From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 26 06:57:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C322CD36B for ; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:57:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic307-53.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic307-53.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 498zH65Rzzz43Zm for ; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:57:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: ixjbgAIVM1n63sYs.xhbfxbZHXmK7dbQQKPy8w7wZvawj9CyabmvlImqcg7pDIG Bhyo8WexvQz.NDPay6nZMb2cFKaKVAXy3BWqShxgAAzGPCDeMcnF0FAEC7YGIl2ZsbBnjnh9GDyP ajgWoCN9Ztn3Y.Ij.G6UV.8eh50dwMOOyPbs63fisCQWNwTgnWai5hSGld97B77wEQpNdwm9V_yY FufHB4Al0plYZ1AQF1F4Ykye176HXd2w.k5zGxpQoStTUz7MgaQ4z1dr7gJqwpA55E360pYK6Jn9 U6zorotyhCskhVpqJAwAaCUrxOoBX1fXGGVqFZ5tSivRwayxtvui4aa04znh_P8aoEDBEyT5RW3v JjQbaUTBcHWIDIw0aanfo2S0g2NPFoBIz5wzTObs2uCstBp7eQqaDVMLAl7T9Wk60hi9xl2ezU_H lpGkXMXEd1zeljMselOCAemVNbOG98hYqAVb1Ao3FY_EKL3rkH68uUbveAkrkxbI_2HCHYwdcTob wDy39MUuGLnZcfQDhE4T3ODjT3ev.vZwWAkqiu_VFOmVuNjjOM2huQVCn.XvMal3.VjGLfXmg.Sz wcHXdWH9OShQcUUfKIlbI.gbXOANkzFxrxVZpsrm4yjke3zuThyDOtKxfE0D7ecpUA1rqYmRKwNG 8ZY1oK40bjSHm2JB5VAybnzCld0xBfZg0YixXTQEnxNLdEqUIJSWvinF7WnuKaG6vrXYo7f0lkRB G8MPSPT_zgZUevdJeGnYV6VE3aZmVyYdOwlIRUL4v4mXLSdfgDUDeXU8FFWcOeL5rxq4lNuduiwr kZxX_OSZEgrqbNLrhEIRAOVqUsbM7bVvps1YgGxlVAxqq4EtStn.krLbGVqxWnLMrz7d3NFjwd3V 8WoBXg3cMTPBxafrc.IkUYGYoxmm1a2zefQastCtCwkcDomyv5sk654qTZVJ_Ol6egl9PF8TQi4G KfZXv1pehBhCZeg5lTO2ce9XvNeG_BXvVB3hyWidGnD8hCQZ6FcmZ3N9s8pmnpmkzRBN63ClNf63 OSD8JKxGP3cRYuMo5uxHFgt0QoZRZMpRu6PJo3f4oGwR1XNSAntJD6eoABNhefCihi9Hh4_m3zm. dRwp8THSgNr4zpLkWTfVuJLfi.uG7haJCiMiAD5K_Qo2DErc0hiiMNgQNXabM2z1Oa9.BAKCiAr5 oLakjQJr9TU_MNsGVQ_kbM80.bFibsD07Vx2MCqMovZMsSxcDBe7XNgMO06y.bvfCJNbRGxgQmFh ctocQyURG6TsBoHAGhIThXOy7QKjnbK94aPEg3nomlbHPg2GC0pp6ParRkGmJy93wOpDAZkXeE7p MTsp8tLWU.LfjzjUGYb9zKJL3Ci.MhwKQgmBINdlBGOiLikBujQtQSt6aEEggw3K8XkBLONqxjgx 1JefkLBNyiIkprdIcD9DtWG9DRajHxw9Cm9WXoYhJR7eQhNagAjW3AwMc848rn6WjyuG3 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:57:03 +0000 Received: by smtp412.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c3e9909f318a101797d4cb1e1e51e6a7; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:57:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 08:57:05 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD live USB stick Message-ID: <20200426085705.0838e5c9@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <503ac059-c4a5-d618-9b85-e154339e1f36@holgerdanske.com> References: <4ccdd6e57db9817c48ff492cb82361ebe820cf86.camel.ref@rocketmail.com> <4ccdd6e57db9817c48ff492cb82361ebe820cf86.camel@rocketmail.com> <503ac059-c4a5-d618-9b85-e154339e1f36@holgerdanske.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 498zH65Rzzz43Zm X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.72)[-0.722,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.89)[-0.887,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[30.110.248.87.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (4.24), ipnet: 87.248.110.0/24(2.31), asn: 34010(1.66), country: GB(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 06:57:09 -0000 On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:52:06 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >After the 128 GB Ultra Fit failed, I shopped around for high-endurance=20 >USB flash drives. These are hard to find, especially in larger >capacties. > > >I did find one OEM that makes industrial flash devices in various=20 >capacities and form factors, including USB: > >https://www.cactus-tech.com/products/industrial-grade/usb-flash-drive/ > > >Unfortunately, Cactus Technologies is an OEM and does not sell into=20 >retail channels. I contacted them, and they offered to sell me two 16=20 >GB drives (USB 2.0?) for $39 plus shipping with a lead time of 5 weeks=20 >ARO (if not in stock). > > >STFW 'industrial usb flash' there are a few other manufacturers and/or=20 >distributors. > > >The MacBook Pro has an SD Card slot. SanDisk high-endurance microSD=20 >cards are readily available, so I went with that: > >https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/memory-cards/sandisk-high-enduran= ce-uhs-i-microsd#SDSQQNR-032G-AN6IA > > >SanDisk also makes a "max endurance" model: > >https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/memory-cards/sandisk-max-enduranc= e-uhs-i-microsd#SDSQQVR-032G-AN6IA > > >STFW I see that some people put these into USB adapters and use them >as live drives. If you run embedded systems with SD/ microSD slots=20 >(Rasperry Pi, etc.), this might be a better way to go. Hi David, in a German forum consensus is SD + USB adapter over USB stick, too [1]. For testing purpose I'll not cancel the order of the Toshiba 32 GB USB stick [2], read 150 MB/s, 11.50 =E2=82=AC including shipping costs [3]. Regards, Ralf [1] https://www.bsdforen.de/threads/freebsd-auf-usb-stick.33407/#post-289988 [2] https://direkt.jacob.de/produkte/toshiba-u365-32gb-thn-u365k0320e4-artnr-43= 10729.html?utm_source=3Didealo&utm_medium=3Dcpc&utm_campaign=3DPreisverglei= ch&ref=3D109 [3] https://www.dict.cc/?s=3Dlehrgeld ;) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 14:58:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0BA2BB0BC for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499nvr1v7Yz48dZ for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:58:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 03REw5fg030438 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:58:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Andrea Venturoli Subject: Cannot debug over serial line Message-ID: <438dfa76-6dc3-dbe5-5a28-c6217ffb1e3a@netfence.it> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:58:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499nvr1v7Yz48dZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=netfence.it; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ml@netfence.it designates 2.44.121.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ml@netfence.it X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.68 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:2.44.121.52]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[netfence.it,none]; IP_SCORE(-1.88)[ip: (-8.82), ipnet: 2.44.0.0/16(-4.41), asn: 30722(3.80), country: IT(0.03)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30722, ipnet:2.44.0.0/16, country:IT]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:58:17 -0000 Hello. I've got a couple 12.1 system where I've set up remote GDB, by following chapter 10.4 of the developer's handbook. However, after I enter DDB (either with boot -d or Ctrl-Alt-Esc), as soon as I type "gdb" the system locks. Remote cannot connect and Ctrl-C doesn't exit GDB mode (as it says it should). Any hint? bye & Thanks av. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 20:01:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10B92C43C5 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:01:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499wdW689Xz4XdN for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03RK1BnZ043160 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:01:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03RK1Bhv043159 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:01:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:01:11 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: questions list Subject: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499wdW689Xz4XdN X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.06), asn: 7018(1.16), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.46)[0.457,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:01:20 -0000 Hi, What is the best way to update a system from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? This system is a backup file server that I could reinstall if necessary, but I'd really like to avoid having to do that. Any tips/ideas on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Bob -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 20:15:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD7B2C4926 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:15:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@osfux.nl) Received: from vm1982.osfux.nl (vm1982.osfux.nl [79.99.187.212]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499wxq4yvTz4YgV for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:15:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@osfux.nl) Received: from vm1982.osfux.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vm1982.osfux.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F3C2011B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:15:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none shortcircuit=no X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.3 Received: from [192.168.9.195] (unknown [95.174.67.156]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by vm1982.osfux.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:15:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> From: Ruben Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:14:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499wxq4yvTz4YgV X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[osfux.nl:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[osfux.nl:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[osfux.nl,reject]; IP_SCORE(0.18)[asn: 8315(0.85), country: NL(0.03)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8315, ipnet:79.99.184.0/21, country:NL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:15:29 -0000 Hi, If you are not compiling your own kernel I normally go about it something like this: freebsd-update -r 12.1-RELEASE upgrade freebsd-update install shutdown -r now freebsd-update install You will be prompted to reinstall installed software now. If you do not use the ports collection: pkg update (this probably throws some errors about a major version update being detected) pkg-static install -f pkg ; pkg upgrade -fy If you do use the ports collection: portmaster -m DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes -Raf --no-confirm (I always found it convenient to do a full update / upgrade of the portstree _prior_ to switching to 12.1) After reinstalling the installed software, you can issue: freebsd-update install shutdown -r now You should be on 12.1 now. Needless to say; you are advised to make backups / prepare contingency plans :) Regards, Ruben On 4/27/20 10:01 PM, Bob Willcox wrote: > Hi, > > What is the best way to update a system from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? This system > is a backup file server that I could reinstall if necessary, but I'd really like to > avoid having to do that. > > Any tips/ideas on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. > > Bob > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 21:31:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88562C6B7F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499ydy4J5Yz3Clj for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D02129F48 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:290b:583e:f62b:d7fb]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 171F517EDC for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:31:48 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/171F517EDC; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> From: Matthew Seaman Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 3A3m3u8bdsFp40DlIrBtSByVjqERxcfhphrEB4J8BXHUG7OAtXkZMlW/PGKDwXJq0O6Z5Tcg YHAoEiSWbXiexHgXNJyP+sqnIlhLWhSJGeJ+C83wqI6oYlZUCW00NkPxcIHnQPV/z+5wQVci TMyaWC2YCIHz4Ljs+TnwWMz0E8PNFDfHVbQ0W4PRGV7gRAqxfL+yKufauIEGbEq8rNDbSwL3 bcUCxR4ZDlaUEUwT4J8naf7rjdgiEYHs2Ig3jeK1+ER4FPG1sQARAQABtCRNYXR0aGV3IFNl YW1hbiA8bWF0dGhld0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEKAD4CGwMFCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsFFgMC AQACHgECF4AWIQRyz6whebywJLW1RZADb2ye5/OevwUCWttU6gUJDFmAlAAKCRADb2ye5/Oe v7D/EACF6YL98cq6u20rai9gDCS+XY7HDGxowreE2HTAZXQmJTatSaEgiJMJUXfjXn7U/L+q zFhjOC2kiOze1yIWrptoxFa29lSUi3jWHNv7BM2bA4i7jjtwR8Ep2wSvDDl99jewDc6Ewot4 p598S5tZt4my9yGLeaCiN44IPg4U2ftnjcoONtrBOVyIHvVK5QL5r+wyqfdlySbAs026kJAZ rkwAL2ZVy3m1xNSmM8MojwSeX/5puv5JG2FoFb+VphZKCpgaqoEAN2jCqoJW9nnbAth1bYiM djiVr+k8pQl4CltFgpzSKxGbxXUSdPmEpA67FsV0BLIq5xy5VkvzoM+SD1hd3EQgfCyvFlf5 ClSwb5aQRf9ZqiyFAkVEtEOgF7S9q7H6MHyVFzrLfGzmTdpzu7jCCoYbZ7dX1aniatAxLKl6 EBgZxtLRu5bqalguv0FV1C8qnGLuvUMqp8RoJzLd8sWBGMTsUl/GOf+cEZl5u0q9vg9pBJxg KLi2NX3V4Bk8vkOUJFuk8ll7kRQ/7rrGLBkZNfcadb970jB5bvsxMhoc9P/2dIa1YzsGnqbE vG+JrZ2475hvs1jPZ/gdLWEcquGAhGjekfArLBbagqfo6gsuHnUD1K+HfVGQBkKJl+lNhbOR guHGT5hx/4RSYBVakz1RpM5dnk271lH0LxWeE4okSrkCDQRSUUKTARAAt6FH3HbDFoumOWUu JlDgOQs3wdp2n3IKv7gqzbDdgaoWW7hDTvjO0Cb6p2PGUKEoxMQQoIdDO0pQ9rgr4Sh4VSVC 9WMO/fUwqdrIs2nACIg4OwvNhIccW08S+N72f+yuXWOQ/dv79cwruE26/BEXgIP09MYcOWwc UCXzOoUR3er+jzcsN9uFjcsBVUJLIEru1askHRzCUa5P9S9GAFBwN49HC5IJWEzdLP27FjjO G5UG3+QZahHrjG1i6S3bIYXtaGsqNyfkp9Is7Wpj2kk+s9Ua+YMG/V5YVlbANIexa1yr75p1 W9biqXpCWnB3TaHSfI0G1t9w8K2qhR/Z1/YLIcRzZ2aHJnvbzJYw5Cs1jfNpFytbASsxj0rb ReouftlBvVWFRxsZ+oG1ZXL64/SVKMZAnfBNxd1uajp+HtoQtYoTu88la6zcdnAhOD5JdOnt N2VF8iQnDfPgkidfuSZ1C059xaRPTSRJBgMRDtOlDxgz7Pxx/7L2jwxRY1dq6NGioflY7CCp Gc7bi1K6xnf3lBL8X2nGpRAVsg9Lx1ShIWkgNbTAcPXpXcXlJ1xqz8HS8Twadh6gIfk/RNch BIED9lkVCKHYp/XQb8T8vMwn/kTWUm5WlPkQUFQN4D1b6+dJw4bwn/wiRS8did1MU1OytJB6 tljfEUCx0uKkzqr+33MAEQEAAYkEuwQYAQoAJgIbAhYhBHLPrCF5vLAktbVFkANvbJ7n856/ BQJa21VJBQkMUG42AonBvSAEGQEKAGYFAlJRQpNfFIAAAAAALgAoaXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3Rh dGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0Yz MDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp5OdNFg//ZqeVdGoKkMvALPzZjGz84+6l0kcM xSN4TfWmec0YpSmDEzCw4/SZoGqHlZb8lcTevmNrNXg6c+wVw6P+Ycl20Nzb98Kt9C5sz+zG VmPPK+3O9gaPnEqlIKnnbxKXXNHQdd8Mf0UTpifMqX0IkWOqhe/tQKGoQ9+feKvLIaToIe/N josW6vJ9YAgFqZ0015zwbElhMNFmgDMOI2SgjBZ9ngP1U82Mqb7/7G9GxHtnwuJBSnPJgN8t av2O9uWPC0N8deyZBH4y9ERBPTFMc46wjkW030olcq7g4hZ55rpPIEyGQZCq4u1gGibbiQJZ EyUQT7BJm70/PeUr3uNjPlQODV/lF5TBvqGHEmlSQfo6Yb/QQx07CK9bvhUSO2XP3ybS8Jwo MZlgZzZcjiPiQF9ot6152/Cp/XrsKgtk+fg5ARZpyywRlQk1JCHRZvhgXIxqNYA04uwdPFcL I4vPiDaLS8mhXHLRZsSpHmIBqqrnam5Lq7iDc39UZrSJMM40oy3iAOI2B7AOCbzxRuEplJd3 E/tEqrnFGcPVN+h52ka74lEyfkwA2RrASWJJcXLN3/VsizEj8okepefzjU/UPnU8sirzeWWo 8Z4uKddovk//NwAPUJbee4vZLjYE6MWdpEoZP9CZXbtIPWuc9Djg16aHOgv44JPokDMaHA27 A4rw2KwJEANvbJ7n856/SPkP/1bGUde7lnRTNd8c0ZrUtEi+OOibKyh7BjLUpzlihj3rGl9l jAF0eCdBrL1We3MDDcyi+XO7VZLiecZTlG6LLXFvEFjYpyPRx3bXlWk1/ahEiBoLWxedseNd FrO+H5XX6ODmKFFLhXgpsXnAxtM6Mxmrx0CGW4qzfUi7Vsqj86gqlcet0/k5RqPMAhrGX5fN nQNWSAwumeFKM8UgDpKY0u7M2tS07B0ozXOSpqGTSJhX6Ld2Nl95CL3wbSGuh1pDUOysAnzK 5Rl/OQ9LtYpWomAKg6yn7gKYij5XmekAg/E+ybr5Gyx2PgMQUGtuNmBRWP1qKtVUbrOekiuN z7kpdrP7M2O7i/cxWjGpVtjDNWuGkFgY3c+sKKawBma81K4rg044nkGwFX98vfEHVGu+HOd3 D+Mv47nv4LQvzynBG/YflwaPmLhpw7HCPvpa4W7y8+5AKxDqWlM2NvrLwmwbmz9dQMGtjnNR m4uHfPX8AyzBoMtDrxNLIvDYlLqh+G2Q1shNNNdRNXn9Z1pvri6KAHmH9GlISuM/jQfItout +Gtx9QUlNX3aIsdScTLA3jnMOpHcALCGI+XMiBNaVuYUxHgHh+MNYhmjQZZqASBCvVj1Hyib DPZa/iQ4DBGBRlJb+8saPPqYVDQhosWSF20aJKwepZIIOFjpMgmCIqZAnqK4uQINBFJRQrgB EADUWFag56O3CaycayGght1rYWYz7P9/3s7OlqAuEAId8/kSz8jXzAb/Qb6t0247a2MD0gxn jgZQy2OiQOsOTrc31L6tUrLVATL5Q3oKIh9hOlNMA+cRjsgY3UmMaSw+Gftp64EJDBQwBXWT 7CSUEJw4PqzwMPiTHRkmqQfzdfNagFJVqZ0e+cznoLzI9WvkccwLW1kicBYEysX5yOXUQ9/P cKqRWcbxLFznJ16JsxL1DeUct5WRWUxECY2rM0t+AkNRa3NpzskiMUSzFhiGmJo9yyy1RS4d rjMhEn/IcM1sO21ZF/WWuUVkul65qngFnaFDDRQ5lU3AagWhLhmppmK/yabSVfqz38B1APoB WuldYprslTbAOJrL2xFtiH7m9VYbP2aGdwr9V/C27kiNWnm/lYzP9Z+dTFkxw2V+BOjiLWzD DD6pEE7YDhiPyoopadOyXtoJf3aK1OI+DBu3piBA/CDDDvavruM+3mjxUxcOo8w8rMaJzDUD LG0yOyhKWef3UW5ly3CKXe8+m/MZe0GavNBJt0ObLQpPmnn9b2kP/xS0ssszo8uzlfSMiGi9 AedAoRQ7vFXfI0MBb0M8gJ6Ht/+j1b5Al9ABeeA3PRuu+aBJwBRdFp4AV5BsCa0Qb3aqVJUP uBvtY56aWWB9sSfQ1qeu/loRxkJbHhaPJswscQARAQABiQI8BBgBCgAmAhsMFiEEcs+sIXm8 sCS1tUWQA29snufznr8FAlrbVUkFCQxQbhEACgkQA29snufznr+YBw//TJtAC9d/FYQQHKQg /QOEkcAL8Qx4HA2SICnhKqv64jPcYIUYocOO8Qayh+IVDa6MGkbsWdweUFuexMsW+17dqETf QjUApx32TUwF44WgIEfARLW2zRdRcXfsT4A2sQJCvNJrJnH3lywiJi+V848Q4sC3sSJREpcJ d07oc2jxSKZyYZ1DBPfK1MyiwcBt2uFCTXdyFMham2aYLDP2JYvFP08tjTUAIKhe4B0bPTtl dCf5sH5q8xrpaHnKHf0n7qMmK7NtGW/9R6WiCruiNsLnO95fms1tzKKfA4QXIYCEWl8XsRKw p51HZDjQu/KxPsjm6BL4eThnae9t3Zs5J0LiPxoFbN+pW7anft3YCeezB8+gus7I1Rn5yJMR yYRRVHtZZTBDQfoDqHgLY14GYtFGOT0IR/OuAzYM1CoMvVExgqVWixDwF5RH1OHO1TANqTGc rRm1lvasCWIphpoQVtkN4/PXGa+NhzsRmr/c5OUYxQNroE8cdsK8mOIBRz9D2JpF7d2nr1X+ vA4zk2JL61aCnc62BfSYNZWhCcOPJZUhFT9BqAkew0kkJzQ3jwHGAhfcfozTHoFsD08qAW0O UriEtH+EOXl+dYbjlNUjFPjJu49cZbtp/1TpsYOBdME1QLM1TPanYXa7tb+IrRZN+Oi9i9VV ym16DK7q21k3j0qRC0s= Message-ID: <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:31:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cSwEbdRgJY9sLkRBYgTWfkc4uR599Yn2o" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:31:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --cSwEbdRgJY9sLkRBYgTWfkc4uR599Yn2o Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pRn6IeipCPfPdOklt6fFRvYO9hNQWin7s" --pRn6IeipCPfPdOklt6fFRvYO9hNQWin7s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27/04/2020 21:01, Bob Willcox wrote: > What is the best way to update a system from 11.3-stable to > 12.1-stable? This system is a backup file server that I could > reinstall if necessary, but I'd really like to avoid having to do > that. If you're using ZFS and have sufficient spare space, it should be possible to use boot environments to allow upgrading to 12.1 while still keeping an easy backout path to 11.3. Failing that -- you say that the server is a file server. Do you happen to have a separate set of data disks that you write the file server content to, distinct from your system drives? In that case you could build a new 12.1 system on a spare drive and physically swap it into the machine. Or if you've got a mirrored system drive, you could split the mirror and build an upgraded system on one of the mirrors. Again, this gives you a relatively easy backout path if it all goes pear shaped. Failing either of those, I'd suggest creating a bootable USB stick to which you copy your important data -- passwd file, home directories, anything you've customized on the system and want to be able to re-create -- or just copy all of your root, /usr, /home partitions onto the memory stick if you have space. In principle, even if an attempted update renders your system unbootable, you should have enough on a live-system image to be able to recover. If you're careful, the file server content should be safe enough throughout this whole exercise. Although, obviously, make sure all this is not the only copy of your content, and that it is all duplicated elsewhere -- if this is the backup fileserver, presumably you also have a primary fileserver with the live copies of everything? As for how you do the actual upgrade -- just use whichever of the recognised means of upgrading the system works best for you. freebsd-upgrade(8) is a good choice. Although, if you're going to choose one of the routes that involves swapping HDDs in and out, then installing a brand new system and recreating your local customizations from scratch is quite a good approach. There's quantities of cruft that tends to build up over the years that this method will naturally get rid = of. Cheers, Matthew --pRn6IeipCPfPdOklt6fFRvYO9hNQWin7s-- --cSwEbdRgJY9sLkRBYgTWfkc4uR599Yn2o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAl6nT0NfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5OezUxAArZnT1KTcBD8DG4xHYfEDnLPqvNSjmBXGM6IKbiHKTngu6GcVrpkiDuqO Ie5aoO5GbWHDoYGt26QuMLyydArNKbl2F5zOrCQ9ITNNQgesAz8Ejofr+SffMHud iPeeAxacsrxtHCNqh17F3zIU8eC+ZbRfANS8OHoxpvSCiE1eTUmiN8xjL5TMNq8f v9GE72bsUn/tHdJa+N4x+j/L6OYeF/2CXh8LMOqGEMHOglIUkHHuZ7SNjJLxlBfg bIxmhcVe0vHj4tg1VXVU1TtI15LaaZRF0aO8EIz66TgISyDBLjSEG9VMErNhijT/ W7DI6To5ezdPMrPmi2GmMe8LiJtbH0LYFqFJDfh5oTzE8csoAc3FoF449rnkpwlr FConfzSxKFgGn2WIMvzbHbnJUeritOAdYD+hTk9paM8gJ491GpRRlk6h9wx8pW9E alDJh5hSNXJO5PnONZxMvoGqbuBEwzg/c68iTlyLUeyzJwTs4lOXyVp6UJOkXwtR j4VQ4BCLpB3Uryqpo5/MloJ80FC0kOIJZV5+UVwHKXl2FcXZ0RixiJvSyI6RTayl iQjzL00D33aO/MtKl65cYDmwsTjy9ih33pJgDIi7WPlHjraL1+Fe189OLF3DzzpR 80LMe87PB3Zt7ilUKcjty7kawauSxqllbJTTpjwoEKp8DWWUh+c= =2D4j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cSwEbdRgJY9sLkRBYgTWfkc4uR599Yn2o-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 21:41:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD4A2C722E for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:41:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499ysY2snnz3DyW; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:41:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.36.147]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MplsZ-1iqZu734mb-00qF4J; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Matthew Seaman Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-Id: <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:vjKlN81Pt6c4XicNYOlnQcqwJBRoj+zAO/nAXJpwBMjjy40tTP0 +kKu/dHaKoKv4g5NN6qiL3ZAlbCLI93Cr77qMc4WwEQ8bLj4dZXA3H3U7V80yHnUb/L/5WN tp+wykXfgwzCEyWBKhiWd8hNMJJcCpW8VQ4iAnc81r+p+z8OaoMLzKUCk+wFG53z3gSUvTo GXoMsnmDm4MV44jpmYBEQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Vop1/CXKYjg=:yiOJFfVzLu9v1q3qxrnQs7 wN9WBaX5CzS9vh21gIRFc9jDHaofaWklQ18QkpL6xqgnBCHgPrXDI1kyI2YgV+DwoeC/T8qnM bVRj/2oifcjc/5yNnevv05n6olpCkhcXh3RNoVhdJyWmGN2gd/4ilPto1LfkatDWCRzziZ/G4 cUk0l1aT12sgeLnYFlpxxqhyzOczTVjwD+XeUTWCynzBCCIMJkgiL64aiEjlzkL6np80Kuwjx kuIKFntFbr7o+zOgtcHedge0+iFjbqSGHxZIhXyOqr7igZ30X4dNTOX4xWO+WjWyxbSaSlaRH NereMCveKiQnqy1j6zBPUA3LLxr6rgWPwdvl9G7tibyjqhwTg9qStRZCYLkaCJyeQKA+pfyxd LTgh8Ad5HCBJiYraLdTx0t87UOBtB3DPJApKGeyKphvM1U8XoPa+6FSZT0GETU/cdg7ru33dd WQ5md2brbqAcHzntDZwwZ3E2FK9qnfpIuQS+rvmUMjC5Ty34BhgvaBR7vB8UuYOc0CqOuzfzc KASsC5NjRtfS3GdCuCtp+r2kmI0e6kkku07JA1p3J/x1NrFwn8Gn8OAPBDPbEu1xjUL2TTGNg CJ7nuHAJD0sdn1vVRo3hqkdRHOYbm6mFEuupNcAtPUc6knHpUOYvK/bEoQEJO2Mpzrf6eg4xS XZ3Fmr1+w4RJ6mWqXlPNE9GFKUL2/flrOCnJURCaQol/D649b6OFfJ3afm6vLVOUAq07OcnAW psz436GgUlOuc98Gz1sQl0qtcbkSRvWWSxqJ3crTHiBthzbYEFh7NGl+U3HeYCNvW7n1WqPRG 72XOUsCXRTkQ+ugFnsIRfObQzcL9y7v/mTmQyrP6icsPlMj9XKg0QuIpE0uOvTsydPEfLqS X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499ysY2snnz3DyW X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:41:53 -0000 On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:31:46 +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote: > Although, if you're going to > choose one of the routes that involves swapping HDDs in and out, then > installing a brand new system and recreating your local customizations > from scratch is quite a good approach. There's quantities of cruft that > tends to build up over the years that this method will naturally get rid of. I think that is a very important aspect. In case you have a "grown system", it might be possible that you will be building or re-installing stuff that you _now_ don't need anymore. For example, if your server runs application A, the version used on 11.3 required libraries B and C. The current version of A doesn't need B anymore, but you still will have it installed because it was installed before. To avoid such a case, and if you can and _want_ to do it, you can install a clean system from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as they are needed. As it has been mentioned before, for ZFS systems, using a BE is very convenient. Installing on a second disk is also an option (so you'll always have a fallback "old state" system that you can activate in case of problems). But of course there is nothing wrong in using source-based upgrades or binary ones, and rebuild everything that was installed before. All those ideas have advantages and disadvantages, are possible or not possible, and you have to decide for your specific setting and intended use of the system. The single ultimate answer: It depends. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 22:00:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D8E2C7DB8 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:00:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499zGn0894z3GDr for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:00:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1588024817; x=1590616817; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=pcEEUqyfMJmpGneIivQ8ITK0DgCO+LLDXShb3MDdItI=; b=ThKbpLRqW6ZrpihfydtMZOiL3KznBwIHDVJyLI8iCXR0aFd/MAeV2c03fL4DPJmQo+LK0RfBUEt0jk6CvIPC8+WT+1/fNmt8m99WAJoP2wWDPwl+cxwWDhaobk8GH1zcFK3b46SOkHlq8o09kQhtq4ZFzf2OMXC6t3YbSWanUDc= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDNkZjE2NmQuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:00:06 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:00:05 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jTBnH-000M26-UN; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:00:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:00:03 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Polytropon Cc: Matthew Seaman , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-Id: <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499zGn0894z3GDr X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=ThKbpLRq; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.55 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.950,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20:c]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.931,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.22), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.31), asn: 7381(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003df166d.e8ba64e53cd2852581b433d85274af79@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:00:17 -0000 On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your > "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and > all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as > they are needed. Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list of packages to install. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 01:07:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D822CD3B6 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B3Qd43xgz41X9 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id s10so18652603iln.11 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:07:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Wu6ygXBVhiUhBhFWwmoo5Ww3kmQgWtsXpLs+jFS+N4E=; b=sfexSCRs+BWQ0HELKKXrENuNmR5fnD1UFumAtZaRKBzdommjfWmP6oCIan+37haJKa 4164Bg3M0af2rUjOr0tuMGGNI1AH3btcbEhN8ZMZ2Jh6U3dzuftF3efrTx6qpYilYiFT EFe8ZeyipvH+oE+jAhgCX9w1it/abnG4N0EDUdAEfc+cTltMjZyVs27EYA2KyYy7IIzk VSRwLAYiLL2qvV2B46yPWqirtqIQ4mu7Pre00BIbWu0hSmPK9zy3/nzf0QgLNZWk7PmY XpdwkRd45aKv8R3WV8sgz3wA6Tuia6ywiSUJ8Hyq5Dzt+z1Dmm0aJoSrxP3Wfuvo1eOA FIuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Wu6ygXBVhiUhBhFWwmoo5Ww3kmQgWtsXpLs+jFS+N4E=; b=AAceXflMU5fyF/r0PJYeJl3Mb8SPb55aRPbeQRWZ/15pZnZ7XUeFrPh0cwZ7R2a2pp mcpiFL99ISEcwPbXNn/9R5dbrMcGwf/w5KGhsVB4rw33CSPJKm6vtSPBbAA/BYBVx/cK jjmrxXDgcJTd1v19eZ49VWTCNNzwQiEnf3nLisb1rbQVRNcWGqGOtN65333ddHVFhnQA I0imCwpUY576JMKnEBodhvKaz102rTc6s4C7Ew7A5dfW559vPLcExBYb7nvqU6LaWvO+ tuWbdLpGFVxD3+gxTNFYFozA/wGrQnxfv6EmgsEPKH8JUC6lHsa1oSWCmLko8ZgfwqhN RH7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaLZxLk49eWbCCn2EEnqfMcQ4lIkuo15sUkH41ploLN6MoyHCOJ UX6ZTVhx3k7kRPijFY3CqWZ/Lx6epB5WsfAr8Zk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL3+WN7crvYzjHGX5P61dwxT3zwExCIS1ME5gXLrym78xiTEnfXdlt56SuEWqw78IkolPB4SApI8oaR4r+3Vjo= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5e16:: with SMTP id s22mr25210618ilb.81.1588036040352; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:07:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Daniel Feenberg Cc: Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49B3Qd43xgz41X9 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sfexSCRs; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::134 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; HAS_WP_URI(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.91), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:07:22 -0000 On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:24 AM Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2020, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > Looking around almost every major linux dist discourages NFS in favor of > > almost anything else for example here is SUSE's official manual on > network > > storage (never even mentions NFS directly as a primary option, only how > to > > manage the ACL's if your on a legacy NFS system): > > > https://documentation.suse.com/sles/12-SP4/single-html/SLES-storage/#part-net-storage > > > Perhaps we have been in a rut with our petabyte of data entirely accessed > over NFSv3, but looking at that web page I wonder if there isn't something > obsolete about it - after all, the majority of the hardware mentioned in > section 17.2 as being supported is IBM and SUN, and very little would be > available for purchase today. I know it has an April 2020 data at the top, > but still, it doesn't reflect our experience with Linux. All of our Linux > systems have excellent support for NFS, and have for 30 years or more. > > I wonder if the documentation is perhaps greatly removed from actual > practice. It is about remote block storage, NFS is about remote file > storage. > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. file. I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN (block storage): https://blog.storagecraft.com/object-storage-systems/ https://www.linode.com/docs/platform/block-storage/block-storage-use-cases/ https://www.raidinc.com/2019/12/file-block-and-object-level-storage-which-solution-is-best-for-your-organization/ https://www.hyperconverged.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/why-you-need-block-storage-in-a-hyperconverged-world.pdf If anything people seem to be recommending object over block and block over file.... one comment if iSCSI is such clusterF then object storage is even worse since it abstracts the physical location away where is block at least preserves that. > All our storage is FreeBSD, Freenas or Truenas. All our compute servers > are Linux. > > Daniel Feenberg > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 03:44:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E7A2AA632 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B6w42Vznz4BqQ for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:44:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id q10so18930017ile.0 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:44:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6MNPmn1J13W/7jKfw216aSQddSXzp/D4CqQK/S8I9Pg=; b=rFWngmtX3Z5o+lVmyOhvCeCur2WVqmr2pTyRwm60QgwJyn9Zj2kniboPY/PFnvPolN OZvxGLo/zKOm9Qckk9x8x6Ek+DropCgfGGiNlGxUdVIMlbwEjvKJn1D3A5q5/v9oEyD0 8QQaQVcaseKvnYPbtQ33lEZpnQOoFbUmKzJPQ9gkGlpkgK1FEiVyW5MFGhvlCIC0SCHF piCKA+dPfK4K66iOmNQr7zCJveV9ga+eyNvKYQzVX5ykqN/zB14q2SuVBQetNWcrLFln vzD4wyXRbT8ytDU4Efr516Rz3JCcBjbdAw/Xmr8dbMdbqPHAZmrukPzrJg8LxrlzONjv iEUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6MNPmn1J13W/7jKfw216aSQddSXzp/D4CqQK/S8I9Pg=; b=D2uKavKZIVZe7ofwcZDtfEacPTMoteXM9fvlMN33OAVYFFM/Zv2jkyPSRvFCbtHzdd 4KIez2vYdDTj9qk6WMreLbHV9COVxh+896efEu9Yt7pYexwlaXXNWyN7xhCWeDTZ4wNP JGVd/CrMwYr8E7olt/LDTVgTYoCY99c6Y+36lCqpdL3SMWgZQ28UffHFyCJ9ngHitPuJ SCEHQ9vNoy7u4yAsLGHh3YKaOSetYmd1Xzp5VT4gybINt7aIUrw8WR52ylCHNNeIzOMM oOt1nRYxczI7WOCY+X4i2FlbZOLVos37wJa7eThOkXyhKg/pnH7NuuV41amIS9uQ+edu ys0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puaz8kthBOUhSEtPHhpNT/QZljlTRvJHDxYRB+6gzMrK2T0CyrG4 zFa+FVU8h+APAnZjP54cKNmjevSnbL3t9t0EgUWDwNEJT9E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypImBypRl06W5MmxoC+wcZlQ9QySoiZM72hSjNoADUXtpK9Ala3G/u5tvgMYurZLS4a56xlVdSpntaYsj2sBJ0A= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5e16:: with SMTP id s22mr25643776ilb.81.1588045475245; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:44:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:44:24 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Best source code hosting service for java port To: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49B6w42Vznz4BqQ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=rFWngmtX; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-7.74), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:44:37 -0000 I am putting together a new java development tool port (unit testing) that I wrote under FreeBSD and want to know what the preferred file/source code hosting service is to use for making available from a widely known source. I have casually looked at github (don't have an account yet). Recommendations? -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 05:47:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86AA2ACD04 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:47:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B9fP5C56z4HVs for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1588052878; x=1590644878; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=TkKoU9ZB7yV0z2rXRi2hrYAJHaUhd4mP+wE+JHH5Dus=; b=VU7P439F8sH0L7kiTHuDKjJhejIwZ5ldrCppHaBwcfbvr080UUIJFeYKXWNOyyQd46+hWbro7QLAFBTBZSDGG0pqW2W9XIhDonYLMcAyWE0jGUdizJhAItiDLs13nTnqmEdxAr09OgDhglgkteoLKYD3ma57B/09P+S99LiNVmw= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDNlMzljMzYuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com (r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.179.12]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:47:53 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:47:52 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jTJ5z-000OH5-18; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:47:51 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:47:50 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Daniel Feenberg , Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200428064750.f71f7f9517473623786b267f@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49B9fP5C56z4HVs X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=VU7P439F; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.985,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.22), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.31), asn: 7381(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e39c36.3729811c07afbad774e0db09107a5019@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:47:58 -0000 On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 Aryeh Friedman wrote: > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. file. > I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN (block > storage): Both have their uses and both are used heavily in large scale storage (tens of petabytes upwards). As always requirements dictate the best solution. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 05:57:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE9B2AD06F for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:57:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x136.google.com (mail-il1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B9s22Qzpz4HtH for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:57:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x136.google.com with SMTP id x2so19143998ilp.13 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UEYzftiDbQAoEaQu8K+00EHu49hIzhuqvQ2TXv7jckc=; b=SA2/xWvhKvKqJEbneQDV2SIVgcixqgJbQRfJYfSBjTb8WpKvW2NxIbkpoYhSHr54+d +JeH0IYRrfkmlzMzSeDRHsSAoyAF5wp0ojoMX/+hyeVSe2DzKZ1DfW+4gDzQ/6bHcJt6 Os5S0Kt7LBFMvfGVEf7tuT/2FWec/z7v4EA2dbsh+aFSmgq4nzd4GamIsT+Y87mTaLfy jOK0qy7LowGAKm7+xme0B7PPuPegfrFKVugPsGpnn1KWGQnGW/zMBEGg2tBaRhTzfAW4 kIShjH87oQBoHFSxQkeMpIF2Ui8gUKja12Um+MMNOc/SVNElbwNnjMcjI+bWwmtCF9zI xVGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UEYzftiDbQAoEaQu8K+00EHu49hIzhuqvQ2TXv7jckc=; b=qRLq5bUsnojWUWQqiBrSxVHgIXhTOFVGTppGs49RO1WtAX1pkZsd9svuu6WZCxP7bX vBgf9hWYsSfHhSbfDu1jKydhQe75f24hRBKt3Vl0fFFV37FdCDpCZSDY++0midOyH7+U O15NVb6C1Yh1kyVsKKHBkRmsK5KdjNkkRE63sqjYaQR6v6uUOPnmE/MHph3CffWsp/tD jq7KtMgp6OHZxjR4w9X42vPi24sMBLmmezgY2f5lttLnnY0wVLucHJ0WjuhFPxyMsIp8 m0yu70Ak49lPZan5nyHGU0yCIl+uoD2HVpk4PZDy9RyJF06nhQuMKUx7AtzjzFJxpgV4 Mx8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaQT2WI9W0uoa6q6HNifFvFqlfKZySkVl3T1L59dFw1KDOiRRov R+kaOkJa7Bhhchl59RjQeD6/fQmqTbG4GFplJCE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL5yZWqnuG8B3fKzSdKnYSSboKM56xZ9qzhry0Klrm0UAvF6aW9VvROBJShTISgwkzQaEtL/rjBs3XWCjjEokU= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d186:: with SMTP id z6mr23892150ilz.119.1588053429132; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> <20200428064750.f71f7f9517473623786b267f@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200428064750.f71f7f9517473623786b267f@sohara.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:56:57 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: Daniel Feenberg , Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49B9s22Qzpz4HtH X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SA2/xWvh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::136 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.53), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:57:11 -0000 On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:47 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. file. > > I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN (block > > storage): > > Both have their uses and both are used heavily in large scale > storage (tens of petabytes upwards). As always requirements dictate the > best solution. > > The point with OpenStack is the choice should of been left to the user/admin instead they just out of the blue decided everything must be iSCSI (even local storage is presented as iSCSI lun's to the hypervisor) and thus made it impossible to power reset unless very eleborate shutdown procedures are performed (not possible is the reset is due to power failure). Thus making it impossible to use outside of a data center.... the entire point of this subthread was to show that OpenStack picked wrong and did so based on standard recommendations in the Linux community at the time (2013-2014) and that those recommendations where/are still being made and are demonstrably wrong. The other main point was to show why source distrubtion is better then binary distrubtion (if OpenStack was available in easy to compile source form [which is and was not] it would of been trivial to do a after market patch to not require iSCSCI) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 06:25:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75092ADBB3 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BBV415y2z4K2S for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1588055148; x=1590647148; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=rMMPMLUxCYP6oSFKOTfgGmLf31ogjLWecuo4sitr048=; b=YcqIfJeLapBSuKeSJE9a3EGifpVEC9PFc53shUGNvXz8P3YNtW1yMSC+eEKO6XTrdZtcDfdUuWSQIByFKpcbQp5Ids42LGluiPh31hXHHcGWcJvc1sJPB7zFqvXDQWfvCPLlFw97Ay9dVnrJQmylMAoBTbBxoVLWm0+of3maD4o= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDNlM2I3OTcuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com (r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.179.