From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 06:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03371 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:43:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pds.internal.enteract.com (pds.internal.enteract.com [207.229.169.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03366 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pds@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 18498 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Feb 1999 14:42:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 1999 14:42:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:42:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul D. Schmidt" X-Sender: pds@pds.internal.enteract.com To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Database program needed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am looking for a database program that works like M$ Access (so my wife can use the address book she made (I know it won't work in the same format, but I will re-make the database in the new program). I tried getting her to use MySQL, but she needs a GUI database program, and I don't have tome to write one myself :-P Thanks for the help, Paul -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Paul D. Schmidt Microsoft slogan for '99: "This is where you are going today." -Anonymous =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 10:32:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22860 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from inet.chip-web.com (c1003518-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.1.82.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA22855 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ludwigp@bigfoot.com) Received: (qmail 11444 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1999 18:32:44 -0000 Received: from speedy.chip-web.com (HELO speedy) (172.16.1.1) by inet.chip-web.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 1999 18:32:44 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990214102920.00b72320@mail-r> X-Sender: ludwigp2@mail-r X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:32:42 -0800 To: "Paul D. Schmidt" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ludwig Pummer Subject: Re: Database program needed In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:42 AM 2/14/99 , Paul D. Schmidt wrote: >I am looking for a database program that works like M$ Access (so my wife >can use the address book she made (I know it won't work in the same >format, but I will re-make the database in the new program). > >I tried getting her to use MySQL, but she needs a GUI database program, >and I don't have tome to write one myself :-P > >Thanks for the help, >Paul I set up MySQL + PHP3 + Apache in under a week (I had previous experience with Apache, but not the other two). If you visit www.mysql.com, there are some links to a sample address book(!)/phone log MySQL & PHP3 program. Her address book becomes accessible from a web browser. Is that GUI enough? --Ludwig Pummer ( ludwigp@bigfoot.com ) ICQ UIN: 692441 ( ludwigp@email.com ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 13:04:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08672 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isis.dynip.com ([139.141.220.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08663 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@isis.dynip.com) From: root@isis.dynip.com Received: (from root@localhost) by isis.dynip.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id AAA08919 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:03:15 +0300 (AST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:03:15 +0300 (AST) Reply-To: root@isis.dynip.com Subject: Very Strange Question To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was compiled into an exceutable ? More strange questions to come ....... -- - MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. ---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 13:36:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12720 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12715 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from bb-b1-11a (ppp121.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.121]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06177; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:36:17 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: root@isis.dynip.com cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question In-Reply-To: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under > dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was > compiled into an exceutable ? Most likely it was made in machine language or assembler in the first place so it didn't need to be compiled. Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 14:24:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17919 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17909 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-fll-160.laker.net [205.245.75.60]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.0-LAKERNET-We-do-not-relay) with SMTP id RAA05460; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:24:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199902142224.RAA05460@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "root@isis.dynip.com" Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:09:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Very Strange Question Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:03:15 +0300 (AST), root@isis.dynip.com wrote: >Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or >the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a >compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a >program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under >dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was >compiled into an exceutable ? Actually, this may be outside of the charter, since it's not freebsd related... In the beginning... ...there were no compilers or assemblers. There were "maintenance" panels consisting of pushbutton switches with neon lamps, allowing you to manually set/clear bits in a register. Entering a machine language program into main memory via this maintenance panel is referred to as "fat-fingering in" a program. Of course, this was never intended to be a viable way to enter programs, so punch cards were invented, and paper tapes (mylar tape was later and much superior to paper). Soon, a bare-bones assembler would be written in machine language. Much later would come compilers. I'd be willing to bet, the first compiler was Fortran. Later, Grace Hopper and associates would invent COBOL. Hope this whets your appetite... Steve Friedrich Viva la FreeBSD!! Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 17:57:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12233 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12228 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from goodall2.u.washington.edu (durang@goodall2.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.168]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id RAA14980; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:57:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id RAA49146; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:57:28 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:57:27 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: root@isis.dynip.com cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question In-Reply-To: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or > the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a > compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a > program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under > dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was > compiled into an exceutable ? O.K. Well let me begin by saying "I don't know". But you could just as easily ask about other things, like, "If a steel mill has steel equipment in it, where did the steel for the first steel mill come from?" I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a bunch of switches and lights on it. You had to use the switches to put in your program byte-by-byte, and if you screwed up, you had to start all over. These bytes I can only assume were in machine language - binaries. So what probably happened was, some guy wrote a compiler in machine language to compile the code of some slightly more sophisticated and intelligable language, and then someone used that language to write a compiler for yet another higher-level language, and so on, until one day Dennis wrote a C compiler and C was born. I don't know what language the first C compiler was written in. I sure hope it wasn't machine language, though. I guess the real meat in my answer is that the first compiler didn't need to be compiled, because it was written in a binary form that the computer could use without compilation or interpretation. Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 18:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15151 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:20:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isis.dynip.com ([139.141.220.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15137 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:20:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@isis.dynip.com) From: root@isis.dynip.com Received: (from root@localhost) by isis.dynip.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id FAA04186; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:18:44 +0300 (AST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <199902150218.FAA04186@isis.dynip.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:18:44 +0300 (AST) Reply-To: root@isis.dynip.com Subject: Re: Very Strange Question To: durang@u.washington.edu cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 14 Feb, K. Marsh wrote: > O.K. Well let me begin by saying "I don't know". I think you under estimate your knowledge, lloking at your answer. > I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a > bunch of switches and lights on it. Very interesting, which year was that. >You had to use the switches to put in > your program byte-by-byte, and if you screwed up, you had to start all > over. These bytes I can only assume were in machine language - binaries. The computer "BITES" you ask to speak. > So what probably happened was, some guy wrote a compiler in machine > language to compile the code of some slightly more sophisticated and > intelligable language Ya, but who, when, which machine architecture, what was his motivations and targets, and above all which was the FIRST HIGH LEVEL language, I mean right above machine language was first developed, is it ... MachineLanguage (binary bits 0 & 1) --> Assembly --> MacroAssembly --> Fortran --> COBOL --> ADDA --> BASIC --> C --> C++ --> JAVA What was the order, and the inventors, what made them invent that. can anyone see what I am aiming at ? I am looking in the History of computers, for the sake of the future of computers. > and then someone used that language to write a > compiler for yet another higher-level language, and so on, until one day > Dennis wrote a C compiler and C was born. I don't know what language the > first C compiler was written in. I sure hope it wasn't machine language, > though. So, what was the first application made in C. > > I guess the real meat in my answer is that the first compiler didn't need > to be compiled, because it was written in a binary form that the computer > could use without compilation or interpretation. You are probably very close to the correct answer, but when was the concept of compiling into binary format developed, and why the hell there are so many binary formats, does this indicate that none of them is effecient enough, and a new UNIVERSAL binary format is needed, the kind of binary that runs on any architecutre, or any OS. Finally I can't thank enough all the people who will share in clearing this topic. Bye for now. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 20:30:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28524 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:30:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chopin.seattleu.edu (chopin.seattleu.edu [206.81.198.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28518 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:30:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hodeleri@seattleu.edu) Received: from seattleu.edu ([172.17.41.90]) by chopin.seattleu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05043; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:30:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C7A2F6.841770E2@seattleu.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:30:46 -0800 From: Eric Hodel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: root@isis.dynip.com CC: durang@u.washington.edu, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question References: <199902150218.FAA04186@isis.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org About all that other stuff, I don't know. I am only experienced with Java and Basic/QBasic, and have no idea where they started/branched/whatever. > You are probably very close to the correct answer, but when was the > concept of compiling into binary format developed, and why the hell > there are so many binary formats, does this indicate that none of them > is effecient enough, and a new UNIVERSAL binary format is needed, the > kind of binary that runs on any architecutre, or any OS. This is part of one of the goals of Java. It runs on a virtual machine (the Java VM) and the Java VM is written (in C for computers, I suppose) to interpret the Java class file (I heard it called byte code or something somewhere) into instruction the CPU can understand. The unfortunately, the extra layer of the VM to interpret the java class (byte code?) to actual CPU instructions slightly slows the execution of java applications. A solution to this is a native java CPU. I've heard of some being proposed, but can't recall where/when. Java is supposed to be able to run on everything from your PII to your clock radio, provided a VM has been written for it. (I really don't know much about the low level details, except generalities.) -- Eric Hodel hodeleri@seattleu.edu Where do you want to go today? http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 21:18:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03357 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from goodall1.u.washington.edu (goodall1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03352 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall1.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id VAA56424; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:45 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:18:45 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: root@isis.dynip.com cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question In-Reply-To: <199902150218.FAA04186@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > > I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a > > bunch of switches and lights on it. > Very interesting, which year was that. Don't know. Probably in the seventies. I was too young to care. I saw this machine on a PBS special about computing. You can probably rent the video in a good video store. > is it, > MachineLanguage (binary bits 0 & 1) --> Assembly --> MacroAssembly --> > Fortran --> COBOL --> ADDA --> BASIC --> C --> C++ --> JAVA I don't know. Maybe a PBS special will come out on programming languages, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Try your local library. > So, what was the first application made in C. I'll bet it was "hello world", but I don't know this either. > You are probably very close to the correct answer, but when was the > concept of compiling into binary format developed, and why the hell > there are so many binary formats, does this indicate that none of them > is effecient enough, and a new UNIVERSAL binary format is needed, the > kind of binary that runs on any architecutre, or any OS. Binaries formats are sort of a necessity given the assortment of platforms on which they run. Imagine if every device in the world was restricted to D-cell batteries. Your car would have about a hundred of them, and your watch would hurt your wrist. Even if you restrict discussion to desktop computers, every computer processor must have a specific binary format that will do the job in the most efficient way. To force them all to use one standard format is not good if their performance is compromised as a result. For the sake of standardizing, C is very portable and if source code is distributed instead of binary files, I think it's a good solution. Then anyone can make any hardware they want, and any OS that uses any binary. As long as they have a C compiler, they're fine. In the future when processors are so fast that it just doesn't matter anymore then maybe something more like JAVA will become the language of choice. Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 14 22:55:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13861 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:55:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13851 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@jgl.reno.nv.us) Received: from danco (rno-max1-50.gbis.net [207.228.60.114]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA00565; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:55:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001101be58af$f4e32300$723ce4cf@danco.home> From: "Dan O'Connor" To: "K. Marsh" , Cc: Subject: Re: Very Strange Question Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:53:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> > I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a >> > bunch of switches and lights on it. > >> Very interesting, which year was that. > >Don't know. Probably in the seventies. I was too young to care. I saw >this machine on a PBS special about computing. You can probably rent the >video in a good video store. You're referring to the Altair 8800, which appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics in January 1975. The Altair featured an Intel 8080 processor, a whopping 256 bytes of RAM and cost $297 ($395 with a case). The inventor, Ed Roberts, is the man who coined the phrase "personal computer." --Dan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 07:01:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14528 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14522 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-fll-159.laker.net [205.245.75.59]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.0-LAKERNET-We-do-not-relay) with SMTP id KAA26197; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:00:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199902151500.KAA26197@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "root@isis.dynip.com" Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Very Strange Question Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 01:30:41 +0300 (AST), root@isis.dynip.com wrote: >Please, if you have any URLs where I can locate such developmental >history of computer programming, I am very interested. I don't have URLs, but I have a really old encyclopedia that you may find in the library or bookstore. Here's the info on it I found using Amazon.com's search engine. Their engine could find other titles as well. I've cc'd -newbies because many of you may find this book really enlightening... Encyclopedia of Computer Science by Anthony Ralston (Editor), Edwin D. Reilly (Editor) Our Price: $140.00 Availability: This title usually ships within 2-3 days. Hardcover - 1548 pages 3rd edition (January 1993) International Thomson Publishing; ISBN: 1850328005 ; Dimensions (in inches): 2.51 x 11.32 x 8.92 Amazon.com Sales Rank: 173,722 Avg. Customer Review: Number of Reviews: 2 Write an online review and share your thoughts with other readers! Reviews Synopsis The reference of choice for everyone who works with computers, this manual has long been the only single-source volume reference to cover the entire field of computer science. The new edition will maintain this source as the #1 authority in the field, by providing valuable data on the most current computing systems, operating systems, and distributed computing environments. About 70 percent of the information has been revised--with nearly 175 completely new entries. The encyclopedia's renowned editorial board has made sure this databank encompasses everything from the history of electronic computing to the most current research in computer technology. 12-page color insert. Customer Comments Average Customer Review: Number of Reviews: 2 A reader from Silicon Valley, CA , September 28, 1998 Excellent Reference Material Have been using this for the past 7 years before going to Stanford and still now. A reader from Lansdale, PA , July 20, 1998 A delicious "Brittanica" of computer science I have the 1983 Second Edition and it is, as I assume the pricey Third is,a reference of biblical proportions, a sort of Brittanica of computer science. Lucid, authoritative articles. But while I lust after the new Edition, the three figure price makes me too shy to make a pass. Pity. If you can afford it, buy it. Steve Friedrich Viva la FreeBSD!! Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 07:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16320 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:14:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16313 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-fll-188.laker.net [205.245.75.88]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.0-LAKERNET-We-do-not-relay) with SMTP id KAA26607; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:13:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199902151513.KAA26607@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "Dan O'Connor" , "K. Marsh" , "root@isis.dynip.com" Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Very Strange Question Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:53:45 -0800, Dan O'Connor wrote: >You're referring to the Altair 8800, which appeared on the cover of Popular >Electronics in January 1975. The Altair featured an Intel 8080 processor, a >whopping 256 bytes of RAM and cost $297 ($395 with a case). The inventor, Ed >Roberts, is the man who coined the phrase "personal computer." Very good answer. But let me point out to everyone that this "microcomputer" came VERY late in the game. If you want to find out about the very FIRST digital computer, research Ekert and Mauchley (I may have misspelt Mauchley), or research ENIAC or Sperry-Rand. This first digital computer was used to calculate missle trajectories and was comprised of VACUUM TUBES !! It was however, preceded by analog computers. Necessity is the mother of invention, and if you discover what a pain in the ass analog computers were, you'll understand why digital techniques were sought... If you find a description of ENIAC, you'll see it took a very large room to house and was less powerful than most Intel products. Steve Friedrich Viva la FreeBSD!! Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 07:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17014 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:19:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17008 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:19:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sven@chain.demon.nl) Received: from [195.173.248.152] (helo=chain.loc) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10CPnr-0000oj-00; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:19:19 +0000 Received: from chain.demon.nl (spitfire.chain.loc [192.168.0.2]) by chain.loc (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00433; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sven@chain.demon.nl) Message-ID: <36C83B11.FC3AFE88@chain.demon.nl> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:19:45 +0100 From: Sven Hazejager Organization: CHAIN Software Technology B.V. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,nl,nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 To: root@isis.dynip.com CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question References: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The very first compiler was written in assembly code, and it was used to compile the second compiler, which was written in the same language as it was meant to compile. This compiler was then used as the standard compiler. Regards, Sven Hazejager root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or > the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a > compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a > program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under > dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was > compiled into an exceutable ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 08:34:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27104 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:34:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from loki.csc.ncsu.edu (loki.csc.ncsu.edu [152.1.75.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27094 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:34:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from twu2@eos.ncsu.edu) From: twu2@eos.ncsu.edu Received: (from twu2@localhost) by loki.csc.ncsu.edu (8.8.4/EC02Jan97) id LAA25251 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:34:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902151634.LAA25251@loki.csc.ncsu.edu> Subject: core dump To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:34:35 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24/POP] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I ran xgraph with two identical data sets in two boxes. One is Pentium 233-MMX with Freebsd 2.2.5 and the other is Pentium-II with Freebsd 2.2.8. Everything went well under Pentium 233-MMX but an error message of "Floating Point exception (core dump)" came out on the Pentium-II box. Is it caused by the FreeBsd or CPU's problem? How to solve it? Any help is appreciated. Regards, Tsungli Wu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 10:39:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11937 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:39:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hcol.humberc.on.ca (hcol.humberc.on.ca [142.214.101.