Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 08:58:36 +0100 From: David Chisnall <theraven@freebsd.org> To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU> Cc: toolchain@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current <current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: GCC withdraw Message-ID: <1DB38CEA-6821-4206-8F5A-24EDF1483223@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.1.10.1308312147110.16692@multics.mit.edu> References: <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <201308291344.25562.jhb@freebsd.org> <A981C965-D625-458B-B0AB-171C983AEA42@FreeBSD.org> <201308301041.18874.jhb@freebsd.org> <20130831073330.GC36239@funkthat.com> <98D31DD3-8A1D-46ED-9BF6-9EBE39640860@freebsd.org> <alpine.GSO.1.10.1308312147110.16692@multics.mit.edu>
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--Apple-Mail=_44BBE6AB-A070-4794-A716-1A9712C2128B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 1 Sep 2013, at 02:53, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU> wrote: > I am worried about the definition of "polished". I held my tongue in = Ottawa in 2011 when Kirk wanted to turn SU+J on by default, since I = figured he knew what was going on much better than I did. Then, we = discovered the bad interactions between SU+J and snapshots. If memory = serves, things like sparc64 and mips64 support for clang/llvm and XCC = suppor are being described as only "a few man-months work away". But = that seems to be just to get something which is working ... I fear that = to get it truly "polished" will be another 2-3 years on top of those = man-months. If we are in agreement about what "polished" means, then by = all means announce with 10.0 that gcc's days are numbered and drop it at = the appropriate 10.x. I just don't want us to discover terrible bugs a = few months after we make a switch, due to being wrong about "polished". We are using XCC to build FreeBSD today, on x86 with experimental tools = and on MIPS with the compiler in base. It works, but it could do with = better documentation. That's what I mean by polishing: making sure that = it doesn't just work, it works and is easy to use. Part of this will = involve ensuring that we have packages for cross compilers for various = platforms so that it's really easy to just install a package with the = cross toolchain you want and point your already-installed source tree at = it to get a cross-build environment. =20 Many of us have been running clang-is-cc for a long time and we're now = seeing more port build failures on 10-with-gcc than 10-without-gcc. = That's what I mean by polished. The SPARC back end in LLVM is marked as experimental. Looking over the = code, it's actually in a better state than I thought it would be. Some = people seem to be working on it. It's not something I would count on = getting to a useable state though. If SPARC is to remain a supported = architecture, then we'll probably be using an external toolchain for it, = unless someone wants to spend a couple of months chasing bugs in the = LLVM SPARC back end. Oracle seems to be being quite effective at = killing SPARC64 as an architecture for running anything other than = Oracle appliances, but SPARC32 is still quite popular in aerospace so it = may still be an interesting platform in a few years. David --Apple-Mail=_44BBE6AB-A070-4794-A716-1A9712C2128B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSIvOtAAoJEKx65DEEsqIduRQP/AxMrYQDz83DCcd41PHY7+dx GpkOpbW9GKbMr6GM5WbXi8wdUc0aYsl1GZ9wKjvf2wKia+LgHYgSxHehv4/FArTQ zy+Ix//m+bdSw+8PLSZQm7Rh9PAooNhNDF1YHKMrufXq/uZ8L7iL/LUNqV4A+gsR jDlAvCyNIut1M6ZWbjHrRexGbWgVO5Bw1Gd/eYWEIaygJt6D9acN8EbRfBJHWDxe ov59JZOAg6E7oLnWxVgt88WFv3XobuSbLXjOwCiCRSDvJT5TnDrgQ/I+SBR5G2tp U05pXb98apvqid8z9w3GY1WyB6j5HhKKkqr2dfHx5XFzOgCXvO6k63KFrxiB09ZF CJv7cv1CgM/VHb6RmpfCOHsepmePzh1d+RQnDd+YmNfWOP7aKmGN1Dskx1pqPVVH VKg1Ko5XvDAj92ncRwzfrgkVA4wdJMnlLDmOF34SNQ9bs0DAzuplzmVq0sZ2nCdb hMMlUo82VrENFjcRUYar2LZo56p1Dj6fFG8StHjdMarxLxZ08ASFvOeIjgTg6kPN ZYSb5N6nt1taklMN49XIG4NphWj7a3W3uOgF/eML/NNHAcrYVmoZoDSayA2nkUU8 oWFa3DBffDuPi8fiLaMgww18BkjYFpQC+XSHkGfGllqDISDRAWvI5JFU6r1PPv7d b22lJeW+BnheeZDZXm0k =h0Hq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_44BBE6AB-A070-4794-A716-1A9712C2128B--
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