From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 01:38:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3602F4B8A for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49V2t75Sb9z446s for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id z3so11327573otp.9 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 18:38:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cKf53TD4MM06mZDPeLqNwiFhA+Vo6Kc+zAfoD3Mrecg=; b=baXH4uIgLFvMhIxjnbGHSAS+Mt0qBEIfU+dDag8jc6hSO2R29TnG59X47RE69asGXJ hFX+WlIFTj0KlR3IwkCwCPLS/P0HbA1pCaMnijw6k+854MDkUA7LhP/TJK5H1vD9ySNV ERYQmtzdB7gftAbzyoTqkglufBTdkxS64Oheb9cxlHzNl4bkx4ozLVhYuW+sbxPpnF2X CVaEB9C6YXgqN5scWZpPmqKjaXeMxSdvBBDfiCEkRywPrTE3c1h1qEpSbpY3Wv9gxXv6 2ECrYGyYRVJKM/PEjZMxs/NIegr2jiG+WdN4WbH0/jWtz+far6EF+9JXWW8C9Kv8tHRG tyMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=cKf53TD4MM06mZDPeLqNwiFhA+Vo6Kc+zAfoD3Mrecg=; b=PpOt/KAJf267VDKAiDd98kEk0sjUTNbs4gWLkjevG61WVmmj88TWWSXMzFshIGyueO rGswuiMFeXqdN7MFxUXlrwyVmViRfdGVdVZIPuKE4kwibmzCQkmVbc/CDB/x1pD5GkNC TNpiwUxLF+9aYAdZmyVfNMG+Vzh3b6+tQLV1GaaIRJUg5AwFXsHZX02ZCpcxk1piDniC dpZsjkZIc8KA8tmwgwfPwFITa8GXiM1yheJ3SKQTjuJdVXJeAv2Cosk3wjwJ/zLVFGHc YGqf3p80CSf+1ggfHOWrshAfKxctwSLDuLfvgfiFPOpGtatC2j/3JWuey83A9dqXgcJH QR5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Sk2cDnceJ/kVYRfInS1L533Y1cNIt3hq7i4YduM+TRThGcGML 6vYKRCIgWSKiRtJCrpEvOhXBliDFaMXUHcntsgRSFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoohbraUeR0xqskzPq+5FM03TgpW7NLsF9VSnOeBR5D3Ikj9PRyJ68XwDcYKM8hM1mIxPRyhxZ2ZStVfvMScw= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:785a:: with SMTP id c26mr15362536otm.39.1590284286360; Sat, 23 May 2020 18:38:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH" Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 19:37:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49V2t75Sb9z446s X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=baXH4uIg; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kurtbuff@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::334 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kurtbuff@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.07)[-1.074]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.945]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::334:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.40)[-0.396]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:09 -0000 On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 12:39 AM Doug Denault wrote: > Thoughts/questions on updating a FreeBSD desktop. > > This comes out of the "FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life" thread. It seems to me there > are two distinct sets of users: server and desktop. There have to be a few like > me with a foot in each camp. I am somewhat in the same situation - I am no longer primarily a sysadmin, but have stood up a few servers, and currently I use a couple of FreeBSD machines on our vSphere cluster, and FreeBSD as my secondary desktop, running as a VM on VMWare Workstation Pro on my personal Win10 laptop and under Hyper-V on my work laptop. > The desktop is a whole different thing. Why yes - it is. :) > My solution has been every so often > start fresh because I can not afford the time to risk a non-working desktop. I have done that a couple of times, but haven't needed to do that in quite a while. But, because the desktops are secondary, and not as heavily used, perhaps that makes a difference. > When the ports moved to being based on the release head I had high hopes. I > think I did not understand what that actually meant. My environment is xfce with > enough stuff to give me something close to my partner's OS/X system. In addition > to the "normal" stuff for me this means having, firefox, chrome, libreoffice, > mysql and tigervnc. This ends up with 625 (or so) ports and packages. I did my > current system in December. I don't use mysql on my desktops (but if I needed a database, I'd use postgresql), otherwise I tend to use things like nmap and other network-centric tools. > In this environment, I have never been able to update firefox or the xfce > desktop/panel components to correct bugs or get a new feature. Hmmm..... I have good results using synth, like "portsnap fetch update && synth upgrade-system" and let it run overnight. I do that whenever the mood strikes, or once a month, whichever comes first. > So for example, when glib-2 56 3_6,1 is updated to glib-2 56 3_6,2 or later, I > can not update using pkg or ports. So I guess the question is, is this a Make > file issue, or is the next version really not compatible? As long as the answer > is, either who knows, or it's the same thing, I am pretty much forced to follow > my pattern of all or nothing updating. This has not really been an issue for me, > I've had no security issues as these systems have always been behind a router > and I also use a basic ipfw configuration. > > So all of this is to ask is the update problem totally a technical one, or a > natural consequence stemming from how the FreeBSD project organized? Can't say - haven't had the problems you're seeing. But again - I'm not a heave desktop user, so perhaps I'm not stressing my system like you are. Kurt From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 11:50:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DEF32B358 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:50:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VJSS15nMz3c5K for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:50:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65635C007C for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VJSS15nMz3c5K X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=iFK5tpI3; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=UDOSjXB2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 66.111.4.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.48 / 15.00]; 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charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, thank you all for your inputs :D On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 11:47:11AM +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: >If I am not mistaken, there are two soundsystems in FreeBSD: OSS and the >newer pcm. OSS may just be layer ontop of pcm, these days. My problem is when building sound ports, I dunno what's best. Basically I w= ant low-latency high quality stereo sound. I'm not a musician. But I want to pl= ay music etc on a nice set of speakers. >Then on top of that one may have a sound server, running in userspace. >Most popular nowadays being pulseaudio, the successor of ESD. Or jack, >popular for low latency audio work. Pulseaudo gives me the heebigeebees a bit because it seems to want to wind itself round everything. Additionally, I don't understand it. >A sound server abstracts the low level audio api and allows stuff like >multiple audio streams (like "you have new mail" and listening to bsd >now on youtube), in case the hardware (or the underlying sound system) >does not. > >Now the FreeBSD audio subsystem, to my little knowledge, allows for >mixing multiple streams. The question is, does this need a special setup >for typical desktop applications? I do not know. > >If not, you may skip using a soundserver. For my use, it depends on the context really. If I'm doing actual work I'll want say maybe a favourite internet radio station playing, but I'll also wa= nt mail notifications and the odd bleep to be heard as well, but for some seri= ous music playing, loud, in my non-work time id like to easily turn those bleeps off and high fidelity. >Deping on your choice of windowmanager or desktop environment, it would >get started automatically or you may have take care of that yourself. choice of windowmanager is a whole other can o' worms. I was using xfce4 fo= r a while but over the last few months it's been using 100% cpu constantly so I= 've switched back to windowmaker which ive been using since the late 90s and ha= ve got my very responsive desktop back. I'd like to try something more modern like kde5 sometime though. Really need a recent walkthrough/howto in the context of nvidia because this is way out of my area of expertise. Years ago I'd just configure sound_drv in the kernel and it'd just work. I didn't know jack was something for low-latency, accurate work. Maybe i'll t= ry that. thanks, --=20 J. --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl7KX2wACgkQs8o7QhFz NAWI0Q/+Is5O6vrrp0XQEvKF1Tk8kZl5PUHvERF0npWSYybqVgzPHHmEuRUYeZbi jaSj4WL5nBdCZuVeCa+OD+bg3iifK8It7EZjd/zIbX1cgQscIRh5zXOpws9ZTkJt s0/V4Vdb9udg39APiA//HvI5iuKKKy2RJNmwfFJDTXOLXa0lUhboPu0eXmxbXQqV O7DMT8fuRgEqKtaTtDngXQUF5YPV0us2vqS1TAbbWZKSPBn4kXAxDr3Yc/uEQ9g+ zXER25AH/LPxu6vNOUOULT4p9tefscNltpmZD2Hxjeh9ZUCaEXvQxhvP3xF0pWNb bhhlxCiozf1idJ0dkYMffhfm4iKsNYTYG/nmXxnU8HjP4zqbKMMUVK7+PMCZjRWS Pm5PXKQ926+gJzmrPeesbTuLEVcxSk9lw+pid/102f/secEKJYQGFkTeZPeI81eu 63eiQlrLf/QWUhgn0X/z3ZMPZWGV/9EwFPkVpzecH1bN4TXcwEVSBkLa97cMi434 gA9o/mgHAV1Qp/d7OuZrGx7130dy0gLjV/ae5ICxsGl0TZUDyQnZRySR7vuSkOC2 Sd021YJ77oSikF6YYJP4vquBkelgR1Rx2dDIdc/7qAV9RUhcO11uMOBXkAzuDT8Z EF5U07ixkUrRFDKib1pz+mVGA/yLvLRkkxXU8lxf3q+Aekvn4z4= =Uf2a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 12:38:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B304D32CD3C for ; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 08:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 13:37:44 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation Message-ID: <20200524123744.GC84757@bastion.