From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 00:42:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA16594 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rhiannon.clari.net.au (dns1.clari.net.au [203.27.85.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA16574; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from peter@localhost) by rhiannon.clari.net.au (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA24478; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:44:19 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:44:19 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Hawkins Message-Id: <199701120844.TAA24478@rhiannon.clari.net.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help with Soundblaster card Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had precisely this problem. IT is that your sound card conflicts with your printer on irq 7. I solved it by moving my soundcard to a different IRQ, reboot and bingo. Test it w/o rebuilding your kernel if you like by booting with -c and moving it that way. PS - your printer will work better after that too. PPS even if you don't have a printer, the printer port is on irq 7. I (probably like you) assumed t was no problem as DOS lets you user irq 7 for both. The catch is that DOS uses polled mode and basically ignores the printer so you can get away with it. FreeBSD doesn't do this (even if you set your printer to polled mode explicitly!) Peter Incidentally - since the LINT file puts a sound card on 7 it gets confusinng for a newbie - howabout moving it in LINT and putting in a comment NOT to use 7? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 01:04:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA17200 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:04:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA17168 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ic@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA07861; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:04:02 +0100 (MET) From: Joachim Isaksson Message-Id: <199701120904.KAA07861@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: A cool xterm? To: benedict@echonyc.com (Snob Art Genre) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:04:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gilham@csl.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from Snob Art Genre at "Jan 12, 97 00:08:27 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It would also be very nice if I could use a key or combination of keys to > turn scrollbar mode on, use the arrows to scroll up and down, and hit > another key to go back to the active window. Does anyone know if this is > currently possible, or if not, how I can set it up? > > Signed, one who hates switching from keyboard to mouse and back. > > (P.S. Keyboard-based cut and paste would be a real win too.) > Ben How about this Xresource? (not quite what you wanted but similar); xterm*VT100.Translations: #override \ Print: string("eval `/usr/X11R6/bin/resize`") string(0x0d) \n\ ShiftUp: scroll-back(1,line) \n\ ShiftDown: scroll-forw(1,line) \n\ Prior: scroll-back(1,page) \n\ Next: scroll-forw(1,page) \n\ Home: scroll-back(1000,page) \n\ End: scroll-forw(1000,page) Page up/down for screen up/down, shift arrow up/down for line up/down, Home/End for start/end of scrollback and PrtSc to get resize evaluated. /Joachim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 01:59:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA18644 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id BAA18635 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 01:59:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701120959.BAA18635@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA171903150; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:59:10 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:59:10 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Jan 11, 97 04:19:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Chris Coleman, sie said: > > Im setting up ipfilter to work on my system and I have it installed. > But i need help configuring the rules so that it will actually work. > > > I have two cards in the FBSD box. fxp0 and vx0 > fpx0 is 208.8.136.10 > vx0 is 10.16.14.1 > > i have a client on 10.16.14.100 and i want it to be translated to > a 208.8.136.10 address so that it can go out. echo "map fpx0 10.16.14.100/32 -> 208.8.136.10/32" | ipnat -f - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 02:22:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA19390 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:22:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA19385 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA13111; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA02060; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:52:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:52:06 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: jfieber@indiana.edu (John Fieber) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sound driver/devfs change, round 2 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:50:44 +0100 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Jan 11, 1997 23:27:56 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Fieber wrote: > Next question, currently there are unnumbered aliases for unit > zero, eg audio -> audio0. Should that also be left to a startup > script? Yes. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 02:24:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA19519 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA19480 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA13155 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:24:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02120; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:10:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:10:33 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mounting devfs on /dev References: <199701120733.SAA30033@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701120733.SAA30033@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Jan 12, 1997 18:33:23 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > (At first only the unmount process seemed to be hung - ps was able to > run and should the process hanging on vgone. Now ps in ddb show that > many processes are hanging on ufslk2. I thought that this problem was > fixed.) I've experienced the same yesterday. I didn't care for the hanging umount, and proceeded using the machine. Hours later, suddenly a bunch of processes started to stall, and i couldn't even reboot the machine cleanly from within DDB. (It finally triple faulted, which was less work than hitting the reset button. :-) I noticed that umount hung in `vgone', maybe one or two other processes, too. The remaining hanging processes were at `ufslk2'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 02:25:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA19554 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA19546 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:25:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA13162 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:25:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02158; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:12 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Jan 11, 1997 20:14:30 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I think DEVFS should create all devices 0600 root:wheel. It's bogus > > for the kernel to hard-code user or group names. Everything else > > should be handled at rc(8) time, which is also where the beloved > > persistency will come into the game. > > Hmmm. Actually, ignore what I said earlier about group games - I > agree with Joerg. :-) Although i should add that this is currently _not_ the case! I.e., nobody wrote that ``permissions & persistancy'' module for rc(8) yet. I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. Btw., a system shutdown script would come handy for this. What are the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) Well, at least we could teach our init to run something like /etc/rc.shutdown or such, which can do all the dirty work. Init should probably impose a timeout for this script (in case it hangs), how to configure this? A sysctl variable? For normal machines (i.e., not news servers or other machines that require mucho work at shutdown time), a grace period of 10 seconds should suffice. Why i'm bringing this into the game here? It would be the ideal spot to dump out the state of DEVFS into a file. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 02:56:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA20425 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA20410 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14002 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:56:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02192; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:27:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:27:14 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: A cool xterm? References: <199701120904.KAA07861@ocean.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701120904.KAA07861@ocean.campus.luth.se>; from Joachim Isaksson on Jan 12, 1997 10:04:01 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Joachim Isaksson wrote: > xterm*VT100.Translations: #override \ > Print: string("eval `/usr/X11R6/bin/resize`") string(0x0d) \n\ > ShiftUp: scroll-back(1,line) \n\ > ShiftDown: scroll-forw(1,line) \n\ > Prior: scroll-back(1,page) \n\ > Next: scroll-forw(1,page) \n\ > Home: scroll-back(1000,page) \n\ > End: scroll-forw(1000,page) > > Page up/down for screen up/down, shift arrow up/down for line up/down, > Home/End for start/end of scrollback and PrtSc to get resize evaluated. What's that resize crap^H^H^H^Hstuff good for? I never found a good excuse to have it. Does the terminal window size structure not work for you? (Btw., resize is a strong misnomer. It, of course, doesn't resize the xterm, which would have been a much cooler idea at all. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 02:56:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA20455 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA20438 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA14043 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:56:27 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02201; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:29:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:29:46 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A cool xterm? References: <199701102211.RAA13433@chai.plexuscom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Jan 12, 1997 00:10:15 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Sorry, this didn't occur to me before:) > On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Bakul Shah wrote: > > > > > Also, there should be a way to dump lines to a file (on command) as > > well as increase/decrease line buffer size. The options to dump something from xterm into files have been deliberately removed from the X11R6 xterm since they proved to be a security nightmare for xterms running setuid. Once our new all-singing all-dancing utmp replacement is ready, it for sure does no longer require root permissions, then we can revert this. :) I also loved the feature to write a transaction log file from xterm. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 03:22:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA21275 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA21270 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA14518 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:22:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id LAA02531; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:59:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:59:44 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <199701120821.TAA31129@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199701120837.AAA12340@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701120837.AAA12340@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU>; from Josh MacDonald on Jan 12, 1997 00:37:26 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Josh MacDonald wrote: > Third, you should all be reading info files with emacs, not info. Info > is a stupid program and doesn't deserve to exist. Emacs, however, is not, > and the info browser is quite good. Unless emacs shrinks to a few hundred kilobyte in size, it _does_ deserve to exist. Info(1) can be shipped with the base system, emacs cannot. Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is usually identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there are people who don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and the attitude ``use it to read the info files or die'' would just cause me to say: to the hell with all the info files. Make them HTML or man pages. (We already sorta rely on HTML, see the FAQ and the handbook.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 03:54:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA22758 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA22753 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id DAA12628; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:54:04 -0800 (PST) From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199701121154.DAA12628@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:59:44 +0100." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12621.853070018.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:53:42 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Josh MacDonald wrote: > > > Third, you should all be reading info files with emacs, not info. Info > > is a stupid program and doesn't deserve to exist. Emacs, however, is not, > > and the info browser is quite good. > > Unless emacs shrinks to a few hundred kilobyte in size, it _does_ > deserve to exist. Info(1) can be shipped with the base system, emacs > cannot. > > Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is usually > identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there are people who > don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and the attitude ``use it > to read the info files or die'' would just cause me to say: to the > hell with all the info files. Make them HTML or man pages. (We > already sorta rely on HTML, see the FAQ and the handbook.) Yeah I wasn't too serious, but since most are reference manuals they're not really required for urgent-what-if-I-dont-have-emacs-installed-yet situations. There is the HTML route, too. texi2html produces pretty good HTML. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 03:57:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA22915 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [193.125.152.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA22903 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA13507 (5.65.kiae-1 ); Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:47:09 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 12 Jan 97 14:47:09 +0300 Received: from localhost (nagual.ru [127.0.0.1]) by nagual.ru (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA00768; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:33:29 +0300 (MSK) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:33:28 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= To: Josh MacDonald Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recent bsd.info.mk commit breaks SRCDIR, please merge properly! In-Reply-To: <199701120716.XAA12014@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Josh MacDonald wrote: > Could you please clarify? > > -josh > > > Joshua, among SRCDIR method brokennes, you broke INFO* macros usage too. > > Don't do blind commits, please! > > I expect this things will be restored. Yes, check out bsd.info.mk version just prior your commit and see: 1) {SRCDIR} is needed for contrib collections for include and path priorities. I.e. makeinfo called with -I {CURDIR} -I {SRCDIR} and sources searched in {CURDIR} then in {SRCDIR} in that order. This general solution allows various local tunings easily. 2) {INFO*} macros usage from bsd.own.mk, i.e. previous version use {INFOMODE}, {INFODIR}, {INFOOWN}, etc. and your version use hacked {BINDIR} again. All this stuff looks like you pick very obsoleted bsd.info.mk to start with and not its -current variant. Please, restore SRCDIR and INFO* changes. Thanx in advance. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 04:06:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA23510 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ravenock.cybercity.dk (ravenock.cybercity.dk [194.16.57.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA23504 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:06:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by ravenock.cybercity.dk (8.8.4/8.7.3) id MAA09203; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:58:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701121158.MAA09203@ravenock.cybercity.dk> Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 12, 97 11:59:44 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:58:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to J Wunsch who wrote: > As Josh MacDonald wrote: > > > Third, you should all be reading info files with emacs, not info. Info > > is a stupid program and doesn't deserve to exist. Emacs, however, is not, > > and the info browser is quite good. > > Unless emacs shrinks to a few hundred kilobyte in size, it _does_ > deserve to exist. Info(1) can be shipped with the base system, emacs > cannot. > > Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is usually > identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there are people who > don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and the attitude ``use it > to read the info files or die'' would just cause me to say: to the > hell with all the info files. Make them HTML or man pages. (We > already sorta rely on HTML, see the FAQ and the handbook.) AMEN!!, we _dont_ need info files, make the man pages (as god intended them to be) or at least HTML... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 04:09:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA23669 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA23662 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:09:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id EAA12693; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:08:50 -0800 (PST) From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199701121208.EAA12693@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recent bsd.info.mk commit breaks SRCDIR, please merge properly! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:33:28 +0300." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12686.853070913.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:08:35 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I understand now. Peter Wemm already fixed it. Sorry, my mistake. -josh > 1) {SRCDIR} is needed for contrib collections for include and path > priorities. > I.e. makeinfo called with -I {CURDIR} -I {SRCDIR} and sources searched > in {CURDIR} then in {SRCDIR} in that order. This general solution allows > various local tunings easily. > > 2) {INFO*} macros usage from bsd.own.mk, i.e. previous version use > {INFOMODE}, {INFODIR}, {INFOOWN}, etc. and your version use hacked > {BINDIR} again. > > All this stuff looks like you pick very obsoleted bsd.info.mk to start > with and not its -current variant. > > Please, restore SRCDIR and INFO* changes. > Thanx in advance. > > -- > Andrey A. Chernov > > http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 04:25:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA24350 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA24344 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:25:49 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA15615 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4168 invoked by uid 110); 12 Jan 1997 12:25:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19970112122508.4166.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-Reply-To: <199701121158.MAA09203@ravenock.cybercity.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at "Jan 12, 97 12:58:44 pm" To: sos@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:25:07 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to J Wunsch who wrote: > > As Josh MacDonald wrote: [..] > AMEN!!, we _dont_ need info files, make the man pages (as god intended > them to be) or at least HTML... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. When all gnu info pages are convereted to HTML and html will handle info style indexing, footnotes and xrefs, I'll agree with you. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 04:46:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA25789 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA25781 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ic@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08392; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:48:03 +0100 (MET) From: Joachim Isaksson Message-Id: <199701121248.NAA08392@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: A cool xterm? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:48:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 12, 97 11:27:14 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Joachim Isaksson wrote: > >> xterm*VT100.Translations: #override \ >> Print: string("eval `/usr/X11R6/bin/resize`") string(0x0d) \n\ >> ShiftUp: scroll-back(1,line) \n\ >> ShiftDown: scroll-forw(1,line) \n\ >> Prior: scroll-back(1,page) \n\ >> Next: scroll-forw(1,page) \n\ >> Home: scroll-back(1000,page) \n\ >> End: scroll-forw(1000,page) >> >> Page up/down for screen up/down, shift arrow up/down for line up/down, >> Home/End for start/end of scrollback and PrtSc to get resize evaluated. > > What's that resize crap^H^H^H^Hstuff good for? I never found a good > excuse to have it. Does the terminal window size structure not work > for you? Not when I log onto another computer over 'tip' in a local xterm for some reason... :( (was setting up a somewhat 'odd' network the other day and having contact over the serial port, not just the network, was VERY helpful. But, alas, in this case it was more of an example of keyboard mapping. > (Btw., resize is a strong misnomer. It, of course, doesn't resize the > xterm, which would have been a much cooler idea at all. :) Ack, then we'd had all kinds of windows jumping around resizing themselves. It would feel just like running Internet Explorer on 32 bit Windows. >:) /Joachim From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 05:16:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA26474 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.34.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA26469 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id FAA13053; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:15:27 -0800 (PST) From: Josh MacDonald Message-Id: <199701121315.FAA13053@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: proff@suburbia.net cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:25:07 +1100." <19970112122508.4166.qmail@suburbia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <13046.853074900.1@paris.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:15:07 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to J Wunsch who wrote: > > > As Josh MacDonald wrote: > > [..] > > AMEN!!, we _dont_ need info files, make the man pages (as god intended > > them to be) or at least HTML... Uhh, not. Man pages lose for anything more complicated than the description of one library function. But I use texi2html occasionally to put documentation on the web. Does it meet your requirements? Here's some info from its man page: VERSION This is texi2html version 1.47, 03/11/96. The latest version of texi2html can be found in WWW, cf. URL http://wwwcn.cern.ch/dci/texi2html/ AUTHOR The main author is Lionel Cons, CERN CN/DCI/UWS, Lionel.Cons@cern.ch. Many other people around the net contributed to this program. > When all gnu info pages are convereted to HTML and html will handle info styl >e > indexing, footnotes and xrefs, I'll agree with you. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 05:39:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA27468 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA27463 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA22147; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:38:55 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:38:53 +0000 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 12, 1997 11:20:12 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > Hmmm. Actually, ignore what I said earlier about group games - I > > agree with Joerg. :-) > > Although i should add that this is currently _not_ the case! I.e., > nobody wrote that ``permissions & persistancy'' module for rc(8) yet. > > I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we > could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. Yes, that would certainly be the way to do it. > Btw., a system shutdown script would come handy for this. Certainly. > What are the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) Shoot first and ask questions later? :-) Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an overkill. It is cumbersome and difficult to manage, in spite of claims to the contrary. It makes it easier to manage from the admin scripts (to create/add scripts to startup/shutdown lists), but how many serious admins use those, trust them enough and remain sane for any period of time? This use of symlinks is abuse of the filesystem, pure and simple. KISS works better. Any /etc/rc.shutdown has /etc/sysconfig as a resource and should use it if relevent. And please - PLEASE - no "runlevels"! > Well, at least we could teach > our init to run something like /etc/rc.shutdown or such, which can do > all the dirty work. Init should probably impose a timeout for this > script (in case it hangs), how to configure this? A sysctl variable? > For normal machines (i.e., not news servers or other machines that > require mucho work at shutdown time), a grace period of 10 seconds > should suffice. Make it configurable (sysctl var?), but 10 seconds would seem like a reasonable default on most systems. I've found that if a news server, for example, is particularly busy, it can take up to a minute for ctlinnd shutdown to complete. A shutdown 'fastboot' option to bypass the shutdown script might also be useful. Of course, the 10 seconds wait is a moot point if the script returns earlier... Naturally, this brings ports in, with /usr/local/etc/rc.d scripts again, but you knew that. :-) > Why i'm bringing this into the game here? It would be the ideal spot > to dump out the state of DEVFS into a file. Yes. If it is made flexible enough, the admin can make a choice as to whether the permissions/ownership is static or persistent. /etc/sysconfig: # File from which devfs is initialised and set up devfs_init=/etc/mtree/BSD.devfs # File where devfs permissions are saved. Leave blank # if you want it to be the same as ${devfs_init}, which # causes permissions and ownerships to be persistant # between reboots. "NO" prevents them being saved at all. devfs_save= Perhaps the *existance* of an /etc/rc.shutdown will be enough to trigger it. Even on a freshly installed system, it wouldn't do much harm to run an empty script (although I can think of a couple of things to put there already :-)). Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:05:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA28432 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA28423 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id PAA08741; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:02:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id OAA26386; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:54:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:54:50 +0100 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:59 AM 1/12/97 +0100, J Wunsch wrote: >Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is usually >identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there are people who >don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and the attitude ``use it >to read the info files or die'' would just cause me to say: to the >hell with all the info files. Make them HTML or man pages. (We >already sorta rely on HTML, see the FAQ and the handbook.) I'm in favour. I haven't yet seen a good browser for info, and it is pain to get the ones that exist to even open the files. While we're at it, it would even be nice to have the man-pages as HTML - not as a replacement format, but as an alternative. With a small lookup-program and automatic conversion, it might even be a usable alternative - I might try to create a CGI to do automatic conversion as an experiment. Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:24:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA29147 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA29142 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA01448; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:24:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:24:34 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Bruce Evans cc: julian@whistle.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sound driver/devfs change, round 2 In-Reply-To: <199701120629.RAA28317@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Bruce Evans wrote: > >Next question, currently there are unnumbered aliases for unit > >zero, eg audio -> audio0. Should that also be left to a startup > >script? > > Probably. The aliases are only for confus^H^H^Hvenience. If you > keep them, then they should have tokens. Removed. > > #ifdef DEVFS > > /* XXX */ /* should only create devices if that card has them */ > > #define SND_UID 0 > >! #define SND_GID 0 > > These 0's are still magic. They should be spelled as UID_ROOT and > GID_WHEEL. All calls to devfs_add_devswf() now reference UID_ROOT and GID_WHEEL; SND_UID and SND_GID have been removed. Barring any objections, I'll commit this to current so (hopefully) some people with soundcards other than soundblaster 16 can try it out. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:32:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA29569 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA29564 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA02452 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:32:47 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id PAA14482 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:32:33 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id PAA16479; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:03:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:03:01 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A cool xterm? References: <199701102014.NAA20438@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57.11 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2917 In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Jan 12, 1997 00:08:27 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Snob Art Genre: > (P.S. Keyboard-based cut and paste would be a real win too.) You can already "paste" with Shift-Ins. Very handy. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:33:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA29593 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA29573 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:33:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA02455 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:32:48 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id PAA14484 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:32:33 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id PAA16521; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:22:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:22:23 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: default permission for audio devices References: <16876.853042208@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57.11 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2917 In-Reply-To: <16876.853042208@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Jan 11, 1997 20:10:08 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > For audio devices, that sounds fairly reasonable, I guess. Depends on > whether you think any user should be able to use the sound card or > not, I suppose. :-) /etc/fbtab is here to define ownership and permissions changes at login time anyway. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:48:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA00460 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA00454 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id BAA14336; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:44:33 +1100 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:44:33 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Although i should add that this is currently _not_ the case! I.e., >> nobody wrote that ``permissions & persistancy'' module for rc(8) yet. >> >> I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we >> could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. > >Yes, that would certainly be the way to do it. Not really. Things it doesn't do right include: - wildcards. The equivalent of `chmod 666 /dev/tty[pqrs][PQRS]*' is a huge list. - futures. When a new disk with lots of slices and partitions on it is detected, how is its mode and group changed so that a member of group operator can access it? >Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise >the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, >Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an >overkill. I expect a tree of devices would be overkill too. You would need evil symlinks to reduce /dev/disks/raw/scsi/bus0/id0/lun0/slice2/partitionh to something like /dev/rsd0h :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 06:54:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA00617 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA00612 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id PAA09018 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:53:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA26519 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:53:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112155356.009c1100@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:53:57 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Numerous minor with 2.1.6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I did an install of FreeBSD 2.1.6 about 2 weeks ago, and encountered quite a few problems. (Some of them have been reported to the "right person" already, but I'll just repeat problems with solutions here for hackers benefit) Cronologically: 1) After having loaded the kernel, just after starting "init" (sysinstall), the system froze, but the VTYs worked. (Seems to have been an IO-area conflict; it went away when I twiddled jumpers). Could be auto-detectable? 2) The description of proxy-FTP in the handbook leaves much to be desired; I had a lot of work finding how to do it. (Suggestion for revised handbook-entry sent to doc-mailing-list) - shorty: use options to set ftp@ftp.freebsd.org as your FTP username, your@email.address as password, and use ftp://your.proxy.server:[port]/pub/FreeBSD as install URL. (Replace [port] with appropriate port number) 3) Many packages missed (I don't know exactly which, due to having set 'yes to all non-critical questions') - no solution. (Except using ports to install them afterwards) 4) FreeBSD happily wrote a non-functioning boot-manager on my dangerously dedicated disk. Solution: Don't do that. (I ended up bringing the box to another location which already had a FreeBSD-machine, 5) The emacs package didn't work - it needed compat_20, which wasn't a dependency. Solution: Problem should be gone - thanks to Asami and Jordan. (I did my own version of compat_20 - copying the required libraries from another box I had) 6) The emacs port wouldn't compile - it just looped, configuring. Solution: Should be fixed now - I ended up replacing the libraries, as per above. (I could also have configured emacs by hand) 7) The lynx port was 2.5FM - which no longer exist on the FTP sites mentioned. Solution: I grabbed the -current ports collection, and installed 2.6FM from it. Not free of problems - the MD5 checksum was wrong (but the program worked when I disabled MD5). 8) The version of X downloaded is for 2.2 - it requires libc.so.3.0 I've reported this to jmz@freebsd.org (maintainer for the port), but don't know if it has been fixed (no reply yet). Solution for me: download the 2.1.5 archives from xfree86.cdrom.com, and replace the distribution. 9) SERIOUS: XFree86 _rebooted_ the box when /dev/mouse was linked to /dev/mse0 and I ran a config with "Microsoft" as mouse protocol. /dev/mse0 was NOT configured by the kernel (but should have been). Solution for me: Use a serial mouse instead of a BusMouse - but not a good solution. 