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA11931 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scqdaf@globalserve.net) X-ROUTED: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:52 -0500 Received: from [142.214.68.137] [142.214.68.137] by hcol.humberc.on.ca with smtp id $T108102 ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:38 -0500 X-Sender: scqdaf@mail.globalserve.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:47 -0500 To: FreeBSD-Newbies From: Dennis Favro Subject: Upgrade my FreeBSD System (CTM/CVS/stand-sysinstall Upgrade) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What's the best method for updating my system if I have a 33.6k dial-up connection with unlimited connect time? CTM? CVS? /stand/sysinstall's Upgrade facility? Anyone have any resources for low-brows like me? (The Complete FreeBSD and the website shoot just above my head on this issue) --Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 14:44:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17922 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17917 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18188; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:52:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990216095209.B18116@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:52:09 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: Steve Friedrich Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question Mail-Followup-To: Steve Friedrich , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <199902151513.KAA26607@laker.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199902151513.KAA26607@laker.net>; from Steve Friedrich on Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:13:13AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:13:13AM -0500, Steve Friedrich wrote: > On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:53:45 -0800, Dan O'Connor wrote: > > >You're referring to the Altair 8800, which appeared on the cover of Popular > >Electronics in January 1975. The Altair featured an Intel 8080 processor, a > >whopping 256 bytes of RAM and cost $297 ($395 with a case). The inventor, Ed > >Roberts, is the man who coined the phrase "personal computer." > > Very good answer. But let me point out to everyone that this > "microcomputer" came VERY late in the game. If you want to find out > about the very FIRST digital computer, research Ekert and Mauchley (I > may have misspelt Mauchley), or research ENIAC or Sperry-Rand. This > first digital computer was used to calculate missle trajectories and > was comprised of VACUUM TUBES !! It was however, preceded by analog > computers. Necessity is the mother of invention, and if you discover > what a pain in the ass analog computers were, you'll understand why > digital techniques were sought... > > If you find a description of ENIAC, you'll see it took a very large > room to house and was less powerful than most Intel products. this is all very well and good from an amreican point of view, but, the truth is that in 1929ish or 1933ish the german scisntists had a working 'digital' computer that the allies subsequently stole and declared to the world. 'look at what we did'. all the relevent information is in teh archives .. but thiese ar books that people will have to go to libraries and request and then read .. sort of grin. regards jonathan, offering another view of what really happened. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 22:14:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08349 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (bonjour.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08344 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-1-85.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.42.94]) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16736; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:11:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C90BC5.9A727F4F@confusion.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:10:13 -0500 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: root@isis.dynip.com CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question References: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I assume it was written in binary directly, which must have been a real pain in the ass, esp since it can't be ported from what processor to another at all. I'm not really sure how one enters such a program into a system but I guess the bios loads it on bootup if its in the bootsector since that's what the bios is for? root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or > the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a > compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a > program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under > dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was > compiled into an exceutable ? > > More strange questions to come ....... > > -- > - MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. > ---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) > Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( > Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ > Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ > Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | > Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | > Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ > Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) > pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 15 22:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08820 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (bonjour.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08804 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-1-85.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.42.94]) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17457; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:14:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C90CA1.4FCACFC7@confusion.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:13:53 -0500 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: root@isis.dynip.com CC: durang@u.washington.edu, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question References: <199902150218.FAA04186@isis.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to answer one part I'm pretty sure the first C program written was a better C compiler, ie the bootstrap method, such that most c compilers are in c root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > On 14 Feb, K. Marsh wrote: > > O.K. Well let me begin by saying "I don't know". > > I think you under estimate your knowledge, lloking at your answer. > > > I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a > > bunch of switches and lights on it. > > Very interesting, which year was that. > > >You had to use the switches to put in > > your program byte-by-byte, and if you screwed up, you had to start all > > over. These bytes I can only assume were in machine language - binaries. > > The computer "BITES" you ask to speak. > > > So what probably happened was, some guy wrote a compiler in machine > > language to compile the code of some slightly more sophisticated and > > intelligable language > > Ya, but who, when, which machine architecture, what was his motivations > and targets, and above all which was the FIRST HIGH LEVEL language, I > mean right above machine language was first developed, is it ... > > MachineLanguage (binary bits 0 & 1) --> Assembly --> MacroAssembly --> > Fortran --> COBOL --> ADDA --> BASIC --> C --> C++ --> JAVA > > What was the order, and the inventors, what made them invent that. > can anyone see what I am aiming at ? > > I am looking in the History of computers, for the sake of the future of > computers. > > > and then someone used that language to write a > > compiler for yet another higher-level language, and so on, until one day > > > Dennis wrote a C compiler and C was born. I don't know what language the > > first C compiler was written in. I sure hope it wasn't machine language, > > though. > > So, what was the first application made in C. > > > > > I guess the real meat in my answer is that the first compiler didn't need > > to be compiled, because it was written in a binary form that the computer > > could use without compilation or interpretation. > > You are probably very close to the correct answer, but when was the > concept of compiling into binary format developed, and why the hell > there are so many binary formats, does this indicate that none of them > is effecient enough, and a new UNIVERSAL binary format is needed, the > kind of binary that runs on any architecutre, or any OS. > > Finally I can't thank enough all the people who will share in > clearing this topic. > > Bye for now. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 16 03:35:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05825 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ambassador.automatedemblem.com (ip68.xtczone.com [207.180.25.68] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05820 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:35:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ebrastow@automatedemblem.com) Received: by ip68.xtczone.