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VKWq72V1z3gjR X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=1n9hcsMB; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=VZBLt/lG; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 64.147.123.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zyxst.net:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.09)[-1.090]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.25:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.012]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zyxst.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[zyxst.net:+,messagingengine.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.69)[-0.685]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.25:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 12:38:16 -0000 --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've been using freebsd as a desktop since the late 90s (in addition to running servers). In the last few years it's become a lot easier for deskto= p.=20 I still get confused about *what to use* wrt desktop because there rae=20 lots of different answers (see my thread about desktop sound) but in=20 terms of keeping stuff like ports up-to-date it's got a *lot* easier. Here's what I do: 1. unless you need kernel mods for your specific desktop, run freebsd-12-release and keep it up-to-date with freebsd-update. 2. preferably on another machine with a lot of horsepower, build your ports= in poudriere and point yr desktop pkg at it. You can transfer your ports optio= ns =66rom /var/db/ports to the poudriere build machine, get a listing of insta= lled ports on yr desktop with pkg prime-origins | sort -u | tee ports.lst and fe= ed that to poudriere with -f. poudriere builds the ports in a clean environment so avoiding the issues wi= th not being able to upgrade that you've described. I personally think this is infinitely preferable to "just install linux for= a simpler life" because nothing is simple and I know more about freebsd than linux. With poudriere you get to modify options you want out of ports so is better than linux and the freebsd pkg repositories in this regard. All the ease of pkg and the flexibility of ports. Plus there are other non-ports considerations for using freebsd, like ZFS. --=20 J. --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl7KapcACgkQs8o7QhFz NAU4vg//S6RLrStDN6ngWzju0+lUrWOIogozXU07yQN2WujHYoSYzHGnAEQ+iIBl RnR0jA0Nvn05MXVOacJ7OozGhpswCLe1PMXulsMN/84yFrtlXP8VUM/tcogsgQuX KLnv++8JRNGDqo+lyrMDpEPLtZ+XPxsuQDwQKbqINPo/Hjy5FnJpX3jnCZsFCed7 30QxJGNdf/Tq8vn3vSvZjAii3+V7tW0E1PXhOYZlz6xzldOMbTJOlRkpueqCM266 ikGqIW8o3c/PAC6uthhZhCs8sAEIe9sslBrtfwtMwkaMkWwX0yynnk/LyY30F4FH 9BL8+bgWyXlZLMnoI1fL9uz2Eoci24M2EyQsrJ/nSFz/wQ/GQOGp2akSpG1lttS5 h1uxrTVRP8Ddmjwr89/+BGoaOxCHTa57maaSPceykVeDPG1Tqx6+V3CIj+E1meC8 c+V+zo4agTic/Z+pFjRVNoKWETx8lvgfL+CrZKMGE0cZ05Plu/50JGSM2IG/7Et3 jF1TXj5hJvFhNpL1OuO/HChBc270zjD5K4rkBCjVXh3U3J/4njAgYau8m07FNU35 ZIgXfI/NTwDEaYmUaHg1RGFWHU1RJQ+xnP6kQL9JG3P89lNPHfEDgMhbzYJ8Evub Dh5EMitPWqnk2XJ4W1Nc0ky/+oNXnf/1zjaB6YP45JQGL7oyyW8= =Jb25 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 13:58:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CB732E920 for ; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 06:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.222.27.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n1sm1102254wrp.10.2020.05.24.06.58.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 May 2020 06:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:58:14 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524145814.195bc136@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VMJD265Fz44Nj X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.29 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.222.27.18:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.043]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::436:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.27)[-0.272]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 13:58:21 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100 tech-lists wrote: > My problem is when building sound ports, I dunno what's best. Personally I've never actively installed any sound port. Currently alsa-lib and alsa-plugins are installed as dependencies of chromium and firefox. Everything else I have installed works just fine with what's in the base system. Many packages that use sound, including vlc, are built without jack and pulseaudio support. You'd have to build your own packages to get that support. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 15:26:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC82C8929 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VPFW0Vmrz4C8P for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Updating packages installs a whole lot of packages Message-Id: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 09:26:05 -0600 To: FreeBSD X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VPFW0Vmrz4C8P X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.82)[-0.815]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.68)[-0.681]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.296]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[65.121.55.42:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:08 -0000 I went to update dovecot and mariadb-server and without changing the = configuration for either package, I ended up with this: Upgrade mariadb103-server-10.3.22 to mariadb103-server-10.3.23 Install archivers/lzo2 Upgrade libiconv-1.14_11 to libiconv-1.16 Upgrade mariadb103-client-10.3.22 to mariadb103-client-10.3.23 Install devel/cmake Install archivers/libarchive Install devel/jsoncpp Install devel/meson Install devel/ninja Upgrade libuv-1.37.0 to libuv-1.38.0 Install devel/libtool Upgrade gmake-4.2.1_3 to gmake-4.3_1 Upgrade texinfo-6.7_2,1 to texinfo-6.7_3,1 Upgrade curl-7.70.0 to curl-7.70.0_1 Upgrade ca_root_nss-3.51.1 to ca_root_nss-3.52 Install security/rhash Install textproc/py-sphinx Install devel/py-babel@py37 Install devel/py-pytz@py37 Install devel/py-Jinja2@py37 Install textproc/py-MarkupSafe@py37 Install devel/py-packaging@py37 Install devel/py-pyparsing@py37 Install devel/py-six@py37 Install graphics/py-imagesize@py37 Install textproc/py-alabaster@py37 Install textproc/py-docutils@py37 Install textproc/py-pygments@py37 Install textproc/py-snowballstemmer@py37 Install textproc/py-pystemmer@py37 Install lang/cython@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-applehelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-devhelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-htmlhelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-jsmath@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-qthelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-serializinghtml@py37 Install www/py-requests@py37 Install dns/py-idna@py37 Install net/py-urllib3@py37 Install net/py-pysocks@py37 Install security/py-certifi@py37 Install security/py-cryptography@py37 Install devel/py-asn1crypto@py37 Install devel/py-cffi@py37 Install devel/py-pycparser@py37 Install security/py-openssl@py37 Install textproc/py-chardet@py37 Upgrade dovecot-2.3.10_3 to dovecot-2.3.10.1 Re-install dovecot-pigeonhole-0.5.10 That seems like a lot of packages to be newly installing, doesn't it? Again, I did not change the options from the already installed versions = that are maybe a month old. --=20 Well, we know where we're goin' But we don't know where we've been And we know what we're knowin' But we can't say what we've seen From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 15:39:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548DE2C9026 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VPXW3wLMz4ClG for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Updating packages installs a whole lot of packages Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 09:39:05 -0600 References: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> Message-Id: <4244E3A8-61BE-43D2-A563-F67BF2D494A8@kreme.