From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Feb 18 17:30:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECCA240E65 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48MSYG5X0qz4dWj for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:30:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.36.223]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MBDzc-1jAAxs2Qec-00CfU1; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:30:14 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:30:10 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "@lbutlr" Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-Id: <20200218183010.5a52441f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <85E7C97E-EF8B-4FC7-8EF1-758B7BCBAE90@kreme.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:71q1JAcjUTB67+oS+jznlz+KZkfUUECr6nPtKIHXs8yxkOVGx7u PA3q5qmzWsUrXI9muLfW1EuWaVImor8ZWPc2jQ7TSwHKS3NX5oJ4IwhVUkftTvn6By6XMrw i4ZXTmlj0TULdZv9C0qxFoRhaPbKV6k8yjF/PQZK5ZK68t9hPM00W2Tftsic+UldQjoGU0o tkj7BgMIUDhc1QUQoBLIg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:fHF3TfkeT2s=:Syf8Ml5KH9SC6qwGb2Vake CupxNGW6cHuoDmQ1CnrLT68EO8M42iK174B93j9GjYtnHAp7M+NJSRY6jh6ZjybJUT8g3xT8j 19GfRfQF2mJmPfGMbLG/TJ60ZtW8BXVDuarEOjWg0TKxSDz10G6fF3Kj8ox36S8TLewWtg7Eu se/4YTTqWrePfepAfG9p65VhgE8ZfyN2WOyVgRqSvEcUFCjhr2DNoZmR6MONuwtx3Zujruolh m1jesLl9Zbp5g0q6yanv62nRm66nQO/G/2hhJrTBJ6gpyfYp5hBdSOLciu2brRxhVvzm7eGBG 58kFr2Z103/TZQo2qrlahcc2MKsCKUM5mp/Q3ptRmyhIvAwHVAJ9sm2TegOQytEgo58ITEjKq BnqIm/V9SR6DMgTqajwqwFSWH8lweR0pLNZTTWcpDVPtoHzRbDuFjpIeBuA28piCZEewgfFnF P00qi4dQE/+FCj9Z+xUGiQnxSfL8mBib8Wla+nm9w2TpbMC1cTX1Ss03WFI/hFVpz8qVeRaZy bdPimutJsEp8Ds6QfliwWuIf04zQsJHQkR1KD+LweXX11tICte08B36lobge0BoBKFTCKC8tT WTZ4m1Ndu2ChFlknCihWWv9Ua54fzDskaqlsq3eVYewbEIm5JVfH8GTYpTEanLp5qd0nLkgzH arMf+6de6pejS/1PckdaQCnwfu7SzjkkcnUFaa7kfhwJPvzwqwhtSPtBMUIEDm3NxuR0g6UCt U9Gr+0Gc/mNg3pL7Gkxw8+uH2CMLzBtpk4YKx5PRrzthzQJaZSH3oBjG+d559mdvF4DEJqM7F 4azv9tW1q1nsmTK1pwQwMfd/ifwKELxDIRk9gR2/80vOLA0KEdMXYcC3g4TyoeB6OpE9GGD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48MSYG5X0qz4dWj X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.75) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[223.36.8.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.990,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.994,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[75.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.36)[ip: (-0.68), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.33), asn: 8560(2.19), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 17:30:28 -0000 On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 04:00:18 -0700, @lbutlr wrote: > On 17 Feb 2020, at 20:23, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > [...] > > FreeBSD does not seem to be reliable desktop environment > > True for ever non-Apple Unix variant. Most (that is to say > nearly all) FreeBSD installs are non0desktop servers. I'm using FreeBSD since 4.0 as my primary desktop. While 12.0 and 12.1 definitely had issues, it never impacted me (or my clients or family), so it's still here as a desktop solution that works. Of course I can understand the "never touch a running system". As an illustration, I still support one special customer who has a FreeBSD 4.4 Or was it 4.10?) system still running (XFree86, _not_ X.org!). There is a replacement ready, but the customer just doesn't want to replace this airgapped and isolated system, because whenever we discuss the options, he tells me: "Never touch a running system. As long as it works, no need to 'fix' something." On desktop systems, especially those including web browsers and so-called "productivity software" (i. e., office suites), security is far more important, as new approaches to broken software concepts and flaky hardware (yes, I'm looking at you, Mister Intelprocessor!) and their exploitation are being invented very quickly. So the OS has to provide the optimal solutions for mitigation. A faster release cycle surely helps a lot. Newer security flaws probably require methods of dealing with them that cannot be easily ported to older releases, so that's probably the reason why they are not supported that long. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...