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:38 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:37 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jTJgV-000OP3-Q0; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:25:35 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:25:35 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Daniel Feenberg , Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200428072535.c6ec1b898471d20728bb0cce@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> <20200428064750.f71f7f9517473623786b267f@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BBV415y2z4K2S X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=YcqIfJeL; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.948,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.22), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.31), asn: 7381(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:48 -0000 On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:56:57 -0400 Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:47 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith > wrote: > > > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 > > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. > > > file. I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN > > > (block storage): > > > > Both have their uses and both are used heavily in large scale > > storage (tens of petabytes upwards). As always requirements dictate the > > best solution. > > > > > The point with OpenStack is the choice should of been left to the > user/admin instead they just out of the blue decided everything must be Yep such choices should always be left to the admin as long as they are real choices, which AFAICS this is. > the entire point of this subthread was to show that OpenStack picked wrong > and did so based on standard recommendations in the Linux community at the > time (2013-2014) and that those recommendations where/are still being made > and are demonstrably wrong. Following recommendations without understanding the reasons and consequences is not good engineering practice. Fortunately Linux (the kernel) and every Linux distribution I know of does a decent job of supporting NFS and even does as well as possible supporting CIFS (SMB) so both block and file based network storage are supported. There may be a vocal presence saying block is good and NFS is a disaster area in the Linux community (of course SMB/CIFS is intolerable too because it comes from Microsoft - who it hard to interoperate with). They can be safely ignored IMHO. > The other main point was to show why source > distrubtion is better then binary distrubtion (if OpenStack was available > in easy to compile source form [which is and was not] it would of been > trivial to do a after market patch to not require iSCSCI) Yep. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 09:25:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D412B2E94 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:25:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BGTW4CGhz4Tlp for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:25:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id v4so1858942wme.1 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=j/YO5zv5pH1f1PvaonwJVc4xkHPU6N3gaF2ntuJ123g=; b=eGoj4R+OhGVNgVPUUvII0dP42x+zbOeydCCNg4D8c8UhKW4QN2RgeT4aB8Zzw72PwW 37bpQXJKomtMxhS4SNEtoF+jpoeXE27Vst6Kj7kIHX/rnhKGw+tApvTEaa1zsWU9O3oS 7YVaUU/54qCdhIK/LEAkq1OsfRHlbApxjXUyQ3uZtB0Igo8YP7Co4RxtppAzVY/4klfh 9NMMccvArAsELEfoba6nLR2Q5lzFtRkPXxxaXdRy220BI/fN1kVp3DRq05bhjeF4oiSm 4NCWIuYgCPfC9+RPL4i+sE74cZMSKnSOCo52EKc1C4zyyRkooHYvUEirq7BX7Jmre4RW 9NlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=j/YO5zv5pH1f1PvaonwJVc4xkHPU6N3gaF2ntuJ123g=; b=JJQAgy8bb+M2T9yDiyOW+L/gzqVMGFBhzjcy3tKpCrHLOBw5FgqB/Ljfer7H5TqlJV 3FdHcPpn3sNf4AYf2qNRWLJBE5jghxfaUMnFAI4MqPGHUNBYDQPXs20BaCRNAMFAjlgT jb/QqRHSuyybXohuJGVJk9g41f9B6YLXhjX/K8BE33EqHQ5SmXU2Ev6vCdv4Fy9wHbHz VbzDz+07OY+xPe20raaYaQrSOJSHgLzw7vgnRDd/500NRyqisLLREFBmBay6F8ztMMQn VH6gxQELawzIbjT4HnAyWWxlqMj/OYrdseTSUgdLE9q3QARepOHEDh3rwF48KGSvmSq2 iedQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaEzlnN0/Vvlbwdxj+pdCc3UUKjvCppAjyCHoisG9h/qN+2LOuN vPU3kwFl4QY9nZOUYHcHnalL7bIqE+3lkGOppUE39A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKTqv8TWo+R0b03dc95EiJUAJpFniFzxUwOTC62Cw8XqMcRn3D0GOSahdAn1oSE/T13yoGDhsJLfg+Rkf5OOuc= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4603:: with SMTP id t3mr3454719wma.103.1588065932749; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:24:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best source code hosting service for java port To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BGTW4CGhz4Tlp X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=eGoj4R+O; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::32a) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[a.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-2.44)[ip: (-9.38), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.32), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:25:36 -0000 On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 5:44 AM Aryeh Friedman wrote: > I am putting together a new java development tool port (unit testing) that > I wrote under FreeBSD and want to know what the preferred file/source code > hosting service is to use for making available from a widely known source. > I have casually looked at github (don't have an account yet). > Recommendations? After Microsoft acquired GitHUB some folks moved out to GitLAB the Open-Source solution :-) https://gitlab.com/ You can use the above as free or commercial platform (depending on the features needed). You can also make your own installation: https://about.gitlab.com/install/ I use both GitHub and GitLab but I always prefer the Open-Source stuff. -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 09:41:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D6462B34AD for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:41:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-pl1-x643.google.com (mail-pl1-x643.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::643]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BGqr49XXz4VPl for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:41:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-pl1-x643.google.com with SMTP id t16so8144133plo.7 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:41:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=28kQLQWvdUmVut5S/Kwz9k4YQhCNmLaF22VArodpIYs=; b=bMOEjPhf9aeQM1VvirLFu6SlyPV3lRn3Da+gJ1NrG8XR/SgqJsPPVd0q4v6z3Ss/Dv waydUhF0omfALoZUnqILfsEXF3FwpN1WUoPd8gdYD65PV3bF7/hl8Xxyc18NFrVevB0d tGtZ3C4Nnj1CK1yeND9uOYznV8FnL6XYLljN0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=28kQLQWvdUmVut5S/Kwz9k4YQhCNmLaF22VArodpIYs=; b=px2ClqZWnc4io6pJ12is8d1TI8aTxOPcqrn9APlagSl6hy6QwmbvxPDQJTtc7Px2vr rjavzWO5NJS9UIyw+Ow9HE3vTRNq+95T41NKnEuskn3izo03lgMyrxTXJD+22S96uOuH gvgrf+pGBSlcBzA3zVmYWXL7SxrLlOKuwY5+ubhyKPLlJwBJr5pNBXpMEbDNgDPbzPhO wX+k4JPzcIddFi8cNUqYJB1wQRjhH65vta18zP5PIUj45o2LjopO2//bUQFu/Lcwv58z Yg6YTiAyjGnjJJOizBxgdJypPLjLvUoC3cAabllJv6ttoy323GOmoupkmpPrEB4SF3LP CR9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZzOjNDq45C8Q06kXnJGksfAmfEhBl6DAuCqcvqhoxsaYWE6alK 65mO5f55AEOHzn95vjyFpGsWyqoIxw4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI+oBMH0UjuadPehUGDmHX5aqZeY7FvlXv5IckqRTzg/sfW1WEEW4kNU6ZfndG6Oq/C3dDvrA== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:a986:: with SMTP id a6mr26005164qvb.79.1588066574623; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 60sm13140602qtb.95.2020.04.28.02.36.13 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hp-envy.seibercom.net [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49BGjm3c7xzVdC for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:36:08 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200428053608.00002491@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BGqr49XXz4VPl X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=bMOEjPhf; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::643 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.39 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[250.225.109.174.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.952,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.17)[ip: (-0.02), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:41:29 -0000 On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200, Polytropon commented: >On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:31:46 +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote: >> Although, if you're going to >> choose one of the routes that involves swapping HDDs in and out, then >> installing a brand new system and recreating your local >> customizations from scratch is quite a good approach. There's >> quantities of cruft that tends to build up over the years that this >> method will naturally get rid of. > >I think that is a very important aspect. In case you have a >"grown system", it might be possible that you will be building >or re-installing stuff that you _now_ don't need anymore. >For example, if your server runs application A, the version >used on 11.3 required libraries B and C. The current version >of A doesn't need B anymore, but you still will have it installed >because it was installed before. To avoid such a case, and if >you can and _want_ to do it, you can install a clean system >from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your >"top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and >all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as >they are needed. > >As it has been mentioned before, for ZFS systems, using a BE >is very convenient. Installing on a second disk is also an >option (so you'll always have a fallback "old state" system >that you can activate in case of problems). But of course there >is nothing wrong in using source-based upgrades or binary ones, >and rebuild everything that was installed before. All those >ideas have advantages and disadvantages, are possible or not >possible, and you have to decide for your specific setting and >intended use of the system. > >The single ultimate answer: It depends. :-) I like the idea of replacing the HD with a new disk and then trying to install the new FreeBSD version. I have a situation where I have a new PC that will not run FreeBSD 12.x. I am forced to use 11.x presently. I simply purchased a new identical HD and used that to try and install the newer 12.x version of STABLE when there is an update to see if that will work. If it fails, and it always does, I can install the original HD and be happily on my way. In any case, I would make a backup of any crucial 'config' files, so reinstalling your system on a new HD is relatively simple. I rarely agree with Poly, but in this case, I do concur with his reasoning that it will ease the cleanup of your system and removes potential pitfalls and security hazards. Good luck! -- Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 12:27:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780A82B8138 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:27:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikitastepanov113@yandex.kz) Received: from forward103p.mail.yandex.net (forward103p.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BLWY748bz4fFX for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:27:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikitastepanov113@yandex.kz) Received: from forward100q.mail.yandex.net (forward100q.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c0e:4b:0:640:4012:bb97]) by forward103p.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id EF3BA18C26BA for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:27:33 +0300 (MSK) Received: from mxback9q.mail.yandex.net (mxback9q.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c0e:6b:0:640:b813:52e4]) by forward100q.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id EA4727080004 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:27:33 +0300 (MSK) Received: from localhost (localhost [::1]) by mxback9q.mail.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with ESMTP id Lkl5TzofUn-RX44Atul; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:27:33 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.kz; s=mail; t=1588076853; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; h=Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; b=ZfYRqukyhApbc1C2OAVYV/DgqIVLYc5H8KFP5iHOhEof6W8P4zaypb0/taA/W+njg cQLs7ufed2RIxbkpi+fHr5ZYTWHLJCnVKEbVs+00lHD7iGsDjYHPHuiF6RPid8PKQW ZlvqU/GiTbvUQQSB4Ik8OzSKpF1vW/Bwxmd+crRU= Received: by vla1-d97dbca235a9.qloud-c.yandex.net with HTTP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:27:33 +0300 From: Nikita Stepanov Envelope-From: nikitastepanov113@yandex.ru To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Ufs driver for Windows? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:33 +0600 Message-Id: <1984491588076853@vla1-d97dbca235a9.qloud-c.yandex.net> Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BLWY748bz4fFX X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yandex.kz header.s=mail header.b=ZfYRquky; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=yandex.kz; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of nikitastepanov113@yandex.kz designates 2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:106 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=nikitastepanov113@yandex.kz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yandex.kz:s=mail]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a02:6b8:0:1000::/52]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(-3.63)[ip: (-9.55), ipnet: 2a02:6b8::/32(-4.77), asn: 13238(-3.85), country: RU(0.01)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yandex.kz:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yandex.kz,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[6.0.1.0.7.b.8.0.0.0.0.0.1.4.7.2.2.7.4.1.0.0.0.0.8.b.6.0.2.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13238, ipnet:2a02:6b8::/32, country:RU]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 12:27:39 -0000 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 13:08:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4082B8D88 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:08:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BMRC3rwmz3Cbb for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:08:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SD8rZC045171 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:08:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03SD8rrq045170 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:08:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:08:53 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: questions list Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200428130853.GB39823@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BMRC3rwmz3Cbb X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.05), asn: 7018(1.16), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.90)[0.896,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:08:56 -0000 Thanks to all that have posted suggestions on what to do / how to proceed. I thought that I probably should provide some additional information about the system in question. First of all, I have been updating it from src right along. Both the kernel and user level programs. Also, given the compact form factor of the system and that all of the drives in it are being used either by the root filesystems or the data storage itself. Here is the zpool output root@vader:1 /root> zpool status pool: stor state: ONLINE scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 02:21:12 with 0 errors on Wed Apr 22 05:23:49 2020 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM stor ONLINE 0 0 0 raidz1-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da1 ONLINE 0 0 0 da2 ONLINE 0 0 0 da3 ONLINE 0 0 0 da4 ONLINE 0 0 0 da5 ONLINE 0 0 0 da6 ONLINE 0 0 0 da7 ONLINE 0 0 0 logs ada0s1 ONLINE 0 0 0 cache ada0s2 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors pool: zroot state: ONLINE scan: scrub repaired 0 in 0 days 00:00:20 with 0 errors on Wed Apr 22 03:02:58 2020 config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM zroot ONLINE 0 0 0 nvd0p4 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors So as you can see, zroot it on an NVMe m.2 device plugged into the motherboard and all of the other devices are being used by the stor pool. >From the description in the freebsd-update man page it appears that it doesn't support updating a STABLE or CURRENT level, only a RELEASE level so I assume that I will need to be updating via source. I suspect that I could also reinstall 12.1 over the existing NVMe drive as well, if that would be the most reliable approach. Note that the data in the stor zpool is truly a complete backup of my primary server and I could recreate it, but it's quite a lot of data and I'd really rather not have to do that. Thanks, Bob On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 03:01:11PM -0500, Bob Willcox wrote: > Hi, > > What is the best way to update a system from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? This system > is a backup file server that I could reinstall if necessary, but I'd really like to > avoid having to do that. > > Any tips/ideas on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. > > Bob > > -- > Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to > bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. > Austin, TX | > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 14:51:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191AB2BBB6C for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailout.easydns.com (mailout.easydns.com [64.68.202.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BPk10Sxxz3Kqx for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F7FC10B8; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easydns.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo12-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P0mPKqEFIIuW; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hedeland.org (81-228-157-209-no289.tbcn.telia.com [81.228.157.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33927C0DE2; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SEpleO002331 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:51:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:51:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BPk10Sxxz3Kqx X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of per@hedeland.org has no SPF policy when checking 64.68.202.10) smtp.mailfrom=per@hedeland.