From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 18 20:22:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107151065674 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yi0-f54.google.com (mail-yi0-f54.google.com [209.85.218.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B205A8FC18 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:22:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yic13 with SMTP id 13so1829291yic.13 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.133.207 with SMTP id q55mr4817720yhi.429.1311020567794; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (twdp-174-109-142-001.nc.res.rr.com [174.109.142.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e24sm204661yhk.23.2011.07.18.13.22.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (zeus [192.168.1.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3RHwsx5cvDz2CG4g for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:22:45 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20110718162245.0d426239@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <13800_1311018255_4E248D0F_13800_81_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499C521864F@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> References: <20110717071059.25971662@scorpio> <4E22DFE9.7050007@pathscale.com> <201107172016.30727.lobo@bsd.com.br> <4E23989F.7010701@gmail.com> <4e242fab.s4vpgxxZEUq0LFDq%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <1311017168.44397.YahooMailRC@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13800_1311018255_4E248D0F_13800_81_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499C521864F@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.9 (GTK+ 2.22.1; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:22:50 -0000 On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:44:15 -0500 Gary Gatten articulated: > >=20 > I've always been curious why "Linux" seemed to take off so fast when > other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not > much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. >=20 > Not just on the desktop, but servers as well. "Supported" versions > of Linux such as RHEL, Suse, etc. seem to have made more headway into > the enterprise computing environment in the last ten years than *BSD > did in the last 30. I think the explanation is rather simple, "Give the user what he wants, not what you think he wants." You are never going to satisfy every conceivable user, so concentrate on the core users. Microsoft has done that extremely well. On the latest Windows 7, getting wireless up and running is the most effortless thing I have done in awhile. Windows does everything but fill in the password. On FreeBSD, well lets just say if that even if they had a driver for the wireless card I have installed, getting it up and running would be another matter. Correct me if I am wrong, but even "network manager" is not available on FreeBSD is it? I have not checked in awhile. I know that there are some programs listed, but none of them work as seamlessly as Microsoft's. It is a basic truism in any business that in order to beat your rival, you have to produce a better product or one that costs less and still maintains the same basic usability. Simply creating a free product that is not as usable is not enough. If you cannot accomplish that, then at least try to create the illusion of it. FreeBSD has failed at the goal also. > >From my personal experience - which is relatively limited - it seems > >applications just work on Linux? When I need to compile an app, it > >takes a few mins on Linux - but may take me a few weeks on FBSD. > >Granted someone more knowledgeable with FBSD, Compilers, etc. could > >do it much faster than I. >=20 > Anyway, if someone has a brief explanation of why Linux has > apparently triumphed (in so far as installed base, desktop > penetration, etc.) where so many others have failed (including IBM > with OS/2) I'd be interested in hearing those thoughts. OS/2 was IBM's fault from the beginning. They insisted that it be tied to the 286 processor. Gates attempted to talk them out of it in a famous meeting in Armonk, NY. IBM refused and effectively wrote it's own death sentence with OS/2. As with any product, first impressions are crucial. Their first one failed. Unfortunately, so many FOSS pundits have not learned this simple lesson. =46rom Wikipedia: OS/2 1.x targeted the 80286 processor: IBM insisted on supporting the Intel 80286 processor, with its 16-bit segmented memory mode, due to commitments made to customers who had purchased many 80286-based PS/2's because of IBM's promises surrounding OS/2.[16] Until release 2.0 in April 1992, OS/2 ran in 16-bit protected mode and therefore could not benefit from the Intel 80386's much simpler 32-bit flat memory model and virtual 8086 mode features. This was especially painful in providing support for DOS applications. While, in 1988, Windows/386 2.1 could run several cooperatively multitasked DOS applications, including expanded memory (EMS) emulation, OS/2 1.3, released in 1991, was still limited to one 640KB "DOS box". --=20 Jerry =E2=9C=8C jerry+fbsd@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the "Reply-To" header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html