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <144NT5J8>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:33:40 -0500 Message-ID: <500E74157A46D211A87F006097295AFB0484A0@ip68.xtczone.com> From: Evan Brastow To: "'root@isis.dynip.com'" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Very Strange Question Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:33:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For these answers, you may want to pick up a book I've found very informative. It's called The Philosophical Programmer, and pages 89-92 or so detail the process and timeline of the first compiler. The book is written by Daniel Kohanski, published by St. Martin's Press. Thanks, Evan A. Brastow Director of Information Technology Automated Emblem Supplies, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: root@isis.dynip.com [mailto:root@isis.dynip.com] Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 9:19 PM To: durang@u.washington.edu Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Strange Question On 14 Feb, K. Marsh wrote: > O.K. Well let me begin by saying "I don't know". I think you under estimate your knowledge, lloking at your answer. > I do know that the first home PC had no keyboard or monitor, but had a > bunch of switches and lights on it. Very interesting, which year was that. >You had to use the switches to put in > your program byte-by-byte, and if you screwed up, you had to start all > over. These bytes I can only assume were in machine language - binaries. The computer "BITES" you ask to speak. > So what probably happened was, some guy wrote a compiler in machine > language to compile the code of some slightly more sophisticated and > intelligable language Ya, but who, when, which machine architecture, what was his motivations and targets, and above all which was the FIRST HIGH LEVEL language, I mean right above machine language was first developed, is it ... MachineLanguage (binary bits 0 & 1) --> Assembly --> MacroAssembly --> Fortran --> COBOL --> ADDA --> BASIC --> C --> C++ --> JAVA What was the order, and the inventors, what made them invent that. can anyone see what I am aiming at ? I am looking in the History of computers, for the sake of the future of computers. > and then someone used that language to write a > compiler for yet another higher-level language, and so on, until one day > Dennis wrote a C compiler and C was born. I don't know what language the > first C compiler was written in. I sure hope it wasn't machine language, > though. So, what was the first application made in C. > > I guess the real meat in my answer is that the first compiler didn't need > to be compiled, because it was written in a binary form that the computer > could use without compilation or interpretation. You are probably very close to the correct answer, but when was the concept of compiling into binary format developed, and why the hell there are so many binary formats, does this indicate that none of them is effecient enough, and a new UNIVERSAL binary format is needed, the kind of binary that runs on any architecutre, or any OS. Finally I can't thank enough all the people who will share in clearing this topic. Bye for now. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 16 06:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22116 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:21:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22111 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:21:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01153; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:22:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199902161422.JAA01153@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: Very Strange Question In-Reply-To: <199902142103.AAA08919@isis.dynip.com> from "root@isis.dynip.com" at "Feb 15, 99 00:03:15 am" To: root@isis.dynip.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:22:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org root@isis.dynip.com wrote, > Ok, we all know that famous debate about who came first, the chicken or > the egg, on a similar scale, now you compile any c program with a > compiler, right , like cc, so as to say, cc compiler itself is a > program, so how it was first compiled, something like MS debug under > dos, or what. I mean the FIRST ever compiler generated, how it was > compiled into an exceutable ? >From Kernighan and Ritchie, _The C Programming Language_, p. xi, "C was originally designed for and implemented on the UNIX operating system on the DEC PCP-11, by Dennis Ritchie. The operating system, the C compiler, and essentially all UNIX application programs... are written in C." -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 16 19:58:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (unknown [207.46.181.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F47211562 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:54:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chr_lor@email.msn.com) Received: from chrisyor - 153.35.4.208 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:54:37 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be5a28$fc8c5700$d0042399@chrisyor> From: "Christopher" To: Subject: i am time limited but would like to help on an intermitent basis on whatever. Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:52:36 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org would love to help but can't guarantee any certain amount of time to set aside for it but if you have some long term pooled project i would love to help thanks chris york To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 16 22: 1:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C89C10EE2 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA25170; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:23 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990217170117.03714@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:17 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Christopher Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i am time limited but would like to help on an intermitent basis on whatever. References: <000101be5a28$fc8c5700$d0042399@chrisyor> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <000101be5a28$fc8c5700$d0042399@chrisyor>; from Christopher on Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:52:36PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:52:36PM -0600, Christopher wrote: > would love to help but can't guarantee any certain amount of time to > set aside for it but if you have some long term pooled project i > would love to help Good on you, Chris! It's important that you pick something you enjoy doing, especially if your time is short. If you don't know much about FreeBSD there's still lots of ways to help. Here's a few ideas: Join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. All you have to do is subscribe to the freebsd-doc mailing list, which is very low volume. Offer your services to review documentation that others write. Look over the Handbook and FAQ and see if there's anything missing or that doesn't make sense to you. Have a go at writing little bits to submit, then get feedback from the freebsd-doc group. If you're a newbie, your ideas about documentation are valuable, even if you can't provide documentation yourself. Hang around here and help other newbies find the documentation or mailing lists that they need, or just make them feel welcome. Subscribe to freebsd-questions and help out there if there are areas where you have knowledge to share. A lot of newbies rely on freebsd-questions when they get stuck, and sometimes it takes another newbie to explain it just right. Tell your friends about FreeBSD, give them your old CDs so they can try it out, join a users group if there's one nearby. Look out for typos as you read through the man pages. A lot of this has been done over the last few months, but it's amazing how those little glitches can hide unseen until a fresh pair of eyes comes along. Learn to use diff and send-pr to make and submit quick minor corrections. Write an article for Daemon News or the FreeBSD ezine or a good FreeBSD article for any on line or hard copy publication. Subscribe to freebsd-advocacy and share ideas. Hang around on the IRC channel #freebsd on undernet. There's always people there to help or be helped by or just to enjoy each other's company. Use freebsd-newbies to discuss other ways that you and others can help. A lot of people have discussed ideas here in the past, and while some have created a lot of enjoyable noise and not ammounted to much, others have been very successful. I think it's important that we be free to "brainstorm" without too much scrutiny or commitment because it can take a bit of dislodging to get the very best ideas flowing and enthuse others. When you do something new or exciting like setting up your first network, installing FreeBSD for a friend, or learning how to reboot properly for the first time, tell us about your ups and downs, gloat about your victory. It's always nice to discover that someone else out there has had similar adventures and here we can relate to even the most minor victory on a social level. On the other hand, if you want to write down what you did and how you did it, that would be better as a piece for the documentation project (above) or an ezine article (also above) or both. If you're busy, a lot of the above ideas involve thinking that can be done in odd moments like when waiting for a bus or during TV commercials. Another way you can help is to give us more ideas of how we can help :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 17 6:41:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from lance.castle.net (lance.castle.net [199.173.5.