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Date:      Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:55:19 +0200
From:      Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>
To:        Gary Kline <kline@thought.org>
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Robert Bonomi <bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com>
Subject:   Re: OT: how to tell when i've hit a Fn key?
Message-ID:  <20111008095519.2dc180fb.freebsd@edvax.de>
In-Reply-To: <20111007190129.GA21584@thought.org>
References:  <20111007095620.8b78e334.freebsd@edvax.de> <20111007190129.GA21584@thought.org>

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On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 12:01:29 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> 	i still have a few mile--maybe lightyears--to go, but
> 	slowly...slowly this is coming back.  when ken arnold was
> 	working on the early versions of curses i was
> 	still learning C.  i dont remembr any arrow keys on the old
> 	AMD3a terms so wasn't that interested in things-termcap.

The UNIX termcap representation differs from what programmers
of DOS time (not _that_ DOS, the other one) can remember. So
relying on NCurses is the optimal way to go, as it proves to
be most portable across UNIX and the various Linusi.



> 	but what i'm doing with my clicky-keys for those FEW of use
> 	who like feedback =proves= that, yes, there are new and
> 	interesting uses for curses.  :_)  

Oh yes, there _are_ interesting uses for (n)curses. :-)



> 	i have writeen the rough draft of a curses [or Ncurses]
> 	test program that gets rid of the rat-a-tat-tat WAV response 
> 	whenever i hit a non-std key.  say "home" or up-arrow, or
> 	F12 or Scroll Lock.  how long it will be before i've joined
> 	this test program with my kclick stuff is unknown.  maybe 45
> 	mins, maybe 75 years. [[that's IFF they've got programming
> 	in hell]]

They have. Never wondered where "Windows" comes from? :-)



> 	**Change-of-topic:
> 
> 	the GUI editor that has vi bindings is kate.  unfortunately,
> 	kate has no abbrevs.   i asked the principal developer about
> 	that.  no answer.  his site has a .de suffix.  (i was
> 	wondering if he doesn't speak english.  he may be like me, 
> 	a linguistic dimwit.  then again, he may not think much of
> 	my idea.  or overwhelingly busy... .)

Programmers with no English skillz... hard to believe, but well,
in our modern times of "rapid application development" and layers
of layers of abstraction of libraries of layers of libraries of
abstraction of (cont. ad naus.) it wouldn't be a big surprise. :-)



> 	anyway, for now, i think having a GUI editor that the speech
> 	disabled can use to have their computer speak what they type
> 	is better than using something like vim/gvim. 

Depends. When moving a mouse pointer or chasing across a full-sized
keyboard gets complicated (e. g. with limited movement of arm),
the "vi concept" may be superior, especially when the user does
more than just writing some few sentences, say he writes a complete
document (letter, essay, book); in this case, _not_ having too
much shift/alt/ctrl layers could be a benefit. Of course I do
acknowledge that using this approach requires learning and
training. Those who use vi on a regular basis do know this.

The strength of the "vi concept" is that the letter keys and
the "mode switch" Esc basically can do all the stuff other
editors need Ctrl-something, Alt-something, click-something
for - which can be hard to do under specific circumstances.



> the One
> 	Laptop per Child bunch are still interested.  their device
> 	has a membrane kybd.  i have heard that the keys are
> 	somewhat hard to use.  

That's typical for lowest-end keyboards. Remember IBM's PCjr?
Also came with a weird keyboard. Today, you need to stick to
old keyboards (and adapters DIN -> PS/2 -> USB -> ?) when you
intendedly want a _good_ keyboard. :-)

The membrane keyboards often lack a usable tactile feedback
(as touch-interfaces do), so they might not be 1st choice in
every place.



> 	IF there is another GUI editor that has builtin
> 	abbreviations that you guys know of, please senf up some
> 	smoke signals:)

Abbreviations are a _professional_ feature, while GUI editors
do not seem to cater the kind of users who _want_ those features,
they are not the primary target group. The result: Some GUI
editors even have limited keyboard support, expecting a
continuous "click & wait" flow.

Summary: Depends.



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...



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