10) XFree86 3.2 would detect my Matrox Millenium 2064W, and all documentation claim that the SVGA server support it - but it didn't work. Would work using the XF86_VGA16 server, though. Solution for me: I'll switch to AccelleratedX, which worked fine (the demo at least). The two latter problems occured on a PPro (Asus Motherboard) with 64 MB RAM, a 1542CF ISA controller with a 1.7GB Micropolis, no floppy, no IDE drives, no CD-ROM, a Matrox Millenium 2064W with 8MB RAM (american version), and no other cards. This is more distribution-problems than I like. FreeBSD runs very nicely once it is up, but I must admit to having had my share of problems getting it up and running, which is unfortunate, as I would have liked to be able to say it is easier than installing Linux :( Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 07:09:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA01367 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA01357 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA02714 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:09:48 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id QAA15521 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:09:20 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id QAA17071; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:03:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:03:14 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57.11 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2921 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 12, 1997 11:20:12 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to J Wunsch: > the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) Well, at least we could teach > our init to run something like /etc/rc.shutdown or such, which can do > all the dirty work. Init should probably impose a timeout for this > script (in case it hangs), how to configure this? A sysctl variable? > For normal machines (i.e., not news servers or other machines that > require mucho work at shutdown time), a grace period of 10 seconds > should suffice. May I remind everyone that I proposed a change for this in 1994 ? :-) Here is the patch again, against pre-2.0 init of course so it must be modified now. It was at the time a partial patch because the discussions at that time pushed for changing reboot/halt as well. I have this under CVS so I could probably merge it with our current init. In this scheme, init does all the job of bringing the system down and reboot/halt only send a signal to init instead of doing the job themselves. The patch for reboot/halt has to be written though. Now that you can have rc.d directory upon statup, we could teach rc.shutdown to use the rc.d/ scheme as well in order to have proper init/shutdown time initializations... All my rc.d scripts already supports "start" and "stop" arguments for example... ---------------------------------------------------- #! /bin/sh PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/news/etc:/usr/local/news/bin export PATH if [ X"$1" = Xstart ]; then echo '' su news -c rc.news fi if [ X"$1" = Xstop ]; then echo 'Stopping INN.' su news -c "ctlinnd shutdown 'Halted by news.sh stop'" fi ---------------------------------------------------- =================================================================== RCS file: /build/master/freebsd/init/init.8,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -r1.2 init.8 --- 1.2 1994/08/27 21:32:01 +++ init.8 1994/12/22 14:02:33 @@ -238,6 +238,15 @@ This is useful for shutting the machine down cleanly from inside the kernel or from X when the machines appears to be hung. .Pp +When shuting down the machine, +.Nm init +will try to run the +.Pa /etc/rc.shutdown +script. This script can be used to cleanly terminate specific programs such +as +.Nm innd +(the InterNetNews server). +.Pp The role of .Nm init is so critical that if it dies, the system will reboot itself @@ -277,6 +286,8 @@ The terminal initialization information file. .It Pa /etc/rc System startup commands. +.It Pa /etc/rc.shutdown +System shutdown commands. .El .Sh SEE ALSO .Xr login 1 , =================================================================== RCS file: /build/master/freebsd/init/init.c,v retrieving revision 1.5 diff -u -r1.5 init.c --- 1.5 1994/10/14 17:15:40 +++ init.c 1994/12/22 14:03:23 @@ -98,6 +98,7 @@ void emergency __P((char *, ...)); void disaster __P((int)); void badsys __P((int)); +int runshutdown __P((void)); /* * We really need a recursive typedef... @@ -1349,6 +1350,7 @@ death() { register session_t *sp; + register int rcdown; register int i; pid_t pid; static const int death_sigs[3] = { SIGHUP, SIGTERM, SIGKILL }; @@ -1356,6 +1358,11 @@ for (sp = sessions; sp; sp = sp->se_next) sp->se_flags |= SE_SHUTDOWN; + /* Try to run the rc.shutdown script */ + rcdown = runshutdown(); + if (rcdown) + stall("Could not run %s, check this please.", _PATH_RUNDOWN); + /* NB: should send a message to the session logger to avoid blocking. */ logwtmp("~", "shutdown", ""); @@ -1377,4 +1384,90 @@ warning("some processes would not die; ps axl advised"); return (state_func_t) single_user; +} + +/* + * Run the system shutdown script. + * + * Exit codes: XXX I should document more + * 0 good. + * 1 fatal error + * 2 some error + */ +int +runshutdown() +{ + pid_t pid, wpid; + int status; + char *argv[3]; + struct sigaction sa; + + if ((pid = fork()) == 0) { + sigemptyset(&sa.sa_mask); + sa.sa_flags = 0; + sa.sa_handler = SIG_IGN; + (void) sigaction(SIGTSTP, &sa, (struct sigaction *)0); + (void) sigaction(SIGHUP, &sa, (struct sigaction *)0); + + setctty(_PATH_CONSOLE); + + argv[0] = "sh"; + argv[1] = _PATH_RUNDOWN; + argv[2] = 0; + + sigprocmask(SIG_SETMASK, &sa.sa_mask, (sigset_t *) 0); + + execv(_PATH_BSHELL, argv); + stall("can't exec %s for %s: %m", _PATH_BSHELL, _PATH_RUNDOWN); + _exit(1); /* force single user mode */ + } + + if (pid == -1) { + emergency("can't fork for %s on %s: %m", + _PATH_BSHELL, _PATH_RUNDOWN); + while (waitpid(-1, (int *) 0, WNOHANG) > 0) + continue; + sleep(STALL_TIMEOUT); + return 1; + } + + /* + * Copied from single_user(). This is a bit paranoid. + */ + do { + if ((wpid = waitpid(-1, &status, WUNTRACED)) != -1) + collect_child(wpid); + if (wpid == -1) { + if (errno == EINTR) + continue; + warning("wait for %s on %s failed: %m; going to single user mode", + _PATH_BSHELL, _PATH_RUNDOWN); + return 2; + } + if (wpid == pid && WIFSTOPPED(status)) { + warning("init: %s on %s stopped, restarting\n", + _PATH_BSHELL, _PATH_RUNDOWN); + kill(pid, SIGCONT); + wpid = -1; + } + } while (wpid != pid); + + if (WIFSIGNALED(status) && WTERMSIG(status) == SIGTERM && + requested_transition == catatonia) { + /* /etc/rc executed /sbin/reboot; wait for the end quietly */ + sigset_t s; + + sigfillset(&s); + for (;;) + sigsuspend(&s); + } + + if (!WIFEXITED(status)) { + warning("%s on %s terminated abnormally, going to single user mode", + _PATH_BSHELL, _PATH_RUNDOWN); + return 1; + } + + if (WEXITSTATUS(status)) + return 2; } =================================================================== RCS file: /build/master/freebsd/init/pathnames.h,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -r1.1.1.1 pathnames.h --- 1.1.1.1 1994/05/26 06:34:19 +++ pathnames.h 1994/12/22 13:37:45 @@ -40,3 +40,4 @@ #define _PATH_SLOGGER "/sbin/session_logger" #define _PATH_RUNCOM "/etc/rc" +#define _PATH_RUNDOWN "/etc/rc.shutdown" -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 07:25:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA01717 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:25:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA01712 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA01239; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:26:02 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:26:00 +0000 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Jan 13, 1997 01:44:33 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >> I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we > >> could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. > > > >Yes, that would certainly be the way to do it. > > Not really. Things it doesn't do right include: > - wildcards. The equivalent of `chmod 666 /dev/tty[pqrs][PQRS]*' is a > huge list. This could be resolved. It will involve expanding mtree's syntax a little (about which I admit to knowing next to nothing :-)), but I believe the basic functionality should be part of mtree, or if not mtree, then something along the same lines. SCO implemented something akin to this with setperms or whatever it was called, and used it to build systems from their install packages, and check permissions/files after installation as well. Of course, they didn't have devfs to contend with, but it did handle device nodes, named pipes and other special files, directory and file ownership and permissions. Expanding on the idea a little might see /dev/security's setuid monitoring replaced with something that checks against a pre-defined list. Yes, large lists, and possibly exploitable targets at that. :-( And I agree that the sheer volume of data and its maintenance may be a problem unless it is somehow maintained and driven by the source tree, and maybe even /usr/bin/install, together with local administrative overrides. Even in the non-devfs case, MAKEDEV itself may potentially be replaced or enhanced by such a tool. Perhaps this discussion may also be related to the "system packages" discussion a few weeks ago. Right now, for example, you can't just "make world" on a system which have specific components replaced - like sendmail -> zmailer/qmail, since /usr/sbin/sendmail will be overwritten (actually, this is the only real reason I don't run zmailer on systems where I keep -current since I far prefer it to sendmail for a number of reasons. Others have different preferences obviously). At this risk of confusing the issue further, there's also the ports/packages system to consider. > - futures. When a new disk with lots of slices and partitions on it > is detected, how is its mode and group changed so that a member of > group operator can access it? I guess this is one case where persistence wins. Once changed, the system shutdown, and when next initialised it will be correct. Defaulting to 0600 0.0 would seem reasonable. What other options are there? > >Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise > >the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, > >Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an > >overkill. > > I expect a tree of devices would be overkill too. You would need evil > symlinks to reduce /dev/disks/raw/scsi/bus0/id0/lun0/slice2/partitionh > to something like /dev/rsd0h :-). Please, don't remind me again of Solari's /devices and /dev symlink nightmare. I've almost recovered and would hate to suffer a relapse. :) Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 07:42:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA02378 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet.hamilton.on.ca (0@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA02371 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:42:53 -0800 (PST) From: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca [199.212.94.66]) by freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01747; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:42:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA18539; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:44:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:44:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701121544.KAA18539@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> X-Mailer: slnr v.2.13 as ported to FreeBSD To: eivind@dimaga.com cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In Email, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > I'm in favour. I haven't yet seen a good browser for info, and it is pain > to get the ones that exist to even open the files. While we're at it, it > would even be nice to have the man-pages as HTML - not as a replacement > format, but as an alternative. Rewrite them all in docbook, and you'd probably be just about set. I've seen a docbook->man thingy somewhere and I'm sure docbook->html exists, too. -- tIM...HOEk "You really sound as if some XEmacs user has raped your favourite gnu and you want to go with a large flamethrower after all of them." - Erik Naggum From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 07:45:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA02481 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA02476 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id CAA15506; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:44:40 +1100 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:44:40 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701121544.CAA15506@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Subject: Re: default permission for audio devices Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >/etc/fbtab is here to define ownership and permissions changes at login >time anyway. It doesn't work right with virtual consoles. I think it is too simple to work right. If you use it only for ttyv0, then the devices that it controls may be inaccessible when you're logged in to another console (e.g., root on ttyv0, bde on ttyv1). If you use it for all consoles, then the ownerships get blown away when you login to a different console (e.g., bde on ttyv0, root on ttyv1). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 07:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA02597 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA02592 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA03048; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:48:50 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:48:49 +0000 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: eivind@dimaga.com (Eivind Eklund) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com>; from Eivind Eklund on Jan 12, 1997 14:54:50 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eivind Eklund writes: > I'm in favour. I haven't yet seen a good browser for info, and it is pain > to get the ones that exist to even open the files. While we're at it, it > would even be nice to have the man-pages as HTML - not as a replacement > format, but as an alternative. FWIW, rman (Rossetta man) can do this pretty well (convert man pages to html amongst other things). A simple cgi front-end can do it all for you on the X desktop, although I've come to appreciate tkman+glipse for some time. > With a small lookup-program and automatic conversion, it might > even be a usable alternative - I might try to create a CGI to > do automatic conversion as an experiment. Fortunately, the work is already done. :-) Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 08:21:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA03895 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA03887 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA00470; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:51 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mounting devfs on /dev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, J Wunsch wrote: > As Bruce Evans wrote: > > > (At first only the unmount process seemed to be hung - ps was able to > > run and should the process hanging on vgone. Now ps in ddb show that > > many processes are hanging on ufslk2. I thought that this problem was > > fixed.) > > I've experienced the same yesterday. I didn't care for the hanging > umount, and proceeded using the machine. That might explain why reboot doesn't complete its job when devfs is mounted. I always have to hit reset to complete the reboot. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 08:32:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA04309 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA04304 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id RAA19039 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:31:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id RAA03348; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:09:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:09:30 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <199701121158.MAA09203@ravenock.cybercity.dk> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121158.MAA09203@ravenock.cybercity.dk>; from sos@FreeBSD.ORG on Jan 12, 1997 12:58:44 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As sos@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: > AMEN!!, we _dont_ need info files, make the man pages (as god intended > them to be) or at least HTML... Well, i think there's room for both, a man-style utility, and a fancy xref'ing utility, e.g. HTML-based. I usually prefer man pages for a quick reference. However, there are examples in the man pages that would better off in HTML. Funny, mdoc.samples(7) is a good example to begin with :), but things like the Perl 5 man page are good candidates for something that goes well beyond the limit of the historic man system. However, i would still prefer a quick reference for Perl as a man page, a terse one, just mentioning all the builtins and the syntax (but leaving out the semantics details). This would come handy for a quick reference if you already basically know what you want. If we prefer to convert all the .texi docs into HTML, i'm all for it. I think both formats are fairly compatible and similar in their goals (only that texinfo is older, from an era where HTML was nothing known). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 09:52:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA07447 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA07397 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA20806 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:50:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA00358; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:04:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:03:59 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Jan 13, 1997 01:44:33 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > >> I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we > >> could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. > > > >Yes, that would certainly be the way to do it. > > Not really. Things it doesn't do right include: > - wildcards. The equivalent of `chmod 666 /dev/tty[pqrs][PQRS]*' is a > huge list. Very simple. Perform your above chmod, and reboot the system. :) I don't suppose the devfs.init mtree description should primarily be maintained manually. > - futures. When a new disk with lots of slices and partitions on it > is detected, how is its mode and group changed so that a member of > group operator can access it? /usr/sbin/sysinstall -diskSetup can do this on behalf of the admin, or if he prefers to run all the disklabel, newfs, and chmods himself, he is free to do so. For the rest, see previous paragraph. ;-) > I expect a tree of devices would be overkill too. You would need evil > symlinks to reduce /dev/disks/raw/scsi/bus0/id0/lun0/slice2/partitionh > to something like /dev/rsd0h :-). This somehow reminds me of SIEMENS/Nixdorf's SINIX system. :) Though i think some ``commonly known'' alias names would come very handy, like /dev/[r]root, /dev/rtape etc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 09:53:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA07503 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA07479 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA21046 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:52:50 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA00382; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:11:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:11:20 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from David Nugent on Jan 12, 1997 00:38:53 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Nugent wrote: > KISS works better. Any /etc/rc.shutdown has /etc/sysconfig as a > resource and should use it if relevent. I don't mind. > And please - PLEASE - no "runlevels"! Yeah. Actually, we do already have runlevels: S, 0, [234] (depending on the actual SysV vendor), and 6. :-) But i agree that extending this to more runlevels is useless. I have yet to see a single SysV implementation that groks all runlevel transitions without silly actions like starting up subsystems if you lower the runlevel etc. (Shutdown grace period) > Make it configurable (sysctl var?), but 10 seconds would seem like a I think the user or machdep facilities of sysctl might come handy here. Opinions? > reasonable default on most systems. I've found that if a news server, > for example, is particularly busy, it can take up to a minute for > ctlinnd shutdown to complete. A shutdown 'fastboot' option to bypass > the shutdown script might also be useful. There's always `reboot -q'. > Of course, the 10 seconds wait is a moot point if the script returns > earlier... Yes, if the shutdown script exited, init can proceed. > Naturally, this brings ports in, with /usr/local/etc/rc.d scripts > again, but you knew that. :-) Yep. The scripts there do already get an argument "start" passed from /etc/rc. > Perhaps the *existance* of an /etc/rc.shutdown will be enough to > trigger it. Yep. Failure to find the script could be syslogged. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 09:54:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA07634 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA07593 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA21167 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:53:49 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA00415; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:35:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:35:42 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Ollivier Robert on Jan 12, 1997 16:03:14 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > May I remind everyone that I proposed a change for this in 1994 ? :-) Some things need time to get ripe. ;-) Well, i remember that the issue popped up every now and then. During the last discussion, i remember that there has been reached basic agreement that a shutdown script would be a good thing. > In this scheme, init does all the job of bringing the system down and > reboot/halt only send a signal to init instead of doing the job themselves. > The patch for reboot/halt has to be written though. Why do they need to be changed? If somebody says `reboot -q', it doesn't need to go via init. > + /* Try to run the rc.shutdown script */ > + rcdown = runshutdown(); > + if (rcdown) > + stall("Could not run %s, check this please.", _PATH_RUNDOWN); > + I think stall() is the wrong thing to do here. If the shutdown script fails, it's best to log what can be logged, and proceed to really shut down the system to the desired state. Otherwise, considere a machine that's rebooted remotely: you _want_ to have it rebooted, whatever might happen. If it fails to execute part of the shutdown procedure, you can learn this from the log after it rebooted. Having it jumping out to single-user will cause a fatal error since you need an operator on the console afterwards. > + * Exit codes: XXX I should document more > + * 0 good. > + * 1 fatal error > + * 2 some error Same as above. > + /* > + * Copied from single_user(). This is a bit paranoid. > + */ > + do { > + if ((wpid = waitpid(-1, &status, WUNTRACED)) != -1) > + collect_child(wpid); Here's an alarm() missing, to prevent infinite hangs of the shutdown script. Such an infinite hang should be answered with sending rc.shutdown a terminate signal, and by syslogging it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 09:55:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA07714 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA07702 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA21289 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:54:50 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA00424; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:38:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:38:21 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from David Nugent on Jan 12, 1997 02:48:49 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Nugent wrote: > FWIW, rman (Rossetta man) can do this pretty well (convert man > pages to html amongst other things). Well, i think we've got a special case here. Plain ol' man pages should be converted by such a tool, which i think involves a lot of guessing. -mdoc pages should better be converted from the source. The mdoc format contains everything you need to construct HTML from it, you `only' need to establish a mapping between the related features. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 10:09:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08527 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com (gargoyle.bazzle.com [206.103.246.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA08521 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:09:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com (net2 [206.103.246.189]) by gargoyle.bazzle.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA02266; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:09:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Eric J. Chet" To: Eivind Eklund cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > At 11:59 AM 1/12/97 +0100, J Wunsch wrote: > >Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is usually > >identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there are people who > >don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and the attitude ``use it > >to read the info files or die'' would just cause me to say: to the > >hell with all the info files. Make them HTML or man pages. (We > >already sorta rely on HTML, see the FAQ and the handbook.) > > I'm in favour. I haven't yet seen a good browser for info, and it is pain > to get the ones that exist to even open the files. While we're at it, it > would even be nice to have the man-pages as HTML - not as a replacement > format, but as an alternative. > > With a small lookup-program and automatic conversion, it might even be a > usable alternative - I might try to create a CGI to do automatic conversion > as an experiment. > > > Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ > Hello I always view the info files as html. Check out http://www.bazzle.com/cgi/info2html.cgi this is a slow link so be nice. There is a pointer at the bottom of the page for info2html. Peace, Eric J. Chet - ejc@naserver1.cb.lucent.com - ejc@bazzle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 10:30:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA09351 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA09333 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA21995; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:28:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id SAA00588; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:53:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:53:48 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: eivind@dimaga.com (Eivind Eklund) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Numerous minor with 2.1.6 References: <3.0.32.19970112155356.009c1100@dimaga.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970112155356.009c1100@dimaga.com>; from Eivind Eklund on Jan 12, 1997 15:53:57 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Eivind Eklund wrote: > 3) Many packages missed (I don't know exactly which, due to having set 'yes > to all non-critical questions') - no solution. (Except using ports to > install them afterwards) I think that's simply a matter of using the wrong INDEX file (the one from the ports, not packages). > 4) FreeBSD happily wrote a non-functioning boot-manager on my dangerously > dedicated disk. Solution: Don't do that. (I ended up bringing the box to > another location which already had a FreeBSD-machine, Known problem. You are prevented from this if you go straight through the menus, but not if you go back to the partition editor. Sysinstall needs some overhaul to handle all ``DD'' situations correctly (it should also detect if an existing disk did already come in in DD mode). > 7) The lynx port was 2.5FM - which no longer exist on the FTP sites > mentioned. Solution: I grabbed the -current ports collection, and > installed 2.6FM from it. Not free of problems - the MD5 checksum was wrong > (but the program worked when I disabled MD5). That's already fixed in 2.2 (and we can't do much about 2.1.6). 2.2's sysinstall uses 2.6something. > 8) The version of X downloaded is for 2.2 - it requires libc.so.3.0 > I've reported this to jmz@freebsd.org (maintainer for the port), but don't > know if it has been fixed (no reply yet). Solution for me: download the > 2.1.5 archives from xfree86.cdrom.com, and replace the distribution. There's supoosedly also an XFree86 3.2 for FreeBSD 2.1.x. I hope it found the way onto the CD-ROM... > 10) XFree86 3.2 would detect my Matrox Millenium 2064W, and all > documentation claim that the SVGA server support it - but it didn't work. That's something you should better report to the XFree86 folks (though there's an off chance that David Dawes will pick it up here, too). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 10:42:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA10281 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA10276 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25800; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:30:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121830.LAA25800@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:30:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 11, 97 11:52:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Huh? You mean, after a successful umount, i could not eject a > > > removable medium? I've never seen this, and i'm occasionally using a > > > MO drive. Not only that i could remove it after umounting, my `od' > > > driver even runs with the option to spin down the cartridge after > > > closing, so i would `hear' if the drive were still open. > > > The buffers for the device are not decommitted until the next vclean > > run, ... > > Perhaps they are not _guaranteed_ to be decommitted until the next > vclean run? No, i don't think so. umount(8) waits until all buffers > are clear, which often can take a tremendous amount of time on a MO > medium. Once umount(8) returns, the medium spins down immediately, > which basically means odclose() has been called. This proves your > theory wrong. Except that it's unreasonable to delay the unmount for vclean instead of explicitly committing the buffers, and my "theory" was predicated on the delay between when you issue "umount /dev/xxx; eject /dev/xxx" and the actual eject. Of course, you can't do anything about that, because theres no way to force the buffers which have been technically thrown away, but not yet reclaimed. Yes, I know this invokes yet another "theory"... the one that says people will probably want to remove removable media when they do an explicit unmount of said media, and the "corrolary" that says that the reason for doing this might be to insert different media in the same device. Naw, no one would *ever* want to do that.... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 10:45:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA10427 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:45:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA10414 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:44:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25809; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:33:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121833.LAA25809@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:33:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 11, 97 11:48:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > You are certainly right, but i think that's a moot point basically. > > > It requires you at least the following file in order to break: > > > > strdup() to the rescue! ... > > Failed. Try again. UTSL first. J"org, you are downright diabolical... Obviously, I wasn't citing code in this case, only a method of functional decomposition. This response is tantamount to claming that only a single function decomposition can suit each problem... and I don't believe that for a second. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 10:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA10769 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:51:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA10763 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25821; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:38:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121838.LAA25821@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:38:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David Nugent" at Jan 12, 97 00:38:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What are the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) > > Shoot first and ask questions later? :-) > > Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise > the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, > Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an > overkill. This really depends on whether you expect to install third party commercial software, or not, doesn't it? Third party commercial software needs an interface for inserting tasks into the startup/shutdown mechanism such that it's possible for the tasks to be added/removed without post-processing rc files, since if only one vendor out of 200 vendors screws this up, your system is screwed entirely. It doesn't hurt that the mechanism shoul;d also guarantee ordering for what has been traditionally called "layered software products". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:03:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA11228 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11223 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25856; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:51:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121851.LAA25856@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:51:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701120209.VAA09833@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jan 11, 97 09:09:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > very little time writing, and massive amounts of time reading. Unless im > mistaken, with noatime set, meta data is almost never created, and even then > only updated in the case of the scheduled sync() call. Sorry; you are mistaken. The "noatime" option says not to act on access time update events. The majority of FS updates that result from read activity are the access time being updated on getdents() calls in opendir/readdir; a Minor number of access events are generated for the article files themselves. You seem to be confusing "noatime" with "async". The "async" option acts pretty much as you describe. > For performance reasons you would tend to break apart the standard > "USER newsreader/poster" operation and "newsfeed" operations, both > of which are read/write, both of which have many times the reads as > writes. > > In other words, if you run as suggested back a few lines, there performance > loss of running async should be damn close to zero.. ??? What I suggested is that if you are not writing data that you can't replicated from another news server, you can run "async", and if you crash, you can rebuild your entire news spool (if necessary) by nntp transfer. I also suggested that local article postings are one of the things you *can't* get back this way, *unless* you locally post to a seperate server that *isn't* running "async" and won't need rebuilt. So if all you ever store on the news spool of the "async" server is data that came from the news spool on non-"async" servers, then it's OK to run "async". The problem we are trying to solve is "what happens to local users postings when the news server running 'async' crashes and loses some or all of its data" ...which it *will* do because that's the risk "async" exposes you to. You could rephrase this as "Is there any safe way to run 'async'?", with the answer being "Yes, if you only read from, and never post directly to, the 'async' server". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:06:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA11383 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA11378 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA13998; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:05:53 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701121905.OAA13998@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:05:53 -0500 (EST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701121851.LAA25856@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 12, 97 11:51:35 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry; you are mistaken. > > The "noatime" option says not to act on access time update events. > > The majority of FS updates that result from read activity are the > access time being updated on getdents() calls in opendir/readdir; > a Minor number of access events are generated for the article files > themselves. > > You seem to be confusing "noatime" with "async". The "async" option > acts pretty much as you describe. You've misread what I said. Using atime with sync's done every 300 seconds I would beleive is very similar in performance to async, without the risks. This is of course only in the case of a news spool. > You could rephrase this as "Is there any safe way to run 'async'?", > with the answer being "Yes, if you only read from, and never post > directly to, the 'async' server". No No, perhaps I wasnt clear. I was never advocating running async, its a big bad idea IMHO. I was attempting to show that running with noatime and sync's pushed back to be infrequent (300 seconds) you get nearly the performance win of async, without the risks.. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:06:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA11404 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:06:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11397 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25878; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:54:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121854.LAA25878@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: unused variable in su To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:54:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701120217.MAA09886@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 12, 97 12:47:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > > Personally, I'd use strdup() istead of an auto buffer to allocate > > the buffer at whatever size is necessary... ie: get rid of shellbuf > > entirely and replace: > > > > shell = strcpy(shellbuf, pwd->pw_shell); > > with: > > shell = strdup( pwd->pw_shell); > > > > But, hey, that's me, using strdup() for what it was intended to do. > > You could, however, try reading the code in question, and note that > shell is potentially reassigned several times. You would either have > to record whether it was pointing at a strdup'd string as opposed to > the statically-assigned cpp constant, or you could unconditionally > strdup every time and always free it before reassigning. Personally, > I think that the original code is the most readable alternative. Well, I claimed that before the code was mangled to "(void)strcpy( ...)"; if the intent was to get rid of the static buffer, though, strdup is as good a method as any other. Clearly, the process isn't long-lived enough to care about reallocating data space without freeing it... the _exit() will clear the process address space in any event (execve/exit). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:08:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA11513 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11508 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA25908; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:56:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121856.LAA25908@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Can you install and run FreeBSD on a Iomega Jaz cartridge? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:56:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: Gregory_D_Moncreaff@ccmail.ed.ray.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701120223.MAA09898@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 12, 97 12:53:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is where you may have problems; many BIOSsen don't consider the > Jaz to be a 'bootable' device, because it reports itself as being a > removable. It would have to be an old SCSI controller for this... I have an NCR and an AHA1742 that both work... I believe you can rejumper it so it does not report itself this way. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:20:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12034 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA11992 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25927; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:06:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121906.MAA25927@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:06:32 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "David Nugent" at Jan 12, 97 02:26:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Bruce Evans writes: > > >> I've exchanged a couple of thoughts with Bruce about it. Maybe we > > >> could teach mtree(8) to help in this step. > > > > > >Yes, that would certainly be the way to do it. > > > > Not really. Things it doesn't do right include: > > - wildcards. The equivalent of `chmod 666 /dev/tty[pqrs][PQRS]*' is a > > huge list. > > This could be resolved. It will involve expanding mtree's syntax a > little (about which I admit to knowing next to nothing :-)), > but I believe the basic functionality should be part of mtree, or > if not mtree, then something along the same lines. Isn't this a non-starter? I mean, shouldn't pty's be handled by: int clonefd; int slavefd, masterfd; char ptypath[ MAXNAMLEN]; /* * Open clone device */ clonefd = open( "/dev/pty", O_RD); /* * Reserve cloned master/slave pair path */ ioctl( clonefd, PTYIOCALLOC, &ptypath); /* * Open reserved FS object (always 'master'). This will * hold the reference */ masterfd = open( ptypath, O_RDWR); /* * Now that rreference is held, clone device is not necessary */ close( clonefd); /* * Given an fd for the master, return an open fd on the slave; * it is not necessary for the slave to have an FS namespace * assignment (though it could, if it were needed for some * program for compatability. */ ioctl( masterfd, PTYIOCSLAVE, &slavefd); ... With 'ptypath' ending up containing something like "/dev/pty/000"... after all, there is no reason a "dir" can't be a device as well, since you can use VOP_READDIR() to iterate subdevices and VOP_READ() to operate on the device itself. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:21:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12127 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA12120 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA25941; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:17:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701121917.LAA25941@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:30:52 MST." <199701121830.LAA25800@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:17:03 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Perhaps they are not _guaranteed_ to be decommitted until the next >> vclean run? No, i don't think so. umount(8) waits until all buffers >> are clear, which often can take a tremendous amount of time on a MO >> medium. Once umount(8) returns, the medium spins down immediately, >> which basically means odclose() has been called. This proves your >> theory wrong. > >Except that it's unreasonable to delay the unmount for vclean instead >of explicitly committing the buffers, and my "theory" was predicated >on the delay between when you issue "umount /dev/xxx; eject /dev/xxx" >and the actual eject. > >Of course, you can't do anything about that, because theres no way to >force the buffers which have been technically thrown away, but not >yet reclaimed. Terry is simply wrong about what happens. All dirty buffers are written out and invalidated/reclaimed when the umount is called and all other buffers are invalidated/reclaimed. When all buffers are have been reclaimed, all vnodes and VM objects (and all other resources associated with the mounted filesystem) are invalidated and reclaimed. Umount doesn't return until this is completed, but the total delay is very short (less than 1 second). Any delay prior to 'eject' is not due to buffers being stuck or waits for the update process to run or anything of the sort. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:21:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12147 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA12113 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA23006 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:21:41 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id TAA01160; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:57:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:57:25 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size References: <199701121833.LAA25809@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121833.LAA25809@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 11:33:06 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > strdup() to the rescue! ... > > > > Failed. Try again. UTSL first. > > J"org, you are downright diabolical... > > Obviously, I wasn't citing code in this case, only a method of functional > decomposition. But you've got your point wrong. strdup(), as much you prefer it or not, was _by no means_ the answer to the question. The question was how much space to allocate for the pointers you get from strdup() or whatever has been chosen. You can solve this problem with realloc(), but it seems that the existing solution is, though dirty, much less overkill. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:22:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12185 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA12176 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id UAA23012 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:21:59 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id UAA01172; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:00:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:00:06 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701121830.LAA25800@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121830.LAA25800@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 11:30:52 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > Except that it's unreasonable to delay the unmount for vclean instead > of explicitly committing the buffers, and my "theory" was predicated > on the delay between when you issue "umount /dev/xxx; eject /dev/xxx" > and the actual eject. Hä? You're suggesting that the umount should _not_ wait now? :-) Otherwise, everything works as expected. You can eject (or spin down) the medium as soon as the umount completes. By `completes' i mean it returns to the shell. From my experience, it does _not_ wait until the update daemon comes along next time. If the umount takes a long time in your case (as it does much more noticable in the MO case), that's because you've got too many dirty buffers. Of course you can also wait first for the update daemon to come by, so afterwards the umount will complete instantly. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:22:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA12215 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bb.cc.wa.us ([208.8.136.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA12210 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:22:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chris@localhost) by mail.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.8.3) id LAA02024; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:18:51 GMT Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:18:51 +0000 () From: Chris Coleman To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPFILTER In-Reply-To: <199701120156.BAA01143@mail.bb.cc.wa.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > I have two cards in the FBSD box. fxp0 and vx0 > > fpx0 is 208.8.136.10 > > vx0 is 10.16.14.1 > > > > i have a client on 10.16.14.100 and i want it to be translated to > > a 208.8.136.10 address so that it can go out. > > echo "map fpx0 10.16.14.100/32 -> 208.8.136.10/32" | ipnat -f - OK. i did this, and did a ipnat -l and it showed up. I cant test it till tomorrow. But i have a few questions. Do i have to do this for each client? Do I have to add static routes? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:36:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA14184 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA14178 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:36:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25976; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:22:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121922.MAA25976@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:22:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701121444.BAA14336@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 13, 97 01:44:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise > >the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, > >Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an > >overkill. > > I expect a tree of devices would be overkill too. You would need evil > symlinks to reduce /dev/disks/raw/scsi/bus0/id0/lun0/slice2/partitionh > to something like /dev/rsd0h :-). Why? For all intents and purposes, you have described: o A raw device designator, which need not be a seperate semantic component o The fact that the controller is SCSI, which no one should care about at this level, and which shouln't be under "disks" anyway. Besides which, the information is otherwise retrievable via an ioctl() to the device to retrieve underlying physica device info o The bus on the controller, which *also* no one cares about for the same reasons as above o The SCSI id, which is irrelevant, since it was reflected in the arrival order for the physical devices. So far, we have reduces to /dev/dsk/dsk0 o The SCSI lun, which for devices that fan out by lun, is a physical to logical partitioning scheme, and for devices which do not fan out, are seperate devices anyway. So we are /dev/dsk/dsk0 ... /dev/dsk/dskN or, we are /dev/dsk/dsk0/p0 ... /dev/dsk/dsk0/pN o The slice, which is truly partitioning (invokes physical to logical layering). o The partition, which is truly partitioning (invokes physical to logical layering). The point of the device hierarchy in my examples was to give entry points for a putative "universal fdisk" utility, which could handle all partitioning tasks, regardless of the partitioning schema used to implement them. It was *not* to provide some name space incursion mechanism for all possible fan outs (though one has to agree that any series of 1->N fanouts is probably better handled by hierarch than by changing the exposed device name). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA14381 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA14367 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25990; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:27:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121927.MAA25990@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:27:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 06:11:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > And please - PLEASE - no "runlevels"! > > Yeah. Actually, we do already have runlevels: S, 0, [234] (depending > on the actual SysV vendor), and 6. :-) > > But i agree that extending this to more runlevels is useless. I have > yet to see a single SysV implementation that groks all runlevel > transitions without silly actions like starting up subsystems if you > lower the runlevel etc. That is because they are not truly runlevels, they are runstates, with concordant service configuration lists. There as *some* attempt to use them as levels (0 = single user, 1 = multiuser, 2 = networking enabled, 3 = exported services enabled, 6 = shutdown) in many SVR3/SVR4 implementations... only 6 violates the level ordering, really. 4 and 5 were reserved for user defined system and service activation above and betond the system stuff. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:46:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA14959 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA14927 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA26007; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:34:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121934.MAA26007@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:34:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701121905.OAA13998@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jan 12, 97 02:05:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You seem to be confusing "noatime" with "async". The "async" option > > acts pretty much as you describe. > > You've misread what I said. Using atime with sync's done every 300 > seconds I would beleive is very similar in performance to async, > without the risks. This is of course only in the case of a news spool. Ah... you are claiming the only metadata events for a read-only news spool are atime related. I agree with you, then... > > You could rephrase this as "Is there any safe way to run 'async'?", > > with the answer being "Yes, if you only read from, and never post > > directly to, the 'async' server". > > No No, perhaps I wasnt clear. I was never advocating running async, its a big > bad idea IMHO. I was attempting to show that running with noatime and sync's > pushed back to be infrequent (300 seconds) you get nearly the performance win > of async, without the risks.. The "noatime" means "noatime", not "async atime". I think changing the sync frequency for update will have no effect, unless theres a conflict with the free buffer high water mark. Even so, if that happened, then you are trading update time for blocking access to buffers for some users (assuming the reclaim high water mark is set correctly, which I believe it is). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA16833 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA16828 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA14323; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:50:52 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701121950.OAA14323@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:50:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701121934.MAA26007@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 12, 97 12:34:40 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The "noatime" means "noatime", not "async atime". > I know this! You are reading words into my sentences that arent there! > I think changing the sync frequency for update will have no effect, > unless theres a conflict with the free buffer high water mark. Even > so, if that happened, then you are trading update time for blocking > access to buffers for some users (assuming the reclaim high water > mark is set correctly, which I believe it is). Changing the sync frequencey does matter, you get lots and lots of updates to the same metadate on incoming news feeds. You can gain some extra performance by not writing out the data that is under so much change so often. To be exact, you about halve the time (okay not quite so exact :) spent flushing disks over the 5 minute period. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 11:57:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA17419 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA17414 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA14404; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:57:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:57:17 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701121957.OAA14404@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A cool xterm? Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <5bah74$l6u@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >As Joachim Isaksson wrote: >> xterm*VT100.Translations: #override \ >> Print: string("eval `/usr/X11R6/bin/resize`") string(0x0d) \ n\ >> ShiftUp: scroll-back(1,line) \n\ >> ShiftDown: scroll-forw(1,line) \n\ >> Prior: scroll-back(1,page) \n\ >> Next: scroll-forw(1,page) \n\ >> Home: scroll-back(1000,page) \n\ >> End: scroll-forw(1000,page) >> >> Page up/down for screen up/down, shift arrow up/down for line up/down, >> Home/End for start/end of scrollback and PrtSc to get resize evaluated. >What's that resize crap^H^H^H^Hstuff good for? I never found a good >excuse to have it. Does the terminal window size structure not work >for you? It is awesome, it queries the END display to get its size, so no matter what convoulted messed up, ass backwards route you took to get to the other end, you can actually count on the correct screen size. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:00:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA17641 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA17635 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA26105; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:47:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121947.MAA26105@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:47:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701121917.LAA25941@root.com> from "David Greenman" at Jan 12, 97 11:17:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry is simply wrong about what happens. All dirty buffers are written out > and invalidated/reclaimed when the umount is called and all other buffers are > invalidated/reclaimed. When all buffers are have been reclaimed, all vnodes > and VM objects (and all other resources associated with the mounted filesystem) > are invalidated and reclaimed. Umount doesn't return until this is completed, > but the total delay is very short (less than 1 second). Any delay prior to > 'eject' is not due to buffers being stuck or waits for the update process to > run or anything of the sort. I have had delays on the order of a minute when umounting my JAZ disk. I realize FreeBSD has problems handling JAZ drives that the other BSD's do not, like getting the media size right for a drive without meduia inserted instead of throwing an error into dmesg: (ncr0:1:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.60" type 0 removable SCSI 2 sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB sd1 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry sd1(ncr0:1:0): NOT READY asc:3a,0 Medium not present sd1: could not get size 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) However, I doubt if this is JAZ specific; it seems more related to it being removable than anything else. (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). The eject was manual. Truly, when I press the eject button, an "umount -f" operation should occur on behalf of the FS's mounted on the drive... oh well. In any case, I have to wait a long time. NetBSD and OpenBSD running on the same hardware do not have the same delay. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:03:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA17797 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA17792 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA26127; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:52:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701121952.MAA26127@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:52:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 07:57:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > strdup() to the rescue! ... > > > > > > Failed. Try again. UTSL first. > > > > J"org, you are downright diabolical... > > > > Obviously, I wasn't citing code in this case, only a method of functional > > decomposition. > > But you've got your point wrong. strdup(), as much you prefer it or > not, was _by no means_ the answer to the question. The question was > how much space to allocate for the pointers you get from strdup() or > whatever has been chosen. You can solve this problem with realloc(), > but it seems that the existing solution is, though dirty, much less > overkill. You were the one concerned with the fixed buffer size (apparently as a means of an unlikely stack overflow attack). You were also the one concerned about "readability" for a well defined return value from strcpy(), which everyone reading the code *should* now is the copy target address. strdup() allocates as much space as it needs to; you do not allocate space for pointers from strdup(); strdup() is an allocation function. The very idea of needing to know how much space to allocate to contain the result of an allocation which has already occurred is a non-sequitur. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:13:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA18596 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA18589 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA26148; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:00:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701122000.NAA26148@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:00:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 08:00:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Except that it's unreasonable to delay the unmount for vclean instead > > of explicitly committing the buffers, and my "theory" was predicated > > on the delay between when you issue "umount /dev/xxx; eject /dev/xxx" > > and the actual eject. > > You're suggesting that the umount should _not_ wait now? :-) No. I am suggesting that it should trigger the action rather than delaying until the action has occurred of its own accord. We have an interactive user event (the "umount" request), and we are capable of servicing it, yet we delay servicing it for an operation which we could also trigger as a result of the event, but which we do not. What has happened is that, for no good reason, the event and the response to the event have been time decoupled. > Otherwise, everything works as expected. You can eject (or spin down) > the medium as soon as the umount completes. By `completes' i mean it > returns to the shell. From my experience, it does _not_ wait until > the update daemon comes along next time. > > If the umount takes a long time in your case (as it does much more > noticable in the MO case), that's because you've got too many dirty > buffers. Of course you can also wait first for the update daemon to > come by, so afterwards the umount will complete instantly. :) Oh come now! I've written too much to my drive?!?! What's the point of having a honking big drive if I'm never allowed to write to the thing more than a little bit between mounts? Foo! The drive light does not go active until updated fires the writes; I can intentionally time this so that the umount request is submitted only after the updated competes and goes back to sleep. Consider that I might use the JAZ drive for the reason IOmega states they sell it: to back up my system. Therefore my "umount" follows immediately on the heels of my last "close". At best, it's an average of 50% of the update period for the machine (which for my box is 120 seconds). Yes, I know my update value is tuned large... the update operation should not be predicated on a timer in the umount case, since we have a umount "event" in the kernel to precipitate the update on behalf of the user. *CLEARLY*, we have a human being waiting on the other side of the umount command, either explicitly, or implicitly (ie: waiting for umount while waiting for shutdown). It is bad form, indeed, to make the human wait, arbitrarily. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:36:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA19648 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA19643 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA26261; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701122033.MAA26261@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:34:40 MST." <199701121934.MAA26007@phaeton.artisoft.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:33:53 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The "noatime" means "noatime", not "async atime". > >I think changing the sync frequency for update will have no effect, >unless theres a conflict with the free buffer high water mark. Even >so, if that happened, then you are trading update time for blocking >access to buffers for some users (assuming the reclaim high water >mark is set correctly, which I believe it is). The two options are complimentary. i.e., "async" will get you fast file creates/deletes, but it doesn't stop the access time from being updated - it just delays it until the inode buffer needs to be reclaimed. "noatime" doesn't make creates/deletes any faster, but it does completely get rid of the inode updates when just reading the articles. Similarly, changing the update daemon frequency from 30 seconds to 300 seconds won't help with reducing the update of the access time on inodes. What will happen is that the inode buffer will need to be reclaimed long before 5 minutes runs out so you'll have to write it out much sooner anyway. It also won't help with file creates/deletes which happen syncronously and aren't effected by 'sync'. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:51:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20529 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA20507 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:50:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25009 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:50:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA12622; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:40:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:40:06 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701122000.NAA26148@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701122000.NAA26148@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 13:00:59 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > Otherwise, everything works as expected. You can eject (or spin down) > > the medium as soon as the umount completes. > The drive light does not go active until updated fires the writes; Then this must be TerryBSD. :-) In FreeBSD, umount(2) triggers the buffer write (as David has explained you from a theoretical point of view, and i tried to prove you from my own experience with my MO drive). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:51:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20556 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA20547 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25020 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:51:27 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA13526; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:47:16 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:47:15 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701121917.LAA25941@root.com> <199701121947.MAA26105@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121947.MAA26105@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 12:47:36 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > I realize FreeBSD has problems handling JAZ drives that the other > BSD's do not, like getting the media size right for a drive without ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > meduia inserted instead of throwing an error into dmesg: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You simply can't do this. Either, the drive reports a medium size, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you're at wits end: the drive could support differently sized media as well, so you can't even guess which one Terry will insert next. ;-) > > (ncr0:1:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.60" type 0 removable SCSI 2 > sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access > sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB This one might be a FreeBSD driver problem. You can compile your kernel with SCSIDEBUG enabled, to learn which SCSI command triggered that problem. > sd1 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): NOT READY asc:3a,0 Medium not present > sd1: could not get size > 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > > However, I doubt if this is JAZ specific; it seems more related to it > being removable than anything else. > > (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). The drive was not read. It claimed the medium being not present. How should the driver know that there really was a medium in the drive, if it claims wrong? (FreeBSD had a problem with devices saying ``Device is in the process of becoming ready'', but i fixed this recently.) > The eject was manual. Which eject? > Truly, when I press the eject button, an "umount -f" operation should > occur on behalf of the FS's mounted on the drive... oh well. I'm afraid you gotta wait for SCSI-4 for this to happen. AFAIK, the drive doesn't start a transaction on the bus if you press the eject button, saying ``Terry wishes to eject my cartridge right now''. :-) So the system couldn't know, even at best willingness. (It doesn't even announce the arrival of a new medium unless you ask for it, sadly.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20576 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA20571 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA25027 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:51:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id VAA13806; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:37 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size References: <199701121952.MAA26127@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701121952.MAA26127@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 12:52:08 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > But you've got your point wrong. strdup(), as much you prefer it or > > not, was _by no means_ the answer to the question. The question was > You were the one concerned with the fixed buffer size (apparently as > a means of an unlikely stack overflow attack). Yes. But Terry, you totally missed the point here, i'm telling you for the third time now. I stop telling you this. Go, and read the code! You can't allocate an array of pointers with strdup(). Period. > You were also the one concerned about "readability" for a well defined > return value from strcpy(), which everyone reading the code *should* > now is the copy target address. This was in su(1), not in getusershell(3). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 12:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA20853 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA20846 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA14676; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:54:19 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199701122054.PAA14676@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:54:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701122033.MAA26261@root.com> from David Greenman at "Jan 12, 97 12:33:53 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The two options are complimentary. i.e., "async" will get you fast file >creates/deletes, but it doesn't stop the access time from being updated - it >just delays it until the inode buffer needs to be reclaimed. "noatime" doesn't > make creates/deletes any faster, but it does completely get rid of the inode > updates when just reading the articles. Similarly, changing the update daemon > frequency from 30 seconds to 300 seconds won't help with reducing the update > of the access time on inodes. What will happen is that the inode buffer will > need to be reclaimed long before 5 minutes runs out so you'll have to write > it out much sooner anyway. It also won't help with file creates/deletes > which happen syncronously and aren't effected by 'sync'. Hmm. Let me say what I feel is how a generaly large all-purpose news spool does per day. Create's and writes about 200k files and virtually zero directories. Reads about 1-2 million files and sends them off to the net. And delete's about 200k files a day (during one, hopefully, very small time period) A large number of reads should be satisfied out of memory cache (presuming you fill the box with enough memory). Setting noatime means that the duration of the sync() call in update() is markedly less (as obviously there is 1/5th to 1/10th the work to do). Now if I can push back the update() where it actually is pushed back (how?) there should be a fairly large percentage of updates occuring to the same directories, which should give me less update I/O's over the same time period. Meaning that when reads come in that must hit a disk, the chances of hitting a bottleneck because a update() is hitting all disks in the farm, is 10% as likely to happen. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 13:25:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA23153 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA23131 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA28659; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:24:52 +1100 (EST) From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199701122124.IAA28659@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Numerous minor with 2.1.6 In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 12, 97 06:53:48 pm" To: eivind@dimaga.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:24:51 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> 10) XFree86 3.2 would detect my Matrox Millenium 2064W, and all >> documentation claim that the SVGA server support it - but it didn't work. > >That's something you should better report to the XFree86 folks (though >there's an off chance that David Dawes will pick it up here, too). I'm not aware of any major problems with the driver in 3.2 (other than its speed). Please send a detailed report to XFree86@XFree86.org. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 13:33:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA23939 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA23930 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA09381; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:34:30 +0100 (MET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199701122134.WAA09381@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: proff@suburbia.net Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:34:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19961208140451.3454.qmail@suburbia.net> from "proff@suburbia.net" at "Dec 9, 96 01:04:51 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I know this thread is really old, but I didn't get around to reading it until just now. According to proff@suburbia.net: [ .. About ktrace with output to stdout .. ] > > > ktrace ./foo & kdump -l > > > > and make sure you don't fill your filesystem.... > > > > Darren > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. Yeah! It would be GREAT for logs.. Just give the file a size, and then mark it cyclic, for example, would be an easy implementation, no? User interface wise at least. Something like: mkfile 3000 the.log # Create a file with a size chmod u+c the.log # Make it cyclic. It will never grow I mean... I don't know if I've got it all wrong, but isn't a file in the filesystem like a linked list of blocks? If so, then it seems trivial to free the first block and add a new at the end, when you append something to a file. Or? Am I completely off line here? I think that for logs, at least debug logs, you often get a lot of information, but it's only interesting a certain while. When you forget to rotate the file, or can't because some daemon has the file open constantly, or you get abnormally high load on the daemon, so you get more logged then normal, then suddenly you stand there with a full filesystem. A cyclic filetype would be great! /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 13:39:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA24407 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA24402 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) id IAA28691; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:38:58 +1100 (EST) From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199701122138.IAA28691@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: XFree86 broken on ftp.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970111204338.00ae2964@Gatekeeper-3.Lamb.net> from Ulf Zimmermann at "Jan 11, 97 08:43:39 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:38:58 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >It was Xfree86.org. The other mirrors are broken too. You can get from me >faster, I think, if you want. It looks like changing a symlink to a directory into a real directory has caused mirroring problems. That was the only change on ftp.xfree86.org. Can anyone suggest a better way of making a change like this? David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 13:40:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA24501 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:40:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA24496 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA26338; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:28:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701122128.OAA26338@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:28:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 09:40:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Otherwise, everything works as expected. You can eject (or spin down) > > > the medium as soon as the umount completes. > > > The drive light does not go active until updated fires the writes; > > Then this must be TerryBSD. :-) In FreeBSD, umount(2) triggers the > buffer write (as David has explained you from a theoretical point of > view, and i tried to prove you from my own experience with my MO > drive). When I close a file, I schedule dirty buffers to be written. But I do not dissociate the inode from the vnode until that write has taken place because buffers are indexed by vnode/offset, not by device offset. If I do a bunch of writes, a close, and then a umount, there is a potential delay of the update time between the time the dirty buffer is written and the time it has successfully been reclaimed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 13:50:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA25393 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA25386 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA26359; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:38:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701122138.OAA26359@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:38:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 09:47:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I realize FreeBSD has problems handling JAZ drives that the other > > BSD's do not, like getting the media size right for a drive without > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > meduia inserted instead of throwing an error into dmesg: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You simply can't do this. Either, the drive reports a medium size, or > it doesn't. If it doesn't, you're at wits end: the drive could > support differently sized media as well, so you can't even guess which > one Terry will insert next. ;-) Oh? So then why is the OS even looking until it gets an insertion event? If the media isn't present, it has no business making observations about geometry in the first place. > > (ncr0:1:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.60" type 0 removable SCSI 2 > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > > This one might be a FreeBSD driver problem. You can compile your > kernel with SCSIDEBUG enabled, to learn which SCSI command triggered > that problem. Mode sense on a drive it knows to (1) be removable and (2) to not have media inserted. > > However, I doubt if this is JAZ specific; it seems more related to it > > being removable than anything else. > > > > (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). > > The drive was not read. It claimed the medium being not present. How > should the driver know that there really was a medium in the drive, if > it claims wrong? (FreeBSD had a problem with devices saying ``Device > is in the process of becoming ready'', but i fixed this recently.) You are confusing the error on boot without media inserted with me explaining that the delay on umount was not the driver waiting for the drive to spin up. The parenthetical comment is logically seperate. > > The eject was manual. > > Which eject? The eject of the media following the umount which I've been complaining takes too long. > > Truly, when I press the eject button, an "umount -f" operation should > > occur on behalf of the FS's mounted on the drive... oh well. > > I'm afraid you gotta wait for SCSI-4 for this to happen. AFAIK, the > drive doesn't start a transaction on the bus if you press the eject > button, saying ``Terry wishes to eject my cartridge right now''. :-) > So the system couldn't know, even at best willingness. Maybe it could if it were hooked to a PCMCIA card. 8-). > (It doesn't even announce the arrival of a new medium unless you ask > for it, sadly.) I think you can have a request outstanding with a long timeout, which will be satisfied by insertion... I really, *really* hate the "click... click... click..." media presence checking that Win95 does on CDROMs... 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 14:01:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA26474 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA26466 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA26408; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:49:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701122149.OAA26408@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:49:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 12, 97 09:49:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > But you've got your point wrong. strdup(), as much you prefer it or > > > not, was _by no means_ the answer to the question. The question was > > > You were the one concerned with the fixed buffer size (apparently as > > a means of an unlikely stack overflow attack). > > Yes. But Terry, you totally missed the point here, i'm telling you > for the third time now. I stop telling you this. Go, and read the > code! > > You can't allocate an array of pointers with strdup(). Period. Ah... I see; never mind. I think erroring out to "okshells" on the malloc failure is a bit bogus... Wouldn'tr it be better to allocate the full file size, and strtok the \n's to nulls, and terminate with a double null instead? That way, you could pass back a pointer to a linear list. There's no reason initshells() has to pass back any particular type; after all, it's a static (internal use only) function. Probably the shell list is abstracted at the wrong level, causing the need for the pointer list? After all, a cast of the list should work, since they will be allocated contiguously... I guess you would still need to double-terminate the "okshells" list, though... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 14:31:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA28155 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (root@cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.2.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA28150 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.3/8.7.3) id UAA22599; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:31:17 -0200 (EDT) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199701122231.UAA22599@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Compiling kernel with optimisation To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:31:17 -0200 (EDT) Cc: andrew@ugh.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701121724.JAA25580@root.com> from David Greenman at "Jan 12, 97 09:24:20 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #define quoting(David Greenman) // >I just noticed that when compiling a kernel it is done with the -O flag. // >Would there be much speed improvement in the sytem if it was done with // >-O3? Would this break the kernel or is the added time it takes to compile // >not worth the benfits? // // It has very little effect on performance and optimizations levels > "-O" // have traditionally been broken in gcc. Well, the NetBSD team has managed to compile their kernel with -O6 and -Wall, but they had to change lots of things.. I don't know what do you call "little effect on performance", but 5% gain would be enough to make me think about. Unfortunately, I don't have any measurements (and even don't know how to do them). I tried -O6 once, and 2 files were broken in compile time !!! (Wow) I did dare once more, fixing those files and running that kernel. Panic in 5 seconds. :( I'm now trying -m486, and found no problem 'til now. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 ( Job ) jonny@cisi.coppe.ufrj.br Network Manager UFRJ/COPPE/CISI Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 14:42:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA28664 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:42:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA28653 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA29150; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:52:16 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:52:14 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > > > Last time the bitsurfr came up on this last it was to describe all the > > > problems with it. Has motorola fixed them? > > > thanks > > > ron > > What's the best low-cost way to connect two FreeBSD boxes, then? I'm > considering asking my supervisor for a perk rather than a pay raise, in > the form of upgrading my 28.8 dedicated link to the office to an ISDN > line, with a FreeBSD box on both ends. It'd cost me $500/month to get > that from an ISP, but they can afford the bandwidth, so it would be purely > a matter of line cost ($40 a month on each end plus hardware). Not that I > really need more bandwidth at home, but who doesn't want it? > > Naturally, if the cost is $700+ on each end for ISDN routers, it isn't > going to happen. Of course, at 115K async, it would only be a 50% > improvement over 64K, so I'd like to find a way to use all the bandwidth > as well, which the Bitsurfer pro will only do with a sync interface. Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 14:51:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA29087 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA29072 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27764 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:50:59 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id XAA06804; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:20:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:20:09 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701122138.OAA26359@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701122138.OAA26359@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 14:38:08 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > You simply can't do this. Either, the drive reports a medium size, or > > it doesn't. If it doesn't, you're at wits end: the drive could > > support differently sized media as well, so you can't even guess which > > one Terry will insert next. ;-) > > Oh? > > So then why is the OS even looking until it gets an insertion event? Since you misinterpreting it. It doesn't wait for an `insertion event' (since this doesn't exist at all). > If the media isn't present, it has no business making observations > about geometry in the first place. Yes, that's an error. > > > (ncr0:1:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.60" type 0 removable SCSI 2 > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > > > > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > > > > This one might be a FreeBSD driver problem. You can compile your > > kernel with SCSIDEBUG enabled, to learn which SCSI command triggered > > that problem. > > Mode sense on a drive it knows to (1) be removable and (2) to not have > media inserted. No. That doesn't make in invalid CDB, only a command returning with an error status. Please, don't guess, but have a look. Or send me the drive, so i can have a look. SCSIDEBUG is really your friend, even though the flood of data is hard to read. > > > (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). > > > > The drive was not read. It claimed the medium being not present. How (ready) > > should the driver know that there really was a medium in the drive, if > > it claims wrong? (FreeBSD had a problem with devices saying ``Device > > is in the process of becoming ready'', but i fixed this recently.) > > You are confusing the error on boot without media inserted with me > explaining that the delay on umount was not the driver waiting for > the drive to spin up. No. I am not. The drive said ``Media not present''. That's it. It didn't say ``...is in the process of becoming ready'' (which used to be fatal in FreeBSD but is no longer). > > (It doesn't even announce the arrival of a new medium unless you ask > > for it, sadly.) > > I think you can have a request outstanding with a long timeout, which will > be satisfied by insertion... No. It will be aborted by the drive with a ``Device not ready'' (or ``Media not present'') error before. You either need that click click click, or you have to live as it is. I prefer the latter. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 14:51:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA29133 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA29128 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA27774 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:51:29 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id XAA07469; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:23:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:23:32 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size References: <199701122149.OAA26408@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701122149.OAA26408@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 14:49:57 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > I think erroring out to "okshells" on the malloc failure is a bit > bogus... malloc errors are bogus, too. :) The hell will break afterwards anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it returns `okshells' or something else. > Wouldn'tr it be better to allocate the full file size, and strtok the > \n's to nulls, and terminate with a double null instead? That's an idea. I think noting down the pointers makes it easier to compare the strings later, but still, it could take this as an occasion to count the actual lines, and allocate the pointer to string array accordingly. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 15:00:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA29739 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA29734 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA00564; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 13:09:39 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 02:09:39 +0000 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: unused variable in su References: <199701110142.CAA28453@xp11.frmug.org> <199701110834.TAA07745@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 11, 1997 13:14:24 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > pwd is recycled later, and shell is potentially reset later, so > > this is the 'correct' way to do it. Don't change it. > > Still, it's fairly obfuscated code. It could be better worded: IMHO, it is fine (and yes, it should be strncpy()). Using the return from str[n]cpy() is not obfuscation. YMMV. Like a lot of readability issues it depends on what you're used to and what you code yourself. > This would be less confusing for compilers and human readers. Perhaps a comment (gasp!) might help. Even with your "clearer" code the intent may not be obvious. I don't believe the compiler will care much either way. :-) I'll add one since I happen to be working on su. > Btw., shouldn't it better be a strncpy() anyway? Sure, /etc/shells is > at the mercy of the sysadmin, but he isn't unfailable. It is /etc/master.passwd in this case, but what you say is still true. In a setuid binary no less, but fortunately no "return" anywhere in main(). Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 15:38:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA01486 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA01473 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08535; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:04:02 GMT Message-Id: <199701122304.XAA08535@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Chris Coleman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPFILTER In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:19:46 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:04:02 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Im setting up ipfilter to work on my system and I have it installed. > But i need help configuring the rules so that it will actually work. > > > I have two cards in the FBSD box. fxp0 and vx0 > fpx0 is 208.8.136.10 > vx0 is 10.16.14.1 > > i have a client on 10.16.14.100 and i want it to be translated to > a 208.8.136.10 address so that it can go out. > > how do i do this? > > thanks > > chris coleman You need something like map tun0 10.16.14.0/24 -> 208.8.136.10 in /etc/natrules (say), then run 'ipnat /etc/natrules' or something like that... I got this stuff working, but ftp DATA commands never worked and it crashed the machine a few times. Socks, cached and ppp -alias are all far superior ! -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 15:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA01902 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA01896 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA03743; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:51:19 -0800 (PST) To: Eivind Eklund cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Numerous minor with 2.1.6 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:53:57 +0100." <3.0.32.19970112155356.009c1100@dimaga.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:51:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3739.853113078@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1) After having loaded the kernel, just after starting "init" (sysinstall), > the system froze, but the VTYs worked. (Seems to have been an IO-area > conflict; it went away when I twiddled jumpers). Could be auto-detectable? I'm not sure about this one - none of my test systems exhibit this behavior. :( > 2) The description of proxy-FTP in the handbook leaves much to be desired; > I had a lot of work finding how to do it. (Suggestion for revised > handbook-entry sent to doc-mailing-list) - shorty: use options to set Which I'll take up, thanks. FWIW, I don't think that the Red Hat install even allows you to use a proxy server. :-) > 3) Many packages missed (I don't know exactly which, due to having set 'yes > to all non-critical questions') - no solution. (Except using ports to > install them afterwards) That was a bogus INDEX file - I think we've fixed that, though I'll go check. I know it's not the same on the CDROM. Perhaps I should send you a 2.1.6 CDROM to see how many of these problems persist there. :-) > 4) FreeBSD happily wrote a non-functioning boot-manager on my dangerously > dedicated disk. Solution: Don't do that. (I ended up bringing the box to > another location which already had a FreeBSD-machine, That's weird - how did you manage to get it to do that? That question should be skipped entirely when you choose the DD option; it was when I just tested it, anyway. Hmmmmm. > 7) The lynx port was 2.5FM - which no longer exist on the FTP sites > mentioned. Solution: I grabbed the -current ports collection, and Hmmm, that should be fixed somehow. > 8) The version of X downloaded is for 2.2 - it requires libc.so.3.0 > I've reported this to jmz@freebsd.org (maintainer for the port), but don't Really?? On ftp.cdrom.com, it's pointing at the 2.1-stable copies. Are you sure you followed the right link or installed it via sysinstall at initial installation time? > 9) SERIOUS: XFree86 _rebooted_ the box when /dev/mouse was linked to > /dev/mse0 and I ran a config with "Microsoft" as mouse protocol. /dev/mse0 Possible user error - did you enable the bus mouse in the kernel configuration menu? > 10) XFree86 3.2 would detect my Matrox Millenium 2064W, and all > documentation claim that the SVGA server support it - but it didn't work. Odd - it works just great with my same 2064W cards here. I've tested it several times. > This is more distribution-problems than I like. FreeBSD runs very nicely > once it is up, but I must admit to having had my share of problems getting > it up and running, which is unfortunate, as I would have liked to be able > to say it is easier than installing Linux :( I think it still is, you just seem to have had more than the usual amount of bad luck. :-) If you could get back to me on some of the "mystery problems" listed above, though, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 16:10:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA03074 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA03032 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA00442; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:08:23 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:08:22 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <199701121838.LAA25821@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701121838.LAA25821@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 12, 1997 11:38:03 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > What are the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) > > > > Shoot first and ask questions later? :-) > > > > Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise > > the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, > > Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an > > overkill. > > This really depends on whether you expect to install third party > commercial software, or not, doesn't it? No, it is more a question of the implementation. I can easily imagine a simpler scheme involving a flat file of scripts to run, in the order in which they run, for each runlevel or even all runlevels with a flag field to determine which runlevel each should be run. This is easily handled by a bourne shell script and doesn't involve the bogosity of symlinks. > Third party commercial software needs an interface for inserting > tasks into the startup/shutdown mechanism such that it's possible > for the tasks to be added/removed without post-processing rc files, > since if only one vendor out of 200 vendors screws this up, your > system is screwed entirely. Sure, I understand the need. But symlinks just obfuscate the entire process. There is no *logical* difference between the scheme I've suggested and what many sysv's use. Only the implementation differs in that the directory becomes the list - a much more difficult way to manage it. A vendor who "screws this up" has no business being a vendor at all. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 16:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA04778 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA04769 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA13172; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:45:48 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701130015.KAA13172@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 12, 97 09:47:15 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:45:46 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > > You simply can't do this. Either, the drive reports a medium size, or > it doesn't. If it doesn't, you're at wits end: the drive could > support differently sized media as well, so you can't even guess which > one Terry will insert next. ;-) ... which is the case with the Jaz; you can get 512M and 1GB disks. > > (ncr0:1:0): "iomega jaz 1GB G.60" type 0 removable SCSI 2 > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > > This one might be a FreeBSD driver problem. You can compile your > kernel with SCSIDEBUG enabled, to learn which SCSI command triggered > that problem. No, I don't think so. > > sd1 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > > > > sd1(ncr0:1:0): NOT READY asc:3a,0 Medium not present > > sd1: could not get size > > 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > > > > However, I doubt if this is JAZ specific; it seems more related to it > > being removable than anything else. > > > > (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). > > The drive was not read. It claimed the medium being not present. How > should the driver know that there really was a medium in the drive, if > it claims wrong? (FreeBSD had a problem with devices saying ``Device > is in the process of becoming ready'', but i fixed this recently.) Actually, Terry is lying. Those boot messages come from a Jaz with no disk inserted. Here's a Jaz with a disk in : lovely /kernel: (ncr0:6:0): "iomega jaz 1GB H.62" type 0 removable SCSI 2 lovely /kernel: sd6(ncr0:6:0): Direct-Access lovely /kernel: sd6(ncr0:6:0): 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) lovely /kernel: sd6(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB lovely /kernel: sd6 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry lovely /kernel: 1021MB (2091050 512 byte sectors) And the error is "I refuse to give you mode page 4", which is the "rigid disk geometry page", ie. the page where most disk lie outrageously about their supposed c/h/s geometry. > I'm afraid you gotta wait for SCSI-4 for this to happen. AFAIK, the > drive doesn't start a transaction on the bus if you press the eject > button, saying ``Terry wishes to eject my cartridge right now''. :-) > So the system couldn't know, even at best willingness. Correct; if the drive is mounted, it will have been locked. There's no way for a locked drive to singal its desire to be unlocked. > cheers, J"org -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 16:38:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA06746 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA06719 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA00889; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:29:38 GMT Message-Id: <199701130029.AAA00889@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:52:14 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:29:38 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > Danny Which ppp were you using ? -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 16:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA07577 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA07570 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA06500; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:51:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32D986DC.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:50:36 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc.shutdown References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > > May I remind everyone that I proposed a change for this in 1994 ? :-) > > Here is the patch again, against pre-2.0 init of course so it must be > modified now. It was at the time a partial patch because the discussions at > that time pushed for changing reboot/halt as well. There is now support in halt (within the kernel) for registering shutdown methods (which we use here). > > I have this under CVS so I could probably merge it with our current init. that would be nice :) > > In this scheme, init does all the job of bringing the system down and > reboot/halt only send a signal to init instead of doing the job themselves. > The patch for reboot/halt has to be written though. > > Now that you can have rc.d directory upon statup, we could teach > rc.shutdown to use the rc.d/ scheme as well in order to have proper > init/shutdown time initializations... > > All my rc.d scripts already supports "start" and "stop" arguments for > example... > > ---------------------------------------------------- > #! /bin/sh > PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/news/etc:/usr/local/news/bin > [.. patch deleted ..] does anyone think this is a BAD thing? should the script be run going down to single user? (It's complement is run on going to multi-user) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:01:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA07805 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA07800 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA06522; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:54:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32D98774.59E2B600@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:53:08 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: David Nugent , bde@zeta.org.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <199701121906.MAA25927@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I mean, shouldn't pty's be handled by: > [description of cloning devices deleted] yes, but it could be even simpler.. make the server side appear when you open and are assigned a client side pty. julian (patches accepted) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:26:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09033 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA09028 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA13721; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:54:51 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701130124.LAA13721@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Can you install and run FreeBSD on a Iomega Jaz cartridge? In-Reply-To: <199701121856.LAA25908@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 12, 97 11:56:35 am" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:54:50 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Gregory_D_Moncreaff@ccmail.ed.ray.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > This is where you may have problems; many BIOSsen don't consider the > > Jaz to be a 'bootable' device, because it reports itself as being a > > removable. > > It would have to be an old SCSI controller for this... I have an NCR > and an AHA1742 that both work... I've tried mine on an NCR, Bustek BT542 and Ultrastor 34f, and none of them will boot from it, presumably because it says it's a removable. > I believe you can rejumper it so it does not report itself this way. Do you believe in fairies too? The Jaz is designed for musicians; all of the controls are hard-to-get at, and do very little, in order to reduce their support load. Your options are : SCSI ID, termination off/auto/on. You might be able to change more if you pull it apart; I still have warranty-related delusions about mine so I'm not going to do that 8) > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:26:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09060 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA09051 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA06892; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:23:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32D98E38.FF6D5DF@whistle.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:22:00 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Somers CC: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, archie@alpo.whistle.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router References: <199701130029.AAA00889@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > Danny > > Which ppp were you using ? as he said.... mpd see ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.tgz and ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.README (included below) there is a b1 release file there also but the transfer failed.. we need to re-send it.. the files are null length. unfortunatly the address translation feature was not included in this release ----------------------------- MPD MULTI-LINK PPP DAEMON FOR FREEBSD Release 1.0a1 Written by Archie Cobbs Based on IIJ-PPP by Toshiharu OHNO * WHAT IS IT? A user-mode PPP daemon based on iij-ppp which supports multi-link PPP. It is a complete re-write of the original iij-ppp code. * IS THIS AN ALPHA RELEASE OR SOMETHING? Yes! The bug to documentation ratio is very high! * HOW DO I BUILD AND INSTALL IT? cd src make depend all install * HOW DO I SET IT UP? Check the "conf" directory for configuration file examples. There are four configuration files: mpd.conf - General configuration mpd.links - Description of available links mpd.script - Modem scripts mpd.secret - Login/password pairs If you're familiar with iij-ppp, the configuration method is similar: commands read from a file. * WHAT'S THE COPYRIGHT STATUS? Berkeley style: see ``COPYRIGHT.iij'' and ``COPYRIGHT.whistle''. * WHERE CAN I READ MORE ABOUT IT? In the "docs" directory is a preliminary man page and some other assorted stuff. In the "conf" directory are example configuration files with descriptive comments. * WHERE CAN I GO FOR HELP? I'll do my best to answer any questions. I'll also try to get a mailing list set up somewhere if demand warrants (any offers?). This is being released in its woefully undocumented state due to several people requesting it. Hopefully there will be more docs soon. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:32:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09438 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA09432 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id MAA13813; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:00:42 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701130130.MAA13813@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: <199701121947.MAA26105@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 12, 97 12:47:36 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:00:40 +1030 (CST) Cc: dg@root.com, terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > I have had delays on the order of a minute when umounting my JAZ disk. Sounds like you have a bug in your FS patches then. I beat the living crap out of mine on a regular basis (eg. 'make build' for NetBSD NFS clients, FreeBSD CVS repository, etc.), and 'umount' invariably gives a quick squitter and then the drive is ready to eject. > I realize FreeBSD has problems handling JAZ drives that the other > BSD's do not, like getting the media size right for a drive without > meduia inserted instead of throwing an error into dmesg: Huh? How do "other BSD's" handle reading the media size from a drive that handles variable size media? I think you're dreaming again. > sd1(ncr0:1:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > sd1 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry ... > However, I doubt if this is JAZ specific; it seems more related to it > being removable than anything else. Actually, it has to do with the people who did the SCSI firmware saying "modepage 4? On a ZBR drive? You've got to be kidding". And getting away with it. > sd1(ncr0:1:0): NOT READY asc:3a,0 Medium not present > sd1: could not get size > 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > ... > (yes, the drive was spun up at the time, so you can't blame that). Well it shure as shit didn't think it was spun up. There's not much the scsi code can do if the drive says it's empty. > Truly, when I press the eject button, an "umount -f" operation should > occur on behalf of the FS's mounted on the drive... oh well. ... yet you loathe polling the device for status? Well, I guess you could require that the device support being a master as well as a slave, and add however much (cost) to it. Yay. Not. > In any case, I have to wait a long time. NetBSD and OpenBSD running > on the same hardware do not have the same delay. ... probably because you're not running with your hacked kernel on them. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:34:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09671 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA09653 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA29414; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:44:53 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:44:52 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Brian Somers cc: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Multilink PPP (was Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router) In-Reply-To: <199701130029.AAA00889@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > Danny > > Which ppp were you using ? mpd from ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.0a1.tgz, with patches for use with Cyclades cards. Author is Archie Cobbs . There seems to be some empty mpd-1.0.b1.tgz files in the incoming directory. Archie?! Danny From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:38:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09989 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA09980 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25379 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24083 invoked by uid 110); 13 Jan 1997 01:38:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19970113013818.24081.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. In-Reply-To: from David Nugent at "Jan 13, 97 11:08:22 am" To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:38:18 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > What are the current ideas of a SysV init? :-) > > > > > > Shoot first and ask questions later? :-) > > > > > > Seriously, I've used sysv for many years, and grew to quickly despise > > > the sysv approach. It does have some good sides, but, for example, > > > Sun's tree of symlinks to init/shutdown scripts is definitely an > > > overkill. > > > > This really depends on whether you expect to install third party > > commercial software, or not, doesn't it? > > No, it is more a question of the implementation. > > I can easily imagine a simpler scheme involving a flat file of > scripts to run, in the order in which they run, for each runlevel > or even all runlevels with a flag field to determine which runlevel > each should be run. This is easily handled by a bourne shell script > and doesn't involve the bogosity of symlinks. > Regards, > > > David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia > Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet > davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ > I agree. Have you ever looked at a solaris rc tree? Very ugly. Apart from atomic startup/shutdown scripts, there is another important reason to have a sysv style init. Programs crash, and should be restarted when they crash, but not blindly, and this is where sysv init overcycling rules come into play. In terms of atomic third party software installation, I would by far prefer separate package nests of /opt/package/{bin,man,info,etc} than the current "throw it all into one basket" and goto ridiculous extremes in trying to work out which belongs to what with package managers. PATH, MANPATH, INFOPATH et al was invented for a reason. Adoption of my pseudo env-fs would be a good start for atomic management of environmental variables. Cheers, Julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 17:47:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA10332 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA10327 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:47:32 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25516 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24719 invoked by uid 110); 13 Jan 1997 01:47:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19970113014723.24718.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 12, 97 09:49:37 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:47:23 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You can't allocate an array of pointers with strdup(). Period. > realloc() Cheers, Julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 18:06:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA11002 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA10996 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smile.clinet.fi (root@smile.clinet.fi [194.100.1.117]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.8.2/8.6.4) with ESMTP id EAA12594 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:06:38 +0200 (EET) From: Heikki Suonsivu Received: (root@localhost) by smile.clinet.fi (8.7.5/8.6.4) id EAA19310 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:06:37 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:06:37 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199701130206.EAA19310@smile.clinet.fi> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Is it really going to be /usr/bin/ee ? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is FreeBSD project really going to push /usr/bin/ee as the standard editor for FreeBSD ? Could this be reconsidered, it is really confusing for users to have standard editor which has completely uncommon keyboard mappings for basic keys like movement (in addition to using things like esc-return for exiting; esc is not supposed to be used that way!) If the size of the editor is the problem, could the keyboard mappings be copied from pico or emacs so that it would be in line with other common software ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 18:14:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA11530 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA11524 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) id VAA18145; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:13:57 -0500 (EST) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199701130213.VAA18145@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: moused (fwd) To: mpp@freefall.freebsd.org (Mike Pritchard) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:13:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701121801.KAA08186@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Mike Pritchard" at Jan 12, 97 10:01:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I seem to recall seeing something about moused not working for > all mouse types, but don't know if it applies to this guys case. > Can anyone else help him? This is what I get for writing new man > pages, I guess :-). > no luck with 2.2-ALPHA on a ATI Bus mouse either. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 19:31:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA15907 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA15892 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA14557; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:00:43 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701130330.OAA14557@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Is it really going to be /usr/bin/ee ? In-Reply-To: <199701130206.EAA19310@smile.clinet.fi> from Heikki Suonsivu at "Jan 13, 97 04:06:37 am" To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:00:42 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu stands accused of saying: > > Is FreeBSD project really going to push /usr/bin/ee as the standard > editor for FreeBSD ? Could this be reconsidered, it is really No! This discussion was had some time back. The only reason 'ee' was used was size, with the added plus that for non-vi-intimates a typewriter-style editor was easier to come to grips with. If you don't like it, change your EDITOR setting; ee is there as a default for people that aren't likely to know about it. > If the size of the editor is the problem, could the keyboard mappings > be copied from pico or emacs so that it would be in line with other > common software ? Have a chat to the 'ee' author; it's third-party software. If you know of another small, simple editor that you think would be a good replacement, and bear in mind that it needs to be suitable for people that think that DOS' 'edit' is a powerful editor, please point us at it. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 20:20:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA17832 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA17826 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA14889; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:50:11 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701130420.OAA14889@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 userconfig.c In-Reply-To: <199701130413.UAA17537@freefall.freebsd.org> from Michael Smith at "Jan 12, 97 08:13:18 pm" To: msmith@freefall.freebsd.org (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:50:10 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith stands accused of saying: > msmith 97/01/12 20:13:17 > > Modified: sys/i386/i386 userconfig.c > Log: > - Add [?] key and corresponding helptext/pager. > (helptext from Philippe Regnauld) > - Make introfunc() work with serial terminals. > (submitted by Jean-Marc Zucconi) > - Eliminate excessive statusline redraw during screen updates. > (requested by Peter Wemm) > - Some trivial output formatting dinks. > > Revision Changes Path > 1.80 +172 -36 src/sys/i386/i386/userconfig.c Can I have some feedback on these fairly quickly to see if they can be squeaked into 2.2? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 20:29:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA18182 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA18174 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24056; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:28:41 -0800 (PST) To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is it really going to be /usr/bin/ee ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:06:37 +0200." <199701130206.EAA19310@smile.clinet.fi> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:28:40 -0800 Message-ID: <24052.853129720@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If the size of the editor is the problem, could the keyboard mappings > be copied from pico or emacs so that it would be in line with other > common software ? ee supports emacs-style keymaps already. Perhaps that should simply be the default? I've no great attachment to ee, it was simply the easiest-to-incorporate editor I'd found with its keymap selections on-screen at all times. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 21:32:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA20049 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA20044 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA04718 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:32:18 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA11076 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:31:47 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id BAA18527; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:11:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:11:43 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.57.11 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2921 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 12, 1997 18:35:42 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to J Wunsch: > Why do they need to be changed? If somebody says `reboot -q', it > doesn't need to go via init. The patch I made at the time is so that if one uses halt/reboot the rc.shutdown is not run. If that change is enough then there is no need to change them. Now, I think some people expect it to be run if one type "reboot". It is more a matter of how much flak we'd get :-) I don't mind having things completed in only the "shutdown" case. It was, in my memory Terry who pushed me to complete the changes to halt/reboot (and I still think it would be better that way) :-) > I think stall() is the wrong thing to do here. If the shutdown script > fails, it's best to log what can be logged, and proceed to really shut > down the system to the desired state. Probably. The patch is 2 years old and I don't remember why some things were done that way since :-) There are probably some things to reconsider. > Otherwise, considere a machine that's rebooted remotely: you _want_ to > have it rebooted, whatever might happen. If it fails to execute part > of the shutdown procedure, you can learn this from the log after it > rebooted. Having it jumping out to single-user will cause a fatal > error since you need an operator on the console afterwards. I agree. > Here's an alarm() missing, to prevent infinite hangs of the shutdown > script. Such an infinite hang should be answered with sending > rc.shutdown a terminate signal, and by syslogging it. Agreed too. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 21:42:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA20399 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA20394 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23845; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:41:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:41:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701130541.WAA23845@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Cc: dg@root.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling kernel with optimisation In-Reply-To: <199701122231.UAA22599@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> References: <199701121724.JAA25580@root.com> <199701122231.UAA22599@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joao Carlos Mendes Luis writes: > #define quoting(David Greenman) > // >I just noticed that when compiling a kernel it is done with the -O flag. > // >Would there be much speed improvement in the sytem if it was done with > // >-O3? Would this break the kernel or is the added time it takes to compile > // >not worth the benfits? > // > // It has very little effect on performance and optimizations levels > "-O" > // have traditionally been broken in gcc. > > Well, the NetBSD team has managed to compile their kernel with -O6 > and -Wall, but they had to change lots of things.. > > I don't know what do you call "little effect on performance", but > 5% gain would be enough to make me think about. 5% kernel improvement would end up being lost in the noise for 'overall' system improvement. And, the possible (probably in this case) loss in stability due to a buggy optimizer and/or x86 support is simply not worth it. Even a 15% performance increase for the kernel might not even show up. (Sometimes kernel improvements can be losses in performance due to cache busting and other assorted details.) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 21:43:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA20468 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:43:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA20458 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23833; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:39:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:39:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701130539.WAA23833@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: <199701122138.OAA26359@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701122138.OAA26359@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Truly, when I press the eject button, an "umount -f" operation should > > > occur on behalf of the FS's mounted on the drive... oh well. > > > > I'm afraid you gotta wait for SCSI-4 for this to happen. AFAIK, the > > drive doesn't start a transaction on the bus if you press the eject > > button, saying ``Terry wishes to eject my cartridge right now''. :-) > > So the system couldn't know, even at best willingness. > > > > Maybe it could if it were hooked to a PCMCIA card. 8-). If it were hooked to a PCMCIA card, the kernel would realize it *was* ejected *AFTER* you physically removed the media which means it would be tool late to update the dirty buffers. The only thing the PCIC controllers buys you is the ability to see insertion/removal request plus the ability to setup resource allocation a bit differently. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 21:49:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA20739 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA20727 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA23849; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:49:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:49:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701130549.WAA23849@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Cc: mpp@freefall.freebsd.org (Mike Pritchard), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: moused (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199701130213.VAA18145@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199701121801.KAA08186@freefall.freebsd.org> <199701130213.VAA18145@shell.monmouth.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I seem to recall seeing something about moused not working for > > all mouse types, but don't know if it applies to this guys case. > > Can anyone else help him? This is what I get for writing new man > > pages, I guess :-). > > > no luck with 2.2-ALPHA on a ATI Bus mouse either. Known problem with all but serial mice. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 21:49:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA20766 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA20725 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:49:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701130549.VAA20725@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA163684488; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:48:08 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:48:08 +1100 (EDT) Cc: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701122304.XAA08535@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Somers" at Jan 12, 97 11:04:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Brian Somers, sie said: > > > Im setting up ipfilter to work on my system and I have it installed. > > But i need help configuring the rules so that it will actually work. > > > > > > I have two cards in the FBSD box. fxp0 and vx0 > > fpx0 is 208.8.136.10 > > vx0 is 10.16.14.1 > > > > i have a client on 10.16.14.100 and i want it to be translated to > > a 208.8.136.10 address so that it can go out. > > > > how do i do this? > > > > thanks > > > > chris coleman > > You need something like > > map tun0 10.16.14.0/24 -> 208.8.136.10 > > in /etc/natrules (say), then run 'ipnat /etc/natrules' or something like > that... I got this stuff working, but ftp DATA commands never worked and it > crashed the machine a few times. Socks, cached and ppp -alias are all far > superior ! ftp should always be done with a proxy agent. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 22:17:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA21729 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA21723 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29058 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13602 invoked by uid 110); 13 Jan 1997 06:17:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19970113061700.13601.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: Is it really going to be /usr/bin/ee ? In-Reply-To: <24052.853129720@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 12, 97 08:28:40 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:17:00 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If the size of the editor is the problem, could the keyboard mappings > > be copied from pico or emacs so that it would be in line with other > > common software ? > > ee supports emacs-style keymaps already. Perhaps that should simply > be the default? > > I've no great attachment to ee, it was simply the easiest-to-incorporate > editor I'd found with its keymap selections on-screen at all times. > > Jordan > What about joe? just change the rc to place the help on the screen From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 22:32:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA22281 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA22270 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id RAA07882; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:26:31 +1100 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:26:31 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701130626.RAA07882@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dg@root.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The two options are complimentary. i.e., "async" will get you fast file >creates/deletes, but it doesn't stop the access time from being updated - it >just delays it until the inode buffer needs to be reclaimed. "noatime" doesn't Access times are never written to disk immediately when nothing else changes, except for utimes() on some file systems including ufs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 22:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA23052 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA23046 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) id XAA17894; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:50:57 -0700 (MST) From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199701130650.XAA17894@hemi.com> Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? To: eka@werty.wasantara.net.id (Eka Kelana) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:50:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1CA927E5D71@bandung.wasantara.net.id> from Eka Kelana at "Jan 11, 97 10:28:57 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eka Kelana wrote: > I wonder if there is anyone here ever experience a bug in > setsockopt(). I did this when I found the bug: [...code showing getsockopt() before and after a connect() call deleted...] > The two getsockopt() above produced different value of socket buffer > size. ... the second getsockopt() would produce 17280 bytes. ... Eka, I've observed that in FreeBSD, after a connect(), the buffer size is adjusted according to the MTU of the connecting interface inde- pendent of the socket buffer high water mark. Perhaps the intent is to automatically reserve reasonable buffer sizes based on the interface MTU. You can set the buffer sizes after the connect(), but it wont affect the advertised window size. Regards, -Ade ------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 23:08:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA23807 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from thelab.hub.org (hal-ns3-08.netcom.ca [207.181.94.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA23802 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id DAA14065; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 03:07:16 -0400 (AST) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 03:07:16 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: proff@suburbia.net cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is it really going to be /usr/bin/ee ? In-Reply-To: <19970113061700.13601.qmail@suburbia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 proff@suburbia.net wrote: > > > If the size of the editor is the problem, could the keyboard mappings > > > be copied from pico or emacs so that it would be in line with other > > > common software ? > > > > ee supports emacs-style keymaps already. Perhaps that should simply > > be the default? > > > > I've no great attachment to ee, it was simply the easiest-to-incorporate > > editor I'd found with its keymap selections on-screen at all times. > > > > Jordan > > > > What about joe? just change the rc to place the help on the screen > According to my system, ee == 57344 bytes, joe 188416...ee takes up 1/3 the space, and provides a brain-dead editor for newbies *shrug* From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 12 23:37:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA25299 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA25294 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:37:15 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA00637 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22368 invoked by uid 110); 13 Jan 1997 07:36:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19970113073648.22366.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: fpu bench marks To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:36:48 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any good fpu bench marking software? I'm trying to speed up libmsun librar. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 01:41:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA02285 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA02275 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA05476 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA01395; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:55:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:55:58 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rc.shutdown References: <16902.853042470@time.cdrom.com> <32D986DC.15FB7483@whistle.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <32D986DC.15FB7483@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Jan 12, 1997 16:50:36 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > [.. patch deleted ..] > does anyone think this is a BAD thing? See my other mail for some comments. > should the script be run going down to single user? Yes, i think so. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 02:12:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA03741 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA03733 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA28443; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701131010.CAA28443@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Ade Barkah cc: eka@werty.wasantara.net.id (Eka Kelana), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:50:55 MST." <199701130650.XAA17894@hemi.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I've observed that in FreeBSD, after a connect(), the buffer size >is adjusted according to the MTU of the connecting interface inde- >pendent of the socket buffer high water mark. Perhaps the intent >is to automatically reserve reasonable buffer sizes based on the >interface MTU. This is actually a bug that Garrett has on his whiteboard... -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 02:21:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA04146 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA04135 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id VAA14907; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:17:04 +1100 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:17:04 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701131017.VAA14907@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: unused variable in su Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Still, it's fairly obfuscated code. It could be better worded: > >IMHO, it is fine (and yes, it should be strncpy()). Using the return It should be strdup(). Using strncpy() or snprintf() to handle buffer overflows by truncating the string is sloppy. >> Btw., shouldn't it better be a strncpy() anyway? Sure, /etc/shells is >> at the mercy of the sysadmin, but he isn't unfailable. > >It is /etc/master.passwd in this case, but what you say is still true. >In a setuid binary no less, but fortunately no "return" anywhere in >main(). It may be possible to clear the variable `ruid' by overwriting the first byte of it with the terminating null... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 02:34:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA04644 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA04638; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00176; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:34:11 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0vjjhY-00020KC; Mon, 13 Jan 97 11:33 MET Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA287901470; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:31:10 +0100 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199701131031.AA287901470@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Success with TORAY PD PhaseChange rewritable To: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:31:10 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, especially od authors :) The PD drive works both as a CD and OD device with 2.1.5-R after some hacking the kernel to use NEW_SCSICONF. The device is properly recognized in both modi (it was already in the quirk list; someone must have had it :) and allows itself to be fdisked, disklabeled and newfsed. It is presently being used as a backup media. I can post my pd640 disktab entry if anyone is interested. /Marino From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 02:40:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA05020 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA04936 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:39:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id LAA18524; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:33:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA04568; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:22:40 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970113112240.00a38800@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:22:41 +0100 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:23 PM 1/12/97 +0100, J Wunsch wrote: >As Terry Lambert wrote: > >> I think erroring out to "okshells" on the malloc failure is a bit >> bogus... > >malloc errors are bogus, too. :) The hell will break afterwards >anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it returns `okshells' or >something else. Race condition and possibly (very minor) security problem - I would have it print "No memory" and exit(EXIT_FAILURE); No security hole too small etc... Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 02:45:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA05280 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA05152 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id LAA18592; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:38:56 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id LAA04606; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:28:06 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970113112805.00a57e10@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:28:06 +0100 To: Michael Smith From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/i386 userconfig.c Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:50 PM 1/13/97 +1030, Michael Smith wrote: [misc changes to userconfig] >Can I have some feedback on these fairly quickly to see if they can >be squeaked into 2.2? This might be difficult to squeak in, but how about a drop-back to linemode? That you want to do SOMETHING in linemode because it can't be done in the visual editor don't mean that you want to do _everything_. Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 06:54:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA15487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA15482 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:54:05 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail13.digital.com (8.7.5/UNX 1.5/1.0/WV) id JAA30074; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:45:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA20106; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:45:02 +0100 Message-Id: <9701131445.AA20106@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message from Amancio Hasty of Thu, 09 Jan 97 01:17:48 PST. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 15:45:02 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hasty@rah.star-gate.com writes: > Now someone ought to really concentrate on providing a driver for > a popular ISDN card here in the US -- specially, if the driver / card > can support, data on one channel, voice/fax on the other or data on both > channels -- in other words flexible for the SOHO market. > _Is_ there such a thing as a popular ISDN card in the US ? I had the impression that people in the US prefer to use ISDN "modems". --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 07:04:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA15875 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA15859 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA54804; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:03:21 +0200 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:07:42 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? In-Reply-To: <199701122134.WAA09381@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. [...] > Or? Am I completely off line here? No you aren't. I was thinking on it for years... but not enough hacking skills to do it actually. Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 07:31:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA17254 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from home.winc.com (root@home.winc.com [204.178.182.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA17246 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.aristar.com (slip125.winc.com [204.178.182.125]) by home.winc.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA09769; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:31:32 -0500 Message-ID: <32DA5547.446B9B3D@aristar.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:31:20 -0500 From: "Matthew A. Gessner" Organization: Aristar, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers Subject: 2.1.5 router/gateway Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, all, I have a machine that is connected to our Ethernet LAN that I would like to use as a machine to route packets to and from the internet via a ppp connection using user-level ppp. I have 2.1.5 but since lynx isn't installed on it, it's kind of hard to get the information. I'd appreciate some help on how I need to set this up from scratch. My IP addresses would be ed1: 10.0.0.4 tun0: 204.178.182.130 (going to change, though) What options do I need to enable? BTW, gated doesn't install properly from the 2.1.5 CD-ROM, for reasons I don't know, other than the fact that there's been LOTS of problems with that one. I'm also going to have other network devices (I have a few serial devices with ppp drivers that I'm using elsewhere via tun1/tun2 to allow me to connect) and I need to be able to route packets (like DNS etc) from those connections to my main internet connection via tun0. Can someone please help or point me to some good explanations? The book that comes with 2.1.5 doesn't help too much in this respect. TIA -- Matthew Gessner, Computer Scientist, Aristar, Inc. 302 N. Cleveland-Massillon Rd. Akron, OH 44333 Voice (330) 668-2267, Fax (330) 668-2961 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 07:35:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA17576 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA17568 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) id JAA18697; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:35:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:35:07 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199701131535.JAA18697@plains.nodak.edu> To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us Subject: Re: IPFILTER Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > but ftp DATA commands never worked and it > crashed the machine a few times. Socks, cached and ppp -alias are all far > superior ! a ftp proxy (such as one that comes with the FWTK) is needed. Also do not unload the ip-filter lkm if there is an active network address translation; it will panic the machine. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 07:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA18238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA18233 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA01259; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:47:29 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:47:29 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <3.0.32.19970112145449.009da940@dimaga.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: ; from J Wunsch on Jan 12, 1997 18:38:21 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As David Nugent wrote: > > FWIW, rman (Rossetta man) can do this pretty well (convert man > > pages to html amongst other things). > > Well, i think we've got a special case here. Plain ol' man pages > should be converted by such a tool, which i think involves a lot > of guessing. Indeed it does. However, it does an excellent job of it, picking up embedded cross-references. General structure is good too. > -mdoc pages should better be converted from the source. No argument at all from me. The only difference is that this requires someone to write code. :-) Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 08:05:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA18930 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA18924 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davidn@localhost) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA01280; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:04:59 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:04:58 +1100 From: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: unused variable in su References: <199701131017.VAA14907@godzilla.zeta.org.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701131017.VAA14907@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Jan 13, 1997 21:17:04 +1100 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >> Still, it's fairly obfuscated code. It could be better worded: > > > >IMHO, it is fine (and yes, it should be strncpy()). Using the return > > It should be strdup(). Using strncpy() or snprintf() to handle buffer > overflows by truncating the string is sloppy. No, it is defensive programming, pure and simple. The buffer already IS a reasonable size - in fact, it is the maximum legal path size. If the string copied into it is too long, then it is going to get rejected by the execvp() anyway - only the error number changes - EEXIST vs. ENAMETOOLONG. Toss a coin, either approach is reasonable. There is an advantage the snprintf() case, at least you can detect if the formatted string would have overflowed. Although it seems that the snprintf() return value is not often (enough) checked. IMHO, it should be, perhaps even via syslog(), if early notification of possible attacks is useful. I would agree that using arbitrarily undersized buffers is sloppy, but that is not the case here. Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 09:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25184 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA25132 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA27954; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:29:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701131729.KAA27954@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:29:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "David Nugent" at Jan 13, 97 11:08:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Third party commercial software needs an interface for inserting > > tasks into the startup/shutdown mechanism such that it's possible > > for the tasks to be added/removed without post-processing rc files, > > since if only one vendor out of 200 vendors screws this up, your > > system is screwed entirely. > > Sure, I understand the need. But symlinks just obfuscate the entire > process. > > There is no *logical* difference between the scheme I've suggested > and what many sysv's use. Only the implementation differs in that > the directory becomes the list - a much more difficult way to > manage it. > > A vendor who "screws this up" has no business being a vendor at all. Or he has created his product for SVR4, and we are only able to use it because we have an ABI compatability mode. The problem is that the SVR4 ABI includes more than simply being able to run the binaries. For full IBCS2, it also includes an rc.d structure for them to install scripts in, as well as SVR4 package management tools to do the installation (have you tried to install SVR3 Lotus 1-2-3 without SVR3/SVR4 install tools lately?). There is some measure of expedience which must be applied to decisions involving ABI compatability... this is one of them. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 09:52:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25380 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA25375 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id LAA09956; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:52:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970113175320.0066a1bc@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:53:20 -0600 To: dg@root.com From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:10 13-01-97 -0800, David Greenman wrote: > This is actually a bug that Garrett has on his whiteboard... > >-DG > >David Greenman >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project Dave (and others); One of the things I've been very seriously considering now that my FreeBSD system is coming up is completing work on my programming book (thanks to some messages with Greg Lehey). Anyway, a major portion of this book concerns the different ipc functions -- sockets, shared memory, semaphores, etc. I have refined some classes over the past several years which I was going to highlight. I figured I would complete the refining process on my FreeBSD box and prepare them for publication here. Well, this thread is making me somewhat nervous. Being really new to the whole FreeBSD world, I don't know where, or how, to check this 'whiteboard.' Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? Who are the people working on them? What kind of help do they need? Can I try to abuse some of the fixes for them? Needless to say, if I'm going to write my book and use FreeBSD as the base os for my source, I have a somewhat vested interest in ensuring the os works. And more than that, ensure it is compatible with the other flavors of unix. Thanks for any pointers/help you can pass along... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:13:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA26841 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA26833 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA27973; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:35:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701131735.KAA27973@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:35:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701130015.KAA13172@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 13, 97 10:45:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, Terry is lying. Those boot messages come from a Jaz with no disk > inserted. Here's a Jaz with a disk in : Actually, J"org and I have collapsed two message threads into a single thread, seperated only by context. We did the same thing with the su/getusershell threads, too. The dmesg I gave was to complain about the driver attempting geometry recognition without media inserted. This is totally seperate from the other context of "it takes me a unnaceptably (to me) long time to actually umount when I umount immediately following the last close in a series of large writes". > > I'm afraid you gotta wait for SCSI-4 for this to happen. AFAIK, the > > drive doesn't start a transaction on the bus if you press the eject > > button, saying ``Terry wishes to eject my cartridge right now''. :-) > > So the system couldn't know, even at best willingness. > > Correct; if the drive is mounted, it will have been locked. There's no > way for a locked drive to singal its desire to be unlocked. How about "power cycling rapidly until someone notices the noise"? 8-) 8-). There's ways to do it; there's probably just no *good* way... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:23:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27412 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA27403; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA29571; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:21:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701131821.KAA29571@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Lee Crites cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, wollman@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:53:20 CST." <1.5.4.32.19970113175320.0066a1bc@jump.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:21:33 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Well, this thread is making me somewhat nervous. Being really new to the >whole FreeBSD world, I don't know where, or how, to check this 'whiteboard.' >Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? Who are the >people working on them? What kind of help do they need? Can I try to abuse >some of the fixes for them? Needless to say, if I'm going to write my book >and use FreeBSD as the base os for my source, I have a somewhat vested >interest in ensuring the os works. And more than that, ensure it is >compatible with the other flavors of unix. > >Thanks for any pointers/help you can pass along... All operating systems have bugs. The setsockopt for SO_RCVBUF/SO_SNDBUF was broken (I think) when Path MTU Discovery was implemented about a year ago. It will be fixed - hopefully soon, but you should just document how it is supposed to work and forget about the bugs. As for access to people's whiteboards, well, mine is hanging on my wall and changes all the time. I don't have an electronic version (and don't intend to create one). It currently has things on it such as "telnetd ptcout hang" and "ix driver panic", but most of the items only mean something to me. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:28:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27689 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA27679 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA27986; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701131740.KAA27986@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: DEVFS permissions &c. To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au, bde@zeta.org.au, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <32D98774.59E2B600@whistle.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 12, 97 04:53:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I mean, shouldn't pty's be handled by: > > > [description of cloning devices deleted] > > yes, but it could be even simpler.. > > make the server side appear when you open and are assigned a > client side pty. OK, I don't understand this... I think you want the master open before the slave (doesn't closing the master EOF the slave, potentially SIGHUP'ing the process group if -clocal?). Why do you want an FS object, rather than a post-open ioctl, to derive the slave node? I don't need a namespace entry in the devfs to provide a means of creating an fd reference to the slave vnode ...my example used an ioctl() on the master to get there. > julian > (patches accepted) Let's explore what a "correct" implementation should look like, first, and generate patches after that. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:29:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27746 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA27740 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA18104; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:29:31 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:29:31 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9701131829.AA18104@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: dg@root.com Cc: Lee Crites , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? In-Reply-To: <199701131821.KAA29571@root.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970113175320.0066a1bc@jump.net> <199701131821.KAA29571@root.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > All operating systems have bugs. The setsockopt for SO_RCVBUF/SO_SNDBUF > was broken (I think) when Path MTU Discovery was implemented about a year > ago. It will be fixed - hopefully soon, but you should just document how > it is supposed to work and forget about the bugs. The bug, to be precise, is that the user can specify any buffer size they want, but that size gets thrown out when some of the other parts of the TCP control block are computed. > As for access to people's whiteboards, well, mine is hanging on my wall and > changes all the time. I don't have an electronic version (and don't intend to > create one). It currently has things on it such as "telnetd ptcout hang" and > "ix driver panic", but most of the items only mean something to me. Same here. That particular whiteboard entry is labeled ``M. Dillon spipe/mss'', which is actually for a slightly different problem, which I'm not certain I agree is entirely a bug, but which is closely related to this one and began manifesting itself at about the same time. Usually the stuff on my whiteboard has little to do with what I'm actually working on right now, and more to do with longer-term concerns that I think I might forget if I don't write them down. The other ``public'' items up there right now are ``NFS packet stealing'' and ``KERNEL -> _KERNEL''. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:31:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27852 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA27844 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA17167; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:30:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:30:53 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9701131830.AA17167@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Lee Crites Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? In-Reply-To: <199701131821.KAA29571@root.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19970113175320.0066a1bc@jump.net> <199701131821.KAA29571@root.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Well, this thread is making me somewhat nervous. Being really new to the >> whole FreeBSD world, I don't know where, or how, to check this 'whiteboard.' >> Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? A lot of this information, by the way, is available in the GNATS database. There is a WWW interface whose URL I can't remember off-hand. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 10:48:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28571 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA28556 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA00591; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:32:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:32:29 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca cc: eivind@dimaga.com, FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! In-Reply-To: <199701121544.KAA18539@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca wrote: > In Email, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > I'm in favour. I haven't yet seen a good browser for info, and it is pain > > to get the ones that exist to even open the files. While we're at it, it > > would even be nice to have the man-pages as HTML - not as a replacement > > format, but as an alternative. > > Rewrite them all in docbook, and you'd probably be just about set. I've > seen a docbook->man thingy somewhere and I'm sure docbook->html exists, > too. The docbook->html exists in freebsd-current actually. :) TeXinfo->docbook + mdoc->docbook and the system is complete. Well, I still don't have docbook->groff, but that is just a matter of when, not if. For man pages, docbook to HTML is faster than mdoc to ascii. Docbook to ascii or postscript will be slower since it goes through groff, plus docbook to groff conversion. For our linuxdoc legacy documents (handful of tutorials, FAQ and handbook), my linuxdoc->docbook converter is working quite well considering the bogosities of the linuxdoc DTD and the subsequent bogous markup practices found in the handbook/FAQ and the many linuxdoc HOWTO's I've been testing it on. It isn't 100% automatic--some documents need manual tweaks before conversion, and all need work after to take full advantage of the much richer docbook DTD. If we are talking about an alternate format from which other formats can be derived, HTML is ***not*** appropriate. Docbook was designed specifically for software documentation and it works quite well in my experience. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 11:05:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA29193 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bb.cc.wa.us ([208.8.136.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA29188 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chris@localhost) by mail.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.8.3) id LAA00628; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:02:04 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:02:04 +0000 () From: Chris Coleman To: Mark Tinguely cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IPFILTER In-Reply-To: <199701131535.JAA18697@plains.nodak.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, i have a machine on 10.16.14.10 in the FBSD box i have two network cards. fxp0 inet 208.8.136.10 fxp1 inet 10.16.14.1 i have ipfilter loaded in the kernel. im using /etc/natrules map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 208.8.136.13/24 portmap tcp/udp 1025:65000 map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 208.8.136.13/24 when i ping 10.16.14.1 i get nothing. but after i ping it unsuccesfully i try an ipnat -sl i get: mapped in 0 out 72 added 9 expired 0 inuse 9 map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 -> 208.8.136.13/32 portmap tcp/udp 1025:65000 map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 -> 208.8.136.13/255.255.255.0 10.16.14.1 0 <- -> 208.8.136.14 0 634 2 4006 [0.0.0.0 0] So something is working but i dont know what to do. my client can connect to the gateway, but nothing beyond. What am i doing wrong. Thanks In Advance From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 11:51:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA01477 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA01455 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) id NAA22684; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:51:27 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:51:27 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199701131951.NAA22684@plains.nodak.edu> To: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us Subject: Re: IPFILTER Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > in the FBSD box i have two network cards. > fxp0 inet 208.8.136.10 > fxp1 inet 10.16.14.1 > > when i ping 10.16.14.1 i get nothing. ping (and traceroute) uses ICMP not IP. ICMP is not rewritten in NAT rules. get the Stevens book to see an example of UDP ping if you wish to use ping. Also, to get a successful remapping for IP application, be sure that you turned on the IP forwarding on the NAT host (ie: sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 ). --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 12:19:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA02993 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA02987 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA28137; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:06:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132006.NAA28137@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Can you install and run FreeBSD on a Iomega Jaz cartridge? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:06:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Gregory_D_Moncreaff@ccmail.ed.ray.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701130124.LAA13721@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 13, 97 11:54:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > This is where you may have problems; many BIOSsen don't consider the > > > Jaz to be a 'bootable' device, because it reports itself as being a > > > removable. > > > > It would have to be an old SCSI controller for this... I have an NCR > > and an AHA1742 that both work... > > I've tried mine on an NCR, Bustek BT542 and Ultrastor 34f, and none of > them will boot from it, presumably because it says it's a removable. > > > I believe you can rejumper it so it does not report itself this way. I think you are insane. 8-). I use the "turbo" switch on my front panel to swap drive ID's between my internal DEC disk and my JAZ drive (0/2, 2/0) (the idea of doing this came from Mike Mayberry). I boot Solaris, NetBSD, and OpenBSD off of the JAZ drive with the "turbo" button "on". I use a portable (SCSI) JAZ drive for my HP300 (actually, 425) 68040 work. I boot the HP from the drive, no problems. I also boot my DEC Alpha from the JAZ drive; the DEC Alpha has an NCR810 on the motherboard. For the HP and the Alpha, the boot code is very different; for one thing, it's not Intel code. But the boot from the JAZ on the Intel box (my Dual P90 box) works fine for the NCR 810 there. Maybe you need to update your flash BIOS image to a more recent version? Or you are using an NCR 815/825 with onboard BIOS? My NCR BIOS is on my ASUS motherboard... I'd have to reboot to see the exact rev. (I will if you need it... let me know for sure). > Do you believe in fairies too? The Jaz is designed for musicians; all > of the controls are hard-to-get at, and do very little, in order to > reduce their support load. Your options are : SCSI ID, termination > off/auto/on. Heh... I don't think, after looking at a Kawai Km, which expects it's SCSI device to not return until the low level format is complete, that *any* IOmega drive is built for musicians. A number of Yahama boxes expect the same thing from their SCSI devices as well, and since the Bernoulli days, IOmega drives have detached following format. > You might be able to change more if you pull it apart; I still have > warranty-related delusions about mine so I'm not going to do that 8) Heh. There are half-size jumpers on the bottom of the internal version of the drive... you should have bought your own shoebox and an internal instead of buying an external... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 12:25:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA03294 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA03289 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA75044; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:25:38 GMT Message-Id: <199701132025.UAA75044@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net> Received: from slip166-72-229-229.va.us.ibm.net(166.72.229.229) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smaOgQCrx; Mon Jan 13 20:25:33 1997 Reply-To: From: "Steve Sims" To: "Matthew A. Gessner" , "hackers" Subject: Re: 2.1.5 router/gateway Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:25:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You're in luck - I've prepared a (FAQ? Netguide? User's Manual?) that explains *exactly* how to do this. Are you interested in proofing it and/or providing f[r]eedback? ...sjs... ---------- > From: Matthew A. Gessner > To: hackers > Subject: 2.1.5 router/gateway > Date: Monday, January 13, 1997 10:31 AM > > Hello, all, > > I have a machine that is connected to our Ethernet LAN that I would > like to use as a machine to route packets to and from the internet via a > ppp connection using user-level ppp. I have 2.1.5 but since lynx isn't > installed on it, it's kind of hard to get the information. > > I'd appreciate some help on how I need to set this up from scratch. > > My IP addresses would be > > ed1: 10.0.0.4 > tun0: 204.178.182.130 (going to change, though) > > What options do I need to enable? BTW, gated doesn't install properly > from the 2.1.5 CD-ROM, for reasons I don't know, other than the fact > that there's been LOTS of problems with that one. > > I'm also going to have other network devices (I have a few serial > devices with ppp drivers that I'm using elsewhere via tun1/tun2 to allow > me to connect) and I need to be able to route packets (like DNS etc) > from those connections to my main internet connection via tun0. > > Can someone please help or point me to some good explanations? The > book that comes with 2.1.5 doesn't help too much in this respect. > > TIA > -- > Matthew Gessner, Computer Scientist, > Aristar, Inc. > 302 N. Cleveland-Massillon Rd. > Akron, OH 44333 > Voice (330) 668-2267, Fax (330) 668-2961 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA05634 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA05600 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA28218; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:59:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132059.NAA28218@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:59:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: dg@root.com, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu In-Reply-To: <199701130626.RAA07882@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 13, 97 05:26:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The two options are complimentary. i.e., "async" will get you fast file > >creates/deletes, but it doesn't stop the access time from being updated - it > >just delays it until the inode buffer needs to be reclaimed. "noatime" doesn't > > Access times are never written to disk immediately when nothing else changes, > except for utimes() on some file systems including ufs. "Shall be marked for update". The question for the rest of it is "does 'shall be updated' mean 'shall be written to disk'"? ...most FS designers I've talked to say "no". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:18:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA06010 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA05991 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26992; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:14:41 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:14:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701132114.OAA26992@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: <199701132058.NAA28205@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199701130539.WAA23833@rocky.mt.sri.com> <199701132058.NAA28205@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > > > > > > > Maybe it could if it were hooked to a PCMCIA card. 8-). > > > > If it were hooked to a PCMCIA card, the kernel would realize it *was* > > ejected *AFTER* you physically removed the media which means it would be > > tool late to update the dirty buffers. The only thing the PCIC > > controllers buys you is the ability to see insertion/removal request > > plus the ability to setup resource allocation a bit differently. > > It can also scream "Put the card back! Put the card back!". Not without an incredible amount of kludges to *every* device driver. Currently, the PCCARD code knows *nothing* about the individual device drivers, and shouldn't. Adding intrinsic device driver knowledge to the generic support code is something that I'll fight against. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:22:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA06163 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA06158 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:22:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA28192; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:56:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132056.NAA28192@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, dg@root.com, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701130130.MAA13813@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 13, 97 12:00:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have had delays on the order of a minute when umounting my JAZ disk. > > Sounds like you have a bug in your FS patches then. I beat the living > crap out of mine on a regular basis (eg. 'make build' for NetBSD NFS > clients, FreeBSD CVS repository, etc.), and 'umount' invariably gives > a quick squitter and then the drive is ready to eject. Sorry, but my patches aren't in this particular kernel... > Huh? How do "other BSD's" handle reading the media size from a drive > that handles variable size media? I think you're dreaming again. They don't attempt to read it until they verify that media is present. > > In any case, I have to wait a long time. NetBSD and OpenBSD running > > on the same hardware do not have the same delay. > > ... probably because you're not running with your hacked kernel on them. Actually, the OpenBSD code *does* have my patches appied to it... OpenBSD uses a different VM. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:25:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA06429 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA06421 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA28205; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132058.NAA28205@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:13 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701130539.WAA23833@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 12, 97 10:39:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > Maybe it could if it were hooked to a PCMCIA card. 8-). > > If it were hooked to a PCMCIA card, the kernel would realize it *was* > ejected *AFTER* you physically removed the media which means it would be > tool late to update the dirty buffers. The only thing the PCIC > controllers buys you is the ability to see insertion/removal request > plus the ability to setup resource allocation a bit differently. It can also scream "Put the card back! Put the card back!". Then it can say "OK, *now* you can remove the card!". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:25:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA06477 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA06418 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA19770 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:24:55 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA02908; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:20:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:20:45 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701130015.KAA13172@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701130015.KAA13172@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Jan 13, 1997 10:45:46 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > lovely /kernel: sd6(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > lovely /kernel: sd6 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > lovely /kernel: 1021MB (2091050 512 byte sectors) > > And the error is "I refuse to give you mode page 4", which is the > "rigid disk geometry page", ie. the page where most disk lie outrageously > about their supposed c/h/s geometry. That is, the ``invalid field'' is the page number? You could easily verify this by scsi -v -f /dev/rsd1.ctl -m 4 If this also fails with an Invalid field in CDB, that's the culprit. Btw., that's the information my sd0 presents (zero fields omitted): Number of Cylinders: 4177 Number of Heads: 8 Medium Rotation Rate: 5410 This even sounds reasonable. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:34:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA07347 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from jump.net (serv1-2.jump.net [204.238.120.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA07338 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from benjamin.adonai.com by jump.net (8.8.4/BERK-6.8.11) id PAA25317; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:34:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970113213527.00685734@jump.net> X-Sender: adonai@jump.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:35:27 -0600 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Lee Crites Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? Cc: dg@root.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While I appreciate what David Greenman and Garrett Wollman said, I'm afraid something got missed in the translation. Perhaps I can clarify... I originally said: >Well, this thread is making me somewhat nervous. Being really new to the >whole FreeBSD world, I don't know where, or how, to check this 'whiteboard.' I didn't anticipate some graphical representation or web viewer showing the actual contents of the physical whiteboards on the wall -- if indeed there actually was such a physical item in existance. So as David said... > As for access to people's whiteboards, well, mine is hanging on my wall and >changes all the time. I don't have an electronic version (and don't intend to >create one). It currently has things on it such as "telnetd ptcout hang" and >"ix driver panic", but most of the items only mean something to me. I can understand why you might not want an electronic version of your physical whiteboard put on the internet. After all, who cares about the phone numbers you might have scribbled on the bottom corner or reminders of an upcoming anniversary/birthday (if there are any)? And, back to my original... >Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? Who are the >people working on them? What kind of help do they need? Can I try to abuse >some of the fixes for them? Needless to say, if I'm going to write my book >and use FreeBSD as the base os for my source, I have a somewhat vested >interest in ensuring the os works. And more than that, ensure it is >compatible with the other flavors of unix. This is what I was looking for. Details concerning the contents of a physical item on your wall was not. (the hint could have come when I put whiteboard in quotes) So now, back to my originally stated requests: * Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? * Who are the people working on them? * What kind of help do they need? * Can I try to abuse some of the fixes? And, some further, while I admit only implied, requests: * Is there a cental point with a list of the currently identified bugs? * How does somone with a vested interest in them get to that list? * How can someone like me help out? * Are there compatibility tests with other os's? If so, how can I see the results? If not, why not? Are you waiting for someone to make it? If it was made, would the results be appreciated or scorned? There are more, but I think that give a clearer picture of where I wanted this discussion to go... Lee From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:34:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA07369 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from magigimmix.xs4all.nl (magigimmix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA07299 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from asterix.xs4all.nl (asterix.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.11]) by magigimmix.xs4all.nl (8.7.6/XS4ALL) with ESMTP id WAA16965 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:34:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from plm.xs4all.nl (uucp@localhost) by asterix.xs4all.nl (8.7.5/8.7.2) with UUCP id WAA29996 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:28:47 +0100 (MET) Received: (from plm@localhost) by plm.xs4all.nl (8.8.2/8.7.3) id TAA27360; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:27:11 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new texinfo is busted! References: <87n2udlbhy.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> From: Peter Mutsaers Date: 13 Jan 1997 19:27:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:54:50 +0100 Message-ID: <877mlhbfcx.fsf@localhost.xs4all.nl> Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Get me right, my emacs runs all day and night, its uptime is >> usually identical to the system uptime. Nevertheless, there >> are people who don't prefer it as their editor of choice, and >> the attitude ``use it to read the info files or die'' would >> just cause me to say: to the hell with all the info files. >> Make them HTML or man pages. (We already sorta rely on HTML, >> see the FAQ and the handbook.) There are ways to convert info to html. But please also retain the real info files. I happen to like them. They are better structured than HTML (up, down, next, previous node). -- Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | Trust is a good quality plm@xs4all.nl | the Netherlands | for other people to have From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:43:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA07906 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA07881 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:43:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132143.NAA07881@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA062301735; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:42:15 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:42:15 +1100 (EDT) Cc: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701131951.NAA22684@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Jan 13, 97 01:51:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Mark Tinguely, sie said: > > > in the FBSD box i have two network cards. > > fxp0 inet 208.8.136.10 > > fxp1 inet 10.16.14.1 > > > > > when i ping 10.16.14.1 i get nothing. > > ping (and traceroute) uses ICMP not IP. ICMP is not rewritten in NAT rules. > get the Stevens book to see an example of UDP ping if you wish to use ping. ICMP is now (but it doesn't rewrite the headers in error packets). > Also, to get a successful remapping for IP application, be sure that you > turned on the IP forwarding on the NAT host (ie: > > sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 > > ). even better, for things like ftp which have address data in the TCP stream, use a proxy. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:46:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08017 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA08008 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00301 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:45:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132145.NAA00301@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 to: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:45:02 +0100." <9701131445.AA20106@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:45:00 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think Intel makes an ISDN Card which is popular and also they OEM it. Amancio >From The Desk Of garyj@frt.dec.com : > > hasty@rah.star-gate.com writes: > > Now someone ought to really concentrate on providing a driver for > > a popular ISDN card here in the US -- specially, if the driver / card > > can support, data on one channel, voice/fax on the other or data on both > > channels -- in other words flexible for the SOHO market. > > > > _Is_ there such a thing as a popular ISDN card in the US ? I had the > impression that people in the US prefer to use ISDN "modems". > > --- > Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com > (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de > (play) gj@freebsd.org > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:48:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08206 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bb.cc.wa.us ([208.8.136.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA08201 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chris@localhost) by mail.bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.3/8.8.3) id NAA01046; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:44:47 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:44:47 +0000 () From: Chris Coleman To: Darren Reed cc: Mark Tinguely , brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IPFILTER In-Reply-To: <199701131339.NAA01025@mail.bb.cc.wa.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > in the FBSD box i have two network cards. > > > fxp0 inet 208.8.136.10 > > > fxp1 inet 10.16.14.1 > > > > > ICMP is now (but it doesn't rewrite the headers in error packets). > > > Also, to get a successful remapping for IP application, be sure that you > > turned on the IP forwarding on the NAT host (ie: > > > > sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 > > > > ). Ok, I added the sysctl and it still doesn't work. Do i have to run GATED? Do i have to set up IFCONFIG special? Do i need ARP_PROXYALL in the kernel? Im using telnet to test this. Im telnetting from the client on 10.16.14.10 to a host 208.8.136.4 i know im close to getting this. i really appreciate the help. > > even better, for things like ftp which have address data in the TCP stream, > use a proxy. > > Darren > Thanks Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:50:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08347 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA08325 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:50:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132150.NAA08325@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA064172159; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:49:19 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:49:19 +1100 (EDT) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701131535.JAA18697@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Jan 13, 97 09:35:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Mark Tinguely, sie said: > > > but ftp DATA commands never worked and it > > crashed the machine a few times. Socks, cached and ppp -alias are all far > > superior ! > > a ftp proxy (such as one that comes with the FWTK) is needed. Also do not > unload the ip-filter lkm if there is an active network address translation; > it will panic the machine. Fixed that bug, unless you mean unloading it while wunning ipmon (which I hear will cause a panic but that's also an OS issue). Let me explain that a bit more. Under SunOS4 if I "modload if_ipl.o" then run "ipmon", background it. "modunload -i ", go back to "ipmon" and ^C that, SunOS4 panics. Under FreeBSD 2.1.5, that doesn't happen, but under newer versions of FreeBSD I am told it does. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:50:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08352 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08335 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA28246; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132110.OAA28246@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Stesin" at Jan 13, 97 08:07:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. > > [...] > > > Or? Am I completely off line here? > > No you aren't. I was thinking on it for years... but > not enough hacking skills to do it actually. Cyclic file types imply record orientation. They do this because you want to remove an atomic record each time from the front of the file in order to add your record to the end of the file. For wtmp style logs, the records are not variable length, so you are pretty much OK. For console logs and message logs, however, you are pretty much screwed. One problem is that the underlying storage is block instead of record oriented anyway. On a VMS system, you'd write a new record and modify an index; on a UNIX system, you would need to be able to instert blocks at the end of the block list (which you can do) and to collapse the block list up (which you can't do, currently). In addition, you would need to be able to have the first block of the file be a right-associative (fill-to-end) instead of a standard left associative (fill-from-start-to-n-bytes) frag. The associativity is important to save copies, and since the truncate from front for the cyclic behavior would result in frags which shrink over time instead of frags which grow over time. All of this is possible, it's just not very pretty, and it doesn't fit in very well with the allocation of indirect blocks... you would need to (effectively) push all pointers up through the small number of direct blocks at the front of the file, as you cycled data through. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:52:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08547 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA08542 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA24898 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20490 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:50:47 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA03051; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:24:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:24:15 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701121947.MAA26105@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199701130130.MAA13813@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701130130.MAA13813@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Jan 13, 1997 12:00:40 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > I have had delays on the order of a minute when umounting my JAZ disk. > > Sounds like you have a bug in your FS patches then. I beat the living (Ah, i never even thought of Terry running a brok^H^H^H^Hhacked kernel, you're probably right here!) But i can also confirm that this is identical to my experience, the drive is ready to eject (or spindown) as soon as umount completed. > Actually, it has to do with the people who did the SCSI firmware saying > "modepage 4? On a ZBR drive? You've got to be kidding". And getting > away with it. Well, see my other posting. You can get useable data also on a ZBR drive. The number of sectors per track is not part of page 4, and i doubt ZBR drives will dynamically change their number of heads, or add more cylinders as they are needed. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:54:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08618 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08599 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20526 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:52:54 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA03067; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:25:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:25:42 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701130130.MAA13813@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199701132056.NAA28192@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701132056.NAA28192@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Jan 13, 1997 13:56:00 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > Huh? How do "other BSD's" handle reading the media size from a drive > > that handles variable size media? I think you're dreaming again. > > They don't attempt to read it until they verify that media is present. Btw., FreeBSD also re-reads the geometry later if needed. The number presented at boot is only for convenience there. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08679 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08673 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20590 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:55:43 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA03076; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:27:36 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:27:35 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: number of lines in a file, given its size References: <3.0.32.19970113112240.00a38800@dimaga.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970113112240.00a38800@dimaga.com>; from Eivind Eklund on Jan 13, 1997 11:22:41 +0100 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Eivind Eklund wrote: > >malloc errors are bogus, too. :) The hell will break afterwards > >anyway, so it doesn't matter whether it returns `okshells' or > >something else. > > Race condition and possibly (very minor) security problem - I would have it > print "No memory" and exit(EXIT_FAILURE); Hmm. I think calling abort() is better. It gets syslogged. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:57:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08799 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08777 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA19128; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:56:29 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:56:29 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9701132156.AA19128@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Lee Crites Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dg@root.com Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970113213527.00685734@jump.net> References: <1.5.4.32.19970113213527.00685734@jump.net> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > So now, back to my originally stated requests: > * Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? No. Bruce Evans probably has one, but you win a prize if it's anything you actually care about and can understand it in less than ten minutes. Terry Lambert probably has one, but all Terry's bugs can be boiled down to ``I want STREAMS'' so so that's probably not what you're looking for either. > * Who are the people working on them? Generally the people who make the lists, although the particular meaning of ``working'' in this context is debatable. > * What kind of help do they need? Someone else to do the work and submit a patch for review. Lots of money and free time would be helpful, as would a life for some of us, but we don't expect that you can provide that sort of help. > * Can I try to abuse some of the fixes? If you can find them first, sure. Most of the people don't hoard their fixes; if there is a bug, and we have the right fix and it works, then we fix it. > And, some further, while I admit only implied, requests: > * Is there a cental point with a list of the currently identified bugs? There is the GNATS database. See the Web page. Note that it only contains bugs which people bother to file a problem report on. > * How does somone with a vested interest in them get to that list? See the Web page. > * How can someone like me help out? Use the Source. Come up with a solution. Send a patch. If you can't do any of these, at least document the nature of the bug and send a PR if there isn't already one. > * Are there compatibility tests with other os's? No. We define the standard of compatibility. (Only half a smiley.) > If not, why not? Are you waiting for someone to make it? If it > was made, would the results be appreciated or scorned? That would depend on whether being compatible with something else represented an advance or a reversion. We generally have a ranking something like this: 1) Standards (POSIX, ISO C, X/Open when it makes sense, FIPS 151-2, IETF) 2) Other *BSD flavors (NetBSD, OpenBSD, BSD/OS) 3) ``Traditional BSD behavior'' 4) ``Traditional SysV behavior'' 5) ``Traditional SunOS behavior'' Whether (4) or (5) count more or less than the author's own opinion depends on who is doing the writing. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:58:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08882 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08852 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20616 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:57:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA03097; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:34:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:34:22 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IPFILTER References: <199701131951.NAA22684@plains.nodak.edu> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701131951.NAA22684@plains.nodak.edu>; from Mark Tinguely on Jan 13, 1997 13:51:27 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Tinguely wrote: > ping (and traceroute) uses ICMP not IP. I thought ICMP is also an IP protocol? > ICMP is not rewritten in NAT rules. But that's of course independant. > get the Stevens book to see an example of UDP ping if you wish to > use ping. Well, i hope it's not using UDP echos. :) Most sites don't enable them by default now. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 13:58:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA08930 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA08910 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:58:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132158.NAA08910@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA066992662; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:57:42 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:57:42 +1100 (EDT) Cc: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu, brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Jan 13, 97 11:02:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Chris Coleman, sie said: > > Ok, i have a machine on 10.16.14.10 > > in the FBSD box i have two network cards. > fxp0 inet 208.8.136.10 > fxp1 inet 10.16.14.1 > > i have ipfilter loaded in the kernel. > > im using /etc/natrules > > map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 208.8.136.13/24 portmap tcp/udp 1025:65000 > map fxp1 10.16.14.0/24 208.8.136.13/24 Try fpx0 instead of fpx1. When configuring IP Filter for NAT, you always specify the interface on which the packets exit (or are meant to exit) the box - i.e. the interface with the real Internet address. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 14:00:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA09062 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA09054 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:00:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132200.OAA09054@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA067442779; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:59:39 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:59:39 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Jan 12, 97 11:18:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Chris Coleman, sie said: > > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Darren Reed wrote: > > > > I have two cards in the FBSD box. fxp0 and vx0 > > > fpx0 is 208.8.136.10 > > > vx0 is 10.16.14.1 > > > > > > i have a client on 10.16.14.100 and i want it to be translated to > > > a 208.8.136.10 address so that it can go out. > > > > echo "map fpx0 10.16.14.100/32 -> 208.8.136.10/32" | ipnat -f - > OK. i did this, and did a ipnat -l and it showed up. > I cant test it till tomorrow. But i have a few questions. > > Do i have to do this for each client? You can do: map fpx0 10.0.0.0/8 -> 208.8.136.10/32 portmaptcp/udp 10000:65000 Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 14:02:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA09121 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:02:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA08958 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA20622; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:58:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id WAA03115; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:36:57 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:36:56 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: eivind@dimaga.com (Eivind Eklund) Subject: Re: Numerous minor with 2.1.6 References: <3.0.32.19970112155356.009c1100@dimaga.com> <3739.853113078@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 9) SERIOUS: XFree86 _rebooted_ the box when /dev/mouse was linked to > > /dev/mse0 and I ran a config with "Microsoft" as mouse protocol. /dev/mse0 > > Possible user error - did you enable the bus mouse in the kernel > configuration menu? No, it was a bug in the mse driver that has been fixed after 2.1.6 was cut. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 14:19:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA09994 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA09976 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.8.4/8.8.3) id QAA13145; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:18:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:18:34 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199701132218.QAA13145@plains.nodak.edu> To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: IPFILTER Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, chris@mail.bb.cc.wa.us, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ICMP is now (but it doesn't rewrite the headers in error packets). good. > > Also, to get a successful remapping for IP application, be sure that you > > turned on the IP forwarding on the NAT host (ie: > > > > sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 > > > > ). > > even better, for things like ftp which have address data in the TCP stream, > use a proxy. net.inet.ip.forwarding tells FreeBSD it is a IP router and that it should forward packets from one interface to another. NAT translates the IP packet but FreeBSD will eat the translate packet unless told to forward it. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 14:36:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA11219 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA11198 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32397 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:36:04 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA03055 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:33:58 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199701132233.XAA03055@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: msdosfs creates illegal dir names? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:33:58 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Howdy! While moving a magneto optical disk between a FreeBSD box and a Mac I noticed something peculiar. The MO contains a MSDOS filesystem (created by a real DOS machine). FreeBSD had no problems mounting it and copying a lot of files to it. The files came from a normal UFS filesystem. To be precise, the files where quite a lot of scanned images, who had been processed by xv. Xv had run it's "visual schnauzer" and created (on the original UFS filesystem) the .xvpics/ thumbnail directories. I subsequently copied the whole tree to the MO that was mounted on the FreeBSD box (using msdosfs). No problem here. Moved the whole thing to the Mac and mounted the MO using AccessPC. Result: dirs were visible, files only in a few directories. Hmm, lot of head scratching. The end result was that I discovered that there were _on the MSDOS_ filesystem directories called .xvp (note the leading .) Removing these made the Mac see all the files like it should. Question: are files/dirs with leading . valid DOS names? I'm really suspicious about 'm (all of this was 2.1.5R BTW) Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 14:48:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA12061 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA12046 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:48:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701132248.OAA12046@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA085405705; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:25 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFILTER To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:25 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701132218.QAA13145@plains.nodak.edu> from "Mark Tinguely" at Jan 13, 97 04:18:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Mark Tinguely, sie said: > > > > Also, to get a successful remapping for IP application, be sure that you > > > turned on the IP forwarding on the NAT host (ie: > > > > > > sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 > > > > > > ). > > > > even better, for things like ftp which have address data in the TCP stream, > > use a proxy. > > net.inet.ip.forwarding tells FreeBSD it is a IP router and that it should > forward packets from one interface to another. NAT translates the IP packet > but FreeBSD will eat the translate packet unless told to forward it. You, generally, need ip.forwarding set anyway in this kind of setup where FreeBSD is routing (forwarding) the packet onward to a final destination, irrespective of NAT being present. Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 15:32:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA15040 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA15010 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA28617; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:19:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132319.QAA28617@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? To: adonai@jump.net (Lee Crites) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:19:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dg@root.com, wollman@lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970113213527.00685734@jump.net> from "Lee Crites" at Jan 13, 97 03:35:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So now, back to my originally stated requests: > > * Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? There are some documented for various mechanisms, in the corresponding code itself. Other than that, there is mostly here-say. > * Who are the people working on them? In general, anyone who submits patches. It's somewhat of a "whoever touched it last". A lot of recent work went into the shared memory stuff (several months ago), for instance. The need to use msync() in INN was one of the things that came out of that. > * What kind of help do they need? The biggest help would be a validation suite. It would attempt all iterations of usage for an IPC facility, and report discrepancies between actual and expected behaviour. Expectation should be in terms of POSIX, SVID, and the Single UNIX standards, primarily, and historical behaviour, secondarily. There is a rather thorough validation suite for shared memory, which you can find in the -current list archives (it was posted to -current some time ago). I believe that it *does not* include interaction of a mmap'ed object with the file I/O subsystem; currently, the only test that shows the INN failure to use msync() appropriately is INN itself. 8-(. > * Can I try to abuse some of the fixes? Better to establish a baseline; without knowing expected behaviour, it will be difficult to establish the net effects of any fix. A "fix" which fixes one expected behaviour, but breaks three others, for instance, can not be easily identified without an exhaustive suite for testing behaviour before and after the fix. > And, some further, while I admit only implied, requests: > > * Is there a cental point with a list of the currently identified bugs? Yes. The gnats bug tracking database on freefall. This is accessable via www.freebsd.org; look there fore more details. > * How does somone with a vested interest in them get to that list? It is publically accessable. You should start with "man send-pr". > * How can someone like me help out? Fix all the bugs in the database. 