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EFE411054 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:41:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gkaplan@castle.net) Received: (qmail 17582 invoked from network); 17 Feb 1999 14:39:08 -0000 Received: from parsip-net-42.intac.com (HELO castle.net) (199.173.8.53) by lance.castle.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 14:39:08 -0000 Message-ID: <36CAD42F.FA07BF93@castle.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:37:35 -0500 From: gkaplan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: a modest proposal References: <000101be5a28$fc8c5700$d0042399@chrisyor> <19990217170117.03714@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org When someone subscribes to a mail list the first response should include boiler plate on how for construct a message. I know there is a discussion how to get results for you questions at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html , and the information there was very instructive for me. Still, something that I feel would be helpful to users, particularly new user, would be a non-exclusive list of key words to be used as a prefix to the subject line of a message. The advantage of this would be to facilitate a search of archived messages. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 17 15:20:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C8310E80 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us) Received: from luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02143; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:13:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CADE98.77A954CE@luciamar.k12.ca.us> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:22:00 +0000 From: David Knapp Organization: LMUSD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Bryant Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cheap Bytes? References: <3.0.5.32.19990213065838.007becc0@mindinfo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You may want to go here first: http://visar.csustan.edu/giveaway.html If that doesn't help then email me back. dbk Rob Bryant wrote: > > Has anyone ever bought the "unofficial" FreeBSD CD from Cheap Bytes? > > In my usual chicken-hearted, dilletante-ish way, I am thinking of buying it > to try on FreeBSD for size... then moving up to the official FreeBSD > release if it's a nice fit. > > But there may be issues I don't know about, especially considering that I > don't know much. Does anyone have an opinion about Cheap Bytes? > > // rob > > -- > This is my .sig; less is more. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- David Knapp 805 473-4353 PC Network Specialist dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us LMUSD "Everyone knew her as Nancy" F.T. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 17 16:48:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gamma.aei.ca (unknown [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9401129D for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (ppp-110-105.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.110.105]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01842; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:47:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CB62CE.5381D85D@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:46:06 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: fr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gkaplan Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a modest proposal References: <000101be5a28$fc8c5700$d0042399@chrisyor> <19990217170117.03714@welearn.com.au> <36CAD42F.FA07BF93@castle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gkaplan wrote: > > When someone subscribes to a mail list the first response should include > boiler plate on how for construct a message. I know there is a discussion > how to get results for you questions at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html > , and the information there was very instructive for me. Still, something > that I feel would be helpful to users, particularly new user, would be a > non-exclusive list of key words to be used as a prefix to the subject line > of a message. The advantage of this would be to facilitate a search of > archived messages. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message See http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/FAQ/how-to-ask-en.html And send me some comments :-) -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][French piss me off - Cartman, South Park] [The FreeBSD User Guide][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/freebsd/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 18 7:22:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from lance.castle.net (lance.castle.net [199.173.5.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3062E115B5 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gkaplan@castle.net) Received: (qmail 2470 invoked from network); 18 Feb 1999 15:19:54 -0000 Received: from parsip-usr-13.intac.com (HELO castle.net) (199.173.8.82) by lance.castle.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 1999 15:19:54 -0000 Message-ID: <36CC2F3E.D4E1F4B9@castle.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:18:22 -0500 From: gkaplan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre Cc: freebsd-newbies Subject: Re: a modest proposal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The page you refer to below (how-to-ask-en) seems very sensible. sect 4.14 html in an e-mail - I guess that you mean that a designer message is waste of time; but that doesn't apply to url's ? sect 4.15 I am not sure, never, may be too strong a word. ( unless it is a question of incompatibility between browsers ) >gkaplan wrote: >> >> When someone subscribes to a mail list the first response should include >> boiler plate on how for construct a message. I know there is a discussion >> how to get results for you questions at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html >> , and the information there was very instructive for me. Still, something >> that I feel would be helpful to users, particularly new user, would be a >> non-exclusive list of key words to be used as a prefix to the subject line >> of a message. The advantage of this would be to facilitate a search of >> archived messages. >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >See http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/FAQ/how-to-ask-en.html >And send me some comments :-) >-- >[Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][French piss me off - Cartman, South Park] >[The FreeBSD User Guide][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/freebsd/] >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 18 8: 2:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hal6000.thp.Uni-Duisburg.DE (hal6000.uni-duisburg.de [134.91.