder why it isn't as well >> documented as rest of the stuff under FreeBSD. > > From what I see, ifunc is part of GCC, and FreeBSD does no longer > use GCC as the system compiler (after switching to Clang/LLVM). > The case for ifunc documentation therefore has to be discussed > primarily in the context of GNU development tools. > > https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/GNU_IFUNC > > Of course, Clang/LLVM also has (limited) support for it: > > https://clang.llvm.org/docs/AttributeReference.html#ifunc > > So this is nothing FreeBSD-specific which should be covered by > OS documentation in the first place. But it could maybe find a > place in the FreeBSD Porter's Handbook. Not really, as "Ed Maste" had pointed out to me, "ifunc" was only _designed_ by GNU, the "ifunc" implementation under FreeBSD is completely native to FreeBSD. I was first directed to "ifunc" by someone called "kostik" on the freebsd-tech mailing list. I could find nothing about it under the FreeBSD documentation or even via Google, but that was because I was being FreeBSD specific. I asked "Ed Maste" about it and he shared that URL I had put out in my first email. It's sad that an advanced technology such as "ifunc" is not even documented in the Developer's Handbook. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 02:59:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0932155EA2E; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C88E6810D; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mz9pT-1gnZCs3OAV-00wCTl; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:58:57 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:58:57 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: Daniel Feenberg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:u5gdP3orG4V5pXJs64FYanmJiLKj8F0n4cb5Me3k7wwg0EJ1FH8 RdwQA7amWt8ZBiJIU2JJYN12AGYV12OKfiFXnInfh5vvXVQKCYHH5teh/AZgkOHWl7vlNlt OIKJsGd5J15PZeuAGRWm+EP4GHHiZJ1kEVhwH0bHp9//UGR081CeWuueULLbwaW9kQ/IJAQ q+eUWRLJqkj4nQPI7zFhw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Bu6S+eBEiOk=:jK6VxKjncmWtUJz7ktXX6y QbUtN2mjikUcWaS8/QgVPPAzZgiHPFzxk2PYIseXp9R7N/KMc6q61+wRx01PlA+RG1C9ncHV1 ngcbS8ybL02Dwwmhwjg3vpGH2t6G8/UcWy814aOSXMXoUXny7ooZNlIUaPgTOvdgrVft0zukd r4aafK1MIUKsJdxTmsjtgAn64Pkm80vW3tKnhKlF0mTQGNDzo5oe+EL0UBLyqSapgSQJXXX5m eirXUteyah3fMe7eRT2KAulOfl0pJh3b8ZKVchmIAiaOWJK3KZuz/KC4zQbi7HVWLmDAwyJLY SCYy2PhXP8QgrMMJed6mXNMAWC4OnpepFv8zSObH+cUvda3fPbERuNQEZbINXBrYC3z+lN5yP UISoYqHxqMpZcsYnHxoorr/hViiyCI1mQD/6p9ERmE/hDvEEFXsBACVnALVm6BEpq3LBcIA7c cNFMFWslX4ktPIj8GIYH2I0EiYUmR1AS4OCZeElDTHiUcul4E+SLdpmhYClyq28PrMnUOndNT CzJ99PcGQQiiGCGaCoqdu5Nlt8y1k/ExYDSFs8DMttAN0KoxWpvCQnjki17CCTm8UwEN9M9Wv QbieBIQNH/l7EACFeloyNo6aUGp/58yATYWaSdMehPdUUjvJfaxi9r47cNxu7mbsXDcyogD1d Yl6o9muDVd+ttMSEGWhC4DqvM6zfQgXe+9HQWmgaEyW7E9Q3xlzK61BJG11Mnj4Iv0BlEonrY AKFpyoPo2uEUCSGJ7gVZXNTQTXg3E/n7gzq8c28Kpnyp7RL9ypp7YLIt+qs= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7C88E6810D X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.91 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.97)[0.965,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.905,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[133.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.65)[ip: (2.96), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.31), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 02:59:01 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:13:33 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-30 08:03 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> > > >> >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > >> >> collection? > >> >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we > >> >> need to still rely on that? > >> >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > >> >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full > >> >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" > >> >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. > >> > > >> > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not > >> > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. > >> > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is > >> > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to > >> > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to > >> > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well > >> > informed users. > >> > >> What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? > > > > The core problem is an educated consensus about what should > > be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages > > usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or > > (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for > > reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't > > work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should > > definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable > > interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always > > install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools > > and demands. > > But the basic operating system tools would include the Bourne Shell > (sh), or as you'd stated previously, in the case of FreeBSD, the > Almquist Shell (ash). Isn't "ash" interactive enough for most people? No. This shell is traditionally a scripting shell. The only occassion where you would use it is after a severe system crash, and even from that point, you'd probably just start the C shell for better interactive features. I hardly know people who use sh for more than "csh" (to start csh). On most Linux systems, there is one shell both for scripting and for interactive use, and it's usually /bin/bash. FreeBSD differentiates between scripting use, where the POSIX-compliant sh is used, and interactive use, where the C shell is the traditional shell, but a user can of course install and use a different shell. The scripting shell _must_ always be accessible, and FreeBSD provides an interactive shell which also always works. It's important to understand that a custom user shell might not be available in single-user mode, in a condition where the system can only operate in a very limited way. That's why it's still valid to say you should not change root's interactive shell to something like /usr/local/bin/bash which might cause trouble logging in when /usr or /usr/local cannot be accessed. That's what the toor user is intended for. Sidenote: Some historical UNIX systems actually used the C shell for scripting to bring the system up into multi-user mode. Luckily, this is not done anymore as scripting (!) in csh is terrible and confusing. :-) > At > least I have found it good enough for my day-to-day use. You are actually using /bin/sh interactively? Not that it's impossible, but... well... why use sh when the OS provides you csh whose interactive features are much more advanced and customizable? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 05:13:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55EE2156435E for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:13:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.189.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A3226F1EC for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: mwXTIkQVM1m8Lnh7azX9PABDVeEZU8dyQJHYAm2x37umcnteFHColPXCM.PVJie 9GIrEmwzYK6PeAlq53Am3qo5Xr78oeyWaMLX5tssjFs1AUxNfQUczpg7hqociCMrvtHjn69hw7cC FaXPbE7GBnZ634VhyH7WiBkGzqENjna4faIx.Bli_RGwa0UYMGzUB1c3OFnhtijjqWfdIljN5MV7 o_3gudUPKYnw7m.k2Ikgcy9s3zo2A0UtQz0W8A9tnCg_gymU0nYZTHQQXwJDs5PCAiqLPgx7Ep_U xt2GxnabmVUmw_NgJmgGTdZUWwo2TPuSNRjbN.O0JAOWDJY7Tstu06J7y..aH.YWBtG92MCADgM1 T5B9GeAPsJgg8z7rP1Kzjk5KGYU3wp4JsgV0gDGUsFR_a4n3oiVaL7SRx6Kf3mANOYsUtFxnX8nl t_58aqx34jGsQGueQwerMVagOI_18H2rxtSYiwDCW0tkTxJiIqTwm91P8eyvqSCANtuuQEFL3XHU KZAmgl66eHxBwQ0wmDgEPtIb7dB4uTLXHqpgduahXHxZNxI.PFtb0rZhZ0rtkOebihK7aWctV1ku YTAVP1O_d4Y.r8vTfw98w6MoAcFUM1mrIlAVxenDwBdimTVzb_5_dR9R8E2bjpFq5cYaY9Pyacdx qzTgVaTv1VNJpESiS.vv2NrkV.Fa0YpLQ4VFmYcFK5_zv4zs8Q_GySMcObOi3SMTMIvgKZ8pQRV0 9lT3SqZoHRuVtEcbbvYnrtVMqul4pMZxYYH8wwJlmfq1uQ8oHUS7tiZ6tpu5jCWpIyMYkGgEKLP1 yEVsSLmTYDCMbqvZaLef_sjxq39XyhhW9j5ZqzPnEvNzWQpb16Cs81hSCvCu6fdd8PY46fzrQ3Xn kyCx99qOuaMk5_O0SIZRWP1nERPgxnFLqER03msLTpP4TbpA3i2HgRH20sif7o6q39p74IamP37w S.YzH2bAflw38jNsHvqgS2y3X9e70uID6COGTLaScJIh4soiFlfmDtfKt.1RG5K.TVQz9HxL9YGJ Mz9Iv7tzBsloNKCpRMtXGncjliRzZJGDsORq5Y8yKvibFAHvIGXokOsbEN.ps8l1npZJ1.Hkg7NQ p5YSTC4VHAoBn7WMhbVaJq9qgalv5sw0- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:12:54 +0000 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:11:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Mayuresh Kathe Message-ID: <1393052012.13903125.1553922667456@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: Why very little documentation on "ifunc"? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13212 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:66.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/66.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9A3226F1EC X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.959,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.51)[0.507,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.895,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.189.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.39)[ip: (4.91), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.18), asn: 36646(0.95), country: US(-0.07)]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:13:03 -0000 Hi, Simply put, it's part of the GNU tool chain.=C2=A0 Most (if not all) of Fre= eBSD's user space is POSIX compliant and a lot of things that are no longer= 'optimal' have been rewritten to be more efficient.=C2=A0 As time went on,= it seemed to me that most everything GNU was getting well, slower and larg= er.... and 'extended' beyond POSIX.=C2=A0 Added functionality is nice at ti= mes, but when you expect something to work in a certain way and someone has= added features or written something in BASH and made use of those extensio= ns, well, it will only run under BASH.=C2=A0 However, anything written to c= omply with a 'standard' such as 'sh' scripting, will run on anything with s= h as well as bash. Extending functionality makes things non-compliant with the standard.=C2=A0= Examples of this in the past was Microsoft adding their extensions to JAVA= which made it incompatible with all other standards compliant versions of = Java. Another example would be the Oracle Database SQL and/or MS SQL versus the P= OSIX compliant DB known as PostGreSQL.=C2=A0 Anything that runs on PostGreS= QL will run under the others (well, pretty much) but the reverse is not tru= e especially if the are proprietary extensions. More examples would be gawk vs awk, gsed vs sed, etc.=C2=A0 The ability to = move in both directions is no longer true.=20 With the advent of putting in LLVM CLANG compiler, most of the GNU toolcha= in has been put in the GCC port.=C2=A0 Now, since it is a port, a lot of 'p= orts' and their pkg counterparts are just templated to fit into the the /us= r/local/ hierarchy along with modifying some simple files for start/stop ma= nipulation.=C2=A0 This includes all of the man pages that are not written b= y FreeBSD but by the people who created the software.... for example a lot = of the GNU utilities have man pages that just aren't as well-written as the= constantly reviewed man pages on FreeBSD. Although people can be enthusiastic about writing something that they want = the world to see, the FreeBSD project seems to be excited about churning ou= t a good product that in all aspects exceeds most peoples expectations.=C2= =A0 No one is scared to run a x.0 release from FreeBSD.=C2=A0 It's due to a= n ongoing QA and Release process and the simple ability to not push out cra= p code to meet some artificial deadline.=C2=A0 However, other OS or even ju= st kernels from other projects scare the heck out of people on release.=C2= =A0 The amount of bugs, exploits, etc.... are an order of magnitude or more= .... and no, it's not because no one uses it.... If you look at who is basi= ng their products on FreeBSD, it's pretty obvious that they are 'The Unknow= n Giant' of operating systems. P. On Friday, March 29, 2019, 11:00:55 PM EDT, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: =20 =20 Ever since I stumbled upon "ifunc" I have been unable to find good=20 enough documentation regarding it under FreeBSD, that was till "Ed=20 Maste" pointed out;=20 https://jasoncc.github.io/gnu_gcc_glibc/gnu-ifunc.html "ifunc" seems to be a really good tool, wonder why it isn't as well=20 documented as rest of the stuff under FreeBSD. ~Mayuresh _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 03:29:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FEC155FF0A for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:29:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 941FC6AC68 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:29:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N6bPS-1gsoRu0NAs-017zg0; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:29:40 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:29:40 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why very little documentation on "ifunc"? Message-Id: <20190330042940.ed91d5f6.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mJiTaQMBq262PCj9z7kJ0Ph7ehxeq90mitAZyWK9XkAIXzi+Ewj 6vQhynnIBg+2Oyc+qgdhlMHkRpqKPrjMZt8rlNZNsoJvvdKsI1i2JHuuVNvzaPP8H6WT3yU 6nmw4dkRmQr3rxTIDYv8Wfk5HlT74G8ldhnyu6Dj74/kmtVvW/I1T/vFg38TmcQd4KQ7lZK VoTa/+sJeyDDnwSDmi+7g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:O3J7RupfxLM=:/8E4oMqgExlG7sEvQHFSE8 aMgZpMInhn8S8tjBEruEjlTN6uHzyF07nj7/hcShLqZzRbiUI5etElGz42LlTSlPcNz9eccel N7moOHY91AHzNrExQ0epV7g84yES1+ZXS2BHIlBeghpO1hVWeEzNAytYkJouMA8x3Py/Fe2jU C5z0AQl6+vWnLLeaezUry4orhPQ+6JVpKfqfiHuxm3tKwt5KaxJu+ogY2TS8SjnJSxFyAGZYB 47+HELgQlksC1PR85+OpDkH1TlAyWhCDZb/U3ESkbwvZ3BwZYogNdjhEHnWTZhO6Gk70J0s+7 okTS7dQ6yPBfQX3y691PjMMvtJK+ybZscZ/+6rfRk4bkPPhLoQxw4yUVdtbAL8JJhHual5r8M TAyxkFd1bs79k6XDobDbXJN8J+qWizyQJx7jgYSr39tDqWrta8rvelOAZnOjvu/09h5aLbZz/ wFVl5+SQeVrBULmQsJPPXFtp6yBy0TJ++lXq/Fo+VZDrj3VOwxRDebzK8g+HzUD6yVbn7Dt9h ORI+uB26fFKYVxEibmJQuIj2dLaJir2J/ag7rRfnLT7HGrKfJaMeAG1H6duqSjeFHwKt7iA7h HuKoiowrdKHv/6Oc+MNocbj3eJvQAQYcRbUXPQLqUFO/ZH0kb5OgkPvZnxZ1OWe1oFoW+afu8 BUt7EWqeIz4km58qZsUJxEgJE4TBx7VJoVMPHA+g/9Y8p/yvJJyINtQdEiaRVP1tIVQakwsEc 7LbpmHAV6KJ8mRG9vyNvfjw9RBqiTA2fnyAjDOTxCt3s7+Ejj0dQMsOOrgE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 941FC6AC68 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.36 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.51)[ip: (2.29), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.30), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.861,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.59)[0.591,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:29:44 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:28:23 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > Ever since I stumbled upon "ifunc" I have been unable to find good > enough documentation regarding it under FreeBSD, that was till "Ed > Maste" pointed out; > https://jasoncc.github.io/gnu_gcc_glibc/gnu-ifunc.html > > "ifunc" seems to be a really good tool, wonder why it isn't as well > documented as rest of the stuff under FreeBSD. >From what I see, ifunc is part of GCC, and FreeBSD does no longer use GCC as the system compiler (after switching to Clang/LLVM). The case for ifunc documentation therefore has to be discussed primarily in the context of GNU development tools. https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/GNU_IFUNC Of course, Clang/LLVM also has (limited) support for it: https://clang.llvm.org/docs/AttributeReference.html#ifunc So this is nothing FreeBSD-specific which should be covered by OS documentation in the first place. But it could maybe find a place in the FreeBSD Porter's Handbook. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 04:15:42 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F7351562197; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:15:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net (relay11.mail.gandi.net [217.70.178.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B93F6CFE0; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:15:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayuresh@kathe.in) Received: from webmail.gandi.net (webmail19.sd4.0x35.net [10.200.201.19]) (Authenticated sender: mayuresh@kathe.in) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8DCD9100007; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:15:38 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:45:38 +0530 From: Mayuresh Kathe To: Polytropon Cc: Daniel Feenberg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in Mail-Reply-To: mayuresh@kathe.in In-Reply-To: <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: X-Sender: mayuresh@kathe.in User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0B93F6CFE0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mayuresh@kathe.in designates 217.70.178.231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mayuresh@kathe.in X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[231.178.70.