8-). > * Are there compatibility tests with other os's? Yes. THe NIST/PCTS was recently fully released (see the NIST www page for details). The NIST/PCTS is the "National Institute of Standards and Technology, POSIX Conformance Test Suite". Apart from this, there is the Single UNIX Standard, from X/Open, the POSIX validation suite, also from X/Open, and the SVID/CTS (System V Interface Definition Conformance Test Suite), from USL. > If so, how can I see the results? For the NIST/PCTS, you must download it, and fix FreeBSD so it runs (by definition, it will not run in a non-conformant environment. The patches for this were uploaded to freefall, and posted about on -current; they are pretty much trivial. For the others, you will need to come up with $80,000 or more apiece for the various vendors. Not really worth it. > If not, why not? See above. > Are you waiting for someone to make it? There has been some discusion about the usefulness of standards; in particular, if you can;t flip a switch so that while you are developing or testing applications, that *ONLY* the ABI facilities that are part of a standard are usable, and all others return an error, then you can't really expect the standard to be useful. There was some discussion, on the BSD and Linux lists, and also on usenet, about starting a project "FABIO": Free Application Binary Interface Objective. The purpose of this would be to be able to switch a system into "FABIO mode" for vendor validation of applications. All applications passing this validation would be guaranteed to operate on all "FABIO compliant" systems. Compliance would be by way of self certification using a validation suite (again: we need a better set of validation tools). The FABIO ABI definition would start by picking one or more commercial systems and declaring them "runtime compliant" -- that is, they would not be good developement systems because you could not turn off vendor-private OS features during the application developement/validation process to ensure your app would run on all FABIO systems instead of just that vendors. The rest of the FABIO compliant systems (basically, free UNIX clones and any commercial vendor who wanted to jump in) would be "developement compliant". The net effect of this, if Linux and all the BSD's were on board, would be to move the commercial developement of binaries off to "developement compliant" systems, since by doing so, developers could have one package that would run on the largest number of machines. It would also mean that free UNIX clones that were FABIO compliant would not be orphaned -- commercial products would be much more widely available. Currently this is no more than it's name: an Objective, not an accomplished fact. What's missing is a target commercial system declaration (preferrably including version number) and ELF support in the default FreeBSD tool chain. > If it was made, would the results be appreciated or scorned? It would probably be appreciated, but only if it went far enough that it had value other than to maintaining an existing customer base for FreeBSD alone (which a FreeBSD specific validation suite for IPC facilities could do, but would do little beyond that. > There are more, but I think that give a clearer picture of where I wanted > this discussion to go... Well, hopefully, this is an answer you can accept. 8-). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 15:40:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA15588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA15507 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA28638; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:27:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701132327.QAA28638@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: bug in setsockopt()... ? To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:27:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: adonai@jump.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dg@root.com In-Reply-To: <9701132156.AA19128@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Jan 13, 97 04:56:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > So now, back to my originally stated requests: > > > * Can anyone point me to a list of the bugs in the ipc functions? > > No. Bruce Evans probably has one, but you win a prize if it's > anything you actually care about and can understand it in less than > ten minutes. Terry Lambert probably has one, but all Terry's bugs can > be boiled down to ``I want STREAMS'' so so that's probably not what > you're looking for either. Not true... I only think Streams should be one of the supported IPC facility interfaces because there is a lot of commercial code written to that interface. I *do* have a bias toward fully functionally abstracted interfaces... Streams just happens to be one, not the "only" one... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 16:45:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA19684 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA19675 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA21392; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:15:06 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140045.LAA21392@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: msdosfs creates illegal dir names? In-Reply-To: <199701132233.XAA03055@yedi.iaf.nl> from Wilko Bulte at "Jan 13, 97 11:33:58 pm" To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:15:05 +1030 (CST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wilko Bulte stands accused of saying: > > The end result was that I discovered that there were _on the MSDOS_ > filesystem directories called .xvp (note the leading .) Removing these > made the Mac see all the files like it should. > > Question: are files/dirs with leading . valid DOS names? I'm really > suspicious about 'm (all of this was 2.1.5R BTW) They're perfectly legitimate; it looks like your Mac software is buggy... > Wilko -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:10:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA21116 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA21100 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA21604; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:38:36 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140108.LAA21604@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Can you install and run FreeBSD on a Iomega Jaz cartridge? In-Reply-To: <199701132006.NAA28137@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Jan 13, 97 01:06:52 pm" To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:38:35 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, Gregory_D_Moncreaff@ccmail.ed.ray.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > > > > It would have to be an old SCSI controller for this... I have an NCR > > > and an AHA1742 that both work... > > > > I've tried mine on an NCR, Bustek BT542 and Ultrastor 34f, and none of > > them will boot from it, presumably because it says it's a removable. > > I think you are insane. 8-). > > I use the "turbo" switch on my front panel to swap drive ID's > between my internal DEC disk and my JAZ drive (0/2, 2/0) (the > idea of doing this came from Mike Mayberry). Fair enough. I use the same switch to enable/disable the BIOS on the Bt542 because it takes an annoyingly long time to decide that there are no disks on the bus. > I boot Solaris, NetBSD, and OpenBSD off of the JAZ drive with > the "turbo" button "on". Fair enough. Perhaps there is some other bogon in my system that causes it not to work. > Maybe you need to update your flash BIOS image to a more recent > version? Or you are using an NCR 815/825 with onboard BIOS? No, it's an 810 on a board without flashable BIOS. > My NCR BIOS is on my ASUS motherboard... I'd have to reboot to see > the exact rev. (I will if you need it... let me know for sure). All of the ones I've ever seen report themselves as "NCR SDMS 3.0". > Heh... I don't think, after looking at a Kawai Km, which expects it's > SCSI device to not return until the low level format is complete, > that *any* IOmega drive is built for musicians. A number of Yahama > boxes expect the same thing from their SCSI devices as well, and > since the Bernoulli days, IOmega drives have detached following > format. Who formats SCSI drives? How many musicians even know it's possible? 8) > There are half-size jumpers on the bottom of the internal version > of the drive... you should have bought your own shoebox and an > internal instead of buying an external... I couldn't find a shoebox that would fit in my satchel, or for that matter one with a universal power supply. I need to be able to travel with mine. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:14:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA21335 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA21328 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA21648; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:42:44 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140112.LAA21648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre In-Reply-To: from J Wunsch at "Jan 13, 97 10:20:45 pm" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:42:43 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > As Michael Smith wrote: > > > lovely /kernel: sd6(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > > lovely /kernel: sd6 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > > lovely /kernel: 1021MB (2091050 512 byte sectors) > > > > And the error is "I refuse to give you mode page 4", which is the > > "rigid disk geometry page", ie. the page where most disk lie outrageously > > about their supposed c/h/s geometry. > > That is, the ``invalid field'' is the page number? Yes. > You could easily verify this by > > scsi -v -f /dev/rsd1.ctl -m 4 > > If this also fails with an Invalid field in CDB, that's the culprit. In fact, that's exactly what I did to confirm that it was indeed the Mode Sense that was causing the error. I'm fairly sure that the Jaz firmware intentionally refuses to claim any particular geometry. > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:25:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22119 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA22110 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA11555; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:10:51 GMT Message-Id: <199701140110.BAA11555@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: SimsS cc: "Matthew A. Gessner" , hackers Subject: Re: 2.1.5 router/gateway In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:25:21 EST." <199701132025.UAA75044@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:10:51 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You're in luck - I've prepared a (FAQ? Netguide? User's Manual?) that > explains *exactly* how to do this. > > Are you interested in proofing it and/or providing f[r]eedback? > > ...sjs... I wouldn't mind taking a look. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:27:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22317 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA22290 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA11586; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:19:07 GMT Message-Id: <199701140119.BAA11586@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: msdosfs creates illegal dir names? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:33:58 +0100." <199701132233.XAA03055@yedi.iaf.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:19:07 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [.....] > Question: are files/dirs with leading . valid DOS names? I'm really > suspicious about 'm (all of this was 2.1.5R BTW) > > Wilko No. You've got to have at least one char before the '.'. Another "interesting" thing about the existing msdosfs: Share one of these partitions via samba, and then "copy-and-paste" a directory using win95. You end up with a rather messy directory that lacks '.' & '..' ! -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:27:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22409 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA22390 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA11052; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:59:19 GMT Message-Id: <199701140059.AAA11052@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Julian Elischer cc: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, archie@alpo.whistle.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:22:00 PST." <32D98E38.FF6D5DF@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:59:19 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > > > Danny > > > > Which ppp were you using ? > > as he said.... mpd > see > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.tgz > and > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.README (included > below) Any objections to a merge into 3.0-current ? -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 17:30:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA22748 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-7.mail.demon.net (relay-7.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA22741 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk ([158.152.17.1]) by relay-6.mail.demon.net id aa622420; 14 Jan 97 1:25 GMT Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (localhost.coverform.lan [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA11572; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:14:50 GMT Message-Id: <199701140114.BAA11572@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Terry Lambert cc: Andrew Stesin , karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:10:39 MST." <199701132110.OAA28246@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:14:49 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. > > > > [...] > > > > > Or? Am I completely off line here? > > > > No you aren't. I was thinking on it for years... but > > not enough hacking skills to do it actually. > > Cyclic file types imply record orientation. [.....] Unless of course you don't mind having a truncated line at the start of your log ;) This (IMHO) would be more "natural", 'cos there shouldn't be any "record" knowledge at that level. -- Brian , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 18:05:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA25310 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:05:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA25297 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA12321; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:07:06 +0100 (MET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199701140207.DAA12321@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:07:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701140114.BAA11572@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from Brian Somers at "Jan 14, 97 01:14:49 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Brian Somers: > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > Or? Am I completely off line here? > > > > > > No you aren't. I was thinking on it for years... but > > > not enough hacking skills to do it actually. > > > > Cyclic file types imply record orientation. > [.....] > > Unless of course you don't mind having a truncated line at the start of > your log ;) > > This (IMHO) would be more "natural", 'cos there shouldn't be any "record" > knowledge at that level. I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, plus minus a little. I think you could just say that when you filled one block (no matter what blocksize you run on the disk) and you need to add a new one to the file, just grab the first block, remove it from the front, clear it, append it to the end and start filling in data. Mininum cyclic filesize, two blocks. Always cut at full blocksizes. No matter what you might think of this, in terms of uggliness of such a hack, I think it would be a really nice extention to the normal file system, if it could be done, or as a new file system which is basically an FFS/UFS (whatever it is we use) with the modification of a file being able to be set cyclic on it. I mean, it's not a completely "clean" way of doing it, but it would suffice to keep log and debug files from filling filesystems, which is enough. If you logfile is about 10MB, do you care if it's 10000000 bytes or 10345620 bytes? Not very often. So... would this be hard to do, if you did it in the not-so-perfect, but easy way I described? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 19:04:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA28706 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA28700 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA04126; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:49:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32DAF3D0.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:47:44 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Somers CC: "Daniel O'Callaghan" , "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, archie@alpo.whistle.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router References: <199701140059.AAA11052@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers wrote: > > > Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > > > > > Danny > > > > > > Which ppp were you using ? > > > > as he said.... mpd > > see > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.tgz > > and > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.README (included > > below) > > Any objections to a merge into 3.0-current ? > well, there is a new version coming out within a day or two. it's also a duplicate of the ppp daemon to some extent. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 19:39:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA00181 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA00166 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:39:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701140339.TAA00166@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA187293033; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:37:13 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:37:13 +1100 (EDT) Cc: stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701132110.OAA28246@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 13, 97 02:10:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: > > Cyclic file types imply record orientation. > > They do this because you want to remove an atomic record each time > from the front of the file in order to add your record to the end > of the file. > > For wtmp style logs, the records are not variable length, so you > are pretty much OK. > > For console logs and message logs, however, you are pretty much > screwed. > > One problem is that the underlying storage is block instead of record > oriented anyway. On a VMS system, you'd write a new record and > modify an index; on a UNIX system, you would need to be able to > instert blocks at the end of the block list (which you can do) and > to collapse the block list up (which you can't do, currently). > > In addition, you would need to be able to have the first block > of the file be a right-associative (fill-to-end) instead of a > standard left associative (fill-from-start-to-n-bytes) frag. The > associativity is important to save copies, and since the truncate > from front for the cyclic behavior would result in frags which > shrink over time instead of frags which grow over time. > > All of this is possible, it's just not very pretty, and it doesn't > fit in very well with the allocation of indirect blocks... you would > need to (effectively) push all pointers up through the small number > of direct blocks at the front of the file, as you cycled data through. Forgive me for being simple, but why do you need to do that at all ? The way I see it, there some things to consider which you may (or may not) want to `work' with cyclic files: * offset - when you pass byte n of an n byte cylic file, should lseek tell you that you're at byte n+1 or 0 ? Does it make sense to return n+1 if it can't lseek to that absolute position ? Would lseek() be hacked to goto position x as x % n ? * blocks - why do you need to shuffle blocks around ? Why not just just the offset pointer once you get to the end ? (In effect, the write is done in 2 parts: first to the end of the file, the second from the start). * readers - if a reader is open and at position y and the next write will go from x to x+n whre x+n > y does the writer block ? (Consider that all data from y around to x is valid). I guess you're thinking of what happens when you keep appending to a file ...(open - write - close. I donm't see that non-block sized record files can exist as cyclic files properly under Unix, eg: I have a 30,000 byte cyclic file. I write 1 byte to it, making 30,001. This isn't enough to delete the first block, but you must append it. (hmmm, would this mean the first block would be a fragment - would it even work ?) Anyone for O_CYCLIC ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 19:44:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA00433 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA00370 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id OAA22707; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:13:15 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140343.OAA22707@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) In-Reply-To: <199701140207.DAA12321@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Jan 14, 97 03:07:05 am" To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:13:14 +1030 (CST) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mikael Karpberg stands accused of saying: > > I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just > like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, 'man newsyslog' > /Mikael -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 19:53:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA00773 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA00768 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id OAA20727; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:47:57 +1100 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:47:57 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701140347.OAA20727@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au Subject: Re: unused variable in su Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It should be strdup(). Using strncpy() or snprintf() to handle buffer >> overflows by truncating the string is sloppy. > >No, it is defensive programming, pure and simple. > >The buffer already IS a reasonable size - in fact, it is the >maximum legal path size. If the string copied into it is too Actually, it's the size of the longest path that is guaranteed to be acceptable to system calls that look up pathnames. Longer paths may work with non-system calls. E.g., getpwd() may return a path longer than MAXPATHLEN. >long, then it is going to get rejected by the execvp() anyway >- only the error number changes - EEXIST vs. ENAMETOOLONG. No, after you've truncated it to length MAXPATHLEN - 1, execv() may exec the wrong program. (execvp() would be a security hole in su, execvp() is careful about this problem. Try this: PATH=/111...:$PATH where there are about MAXPATHLEN 1's in the first component. execvp() will print a lot of annoying error messages.) >There is an advantage the snprintf() case, at least you can >detect if the formatted string would have overflowed. Although >it seems that the snprintf() return value is not often (enough) >checked. IMHO, it should be, perhaps even via syslog(), if >early notification of possible attacks is useful. How about using functions strancpy(), ..., asnprintf() that abort if the string is too long? This would be better than silently truncating the string. It would also take less code for the strncpy() case since null trermination would be guaranteed (else abort). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 23:26:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA26060 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA26053 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA22182 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:26:52 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Default accounting file permissions. Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:26:52 -0800 Message-ID: <22178.853226812@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In /etc/rc, we have the following behavior if accounting=YES in /etc/sysconfig: if [ "X${accounting}" = X"YES" -a -d /var/account ]; then echo 'turning on accounting' if [ ! -e /var/account/acct ]; then touch /var/account/acct fi accton /var/account/acct fi If there's no /var/account/acct file, it creates one with the standard umask by touching it and I think that this is bad. Would not: if [ ! -e /var/account/acct ]; then touch /var/account/acct && chmod 600 /var/account/acct fi Be safer, or would this break something? I don't think that Joe User should be able to see what root (or anyone else) is up to. If no one can point out how this might be bad, I'll make the change. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 23:28:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA26119 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA26112 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA12755; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:30:30 +0100 (MET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199701140730.IAA12755@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:30:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701140343.OAA22707@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Jan 14, 97 02:13:14 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Smith: > Mikael Karpberg stands accused of saying: > > > > I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just > > like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, > > 'man newsyslog' Huh? "No manual entry for newsyslog". I must say, though, that I just run 2.1.6, if that makes a difference. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 23:42:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA26933 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA26927 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA26993; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:12:34 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701140742.SAA26993@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) In-Reply-To: <199701140730.IAA12755@ocean.campus.luth.se> from Mikael Karpberg at "Jan 14, 97 08:30:30 am" To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:12:17 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mikael Karpberg stands accused of saying: > According to Michael Smith: > > Mikael Karpberg stands accused of saying: > > > > > > I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just > > > like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, > > > > 'man newsyslog' > > Huh? "No manual entry for newsyslog". I must say, though, that I just run > 2.1.6, if that makes a difference. Er, yes. You should be posting on the 'old farts' mailing list 8) Seriously, newsyslog is a 2.2-ism; basically it takes care of the issue you've raised in a low-overhead fashion suitable for logfiles. > /Mikael -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 13 23:58:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA28604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA28598 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA28113; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma028111; Mon Jan 13 23:57:53 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA17314; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:57:53 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199701140757.XAA17314@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router In-Reply-To: <32DAF3D0.41C67EA6@whistle.com> from Julian Elischer at "Jan 13, 97 06:47:44 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:57:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, danny@panda.hilink.com.au, ejs@bfd.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, archie@alpo.whistle.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > > > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > > > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > > > > > > > Danny > > > > > > > > Which ppp were you using ? > > > > > > as he said.... mpd > > > see > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.tgz > > > and > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.01a1.README (included > > > below) > > > > Any objections to a merge into 3.0-current ? > > > well, there is a new version coming out within a day or two. > it's also a duplicate of the ppp daemon to some extent. The new version is now on ftp.freebsd.org... ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.0b1.tgz Any feedback appreciated. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 00:01:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA28786 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA28777 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA28135; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma028133; Tue Jan 14 00:00:50 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA17342; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:00:50 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199701140800.AAA17342@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Multilink PPP (was Re: FreeBSD as an ISDN Router) In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Jan 13, 97 12:44:52 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:00:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, ejs@bfd.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Have you looked at multiple modems? I have a link between two FreeBSD > > > boxes using 3 * 33.6k modems and mpd. Compressed files transfer at > > > 9kbytes/sec (faster than 64kbps ISDN). > > > > > > Danny > > > > Which ppp were you using ? > > mpd from ftp.freebsd.org:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/mpd-1.0a1.tgz, with patches > for use with Cyclades cards. > > Author is Archie Cobbs . There seems to be some > empty mpd-1.0.b1.tgz files in the incoming directory. Archie?! Problem resolved with help from Jordan :-) -Archie P.S. If your firewall requires passive FTP, don't forget to type "pass" before uploading files :-) ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 00:20:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA29650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from empire.hw.nl (empire.hw.nl [194.151.67.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id AAA29640 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from orac.hw.nl (orac.hw.nl [192.168.2.7]) by empire.hw.nl (8.8.4/1.00) with SMTP id JAA22139; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:20:19 +0100 (MET) Received: by orac.hw.nl id JAA11783; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:20:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199701140820.JAA11783@orac.hw.nl> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:20:15 +0100 From: peter@hw.nl (Peter Korsten) To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte), FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Subject: Re: msdosfs creates illegal dir names? References: <199701132233.XAA03055@yedi.iaf.nl> <199701140119.BAA11586@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.48.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199701140119.BAA11586@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>; from Brian Somers on Jan 14, 1997 01:19:07 +0000 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers shared with us: > > Another "interesting" thing about the existing msdosfs: Share one of these > partitions via samba, and then "copy-and-paste" a directory using win95. You > end up with a rather messy directory that lacks '.' & '..' ! Is there any chance that long (W95) filenames will be supported in a future version of msdosfs? Since I can't get my Teles ISDN-card to work with FreeBSD and PPP (yet), I use W95 to ftp large archives. It's a bit of a drag to have to zip them in W95 and unzip them in FreeBSD. - Peter -- Peter Korsten | peter@hw.nl | http://www.hw.nl/~peter/ Haesenbos, Wetzels & Van der Heijden Multimedia Support 'Never EVER mess with a jumper you don't know about, even if it's labeled "sex and free beer".' -Dave Haynie, Amiga developer From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 00:51:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA01344 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA01339 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA04192 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:51:01 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.4/8.6.9) id JAA06212; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:31:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:31:03 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre References: <199701140112.LAA21648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55-PL10 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199701140112.LAA21648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Jan 14, 1997 11:42:43 +1030 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Smith wrote: > > That is, the ``invalid field'' is the page number? > > Yes. Ick. Catching this will more complicate the sd driver. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 02:37:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA05469 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA05463 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:37:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00009 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:37:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0vk6Eh-00020RC; Tue, 14 Jan 97 11:36 MET Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA263998091; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:34:51 +0100 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199701141034.AA263998091@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:34:50 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701140339.TAA00166@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Jan 14, 97 02:37:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk E-mail message from Darren Reed contained: > > The way I see it, there some things to consider which you may (or may > not) want to `work' with cyclic files: > > * offset - when you pass byte n of an n byte cylic file, should lseek tell > you that you're at byte n+1 or 0 ? > > Does it make sense to return n+1 if it can't lseek to that > absolute position ? Would lseek() be hacked to goto position > x as x % n ? > > > * blocks - why do you need to shuffle blocks around ? Why not just just > the offset pointer once you get to the end ? (In effect, the > write is done in 2 parts: first to the end of the file, the > second from the start). > > * readers - if a reader is open and at position y and the next write will > go from x to x+n whre x+n > y does the writer block ? (Consider > that all data from y around to x is valid). There is a rather simple way to satisfy most of these semantic requirements: replace the leading blocks with holes--the file grows in the length, lseek works as expected, but write is only guaranteed to succeed if it fails in the last part of the file, and the filesystem occupancy does not increase. read succeeds always, but sometimes it returns a buffer full of (leading) zeros. > > I guess you're thinking of what happens when you keep appending to a file > ...(open - write - close. I donm't see that non-block sized record > files can exist as cyclic files properly under Unix, eg: > > I have a 30,000 byte cyclic file. I write 1 byte to it, making 30,001. > This isn't enough to delete the first block, but you must append it. > (hmmm, would this mean the first block would be a fragment - would it even > work ?) Don't see a problem here; just blast away the leading blocks--unallocate them. The last block can easily be a fragment. /Marino > > Anyone for O_CYCLIC ? > > Darren > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 03:08:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA06430 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA06408 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:08:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701141108.DAA06408@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA295639877; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:04:37 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:04:36 +1100 (EDT) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701141034.AA263998091@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> from "Hr.Ladavac" at Jan 14, 97 11:34:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Hr.Ladavac, sie said: > > E-mail message from Darren Reed contained: > > > > The way I see it, there some things to consider which you may (or may > > not) want to `work' with cyclic files: > > > > * offset - when you pass byte n of an n byte cylic file, should lseek tell > > you that you're at byte n+1 or 0 ? > > > > Does it make sense to return n+1 if it can't lseek to that > > absolute position ? Would lseek() be hacked to goto position > > x as x % n ? > > > > > > * blocks - why do you need to shuffle blocks around ? Why not just just > > the offset pointer once you get to the end ? (In effect, the > > write is done in 2 parts: first to the end of the file, the > > second from the start). Hmmm, I can see that rotating the block list would be necessary if the there is open-write-close behaviour. > > * readers - if a reader is open and at position y and the next write will > > go from x to x+n whre x+n > y does the writer block ? (Consider > > that all data from y around to x is valid). > > There is a rather simple way to satisfy most of these semantic requirements: > replace the leading blocks with holes--the file grows in the length, lseek > works as expected, but write is only guaranteed to succeed if it > fails in the last part of the file, and the filesystem occupancy does not > increase. read succeeds always, but sometimes it returns a buffer full of > (leading) zeros. But then stat(2) lies about the real file size - I'd call that a bug. I'd also call the behaviour of read in this instance buggy too, a read on a cyclic buffer should never return 0's in the buffer (unless they were written as 0's initially). Whilst these requirements seemingly solve the problems, they do not lead to a very good implementation of cyclic files. > > I guess you're thinking of what happens when you keep appending to a file > > ...(open - write - close. I donm't see that non-block sized record > > files can exist as cyclic files properly under Unix, eg: > > > > I have a 30,000 byte cyclic file. I write 1 byte to it, making 30,001. > > This isn't enough to delete the first block, but you must append it. > > (hmmm, would this mean the first block would be a fragment - would it even > > work ?) > > Don't see a problem here; just blast away the leading blocks--unallocate them. > The last block can easily be a fragment. BUT, adding one byte means only the 1st byte should be deleted. That isn't an entire block. So you want the first block to be 511 bytes and the last to be 1 byte long. The last block isn't a problem, but what about the first ? (By adding 1 byte, I mean open(O_APPEND), write(1 byte), close()) Hmmm, will this sort of thing lead to an increasing large number of fragments ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 03:25:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA07034 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA06987 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA05109 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:23:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id MAA12758 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:21:57 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:21:57 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701141121.MAA12758@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: xterm, color_xterm, mutt Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hhmm, when xterm replaces color_xterm, so why doesn't mutt (the elm-lookalike-but-fancier-colors-mail-reader) show in colors any longer. I tried with TERM=xterm-color and TERM=xterm and the world is two colored :-( Trying my backup copy of color_xterm brings back colors - just has this utmp nastiness. Has anyone tried it out? Would the new termcap.src help (donated by Xinside)? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 03:58:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA08135 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (root@[199.165.180.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA08130; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (mcgovern@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA01663; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:58:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701141158.GAA01663@spoon.beta.com> To: Dave Costantino cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3com 3c509 / SB16 PNP Problems.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:39:17 EST." <199701140839.DAA01040@chaos.tmok.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:58:23 -0500 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem is in the Plug-n-Pray feature of the cards. I think I blame the ep driver more than anything else. I took a brief look at the driver (and, I admit, i'm no driver wizard, but...), and it appears that even with plug and play turned off on the the 3C509, the driver still uses some of it to get a list of potential cards in the system (hence the "... 