From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 3 01:12:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 608CBD96; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:12:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mouf.net (mouf.net [IPv6:2607:fc50:0:4400:216:3eff:fe69:33b3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mouf.net", Issuer "mouf.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06A2F27D; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:12:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mouf.net (swills@mouf [199.48.129.64]) by mouf.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s331C5JK060900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:12:10 GMT (envelope-from swills@mouf.net) Received: (from swills@localhost) by mouf.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id s331C52G060899; Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:12:05 GMT (envelope-from swills) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:12:05 +0000 From: Steve Wills To: Garrett Wollman Subject: Re: login.conf --> UTF-8 Message-ID: <20140403011202.GA51052@mouf.net> References: <201404022206.s32M6DD4090396@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> <1396479395.2280.21.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1396479395.2280.21.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.22 (2013-10-16) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (mouf.net [199.48.129.64]); Thu, 03 Apr 2014 01:12:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.5 tests=none autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mouf.net X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mouf.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: current@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 01:12:16 -0000 On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 03:56:35PM -0700, Sean Bruno wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 18:06 -0400, Garrett Wollman wrote: > > In article <1396457629.2280.2.camel@powernoodle.corp.yahoo.com>, > > sbruno@freebsd.org writes: > > > > >I'd like to make this change to login.conf for default installs. > > > > > >This removes some amount of hackery in the ports system that is working > > >around our lack of UTF-8 in the base. > > > > I'm not sure what the connection is here. Surely the ports system > > runs with the locale of the user running "make" (which in my case is > > going to be "C"). Any port that requires a specific locale to build > > properly needs to be setting that locale explicitly. > > You'd think so, but that's not what's happening. What's happening is the software builds as long as the locale isn't C. Hence, ugly hacks like this: http://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/Mk/bsd.ruby.mk?annotate=348863#l257 Why? Because the people writing it have never encountered a system where LANG isn't set or is set to C. Yes, it's a bug in their software. No, they never have and never will encounter it. Because every other operating system sets LANG to whatever the user specifies. And so they have no interest in fixing it, because neither they nor any one they know will ever encounter it, and even if you report it to them they will tell you it's a bug in your system for not having LANG specified. And I have no interest in patching it hundreds of times. And this is just one example. There are others, I think, that aren't ruby related at all. > > > > I have been informed by folks that this change I suggest would help in > the case of ports having to declare UTF-8 support explicitly or > something. I'm hand-wavy on the details and ignorant of the hacks in > place. I only know that I've been *told* this. I think we should join the club of asking the user, but that's more work and until then having a reasonable default and having people change it seems sane. Steve