Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:51:15 +0200
From:      cpghost <cpghost@cordula.ws>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Erase memory on shutdown
Message-ID:  <28e094e6-d425-7367-4519-0ae72da54901@cordula.ws>
In-Reply-To: <915020aa-65ba-7b8c-8676-40e41dc77c0a@kicp.uchicago.edu>
References:  <20180805150241.1E186200349F8E@ary.qy> <4e70e969-14f7-c65d-96d2-dd1610499cd0@irk.ru> <63033.108.68.162.197.1533484522.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <faff1533-41c9-63a1-1c66-45c194cae140@cordula.ws> <915020aa-65ba-7b8c-8676-40e41dc77c0a@kicp.uchicago.edu>

Next in thread | Previous in thread | Raw E-Mail | Index | Archive | Help
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms060304070202020500010000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 08/10/18 17:24, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On 08/10/18 09:08, cpghost wrote:
>> On 08/05/18 17:55, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>>> Another route could be encryption of RAM on-the-fly while system runs=
, yet
>>> it is questionable where the encryption key itself is kept to be
>>> unaccessible for the attacker in the attack above, and boot of such s=
ystem
>>> may require warm body present.
>>
>> What about SEV?
>>
>> https://developer.amd.com/amd-secure-memory-encryption-sme-amd-secure-=
encrypted-virtualization-sev/
>> https://github.com/AMDESE/AMDSEV
>=20
> I personally am an opponent of the other processor in my machine that h=
as almighty access to my machine, can access external hosts via the same =
physical network connection though not controllable by me, the sysadmin o=
f the machine (or machine owner). It sounds to me that it is in the same =
general direction as Intel ME.

You're right. Basically, it's all about Trusting Trust[1], all over again=
,
but now on hardware/firmware. And what's worse: who can audit the crypto,=

when done on a closed proprietary hardware design?

But still, if we talk about encrypting memory, hardware-assists like thes=
e
where the (ephemeral) keys are kept in some hidden CPU registers that cle=
ar
much faster than (cold) DRAM/SRAM seems like a practical way to make
cold boot attacks harder.

[1] https://www.archive.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thomps=
on.pdf

> Out of two bads I choose the lesser bad. Namely: the possibility of att=
ack by the bad guy who has physical access to my machine is lesser bad th=
an the possibility of attack through super-system which I have no way to =
modify, control, or turn off, that runs on another CPU, has control over =
my hardware that runs my system, and my system is a slave to that super-s=
ystem.
>=20
> Do you think it is your machine? No, it is their machine (whoever they =
are).
>=20
> There is one (small?) company that tries to rid of all proprietary code=
 and other means of control, thus giving the owner full possession of his=
 hardware ("impregnable" for third parties, be it even the main CPU manuf=
acturer):
>=20
> https://puri.sm/
> https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-ma=
nagement-engine/
>=20
> They also implement open source coreboot instead of proprietary EFI or =
BIOS. And they do not have in their hardware anything that requires avail=
able as binary only "firmware" or "microcode". So, they use famous Athero=
s WiFi, but they never use working great but running proprietary firmware=
 Intel WiFi.

Good to know. Thanks for the pointer!

> I'd like to hear if anyone knows about similar efforts by other compute=
r manufacturers.
>=20
> Sorry, this went a bit off the original point (but not quite off of it)=
=2E
>=20
> Valeri

-cpghost.


--------------ms060304070202020500010000
Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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=
--------------ms060304070202020500010000--



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?28e094e6-d425-7367-4519-0ae72da54901>