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[209.157.228.81.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.24)[ip: (0.23), ipnet: 64.68.200.0/22(-0.23), asn: 16686(1.29), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.25)[0.252,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.92)[0.916,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[10.202.68.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16686, ipnet:64.68.200.0/22, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:51:54 -0000 On 2020-04-28 00:00, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 > Polytropon wrote: > >> from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your >> "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and >> all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as >> they are needed. > > Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list > of packages to install. Hm, that sounds like it could be quite useful for the way I typically do upgrades, but $ pkg leaf pkg: unknown command: leaf For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. $ - and I'm afraid I can't spot a likely candidate for a typo in pkg(8). Please help!:-) Thanks --Per Hedeland From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 15:11:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40D82BC447 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:11:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BQ8t64n5z3M5f for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:11:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SFBeVJ045398 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:11:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03SFBdEb045397; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:11:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:11:39 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Per Hedeland Cc: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200428151139.GC39823@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BQ8t64n5z3M5f X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.05), asn: 7018(1.16), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.75)[0.753,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:11:44 -0000 On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:51:47PM +0200, Per Hedeland wrote: > On 2020-04-28 00:00, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 > > Polytropon wrote: > > > >> from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your > >> "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and > >> all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as > >> they are needed. > > > > Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list > > of packages to install. > > Hm, that sounds like it could be quite useful for the way I typically > do upgrades, but > > $ pkg leaf > pkg: unknown command: leaf > > For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. > $ > > - and I'm afraid I can't spot a likely candidate for a typo in pkg(8). > > Please help!:-) I can't find any mention of a leaf command in the man page for pkg or its help output, but it does work on my systems. -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 15:17:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A702BC694 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:17:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BQJ02mvdz3MSL for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:17:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.qeng-ho.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB64106A7; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:17:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? To: Bob Willcox , Per Hedeland Cc: Steve O'Hara-Smith , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> <20200428151139.GC39823@rancor.immure.com> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:17:45 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200428151139.GC39823@rancor.immure.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BQJ02mvdz3MSL X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 217.155.128.241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.155.128.240/29]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13037, ipnet:217.155.0.0/16, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.40)[ip: (-7.78), ipnet: 217.155.0.0/16(-3.89), asn: 13037(-0.27), country: GB(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:17:53 -0000 On 28/04/2020 16:11, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:51:47PM +0200, Per Hedeland wrote: >> On 2020-04-28 00:00, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 >>> Polytropon wrote: >>> >>>> from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your >>>> "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and >>>> all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as >>>> they are needed. >>> >>> Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list >>> of packages to install. >> >> Hm, that sounds like it could be quite useful for the way I typically >> do upgrades, but >> >> $ pkg leaf >> pkg: unknown command: leaf >> >> For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. >> $ >> >> - and I'm afraid I can't spot a likely candidate for a typo in pkg(8). >> >> Please help!:-) > > I can't find any mention of a leaf command in the man page for pkg or its help output, > but it does work on my systems. > It's an alias defined in /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf. "pkg alias" should show the configured aliases. If you've edited pkg.conf at some point later updates won't touch it. The alias section of mine reads # Sample alias settings ALIAS : { all-depends: query %dn-%dv, annotations: info -A, build-depends: info -qd, cinfo: info -Cx, comment: query -i "%c", csearch: search -Cx, desc: query -i "%e", download: fetch, iinfo: info -ix, isearch: search -ix, prime-list: "query -e '%a = 0' '%n'", prime-origins: "query -e '%a = 0' '%o'", leaf: "query -e '%#r == 0' '%n-%v'", list: info -ql, noauto = "query -e '%a == 0' '%n-%v'", options: query -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", origin: info -qo, provided-depends: info -qb, rall-depends: rquery %dn-%dv, raw: info -R, rcomment: rquery -i "%c", rdesc: rquery -i "%e", required-depends: info -qr, roptions: rquery -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", shared-depends: info -qB, show: info -f -k, size: info -sq, } -- Fat Earther: One who believes the world is round but has put on too much weight round the middle. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 15:59:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6302BDB78 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:59:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BRCn0QQdz3Q8M for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:59:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SFxEVI045498 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:59:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03SFxD7T045497; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:59:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:59:13 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Arthur Chance Cc: Per Hedeland , "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200428155913.GD39823@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> <20200428151139.GC39823@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BRCn0QQdz3Q8M X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.05), asn: 7018(1.15), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.74)[0.742,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:59:18 -0000 That explains it then. My system's copy of pkg.conf does contain the leaf alias. Bob On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:17:45PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 28/04/2020 16:11, Bob Willcox wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:51:47PM +0200, Per Hedeland wrote: > >> On 2020-04-28 00:00, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 > >>> Polytropon wrote: > >>> > >>>> from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your > >>>> "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and > >>>> all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as > >>>> they are needed. > >>> > >>> Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list > >>> of packages to install. > >> > >> Hm, that sounds like it could be quite useful for the way I typically > >> do upgrades, but > >> > >> $ pkg leaf > >> pkg: unknown command: leaf > >> > >> For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. > >> $ > >> > >> - and I'm afraid I can't spot a likely candidate for a typo in pkg(8). > >> > >> Please help!:-) > > > > I can't find any mention of a leaf command in the man page for pkg or its help output, > > but it does work on my systems. > > > > It's an alias defined in /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf. "pkg alias" should > show the configured aliases. If you've edited pkg.conf at some point > later updates won't touch it. The alias section of mine reads > > # Sample alias settings > ALIAS : { > all-depends: query %dn-%dv, > annotations: info -A, > build-depends: info -qd, > cinfo: info -Cx, > comment: query -i "%c", > csearch: search -Cx, > desc: query -i "%e", > download: fetch, > iinfo: info -ix, > isearch: search -ix, > prime-list: "query -e '%a = 0' '%n'", > prime-origins: "query -e '%a = 0' '%o'", > leaf: "query -e '%#r == 0' '%n-%v'", > list: info -ql, > noauto = "query -e '%a == 0' '%n-%v'", > options: query -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", > origin: info -qo, > provided-depends: info -qb, > rall-depends: rquery %dn-%dv, > raw: info -R, > rcomment: rquery -i "%c", > rdesc: rquery -i "%e", > required-depends: info -qr, > roptions: rquery -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", > shared-depends: info -qB, > show: info -f -k, > size: info -sq, > } > > > -- > Fat Earther: One who believes the world is round but has put on too > much weight round the middle. -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 16:16:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513682BE89F for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailout.easydns.com (mailout.easydns.com [64.68.202.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BRbp26Hzz3xfh for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D27C80AA; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easydns.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo12-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ku6Hi3G6cgkz; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hedeland.org (81-228-157-209-no289.tbcn.telia.com [81.228.157.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD630C665F; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SGGTSM002581 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:16:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? To: Arthur Chance , Bob Willcox Cc: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <9945f3b9-0452-721b-e931-816bc7a044ae@FreeBSD.org> <20200427234150.9bb022df.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200427230003.06a4a2579fc941eae8497388@sohara.org> <3d0844aa-f591-f13e-a471-fcf6b7c40a22@hedeland.org> <20200428151139.GC39823@rancor.immure.com> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:16:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BRbp26Hzz3xfh X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of per@hedeland.org has no SPF policy when checking 64.68.202.10) smtp.mailfrom=per@hedeland.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[209.157.228.81.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.24)[ip: (0.23), ipnet: 64.68.200.0/22(-0.23), asn: 16686(1.29), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.24)[0.237,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.93)[0.935,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[10.202.68.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16686, ipnet:64.68.200.0/22, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:16:39 -0000 On 2020-04-28 17:17, Arthur Chance wrote: > On 28/04/2020 16:11, Bob Willcox wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:51:47PM +0200, Per Hedeland wrote: >>> On 2020-04-28 00:00, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >>>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 23:41:50 +0200 >>>> Polytropon wrote: >>>> >>>>> from scratch, add your OS modifications, then install your >>>>> "top level ports" (the things you're intending to use), and >>>>> all required dependencies will be resolved automatically as >>>>> they are needed. >>>> >>>> Run pkg leaf on the existing system to get a first cut of the list >>>> of packages to install. >>> >>> Hm, that sounds like it could be quite useful for the way I typically >>> do upgrades, but >>> >>> $ pkg leaf >>> pkg: unknown command: leaf >>> >>> For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. >>> $ >>> >>> - and I'm afraid I can't spot a likely candidate for a typo in pkg(8). >>> >>> Please help!:-) >> >> I can't find any mention of a leaf command in the man page for pkg or its help output, >> but it does work on my systems. >> > > It's an alias defined in /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf. "pkg alias" should > show the configured aliases. If you've edited pkg.conf at some point > later updates won't touch it. Thanks! For some reason I had pkg.conf.sample, but not pkg.conf (*may* be due to tinkering when the repo got b0rken recently) - now fixed. That just leaves(!) figuring out what the query arguments mean:-) (OK, I got it). --Per > The alias section of mine reads > > # Sample alias settings > ALIAS : { > all-depends: query %dn-%dv, > annotations: info -A, > build-depends: info -qd, > cinfo: info -Cx, > comment: query -i "%c", > csearch: search -Cx, > desc: query -i "%e", > download: fetch, > iinfo: info -ix, > isearch: search -ix, > prime-list: "query -e '%a = 0' '%n'", > prime-origins: "query -e '%a = 0' '%o'", > leaf: "query -e '%#r == 0' '%n-%v'", > list: info -ql, > noauto = "query -e '%a == 0' '%n-%v'", > options: query -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", > origin: info -qo, > provided-depends: info -qb, > rall-depends: rquery %dn-%dv, > raw: info -R, > rcomment: rquery -i "%c", > rdesc: rquery -i "%e", > required-depends: info -qr, > roptions: rquery -i "%n - %Ok: %Ov", > shared-depends: info -qB, > show: info -f -k, > size: info -sq, > } > > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 18:27:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9372C1654 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from fedex2.jetcafe.org (fedex2.jetcafe.org [205.147.26.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "fedex2.jetcafe.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BVW24l3Gz45pT for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) X-Envelope-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from bigus.dream-tech.com (bigus.jetcafe.org [205.147.26.7]) by fedex2.jetcafe.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03SIRZGj061613 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:27:34 -0700 From: Dave Hayes To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) Message-ID: <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> In-Reply-To: References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1 ( out of 6) ALL_TRUSTED,SHORTCIRCUIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin version 3.4.2-jetcafeglobal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.83 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BVW24l3Gz45pT X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dave@jetcafe.org designates 205.147.26.23 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@jetcafe.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.28 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jetcafe.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7397, ipnet:205.147.0.0/18, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:43 -0000 On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:33:21 -0500 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > On 4/25/20 12:57 PM, Morten Bo Johansen via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On 2020-04-25 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > > >> I join you and ask list moderators to ban that person from the list. > > > > freebsd-questions is on news.gmane.io, so you can use a news > > reader, like e.g. slrn to kill file authors, threads, etc., > > that you don't want to see. In slrn it takes just two key > > strokes to do that! Maybe that is better than to crank up your > > blood pressure over some single individual? ;) > However, that only will cover me, mitigate my own annoyance. ...and preserve your honor. > This will > not cover spreading of misinformation through well respected mail list > to my regret allowing itself to be abused. It will not cover people I > respect and routinely get help from from being abused by disrespectful > (to name it the mildest) person on this respected mail list. I personally find it quite difficult to glean complete information from moderated mailing lists. What usually happens is that the human bias of the moderator(s) prevents the dissemination of some information and the mailing list becomes useless except as a window to the worldviews and information the moderators deem worthy. As to the people you get help from, I daresay most of them have been around the block on this and aren't even paying attention to this thread. I personally feel you have to give others (especially those of science) the chance to reject information themselves, and not try to "protect" them from anything. Down that road is madness. :) Note well that the person you are up in arms against serves a useful purpose by demonstrating that almost anyone can raise a topic here, and thus giving a strong indicator that more complete information is available on this list. -- Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>>> *The opinions expressed above are entirely my own* <<<< Listening to eyewitness descriptions of an event you saw yourself, you might begin to wonder about this thing we call "history". From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 19:13:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987612C25FB for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:13:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darcy@druid.net) Received: from mail.vex.net (mail.vex.net [98.158.139.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BWWz61jgz49Gy for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:13:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darcy@druid.net) Received: from dilbert.druid.net (unknown [98.160.82.41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: darcy) by mail.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86C437FC04 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> From: D'Arcy Cain Autocrypt: addr=darcy@druid.