3C5X9 found at ..." message), even when all of the hardware values are specified on the config line. Unfortunately, it appears that, since the SB-PNP is also a PnP card, it responds to the query for the 3Com card. The driver then checks it out, determines its not really a 3Com 3C5X9 card, discards it, then reissues the query (starting over, rather than after the SB card). Now, I'm sure to get beat up by whoever is currently maintaining the ep driver that this isn't exactly how it works, but this is just my opinion, looking from the outside, and doing the little poking that I can. Unfortunately, I never did find a fix. I eventually gave up, and put a 3C59X (PCI) in the machine at home that was having a problem. Apparently, the vx driver doesn't work this way. Unfortunately, I guess 3Com decided to scrap the 3C59X's in favor of the 3C90X. The 3C59Xs are getting a little scarce in the marketplace at this point. Fortunately, the 900's are now supported (although I get unusual transciver messages when configing the card, but they're just a minor annoyance). Subsequently, I have, oh, 10-12 HP machines at work (Cisco Systems) that will eventually be running FreeBSD. All of them had SB 32-PNPs in them (and their "built in" Ethernet card kinda looked like an lnc card to FreeBSD, but it doesn't work well). 3C905s for all! (gives me a good upgrade path to 100-Base T anyhow) Sorry to respond with such bad news, but... "Thats the way it is". -Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 03:59:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA08188 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA08179 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id MAA09929 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:57:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA00455 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:58:38 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114125837.00a71dc0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:58:38 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Eivind Eklund Subject: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have Samba running on a 2.1.6-system - a Compaq ProSignia 500 (built-in NCR-controller and AMD Lance ethernet), with Windows NT 4.0 and Windows95 as clients. After doing some performance-tuning (especially enabling TCP_NODELAY), this work quite well. Runs approx 800KB/s both on read and write. This same server dial out with PPP. One day I got a fit of paranoia, and decided to install ipfw to throw away packets coming from the net. The firewalling worked, performance for reads from Samba is the same as ever, but performance for writes dropped from well above 500KB/s to approx 20KB/s (25-fold). The problem perists even with a ruleset that start with 00050 allow all from any to any which should catch all and make the ruleset as fast as possible. Has anybody got a clue? Because, in this case, I haven't. (A hyopthesis is that something might happen to the TCP_NODELAY option when firewalling is enabled, but this sounds kind of unlikely.) Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 04:29:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA10122 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA10110 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id NAA10303 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:27:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA00646 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:27:51 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114132750.00a74de0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:27:51 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:58 PM 1/14/97 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: >This same server dial out with PPP. One day I got a fit of paranoia, and >decided to install ipfw to throw away packets coming from the net. The >firewalling worked, performance for reads from Samba is the same as ever, >but performance for writes dropped from well above 500KB/s to approx 20KB/s > (25-fold). More information: It seems that the read-speed dropped for _some_ people, but not for all - personally, I found no change. The write-speed seemed to drop consistently. (And yes, the problem is isolated to be when the firewall is enabled - that, at least, is consistent :) Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 04:32:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA10305 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from solar.tlk.com (JpQOxPXQLDy81GTlEFaQtugrMQ5pjsJU@solar.tlk.com [194.97.84.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA10298 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by solar.tlk.com via sendmail with stdio id for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:31:15 +0100 (MET)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:31:15 +0100 (MET) From: torstenb@solar.tlk.com (Torsten Blum) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: xterm, color_xterm, mutt References: <199701141121.MAA12758@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph wrote: >Has anyone tried it out? Would the new termcap.src help (donated by >Xinside)? No, it's a termcap entry for dtterm (CDE) -tb From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 05:22:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA12155 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA12150 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id AAA08082; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:18:20 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:18:20 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199701141318.AAA08082@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, torstenb@solar.tlk.com Subject: Re: xterm, color_xterm, mutt Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Has anyone tried it out? Would the new termcap.src help (donated by >>Xinside)? > >No, it's a termcap entry for dtterm (CDE) cap_mkdb says: cap_mkdb: ignored duplicate: dtterm There is no duplicate. Changing `dtterm' to `dtterm|foo' fixes it. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 05:41:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA12639 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA12634 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA36832; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:39:35 +0200 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:43:37 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin To: Brian Somers cc: Terry Lambert , karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? In-Reply-To: <199701140114.BAA11572@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > > > Yeah, the cyclic file type is (stupidly) missing from unix. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > Or? Am I completely off line here? > > > > > > No you aren't. I was thinking on it for years... but > > > not enough hacking skills to do it actually. > > > > Cyclic file types imply record orientation. > [.....] > > Unless of course you don't mind having a truncated line at the start of your log ;) As for me, I don't. > > This (IMHO) would be more "natural", 'cos there shouldn't be any "record" knowledge at that level. > Agreed. Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 05:48:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA12970 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from whale.gu.kiev.ua (whale.gu.net [194.93.190.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id FAA12955 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from trifork.gu.net (trifork.gu.net [194.93.190.194]) by whale.gu.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA57298; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:47:45 +0200 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:51:47 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin To: Mikael Karpberg cc: Brian Somers , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) In-Reply-To: <199701140207.DAA12321@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just > like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, > plus minus a little. Exactly. I'm sure that even if your requested arbitrary size of a cyclic file will be rounded to a FS blocksize boundary by the implementation -- no problem at all. > I think you could just say that when you filled one > block (no matter what blocksize you run on the disk) and you need to > add a new one to the file, just grab the first block, remove it from the > front, clear it, append it to the end and start filling in data. Mininum > cyclic filesize, two blocks. Always cut at full blocksizes. I wholeheartly second your approach. > No matter what you might think of this, in terms of uggliness of such a hack, > I think it would be a really nice extention to the normal file system, if Be it "ugly" or not -- it's useful... [...] Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 06:10:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA14140 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA14125 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:10:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701141410.GAA14125@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA038710979; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:09:39 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem To: eivind@dimaga.com (Eivind Eklund) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:09:38 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970114132750.00a74de0@dimaga.com> from "Eivind Eklund" at Jan 14, 97 01:27:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Eivind Eklund, sie said: > > At 12:58 PM 1/14/97 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >This same server dial out with PPP. One day I got a fit of paranoia, and > >decided to install ipfw to throw away packets coming from the net. The > >firewalling worked, performance for reads from Samba is the same as ever, > >but performance for writes dropped from well above 500KB/s to approx 20KB/s > > (25-fold). > > More information: It seems that the read-speed dropped for _some_ people, > but not for all - personally, I found no change. The write-speed seemed to > drop consistently. > > (And yes, the problem is isolated to be when the firewall is enabled - > that, at least, is consistent :) if you have time/motivation, can you try IP Filter & let me know if that makes any difference vs ipfw ? tnx From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 06:43:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA15733 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from snail.slow.net (root@snail.slow.net [204.50.80.175]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA15706 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lancelot@localhost) by snail.slow.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) id JAA22328; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:42:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:42:35 -0500 (EST) From: Sire Lancelot du Lac To: Wilko Bulte cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: msdosfs creates illegal dir names? In-Reply-To: <199701132233.XAA03055@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Files starting with a dot are drivers for MacOS, .sony is the disk driver, .aout and .bout are the serial ports drivers, etc... Christian Doucet lancelot@slow.net work: +1 514 728 1618 Freelance "Sysadmin-Programmer-UNIX-Internet" guru! home: +1 514 728 1618 Y'a rien de plus troublant qu'un trou noir. -- Sol (Marc Favreau) This sentance has threee errors. -- trurl@yakko.nceye.net This sentence no verb. -- someone The answer to life, the universe and sendmail is 25 -- chimmy@knott12.ncl.ac.uk On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Howdy! > > While moving a magneto optical disk between a FreeBSD box and > a Mac I noticed something peculiar. The MO contains a MSDOS filesystem > (created by a real DOS machine). > > FreeBSD had no problems mounting it and copying a lot of files to it. > > The files came from a normal UFS filesystem. > To be precise, the files where quite a lot of scanned images, who had > been processed by xv. Xv had run it's "visual schnauzer" and created > (on the original UFS filesystem) the .xvpics/ thumbnail directories. > > I subsequently copied the whole tree to the MO that was mounted on the > FreeBSD box (using msdosfs). No problem here. > > Moved the whole thing to the Mac and mounted the MO using AccessPC. > Result: dirs were visible, files only in a few directories. Hmm, > lot of head scratching. > > The end result was that I discovered that there were _on the MSDOS_ > filesystem directories called .xvp (note the leading .) Removing these > made the Mac see all the files like it should. > > Question: are files/dirs with leading . valid DOS names? I'm really > suspicious about 'm (all of this was 2.1.5R BTW) > > Wilko > _ ____________________________________________________________________ > | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands > |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 06:53:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA16217 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from pdx1.world.net (pdx1.world.net [192.243.32.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA16207 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:53:52 -0800 (PST) From: proff@suburbia.net Received: from suburbia.net (suburbia.net [203.4.184.1]) by pdx1.world.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA26176 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14705 invoked by uid 110); 14 Jan 1997 14:53:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19970114145300.14704.qmail@suburbia.net> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? In-Reply-To: from Andrew Stesin at "Jan 14, 97 06:43:37 pm" To: stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:53:00 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This (IMHO) would be more "natural", 'cos there shouldn't be any "record" knowledge at that level. > > > Agreed. > > Best regards, > Andrew Stesin > > nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE You can fake record boundaries a number of ways, presume fixed record size: (1) choose the cycle size to be a multiple of the record size (2) once the file size has reached the cycle size, truncate by the size of the write. we presume that the write size equals the record size (which it does for struct /var/log/foo) -Julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 07:27:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA17784 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA17778 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01527 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:33:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114102731.00a82eb0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:27:33 -0500 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis Subject: Re: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:09 AM 1/15/97 +1100, you wrote: >In some mail from Eivind Eklund, sie said: >> >> At 12:58 PM 1/14/97 +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: >> >This same server dial out with PPP. One day I got a fit of paranoia, and >> >decided to install ipfw to throw away packets coming from the net. The >> >firewalling worked, performance for reads from Samba is the same as ever, >> >but performance for writes dropped from well above 500KB/s to approx 20KB/s >> > (25-fold). >> >> More information: It seems that the read-speed dropped for _some_ people, >> but not for all - personally, I found no change. The write-speed seemed to >> drop consistently. >> >> (And yes, the problem is isolated to be when the firewall is enabled - >> that, at least, is consistent :) > >if you have time/motivation, can you try IP Filter & let me know if that >makes any difference vs ipfw ? Using "SAMBA" and "Performance" in the same sentence is poor english. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 07:44:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA18526 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nevis.oss.uswest.net (nevis.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA18521 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from greg@localhost) by nevis.oss.uswest.net (8.8.2/8.8.2) id JAA17968 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:43:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Greg Rowe" Message-Id: <9701140943.ZM17966@nevis.oss.uswest.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:43:31 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Greg Rowe" "Re: 2.2 BETA Upgrade Problem" (Jan 9, 7:47am) References: <9701081115.ZM12694@nevis.oss.uswest.net> <9701090747.ZM21106@nevis.oss.uswest.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2 BETA Upgrade Problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem seems to only exist (at least here) when the NFS mounted filesystem resides on a 2.1.5 or a 2.1.6 system. If the filesystem is on a 2.2 system, the Upgrade via NFS works perfectly. Jordan, I have systems I can test with if you need me to try anything. Greg On Jan 9, 7:47am, Greg Rowe wrote: > Subject: Re: 2.2 BETA Upgrade Problem > I tried from a 2.1.5 and a 2.1.6 system. I'll try from a 2.2 system today and > let you know. > > Greg > > On Jan 8, 11:00pm, J Wunsch wrote: > > Subject: Re: 2.2 BETA Upgrade Problem > > As Chuck Robey wrote: > > > > > I just used nfs to load my new machine from an existing one. Didn't > > > have to go out of my little 2 machine net, but it worked line a > > > charm. > > > > Most of my 2.2-release-cycle tests have been installed over NFS, too. > > However, in my case the server is running FreeBSD-almost-current, not > > 2.1.something. > > > > -- > > cheers, J"org > > Has anyone seen a problem with 2.2 BETA upgrade procedure using NFS ? If I do an upgrade using NFS, as soon as it gets to the point of installing the distributions, it immediately comes back with a "Couldn't extract the following distributions" (all distributions are listed) error. The debug screen shows that the device was mounted to /dist but ls'ing /dist gives a "Stale NFS file handle" error. If I create another directory(while still in the install shell) and try doing the mount again, the mount command completes with no error but again ls'ing produces the "Stale NFS file handle" error. I've tried upgrading two different systems, from two different NFS servers with the same results. Both NFS servers contain the 2.1.6 Release directory and that upgrade works fine. I can upgrade another system if you need me to test anything. Thanks. -- Greg Rowe | U S West - Interact Services | INTERNET greg@uswest.net 111 Washington Ave. South | Fax: (612) 672-8537 Minneapolis, MN USA 55401 | Voice: (612) 672-8535 Never trust an operating system you don't have source for.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 08:14:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA19987 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from renoir.cftnet.com (renoir.cftnet.com [163.125.1.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA19982 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (gambert@localhost) by renoir.cftnet.com (8.8.0/8.6.4) id LAA16162; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:14:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen W. Gambert" X-Sender: gambert@renoir.cftnet.com To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Upgrading from 2.2-Alpha to 2.2-Beta Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm currently running 2.2-Alpha and am experiencing some problems domain name resolution. I'm not sure exactly where the problem lies and i'm wondering if upgrading to 2.2-Beta will fix the problem. When i'm not my 2.2-Alpha system and type telnet www.mcafee.com I get www.mcafee.com: Unknown host But when I use dig to lookup the name it comes back fine with no problems. If I add the IP address of this host to my /etc/hosts file telnet works fine. Other than this bug I've had no problems running 2.2-Alpha and look forward to moving to 2.2-Release. Is anyone aware of this problem? Will upgrading to 2.2-Beta fix this problem? If I do upgrade to 2.2-Beta can I just download all the source and just recompile it or should I use the fixit floppy and upgrade this way? Thanks for your help. Allen Allen W. Gambert (813)980-1317 CFTnet Operation Center gambert@cftnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 08:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA20806 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic.follonett.no (nic.follonett.no [194.198.43.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA20800 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nic.follonett.no (8.8.3/8.8.3) with UUCP id RAA13633; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:28:38 +0100 (MET) Received: from oo7 (oo7.dimaga.com [192.0.0.65]) by dimaga.com (8.7.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id RAA06341; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:29:41 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114172941.00a79ae0@dimaga.com> X-Sender: eivind@dimaga.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:29:42 +0100 To: dennis From: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:27 AM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >Using "SAMBA" and "Performance" in the same sentence is poor >english. I've found tweaked Samba to usually have acceptable performance (>90% of network bandwidth as transfer speed.) The problems that are present seems to be mainly related to client bugs. Some of them trigger on Samba not doing the exact same things as WindowsNT og LANmanager - as an example, Win3.11, Win95, WinNT 3.51 and WinNT 4.0 all have *different* bugs in the code for handling unencrypted passwords. (And I know these to be bugs - I wrote the code to go around them myself.) Anyway; what SMB-manager for UNIX do you suggest, for best performance? Or what other system, for connecting WinNT 4.0 clients? Commercial systems is also of interest. (I'd like something with support for being a Primary Domain Controller - but will probably wait for Samba 2.0) Eivind Eklund / perhaps@yes.no / http://maybe.yes.no/perhaps/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 08:55:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA22285 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.ctron.com (ctron.com [134.141.197.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA22278 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by gatekeeper.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA29091 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:55:23 -0500 Received: from stealth.ctron.com(134.141.5.107) by gatekeeper via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma028852; Tue Jan 14 11:52:42 1997 Received: from thoth.ctron.com by stealth.ctron.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02283; Tue, 14 Jan 97 11:58:25 EST Received: from thoth (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thoth.ctron.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA05275 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:54:14 -0500 Message-Id: <32DBBA35.5CB9@ctron.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:54:13 -0500 From: Alexander Seth Jones Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: multithreaded C++ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone know of any multithreaded versions of libg++ that work with pthreads? Thanks. -- Alex Jones | ajones@ctron.com Cabletron Systems, Inc. Durham, NH USA 03824 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 08:55:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA22362 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.lab (phantom.pluscom.ru [194.85.94.162]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA22322 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phantom (localhost.pluscom.ru [127.0.0.1]) by ns.lab (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA01013; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:55:40 +0300 Message-ID: <32DBBA8B.41C67EA6@phantom.pluscom.ru> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:55:39 +0000 From: Michael Shestyriov Organization: Planet Earth X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) X-URL: file://localhost/ar/www/data/handbook/handbook188.html#404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 08:59:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA22660 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA22653 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA29888; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:46:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141646.JAA29888@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:46:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701140114.BAA11572@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> from "Brian Somers" at Jan 14, 97 01:14:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Cyclic file types imply record orientation. > [.....] > > Unless of course you don't mind having a truncated line at the start > of your log ;) > > This (IMHO) would be more "natural", 'cos there shouldn't be any > "record" knowledge at that level. "Natural" for text files, maybe. For the wtmp file, it's not so natural... it's wierd, even, since you can't resync to a valid record boundry without sync data built into the data format. For text files, the sync data can be "after the first \n", since it is a variable length record format with "\n" record seperators, but how do you resync wtmp? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:14:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA23522 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA23510 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA02250; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:20:49 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114121426.00a0ad40@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:14:28 -0500 To: Eivind Eklund From: dennis Subject: Re: IPFW + Samba -> performance problem Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:29 PM 1/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >At 10:27 AM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Using "SAMBA" and "Performance" in the same sentence is poor >>english. > >I've found tweaked Samba to usually have acceptable performance (>90% of >network bandwidth as transfer speed.) The problems that are present seems >to be mainly related to client bugs. Some of them trigger on Samba not >doing the exact same things as WindowsNT og LANmanager - as an example, >Win3.11, Win95, WinNT 3.51 and WinNT 4.0 all have *different* bugs in the >code for handling unencrypted passwords. (And I know these to be bugs - I >wrote the code to go around them myself.) > >Anyway; what SMB-manager for UNIX do you suggest, for best performance? Or >what other system, for connecting WinNT 4.0 clients? I suggest dumping LAN manager, because that is the problem. We use Netcon's IPX server.... Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:39:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25131 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA25118 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA29974; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:26:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141726.KAA29974@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: mount -o async on a news servre To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:26:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "J Wunsch" at Jan 13, 97 10:25:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Huh? How do "other BSD's" handle reading the media size from a drive > > > that handles variable size media? I think you're dreaming again. > > > > They don't attempt to read it until they verify that media is present. > > Btw., FreeBSD also re-reads the geometry later if needed. The number > presented at boot is only for convenience there. *Convenience*?!?!?! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:43:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25500 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:43:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA25495 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA29988; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:30:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141730.KAA29988@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Can you install and run FreeBSD on a Iomega Jaz cartridge? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:30:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Gregory_D_Moncreaff@ccmail.ed.ray.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199701140108.LAA21604@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 14, 97 11:38:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I boot Solaris, NetBSD, and OpenBSD off of the JAZ drive with > > the "turbo" button "on". > > Fair enough. Perhaps there is some other bogon in my system that causes > it not to work. Try this: 1) Power on your machine 2) Wait for SCSI bus probe 3) Insert the media This is necessary on the Alpha, or the disk does not spin up... > > Heh... I don't think, after looking at a Kawai Km, which expects it's > > SCSI device to not return until the low level format is complete, > > that *any* IOmega drive is built for musicians. A number of Yahama > > boxes expect the same thing from their SCSI devices as well, and > > since the Bernoulli days, IOmega drives have detached following > > format. > > Who formats SCSI drives? How many musicians even know it's possible? 8) All the musicians who buy JAZ drives and don't want to spend another $120 on media because the default tools disk is software "locked", of course, since you would never want to delete your DOS utilities... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:46:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25714 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA25707 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA29999; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:33:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141733.KAA29999@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cyclic filesystem (WAS: Re: truss, trace ??) To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:33:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701140207.DAA12321@ocean.campus.luth.se> from "Mikael Karpberg" at Jan 14, 97 03:07:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I for one couldn't care less how good the implementation is. I would just > like a nice efficient way of making any logfile max out at a certain size, > plus minus a little. I think you could just say that when you filled one > block (no matter what blocksize you run on the disk) and you need to > add a new one to the file, just grab the first block, remove it from the > front, clear it, append it to the end and start filling in data. Mininum > cyclic filesize, two blocks. Always cut at full blocksizes. [ ... ] > So... would this be hard to do, if you did it in the not-so-perfect, but easy > way I described? 1) Make FS stacking work (good luck; I've been submitting patches on this one for years... lieterally). 2) Once stacking works, hide the mechanics and attribution in the stacking layer. Yes, this means copying the file back in itself on truncation, but it would work. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:47:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA25811 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cold.org (glacier.cold.org [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA25806 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by cold.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA03253 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:48:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:48:47 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: select() on a serial device--ignoring OS buffered chars? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a function that does a read on a serial device that is set as non-blocking. I have a monitor on the line and I KNOW the OS has the characters sent to it, and they are likely buffered, but this function is not behaving correctly. How DOES select() behave with a 'timeout' waiting for input? I'm calling it with a 60 second timeout waiting for one bleeding character--it reaches the end of the 60 seconds and says nothing was received. The code is: static Bool read_port_char(uChar * c, int sec, long usec) { fd_set read_fds; int r = 0; int scount; struct timeval tv; if (!(r = read(portfd, c, 1))) { /* use select to timeout */ FD_ZERO(&read_fds); DEBUGMSG(("read char: sec=%d; usec=%d\n", sec, usec)); tv.tv_sec = sec*60; tv.tv_usec = usec; FD_SET(portfd, &read_fds); scount = select(1, &read_fds, NULL, NULL, &tv); /* crash and burn? */ if (scount == F_FAILURE && errno != EINTR) { DEBUGMSG(("select(1, {%d,%ld}, NULL, NULL, &tv)\n",sec,usec)); die("read_port_char(): select(): [%d] %s\n",errno,strerror(errno)); } /* anything happen, or did we just timeout? */ if (scount <= 0) return NO; /* if the count is one this should already be relevant, but *shrug* */ if (!FD_ISSET(portfd, &read_fds)) return NO; /* we should never fail here--its only one char and select said yes */ if (!(r = read(portfd, c, 1))) return NO; } if (r == F_FAILURE) die("read(): %s\n", strerror(errno)); return YES; } If it gets a character on the first read it works fine. If it drops to using select to timeout it never reads a character (it'll always return NO). I know the input is there because after this timeout the code calling it resets what it was doing and re-reads, immediately it gets a character. Notes: portfd is a /dev/tty device that has been open()ed as a non-blocking device. I have done this hundred of other times in other code--but never using select in this way. sec is either zero or one, I multiply it by 60 to make the 'sleep' time visibly noticable. Help? I can revert this code back to what it was before--where I called the select with no file descriptors simply to get a microsecond sleep, but I would prefer to use select as it was intended... -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 09:58:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA26503 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA26498 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA00127; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:44:42 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141744.KAA00127@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:44:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199701140337.UAA16894@coyote.Artisoft.COM> from "Darren Reed" at Jan 14, 97 02:37:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: ^^^ -- Is this British, or what? > The way I see it, there some things to consider which you may (or may > not) want to `work' with cyclic files: > > * offset - when you pass byte n of an n byte cylic file, should lseek tell > you that you're at byte n+1 or 0 ? > > Does it make sense to return n+1 if it can't lseek to that > absolute position ? Would lseek() be hacked to goto position > x as x % n ? I think you are getting confused with a VMS C library bug here, where it put the lseek/tell boundries on records instead of bytes, and failed to advance the record pointer after implying the carriage return carriage control to the stream. Even so, there remains the problem of reclaiming the blocks at the front of the file, even if there was unused room in the inode to store an offset. > * blocks - why do you need to shuffle blocks around ? Why not just just > the offset pointer once you get to the end ? (In effect, the > write is done in 2 parts: first to the end of the file, the > second from the start). Because you must deallocate blocks. Also: what happens after two years of running this log file, when the end offset exceeds the number of bytes storable in an inode, even if you have hacked it to have a start offset some number of bytes from the end offset? You *must* move block offsets or you will face this problem. > * readers - if a reader is open and at position y and the next write will > go from x to x+n whre x+n > y does the writer block ? (Consider > that all data from y around to x is valid). No. The reader gets bad data. File offsets associate with fd's, not with vnodes, or with on disk inode data. No matter how you do it, you could be "more"ing the log file, go on vacation, and come back two weeks later and hit "space". > I guess you're thinking of what happens when you keep appending to a file > ...(open - write - close. I donm't see that non-block sized record > files can exist as cyclic files properly under Unix, eg: > > I have a 30,000 byte cyclic file. I write 1 byte to it, making 30,001. > This isn't enough to delete the first block, but you must append it. > (hmmm, would this mean the first block would be a fragment - would it even > work ?) > > Anyone for O_CYCLIC ? You *could* do it, if you were extent or log based. See the VIVAFS paper; get it from the University of Kentucky, or from the proceedings of usenix (ftp.sage.usenix.org). In reality, I'm thinking of wtmp, and making sire the file starts on a wtmp record boundry. Short of defining file-specific truncators, I think you are SOL. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 10:03:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA26780 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA26774 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA00168; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:50:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141750.KAA00168@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: unused variable in su To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:50:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, davidn@unique.usn.blaze.net.au, hackers@freebsd.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <199701140347.OAA20727@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 14, 97 02:47:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about using functions strancpy(), ..., asnprintf() that abort > if the string is too long? This would be better than silently > truncating the string. It would also take less code for the > strncpy() case since null trermination would be guaranteed (else > abort). You can get the same effect using strncpy(), and presetting the terminal value in the buffer to 0, then comparing for 0 following the strncpy... ie: char mybuf[ SOMELEN]; mybuf[ SOMELEN - 1] = 0; strncpy( mybuf, src, SOMELEN); if( mybuf[ SOMELEN - 1] != 0) { /* abort ...*/ } This works because of the side-effect "...and not terminating dst if src is more than len characters long." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 10:09:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA27128 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:09:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA27123 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA00177; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:54:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141754.KAA00177@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: truss, trace ?? To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:54:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, stesin@gu.net, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199701141034.AA263998091@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> from "Hr.Ladavac" at Jan 14, 97 11:34:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There is a rather simple way to satisfy most of these semantic requirements: > replace the leading blocks with holes--the file grows in the length, lseek > works as expected, but write is only guaranteed to succeed if it > fails in the last part of the file, and the filesystem occupancy does not > increase. read succeeds always, but sometimes it returns a buffer full of > (leading) zeros. This works, until you realize that you run linearly forward through the log file. I assume you steal space in the inode to store the offset of the first valid block in the file? A log file may very well contain valid NULL data... indistinguishable from a zero-fill block coming from the read of a hole. This does not address log files with internal structure boundries that do not allign to disk block boundries. Like wtmp. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 14 10:26:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28304 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA28282 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00219; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:13:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199701141813.LAA00219@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading from 2.2-Alpha to 2.2-Beta To: gambert@cftnet.com (Allen W. Gambert) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:13:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Allen W. Gambert" at Jan 14, 97 11:13:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm currently running 2.2-Alpha and am experiencing some problems domain > name resolution. I'm not sure exactly where the problem lies and i'm > wondering if upgrading to 2.2-Beta will fix the problem. > > When i'm not my 2.2-Alpha system and type > > telnet www.mcafee.com > > I get > www.mcafee.com: Unknown host > > But when I use dig to lookup the name it comes back fine with no > problems. If I add the IP address of this host to my /etc/hosts file > telnet works fine. > > Other than this bug I've had no problems running 2.2-Alpha and look > forward to moving to 2.2-Release. > > Is anyone aware of this problem? Will upgrading to 2.2-Beta fix this > problem? If I do upgrade to 2.2-Beta can I just download all the > source and just recompile it or should I use the fixit floppy and upgrade > this way? This is a change in the bind code; it now enforces standards which everyone is already required to comply with, but which they frequently do not. The cannonical name of "www.mcafee.com" is "sc_axp2.mcafee.com"... According to RFC1035: | | ::= | " " | ::=