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VPXW3wLMz4ClG X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.22 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.875]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.75)[-0.754]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.19)[-0.187]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[65.121.55.42:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:08 -0000 On 24 May 2020, at 09:26, @lbutlr wrote: > I went to update dovecot and mariadb-server and without changing the = configuration for either package, I ended up with this: Apologies. I meant to send this to freebsd-ports@freebsd.org. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:05:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7122C9A76 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic311-31.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic311-31.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VQ6x5gbLz4FcW for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: 3d2PZfgVM1kSECmpI6KOZP0XEXbYe.MV1hStLws0.QyxZsEifhHlt_lc4fJXDD0 p3qN3y_MNcfifRap77ej59jfS9SXfvwfgKcct_clItnMpv6gOejcqOJfGw6eh5AoKNL2Zo1.3k4p LvnBROjLiKi4JyZTnYejshz1jeOrAvgB5Pjg.Tcy87jb5EkDfUt8GhoBUCrMtSK9TjZj9QNIFFbC TFzMWoFgBxNz3owRvun2uI2pqg0UCpP2f75lqsTget3hvMulsqEQj7L36jElE7esPUwI6Ms4j2io 6SvS8V_0IeW.J0wAjJA.w37chyF3Y6tGf2vI7XHdRXSiTTSlCtVGBFV8xAYDUjOBRrLwqOPBAyHw pbQq1hHUc0NO2gsNcxYO4AiVCKmuqaG0ELy8Jn4zZsySzobw.fb6bQrJUWE3qBnUDeLeMjipeAq. q.VR_JpwNNQG_sHxO0I_7HIDt1vrViPZ7Rfk4bG5IOtAH1Tk7SVSzIXgMGXF5dZofL.d4w069iQS 3V2KyaGE9FM_8jMmHwvR5VI3Mbadnshr7bNe6I4MCQWQrFb6H67TYG1H9bgWY9MdILl7HAlzJ0f_ aPRY0h7vUXUMn84JovKdC3zRgSzeJHIb6IvPfZUg_mwmsLyIBRn1Sz54XCTEmtDrbjs4cdz5sM3S etkgaJv8nAIiRJCGG3Z7frx0N7C4b1gbJarzjfKv6QrgySU9_RfQ4Jjmm1b0D2ijz23b6TiioAIH D30JzpHu5b02EQ071kc..GPxhhDQjeT2wYaaCVI78EvUcW2kRwPF9mUb3WVtlYCB1wcIRn2pI63a FLVIG9uXtcPqd1Vx7e21oZ3shX8yt._6EkzEmiVkNh4B6ufkP03FG3e67s4A7Ij7PRX9R7ojfjgF V7H4HTl5ld3mCg5r43z1t3y6UtbpSm4bAl9h3Ho9puFqyZ8vc1D4EB6d_iRn.UgfE72fwZkFbqwj lKeQ.lIret4qoH55lQKGBLca_npttiL6BUnCHcWb8sKBaJlhsYXw.O5s3RErzp14W8CX49KJEnzA U2a2TcFnij4.32k2vRpFHkvU7kNsGTChE38VI1I8IGsoZ.TYwPoah2LmlJKo0Dv8LNKtcXC5r8GB VDWeuzqswcy46SuiA5YzOSgXXyGzNHtEa_uhWjrA9QvDnn3WOoLGm1qpdG6xl.PivarNJsbItMXl .6adVAqazY0lw6ylgugyvVa5I6vqp3aFh6h9n0f9Ahmxmm5UuJ9AOKZV2Uh9JvlFv.uZ4opS4i.J RqmuDB68_fMNuObCn4jnx3V1NdfVgM3WTzXoVtFH_iiKSoPThcygomo4uyo05qAvMbKhKJjyUoAK ZQePocxoMiKtZRpiE9MhFCPVNU7svHl9biVsDJxK26WdoiQJaBpSe5CfKarWSCMJ3UAMs20h7No7 _kus- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:27 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c8a6fc8d2bbb291e8c9df408a2e04fed; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:05:25 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524180525.17d51260@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VQ6x5gbLz4FcW X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.85)[-0.846]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.163:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.335]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.010]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.163:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:31 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100, tech-lists wrote: >I didn't know jack was something for low-latency, accurate work. >Maybe i'll try that. Hi, assuming I should understand your needs correctly jack doesn't do what you want. A lot of apps can't be build with jack support at all. Broadly speaking jack is aimed to keep audio routing streams in accurate sync. You don't need this, unless you are doing audio productions. It does not "make" low latency audio, the user needs a system more or less optimised for low latency audio work to run jack. It doesn't provide sample-rate conversion, so all apps need to use the same sample rate or a workaround doing the required resampling. Good apps with jack support don't auto-connect, the user has to manually connect the apps with jack. Those odd apps that automagically connect with jack are usually a PITA to use with jack. Firefox is probably the only browser with jack support. If you can't get a binary with jack support, you need to build Firefox yourself. Firefox is bloated. It takes way longer to build Firefox, than even building a bloated kernel. Each time a vulnerable gets fixed by a Firefox update, you need to build Firefox again. Jack was designed for pro-audio apps, not for averaged desktop apps. Pulseaudio is aimed for John and Jane Doe. Averaged desktop apps with different sample rates can connect to pulseaudio and the audio streams are automatically converted to the audio devices sample rate and automatically mixed. IOW (almost) everything is done automagically. Without using a sound server at all, only one app can connect with the audio device. Workarounds could allow to use several app simultaneously, even without using a sound server. I'm running a Linux (real-time audio) DAW. I never ever would install pulseaudio. However, for desktop audio I'm using plain ALSA and the PC speaker beep. The real PC speaker, no beep via the audio device. I don't use a workaround, so I can only connect one app with the audio device. For audio productions I'm using jack with the ALSA backend. Very seldom I'm using jack with desktop apps, such as Firefox, too. My guess is that for your needs neither jack, nor no sound server at all is the way to go. You probably want pulseaudio or another sound server aimed for averaged desktop usage. Regards, Ralf PS: No, my PC speaker isn't constantly beeping, I neither have got things such as a desktop with a trash bin and even if I would use a desktop with a trash bin and other bits and bobs, I wouldn't allow those bits and bobs to beep. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:35:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEEA2CA5B7 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VQnF09fQz4Hph for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04OGZ3jO081841 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) To: FreeBSD Mailing List Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Subject: python version issue Message-ID: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:33:12 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VQnF09fQz4Hph X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.77 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.65)[-0.654]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.43)[-0.427]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.61)[0.614]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:14 -0000 I'm trying to build a development version of a port (FreeCAD). All of my current ports were installed using packages, and the installed versions of python are 2.7 and 3.7. The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) specifies: USES= ... python:3.6 ... BUILD_DEPENDS= ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2-tools@${PY_FLAVOR} It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: make DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes build ===> FreeCAD-8.d821.f5.f depends on package: py37-pyside2-tools>0 - not found ===> py37-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 Unknown flavor 'py37', possible flavors: py27 py36.. I see there is a devel/pyside2-tools, so I suspect I somehow need to set some environment variables to get it to generate a py37-pyside2-tools? Why is py37 not an available flavor, with version 3.7 already installed? Gary From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:51:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882862CAE89 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from erza.lautre.net (erza.lautre.net [80.67.160.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "lautre.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VR7g5LT9z4K5X for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [78.225.128.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by erza.lautre.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DA394F2952 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F28D03036E9; Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:08 +0200 From: Thierry Thomas To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: python version issue Message-ID: <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.1-STABLE amd64 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: X-PGP: 0xF1C516B3C8359753 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VR7g5LT9z4K5X X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of thierry@pompo.net designates 80.67.160.