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXno+ARYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAR2o17zm/M442SONWLjdQ/8Jpro8TbnUm/m1r4MHhygS0 HUQnQXJjeSBDYWluIDxkYXJjeUBkcnVpZC5uZXQ+iJYEExYIAD4WIQQZ0YBgv7psnnP4U/Hh AAd6d7lwwgUCXno+AQIbAwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDhAAd6 d7lwwvvTAQCfxQvyB5M06arZ2cL4LDj0wVxG9ay0PTR+qrQQ9DhevAD+I7W9XlbX6qL3gfDe A0wmuPKWrdSRWEcagXI1sGSC3Ay4OAReej4BEgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdAbPzu0iryH2ph9hjN L+Cu1Wo85QbDLV174RHCnjmD5WMDAQgHiH4EGBYIACYWIQQZ0YBgv7psnnP4U/HhAAd6d7lw wgUCXno+AQIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRDhAAd6d7lwwhb/AQD/8Vd7zTK1s3g4bFCApa3W4zSqUa3/ 9trMr0wfaEOngAEA8iWgHnExoVEdLo9542+dJ8K0L7ntWdfIZLgCXK/2OQ8= Message-ID: <842ac760-ae65-595c-9268-f395c5e9c025@druid.net> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 14:13:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Rhc3SyNIryahY4BWmNfLkXb9bZwZIozN3" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BWWz61jgz49Gy X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of darcy@druid.net has no SPF policy when checking 98.158.139.68) smtp.mailfrom=darcy@druid.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.07 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.98)[ip: (-5.92), ipnet: 98.158.139.0/24(-2.96), asn: 19842(-0.91), country: CA(-0.09)]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/mixed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:19842, ipnet:98.158.139.0/24, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[druid.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:13:36 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Rhc3SyNIryahY4BWmNfLkXb9bZwZIozN3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="YhxZ7pYjMwuBVosvyRviE0KRrnI63CjpK" --YhxZ7pYjMwuBVosvyRviE0KRrnI63CjpK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2020-04-28 13:27, Dave Hayes wrote: > I personally find it quite difficult to glean complete information from= > moderated mailing lists. What usually happens is that the human bias of= the > moderator(s) prevents the dissemination of some information and the mai= ling > list becomes useless except as a window to the worldviews and informati= on the > moderators deem worthy. I run a few lists, PyGreSQL for example, and I use moderation like this; Every person joining the list is moderated by default. The first time someone posts I get the email, decide if it is an abuser or spammer and, if not, I approve the posting and remove the moderation bit. If you are on one of my lists you basically never see spam but users are posting unimpeded. It's very little work for me as most people don't post anyway and I only have to deal with new posters once. Sometimes I implement that on an existing list. In that case I simply leave everyone unmoderated and only block new users. The assumption is that if you are already on the list you are probably not a spammer. --=20 D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 788 2246 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. IM: darcy@VybeNetworks.com, VoIP: sip:darcy@druid.net --YhxZ7pYjMwuBVosvyRviE0KRrnI63CjpK-- --Rhc3SyNIryahY4BWmNfLkXb9bZwZIozN3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQQZ0YBgv7psnnP4U/HhAAd6d7lwwgUCXqiAVwAKCRDhAAd6d7lw wkFpAQCuOirCcV6cUlkOQy9DJRcfABqzVZR6I3GQ6cgF9Of8qQD8Csnoy1jitCZa IQIjilh3ugWFQoMKCngiy75R8WScYQc= =5506 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Rhc3SyNIryahY4BWmNfLkXb9bZwZIozN3-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 23:11:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5102C2C8272 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:11:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from starikarp@dismail.de) Received: from mx1.dismail.de (mx1.dismail.de [78.46.223.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.dismail.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Bcps1sw9z4Rxm for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from starikarp@dismail.de) Received: from mx1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 59d6dc9f for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:11:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.dismail.de ( [10.240.26.12]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id ddde016e for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:11:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 29da63d9 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:11:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id ec5e58b0 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:11:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 19:11:42 -0400 From: ajtiM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Firefox 76.0,1 Message-ID: <20200428191142.5cf10bbc@dismail.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Bcps1sw9z4Rxm X-Spamd-Bar: ------- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[dismail.de:s=20190914]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[dismail.de.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:78.46.223.134]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(-2.19)[ip: (-9.91), ipnet: 78.46.0.0/15(0.51), asn: 24940(-1.55), country: DE(-0.02)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[dismail.de:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[134.223.46.78.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[dismail.de,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:78.46.0.0/15, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:11:50 -0000 Hi! I do not have installed Python 2.7 but today I want to update Firefox to version 76.0,1 and it pull me Python 2.7. I have checkmarks on DBUS, FFMPEG, GCONF, OPTIMAZED_CFLAGS, PROFILE and SNDIO. make =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nspr>=3D4.25 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nss>=3D3.51.1 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: icu>=3D64.1,1 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libevent>=3D2.1.8 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: harfbuzz>=3D2.6.4 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: graphite2>=3D1.3.14 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: png>=3D1.6.35 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libvpx>=3D1.8.2 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: py37-sqlite3>0 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: v4l_compat>0 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: autoconf-2.13 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: nasm - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: yasm - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: zip - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: llvm90>0 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust-cbindgen>=3D0.13.1 - f= ound =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust>=3D1.41 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python3.7 - fou= nd =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: node - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/clang90 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libnotify>0 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/include/sndio.h - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: gmake - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libiconv>=3D1.14_11 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: pkgconf>=3D1.3.0_1 - found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python2.7 - not found =3D=3D=3D> NOTICE: This port is deprecated; you may wish to reconsider installing it: EOLed upstream. It is scheduled to be removed on or after 2020-12-31. =3D=3D=3D> python27-2.7.17_1 has known vulnerabilities: python27-2.7.17_1 is vulnerable: Python -- Regular Expression DoS attack against client CVE: CVE-2020-8492 WWW: https://vuxml.FreeBSD.org/freebsd/a27b0bb6-84fc-11ea-b5b4-641c67a117d8.html 1 problem(s) in 1 installed package(s) found. =3D> Please update your ports tree and try again. =3D> Note: Vulnerable ports are marked as such even if there is no update available. =3D> If you wish to ignore this vulnerability rebuild with 'make DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=3Dyes' *** Error code 1 Why I need it Python 2.7, please? Thank you. --=20 Ernst Lubitsch=E2=80=99s Ninotchka:=20 =E2=80=9C=E2=80=98Waiter! A cup of coffee without cream, please!=E2=80=99 = =E2=80=98I=E2=80=99m sorry, sir, we have no cream, only milk, so can it be a coffee without milk?=E2=80=99=E2= =80=9D=20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 01:31:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F982CA7E3 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:31:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Bgvb6V4vz4Xc1 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:31:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.34.94]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MQgtC-1jrAp43nRW-00NlpJ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:05 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 03:31:03 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Nikita Stepanov Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ufs driver for Windows? Message-Id: <20200429033103.cf354a51.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <1984491588076853@vla1-d97dbca235a9.qloud-c.yandex.net> References: <1984491588076853@vla1-d97dbca235a9.qloud-c.yandex.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:caKoEJKtbjPwKDs4dMy+3XT3Ueu1dIJs1zDtcBTyPFEm0L/veN0 Ltm/RJsBXYzcTWtMJRwMw9my3lUo37z9SOJf3pseibwOdNlCV0iQkiXpmDektk/uG1XkMaw S+pmLlz7x6jsKKf7pHh19Sp+6gO80k7V3kNy4smvIab9rL+8krkwUArKp2m0nh7EMWndghA 6tBOjs8uKPzOVKCOXB1Bg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:UGbI04tDNtc=:qBpPkzJA2NJGJ1KpbOwX7f 1MBXwA2bMaw173HZyi3d+pencvUhknfYNH4Q8fY5mHy3LsIsrMWj9+4869f3+hSY3qFld4ZtS KA9kQ6b3EP9IfjYIyeN4iYOPCmy2wOlO8Yv26De7of9eiYZA8hzJ5j/ZDy56WWcRAdf+q4BSp FE2qZOKoTr1nbpbPz1Kfi0yq1tJq7keggz+OncRCf6EJQQkaZ0OJgdtJN2hOoIFLRcO2r7+cw ES5/IsGXJAvWmsSl8wG26rA9r4Mhhxo/Hs59ZdNDr7QIbmErsJSh/nHTQj7Ks5SCzWrhrAroi Mmv106yvDUAtc2tFBI0sPoELVGF9OIKHQ9sdYzLWpE0GAc7VT/8la4nAsPysGf0ht2s0SNgpR dQd7HR7ajjqqfAmtaeTfFU7hehTgMOrxnsEZbE/bmGvNQ4lhqOX4db0OE+gMooDR8QpQ1iO00 Ek4YcNfb//IC3Oq2q7or1dOr0Tv+bRVQYPkVi+5fgfxJh74/wUOtEbNqTApEWkr9L4T8VUgO7 obr38o10hkXEZbSzgQOU5jfiIqZmKWoY3U0YqeyAPF9J9sCfUZsSgbnmbUEB14nfK8PvnVosD PH7tNsOQ181cyMgc75w/ZT9KMIpVdz/a9E9pc4mZexyZStaWWva7IhtFcpRrmfOx8T8ttgDNf W+HitE75ybn5VjC7N+po0e8fprNrwSGhntmmvg1PZ2aI0JOjkAOBiFUXWU8Z8Eq9vzATyI34S GeA+92Rhxpk9k0F8k6X5wLBcACAsWbViSgQcBeCx15sGUfNyrsR3H6m93xSwg4M4Yxz7OpXZv CVHRT4BF/Y3mklE5aZxpuG75pJ3JDanIWIj03tnHQgCmSVKKtLcYdARWw/c0bpz+goSV2Q6 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Bgvb6V4vz4Xc1 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.81 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.34.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_NEUTRAL(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.13]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.93)[0.930,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.48)[ip: (1.57), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.22), asn: 8560(2.05), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:31:09 -0000 On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:33 +0600, Nikita Stepanov wrote: > [nothing] First of all, you should phrase your question in the message body. Some users will filter for empty messages (as possible spam) and therefore not recognize your question, Furthermore you should probably ask this question on a mailing list (or better a web forum) related to "Windows". However, I know that there's a program called "UFS Explorer" (I used the free version once - it worked!), primarily used for data recovery, as well as "ufs2tools" that support reading files from UFS volumes. Also check this article mentioning "Crossmeta FUSE": https://www.crossmeta.io/how-to-mount-ufs2-on-windows/ Always keep in mind that "Windows" support for filesystems others than FAT and NTFS is quite restricted, especially if you want write support. Installing the required tools is not a simple point & click task, but it's still possible to do with a bit of work, even though it's not a trivial task. You can still get good results, depending on what you need to do with UFS filesystems... The forum thread from 2008 http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=289 additionally mentions those: http://ffsdrv.sourceforge.net/ http://ufs2tools.sourceforge.net/ http://ffs.szm.sk/en/index.html Use your favorite search engine for more inspiration. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 01:58:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994192CB3DD for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:58:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12f.google.com (mail-il1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BhVl21GZz4Z3X for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id w6so947976ilg.1 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:58:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1zx440aX8YmZK+FMsos4x1mCSQht1vAC6qfgbYtrFU0=; b=SxDqs3xAwvpFEHYU+AB2NkjgjnofcDw99w5I4xq6CyIhsNNO5x2BIyKgz8cR4ibtiI ta9mgbf1I6QBXG+BtK1cy3cld3l3xFeUWDrBeZb7FvJYPoQT2YVe60VugieEWt9lSzun ZSvDgzYF+++jmD3p4HY1A6L04mTG6hx0+n74lrElYjxYWSLPsIejxzu2f+5B8Y3LRLxn UqpQKxVNHM01C3yudOoSXIYM9hoxnjGmNYGMHLaGv98hEo7wmeTbjF2xNpY/SYGgdbSS d+Ds+YeoHRFLrKYr2zdKZIghTMsZJbxuCa0YIB+Soh1DP/bFSj2jzJ+gSvP0Rjhn/s+C XmQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1zx440aX8YmZK+FMsos4x1mCSQht1vAC6qfgbYtrFU0=; b=shFBNxG2UCHVG3xcAHnjhpiB7t+l1iiQoUbG43iHV4ZCOvgbPrGcNBN/vt3NYiOKaI muxEF/sPqv+MKaSIwsTdOq/IsqbVbXILAw2kGCRNwIjZwM13w6XaRxOo4lH9Tcv4ix84 VByMZGeTsUNqp2ntFH3+b+8qWLS/+CsgSdNfdEtwclP8kXLu3GmRiUjF9LxEQmiyqvd6 KH/8vA4cQgqPBBKpF4FNJD78R2nGyxmTkIEixEORSdLbwR3gCZH/c/xnn3rjqQCJKHo9 khH/TKNaOTOiCrIt6ufCwO2HOnBL08XUZ/0rb7jBJku+2Ctlbm6fqFeJrVdlJEZ926bP pjOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ3pdygFBHwVX9uFU9ICn4qfpzPtstD6kfU64FL8rXGPtvfkvSy ypGx5jAUCWFPLk8f5HsbSdjOVWFj7Tpc+IVr3vA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJWOC0vm4CxCajJbJc+ijOtdaZALmOb8WSQZM8WcJJ++O1UaT1l87UJHpcT2UtYLhDmg1lc7bZtcHqpvoG1snE= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ca81:: with SMTP id t1mr28636200ilo.187.1588125485661; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:58:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> In-Reply-To: <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:57:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: Dave Hayes Cc: Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BhVl21GZz4Z3X X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SxDqs3xA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.78), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:58:08 -0000 On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 2:27 PM Dave Hayes wrote: > On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:33:21 -0500 > Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > This will > > not cover spreading of misinformation through well respected mail list > > to my regret allowing itself to be abused. It will not cover people I > > respect and routinely get help from from being abused by disrespectful > > (to name it the mildest) person on this respected mail list. > > I personally find it quite difficult to glean complete information from > moderated mailing lists. What usually happens is that the human bias of the > moderator(s) prevents the dissemination of some information and the mailing > list becomes useless except as a window to the worldviews and information > the > moderators deem worthy. > The other problem with any sort of moderation is my troll is your fine upstanding list member and your troll is my "friend". What I mean is everyone who was calling me a troll (deserved or not) was defending someone who arguably had even ruder behavior then I did. For example while being blunt I made a serious effort to never attack anyone personally. "Only an idiot" does not attack the person directly it is an attack on a mindset/loosely defined group of people while one of the "cool kids" (according to the reaction of a few other people) on the list made very direct and personal attacks on me with comments like "you are not qualified" (without without any attempt to specify I was not qualified in, thus making it a blanket and deeply personally insulting comment). Therefore if you going to label one person a troll based on behavior then you need to (if you are intellectually honest) label all such behavior trollish regardless of source. This requires objectivity to an extremely rare degree, ant thus is very unlikely to be found in any single person/moderator or small group thereof. Also it would require a very specific and detailed list of rules and behavioral expectations to give the moderators a standard to judge by, -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 02:42:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1026F2CC1CB for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:42:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BjV06l3tz4bv6 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1588128151; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=5pVRwqJDNVB6EF10JQVZ9lc4a5U=; b=qu8aYQvjnRNbtRkoAZRLUSARRek6hG7Ikq5TY2TwT+oPUMJXkjRUfoszYaLlRENp tKEFqpPxCslY1CJP4lQt35Il17AXBwM/2C57yV61iGh15OsE0H4/jdM3Q634sg1V dM9zn2S2U/EYQvAmGU5QL2g+rDXzNE6p3nPi4T2NPq4+HYJ4ar5fqdPEEWbooiMb 9zwh+orwQfq34f6LQ8wua69KWDs5frSAqZSACYKXmCzCHWsHGEX9IqYxpUNLlcgQ xPYGLtQBTuGztOW/WZGm8VHOMO4FoLL2frzn7ILrrXUOYDEu71XaGDjynw0f6/gh dol0zBBK9RAKTmhWrkp2WA==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Z5uS40ZA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=7Y_SXBUtJnxAJSKk4u4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:31796] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id C9/40-10869-799E8AE5; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:42:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24232.59798.585406.321666@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:42:30 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: ajtiM Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Firefox 76.0,1 In-Reply-To: <20200428191142.5cf10bbc@dismail.de> References: <20200428191142.5cf10bbc@dismail.de> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BjV06l3tz4bv6 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=qu8aYQvj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-1.53)[ip: (-9.02), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(0.69), asn: 36271(0.73), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[78.97.168.69.