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.70.176.0/21]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kathe.in]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spool.mail.gandi.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.44)[-0.439,0]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[mayuresh@kathe.in]; IP_SCORE(-1.80)[ip: (-6.19), ipnet: 217.70.176.0/20(-1.56), asn: 29169(-1.26), country: FR(-0.01)]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:15:42 -0000 On 2019-03-30 08:28 AM, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:13:33 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> On 2019-03-30 08:03 AM, Polytropon wrote: >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> >> On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: >> >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports >> >> >> collection? >> >> >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we >> >> >> need to still rely on that? >> >> >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, >> >> >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full >> >> >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" >> >> >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. >> >> > >> >> > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not >> >> > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. >> >> > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is >> >> > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to >> >> > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to >> >> > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well >> >> > informed users. >> >> >> >> What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? >> > >> > The core problem is an educated consensus about what should >> > be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages >> > usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or >> > (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for >> > reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't >> > work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should >> > definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable >> > interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always >> > install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools >> > and demands. >> >> But the basic operating system tools would include the Bourne Shell >> (sh), or as you'd stated previously, in the case of FreeBSD, the >> Almquist Shell (ash). Isn't "ash" interactive enough for most people? > > No. This shell is traditionally a scripting shell. The only > occassion where you would use it is after a severe system > crash, and even from that point, you'd probably just start > the C shell for better interactive features. > > I hardly know people who use sh for more than "csh" (to start > csh). > > On most Linux systems, there is one shell both for scripting > and for interactive use, and it's usually /bin/bash. FreeBSD > differentiates between scripting use, where the POSIX-compliant > sh is used, and interactive use, where the C shell is the > traditional shell, but a user can of course install and use > a different shell. > > The scripting shell _must_ always be accessible, and FreeBSD > provides an interactive shell which also always works. > > It's important to understand that a custom user shell might not > be available in single-user mode, in a condition where the system > can only operate in a very limited way. That's why it's still > valid to say you should not change root's interactive shell > to something like /usr/local/bin/bash which might cause trouble > logging in when /usr or /usr/local cannot be accessed. That's > what the toor user is intended for. > > Sidenote: > > Some historical UNIX systems actually used the C shell for > scripting to bring the system up into multi-user mode. Luckily, > this is not done anymore as scripting (!) in csh is terrible > and confusing. :-) Actually, looking it at it from a different angle, "csh" scripting would be ideal, because then one would need to know only one _style_ of programming, the "c" style. That's what I love about "Plan 9", it's shell "rc" uses a "c" style scripting system and the shell is also quite interactive. >> At >> least I have found it good enough for my day-to-day use. > > You are actually using /bin/sh interactively? Not that it's > impossible, but... well... why use sh when the OS provides you > csh whose interactive features are much more advanced and > customizable? I don't know why, but I find it peaceful to use "/bin/sh". Probably because it's so small, so ancient and so well documented. Plus, I touch-type at a very high speed, so any mistakes, and I can re-type my command chain effortlessly. ~Mayuresh From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 04:48:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2FD15635C3; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:48:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69E3D6E48B; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MSKq6-1hYCNl3eOG-00Sfat; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:48:26 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:48:24 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: Daniel Feenberg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Message-Id: <20190330054824.541c1bff.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:4DsDTqTgkIFGQAsIwwXqcNGV9VHchj0wRwD8Y2PXusvsdrOxlhu FNBx9TFW4NQFZRK4LUJom2i2WhBdbIdFnBXEflpDjMuJ6GV0m6WyYkl7y5DTo3BYGo0UGSH ffWnB24jr3uIrbooTs2jCIVUn07BAdm4FZTG8Nf9VzWLeOWBkwt1GXCjjijy6Sgz09eTpGl AQk/GEU6Z+mf6MmXQ/xvg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:wWNRO5dMX+4=:JFLQmU5KT0IcuyxT0V5Ka1 1kt4Tiry0+PHVq0bvNi86txnecE1FfHI0CVEoQjWsl0HnXx3+7FIYYbgx/tOVwvdhMMZULxJR //lXr0S1FpkC3266yEK2MrbyKK/WWb47X+CCb1QS/xCa1MvybXzdK3QEDVsSBH8pQQl6aiugA jUH6Xyv5vzJgogvN2hHhfDpKKCFFr5k424AKXCfGGHPDESDpHB2aB9/F+OTfetc10uxujwf4e kuXK4sQC6yPvV/Vbdbfq4551cYbwNJyRR6jRAD4CDX/zh//BRpeQl8/g+b+6O1yqL4C2DKESy Xmr8bpO1ddGHcG65qE9DJ+mWpjmQMhZXLqGOYzk4PhoDAI7fQ5Ke+RpgIdC09402OKxp+Hv84 Dv3hzlXnGyivbTZUTrz242TiU1755wozOw2zfsbz1oVIxD1tKoUeiA5t/kNwR77zeAjQG59za j4K/wxMbRJ0iZwT84A/5wgg0OxPkt8GgflghOoNPvHmv2Ki8TpRtF8jy74WdT0wIh8TtltU/y UUOPg9KS1MGKL2FhScxMJooAI3DuDYzA5PLSXxbRr+FaQIqVm5L2X3KVtEINwG81/sOtIGNyc 4fmtWTcLcARxY/Hl+2WVsqfljPN51VPBOWOivWe7ENOQ7R0N0Kt0KjqCAAN2rYy12oH8WyMP9 gb5MVSGt5Wtfulc4t8t3rky+DXpv+JQv9cJ31iP80xlVGAeQB6zyMPkFoqBXRuZgJNKXwtSwx mcyY+Lz0lCgybd2iYQs0RGGOcrnUhjgqeDjJ0vmecjHuOk9Q+zfzjIdsvZo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 69E3D6E48B X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.65 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.05)[-0.054,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.991,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.986,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[75.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.34)[ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.11), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:48:37 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:45:38 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-30 08:28 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:13:33 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> On 2019-03-30 08:03 AM, Polytropon wrote: > >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> >> On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > >> >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to packages/ports > >> >> >> collection? > >> >> >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, but do we > >> >> >> need to still rely on that? > >> >> >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, liked it, > >> >> >> but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor is as feature-full > >> >> >> as "bash". To top that, the installer asks me to choose between "csh" > >> >> >> and "tcsh" in-spite of being the same binary. > >> >> > > >> >> > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not > >> >> > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the OS. > >> >> > There is a fallacious style of argument that decodes to "If a is > >> >> > better than b, then b is no good and it is a sign of bad character to > >> >> > use b". There are many cases where the transition costs of moving to > >> >> > different dependencies will be significant, especially for less