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=thierry@pompo.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.98 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.63)[0.627]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[80.67.160.89:from]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.82)[0.817]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.33)[1.333]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[thierry@freebsd.org,thierry@pompo.net]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[thierry@freebsd.org,thierry@pompo.net]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:12 -0000 --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le dim. 24 mai 20 =E0 18:33:12 +0200, Gary Aitken =E9crivait=A0: > The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) specifies: > USES=3D ... python:3.6 ... > BUILD_DEPENDS=3D ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2= -tools@${PY_FLAVOR} >=20 > It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible > with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. > Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: Set USES=3Dpython:3.6+ --=20 Th. Thomas. --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJeyqX7XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFNTM2QkU4NTM4NTM5OUQwMEI2RkFBNzZG MUM1MTZCM0M4MzU5NzUzAAoJEPHFFrPINZdTHt4QAIZZH+fL6u7YdfKlYNGosvyb fYGBCyORMIA+kVeQu2EIh2Vm/urNr7Abh+SIOM7GiR/HrrvIgcF80H8/Gf0rjkCC pa+jCHr457zcBq4fp41n/KpDlDiNv3iRXytPzBALOXmpPOnIyLhZ6PNrXghBNkcF jq+m8BIOBYuSnPQkR023l5MPOrev6UHZkru2BJYr+Tgx7TZzhckP9sP98it3hKIf wNn3dy/WfpCk/aSONwZo6ZD1/qGJTvIS+FClEGG0k0NuvDu76l/bZnAfwJCGaXc9 8L/8SdM3K4xR9MzbX1LX0fXsJrXzP5Z7/5Vbsc+NKZ8TQ7OGWd1kYXxP7Kexwelk MLxZqo9IzOOukjHDBC2/dyKClYlS7liu21rRASbHs/EXUkXNnLBNae6/CA8+uVma 1YusQ+H9cQRVgaS+95A/8EP2srtEH9zanurWN9cm74wm9qXLffkcHi6vtwmq0YB4 30Uo0eiVM83EOtP0DJb6gi+92X8qf565CuhvCLZl6uLU1xKCN2SuW5WMkA8EeKUa cb12rOZdgySHENZO7gZzsTJRWxizv+g5ifZLiqV254jarOLYNfqaR5WszmUVG1/h w/BTXK4/buIbkW9CEKBWb1vL7/I9mLMUx4M16rlUovwHh9BCimpZXT/qWCEoB8vw 0KwuaaO23NrlI7J86N77 =Zvrq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 17:01:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E76B2CAFF3 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VRMV3GvZz4Kmv for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04OH1OAp081912 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:01:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Subject: Re: python version issue To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Message-ID: <42701269-4225-cb3c-f6eb-4ab245e50d97@dreamchaser.org> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:59:33 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Sun, 24 May 2020 11:01:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VRMV3GvZz4Kmv X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.61)[-0.608]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.09)[-0.094]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.58)[0.578]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:27 -0000 On 5/24/20 10:51 AM, Thierry Thomas wrote: > Le dim. 24 mai 20 à 18:33:12 +0200, Gary Aitken > écrivait : > >> The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) >> specifies: USES= ... python:3.6 ... BUILD_DEPENDS= >> ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2-tools@${PY_FLAVOR} >> It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible >> with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. >> Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: > > Set USES=python:3.6+ > I tried that, but then it looks like it is using python 3.6 and trying to install older versions of already-installed packages? # make DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes build ===> FreeCAD-8.d821.f5.f depends on package: py36-pyside2-tools>0 - not found ===> License BSD3CLAUSE GPLv2 accepted by the user ===> py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 depends on file: /usr/local/sbin/pkg - found ===> Fetching all distfiles required by py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 for building ===> Extracting for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 => SHA256 Checksum OK for pyside-setup-everywhere-src-5.12.1.tar.xz. ===> Patching for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 ===> Applying FreeBSD patches for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 ===> py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 depends on package: py36-setuptools_scm>0 - not found ===> py36-setuptools_scm-3.1.0 depends on package: py36-setuptools>0 - not found ===> py36-setuptools-40.8.0 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python3.6 - not found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on package: pkgconf>=1.3.0_1 - found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on executable: msgfmt - found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on shared library: libffi.so - found (/usr/local/lib/libffi.so) ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on shared library: libreadline.so.7 - not found ===> Installing for readline-7.0.5 ===> Checking if readline is already installed ===> readline-7.0.5 is already installed You may wish to ``make deinstall'' and install this port again by ``make reinstall'' to upgrade it properly. If you really wish to overwrite the old port of readline without deleting it first, set the variable "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER" in your environment or the "make install" command line. *** Error code 1 Despite the "readline-7.0.5 is already installed, it is not: $ pkg info | grep readline readline-8.0.1 Library for editing command lines as they are typed It seems like it needs to be using/generating py37 versions, to be compatible with higher-numbered versions such as readline-8.0.1 instead of 7.0.5? confused... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 23:48:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8AD2DE239 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x241.google.com (mail-lj1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VcPK1f6pz3fSc for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x241.google.com with SMTP id k5so18861908lji.11 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=BLTKLBJ3KNUFvo4tty5NW1XKytPFXxavGteYtHDdu2I=; b=Uclw5/BBpULjlVSH/nCffjAbHL+rvKcAxdkVH/F0I75SaHq0gvbaxsF4dpzd84FXwS pJLbJzP4CRL7zO7dOmVWkEkZBylW3FzIzIh3rFDPhxuNVAtbEAggBh5juCKWhQDo/hGE GKT4Lq8A3ozLbVSujxwYnINROddmNzlFEFRtkxYKYaDIRlbrktxaLV9UzPjoaIzJz6ye 7UM/tpzpT+yORjzXGB9dFah2PxNgisRS51vvHoMGLVcMN2mkMOvtUPLQkOdMDcia80PH QKB+tPpPV2EC9hiZoFbzC/gJx9mukV0xSmAgGcZvBJ8CwJ+8CBYUep/yivjGmYi5Y3Ju 3Lvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BLTKLBJ3KNUFvo4tty5NW1XKytPFXxavGteYtHDdu2I=; b=R5W3f5Reo3NDpi9yg+O65KK7+qflfiIw0aixwuTfTNKNEvDVxhTIImLYCs3tn8IpE3 I+UjbDfn7E0/8F6PcJuZ1LGf3OP7/F3H3DGFj3hb1D72hI/ssWbLgJBYpwu+x98PWtLP u5jfa2Pj4KUcMmBDtmv7Pyev8BrZgOHHg/WmvFvxJx0YMi7zikDdVgUfGov73eivb8iq cD5ctYWsSrp/MlZ9m8iSejs5NXuHlVCnL4p7JcgbQvgvm0XCVvSU+iCBWcoDQUfQArB6 wVX1TDgFlSSH2gGH/BtlcYH05Iweq4lWdXj8htcdSU7Ts/gxfxav7e9dl2UW3XM4v0q8 fsZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zoZNa8oFHqgSjeinhO+GiONZajKTBf8VTkcR/ODu+Y2zQgt7l kGNwDKgs0P8zpvVdOKNpC6ATzT0b/iwq4fxssAZIbUHr X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJymVFPNFjnBskfeAtiTdLk67bazawRiXheCjHltY/q3VWWZfnlsl35SMICbTGUM+nH/xcZT17K53CIcXkD9lMk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:900a:: with SMTP id h10mr10261637ljg.329.1590364114476; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Donald Wilde Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: David Christensen Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VcPK1f6pz3fSc X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Uclw5/BB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.63 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.611]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.019]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::241:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:38 -0000 I had to remain with the MBR-based system. GPT just flat-out did not work for me but I have got a working system and successfully updated it to 12-STABLE. I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' worked. Thanks! Happy Beastie here. On 5/23/20, Donald Wilde wrote: > Mine (the laptop) is not quite 2007 vintage, although my Dell i7 > tower is. :) IIRC it's about 2012 or so. Still going fine although > it's just a HDD-based mule. Upgrading it now to 12-STABLE. > > I am