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 02:42:34 -0000 ajtiM via freebsd-questions writes: > I do not have installed Python 2.7 but today I want to update Firefox > to version 76.0,1 and it pull me Python 2.7. > I have checkmarks on DBUS, FFMPEG, GCONF, OPTIMAZED_CFLAGS, PROFILE and > SNDIO. > make > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nspr>=4.25 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nss>=3.51.1 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: icu>=64.1,1 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libevent>=2.1.8 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: harfbuzz>=2.6.4 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: graphite2>=1.3.14 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: png>=1.6.35 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libvpx>=1.8.2 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: py37-sqlite3>0 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: v4l_compat>0 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: autoconf-2.13 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: nasm - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: yasm - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: zip - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: llvm90>0 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust-cbindgen>=0.13.1 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust>=1.41 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python3.7 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: node - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/clang90 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libnotify>0 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/include/sndio.h - > found ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: gmake - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libiconv>=1.14_11 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: pkgconf>=1.3.0_1 - found > ===> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python2.7 - not _If_ I have this right: Firefox requires pkgconf ... which - if DOCS=yes - requires ImageMagic ... which requires (in your case) python 2.7. See if you can rebuild your versiou of ImageMagic against python 3.7, and this should go away. Respectfully, Robert Huff -- Get it right: _physical_ distancing; _social_ cohesion From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 06:52:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2FE2A9D35 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Bq2l6qPQz3LLT for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:52:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: Pxo_SM4VM1kkw64MJQWfQxLPxncrBhrfg7PEOB0CkmhdX_wsPICi2JYKzrniqLN vW4w_hXxqv8nDwtj9pQvf79pOBD1e3nZimpW_Hwce6mRS1kCGCDmBv_ZxYften.kh8UQ8DrcGsX1 0irsvnqfDiRNRCF01sY1q.8XXVAzfKyKSKox_DgrJyo1uKHaSNOFIU6QsVLId1N8ayPA2r1ERIzm 2ZSn44TRzqFYGQM4DVmZD8Gf6wvXWyHECsZbysCS.reTesBPFTBaKMHCH.rGb3v5EOq4djlFowIK Mr8SIVRw3gEX0RhmzKyadc0Y.PAn9PxEk3ynPX_EIRAgHNFV3avRRxaYdX2LlZkVY_OlibtS4LiQ xhRF17oEZFXc5fC8BdS2pGcXRevgoqGaKjbUxN6JUMLM8MoABBk9V5XGEm6oOtPA4h24XSY2ctuL _lx4FUSsBVkNjUIn6wSb104TeE81KzyGCl7m0grM4oA5yGToNFg_F6BI.j7K9mIkTw6c9CbEjO7t cNnuBBG0Ixwj0GIdaiuIDbwVUpoc_lKGdH1JelDxxudP2xSWe_b6ljmA_CHMFvl5c_jcddFa5sjQ GO79bVf2DQuZw4bVmfijVV3kquwAvZvf1.8X1TBwa0pR8mBpKvc5PrWx3DiZyG90NCC2wsfBtGZI jsbtb0Gd1i0wfClCfnKTX1VvKHJlEOCcnUbvxIueW_is1JN6hXQLrDd1BJly.0RhwyH6tpH814.r hLQjct18dLHqcaHx2nPwCB9s1S0TRMzpS6Rwku8gEOfq4x6aLPBB2oJRep0kqZzUyNieHySZpE3o srR8Oyu4aspyyRrfasmTLIWfELBZb5HLsUVrTjSPcdwr19KaWSXCzDaYGWRn7uyvHC534t08FZDI RtwLD1ZdVvBJD_ECQVaD9gO2jaERXC8HXZGiMgUZvDKVSfehmmWnDj80aHIKVZQprhZ5A0jxcCgv d9PbB0.qDMxlpNqpUWbpiamKDVc5W0__GKZUipD4aDLDZVUmV1kEysMdDjXvhE9ukR7DjC5My14_ Q4EifyBGpe1YSBy863gWgLLmFP_yg2Aj.4949sCPONh4aE.IPMYE33e_e1AyvpE7mJh3TwB4lwak fGpBKdsX6pL9SwlZupbWCWWzvYnkhbClPH.YCveEmjRL8ILRDSInNyS6Sm0_vjd56T7lAcvRTcQ_ 7kvk_LqNpyud8wG4M4FHqnWg7XT_qBmm2B2e38esoX51vyvFvHwBglygRO4Z2lsbgv7IuV8hP.aj cHiMFzG.XGNgMgIvmSvawLEeYSDW5F7KV37Y2GjGp7fZZ7yIWM6v_jlQZdwLxo0AViZRST..qTVB 5xqPZ_tYSXOBhEG_BJncQxNdjq4VnYdlQw1XeIX7Tklnj5Tee3iYy_LMQWRxDlrAHOSi6ois1d3T sHVFUk.mfHeV0GBLn2kA- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:52:45 +0000 Received: by smtp412.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e1079cc85d01c18aa71b78254d6dec17; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:52:44 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:52:47 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions-owner@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) Message-ID: <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Bq2l6qPQz3LLT X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.61 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (6.20), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.11), asn: 34010(1.67), country: GB(-0.07)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.32)[-0.316,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.20)[0.201,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[146.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[146.179.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:52:50 -0000 Hi, I'm joining this list since 2012 and don't remember anybody who ever was nearly as rude, let alone ruder than Aryeh Friedman. This person should consider to reread his own posts to the list, perhaps starting with his subject of this thread. "Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait)" Insulting "many" subscribers of this mailing list as "haters" is rude. His mails are full of similar insults about "evil" people and things, apart from this he insists to continue spreading FUD. Every now and then off-topic threads are nice to read, as long as they aren't the reason for dispeace. The moderation bit could be used to sort out emails with continued threads, that do not belong to this list and that in addition do cause dispeace. It doesn't require to ban a subscriber or subscribers from the list. A long discussion regarding legal questions, done by laymen, might belong to https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat . OTOH tinfoil hat theories including insults about bad intentions behind FLOSS licenses, are probably unwelcome on any FLOSS related mailing list. The OP of the threads in question does add insults and preposterous allegation to his opinions. At the moment nobody seems to be upset about other opinions, it's just that the tone of voice let those opinions become unreasonable. I can't speak for other, but I like one or the other license better than the GPL. What I dispute are the conclusions based upon infamous misrepresentations. https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2020-April/author.html#start Regards, Ralf From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 08:23:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760A22AC0E2; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:23:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Bs3V3nwjz3Qhy; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:23:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id r2so1598526ilo.6; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:23:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2zezUAP1x+3fFYTHXa3gVs1gQGEI4tNZk5cJLOv3OLQ=; b=PfYr49NizfWZ+pSGRS1mshpEUPy9OHOq5n5FRlkj4/IqSpn+53bHZGmzVhbHvmysHX dku8qax6AHqgNWAQaeiP5QZ1kLtpolHV1SQa9eJ5bfgr8vjH9p9WvNhYp2ezPAdBKbHL ML1wwj3i0ebs8EZCUK5OXf9gudtU2miQhX5DxACrcN/HqEAHuK1oZrh1LafxSXGRl04R hLxcIVp7oe0494544H9KTGuC5jQgQ8GXjUUjVBTwHpiytMzmmPi9uYCuyiob/Qzy+K5Q dF11iylNroTqcrQYahTqLn5kn4uwTkS1up3wC7uAUJMNudPpa47KgPxv9le4QPmLo8/I QDPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2zezUAP1x+3fFYTHXa3gVs1gQGEI4tNZk5cJLOv3OLQ=; b=YSU36eYEysJdqD2VLvLsPO/hAe13qGAx34KiB9Pct0LwvYhqrkrtLhOP3vbjJ4ZYvF fjB6M7REh6ehgDMOOFyOl8pckyjzL4gBeklUV6HLF57FPN+b+ca3qjarqr4qty/+Wern 5P+guNNEmCa70GiKAgpyCWEXIcllg9MPsrI3YF47Krs+G+mWf9hqltRGb3qEsfOjHXHt /CokKBIF298gw1ZBGirVXIZi4mS0EEcMxmBPguclx3pNN1lIYyKAJFgHp99u99vI7/rf dztjCr+oucnRhJRITCWzTOU2xh+BS1KgGUjl/05Y2DWQyTvj2+FUXIoiJZ+mCXdvZHdr fzdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pua/YYpX4qccDr4UeLr76//E75XeaNFxFEirDknxz9/+IEYSjmIa c6zVBWrztgqjmb4k8mWl10S/uA7CEpwfOpjQ0Ls= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ9WfgXEMiDgnOl4KiPm5ea0z8jZkiqAQ9iwZ1EP02xxsEL8ohHJ3ttx7O0c4W4jD1dOKsIWCufg/8hHpua8Vo= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5e16:: with SMTP id s22mr31698758ilb.81.1588148613116; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:23:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 04:23:21 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: freebsd-questions-owner@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Bs3V3nwjz3Qhy X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=PfYr49Ni; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::133 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[9]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.57), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:23:35 -0000 On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 2:53 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm joining this list since 2012 and don't remember anybody who ever > was nearly as rude, let alone ruder than Aryeh Friedman. This person > In all the time you and I have been on the list we have had no issue til recently. The earliest post of mine I can find is from Sep. 2007 ( https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-September/157968.html). And my FreeBSD experience goes all the way back to 1995 (2.0.5), my BSD experience goes back to 1985 with 42BSD, when I worked with/for two members of the 386BSD team which was forked to become FreeBSD. BTW I am sure I am not the rudest person (by any stretch of the imagination) to be on this list. For example one of the two people mentioned earlier (Jess Monroy, whose actions are well known thus not a personal attack on him... he is my friend after all) managed to annoy the 386BSD crowd so much that they forked it into FreeBSD. I first used Linux in 1993 when starting one of the first commercial grade ISP's in Los Angeles. I spent the better part of the earl 2000's attempting to find a loophole in GPL that allowed for commercial use without violating the spirit/letter of the license (hint: not possible without a dual license) and finally gave up in 2008 and switched back to using the BSD license for my work. But enough about background since it does not serve any purpose except for being evidence against your claims about me personally (being a newbie who is in some general unspecified way "unqualified"). The list has calmed down a lot since those days and until 6 months or so ago was nice and peaceful until a new round of "Linux is better than FreeBSD... get with the times or be left in the dust" type posts came around. This is when many Linux fanatics (not naming names since I am talking about the general trend not the specific posts) started coming onto the list and saying stuff that was simply not true about the BSD license or GPL. If any one person took that as a personal attack then they misread my comments completely (again it was a comment on a general mindset / loosely defined group of people). should consider to reread his own posts to the list, perhaps starting > with his subject of this thread. "Why are so many FreeBSD haters on > this list? (Troll bait)" Insulting "many" subscribers of this mailing > list as "haters" is rude. His mails are full of similar insults about > "evil" people and things, apart from this he insists to continue > spreading FUD. > Name a specific person I said was "evil" or a FreeBSD "hater". This is completely different than you directing the comment "You are just unqualified." ( https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2020-April/288864.htmlat me and not qualifying what you said about what I was unqualified at or that you where not directing the remark at me personally. BTW Calling a discussion argument "FUD" is a way of peremptorily dismissing someone's concerns without addressing them. Thus it is another personal attack and not a valid civilized debate tactic. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 13:20:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F6042B3DBF for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:20:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BzfC1rTSz4Bxf for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:20:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.139.224]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0BE344E680 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:20:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:20:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BzfC1rTSz4Bxf X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.55 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[224.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.832,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.09)[ip: (0.27), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.14), asn: 160(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.908,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:20:36 -0000 On 4/29/20 1:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > Hi, > > I'm joining this list since 2012 and don't remember anybody who ever > was nearly as rude, let alone ruder than Aryeh Friedman. This person > should consider to reread his own posts to the list, perhaps starting > with his subject of this thread. "Why are so many FreeBSD haters on > this list? (Troll bait)" Insulting "many" subscribers of this mailing > list as "haters" is rude. His mails are full of similar insults about > "evil" people and things, apart from this he insists to continue > spreading FUD. > > Every now and then off-topic threads are nice to read, as long as they > aren't the reason for dispeace. The moderation bit could be used to > sort out emails with continued threads, that do not belong to this list > and that in addition do cause dispeace. It doesn't require to ban a > subscriber or subscribers from the list. A long discussion regarding > legal questions, done by laymen, might belong to > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat . OTOH tinfoil > hat theories including insults about bad intentions behind FLOSS > licenses, are probably unwelcome on any FLOSS related mailing list. > > The OP of the threads in question does add insults and preposterous > allegation to his opinions. At the moment nobody seems to be upset about > other opinions, it's just that the tone of voice let those opinions > become unreasonable. I can't speak for other, but I like one or the > other license better than the GPL. What I dispute are the conclusions > based upon infamous misrepresentations. > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2020-April/author.html#start Ralf, my observations are as yours. I do know your name and names of several other people that person offending as I routinely read yours their insightful posts on the list. I do not know the name of this person, - did not until I read first of his recent rude posts. Alas, FreeBSD lists have this unbelievable tolerance to abusers since forever, and they will not change - I learned that long ago. The only thing that comes to my mind in this our case are the words of greatest writer Mark Twain (Samuel Clemence): “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” Valeri > > Regards, > Ralf > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 13:27:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A702B41D9 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:27:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Bznc6s0bz4CPv for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:27:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1588166821; x=1590758821; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=3EnIHKdcEF4UROXG4joEGEFyTwVn6xN8T/Nn4It17lg=; b=JCxxELazfi6nSxl0C0BqYhgbpA06/kq7xk/qZqRcApUYEfM5rLeyUk92somx7JVeC/35TcmzRZQVRXlpWSxpty0wAJGVs5FhUiGmpjygtY8PNDveZVY8JlSvYxrpg3YLdoATmwKFtiD8+qfPYrqhPlix9jvjCTlCXg3HPrCwGJk= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDQwNjE0NGMuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.3]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:26:51 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:26:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jTmjh-00057u-Ve for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:26:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:26:49 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) Message-Id: <20200429142649.af911873e65f8596153ced45@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Bznc6s0bz4CPv X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=JCxxELaz; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.966,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.21), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.30), asn: 7381(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000406144c.fbd3ca59563363562b59c844559a614f@email-od.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:27:02 -0000 On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:20:27 -0500 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > Alas, FreeBSD lists have this unbelievable tolerance to abusers since > forever, and they will not change - I learned that long ago. Most of us treat them the same as any other thread we're not interested in and ignore them (most of the time anyway). -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 15:05:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020D62B7B5D for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:05:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) Received: from admin.sibptus.ru (admin.sibptus.ru [IPv6:2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C1yn3Gj6z4L6F for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:05:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sibptus.ru; s=20181118; h=Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To; bh=widXj+skH8m0pyGe3tveWK4nfsmNEKtwehHu56xEGwY=; b=UXntxJTYXp6HXlY/VnEGx4hYI5 SHriedAjzOFXIVhw90Ocy5gXGZeWVU4Rn+R8uzzwjq+yZIThDeDfMhMYoJfSb1ya0qwLESanlRanE dP4EC/Zqj3iNubR7xuCcC/p7cSbuFWhKm7TKMc4A7TyAhyb402gYKw34SFdUdoTRR3VE=; Received: from vas by admin.sibptus.ru with local (Exim 4.93.0.4 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jToGg-0000Qq-Ej for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:04:58 +0700 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:04:58 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: sysutils/screen and its now default "screen.xterm-256color" terminal type Message-ID: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4sUOijqQbZv57TR" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://admin.sibptus.ru/~vas/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C1yn3Gj6z4L6F X-Spamd-Bar: -------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=sibptus.ru header.s=20181118 header.b=UXntxJTY; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=sibptus.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vas@sibptus.ru designates 2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vas@sibptus.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-8.