well > >> >> > informed users. > >> >> > >> >> What if you had access to your preferred tools via packages/ports? > >> > > >> > The core problem is an educated consensus about what should > >> > be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages > >> > usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or > >> > (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for > >> > reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't > >> > work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should > >> > definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable > >> > interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always > >> > install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools > >> > and demands. > >> > >> But the basic operating system tools would include the Bourne Shell > >> (sh), or as you'd stated previously, in the case of FreeBSD, the > >> Almquist Shell (ash). Isn't "ash" interactive enough for most people? > > > > No. This shell is traditionally a scripting shell. The only > > occassion where you would use it is after a severe system > > crash, and even from that point, you'd probably just start > > the C shell for better interactive features. > > > > I hardly know people who use sh for more than "csh" (to start > > csh). > > > > On most Linux systems, there is one shell both for scripting > > and for interactive use, and it's usually /bin/bash. FreeBSD > > differentiates between scripting use, where the POSIX-compliant > > sh is used, and interactive use, where the C shell is the > > traditional shell, but a user can of course install and use > > a different shell. > > > > The scripting shell _must_ always be accessible, and FreeBSD > > provides an interactive shell which also always works. > > > > It's important to understand that a custom user shell might not > > be available in single-user mode, in a condition where the system > > can only operate in a very limited way. That's why it's still > > valid to say you should not change root's interactive shell > > to something like /usr/local/bin/bash which might cause trouble > > logging in when /usr or /usr/local cannot be accessed. That's > > what the toor user is intended for. > > > > Sidenote: > > > > Some historical UNIX systems actually used the C shell for > > scripting to bring the system up into multi-user mode. Luckily, > > this is not done anymore as scripting (!) in csh is terrible > > and confusing. :-) > > Actually, looking it at it from a different angle, "csh" scripting would > be ideal, because then one would need to know only one _style_ of > programming, the "c" style. The core problem with the C shell is that it has several implementation flaws. There is a document by Tom Christiansen, titled "Csh Programming Considered Harmful", summarized: The csh is a tool utterly inadequate for programming, and its use for such purposes should be strictly banned. You can find the full text here: https://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/misc/csh.html Personally, I once (!) wrote a C shell script, and this particular script is still working, but I would _never_ again do something like this. :-) That being said, sh (Bourne shell) has become the de-facto standard for scripting, and with the POSIX compliance, it allows you to write scripts that can be run on any OS that provides a POSIX-compliant sh implementation, without needing to test for the OS name, the shell version, or a specific feature. > That's what I love about "Plan 9", it's shell "rc" uses a "c" style > scripting system and the shell is also quite interactive. Even better: rc exposes the "everything is a file" metaphor of the OS in a convenient way, so many things can be done with tools that operate on files, even if that file represents a network connection or a remote audio device. > >> At > >> least I have found it good enough for my day-to-day use. > > > > You are actually using /bin/sh interactively? Not that it's > > impossible, but... well... why use sh when the OS provides you > > csh whose interactive features are much more advanced and > > customizable? > > I don't know why, but I find it peaceful to use "/bin/sh". > Probably because it's so small, so ancient and so well documented. > Plus, I touch-type at a very high speed, so any mistakes, and I can > re-type my command chain effortlessly. Same here, but I'd say that about the C shell, with only a few configuration tweaks to make things appealing, instead of the work I would have to invest to make bash behave in a way comparable to certain csh defaults. :-) By the way, the zsh is often considered the most advanced shell, as it incorporates all the advantages of existing shells without also inheriting their annoying behaviour. It's well documented and highly customizable, but works very good even with only the defaults. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 04:57:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276691563A83 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:57:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BAC66E91D for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:57:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.193.229.77]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MFslN-1hAs4J0Brz-00HQ6n; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:57:00 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:56:59 +0100 From: Polytropon To: mayuresh@kathe.in Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why very little documentation on "ifunc"? Message-Id: <20190330055659.7a816d84.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4ab839e063955c1d3fa3cfca312ef29d@kathe.in> References: <20190330042940.ed91d5f6.freebsd@edvax.de> <4ab839e063955c1d3fa3cfca312ef29d@kathe.in> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bzLfAdLEwGAToNYww2TIgLD3WpntnkB0s1v5qbxVVI2KD5xw6XV N8uihGeF3gLpMIpRvONy5mybHc37DDYSX/nC/psOKvXlJUN/0A/1YPq2iTmFTZmD1D3Wo+r YR0hPgxJL/qVHUQVao1hy+s3Gy0mO65UaZRN2S8rIO/8InVJ2h21gIj5k6opEsrtXslxamp nbbgD4MaBwFkgoF//rCTA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KNzzARsDDjg=:E8se0HWgYLII7KHWo5d3qz yZrPYVZTvuvY+2UUSU1rsR7ZLTYGUW/fMx9PAIn9oSZJHX253vhdKf7Xvo9r3Doga8zKuGbzV kmSZrF98pXIPEzisFy7/CPpTfAF9+iH+4ZRCmPp24cv0xZsQ05uVHoJLSmkmpnaUYC3IEsluq Kz8/aat+2hjTWSfqSFbuFvIfiKZWejPVtOwnioJylMfA0HBKVZnGvFJ5j6uK7HXQ/l3wtFFOG 0jrTzU5io3gmq874YQZZOCLhcUsVCA9JrmkvyJsPhCCvJQm1/74lNX0KTUz3AEqie2+gegqPY eDVaT/mLfPatVWE412Ckxss3Kv56QaKOQ1BqiJroRNokalZHZ5SG/TM9q820XphYEKYWabNS5 lIbxKAqB1uhY9ExEW32UfvwRYGPiG9Il0g1b+r4Q4nSJ0UDH92V+Ix1JHED7MAXP8q0xtnO/m wOv0Zknk5g8KD43WhTJNd1uAx0JwHgvPTX96Wcmbw+DFXUAF+a/HkEMqPvE4Gc6n0vZ7Q9f39 vFJBX0htH98z+R6FquOUyMeK/h3hk1NefjKxMBdy5w2D58n2LZUn6fA85kX+pYrEW6xKi2U0S XgOSFZ9F+cdFIlX00R8KA0yCpzjGy4Hs/lGxPU1lGx7G5N/wQ/zigO6Qq+uRZNADDKRqxk+1Y BVSqlL28ANA9XtkTMshqQzQdGBepVWmEZpzW1iYzmi2pWRn4n9VR7MgtN9ptnWD66/4QN0QUv IZc5brHeHGGHdNxlrMcf2BO2bEPbMGMXrDMV1lodLajeGrmm+ylUuVuDJmU= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BAC66E91D X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.54 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.24)[ip: (-0.48), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.10), asn: 8560(1.59), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[77.229.193.92.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.05)[-0.052,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.964,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.995,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[74.