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Date:      Wed, 18 May 2011 08:46:38 +0200
From:      Bernhard Froehlich <decke@bluelife.at>
To:        Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@komquats.com>
Cc:        freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Future direction of virtualbox-ose port on FreeBSD
Message-ID:  <b2827568fabe0d7db6b1ce4389f80165@bluelife.at>
In-Reply-To: <201105171936.p4HJah1F053940@cwsys.cwsent.com>
References:  <201105171936.p4HJah1F053940@cwsys.cwsent.com>

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On Tue, 17 May 2011 12:36:43 -0700, Cy Schubert wrote:
> In message <4DA6AD3D.7040607@mittelstaedt.us>, Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
>> On 4/13/2011 4:38 AM, Bernhard Froehlich wrote:
>> > Hi VirtualBox users.
>> >
>> > I'm sending this because there are a few problems in how we currently
>> > maintain the emulators/virtualbox-ose ports on FreeBSD. I want to
>> > outline my main concerns and propose a better way to solve that.
>> >
>> > The VirtualBox port is already very critical for many users and very
>> > complex at the same time so it gets harder and harder to update the port
>> > to new major versions without getting too much negative feedback from
>> > users. In the past we did a call for testers when upstream released a
>> > new major version (3.1.0, 3.2.0, 4.0.0) and got the update in the tree
>> > after their first patch release (3.1.2, 3.2.2) but now for the 4.0
>> > release cycle we need at least to wait for 4.0.6 to get a useable state.
>> >
>> > Because of this long delay more and more people are using the cft and
>> > our development ports. We do not want that average users use that ports
>> > just to get to a newer version because they contain additional risks and
>> > are usually unstable versions (no support, irregular updates, broken
>> > ...). But we also do not want to make it harder for our testers to
>> > provide feedback because your feedback is very valuable to us and we
>> > need each tester we have.
>> >
>> > So we currently have these problems:
>> > 1) we need a stable version around if you hit a problem at the new
>> > version
>> > 2) we need to get new major versions out earlier to testers
>> > 3) we need to attract more testers
>> >
>> >
>> > We could solve this problems with "unstable" ports and people can use
>> > them if they care about it but we don't have that infrastructure in
>> > FreeBSD yet. We could also create -devel ports but that only solves one
>> > part of the problem and generates an huge amount of work on our side.
>> > Our internal -devel ports are most of the time built with "trunk" code
>> > so more or less alpha quality code. So that's not going to fly either.
>> >
>> >
>> > Instead we came up with two improvements:
>> > 1) Before a major version hits the tree we do a repocopy with the
>> > current version. So in case you have a problem with the major version
>> > you can fallback to the old version. It will be marked DEPRECATED with
>> > the next major update and removed 2 months after that. Major updates for
>> > vbox are 3.1.x, 3.2.x, 4.0.x
>> >
>> > 2) We provide binary packages and PBIs for virtualbox when we do a Call
>> > for Testers and probably also on a regular basis to lower the burden to
>> > test it. That only works for FreeBSD releases because the kernel module
>> > needs to be build for a specific kernel. So if you use a STABLE kernel
>> > you won't benefit from that.
>> >
>> > That means for us that we can bring in a new major version a bit
>> > earlier than now but we will continue to do extensive testing first. So
>> > you will still not see a .0 release in the ports.
>> >
>> >
>> > What do you think about it? Any better ideas?
>> >
>>
>> I vote for binary releases for the testers.  From a test standpoint
>> there is a huge benefit for you guys to have everyone running
>> the same build, built the same way.  Currently FreeBSD development
>> snapshots are released binary, this isn't much different.
>>
>> Granted you may have some testers with weird systems setup that
>> won't like it, but they can always keep the last RELEASE kernel around
>> and boot their system on it temporarily for testing purposes only.
>>
>> Anyone running vbox in production is very likely NOT testing
>> on their production servers.  Ideally they are imaging their
>> production boxes and booting the image on a spare box and testing
>> on that - so worrying about fallback is kind of pointless - if the
>> new version doesn't work, then they don't need to fall back
>> to a prior one.
> 
> Would it be possible install by default vbox 4.0.x into an alternate 
> LOCALBASE, allowing users to at least try the new vbox without having to 
> uninstall the old?

No. You cannot load both kernel modules at the same time so installing
both is a bad idea. Custom LOCALBASE should be possible (it works on
PC-BSD after all) but it could cause some troubles because of their
hardening (they check the path of the suid binaries).

-- 
Bernhard Fröhlich
http://www.bluelife.at/



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