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[sibptus.ru:s=20181118]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.24)[ip: (-9.89), ipnet: 2001:19f0:5000::/38(-4.94), asn: 20473(-1.30), country: US(-0.05)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[sibptus.ru:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sibptus.ru,none]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5000::/38, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:05:07 -0000 --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues, Have you noticed that the recent versions of sysutils/screen force the setting of $TERM to "screen.xterm-256color"? FreeBSD does not know this terminal type, which leads to different errors in programs running under screen ("using dumb terminal" etc). I've opened a PR https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D246029 but the maintainer is too quick to close it IMHO. Does anyone care to view/comment on the PR? --=20 Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJeqZeaAAoJEA2k8lmbXsY0+rQIAIjEuT6QbUdd0930kl4WbddD WH/rB6OCZDLOre5TERODbzhyhbU0yB6G2anD4zONaXzxHG7F/1ChjHNT0J4qYoe2 eyXSacr9pkOTDpa+cJ6nqIOemNeYS/oHNGWntxtQuu1ck/HTRAvb7emblqRNwtZw Oc9Zm2HY0G1p3KawJ0Hu87ip8ghxClEyWI4y4QbvFbLVZuvPlw8ufma6OsqCwgqh cynz4LBr7ElQbq3UHbjDdtznWA09k0Q697IF621nhVAqpK/YdsQDSQ3CPQvu00T+ lSGwepiinvkYrNqWla/in2ZjV+PAjIFm1tVodccbbQVEIPeiaGsSHicJnIgJFwo= =EWhU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 15:22:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C72F2B8351 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:22:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C2LK0gc2z4MMG for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:22:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCCC5C02DF; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:22:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=W hH3DewRPJUndS2k2rcT7BESedOYQ3Dm2ycIOmMBGhs=; b=IVUlbGPzeeCwToxfk tA8Jo+T+opDG9PDIe+Ob6c3RLBzacPw5aFDl2ywT1RzMVSakBXiHYaLZKUIY+CQ9 6QarN9g8CUj5feDCwhHmG5UcFDrhIQslj5E7VVwEsap3hnI4XmRz28LUPZD7aWt3 PiprfQF9Tw0WCRv6HCJyVxQYgoc2bVP7T0fOWAbnHz81Y5vOysKO0k22xgLUtELG vciI8SNH3Rx4fDyDg2HxCmfnXO8mlCZIE85oH0eQJS3nINZUcKJ1x3H8OpNJwhn0 3baQTAGXjZESV+pjj6h8RQ9pmvwKZNNjvI0eNTioGVwvcTjsTMrX7/OiBBWFB7oy 81eBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=WhH3DewRPJUndS2k2rcT7BESedOYQ3Dm2ycIOmMBG hs=; b=HPnwcpKfoQxp3giUEAn4XdNirXHzmgAGx6MhQn2FtlPX3aZ8rUp1mN2mn /T5QXenDGwRKNMxdfqWB/qeQkYg8oTqMphfKObfNmmxs0Yftm/dDFvuDZOOYsCXa DvYgLl/0ApW849EOV8tpuhhSvzGUuz4Ni9fL4ABDSAoep7rtIhA8ZMByaYdj8q8r SsNFYFH4z2DmGS+acXyOJT3YA0XUHI3/UzDSU9HmFrXxOiRiFcK8h2rw63xguNVL 5JdNlwT+i4BoZkDawNONUW6lVnwawKscUZ0s6BAqEzpsTQ7p2c5HLw3sfcOhPxjV DPbqsKRCB5kzNm3uFOJi5R/QWYEYw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrieefgdekjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthejre dttdefheenucfhrhhomhepjghurhhiucfrrghnkhhovhcuoeihphgrnhhkohhvsehfrghs thhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgffggfevfeektddvvdetueeutd ejjefgveehueekveehhfevfeevtdefvdduhfeinecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrhgvvggsshgu rdhorhhgnecukfhppeekhedrudejgedrvddtjedrvddujeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeihphgrnhhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghi lhdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [85.174.207.217]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E49143065EF9; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: sysutils/screen and its now default "screen.xterm-256color" terminal type To: Victor Sudakov , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> From: Yuri Pankov Message-ID: <9dc5f37c-11f3-4b08-9b0c-fd45442e51ac@fastmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:21:58 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C2LK0gc2z4MMG X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.com header.s=fm2 header.b=IVUlbGPz; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=HPnwcpKf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ypankov@fastmail.com designates 66.111.4.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ypankov@fastmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:66.111.4.27:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.207.174.85.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[27.4.111.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[217.207.174.85.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.80)[-0.799,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.86)[0.856,0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.83), ipnet: 66.111.4.0/24(-4.89), asn: 11403(-2.69), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:22:02 -0000 Victor Sudakov wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Have you noticed that the recent versions of sysutils/screen force the > setting of $TERM to "screen.xterm-256color"? FreeBSD does not know this > terminal type, which leads to different errors in programs running under > screen ("using dumb terminal" etc). > > I've opened a PR > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=246029 but the > maintainer is too quick to close it IMHO. > > Does anyone care to view/comment on the PR? $ screen --version Screen version 4.08.00 (GNU) 05-Feb-20 Not a screen user myself, I just installed the latest screen from ports to check, and not seeing this behavior: without ~/.screenrc I get $TERM of "screen", and with "term xterm256-color" in ~/.screenrc I get exactly that in $TERM. What are your other related settings? Or could it be stale system-wide configuration somewhere, stale patches? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 15:27:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FE52B8732 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:27:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C2Sq499jz4McB for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:27:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id k1so3059145wrx.4 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:27:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=309n/Ly7gcLAB3dGDyR1LQU19i2Xp5fyUfmqpRipeDg=; b=X/VBhS4NzqQWQRiKCHzJfRGOn9iFig1m2OgmiMUkSXInaiIURK+75eX9zZmfb3eiyB feOk0eU+b6W3n8CjRsPNh35tnIQVhWSFM1ZkfeTmfjluFNxkoKewfY8rUX3DZ+Psy+UC AQV+AVKu5PQAtzP42lpRERFr4clCoUZ93qPvATkMHoOsv6ra6fKj0Mg8VVj5F+tTYoKF ZNeSfaaChuhTizkoNneNw8SDraIDWc2de8JzqIIMe7NfSKW1gGo1QSPtDKIWljIN+/lh SbAEnbhvqSfdUnIrm0IM6mk8E4aB5BZ9zAC+wNFdYSceLiBcAafx6DVBqIOAIQIgy5a4 dXew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=309n/Ly7gcLAB3dGDyR1LQU19i2Xp5fyUfmqpRipeDg=; b=PpYhqEEegT6hK2+VJZS0UohS6X6kd66mg3y/CGARztbA4EcJJZDfEmuXEHUSB5CIWn vzV9YMr9Kl2IuQj3xBiZaigBaNU9Nvko+jyb8K/8IZoVlVKvxNEBeRo7LJTr4MBApQGp e3Pegv2bjgcmab9kqEkjgBmdEtnYHvlYE3L4DmSy5g/lztNFMRVrTzrAMu3XM1RhLQHF 9P4p8hqVmwNg+dd1wDIRQw6ufhSdU8j19/vyf33FXw6ADH/vN3AR7Zxzw9wMgiHavqHb 5aKTWNaja93ujGR0kA9nDpao/x3/sIlnE2XPdbzG7lZzw7jajMxrAIyaaGlnoQa96dsA ZWGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuagOd/Yk3ZbKtCCe+0GrIoK1gI75CVcsAhVcPeSfR4aufAWKFXR SBcgDp32sNUzXENGAftQd4ijfyEQjR6MC60QGpjpGRZYCtc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJxeZDEnzjzjxQU/SaYW6DO9CwA7a7RUE+lCiAEqTWI1xqSA88J1jiofpib4aDk9oAFqAtcfz+ujdDCD0WjO64= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6582:: with SMTP id q2mr40157763wru.343.1588174057467; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:27:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> In-Reply-To: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:26:57 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: sysutils/screen and its now default "screen.xterm-256color" terminal type To: Victor Sudakov Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C2Sq499jz4McB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=X/VBhS4N; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::429) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-2.42)[ip: (-9.32), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.32), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:27:40 -0000 After I found out TMUX I have never used screen anymore :-) TMUX can not only store your session in the background, create new windows, etc etc, but also split your terminal in horizontal and vertical directions. This is amazing to work on large resolution screens (even text mode uefi stuff), will also store your working session when Xorg crash or you simply loose remote connection, and works amazingly fine with UTF-8 terminal. You can have VIM (with split windows), shell, compiler, and debugger, all on one terminal screen! You operate tmux almost the same as screen except Ctrl-B is the prefix not Ctrl-A :-) https://github.com/tmux/tmux/wiki -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 15:50:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5F42B9527 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@boosten.org) Received: from smtpq6.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net (smtpq6.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net [212.54.42.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C2zG3zdkz4QnX for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:50:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@boosten.org) Received: from [212.54.42.134] (helo=smtp10.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq6.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jToyj-0000zJ-0d; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:29 +0200 Received: from 84-25-247-31.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl ([84.25.247.31] helo=smtp.boosten.org) by smtp10.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jToy6-0001eA-KJ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:49:50 +0200 Received: from amon.boosten.org (amon.boosten.org [192.168.13.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.boosten.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 899B210570; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:49:49 +0200 (CEST) From: freebsd@boosten.org Message-Id: <5E3B5C80-D34F-4DE3-ADB0-5C6231AA9DF9@boosten.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: sysutils/screen and its now default "screen.xterm-256color" terminal type Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:49:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Victor Sudakov , FreeBSD Questions Mailing List To: Tomasz CEDRO References: <20200429150458.GA1475@admin.sibptus.ru> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-SourceIP: 84.25.247.31 X-Ziggo-spambar: / X-Ziggo-spamscore: 0.0 X-Ziggo-spamreport: CMAE Analysis: v=2.3 cv=bMGN3M2Z c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=JWBJsaPp29SgP5DpYRBqZw==:17 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10 a=GUfD1UccAAAA:8 a=xC04dQRTgYHkIfuMfuMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=f12skzL4NhsA:10 a=hT0gh2zCJDgA:10 a=USIufK69GNi5UyjI:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=-EiQn41SfbDD0E51JUit:22 X-Ziggo-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Flag: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C2zG3zdkz4QnX X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[boosten.org:s=myselector]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:212.54.32.0/19]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[boosten.org:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[boosten.org,quarantine]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.30)[ipnet: 212.54.32.0/20(-4.08), asn: 33915(-2.47), country: NL(0.03)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[169.42.54.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[31.247.25.84.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33915, ipnet:212.54.32.0/20, country:NL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:50:40 -0000 > Op 29 apr. 2020, om 17:26 heeft Tomasz CEDRO het = volgende geschreven: >=20 > TMUX can not only store your session in the background, create new > windows, etc etc, but also split your terminal in horizontal and > vertical directions. Hmm, screen does the same thing. Peter= From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 15:51:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6589C2B9575 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:51:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@radel.com) Received: from radel.com (fly.radel.com [70.184.242.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.radel.com", Issuer "GoGetSSL RSA DV CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C2zl3jZmz4RDq for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@radel.com) X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.19.2 (ClamAV engine v0.99.2) X-ExtFilter: Niversoft's DomainKeys Helper DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; d=radel.com; s=20170108.radel; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=JBIUtWsUj8Yo67+xBOUpt4FZinUyXgXA3lB+guB/aK60GlWrDWAM1KY9w8kqfW071Z hdmUSGj2ZNpU4hNGInoJ4lc9F3T2BC7t4nsM8wIO18+mzAzEzcZ6syxePlOnMcG09Ugu ungWcuQv0zhJq3wLIXObN6yakDSI4vkWymaQVKifkXXxq084ReXeYdLgbY1qsZpIQeW9 aWkGOwpYvWYfzmZQs8ODfOFHt6VZ6IHwC6fwe7OBzbvTtWBjDrII7p03WIQYaUzIIoKO TDHfl+56EdemIzyyS8KvVR8FATif7wm8qmfAJoj7oSx60gIh9kFw5X/TxlptgsXjPum4 R7FA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=radel.com; s=20170108.radel; t=1588175450; x=1588780250; q=dns/txt; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date: User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; bh=9l70muo2iDC TXMrR9vsFmU0ss4HJkXjOvrQimApr6fU=; b=wt69294TM6nFk4uYKljHoWnUMz/ 09cwvX38QjcXX54LBUpjrflQvk73TGVwk0vMBr43Y7hS5iVZ1gsC7kHpT2T6X4n5 KiG9dpPZyawwflsgL8eHKCk47vyCp2dwO75MfjC7rLnpMKGmEoD2q1xmHAoBFd4P dCkrNii6OFxTSlEm70D9pA9H5THUAiLs3kNY4JpR7FEkIzWae9EEn5k5FwDu9ij6 T70+KK6HNucryEfD+PO7S42sreOlu2xtQpiQiAgs55a1su2b8XBmTjx8GQvR58YW n5wqmUXj6JoLDBbKNdQKWNoJgNjWe0p16OUb1Hboyf2wEzDPFxI1fVy9BCw== Received: from [2001:470:880a:4389:f50d:a53f:c293:ede7] (account jon@radel.com HELO haralson.local) by radel.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14 _community_) with ESMTPSA id 2134181 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:50:50 +0000 Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200428112734.5028df19@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20200429085247.72ebfa2a@archlinux> <20200429142649.af911873e65f8596153ced45@sohara.org> From: Jon Radel Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 11:50:50 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200429142649.af911873e65f8596153ced45@sohara.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms090902020003090602050207" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C2zl3jZmz4RDq X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=radel.com header.s=20170108.radel header.b=wt69294T; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=radel.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jon@radel.com designates 70.184.242.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jon@radel.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[radel.com:s=20170108.radel]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:70.184.242.160/28]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[radel.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[radel.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[radel.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.942,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(0.41)[asn: 22773(2.11), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22773, ipnet:70.184.240.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:51:05 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090902020003090602050207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US On 4/29/20 09:26, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 08:20:27 -0500 > Valeri Galtsev wrote: > >> Alas, FreeBSD lists have this unbelievable tolerance to abusers since = >> forever, and they will not change - I learned that long ago. > Most of us treat them the same as any other thread we're not > interested in and ignore them (most of the time anyway). > Quite.=C2=A0 I've paid enough attention to notice that the religious wars= seem to have moved on to heartfelt arguments about who is more worthy of excommunication.=C2=A0 I've been vaguely considering twiddling with my ki= ll file but that's such a bother in my MUA. The things people do to amuse themselves during lock-downs. --=20 --Jon Radel jon@radel.com --------------ms090902020003090602050207 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC C9owggXmMIIDzqADAgECAhBqm+E4O/8ra58B1dm4p1JWMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMIGFMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDErMCkGA1UEAxMiQ09NT0RPIFJTQSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0xMzAxMTAwMDAwMDBaFw0yODAxMDkyMzU5NTla MIGXMQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQH EwdTYWxmb3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE9MDsGA1UEAxM0Q09NT0RP IFJTQSBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQTCCASIwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAL6znlesKHZ1QBbHOAOY08YYdiFQ8yV5C0y1oNF9 Olg+nKcxLqf2NHbZhGra0D00SOTq9bus3/mxgUsg/Wh/eXQ0pnp8tZ8XZWAnlyKMpjL+qUBy RjXCA6RQyDMqVaVUkbIr5SU0RDX/kSsKwer3H1pT/HUrBN0X8sKtPTdGX8XAWt/VdMLBrZBl gvnkCos+KQWWCo63OTTqRvaq8aWccm+KOMjTcE6s2mj6RkalweyDI7X+7U5lNo6jzC8RTXtV V4/Vwdax720YpMPJQaDaElmOupyTf1Qib+cpukNJnQmwygjD8m046DQkLnpXNCAGjuJy1F5N ATksUsbfJAr7FLUCAwEAAaOCATwwggE4MB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFLuvfgI9+qbxPISOre44mOzZ MjLUMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSCr2yM+MX+lmF86B89K3FIXsSLwDAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCAYYwEgYD VR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADARBgNVHSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwTAYDVR0fBEUwQzBBoD+gPYY7 aHR0cDovL2NybC5jb21vZG9jYS5jb20vQ09NT0RPUlNBQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbkF1dGhvcml0 eS5jcmwwcQYIKwYBBQUHAQEEZTBjMDsGCCsGAQUFBzAChi9odHRwOi8vY3J0LmNvbW9kb2Nh LmNvbS9DT01PRE9SU0FBZGRUcnVzdENBLmNydDAkBggrBgEFBQcwAYYYaHR0cDovL29jc3Au Y29tb2RvY2EuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAA4ICAQB4XLKBKDRPPO5fVs6fl1bsj6JrF/bz 9kkIBtTYLzXN30D+03Hj6OxCDBEaIeNmsBhrJmuubvyE7HtoSmR809AgcYboW+rcTNZ/8u/H v+GTrNI/AhqX2/kiQNxmgUPt/eJPs92Qclj0HnVyy9TnSvGkSDU7I5Px+TbO+88G4zipA2ps ZaWeEykgzClZlPz1FjTCkk77ZXp5cQYYexE6zeeN4/0OqqoAloFrjAF4o50YJafX8mnahjp3 I2Y2mkjhk0xQfhNqbzlLWPoT3m7j7U26u7zg6swjOq8hITYc3/np5tM5aVyu6t99p17bTbY7 +1RTWBviN9YJzK8HxzObXYWBf/L+VGOYNsQDTxAk0Hbvb1j6KjUhg7fO294F29QIhhmiNOr8 4JHoy+fNLpfvYc/Q9EtFOI5ISYgOxLk3nD/whbUe9rmEQXLp8MB933Ij474gwwCPUpwv9mj2 PMnXoc7mbrS22XUSeTwxCTP9bcmUdp4jmIoWfhQm7X9w/Zgddg+JZ/YnIHOwsGsaTUgj7fIv xqith7DoJC91WJ8Lce3CVJqb1XWeKIJ84F7YLXZN0oa7TktYgDdmQVxYkZo1c5noaDKH9Oq9 cbm/vOYRUM1cWcef20Wkyk5S/GFyyPJwG0fR1nRas3DqAf4cXxMiEKcff7PNa4M3RGTqH0pW R8p6EjCCBewwggTUoAMCAQICEHQDryTAYaEsgncP8aGW6o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwgZcx CzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVyIE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1Nh bGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1pdGVkMT0wOwYDVQQDEzRDT01PRE8gUlNB IENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTE4MDMwNDAw MDAwMFoXDTIxMDMwMzIzNTk1OVowgfoxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMQ4wDAYDVQQREwUyMjE1MDEL MAkGA1UECBMCVkExFDASBgNVBAcTC1NwcmluZ2ZpZWxkMRowGAYDVQQJExE2OTE3IFJpZGdl d2F5IERyLjEVMBMGA1UEChMMSm9uIFQuIFJhZGVsMTIwMAYDVQQLEylJc3N1ZWQgdGhyb3Vn aCBKb24gVC4gUmFkZWwgRS1QS0kgTWFuYWdlcjEfMB0GA1UECxMWQ29ycG9yYXRlIFNlY3Vy ZSBFbWFpbDESMBAGA1UEAxMJSm9uIFJhZGVsMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1qb25AcmFkZWwu Y29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAtK/dFQxMTnVPcP1TI09m30v8 