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Date:      Wed, 1 May 1996 12:01:58 -0600
From:      Nate Williams <nate@sri.MT.net>
To:        dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu
Cc:        Nate Williams <nate@sri.MT.net>, questions@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: Hello
Message-ID:  <199605011801.MAA07508@rocky.sri.MT.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960501103220.10061E-100000@riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu>
References:  <199605010034.SAA05536@rocky.sri.MT.net> <Pine.BSF.3.91.960501103220.10061E-100000@riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu>

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> > In order to do this, I need *testers* who can tell me how things work,
> > and if folks only use the Nomad code this isn't going to help me at all.
> > Telling folks that 'You _want_ to apply the Nomad PCMCIA patches'
> > implies that there is no other solution, or that the other solutions are
> > somehow 'bad'.  Please avoid making my job harder, as I need some help.
> 
> Then, I'm sorry I stepped on your toes.  I was going on what (little) 
> information I had and my personal experience.  I wan't aware of what the 
> current status was regarding your work with it.  One of my co-workers is 
> on -mobile, but he hasn't forwarded any information over, so I'm in the 
> dark.  

I started the mobile mailing list, and have yet to post to it. :(

This is MY problem, as it's much easier to sort of let it slide rather
than taking the time to actually put together a 'status' document.  I've
got one started, but about the time I'm happy with it things change
enough that I have to modify it so I don't send it out.  I start
modifying it, and then just about the time I get around to sending it
out, it needs to be modified once again.

That's the problem with having 3 development branches I guess.

> My remaining question is, although it may be moot in a couple of months
> with 2.1.x, what are 2.1-R people supposed to do for PCMCIA support?

That's a fair question, and here's the answer which you aren't going to
like.

It depends.  What are your desires?  Do you want to help, or just get a
'working' system?

If you just want a working system, then get the Nomad stuff and apply it
to 2.1R, until I make my patch-set against -stable.

Note, Hosokawa already told me that the next release will contain some
stuff that is very destabilizing w/regards to combining APM and PC-CARD
support.  But, that won't matter since the Nomad's are no longer support
2.1, so you won't have patches anyway.  Hopefully the old release will
be kept around, but if not then there is *NOTHING* for a 2.1R user to do
except upgrade to -current.

OR, if you want to help out (please!), you can do one of a couple of
things, but all involve getting the Nomad patches.

Either upgrade to -current and test out the code (w/out the Nomad
patches), and then add the Nomad patches if necessary.  This will help
me out more than you know in that it tests the kernel functionality of
both the APM and PC-CARD code, which is pretty much stable as of now.
If your card's not supported, you should be able to add in just the
driver (and entry into /etc/pccard.conf) from the Nomad's patchset and
see if that's enough.

Or, if you fancy yourself a programmer you can either use -current or
-stable and try to fit in the Nomad patches into there *WITHOUT*
de-stabilizing either one.  Adding PC-CARD patches to a driver is fairly
easy, but many (most?) of the drivers aren't written to be 'hot'
swappable.  This means that the drivers has some assumptions about the
state of the system which aren't valid w/PC-CARD drivers.

For example, the 3C3X9 driver (if_ep.c) assumes that all of the bus
architectures exist at boot time, so the probe portions of the driver
need to be re-written to allow for how-swapping.  This kind of work is
also good in that it makes the driver more likely to become an LKM,
since that's kind of ability is necessary there as well.  (At some
point, I suspect the PC-CARD and LKM driver code will merge.)

The above tasks aren't that difficult (really!), but it requires someone
with the necessary hardware to test and the time to do the job.  Any
kernel guru wannabe (like me) should be able to handle this job w/no
problems. 

I have 4 laptops available, so I can test *some* things pretty well, but
I can't test my PC-CARD mods to the if_ep driver to see if it breaks
non-PCMCIA cards.  If someone on the list had a 3C589 card *AND* a 3C509
card they would be perfect for this job.

Please folks, I can't do this alone.  I'm going to start making some
changes to the drivers in -current on a branch to avoid hosing up the
normal users, but that's only to make the code more available for
general consumption.  If folks don't actually *test* the code, we're not
going to get anywhere.

This may sound a bit nasty, but if you aren't interested in helping me
test and get the FreeBSD laptop support working better, you may as well
run Linux where it already works pretty well.



Nate



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