Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:39:26 -0400 From: Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> To: "User Questions" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Ask stupid questions and you'll get a stupid answers, was: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200727153926.2c8bbfc3@scorpio.seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <CAGBxaXmqP81uOZThWPQ64_L_F1pT7CzRXZYvzsF95=JCE3528Q@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAGBxaX=Ktr-pqtT8FU37ajkYonVLYT_WhSenn23Tj5b=i0d-8g@mail.gmail.com> <20200726151835.GA35966@admin.sibptus.ru> <27ca8c6c-6b06-6ad4-7af0-2b88f51a3856@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200726165212.a0ac28ce104b9dfd009cc4c5@sohara.org> <20200727025242.GA48950@admin.sibptus.ru> <04bb7095-3e62-22d7-9db7-cfba3c66247b@kicp.uchicago.edu> <alpine.BSF.2.23.453.2007270732330.893@fbsd.local> <b9046235-27f0-4305-fbe7-4ed431e79439@yuripv.dev> <CAGBxaX=jy5ZB6GxeB0tii-gd1rmS1h_mHH9g71puO%2Bud_h3kdg@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.23.453.2007270839320.972@fbsd.local> <CAGBxaXn=TORaWE0RMDv1Z6p3Vk48BHcYtF0RukrCHfieG_BQsA@mail.gmail.com> <20200727063036.31316d93@scorpio.seibercom.net> <CAGBxaXn_BV%2BZ50G1pk682D=WnYHYhMYD3%2BEdWZ6Orp5PyKo75Q@mail.gmail.com> <20200727082427.3dd26eeb@scorpio.seibercom.net> <CAGBxaXmAkmbJqzJZpQahHNYrKQcTv8h%2B-mKTRzHz6Zc%2BZ=aBig@mail.gmail.com> <20200727121736.4f95993e@scorpio.seibercom.net> <CAGBxaXmqP81uOZThWPQ64_L_F1pT7CzRXZYvzsF95=JCE3528Q@mail.gmail.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--Sig_/tOTtJDpaWkGuoWUsSBERABv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:47:44 -0400, Aryeh Friedman stated: >On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 12:18 PM Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 08:49:50 -0400, Aryeh Friedman stated: =20 >> >On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 8:24 AM Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> wrote: >> > =20 >> >> =20 >> >> >> >The handbook says mailing lists are the prefered way to >> >> >> >communicate about FreeBSD so suggesting the forum is pointless >> >> >> >if you want to get the widest possible input. To quote "The >> >> >> >mailing lists are the most direct way of addressing questions >> >> >> >or opening a technical discussion to a concentrated FreeBSD >> >> >> >audience." =20 >> >> >> >> >> >> In keeping with my 'KISS' principal, why not simply start a new >> >> >> list, appropriately titled: "FreeBSD vs. Linux". In order to >> >> >> insure a viable user base, follow the same procedure as the the >> >> >> regular FreeBSD questions list and allow postings sans any >> >> >> preregistration. =20 >> >> > >> >> >I am not the one suggesting it (please stop putting words in my >> >> >mouth) it is the person I was replying to that suggested it. =20 >> >> >> >> You obviously suffer from a persecutory attitude. I simply >> >> replied to the post in the order I receive it. >> >> =20 >> > >> >I am quite sure that is not the case. You just don't know how to >> >clearly state what you are replying to, instead you do so in a way >> >that is (purposely?) unclear and thus imply stuff about someone who >> >you obviously don't like (me) that may or may not be true (I never >> >stated an opinion one way or the other). =20 >> >> Wow, I neither like nor dislike you. You are not that important to >> me. You really do suffer from some for of paranoia. >> =20 >> >> Seriously, Aryeh have you ever considered that possibility that >> >> you suffer from a form of Oppositional Defiant behavior? >> >> =20 >> > >> >A truly odd comment from someone who constantly recommends Linux on >> >a FreeBSD mailing list after being told in the thread that the >> >question is about FreeBSD *NOT* Linux! And then after being told >> >that Linux is not a viable option still pushes the matter. Most of >> >my blunt statements about the Linux idea (none of them were about >> >you personally, where yours are very personal) were due to an >> >attempt to show that Linux was a complete non-option in my case and >> >that suggesting it was worse than useless (it was insulting). So >> >a small personal question: tell me why I should listen to someone >> >who doesn't even have enough courage in their convictions to leave >> >their email address on an email they sent? =20 >> >> I never recommended Linux over FreeBSD, or any other OS as a >> absolute.