using it as a "refresher" on FreeBSD; I was paid by Bob Bruce > 1998 to 2000 to do "advocacy" for FreeBSD. I orchestrated the 3-way > press conference between the FreeBSD and NetBSD projects and Apple at > the release of DARWIN... time does pass... > > I have a relative who's asked me to make a specialized social network > for his business, and I've decided to return to using FreeBSD. Not all > hosting corps will support FreeBSD servers, but since I intend to > purchase and support everything through the business, that isn't an > issue. I'll buy Intel's fancy Optane caching boards when I buy servers > for the project, and every "drive" will be SS except for a portable > boot drive. > > > On 5/23/20, David Christensen wrote: >> On 2020-05-22 21:43, Donald Wilde wrote: >>> Service tag 5K8W162 >>> >>> I will try using MBR instead of GPT, as you suggest. I did that once >>> the first time and no joy. Other than that and using the USB instead >>> of DVD, the only other delta in your procedure is zeroing the disk and >>> ensuring that all settings in BIOS are set to default. >>> >>> Do I need to erase my USB key and only put the key-version ISO on it? >>> Why would that be superior to using a DVD, other than the waste of >>> plastic? >>> >>> The only other possible problem I can see is that I simply named the >>> machine, and did not create a meaningless FQDN (in my NAT). >>> >>> Thank you for your answer, and I WILCO. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-22 22:20, Clay Daniels wrote: >> > I would second all of David's suggestions, but would like to also >> recommend >> > using GParted to clear & write a new partition table, be it MBR or >> GPT. >> > GParted lets you take control of the drive. It's Gnome Partition >> Editor >> & >> > free: >> > >> > https://gparted.org/ >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-22 23:03, Manish Jain wrote: >> > I think we are using a nuclear missile to kill a mosquito ! >> > >> > The FreeBSD installer can do everything needed by itself. >> > >> > 1) Boot from the FreeBSD CD/DVD >> > >> > 2) Choose Install >> > >> > 3) At the disk setup page, choose Manual >> > >> > 4) Remove all existing partitions. When done that, press 'd' again >> (for >> > delete) with ada0 selected. That will delete the partition table >> itself. >> > >> > 5) Press 'c' (for create) to create a new MBR (DOS) partition table. >> > >> > 6) Create partitions as needed and install. >> > >> > That should be it. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-23 02:01, D'Arcy Cain wrote: >> > [Zeroing the disk] is exactly what I found when going from Linux to >> FreeBSD. Just run >> > dd(1) with input file /dev/zero on the raw disk before starting your >> > installation. You have to completely wipe out the Linux boot blocks. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-23 08:06, Donald Wilde wrote: >> > The MBR boot after wiping the disk was successful. YAY, Beasties! TYVM >> > for all the advice. :D >> > >> > Taking your thought to heart, D'Arcy, I'm going to try again with GPT >> > now that Linux is gone, gone, gone! :D >> >> >> I'm glad the BIOS/ MBR install worked. :-) >> >> >> That looks like a decent daily driver laptop, especially if you maxed >> out the RAM and installed a good SSD: >> >> >> https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/servicetag/0-aUlCTHJhMTkzWUs5S1dMQjN2WGdIdz090/overview >> >> >> My 2007 Inspiron E1505 gave me many years of service (with repairs and >> upgrades). It still works. >> >> >> I zero my USB flash drives before burning them with an installer image >> out of sheer OCD, but it should not be required. (I wrote a Perl script >> to only write zeros to dirty blocks, to conserve write cycles.) >> >> >> Most every x86 computer made in the last 30 years will have a USB port. >> Many newer computers, especially portable computers, do not have optical >> drives. >> >> >> It is easy to make changes to an installer on a USB flash drive, and you >> don't have to burn a disc for every edit-compile-test cycle. I hacked >> my FreeBSD USB installer to slice and partition system disks the way I >> like them. >> >> >> I have boogered installs many ways, including the hostname, FQDN, >> network name, and/or network settings. The FreeBSD installer offers you >> a root shell into the installed image near the end. If you know what >> file(s) to edit, you can fix those mistakes. Alternatively, some >> installers let you re-run specific steps. TIMTOWDI. >> >> >> I image my system disks regularly. Zero-filling them before an install >> saves image storage space. Partition editors within installers >> typically do not zero-fill. (I need to figure out how to zero unused >> blocks beneath GELI and ZFS prior to imaging; does anyone know how?) >> >> >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > > -- > Don Wilde > **************************************************** > * What is the Internet of Things but a system * > * of systems including humans? * > **************************************************** > -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 09:10:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F6D2F9031 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:10:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Vrs36m3Mz4dRG for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:09:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.22.204]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1My6xz-1iolVr1MR5-00zUel; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:09:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 11:09:46 +0200 From: Polytropon To: dwilde1@gmail.com Cc: David Christensen , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails Message-Id: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7IfvPWX+ffud5zU/U+rFXyzVB7qGERf+O4jvq81D1esiwCxEwd0 xVCFL9Slto1OKlree7/m21z7McY9C4Y8o0CJ5S7jbV9NhYvs7Sz9olVaju5GaLX0EPN36cn 8TWceSWXqeltJbhmVVvOoe+gp3K1Zi5ibm7ReP2Ggdp2wA92cbQTbdl2xGRnbAITeHWDQis XeB9jU+jY6uKHLRZMItNQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:aZntl+f56o0=:TsS+luwCnOpnY328eWVDia oZXUcB43SDgSivWj7PZ/r1m2Ft8tlMQGdzCbiXB392keLMyr2Ttr4KMWl94NIJYxJiI2s6qbM c7Yiz6psMStwSznRKLkrSX3kqOGLcUxkYd1ljqX7W5nyDHY0v6NjD4a9p3dXA40dzotsJf9EC oRrNiNgPwWVvxyafM1Qy4recOEbsc1a9fi5FiXlqWUep8lgaGCYanUuUD7pRfsOr/XjmpfBLP 3rzGOi98py7/Wi2430UK7bcbL7pQRB9eb1v7y8N5/z6dlOiKden9GnhTDraz/SAPLO8PcV3SA FERgtwf/ZPu0FoZqM9onpxfoI3jrTT2e/HV25DINxhi1eF07PlLX5YKOwPqs28vQrXkSLuQuP e7n1J3JMcJE0FuxrdOxa7c0eVT7HHlKAW4TaN8JOAeFZIr+i+hKJWiIs9PlRkrhNgIBrqDxcg 6QTuWeO76dhGB64MrRcAkPmR/BGboEj7bVfEH4Ia8NLfiG2t08SFLm+P5gLwXNT7e2rJF7Obl vti4vtV6R60N5eb7YvQtbaZ+8W8Toz+6LbCUPuNjYGFs8ocvJG1y9NdYZUPGrUqAsF6/WJxzq GM+gSB+bygGG/637ec6q9nrbz03h83J5qUx5q7ja/b7Z2o7sbul1hEyAqMTBKKGSW7xTign7v ENZznGORUgghhKypoLAh/PPmkNSGCem1jL+Z7e0Pp8ergOax3cn9XX7wBVly6sFT/ChsY8eKH WAXmLmeGBTIGwR5MmkhWc2keMyFq6IlFeFjVQY2rcrvFgGfi8Nghx7R6eO2S7CXu3KZDDUKa1 AYvyvl7kOzIbQYmZGoNgFXWF6HdkCQddc+RNzxPuZaCnCt55EB4QF8OyRMuCLYuIuUZMVxU X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Vrs36m3Mz4dRG X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.131) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.98 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.392]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.22.204:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.50)[0.505]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.47)[0.465]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.131:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.131:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 09:10:01 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > I had to remain with the MBR-based system. GPT just flat-out did not > work for me but I have got a working system and successfully updated > it to 12-STABLE. This is a strange observation, but still possible. Modern systems should work with GPT just fine. For example, I have a Lenovo laptop, probably 10+ years old, where I have a FreeBSD 12 installation using GPT for partitioning. This has been done using the "bsdinstall" installer. Sometimes a specific combination of { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. Please also see this excellent overview: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/disksetup.html > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > worked. It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most problems with ports. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 16:03:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE7032B108 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W22H1Gsfz43tN for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id v16so21301896ljc.8 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=9hbd0qGGVuR16b+cafWxwJyr6Qxfk3RakWnZyE2FJ2g=; b=Q5DmWwGSm3hnTq/nQ6rLkcLovosSHV1f+Tbf+FhzBaFqhI1nlTLbYSwcLr8nc7sAck /eR9rtJqam7CWSnRA01qhKjg9jfJRRr/HZOXGIeqq79UqDlC1PoEzO8RralcEkH55w4u SJMbd6ZGyt0NTgzSi/07tAETLYvO7MUoP4xMlKVeYUEv/mCyS8X3AUdPxU1Ft/HD08x/ 9lOKzR9tLtiCDwGePdlLgTZSVOu3M0q2SzslMquJzpAUqTvGjbsuaxFb5xbJOLwaeR0+ Ea5y8IauhixOaAOgRJZwUcr2JOv4xObHghDSGT4jxSiw1uiW6/AwNAeeVfybQ2+gp3er irkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9hbd0qGGVuR16b+cafWxwJyr6Qxfk3RakWnZyE2FJ2g=; b=B9OJ9rjp12PybkFtW46AVn6/MrmLOiPgelPcOjsej+WXSME8ZVeLsKtI6pRbLhjM/C /IAtGsoUZml8NUfaQTR8kyeF2DusYrvHWRcpr1W/OdWSJ5pOCRmVuY96RyG/+rxCnsB5 DVwMks599r80qVQfHfd6iJLy9DiDJB7VM6Tzx/My30LFJBtNC0Occ07XtsfIO/FmQDDt xoYUJxalMYiSCxAhNovikNrSPUT1GrcmRRc3e01CLwGIVssvpF8I4Inzkg9gge1zBT9w YiaWi7GAdjqJ/U0yn0/SnmpK/XsYm7p/AAQ9S4G7b61xnN39yPrQNnTjnN1n486maRwo VN6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533bHuJaBF3A+BrTzbK2G/O+uPTtGsfdcov/e+8q9WZwYj5pme4W RKnqHGfOldubUvZTo3vzJ1aIWyuYIuewaMro2YU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNgt+T9yuR4ZTZ99BXftf8B6WOk/u4KcmuAr3KjKmoErqoBD0c03QRbQNKU7Sd5WW5vlyJmTWVBOhrgg6P4QQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3215:: with SMTP id y21mr674079ljy.85.1590422613225; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: Polytropon Cc: David Christensen , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W22H1Gsfz43tN X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Q5DmWwGS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.37 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.35)[-0.348]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.018]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::234:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:36 -0000 > Sometimes a specific combination of > > { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } > > can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. You would think, wouldn't you? When I enabled UEFI, it promptly ignored everything except my NICs so that was out. Using Legacy BIOS it successfully built and allowed access to my system but only with MBR-format file system. No GPT worked, at least with partitioning. > > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > > worked. > > It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" > for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most > problems with ports. :-) As I say, /usr/ports/misc/freebsd-doc-en did me in. Corrupted the whole system. Anybody else want to play guinea pig? Steps to reproduce: 1) Update to 12-STABLE from 12.1R 2) Update the Handbook installation (without first installing dependencies graphics/graphviz and lang/vala) Reminded me of how much a 'learning experience' FreeBSD is... This port is such an amazing, layered set of dependencies it is starkly amazing that it can be made to work at all. Vala? WT[DELETED] is vala? I had to look it up! :) The flexibility of FreeBSD can be tiresome at times but that configurability will come to my rescue at some point. Game on, and again, thanks for all the advice! :D -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 18:31:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C6132EC18 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W5Jz3cdyz4JmS for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 04PIVNAd070268; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Doug Denault To: Polytropon cc: Odhiambo Washington , User Questions Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation In-Reply-To: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W5Jz3cdyz4JmS X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of doug@safeport.com designates 198.74.231.101 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=doug@safeport.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.877]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:198.74.231.101]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.79)[-0.793]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[safeport.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.529]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:198.74.228.0/22, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:32 -0000 On Sat, 23 May 2020, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 23 May 2020 10:47:37 +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> Look at it this way: Ardent FreeBSD guys started PC-BSD, which was quite good >> for the Desktop. They then changed to TrueOS (just the name) and finally >> decided that TrueOS is better left to be their server version and >> https://project-trident.org/ to be their Desktop version. The later is based >> on something called Void Linux (I am hearing about that for the first time >> today after your post prompted me to look for PC-BSD, TrueOS). So either head >> to Project Trident or just identify some Linux for the Desktop. You will have >> and an easier life. I have two issues here: (1) too many of them; (2) the FreeBSD source doe not necessarily match a release level. > Additionally, what about Lumina? FreeBSD was supposed to get a native desktop > environment that better suited the needs for working with FreeBSD (as the OS) > than desktops ported from Linux, which still don't really offer a consistent > and useful interface to FreeBSD system functions and configuration. Of course, > this would only cover the desktop - not any application program (like web > browser, office suite, vector graphics program, photo manipulation or video > editing tool), which are again coming from Linux, and therefore carry a lot of > specific dependencies where the gap of "FreeBSD vs. Linux" seems to be > increasing. I mentioned system functions: Lumina was supposed to offer GUI > interfaces to system configuration, hardware management, networking, OS and > application updates, diagnostics, and so on, things that most users would > probably expect to be integrated in a desktop. > > So I'd say, if you want a "just works", use Linux. You'll find all things > mentioned in an integrated form, working. Because it was made for Linux, it > will work on Linux. Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I should have included it for reference but I use my desk top as a first look at what's gonna happen when I update the servers. So out-of-the-box is not my goal at all. I'm pretty old and decided when I was not so old I had one more OS "in me" and decided FreeBSD was it for reasons that made sense (at least to me :). Back in the 4.5 days it was most useful in un-IBMing my thinking and instincts, and becoming a reasonable unix sysadmin. Partly all this is because I believe FreeBSD can not give up on the Desktop world and remain in the server world. (See pair.com). To that end, I really believe in the thing I read somewhere (maybe Richie) that the Unix philosophy is "I will not stop you from doing something incredibly stupid, because that may stop you from doing something incredibly clever". The PHP project is the exact opsite of this. > That is not a statement that suggests that it's impossible to get an excellent > desktop with FreeBSD (I know it - I'm using them for decades). There is even a > port "mkdesktop" that does most of the work for you: You select which desktop > you want, and the port will take care of the dependencies. > > The core problem is: "the desktop" means different things to different people. > What does it include? Just a GUI file manager and icons on the wallpaper? Or > bundled applications? And what about integration with the OS, so you can > configure your system? The "problem" with choice: Whatever your definition is, > you'll definitely find something that suits your needs. :-) What I am doing meets my needs. I was not clear on that. In fighting with the HP and othe BIOS's and solving other installation problems, rare is the day I do not learn something useful to my server-self. My comment was more along the line that I did not understand at all, and still do not I guess, understand what making the head of the ports tree being tied to a release level had as a goal. I was suprised at the relatively small number of common libraries between the ports that make interium pkg updates unlikely (for me). Because of the small intersection I was wondering if the 'pkg' problem could in fact be mitigated in the Make files. Having written all this I guess you nailed me, in that I am mostly complaining that I want others to solve my ports issue, which is largely self-imposed. I really appreciate the feedback. _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 18:54:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E42932F82F