From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Thu Dec 21 05:07:47 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F6FAEA0BC0 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:07:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adamw@adamw.org) Received: from apnoea.adamw.org (apnoea.adamw.org [104.225.5.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "apnoea.adamw.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 721957576D; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adamw@adamw.org) Received: by apnoea.adamw.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 629fa4f2 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO; Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:07:44 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; delsp=yes; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Subject: Re: Procmail got updated! From: Adam Weinberger In-Reply-To: <05504d3c-3225-e83f-8f10-225319421a35@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2017 22:07:42 -0700 Cc: Eugene Grosbein , Ted Hatfield , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Sunpoet Po-Chuan Hsieh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <5A39F7C9.1030800@grosbein.net> <05504d3c-3225-e83f-8f10-225319421a35@gmx.de> To: Matthias Andree X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 05:07:47 -0000 > On 20 Dec, 2017, at 17:19, Matthias Andree wrote: > > Am 20.12.2017 um 06:40 schrieb Eugene Grosbein: >> On 20.12.2017 01:03, Matthias Andree wrote: >> >>> Dear Ted, Eugene, >> [skip] >> >> What happened with old good "Tools, not policy" thing? > > It's simpler than that, no policy involved. > > The tool had a hollow head, and broke after several years of banging it, > and the former tool maker told the public it's out of warranty (never > was in due to it being free) and not being fixed any more, and should be > scrapped. I'm a little unsettled by this discussion, because it is moving into territory with which we have very little precedent. And the precedent that it would establish is not wholly within our mandate. FreeBSD ports provides the best available versions of software to run on FreeBSD---we have traditionally been very conservative in deprecating software. The mere fact that there are better alternatives is not sufficient reason to take it away from people. When it ceases to work, or is intolerably dangerous, then it is incumbent upon us to act. You know far, far more about the intricacies of email than I do, Matthias, so please correct me if I am incorrect here, but I'm not aware of procmail being unsuitably dangerous for admins who make a conscious decision to use it. I'm not a fan of the message it would send: taking the port away from our users tells them that we don't trust their ability to decide what to do with their systems. I would far prefer that we educate our users about the alternatives, and provide a suitable warning for procmail, not censor it entirely. We can plaster the port with warnings and recommendations for people to switch, or set DEPRECATED without an EXPIRATION_DATE, but taking it away from people establishes a precedent that I wouldn't feel great about. Procmail was the standard for an incredibly long time, and there are undoubtedly many shops that rely upon it. # Adam -- Adam Weinberger adamw@adamw.org http://www.adamw.org