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Date:      Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:03:20 -0700 (MST)
From:      Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
To:        gryphon@healer.com (Coranth Gryphon)
Cc:        gryphon@healer.com, terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@freebs.org, kelly@fsl.noaa.gov
Subject:   Re: ports startup scripts
Message-ID:  <199509261803.LAA07924@phaeton.artisoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <199509260316.XAA14582@healer.com> from "Coranth Gryphon" at Sep 25, 95 11:16:25 pm

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> > DNS server/caching databases should be in var.  A client DNS configuration
> > is not subject to change by the client.
> 
> Unless you happen to be running as your domain primary, which a LOT of
> people do. But then again, why bother keeping track of any data,
> just let each machine announce itself and configure everything dynamically,
> seems to work for MS-Windows.

1)	That's not a client DNS, that's a server DNS.
2)	You don't run server DNS's booted diskless, dataless, or off CDROM.

> Ok, so you want to rewrite the entire BSD configuration system, and
> take anything that might change out of /etc.

You're not listening.

> Fine. I give up. You want to change everything, go ahead.
> It's not worth trying to fine a compromise when you want a read-only 
> system configuration.

I want the *ability* to have a read-only system configuration.  A typical
configuration would pre-merge the directories, and could merge them to /etc
or whatever *you* wanted.

> > Only because we have local system information in the wrong damn place,
> > which is why we don't have the ability to upgrade in the first place
> > (upgrade/addition-of-options is what started this whole thread).
> 
> No, the problem is that traditionally, these things went into /etc
> since that was the configuration directory. You don't want it
> to be the configuration directory, you want it to be a static system
> configuration that comes on CD and doesn't change.

I want a CD to be usable as a bootable system, which mean I want some
acceptable defaults in /etc.

I want to seperate configuration data from the scripts that act on it.
The scripts that act on it should not typically be changed by end users.

> > An upgrade is a typical user operation.
> 
> How often? Once every 3-4 months?

Yes.  That's the promised distribution frequency.

> Do we really want to rewrite everything around /etc
> being read-only and change every existing configuration utility
> and script, so that we can go through the entire conversation all
> over again when the directory is named /var/config?

I don't care what it is named.   I think that local password data
on an NFS diskless/dataless mount is not mutable data.  I included
the password data for your benefit.

I think that system naming and IP addresses are a function of bootp
and DHCP; again, not something that is configured locally.

It's perfectly acceptable to have shared configuration data on a read-only
partition.  It's the people who want to run Lycos servers on diskless
systems that have their priorities mixed up.

> The nice thing about /var right now is that everything there
> (with a very few exceptions which have already been discussed)
> is volatile. It can be blown away and replaced with no problem,
> other than loss of history. Now, it would entail a complete
> reconfiguration. 

/var or whatever.  All I want is a directory that doesn't get touched
on an upgrade so that I can drop in a new distribution sans my /home
partition and my system configuration data and be up and running.

> If you want to rewrite everything go ahead. Just be prepared
> for the few thousand people being real confused that /etc/passwd
> is now /var/config/local/passwd.

You still aren't listening.  8-(.

> On the other hand, if people want to take a working system (what
> we have now) and add a bit of flexibilty and functionality to it,

I want to be able to use diskless and dataless configurations without
the possibility of one client screwing it up for all of them.

I want to be able to "test drive" the system from a CDROM or from a
directory tree on an MS-DOS or Win95 or OS/2 file system without
repartitioning my disk on speculation.

I want to have a command line admin utility that can be popen'ed
by a curses/GUI utility.

I want to have a curses/GUI utility.

I want to have multiple system administration vi popen of an rsh of
the command line utility by the same curses/gui utility.

What framework do you suggest for accomplishing these goals?


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.



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