rSG/VWSFWfFvu/2jzPkNL+ivx6A4LNUbqw4CS73GIKcbp8IrpNQz2oQV6mTv+KVJzJMf8GjA y8EzZjhc2tAXL+Q57omCTuAc6cw2KDYFL0aNWX4CEe/LqfoBDKpJF7HCrwwus55+tTEkAY8j tRkQRMHf47YQVJjD/4pdC/h+7jjI0oSgh1npT7Q3K47g6IkVzjhiH8LCsCSVYaLzRZfgcl3s 0GLE858PV/84l5d/hUVD0u9J2EdKpf+hnFqZnA3qw9R0xFQIE6yOkUvhALw1zxXaiGj0047a gBE2Bhv2UIlj6Q0zPa5kRYDy9vBI6QIDAQABo4IBzTCCAckwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUgq9sjPjF /pZhfOgfPStxSF7Ei8AwHQYDVR0OBBYEFHS/Ewun4pYC9Lla5kkmj4zo7tKcMA4GA1UdDwEB /wQEAwIFoDAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjBG BgNVHSAEPzA9MDsGDCsGAQQBsjEBAgEDBTArMCkGCCsGAQUFBwIBFh1odHRwczovL3NlY3Vy ZS5jb21vZG8ubmV0L0NQUzBaBgNVHR8EUzBRME+gTaBLhklodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNvbW9kb2Nh LmNvbS9DT01PRE9SU0FDbGllbnRBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbmFuZFNlY3VyZUVtYWlsQ0EuY3Js MIGLBggrBgEFBQcBAQR/MH0wVQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGSWh0dHA6Ly9jcnQuY29tb2RvY2EuY29t L0NPTU9ET1JTQUNsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5jcnQwJAYI KwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNvbW9kb2NhLmNvbTAYBgNVHREEETAPgQ1qb25AcmFk ZWwuY29tMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAA4IBAQBUNLBptNFZRBkOUPOCI9TPM6QauLK6jojtbxZO XWvZfKvq8ukWUZTPtaDS5UjsMhlxLf/Crv8HkiVXSzC36cVQyjNjl1u+u/Sbl/6q/TfQk+aK 5jzDd4onQVzlfE33ymtZJgh+4dMPWKuXjRS0OyMLzv3mYCvFO83l1G9rBiaCEfFJHKgVGY1z 3ZU/gsPCQ2a0xf3908lwl5H3SPB3ZzLWDf41o5zV70HXfsgP862KzxU9t46XBGZ8TRl/5fl+ Xj2KQdpyWlNZUS00/UHznxeFO5+bkNaOg24BjwfBOWi0D47CE+6BRWvtrmgciWxefUuYeeIy Qr58KK8DlBCkVF06MYIENTCCBDECAQEwgawwgZcxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJH cmVhdGVyIE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBD QSBMaW1pdGVkMT0wOwYDVQQDEzRDT01PRE8gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBh bmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhB0A68kwGGhLIJ3D/GhluqOMA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIC WTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDA0MjkxNTUw NTBaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCDlA/y0QlVz1tRYZLp3r4rxGbjy+ByHP4lDAmc0PbGi6TBs BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjALBglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcw DgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEo MIG9BgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxga8wgawwgZcxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdCMRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVy IE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoTEUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1p dGVkMT0wOwYDVQQDEzRDT01PRE8gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2Vj dXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhB0A68kwGGhLIJ3D/GhluqOMIG/BgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBr6CBrDCB lzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMH U2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxPTA7BgNVBAMTNENPTU9ETyBS U0EgQ2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUgRW1haWwgQ0ECEHQDryTAYaEs gncP8aGW6o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAs+ICBv867EiR7eyP8KYMDPme3MGPUcEPdYBJ 8beGa7ROEM5YLIaqpGQHC1gl1GJqC7H91m3QNJWdM9UEi4FG/pPTJcDA3kwfM4vWovW4CZcl EO3VRyBf9/HQIK4vj1MTHMAgUvyLoznqDphI+pzfKtOZzbeEtMzZm2J4Tu1kMEJRfjzhqsMR 80Tud4s8PAmc4B+pYNHrRbuKGERCzvZffKyxeMasddwcH05nr99zjX+thB5bT94SMB/iSBNP FSoss/Pomv/4Z2daxX8XZEMQsVSp6oc7gnX+rEi9RR1US89CtiqTOGT9FHrC7w6vZwssvqIn jRIzHF0MUwi83GB4vgAAAAAAAA== --------------ms090902020003090602050207-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 16:52:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B78C2BB728 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:52:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jester@panix.com) Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C4Lr1wDfz4WVS for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:52:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jester@panix.com) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C4Lq5jtxzlcc for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by panix2.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 834) id 49C4Lq4lhHz1ZVd; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:52:35 -0400 From: jester@panix.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Drivers for NIC (igb vs em)? Message-ID: <20200429165235.GA17720@panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C4Lr1wDfz4WVS X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jester@panix.com designates 166.84.1.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jester@panix.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[89.1.84.166.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.18]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:166.84.0.0/16:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[89.1.84.166.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.39)[ip: (-9.49), ipnet: 166.84.0.0/16(-4.12), asn: 2033(-3.29), country: US(-0.05)]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[panix.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2033, ipnet:166.84.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:52:36 -0000 This is (I think) a basic networking hardware question. I'm actually running FreeNAS 11.3, but I assume this relates to the underlying system. I have a motherboard with two built-in NICs. These appear as em0 and igb0. I'm just wondering why these are created with different drivers, instead of as em0 and em1 or igb0 and igb1. Is this something I have any control over? (I originally came to this question when I was considering using link aggregation with LACP, and it's recommended to do this only with the same NIC driver. I've subsequently decided not to do this, but remain curious about the underlying driver issue.) If it's relevant, the output of lspci for the Ethernet controllers only: $ sudo lspci -v [...] 00:1f.6 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Connection (2) I219-LM (rev 31) Subsystem: ASRock Incorporation Device 15b7 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at df100000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [c8] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [d0] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ Capabilities: [e0] PCI Advanced Features 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation I210 Gigabit Network Connection (rev 03) Subsystem: ASRock Incorporation Device 1533 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 Memory at df000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) I/O ports at e000 Memory at df080000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable+ 64bit+ Capabilities: [70] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=5 Masked- Capabilities: [a0] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting Capabilities: [140] Device Serial Number d0-50-99-ff-ff-c1-f6-ab Capabilities: [1a0] Transaction Processing Hints Thanks. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 17:46:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175842BCC67 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:46:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49C5Xm462bz4Z3W for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:46:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7B65C03FB; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:46:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=t /nsh4PFR65qDoP6IdD8mQ7bRrsTmaMVtQv3PrHpUto=; b=EaZ3LgbItavgN/paj izXqUcD/Q9AMx+1FhT6CsynuOgyDq6nokfyA77gbsW5FRNCQCJeMvQohVhz3yavx vQMtLpw9LYXlvRrauiCRu/kmJtZCN/W5bam0A2pAiRZRnkrdxL8LPkE2vImqVo+X ei6eA3a2poPBmQI3n70Yl6Fmkel4VGHCjwwjiHcCpaRfh3M0NuDIyfGzKBherHEe +jEIP194mbxb7gAc02W83+42uO6QZRiTVf0H6FKufxDlJirJaPwl3XHS8GhJp+Tm ObboritOJyIK0Yln8pzzN8kkk0a+Gpoj+adamaSdWkKyrEaVwMXQYCf8sHNli+Rw jd5Jg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=t/nsh4PFR65qDoP6IdD8mQ7bRrsTmaMVtQv3PrHpU to=; b=k9Hxop9fmLBJYJStYqF2e6yprfFsfp0w6+nl23TEtSTasNmObtIyJoMR5 t+x+TuL3hG+dxP9RWV7SMRJ7SS8Hb175Ewz38xY5m4hbPyrAwIts8Tt0RlpJkCkP PAQJ0WDKDPnNBqeYuGYtdMO758hHciZEZEJibfXZJ/Eqt/rMuAjO8dUx+F//OdD1 BJ7KQB+e+SgcZwplCE5mUX7xavk8aBDAX2fObNK7Leb2TQ/A8u0fCEOrTbG9WjTa Ab1j4gftDS2e1fR7kBCcfoE7gC+sZ7weptu4ns66HEi3+Yt79fe/qQBCU/A36Dqx t2eSbRq+/mqPgeJA5//C1/yLEAkTw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrieefgdduudeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtje ertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpegjuhhrihcurfgrnhhkohhvuceohihprghnkhhovhesfhgr shhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevteeilefghfffgeffteefie dttdfgudetgeduvddtgffguefftdeiteelhfegteenucfkphepkeehrddujeegrddvtdej rddvudejnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomh ephihprghnkhhovhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [85.174.207.217]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 46D9E3065EB5; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Drivers for NIC (igb vs em)? To: jester@panix.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200429165235.GA17720@panix.com> From: Yuri Pankov Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:46:14 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200429165235.GA17720@panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49C5Xm462bz4Z3W X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.com header.s=fm2 header.b=EaZ3LgbI; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=k9Hxop9f; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ypankov@fastmail.com designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ypankov@fastmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.08 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[28.4.111.66.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.18]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:66.111.4.28:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.207.174.85.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[28.4.111.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[217.207.174.85.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.81)[-0.812,0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.991,0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.83), ipnet: 66.111.4.0/24(-4.89), asn: 11403(-2.69), country: US(-0.05)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:46:17 -0000 jester@panix.com wrote: > > This is (I think) a basic networking hardware question. I'm actually running FreeNAS 11.3, but I assume this relates to the underlying system. > > I have a motherboard with two built-in NICs. These appear as em0 and igb0. I'm just wondering why these are created with different drivers, instead of as em0 and em1 or igb0 and igb1. Is this something I have any control over? > > (I originally came to this question when I was considering using link aggregation with LACP, and it's recommended to do this only with the same NIC driver. I've subsequently decided not to do this, but remain curious about the underlying driver issue.) The two were merged starting with FreeBSD 12.0 under the "em" name; I don't know the exact historical reasons those were separate though. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 21:18:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72B2D2C2D5E for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:18:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from starikarp@dismail.de) Received: from mx1.dismail.de (mx1.dismail.de [78.46.223.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.dismail.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49CBFL1Xmxz3L9t for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:18:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from starikarp@dismail.de) Received: from mx1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 001ddd36; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:18:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp1.dismail.de ( [10.240.26.11]) by mx1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id b6eb8fb1; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:18:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp1.dismail.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a9d78520; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:18:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dismail.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id d9a1203f (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:18:07 -0400 From: ajtiM To: Robert Huff Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Firefox 76.0,1 Message-ID: <20200429171807.294a1fac@dismail.de> In-Reply-To: <24232.59798.585406.321666@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <20200428191142.5cf10bbc@dismail.de> <24232.59798.585406.321666@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49CBFL1Xmxz3L9t X-Spamd-Bar: ------- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[dismail.de:s=20190914]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[dismail.de.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:78.46.223.134]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.20)[ip: (-9.91), ipnet: 78.46.0.0/15(0.50), asn: 24940(-1.55), country: DE(-0.02)]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[134.223.46.78.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[dismail.de:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[dismail.de,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:78.46.0.0/15, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:18:15 -0000 On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:42:30 -0400 Robert Huff wrote: >=20 > ajtiM via freebsd-questions writes: >=20 > > I do not have installed Python 2.7 but today I want to update > > Firefox to version 76.0,1 and it pull me Python 2.7. > > I have checkmarks on DBUS, FFMPEG, GCONF, OPTIMAZED_CFLAGS, > > PROFILE and SNDIO. > > make > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nspr>=3D4.25 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: nss>=3D3.51.1 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: icu>=3D64.1,1 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libevent>=3D2.1.8 - fo= und > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: harfbuzz>=3D2.6.4 - fo= und > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: graphite2>=3D1.3.14 - = found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: png>=3D1.6.35 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libvpx>=3D1.8.2 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: py37-sqlite3>0 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: v4l_compat>0 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: autoconf-2.13 - fou= nd > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: nasm - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: yasm - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: zip - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: llvm90>0 - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust-cbindgen>=3D0.13.= 1 - > > found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: rust>=3D1.41 - fo= und > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python3.7 - > > found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: node - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/clang90 - > > found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libnotify>0 - fou= nd > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/include/sndio.= h - > > found =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on executable: gmake - found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: libiconv>=3D1.14_11 - = found > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on package: pkgconf>=3D1.3.0_1 - f= ound > > =3D=3D=3D> firefox-76.0,1 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python2.7 - > > not >=20 > _If_ I have this right: > Firefox requires pkgconf ... which - if DOCS=3Dyes - requires > ImageMagic ... which requires (in your case) python 2.7. > See if you can rebuild your versiou of ImageMagic against > python 3.7, and this should go away. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Respectfully, >=20 >=20 > Robert Huff >=20 >=20 >=20 Thank you but I do not have ImageMagick. I did build Inkscape 0.92.5 which use GraphicsMagick. And portmaster --check-depends Checking all packages: 100% --=20 Ernst Lubitsch=E2=80=99s Ninotchka:=20 =E2=80=9C=E2=80=98Waiter! A cup of coffee without cream, please!=E2=80=99 = =E2=80=98I=E2=80=99m sorry, sir, we have no cream, only milk, so can it be a coffee without milk?=E2=80=99=E2= =80=9D=20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 21:28:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19FF2C316F for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:28:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49CBSd6DYBz3Lg3 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:28:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03TLRsZ4002399 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:27:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03TLRshr002398 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:27:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 16:27:54 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: questions list Subject: Re: Updating from 11.3-stable to 12.1-stable? Message-ID: <20200429212754.GA1510@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20200427200111.GA39823@rancor.immure.com> <20200428130853.GB39823@rancor.immure.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200428130853.GB39823@rancor.immure.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49CBSd6DYBz3Lg3 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.05), asn: 7018(1.15), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.85)[0.851,0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:28:02 -0000 Well, here are the steps that I took to upgrade my 11.3-STABLE system to 12.1-STABLE. May not be the best/most efficient but they worked for me and I thought someone else may benefit from them. 1) Make a backup of the current system 2) Delete everything in /usr/src, making certin to remove the files and directories that start with a dot ("."). 3) Delete everything in /usr/obj. 4) Download (via svn) the new FreeBSD release /usr/src to be updated to. 5) Build the new world from the source. 6) Build the new kernel from the source. 7) Run "mergemaster -Fp" to update files that may be needing update prior to doing the installworld. 8) Run "make installworld" in /usr/src. 9) Run "make installkernel" in /usr/src. 10) Run "mergemaster -iU" do update any remaining files that need to be updated. 11) Reboot the system. 12) Run "pkg update" to update the pkg database to the new system's level. 13) Run "pkg upgrade" to update all packages to reflect the new system's level. 14) Reboot the system. Bob -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 29 22:30:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB7D2C4A49 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:30:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trond.endrestol@ximalas.info) Received: from enterprise.ximalas.info (enterprise.ximalas.info [IPv6:2001:700:1100:1::8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ximalas.info", Issuer "Hostmaster ximalas.info" (n