for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x241.google.com (mail-lj1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W5qY4BVcz4NGb; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x241.google.com with SMTP id a25so10121834ljp.3; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZTwwrrUNg7dcZ5pTU6UrDNSYbOfOIEj4yyTT6579mTM=; b=VdIIRe7Li8anQTFZoy2oyGFYh+tXg2XiKHPFDnMDMSEtF5hmHt45t7hRbCDfYC/g7J tmvsqaq7jcK/j0jcJEwwf62cHRhmIoAeGH0GSvRD/eX3jPA+z80G1wkNWMfs57l+xDY3 lGaTfbyTulfGAQla/dW7KofiWHRVjZ0OoMDbd5iN3mxFK4M7l7Ta2TZjtJ8meqaxGukM SGa5JD0abkeTKYMSMMPlF0Uo8LGJM4oG5YurUBTCr75EadeIipbNWuxk/wce9OHgRGPk 0g3Kb9z3uAnVKrG/YalYZTnxXs3roivqVXDgIdJTH8jDapnuCDy4ZlGWK/rqKzypRmGw TCbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ZTwwrrUNg7dcZ5pTU6UrDNSYbOfOIEj4yyTT6579mTM=; b=ktZ14xqLIft6adklmCJ7htd/L4ZgHd4U/1B+cspxJ9Yu4QckVTud8svYqkOHZeL76p /YYMUpCMlDkaN9gVP8gzwXiwkIlv2JwMQiZdua1pshw/vgP1ZWshHx/tNZr4KYz4euyL 5VQyUauJDLAnWNCz13VkLvRwpdPgaRpzP5KIjEgnV+uwkq7eQsEakjoaKkxD2YAShgnK ciLpOuHmzRyos6y9N5lM1roRU+v8zE7+OxCTTRIkOosFPtaXjx9fTN2kxx074GtVJPVF ix0dufE6vtqZ+THanA09jreB0BIFieFdX6h5/yRiXGNeYk48aZX+te3OZOD06pANqv2j hl5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ppQ34OZbnbOC2SIPWIhiRxVisDW0xrLrSRf5rEYrZCgUp8j70 6x6Tu8ZQ8ABw/ANnH2Q40yN+YZpBZLBrb77D7m8LYX7z X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxjGkH69lKosi+qX6VSQ9v3qMKJWj6ErOuCP7CoaOoFe/scOVp7p36nJ1mu6ZqaYe3kcLVHZK+eEm0CHGDzB+w= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3215:: with SMTP id y21mr980336ljy.85.1590432871244; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: freebsd-questions Cc: ericbsd@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W5qY4BVcz4NGb X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=VdIIRe7L; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.07 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT_BOGUS(1.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.335]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.918]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.920]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain,text/x-log]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::241:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:34 -0000 Adding the Synth maintainer, Eric. Eric, this all started when I tried to update my Handbook to 12-STABLE. Silly me... Synth crashed it again, but it didn't kill the machine -- I thought. It did run out of swap space. I started installing the ports manually to see what was going on,and it gave me a very interesting response when I tried to 'pkg install graphviz'. It updated the FreeBSD repo successfully, but then it tried to update the Synth repo. I suspect that what happened is that it built a large stack/structure of objects to write to the Synth /var/log directory and blew through all the swap space I had, making a wreck of my install. At least I am getting better at this! ;-] -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 22:06:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BAF2CC0B3 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WB5K5ndSz3Sr7 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id c185so4606296qke.7 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=BjItdOnz0peKnCzv3JQsZTBV6QRVc62AxLqbd3GHinQ=; b=rJR/lUWDy8tfX35QIpRNvZw50ymMChirAqytRy0zw1MgZ/6KdYrmzLMs+7/MehBHEz MV88thQQtJ0bhjpVEIA1neknaqUXcTaweqsRXltzrSBnI3OX8WfacEzNrzVrOPoGsJ80 /Q/m8MsDi4UuO/hJ/t4lmvpPEvD2AU+LM1gjM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=BjItdOnz0peKnCzv3JQsZTBV6QRVc62AxLqbd3GHinQ=; b=Yx3bNJRdpC4IeRby+mluRsAUnrICBV5QyxQdrAkhe3XQ1PVKVIsXJl+H8Y2mn26RNj GxnUyQ27c9u6vD4k4c4h+Jst1xSvg3BVdgH/LHkW2zFD4lGOuIurxxFZors/mXqWVljU atFezMHTMLrtkObxMqQxfKD9HwROu1gp75oY7lntM2Bd94YxyL8RetvDd9prP+toBshe XVh/ixE0pYA5DGo0n0yVjQAOzUIEWTZq2ehNaY3T990ul0J+jcsE1p5QJ1zEzMOwKaQP BVI+c9qr3maVEJ3bcyW/OiGG9H/coiu21CY3zt0ovuWKJiXao/DWx3/DOJy1EWYNBjCC uW7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532DssKCsaM6oDaintsfkYXEcATW+yYMeQUbILiESLUVaPdHKAEC pgrU3QXTwQghlk6kxD/9KtngdiW5utc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzi5LuQOAGohM32NxZE0N1+XM0gvYIH3zx3gyiAxkE1l+Y7nnGIXuuEVlWNHBFwiPHFgPZlpg== X-Received: by 2002:aed:35af:: with SMTP id c44mr7641413qte.349.1590443984954; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g66sm15644504qkb.122.2020.05.25.14.59.43 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 25 May 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hp-envy.seibercom.net [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49W9xC0cTGzc3n for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 17:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 17:59:34 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation Message-ID: <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WB5K5ndSz3Sr7 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=rJR/lUWD; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::729 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.55 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[174.109.225.250:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.936]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.016]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.10)[0.105]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::729:from]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:46 -0000 --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT), Doug Denault commented: >To that end, I really believe in the thing I read somewhere (maybe >Richie) that the Unix philosophy is "I will not stop you from doing >something incredibly stupid, because that may stop you from doing >something incredibly clever". The PHP project is the exact opsite of >this. "It is not the computer's job to stop you from shotting yourself in the foot, but rather, to deliver the bullet with the utmost accuracy." --=20 Jerry --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl7MP8cACgkQOHMGOIfe xWQA0AgAw/636oBFB232oAbvBwIQRGEuuT0Gfsl9MUd8rqBQqoOldTZwBb2M/CI8 HEMmrr7w5OTnL0OBqirhaj8yb45Rn6j1EZT84YRTYRrWDy6xp0Tl+4w+KZKTLkMQ OG1+lHxHIlGmlStCHmUlDZUB3nVEMa7wd8dbksftsUCwNhxYg1PWWnbzlkQBr4cr Ks+VXLHhZQt7VV4vnYk/BNBYKuEu0JE+gGerWM3MphjCV+z5NYBYxoobVmQAOXBW 1j5Fu2Fed4+sn5HNjajPxd8Ds/EPC2EqXRuCZEFca3U5Ar3j9auysjX7g+YtWDQb 0qK8rNw9tfMX5XdU39RcIKFut13nhQ== =Y4cy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 22:21:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6047D2CCF0F for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WBPr0Wfzz3VHC for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id e125so11216054lfd.1 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=PBQ8KiWOAXLTqzaVub9+iYycOpRL2rn3V741z6UExiI=; b=hqVVBXEsdMnX3OCYDt0JD83WEK8zpkrhM54e5bZOaVPkJ6NiQPojYjbe46bpnUNNtE Iaf2O6pk1Wzy9xBSxVutuWINtY9EDpBtwK0VfmnG3rFpnJnr61a7VuCYGDca58nxZXIB /F8wG9Q679WSaq0jRZBCZzaZzmxwKuNu1ov2KSSWYyxV4LUUEftPs9FkC4RVT81eNqm/ 5huAoC3mxK6NpcS4XwgM9DFZkPCrsy8K7zrH+xMoUqeIOkfW5GccATsY/CTjpsVaCIdO EWnh4Xta0KzVLWZlFsFCmuN2kocnAmvgPqQRiN6vGC7tEYAUbqmA0BZBXg2cMSmNHQlA sirg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PBQ8KiWOAXLTqzaVub9+iYycOpRL2rn3V741z6UExiI=; b=g8g5SbUM7rc+MOTdNMNz6iAzG4W+pnJr+mkgMTCx2oDHQH6UVCry7IBZXyMsCuZKO9 GgzfQoCEad1rmpmk+2LMvV1Q/Zd2IRnXMVbQiox31RNECEQGvpGbaNZkkyDZbAyOl3TE b1WaAF9vIXyE3v0SpFMgr9FEgAQ/oWiG2ctoVeNG95PvKNXw0Z+I4ZZFJrp9bt21N0jX cF6yWSu+gfZFDBhj9puRbo/lnJyYFxdIYvkiJBdVps6eTvVzPIgP0o67vu4yuckTZVkj jmybdsr3amI3rOBNuaO0G92MqVJ48undA87ghpfubBHfyxesb0FF/UdCuWJV+Nob+Jia GqWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZPtWHESmMCaDBTjZpZNR3aoqn71rQwy070Gnq/bKAUg61j3v5 f4pxJC8qKPaNKX5raYjqdC/yXvvcIKLLWfkSWwauXZ/y X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxba5AH/nB+hJujODtst7aUXlcyQppgD5UUxL81DiYgM3aUCR5kzMMKTr/FXObVWBH0R7LvQw/MrPfsvVa5PD4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c88e:: with SMTP id y136mr15873703lff.78.1590445260685; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WBPr0Wfzz3VHC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:04 -0000 > "It is not the computer's job to stop you from shooting yourself in the > foot, but rather, to deliver the bullet with the utmost accuracy." -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 23:30:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D159B2CE768 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x841.google.com (mail-qt1-x841.