=20 > >That contradicts your comments earlier in the thread: "If the user is >going to run "X" with "KDE" for instance, FreeBSD is NOT the OS of >choice.".... "You claim to be not interested in 100% compatibility and >top performance and then bitch that you are not >getting the results you expected under the environment you are >operating it under." (BTW both where said *AFTER* I said I didn't care >about either one very clearly *MULTIPLE* times)... you are still >persisting in saying it when you claim using FreeBSD is not KISS for >any use case that involves X (again after I presented just a use case >in very concrete terms).. > >In short, make up your damn mind about what you are saying. Either you >are saying there is nothing wrong with FreeBSD for my use case or your >saying it sucks (you have said both in this thread). I take back my original assessment of you, you are, in fact, dumb. There is absolutely no contradiction in what I said. Using FreeBSD for "X" and "KDE" is NOT the optimal setup. FreeBSD is simply NOT the optimal OS for that pairing. Now, if a user is not interested in or requires optimal performance, then that is their decision to make. FreeBSD is an excellent OS for use with Apache, Postfix (or other MTA), database programs like MySQL, etc. Again, I use, whenever possible, the best OS for the problem at hand. Only a fool blames his tool. I know FreeBSD sucks with KDE, but I don't spend all day here bitching like a little girl. I reserve that for a more appropriate forum. I know FreeBSD driver support is sub-optimal, but there is little that I can do about that. I am fully aware that Bug 237666 <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D237666>, that has existed since 11.x and has continued unpatched up to at least 13.x still exists. I only bring that up on different boards once every few months just to make sure that no one has forgotten about it. I am under no illusion it will be fixed in my lifetime. At least, not on purpose. Aryeh, at some point in life, you have to learn to accept life as it is. >> I DID and STILL do highly recommend using the OS, and obviously the >> applications associated with that OS, that offer the highest degree >> of performance for any particular task. Performance is a very >> subjective concept though. If your only need is to draw a straight >> line, you obviously do not need to run a CAD program; any ASCII >> based text program should suffice. For that reason, I would never >> use a 'chain saw' to miter a piece of crown molding. (I know that >> analogy probably goes over the head of many users here, but it was >> the best one I could come up with in a hurry). >> >And as said above the application I use FreeBSD it is the best suited >to my needs yet you refuse to accept that. If it is the best suited for your needs, why do you continue to bitch like a little girl? >> I have two screens on my desk, connected to two different PCs running >> different OS's. Each one is configured to meet my specific needs for >> the task that they are required for. I know, I have been told to use >> =20 > >I have a truelly KISS solution for that: a KVM switch they cost >(depending on the video cable type) as little as $25 and as much as >$120. ( >https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=3D&cat=3D&Ntt=3Dk= vm+switch&searchButton=3Dsearch) >and if you need HDMI a HDMI switch ( >https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=3D&cat=3D&Ntt=3Dh= dmi+switch&searchButton=3Dsearch). >Problem solved no need for some heavy weight solution like two >complete I/O setups (likely a few hundred dollars that you didn't need >to spend) or a VM (getting more horsepower then you need). BTW this >is the exact solution I use for the same problem with the additional >issue of living (working at home due to being a freelancer) in a small >NYC apartment and thus not having infinite desk space. I like utilizing two complete OS's. It suits my needs perfectly. And, it is extremely simple to setup. If you are happy with the KVM, that is fine with me. At least you are not crying about it every two seconds. >> "Hyper-V" or some other virtual system; however, this works just fine >> for me, and if