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:57:10 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:39:35 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > On 2019-03-30 08:59 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:28:23 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > >> Ever since I stumbled upon "ifunc" I have been unable to find good > >> enough documentation regarding it under FreeBSD, that was till "Ed > >> Maste" pointed out; > >> https://jasoncc.github.io/gnu_gcc_glibc/gnu-ifunc.html > >> > >> "ifunc" seems to be a really good tool, wonder why it isn't as well > >> documented as rest of the stuff under FreeBSD. > > > > From what I see, ifunc is part of GCC, and FreeBSD does no longer > > use GCC as the system compiler (after switching to Clang/LLVM). > > The case for ifunc documentation therefore has to be discussed > > primarily in the context of GNU development tools. > > > > https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/GNU_IFUNC > > > > Of course, Clang/LLVM also has (limited) support for it: > > > > https://clang.llvm.org/docs/AttributeReference.html#ifunc > > > > So this is nothing FreeBSD-specific which should be covered by > > OS documentation in the first place. But it could maybe find a > > place in the FreeBSD Porter's Handbook. > > Not really, as "Ed Maste" had pointed out to me, "ifunc" was only > _designed_ by GNU, the "ifunc" implementation under FreeBSD is > completely native to FreeBSD. Yes, that is correct. As I said, it originates in GCC, but Clang/LLVM implements it, partially: Not all targets support this attribute. ELF target support depends on both the linker and runtime linker, and is available in at least lld 4.0 and later, binutils 2.20.1 and later, glibc v2.11.1 and later, and FreeBSD 9.1 and later. Non-ELF targets currently do not support this attribute. So current FreeBSD has the required support for this mechanism. > It's sad that an advanced technology such as "ifunc" is not even > documented in the Developer's Handbook. True - it should at least be mentioned there, and including some links to the relevant documentation of "the two big compilers". -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 08:39:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD5A156AC9D for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:39:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A1AD75E75 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:39:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CC4E6B48 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:39:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:59a8:23c4:502f:6110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E67A5AC for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:39:51 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/6E67A5AC; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> <20190330034328.2ecbd2c8.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Matthew Seaman Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 3A3m3u8bdsFp40DlIrBtSByVjqERxcfhphrEB4J8BXHUG7OAtXkZMlW/PGKDwXJq0O6Z5Tcg YHAoEiSWbXiexHgXNJyP+sqnIlhLWhSJGeJ+C83wqI6oYlZUCW00NkPxcIHnQPV/z+5wQVci TMyaWC2YCIHz4Ljs+TnwWMz0E8PNFDfHVbQ0W4PRGV7gRAqxfL+yKufauIEGbEq8rNDbSwL3 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boundary="MlYJJ5vxk98VTrwTiq9QiZMYRPBPQhMxI" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0A1AD75E75 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:39:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MlYJJ5vxk98VTrwTiq9QiZMYRPBPQhMxI Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="llBCxu1qSS4qZZgdzHJCIzEiEvWxoQ2Kx"; protected-headers="v1" From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <83c77622-990e-e89a-b1f2-af3bbe7c0027@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? References: <20190329141453.f2f7326f.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329141241.8E0AC2010F2EB6@ary.local> <20190330034328.2ecbd2c8.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190330034328.2ecbd2c8.freebsd@edvax.de> --llBCxu1qSS4qZZgdzHJCIzEiEvWxoQ2Kx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30/03/2019 02:43, Polytropon wrote: > Sorry, maybe I didn't write my current problem in a more > precise way: The SmartHost option (mail relay provided by > ISP) is gone, I have to "directly contact" the mail provider > via SMTP to get messages out (through their system). This > is what I'd like to get sendmail doing, i. e., MUA submits > locally to sendmail instance, sendmail (or something invoked > by sendmail) opens SMTP connection to mail provider, sends > messages, logs successful sending. This actually exactly parallels the situation for FreeBSD committers who want to use the FreeBSD mail infrastructure to send messages from their @FreeBSD.org accounts. Funnily enough there's an e-mail conversation going on about this very thing right now, which has lead to this new section in the Committer's Guide: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committers-guide/con= ventions.html#smtp-setup However that only contains instructions for use with Postfix so far, but watch that space as it is entirely possible that sendmail and/or exim instructions will be added in the relatively near future. Although, personally, I'd recommend ditching sendmail and installing postfix instead. Cheers, Matthew --llBCxu1qSS4qZZgdzHJCIzEiEvWxoQ2Kx-- --MlYJJ5vxk98VTrwTiq9QiZMYRPBPQhMxI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAlyfK1VfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5OeV5BAAhtEmVfGmSpwRKu68namAAijYzQar8Ys6RgC8cln+XGoSFXIWNVP+0Pod veNtZCOBA3ZSklBOeIry5cN1oHUln53U/qAlWDQAD3HSDBDQ/JK3l6CtdeTZhCV/ nAoHCp+FwwSEi0bf3Ngtmlu6BJtz4sXolASsYK/oo7I7e4ChfaWLSNSCE1ksfTjY YOt7T9xEIr4hKmlSfC0/60U+S7UxXdARUdpgrHFZdPPP42Cb3PoAImpDpK62+9xp Xf3yBjzZr6h8qy3iQBVjdDK1hsaz29ng5PFoFPIbdUzO3xo0rTH0rXWZkJ4103FH 6PPjnokhPt/Vw0AMBEUVAu34Puj91OkzkGTvMU1vb0YXt6kTdTtmSKDlysyV7cE3 g8iU7KoO6md5nGvq+MHq8GPWGWm9RdPx1SykUmIDqXvbtrNbmQ19L668u5D1gJIc eCgWh5HFj1Zyd2CgYNDy/LUKxaqapzEyudSQ1m5HhWu9Uh9k2oiCTwPstw9Dlb55 fq/Gd8fWagAgUJNDddODMU60YpmN4u3LYzya4G2TyTjM08r4skY6A+FLH0u/mmD3 tKH9sXfZOLofRQtq6i8VQ2SYR8EhGUDbdCrK2JCx7CGmQ68xU5uWnXJpUHgz/vit uP66zv45k4rncylL640Bp4t5GxoP4l/JFvmHSf6v5xptuyV9lM8= =Cofi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MlYJJ5vxk98VTrwTiq9QiZMYRPBPQhMxI-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 10:08:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639BD156D65A for ; 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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:36:27 +0000 Received: from MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.96.60) by CO1NAM05FT042.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.96.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1771.6 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:36:27 +0000 Received: from MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7176:ea53:f443:76b6]) by MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7176:ea53:f443:76b6%11]) with mapi id 15.20.1750.017; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:36:27 +0000 From: Carmel NY To: FreeBSD Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Thread-Topic: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Thread-Index: AQHU5uzQYIb6wialHU21J79OpSWvwg== Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:36:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190330054824.541c1bff.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20190330054824.541c1bff.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: FreeBSD Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: BN6PR08CA0055.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:404:b9::17) To MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:72::8) x-mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:96086E43CC6214AF8000C273675168EBB54F6EE62EEA138ABD3C15F17A7DE3F4; UpperCasedChecksum:35F14E16B16837D9A3F055512A2F84B58269707357BBA13A346B71A04C3B3A20; SizeAsReceived:7857; Count:52 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [GVZ42K89vrrN3xHaefA1IJtgFIf1hA9P0YGYEsIY3ew=] x-microsoft-original-message-id: <20190330073604.000044d8@outlook.com> x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 52 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(20181119110)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:CO1NAM05HT083; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1NAM05HT083: x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: CfzS6RYNE/RRFfQ5QDgLvrn48enNAqh0KEWu6nMxB6KOQoL77u3HiF+7zACejghy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2B81B9A2A3AF0643A08E53112C8EC87D@namprd04.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 444c0e38-aed7-4dec-1f09-08d6b503f23a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Mar 2019 11:36:27.8483 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO1NAM05HT083 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0D47784082 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=eg4E4LCV; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=outlook.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carmel_ny@outlook.com designates 40.92.14.94 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carmel_ny@outlook.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.05 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[outlook.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[outlook.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[outlook.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[outlook.