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C033B115C6 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ralf@thp.Uni-Duisburg.DE) Received: from localhost (ralf@localhost) by hal6000.thp.Uni-Duisburg.DE (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA108726; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:58:46 +0100 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:58:45 +0100 (MEZ) From: Ralf Meyer To: chr_lor@email.msn.com, sue@welearn.com.au Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i am time limited but would like to help on an intermitent basis on whatever. In-Reply-To: <19990217170117.03714@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I just want to thank Christopher and Sue for their postings. Christopher, you have written almost exactly the message I would have written myself in a couple of days. Sue, you have kindly given a very complete answer. At the moment I'm still setting up my system which consists of a rather old 33 MHz '386 and a 120 MHz Pentium connected via ethernet. While I have been using Unix-like workstations for a long time, setting up a network is a new experience to me. Therefore, i suppose it will take some days more until all subsystems are working. After completing the installation phase I will see what I can do best in order to support the FreeBSD project. Regards Ralf On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:52:36PM -0600, Christopher wrote: > > would love to help but can't guarantee any certain amount of time to > > set aside for it but if you have some long term pooled project i > > would love to help > > Good on you, Chris! It's important that you pick something you enjoy > doing, especially if your time is short. If you don't know much about > FreeBSD there's still lots of ways to help. Here's a few ideas: > > Join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. All you have to do is subscribe > to the freebsd-doc mailing list, which is very low volume. Offer your > services to review documentation that others write. Look over the > Handbook and FAQ and see if there's anything missing or that doesn't > make sense to you. Have a go at writing little bits to submit, then get > feedback from the freebsd-doc group. If you're a newbie, your ideas > about documentation are valuable, even if you can't provide > documentation yourself. > > Hang around here and help other newbies find the documentation or > mailing lists that they need, or just make them feel welcome. > > Subscribe to freebsd-questions and help out there if there are areas > where you have knowledge to share. A lot of newbies rely on > freebsd-questions when they get stuck, and sometimes it takes another > newbie to explain it just right. > > Tell your friends about FreeBSD, give them your old CDs so they can try > it out, join a users group if there's one nearby. > > Look out for typos as you read through the man pages. A lot of this has > been done over the last few months, but it's amazing how those little > glitches can hide unseen until a fresh pair of eyes comes along. > Learn to use diff and send-pr to make and submit quick minor > corrections. > > Write an article for Daemon News or the FreeBSD ezine or a good FreeBSD > article for any on line or hard copy publication. > > Subscribe to freebsd-advocacy and share ideas. > > Hang around on the IRC channel #freebsd on undernet. There's always > people there to help or be helped by or just to enjoy each other's > company. > > Use freebsd-newbies to discuss other ways that you and others can help. > A lot of people have discussed ideas here in the past, and while some > have created a lot of enjoyable noise and not ammounted to much, others > have been very successful. I think it's important that we be free to > "brainstorm" without too much scrutiny or commitment because it can > take a bit of dislodging to get the very best ideas flowing and enthuse > others. > > When you do something new or exciting like setting up your first > network, installing FreeBSD for a friend, or learning how to reboot > properly for the first time, tell us about your ups and downs, gloat > about your victory. It's always nice to discover that someone else out > there has had similar adventures and here we can relate to even the > most minor victory on a social level. On the other hand, if you want to > write down what you did and how you did it, that would be better as a > piece for the documentation project (above) or an ezine article (also > above) or both. > > If you're busy, a lot of the above ideas involve thinking that can be > done in odd moments like when waiting for a bus or during TV > commercials. > > Another way you can help is to give us more ideas of how we can help :-) > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 18 14:24:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.manhattanprojects.com (host-024.manhattanprojects.com [207.181.119.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C4011933 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mbernard@manhattanprojects.com) Received: from manhattanprojects.com ([10.0.0.253]) by smtp.manhattanprojects.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26890 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:18:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mbernard@manhattanprojects.com) Message-ID: <36CC930A.FD806C07@manhattanprojects.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:24:10 -0500 From: Michael Bernardo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: How to install a network printer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please help me install a network printer. The printer is an HP Laserjet 4000. I want to be able to print more than just text. Any help would be appreciated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 5:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from isis.dynip.com (unknown [139.141.220.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4747E114C9 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@isis.dynip.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by isis.dynip.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA44457 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:10:06 +0300 (AST) (envelope-from root) Message-Id: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:09:50 +0300 (AST) From: root@isis.dynip.com Reply-To: root@isis.dynip.com Subject: Very Common Question To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi there, Continuing the series of questiions, I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. Linux started , may be , some a year or so before FreeBSD, and has become very common, even the guys who don't know a shit about computers, when you tell them I am running unix at home, of course refering to your FreeBSD machine, they immediately tell you, Linux ?? I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, and very very gelous. I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, and Linux, why is linux more popular, why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, why the linux ports is few Gigabytes, why I am still pretty sure that FreeBSD is better. I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following Menu: Windows 95/98 Windows NT OS2 Machintosh Linux Is this list missing something. Why, despite the support of linux in FreeBSD down to the kernel level, you can expect the following response when you download any softwaare from menu item no. 5 from above menu (Linux for the dummy) -----> FreeBSD response ----> unknown elf, brand with elf if you try to brand, it can't brand. in short it is not runnable. (period) I am very sad, someone MUST answer these VERY VERY common questions, but NOT with conventional answers like: * if you are still asking which is better, you did not do your homework * Linux is unix-like, FreeBSD IS unix * Linux comes from 3 vendors, FreeBSD comes from one .ORG * Linux kernel is unix, while the resst is crap. * FreeBSD Network system is a great thing, and all ISPs are shifting to it. Please guys, some real, and in-depth answers. from a very FreeBSDish guy. thanks -- - MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. ---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 6:25:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBB811742 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09653; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:26:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199902191426.JAA09653@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> from "root@isis.dynip.com" at "Feb 19, 99 04:09:50 pm" To: root@isis.dynip.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:26:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Really in depth: root@isis.dynip.com wrote, > Linux started , may be , some a year or so before FreeBSD, and has > become very common, even the guys who don't know a shit about > computers, when you tell them I am running unix at home, of course > refering to your FreeBSD machine, they immediately tell you, Linux ?? > > I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux > people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, > and very very gelous. Any computer coming out of the manufacturer without a M$ OS on it is a Good Thing. Feeling sad, I do not understand. Jealous, I can. > I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, The 'FreeBSD and Linux' section of Greg Lehey's _The Complete FreeBSD_ is a start. > and Linux, why is linux more popular, You said it in your first line. Linux was first due mainly to some legal issues with AT&T. > why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have > support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, I do not know if a parallel port scanner is a 'simple' thing, but no one has written one. Device drivers for FreeBSD are generally written by the users. Someone with the know-how to make a driver for your scanner has either not had the time or