From owner-freebsd-libh Fri Apr 5 12: 5:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts24.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.187]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ABCE37B417 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:05:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from khan.anarcat.dyndns.org ([65.94.191.9]) by tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020405200541.GEV4902.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@khan.anarcat.dyndns.org>; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:05:41 -0500 Received: from lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org (lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org [192.168.0.4]) by khan.anarcat.dyndns.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 535621B22; Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:04:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:04:36 -0500 From: The Anarcat To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: Antoine Beaupre , freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: libh learning curve, etc. Message-ID: <20020405200435.GA284@lenny.anarcat.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , "Gary W. Swearingen" , Antoine Beaupre , freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.org References: <370BA4FE-48A2-11D6-945B-0050E4A0BB3F@anarcat.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri Apr 05, 2002 at 10:57:13AM -0800, Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Antoine Beaupre writes: >=20 > > If you ever worked on a already-started project, you would know that > > it's much harder to document and promote code that's already written. >=20 > Nobody expects detailed source code documentation. Almost no free > software has that. But some current (and prospective) high-level > documents would benefit the project. Of course, I realize that many > people join projects for reasons other than the benefit of the project, > and I respect that, but it seemed clear that the -libh project was > devoting almost none of its time to Public Relations and that sort of > thing and very much needed to be "reminded about it" (as you put it). >=20 > As a former Linux web index maintainer, I've seen a lot of project web > sites, and think I have a feel for their importance to the project. > (No evidence, but a feel, nonetheless.) For instance, the early GNOME > web site was a marvel of good, simple layout, covering all the bases > and looking good without being flashy. And I suspect that it was > responsible for encouraging the entry of many developers to the project. It comes back mainly to "just do it". I'm no web designer. I can probably work out some high-level documentation, but I feel that would be re-inventing the wheel. The paper jkh wrote isn't that bad and it sums up how libh is structured. I'm trying to document libh as I go along, but it's not easy. It's especially hard to get a clear view of the whole thing since a lot of things are interdependant in libh. > > I think it might be a good idea to put a tarball of a port snapshot on > > the website thought. >=20 > Good idea. And links to web sites for TVision and TCL and Qt (and to > licenses to those and your own).=20 Will do. > And links to articles like the one JKH > did last September for the 5.0 to-do list. People can use Google, like > I did, but you should make it easy for them. Google returned 10 pages > on "freebsd libh" but there were maybe 5 pages of good value. Google gives me 30 matches, but none useful as projects/libh.html. :) =20 > > > files. > >=20 > > That's because libh is not part of the main freebsd CVS repository. >=20 > There's a few files there. Enough to waste 10 or 15 minutes figuring it > out. You should say on your website what you just told me. It's said on the website: "CVS repository Libh is available through anonymous CVS pserver (empty password): cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@usw4.FreeBSD.org:/home/libh/cvs" There are around 5 files regarding libh on the whole CVS repository: =2E/ports/misc/libh =2E/www/en/projects/libh.sgml,v > > *That's* not constructive. >=20 > Why not? I can envision a project with a separate list for such notices. I guess so. Right now, libh's developpment isn't very fast so I don't think it would be worth it. > > 1- get sponsorship > > 2- get people to work on libh > >=20 > > The problem with [1] is that noone seems to be interested in sponsoring > > a tool so unimportant (!). And the problem with [2] is that we need to > > work on documentation and design documents, and to get there, we need > > [2]. >=20 > From the looks of the list archives, you have some coders. I just > wanted to remind them that you can generate more code by attracting more > coders than you can by coding. Of course, personal purposes are a > factor and you have to let yourselves spend most of your time doing what > benefits yourself, not the project. But hopefully not 99.94% of it. I prefer to get libh working than fight to get people working on libh since people don't usually stay interested very long on libh. ;) > > There was some good criticism, but I'm getting tired of seeing people > > just pass by the page and say: "Hey, this looks like it needs some help, > > let's complain to -libh@!". Yes the code is under-documented, yes, we > > need some solid design documents. Thank you for reminding us. >=20 > Forget about the code being under-documented. Document at a high level. > Turn the JKH memo into a document that at least looks like it reflects > the current design. Give people a few diagrams to look at. Etc.=20 I think it does reflect current design, but I can't tell for sure. I guess I could put some snapshots of the disk editor to get some people drooling. ;) > I'd say the project was very lucky to get someone as willing as you were > to work past the reaction and work hard enough to learn whether you > wanted to be a part of the project. Thank you, A. --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjyuA1MACgkQttcWHAnWiGcpvQCfbXMcTUV+/8xL9S0/pRG9RbtH KGkAn3HrLw+y5Usxh50bfSfbITfSZsh8 =jOJE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-libh" in the body of the message