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[outlook.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.98)[ipnet: 40.64.0.0/10(-2.59), asn: 8075(-2.23), country: US(-0.07)]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[94.14.92.40.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 11:36:37 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 05:48:24 +0100, Polytropon stated: >On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:45:38 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> On 2019-03-30 08:28 AM, Polytropon wrote: =20 >> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 08:13:33 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: =20 >> >> On 2019-03-30 08:03 AM, Polytropon wrote: =20 >> >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:08:16 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: =20 >> >> >> On 2019-03-29 04:59 PM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: =20 >> >> >> > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: >> >> >> > =20 >> >> >> >> Since Tcsh is usually imported, why not send it to >> >> >> >> packages/ports collection? >> >> >> >> I agree that "csh" is an historically important artifact, >> >> >> >> but do we need to still rely on that? >> >> >> >> I have been using "csh" ever since I started using FreeBSD, >> >> >> >> liked it, but it doesn't feel light like plain old "sh" nor >> >> >> >> is as feature-full as "bash". To top that, the installer >> >> >> >> asks me to choose between "csh" and "tcsh" in-spite of >> >> >> >> being the same binary. =20 >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use >> >> >> > both, not always, but enough to see the importance of >> >> >> > keeping them in the OS. There is a fallacious style of >> >> >> > argument that decodes to "If a is better than b, then b is >> >> >> > no good and it is a sign of bad character to use b". There >> >> >> > are many cases where the transition costs of moving to >> >> >> > different dependencies will be significant, especially for >> >> >> > less well informed users. =20 >> >> >> >> >> >> What if you had access to your preferred tools via >> >> >> packages/ports? =20 >> >> > >> >> > The core problem is an educated consensus about what should >> >> > be the default content of the OS. Access to ports or packages >> >> > usually implies that you have (a) the installation media, or >> >> > (b) Internet access. In cases where this does not apply, for >> >> > reasons like "didn't think about that", "our Internet doesn't >> >> > work", "Security! Security! Security!" and more, you should >> >> > definitely _not_ be left with an OS that doesn't have a usable >> >> > interactive shell or an editor. The mentality of "you can always >> >> > install it afterwards" should not be applied to basic OS tools >> >> > and demands. =20 >> >>=20 >> >> But the basic operating system tools would include the Bourne >> >> Shell (sh), or as you'd stated previously, in the case of >> >> FreeBSD, the Almquist Shell (ash). Isn't "ash" interactive enough >> >> for most people? =20 >> >=20 >> > No. This shell is traditionally a scripting shell. The only >> > occassion where you would use it is after a severe system >> > crash, and even from that point, you'd probably just start >> > the C shell for better interactive features. >> >=20 >> > I hardly know people who use sh for more than "csh" (to start >> > csh). >> >=20 >> > On most Linux systems, there is one shell both for scripting >> > and for interactive use, and it's usually /bin/bash. FreeBSD >> > differentiates between scripting use, where the POSIX-compliant >> > sh is used, and interactive use, where the C shell is the >> > traditional shell, but a user can of course install and use >> > a different shell. >> >=20 >> > The scripting shell _must_ always be accessible, and FreeBSD >> > provides an interactive shell which also always works. >> >=20 >> > It's important to understand that a custom user shell might not >> > be available in single-user mode, in a condition where the system >> > can only operate in a very limited way. That's why it's still >> > valid to say you should not change root's interactive shell >> > to something like /usr/local/bin/bash which might cause trouble >> > logging in when /usr or /usr/local cannot be accessed. That's >> > what the toor user is intended for. >> >=20 >> > Sidenote: >> >=20 >> > Some historical UNIX systems actually used the C shell for >> > scripting to bring the system up into multi-user mode. Luckily, >> > this is not done anymore as scripting (!) in csh is terrible >> > and confusing. :-) =20 >>=20 >> Actually, looking it at it from a different angle, "csh" scripting >> would be ideal, because then one would need to know only one _style_ >> of programming, the "c" style. =20 > >The core problem with the C shell is that it has several >implementation flaws. There is a document by Tom Christiansen, >titled "Csh Programming Considered Harmful", summarized: > > The csh is a tool utterly inadequate for programming, > and its use for such purposes should be strictly banned. > >You can find the full text here: > > https://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/misc/csh.html > >Personally, I once (!) wrote a C shell script, and this >particular script is still working, but I would _never_ again >do something like this. :-) > >That being said, sh (Bourne shell) has become the de-facto >standard for scripting, and with the POSIX compliance, it >allows you to write scripts that can be run on any OS that >provides a POSIX-compliant sh implementation, without needing >to test for the OS name, the shell version, or a specific >feature. > > > >> That's what I love about "Plan 9", it's shell "rc" uses a "c" style=20 >> scripting system and the shell is also quite interactive. =20 > >Even better: rc exposes the "everything is a file" metaphor >of the OS in a convenient way, so many things can be done >with tools that operate on files, even if that file represents >a network connection or a remote audio device. > > > >> >> At >> >> least I have found it good enough for my day-to-day use. =20 >> >=20 >> > You are actually using /bin/sh interactively? Not that it's >> > impossible, but... well... why use sh when the OS provides you >> > csh whose interactive features are much more advanced and >> > customizable? =20 >>=20 >> I don't know why, but I find it peaceful to use "/bin/sh". >> Probably because it's so small, so ancient and so well documented. >> Plus, I touch-type at a very high speed, so any mistakes, and I can=20 >> re-type my command chain effortlessly. =20 > >Same here, but I'd say that about the C shell, with only a >few configuration tweaks to make things appealing, instead >of the work I would have to invest to make bash behave in >a way comparable to certain csh defaults. :-) > >By the way, the zsh is often considered the most advanced >shell, as it incorporates all the advantages of existing shells >without also inheriting their annoying behaviour. It's well >documented and highly customizable, but works very good even >with only the defaults. There is a fairly comprehensive comparisons of the various shells available on wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_command_shells For the record, the first thing I do when doing a fresh install of FreBSD is to install "bash" and make it the default shell. Its documentation is some of the best I've seen and the bash forums are always available to assist you. --=20 Carmel From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 13:49:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939DA15511CE for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 13:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FE2988CEE for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 13:49:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C2F1034E; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 13:49:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Was PCC ever considered? To: Lowell Gilbert , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <44imw19sm9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <0f13de52-46b7-acab-83c4-e128bf20ba7c@qeng-ho.org> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 13:49:06 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <44imw19sm9.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FE2988CEE X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.32 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.mythic-beasts.com,mx2.mythic-beasts.