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Date:      Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:54:17 +0200
From:      Bernd Walter <ticso@cicely7.cicely.de>
To:        Dieter <freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com>
Cc:        freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: alpha/127248: System crashes when many (7) serial port terminals (vt320-vt510) connected to the server via com to usb adapter and 2-usb hubs.
Message-ID:  <20080925125417.GQ93308@cicely7.cicely.de>
In-Reply-To: <200809201655.QAA10313@sopwith.solgatos.com>
References:  <20080920125414.GS93308@cicely7.cicely.de> <200809201655.QAA10313@sopwith.solgatos.com>

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On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 09:55:59AM +0100, Dieter wrote:
> [ -hardware@ list added to existing -alpha@ thread as this
> doesn't seem to be alpha specific ]
> 
> > This is because USB is absolutely crap for this purpose.
> > RS232 terminals, especially with long cables, can produce several kind
> > of spikes and ground loops, which USB is very very sensitive about.
> 
> Many things about USB are crap (thanks, inthell), but if a USB to RS-232
> bridge cannot handle normal spikes and ground loops, I'd blame the
> bridge, not USB itself.  If the problem is spikes and ground loops
> there is probably some RS-232 filter/isolator available to clean them
> up.  There could be a bug in the bridge which needs a software workaround.
> In any case the system shouldn't crash.
> 
> Are there specific make&model USB to RS-232 bridges that people
> have had good luck with?

USB can't handle spikes and ground loops.
As said: use isolated devices, so you don't have the loops and spikes.
You can blame the device for not being isolated, but you expect every
device to provide expensive workaround for a design failure.
USB is designed for cheap stuff - that's all about it.

Yes - the system shouldn't crash, but don't expect it ever being fixed
for FreeBSD-alpha.

> > My advise is to use a completely other technology to connect the terminals.
> > A galvanic isolated USB device might work, but there are lot of PCI and
> > Ethernet devices on the market which are more solid by design than USB.
> 
> The problem with PCI is the limited number of slots.  :-(

Well - not realy with server class alphas...

> Ethernet could be a good solution for some applications, if you
> can get the software to deal with it.  NFS is crap, *real* distributed
> file systems handled devices transparently.  (thanks, Sun)

This is a different topic.
For RS232 Ethernet is quite reasonable.

> Does anyone make firewire to RS-232 bridges?

Or stay with the old DEC devices - they are rock solid even after all
those years.

-- 
B.Walter <bernd@bwct.de> http://www.bwct.de
Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.



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