Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:11:47 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" <jan6146@gmail.com> To: "Antoine BRUNEL" <antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years Message-ID: <784966050807021711l3c738640gcc2579018b66d314@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr>
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Thanks for responding Curtis, I've used FreeBSD for a long time. In fact, when the Athlon first came out= , FreeBSD would run with it, and SUSE would not. I thought that was a good sign that FreeBSD was top notch. Plus it booted faster than any computer and/or OS I had ever used. And the memory management was incredible. I hardly ever page out to swap, even running a number of apps at once. Nothing even slows down. But after I got this new laptop I never reinstalled it. Laptops are all made so crappy in China that every year or two something breaks, I get pissed, and I buy a new one. My old Dell had to have the motherboard replaced 5 times, 4 of those because the ethernet connector came loose and they had no choice but to put a new board in. All that for a $0.10 part. But I have problems just transferring hard drives because of SATA vs. IDE. I'm not sure how to get the data from one to another without a tape drive, which it seems is expensive. I dirched Ununtu as I found out my priority bug report was never acted on and is still there from a year a go, numbered up in the 20,000's. When you manually configure your Wifi, upon the next reboot it just goes out and randomly connects to any open access point- not my WAP encrypted one here. Even Vista can be set not to do that! Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Antoine BRUNEL <antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr> wrote: > I complete what Curtis wrote... > > How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of > hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH an= d > kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the "glib= c" > package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... > > Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still > offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead = of > putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of windo= ws > managers, productivity tools, etc... > > BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control o= n > what happens.... > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing = a > working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by "hands". > But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / Debian to > FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Curtis Penner a =E9crit : > >> Let us take this further. >> >> Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux >> is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. >> >> BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size = to >> capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it is >> rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is outstanding. = It >> is what others should look to. >> >> So what is wrong? >> >> It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough users= . >> Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech savvy. >> >> When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The >> front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech savv= y to >> know what you want to do. You have to search out all the variations of = the >> applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full package -- Examples= : >> Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common these day), you better= set >> aside as much time or more as doing the initial install. >> >> Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop >> on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the developm= ent >> environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, Hibernation= , >> Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a rabbit jumpin= g >> around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is such a turn off. >> >> As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look a= t >> the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't hav= e to >> copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) >> >> I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), an= d >> the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is lit= tle >> in common with the rest. >> >> Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more instal= ls >> and more people on the systems. That means more installs to laptops. Th= e >> installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean getting more Open >> Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. >> >> I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click wi= th >> not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go advance = and >> do special custom work). >> >> >> -Curtis >> >> >> Rob Lytle wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >>> >>> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an >>> incredibly >>> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 time= s. >>> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages aft= er >>> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and >>> almost >>> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than >>> reboots. >>> >>> 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there= , >>> the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to >>> press >>> OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >>> >>> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages a= t >>> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't kno= w >>> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps >>> comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already >>> installed dependencies. >>> >>> I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is i= t >>> written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've >>> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someon= e >>> who >>> knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an >>> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug >>> report >>> would be futile. >>> >>> Food for thought. Thanks, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g >> " >> >> --=20 ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos)
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