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.492,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.52)[ip: (-7.64), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-3.82), asn: 13037(-1.04), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 13:49:15 -0000 On 29/03/2019 23:18, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > Mayuresh Kathe writes: > >> Since FreeBSD uses Clang/LLVM (which is kind-a huge) I wondered if PCC >> was ever considered during the GCC days or even while contemplating >> the switch to Clang/LLVM. >> >> If PCC was considered but rejected, may I know the reasons and >> rationale for the same? > > The standard compiler for a POSIX system has to be able to build its > kernel. PCC has never come close to being able to do that on *any* > operating system with which I am familiar. It happily compiled Unix from the Seventh Edition from Bell Labs through to 4.3BSD on the Berkeley branch and I think SVR3(?) on the AT&T branch. -- What do we want? A time machine! When do we want it? Errm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 14:50:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F461553457 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:50:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160058AE21 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:50:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (router.lan [172.30.250.2]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CF533C0B for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 0F383156E423; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:50:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:50:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Daniel Feenberg's message of "Fri, 29 Mar 2019 07:29:07 -0400 (EDT)") Message-ID: <445zs0a01u.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 160058AE21 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.37)[-0.371,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.894,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.55)[0.549,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.09), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.07), asn: 7922(0.10), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:50:46 -0000 Daniel Feenberg writes: > ed and csh are important for those that use them. I use both, not > always, but enough to see the importance of keeping them in the > OS. ed and csh are both specified by POSIX, so they would be sticking around in pretty much any case. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 14:54:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C4515538B3 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6115D8B1F7 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:54:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id g3so6124086wrx.9 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EG01O1FcJ84vK8Vf1Ihw/xceDFlkaj+WvagW79DOoiI=; b=D1kwtdtKAnr4mrb654uIBoqmroHjO2iWmEkUtuBh4yZQxuBV0qsTg2ADhsQiLPyCYl quPIfI9jmN8lkx86fd/V3J3XysGMYI6fGxubx6S6h3SUvr5BcSunQAGaJfReZJyXs1Bd fznbO0PhpdsfQkuYibKQKgziUGUvPhS+nB15XFVJGnhnlsGBVvzxEej757NakTJnXIPD /DFYy2jb9FBpOBLZTDygIBMrBS6e3w7a/nDwd8M+jhWQVRflyUVBc1U2ddYyven32+ae zMs4TlleQl/gnd/BQTIEGW4zD3t0TeCn/lmYgFw4n3aq4K74hse2LzP/T0TXJb9lSVax UjBA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVGkIdLA6ElxqahTf9eybNv08YOkUpoEwsmRk6prmu81Jt8yxCJ DdWdoV9bFUSCH/bDjmUxgycfeaE0brM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxB6HrGZ3gx1PZQPI0otYDqsq4totrqBgPJHsTJiLwE/lsL51S8ucTD0bzL5VBC8M+nAg71qQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f7cc:: with SMTP id a12mr11923534wrq.87.1553957653197; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([90.195.212.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b11sm5413121wru.61.2019.03.30.07.54.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 30 Mar 2019 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:54:10 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Message-ID: <20190330145410.17cfd72d@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20190330034114.54ae2511.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329140110.3c7102ef876f3a1e58ea467b@sohara.org> <20190330034114.54ae2511.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6115D8B1F7 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.74 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.960,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[226.212.195.90.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.77)[ip: (-9.28), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:54:17 -0000 On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:41:14 +0100 Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:10 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > I wouldn't attempt to run an outgoing mail server doing > > direct MX lookup and delivery these days they anti-spam measures > > are a nightmare. OTOH reliable delivery relays are not that common > > either. > > Yes, it's not as easy anymore... You have to fight "we know better > than you!" providers who consider every IP from a dynamic range > a spammer, They pretty much have to. Most spam is caught by simple DNS based tests which rely on assuming that no dynamic IP addresses sends direct to MX. In particular most blocklists can't distinguish between a spam source and a dynamic address, because an infected machine can cause hundreds of dynamic addresses to be listed. There are some services, like Fastmail/Pobox, that don't block senders just because they are sending directly from a dynamic pool, but they aren't really doing anyone any favours because they still apply Spamhaus XBL. > even though their own ranges are full of compromized > "Windows" PCs that spam the world. This is less important than it used to be. These days spammers put a lot of effort into compromising vulnerable servers, sometimes this allows their spam to pass SPF, DKIM and even DMARC. In some cases a home server with an MTA configured to use a smarthost can be a gift to a spammer if it's compromised. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 14:56:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D571553CC7 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:56:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4888B43F for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (router.lan [172.30.250.2]) by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601B833C0B for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lowell-desk.be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id BCFC8156E423; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:56:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eee-dee anyone? References: <23e162e23288d9a2e498df5f40488bb8@kathe.in> <44muld9su4.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20190330035113.65fc995f.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 10:56:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20190330035113.65fc995f.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:51:13 +0100") Message-ID: <441s2o9zrr.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DF4888B43F X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.76 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.06)[-0.064,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.889,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: be-well.ilk.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.90)[0.901,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ilk.org]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:23.30.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.09), ipnet: 23.30.0.0/15(0.07), asn: 7922(0.10), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:56:47 -0000 Polytropon writes: > I think you're confusing vi and ex here (which are the same > executable), but ed is something different (a different program). > But I think the reason for this confusion is that using ed > feels like using vi's ex mode or the ex standalone program. :-) Yes, definitely. Because it's described by POSIX, ed(1) is with us to stay. Because it has non-trivial differences between POSIX and BSD versions (which have bitten me in the past), I use sed(1) regardless of whether ed would have done the job. I suspect that is a common pattern. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 15:05:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0CCD1554280 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:05:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE0DF8B9D7 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:05:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Sending Tcsh to packages/ports ... Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:05:23 -0600 References: <64780f09d4251b9641e3bca39000ae2d@kathe.in> <869a55f05dde045b1947f53ce3c5851f@kathe.in> <20190330033342.e5fc3373.freebsd@edvax.de> <2aee9abe70cc944b634751e5df0b375e@kathe.in> <20190330035857.86508c3a.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190330054824.541c1bff.freebsd@edvax.de> To: "James B. Byrne via freebsd-questions" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <52E9262F-5CCD-4F8D-9582-5C6BC470A772@kreme.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AE0DF8B9D7 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.45)[-0.450,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.24)[-0.239,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.02)[asn: 209(-0.05), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.covisp.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.228,0]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[42.55.121.65.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:05:34 -0000 On 30 Mar 2019, at 05:36, Carmel NY wrote: > For the record, the first thing I do when doing a fresh install of > FreBSD is to install "bash" and make it the default shell. Its > documentation is some of the best I've seen and the bash forums are > always available to assist you. Same. I've been using bash for more than 20 years, and I would never go = back to csh/tcsh. I've looked at zsh and ksh and fish, but none stuck. --=20 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 15:15:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA0C155480C for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5B2F8C0EC for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:14:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Why is Sendmail still around? Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 09:14:57 -0600 References: <4101a1092141b58e05ef7552278b15ff@kathe.in> <20190329121212.1f12fed7.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190329140110.3c7102ef876f3a1e58ea467b@sohara.org> <20190330034114.54ae2511.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190330145410.17cfd72d@gumby.homeunix.com> To: "James B. Byrne via freebsd-questions" In-Reply-To: <20190330145410.17cfd72d@gumby.homeunix.com> Message-Id: <6F74B111-CE53-4122-ACBE-1AB0311FE224@kreme.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B5B2F8C0EC X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.13)[-0.131,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.02)[asn: 209(-0.05), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.covisp.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.60)[0.603,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.38)[-0.383,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[42.55.121.65.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 15:15:00 -0000 On 30 Mar 2019, at 08:54, RW via freebsd-questions = wrote: > On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 03:41:14 +0100 Polytropon wrote: >=20 >> On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:01:10 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >=20 >>> I wouldn't attempt to run an outgoing mail server doing >>> direct MX lookup and delivery these days they anti-spam measures >>> are a nightmare. OTOH reliable delivery relays are not that common >>> either. =20 >>=20 >> Yes, it's not as easy anymore... You have to fight "we know better >> than you!" providers who consider every IP from a dynamic range >> a spammer, That is a fight you cannot ever win. > They pretty much have to. Most spam is caught by simple DNS based > tests which rely on assuming that no dynamic IP addresses sends direct > to MX. In particular most blocklists can't distinguish between a spam > source and a dynamic address, because an infected machine can cause=20 > hundreds of dynamic addresses to be listed. I consider every mail from a dynamic IP address to be a spammer. There = is *NO* reason for someone on a dynamic IP to be sending mail directly = to my mailserver, they need to use their provider's mailserver or some = mailserver that trusts them. I've been running a mail server since 1993, and one of the first things = I did when spam really started to become a problem was to try to block = dynamic pools (this was long before RBLs). In fact, the primary reason that I switched to postfix was for better = tools to match helo and rDNS names for the purpose of blocking spam = (which was nearly all from dynamic pools in the early days of spam). I still have 1500+ lines of checks, probably unneeded now, that look for = common dynamic pool tokens and reject them. --=20 Im finding's you'r mis'use of apostrophe's disturbing. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 30 21:14:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F101563F59 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:14:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mazandar.wiki@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x542.google.com (mail-ed1-x542.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::542]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 216E4801F0 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:14:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mazandar.wiki@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x542.google.com with SMTP id s16so4914986edr.3 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:14:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MEhEwu8CFiXsJ6AkuWzuS8lZbqO+D+l+i5U4EVlPP5g=; b=boNypdj+1UZ9o31rCCxp+a2Qp7DBfpBHmDpp2UTanmw0LS23ZrX93BhGemsvN5P7oU PJBQbCG85sDwICbne4hJvakws7flvyu/xBxAF4tPe7U8ab95/m+CfrwT6DMc9nlEXKd5 WZDFi1pnH+nif755M8snl7jzaUc8k1TSBfGwyCUYCs6VxgAFXtYDvaR6scgqdglAckVc sTBkrGoBUGUWuD3Y8GwSwbaZH88IAKrNDeXfhQiewTkEeyK6jj7iAIVeJt+j63hyAc0n GSljtcb+HPR5gstwUXejP/56F5gbF8L6eSt63ACnOjMmMJjsiRxPf+p7XWbIiJnbnW92 RsoA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MEhEwu8CFiXsJ6AkuWzuS8lZbqO+D+l+i5U4EVlPP5g=; b=BKZauo2UFYQDXjjQWqO135omeu4Vmx5+xLUNFSLn6vKSdn+IuC/AxlUhYdyRM7MVZB nbCyVpnB3aRQHeZWTaQNAqyPnXk7S710tOYuJEIzNUSOux5vk4gmZe4H32jaAIKOHbmy BJSKNavJL9QDXAn9FhCRCJghAu46bk/a/IfAw79G3tE7/o3p5jTVH1cV72WbHsw/Ut3s VosngLNWNrCdpjPygFKDgBVPlJcHDXDDJfP91Y+UYKRdJitsBFbAmBlsTFQIkuaXN5nz qmgHjHkuLTONJF43QkK/0m04xdQuQj8oXukiat2/kADvzW7DgnYBY/+/PErK8Nyvo+vQ /luQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXRZGPkF18IYKjXAMAj1lyHy00EY6zduRL8YI21pqA2B4nOcjUv o2lWWJxO16oGkOJFZNXQjh9W1ZPg4xddIi31dvBWqWsX3S8AkA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyp4dhBdLnutIFYkMrelrSqHqn7JxmFKolTrlO6VLkjKBF+rObWvCvmJowLbGSmqZI7X3DTdaxaJYHXNqRF7rw= X-Received: by 2002:a50:ac71:: with SMTP id w46mr37242967edc.95.1553980454124; Sat, 30 Mar 2019 14:14:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mazandar Wiki Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 01:44:01 +0430 Message-ID: Subject: FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE crashes during the boot process To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 216E4801F0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=boNypdj+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mazandarwiki@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::542 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mazandarwiki@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.54 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.609,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.92)[ip: (-0.03), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-2.14), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:14:15 -0000 I'm trying to boot FreeBSD from the installation media (FreeBSD-12.0-RELEASE-amd64-memstick.img, written on an 8GB USB Flash Drive by dd(1)). It crashes at the beginning of the boot process, right after printing this message: ACPI APIC TABLE: In the verbose mode: ACPI APIC TABLE: L3 cache ID shift: 4 L2 cache ID shift: 1 L1 cache ID shift: 1 Core ID shift: 1 [crashes here and nothing works, I have to restart by hand] It sometimes works (and one time, I even managed to install it, though it didn't work after the first reboot), but most often it crashes. I tried to disable AHCI in the BIOS, but that didn't work either. Checksums are OK. Other operating systems (including FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE) work fine.