it ain't broke, I don't intend to fix it. >> =20 >Nor is it as simple as possible even by your definition of simple. >Bringing this up because you popoo'ed the KISS solution that works for >me by the above quotes! It is simple for me, with the added bonus of "It Just Works". >> With all the problems that seem isolated to your system, have you >> ever seriously considered doing a complete reformat of you PC, then >> reinstalling the OS and each piece of software piece by piece until >> you find out what the problem is, if there even is one. I am >> starting to think the problem you are fighting with is related to >> the PEBKAC principal. >> =20 > >Done the above experiment 3 times on my current machine alone and >thats how I can say without qualification that the performance for X >has gotten worse I can even from memory tell you the exact procedure I >use: > >0. Download latest release snapshot >1. Erase existing (whole) drive with dd >2. Reinstall using automatic configuration/partitioning (UFS not ZFS >since ZFS produces drives that are nearly impossible to physically >move between machines) >3. Set the time and reboot >4. Manually set up networking by editing /etc/rc.conf and >/etc/resolv.conf 5. svnlite co svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/releng/XX.YY >/usr/src (currently 12.1) >6. cd /usr/src&&make -j 12 DESTDIR=3D/ world kernel&&etcupdate&&reboot >7. While make is running create a user account and add basic services >like NFS (client), NIS and SSHD to /etc/rc.conf >8. Reboot >9. Manually mount NFS home dirs and add to fstab >10. Reboot >11. svnlite svn://svn.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports >12. cd /usr/ports/ports-mgmt/portmaster >13. make install >14. rehash >15. cd /usr/ports >16. portmaster -d x11/nvidia-driver x11/nvidia-xconfig x11/xorg >x11-wm/xfce4 www/firefox editors/libreoffice devel/aegis devel/fhist >devel/cook archivers/tardy java/openjdk8 audio/deadbeef editor/vim >www/tomcat9 java/icedtea-web >17. Edit /usr/local/sudoers >18. Add tomcat9 to /etc/rc.d >19. run nvidia-xconfig&&cp ~root/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf >20. Add nvidia-modeset_enable=3D"YES" to /boot/loader.conf >20. Reboot >21. Login as the end user >22. Startx >23. END OF PROCEDURE > >(Note I do not consider this ***HARD*** at all, it is actually less >work then getting a consumer OS like Windows or MacOS completely >configured to my liking, and it is all 100% documented unlike >attempting anything except the default install on Linux which almost >always gets something wrong and you have to fiddle with it zero >documentation or access to the sources due to using binary packages) > >As to performence if I can watch 4k/120 fps video in real time then >there is zero problem with performence (any lack of performence in >other apps is because of incompetent coding on the developers behalf). > Given the fact I ditched my TV and FreeBSD with some help when it > comes to getting the >content (like mutlimedia/youtube_dl) over 5 years ago proves that it >has performance as good as the best TV's out there. (What more could I >ask for especially since I am using a 10 year old graphics card). But is it a 72" curved flat screen with surround sound? I kind of doubt it. If it suits your needs though, that is all that matters. >> Oh, I got your apology. That sort of highlights my PEBKAC theory. >> =20 > >I would say your theory is correct but I think that the person who has >the issue is you where you have completely missed everything that was >said by me in the entire thread or misconstrued it into what you >wanted it to mean not what I actually said. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/tOTtJDpaWkGuoWUsSBERABv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl8fLW4ACgkQOHMGOIfe xWRNdgf+O/Nzg7NZjQtzpLDtohh6TyMvlfXoEmfJ2tikSjOLA8vY1DROcG//uLfn bk9XBzO1Yfg/pnKUx/zohQmoQbfKMoeOK1qf75ljRKm9aCfNHXaXwQGima8gjZOJ MEXgKz8YO4AbnNhu34XQxr1N6M2r4AeWB1p9Tc8i8moaKxoK93A8pmw+IsuUCuMF hCFIw3OHeg4OFwGiJXu0BNECWqWFaAXi6QDnSGXii5Rcq3lfpGPkLqgV0KiXHp4s O+eA4sC+vlUTB0NG91MId9wk8RqsD+vBgXrKJBIX2wBDzwkL72qvZriqmAK3foei 2cb2QRyx9dtEUBY+xGW18Ag6xkyWdw== =J+tC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/tOTtJDpaWkGuoWUsSBERABv--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20200727153926.2c8bbfc3>