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::841]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WCxT1t83z3c79 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x841.google.com with SMTP id o19so14818329qtr.10 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Yu5n0c7RomJy5ZPkat6Rawyxnqr2nngu6u96jEh9V9I=; b=jxqjeobGXYAZiWgsa9fijpfGV+ZSbqTB+LxtUuQUQvVyJwAcYa+9k0wZZjrH5rZsmV 7ZEGsY9Y+v0I7EUGHBNBEU5zqSKuSO3/zvjon22Z0wfwsYnM5g6Uq7ODJYIp2u58vTr6 FgnWbMvE6NDfUj/cGnVYBMoCRIQuOVmbmv7F353LggtFIfOgxt5QvfIkVAUJBITZ1jC6 xPaJwbp3wT4kMjeN/ALK2WETVayYwwParmeZgnxh3us+8y2TqPK/V/6LFn8SS/EzGmeE ogoYOdDfb0PCCYhW37R+SaidV3T0MSHQAjWfmON8dsUgirjWWY5s/UDvo13oAaPE0Tay KR8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Yu5n0c7RomJy5ZPkat6Rawyxnqr2nngu6u96jEh9V9I=; b=FFdlfDF0Rm8XZg5MhSJu+egjAp9LfQh7cD18GQEwCvXtBd/8MkmFp9/N2W0Uz3B6S+ JfoQVb4QZC+Mn9eyhDo/8KgK4+M5hLmpYQPmszxd0LLVbC3AhLicEKeVjPyHwyQETsWa C/cxsmq1VvWYjjRReG1gIagJogLuiBd3oOASGlZgK2yRHNThg1xyI0Zci48AALGzEu4e dJxc1MB4ddDCJt9DbQ+aoOIIOm2A3aHtaBBZTitQv871xtA6Wk71Z88NBg1tJgHliXcC aayB+KYLoCUkkCdxY6x33VnduIMZjOi6yoUuPuopO9VXt2moXk68BkUVJ2V6r4u4YA5N NaRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5318jq7d0IQ3OXyIji8P9TLtAdYLRhKI95W7fXgB7MuukPONzx4d OxhujeB4OcWRooAGJDeIGPD3s05IH+dg8Kzgo/6XJw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxWWwscO1xw5/s+v1Hl4kdeFxGVIw+BO09+4d/fsoTjJFVuEoUMrV53KXjFJwpk1NhKN4VqQqtZjc4DlnWJvvM= X-Received: by 2002:aed:27c7:: with SMTP id m7mr10661930qtg.138.1590449404372; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Michael Sierchio Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: dwilde1@gmail.com Cc: Polytropon , David Christensen , FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WCxT1t83z3c79 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=jxqjeobG; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kudzu@tenebras.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::841) smtp.mailfrom=kudzu@tenebras.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.960]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.226]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::841:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 -0000 This is way more complex than what you need, edit away. I've never observed this to fail. I avoid UEFI boot unless it's unavoidable. I've never observed it to fail, and I use it to build EC2 instances where I have no console access. It might seem that there are a lot of partitions, but I build security appliances. #!/bin/sh PATH=3D/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin DISK=3D"$1" BOOTSIZ=3D"128k" ROOTSIZ=3D"1GB" SWAPSIZ=3D"1GB" TMPSIZ=3D"1GB" VARSIZ=3D"2GB" # Why have a separate /var/tmp partition? Security. # world-writable directories (with mode 041777) should be noexec,nosuid VARTMPSIZ=3D"1GB" # you really want this to be unique for each disk PFX=3D"XG55qAUrKwbPR" ###########################################################################= ##### # Partition Disk ###########################################################################= ##### # delete any partition data already on disk offset=3D`diskinfo $DISK | awk '{ print $4 - 128 }'` dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/$DISK bs=3D${BOOTSIZ} count=3D1 dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/$DISK seek=3D$offset # create partition table gpart create -s gpt ${DISK} # add boot partition # p1 gpart add -t freebsd-boot -l $PFX-boot -s ${BOOTSIZ} ${DISK} # put boot code in boot partition gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i 1 ${DISK} # add root, make sectors aligned # p2 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-root -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${ROOTSIZ} ${DISK} # add swap # p3 gpart add -t freebsd-swap -l $PFX-swap -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${SWAPSIZ} ${DISK} # add tmp # p4 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-tmp -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${TMPSIZ} ${DISK} # add var # p5 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-var -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${VARSIZ} ${DISK} # add vartmp # p6 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-vartmp -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${VARTMPSIZ} ${DISK} # add usr (remainder of disk) # p7 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-usr -a ${BOOTSIZ} ${DISK} ###########################################################################= ##### # make filesystems, mount points, mount all ###########################################################################= ##### echo "making filesystems..." # make filesystems, no softupdates on root newfs /dev/${DISK}p2 echo "mounting filesystems..." mkdir -p /mnt mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p2 /mnt mkdir -p /mnt/tmp /mnt/var /mnt/usr chmod a+rwxt /mnt/tmp newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p4 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p5 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p6 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p7 mount -o rw,nosuid,noexec /dev/${DISK}p4 /mnt/tmp mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p5 /mnt/var mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p7 /mnt/usr mkdir -p /mnt/var/tmp mount -o rw,nosuid,noexec /dev/${DISK}p6 /mnt/var/tmp chmod a+rwxt /mnt/tmp /mnt/var/tmp tar -xf /usr/local/src/base.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/kernel.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/lib32.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/src.txz -C /mnt cat < /mnt/etc/fstab /dev/gpt/${PFX}-root / ufs rw,noatime 1 1 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-swap.eli none swap sw 0 0 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-tmp /tmp ufs rw,noexec,nosuid 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-var /var ufs rw,noatime 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-vartmp /var/tmp ufs rw,noexec,nosuid 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-usr /usr ufs rw,noatime 2 2 EOF cat < /mnt/etc/rc.conf fsck_y_enable=3D"YES" background_fsck=3D"YES" background_fsck_delay=3D"60" hostname=3D"name-me" # this nonsense is because I don't know what instance type I am yet # one is guaranteed to fail, the other, to succeed network_interfaces=3D"lo0 xn0 ena0 eth0 enc0" ifconfig_xn0=3D"name eth0" ifconfig_ena0=3D"name eth0" ifconfig_eth0=3D"SYNCDHCP" # do what you like here sshd_enable=3D"YES" syslogd_enable=3D"YES" syslogd_flags=3D"-sCcc" service_enable=3D"YES" firewall_enable=3D"NO" EOFF On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:03 AM Donald Wilde wrote: > > Sometimes a specific combination of > > > > { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } > > > > can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. > > You would think, wouldn't you? When I enabled UEFI, it promptly > ignored everything except my NICs so that was out. Using Legacy BIOS > it successfully built and allowed access to my system but only with > MBR-format file system. No GPT worked, at least with > partitioning. > > > > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > > > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > > > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > > > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > > > worked. > > > > It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" > > for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most > > problems with ports. :-) > > As I say, /usr/ports/misc/freebsd-doc-en did me in. Corrupted the > whole system. Anybody else want to play guinea pig? > > Steps to reproduce: > > 1) Update to 12-STABLE from 12.1R > 2) Update the Handbook installation (without first installing > dependencies graphics/graphviz and lang/vala) > > Reminded me of how much a 'learning experience' FreeBSD is... This > port is such an amazing, layered set of dependencies it is starkly > amazing that it can be made to work at all. > > Vala? WT[DELETED] is vala? I had to look it up! :) > > The flexibility of FreeBSD can be tiresome at times but that > configurability will come to my rescue at some point. > > Game on, and again, thanks for all the advice! :D > > -- > Don Wilde > **************************************************** > * What is the Internet of Things but a system * > * of systems including humans? * > **************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is = no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 23:46:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEAB62CF081 for ; 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Mon, 25 May 2020 16:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: Michael Sierchio Cc: Polytropon , David Christensen , FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WDJw6DTQz3d7R X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SJOgs0b4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; 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