From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 22:02:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C5010656BB for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:02:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from outD.internet-mail-service.net (outd.internet-mail-service.net [216.240.47.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2AE8FC24 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:02:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from idiom.com (mx0.idiom.com [216.240.32.160]) by out.internet-mail-service.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BB9236A; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idiom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AED2D6004; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <485C28E5.3070909@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:02:13 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Sack References: <3c0b01820806190629o7264cfaeg6fa6a08a6822047e@mail.gmail.com> <7d6fde3d0806190822s1420dcake3a38be7189b8ab0@mail.gmail.com> <3c0b01820806201352n54b846cas612a6923531ef04@mail.gmail.com> <485C1DC5.8090007@elischer.org> <3c0b01820806201424n53371437m8e9af5507416926e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820806201424n53371437m8e9af5507416926e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cross platform building best practices (building 6 on 7) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:02:06 -0000 Alexander Sack wrote: > On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: >> Alexander Sack wrote: >>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Garrett Cooper >>> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Alexander Sack >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello Folks: >>>>> >>>>> I've done a lot of Googling and scouring the lists about this >>>>> particular subject so I apologize for rehashing it. However, I'm >>>>> still confused on what's the best way to perform BSD cross platform >>>>> builds. Ideally what I want to have is an environment whereby I can >>>>> build a 6.1-RELEASE tree on a 7.0-RELEASE box. I thought originally I >>>>> could check out a 6.1 release version, perform make world, and then >>>>> use the output of that build as either a basis for a jail or a >>>>> toolchain. However, as noted by previous threads, 6.x doesn't build >>>>> on a 7.x due to gcc4/binutils compatibility issues (please correct me >>>>> if I'm wrong). I then thought I could potentially download a patched >>>>> binutils, copy it into src/contrib/binutils and that would potentially >>>>> fix it. No dice (and I'm still debugging why since this binutils >>>>> package DOES build outside of the make world infrastructure without >>>>> issue, this very well could be pilot error on my part since I didn't >>>>> update the VERSION string and didn't trim the source files as per the >>>>> FreeBSD-deleteList etc.). >>>>> >>>>> I THEN thought if I build/install a gcc-3.x/bintuils toolchain I could >>>>> complie a 6.x on a 7.x machine. Well I haven't done that yet since at >>>>> this point I believe I'm diverged from the path of FreeBSD build >>>>> enlightenment! Moreover, if would be NICE if I could bootstrap the >>>>> normal dev tools from the exiting make world build tree. I'm not yet >>>>> ready for a lot of hackery on the build tree without asking around. >>>>> :D! >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone due cross-platform builds (without host virtualization)? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> -aps >>>> (I'll stick to just hackers@ because I don't want to pollute >>>> questions@ unnecessarily) >>> Sorry I felt really bad actually cc'ing questions its just that my >>> last groking produced many threads in freebsd-questions as opposed to >>> hackers. I'll try to be more attentive to my posts (I have a habit >>> cc'ing multiple forums because sometimes they apply but questions is >>> for normal troubleshooting, not cross-platform build issues!). >>> >>>> You touched on an important point. There were some code quality issues >>>> (I think) with 6.x that were resolved moving to 7.x, which caused >>>> gcc-4.2.x to barf. >>> Probably but I'm not trying to point fingers! :D! >>> >>>> gcc-4.2.x requires a newer version of binutils, just because (for API >>>> / usage compatibility). >>> Yea understood. To be honest, this isn't documented very readily. I >>> first thought it was pilot error on me, then I decided to take a look >>> at what failed to compile (I believe it was an innocent extern). And >>> then got lost in gcc/binutils hell. Luckily I've smelled this problem >>> before and after some research confirmed by suspicion. >>> >>>> What you should probably do is create a jail then do your development >>>> for 6.x in a jail, 7.x in another, and (if you're bold enough ;)...) >>>> do 8.x development in yet a third. Jail's are a much better way to >>>> isolate things such that you don't have to worry about toolchain >>>> issues like these and are able to setup a sourcebase as the devs >>>> intended it (for the most part; you may run into issues with sysctls >>>> and virtual kernel stuff like that, but cest la vie... there isn't a >>>> better way I know of than that outside of running a VM). >>> I figured you were going ot say that Garrett. Well OK, but I still >>> need to bootstrap my dev environment for 6.x development on 7.x. >>> Since binutils compatibility makes my 6.x make world barf on 7.x, >>> where should I go? I HAVE not parsed through a lot of the build >>> infrastructure yet but it would seem to be IF make world bootstraps >>> the world including the development tools, why can't I update >>> binutils/gcc inplace and then compile (or is this a regression issue >>> which I failed to grasp). Or do I need to update binutils on my >>> *host* system itself? i.e. what I'm really asking is does make world >>> bootstrap the right bintuils/gcc etc. and then use THAT to compile the >>> rest or does it just perform a host build of everything and plops it >>> in DESTDIR? >>> >>> Hope I make some sense here (still a n00b).... >> One thing we always strive for in FreeBSD is an upgrade path. >> >> As a general rule, a newer system should be able to run a jail >> populated with an earlier system. There are some small exceptions, >> for example you may need a new version of netstat, ps and libkvm >> in your jail. possibly grab them from the /rescue on the new system >> so they are statically linked. >> also 8.x systems will require that threaded programs from 6.x be dynamically >> linked so that they can be remapped to use libthr instead of libkse as >> libkse is not supported in 8. > > So you are talking about binary/ABI compatibility yes? So I would > assume what you are saying is I can take a 6.x system, create a > filesystem tarball, drop it on a 7.x system and then create a jail out > of it. > >> asside from those I think that just about every thing else should be fine.. >> I've run a FreeBSD 1.1 chroot on a freeBSD 7 system >> (I had to make 1 very small fix). >> >> At Ironport we build 4.x binaries on 6.x systems by spinning off >> a 4.x chroot as prart of the build process. (they need to link with 4.x >> third party binaries) so it's very esay to do. > > I believe this answers my question but I want to confirm. I THOUGHT > about this but I wanted a more *cleanroom* approach. That's all. this is about as cleanroom as you can get.. you create a tarball of a virgin 6.x distribution including virgin stuff you need, and then every time you need to do a new 6.x jail, you just drop it in and hook it up. it doesn't even need to be a jail if you are just building.. a chroot should be good enough. (with a /dev mounted in it usually) (for /dev/null and such). > > -aps