inclination to make one. With Linux, with more users, it is more likely someone has been in such a position and made a driver. And now, Linux is getting to the point where manufacturers may write Linux drivers for their devices (which is good for FreeBSD; modifying a Linux driver for FreeBSD is typically a _lot_ easier than making one from scratch). > why the linux > ports is few Gigabytes, why I am still pretty sure that FreeBSD is > better. Again, simple, it has existed longer among more users. > I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for > extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following > Menu: > > Windows 95/98 > Windows NT > OS2 > Machintosh > Linux > > Is this list missing something. Yes. It's missing the source code which any decent package is delivered as. > -- > - MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. > ---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) > Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( > Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ > Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ > Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | > Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | > Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ > Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) > pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com You should put a 'Reply-To' line in your mail containing your 'static' address if that is where you prefer replies from this list go. I'm also trying to figure out your BUAG in the .sig. Q-bert standing at the base of some stairs, wearing stilts, and being attacked by huge, flying sperm? -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 7: 0:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com (unknown [207.219.2.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F57711719 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:00:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from INCISWNT-428 ([10.64.5.198]) by tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 1TY1L598; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:00:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990219100032.00912e60@spectre.honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@spectre.honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:00:32 -0500 To: root@isis.dynip.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: "M. Poulin" Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:09 PM 2/19/99 +0300, root@isis.dynip.com wrote: >Hi there, >Continuing the series of questiions, >I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. >Linux started , may be , some a year or so before FreeBSD, and has >become very common, even the guys who don't know a shit about >computers, when you tell them I am running unix at home, of course >refering to your FreeBSD machine, they immediately tell you, Linux ?? Marketing, my friend, marketing. The same reason that people assume you must have some flavour of windows on your computer - spread the word and before you know it you've got a household name. The biggest thing in favour of Linux is Red Hat software. They have been doing some serious promotion of their version of Linux, and this has opened them up to some terrific partnerships - Corel, IBM, HP... Keep in mind that Red Hat is a corporation, and their ultimate goal is to make a profit. They can only do this by promoting their products. So even though the Linux kernel is free, Red Hat stands to make a ton of money if they can get people buying their CD's, support, other products, etc. FreeBSD and the other *BSDs on the other hand, are not run by any corporation, therefore the ability to truly market the OS and get involved in big partnerships is quite limited. In the long run I belive this will be a good thing. The FreeBSD project will be allowed to evolve on its own, naturally, with no interference from shareholders, mergers etc. > >I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux >people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, >and very very gelous. > Why be jealous? You are using FreeBSD, and you can tell other people about how good it is. So what if the whole world doesn't know about it - to be honest I would not want it that way. >I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, and >Linux, why is linux more popular, why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have >support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, why the linux >ports is few Gigabytes, why I am still pretty sure that FreeBSD is >better. > Full detail? You would have to read up on the entire history of Unix, BSD Unix, FreeBSD, and Linux to get a good idea. In a nutshell, FreeBSD is a direct descendant of BSD Unix, which in turn is a direct descendant of the original AT&T Unix. Linux is a Unix-like clone OS that was developed independently by *one* guy: Linus Torvalds. As for why Linux is more popular, re-read my paragraph about marketing. Why doesn't FreeBSD have support for Parallel port scanners? I would have to say simply because the development team has had their hands full with other things and hasn't got around to it yet. There is a finite number of people working on the FreeBSD project, and the hardware support we do have is astounding when you think about it. I too am pretty sure that FreeBSD is better. It is faster, more stable, and more secure than Linux. But that doesn't mean that I don't like Linux or any other Unix. If Linux can get people to consider an alternative to M$ at home or work, then more power to them! And I have found that it is much easier to "convert" a Linux user to FreeBSD than it is to convert a M$ or MacOS or OS/2 user to FreeBSD. >I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for >extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following >Menu: > > Windows 95/98 > Windows NT > OS2 > Machintosh > Linux > >Is this list missing something. Yes and no. If it will run on Linux, it should run just as well (or better) on FreeBSD. > >Why, despite the support of linux in FreeBSD down to the kernel level, >you can expect the following response when you download any softwaare >from menu item no. 5 from above menu (Linux for the dummy) > > -----> FreeBSD response ----> unknown elf, brand with elf > if you try to brand, it can't brand. > in short it is not runnable. (period) > Do you have "linux_enable="YES" set in your /etc/rc.conf? >I am very sad, someone MUST answer these VERY VERY common questions, >but NOT with conventional answers like: > >* if you are still asking which is better, you did not do your homework >* Linux is unix-like, FreeBSD IS unix >* Linux comes from 3 vendors, FreeBSD comes from one .ORG >* Linux kernel is unix, while the resst is crap. >* FreeBSD Network system is a great thing, and all ISPs are shifting to > it. > >Please guys, some real, and in-depth answers. >from a very FreeBSDish guy. > I'll say it again - why be so competitive with Linux? Every time I hear that they have won another small battle in the war against Big Bill, I applaud them. FreeBSD is a better OS than Linux. So what if it's not more popular? If I based my computing decisions on popularity, I'd be running Windows at home. Instead, I use the most stable, reliable and flexible OS that I can, which turns out to be FreeBSD. But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 9:28:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E6C11803 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:28:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zen@buddhist.com) Received: from WhizKid (r30.bfm.org [208.18.213.126]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id MAA16969; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:27:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990219112625.008c5290@mail.bfm.org> X-Sender: Stanislav@mail.bfm.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:26:25 -0600 To: root@isis.dynip.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:09 19-02-1999 +0300, root@isis.dynip.com wrote: >I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. You're hearing about it because it is getting quite popular, especially among young people who tend to be more vociferous than those of us born earlier. There is nothing wrong with their talking about it. What surprised me more is that ZD Net is pushing Linux as an alternative to Windows, but they never talk about FreeBSD. Having seen one of the replies to your message suddenly made it clear as to why that is. ZD Net is run by the publishers of PC Magazine which has been known to give high ratings to their adertisers. Perhaps Red Hat advertises in PC Magazine? >I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux >people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, >and very very gelous. IBM is the company that taught Bill Gates his methods (which no doubt they have regretted many times over). If IBM is making deals with Linux, that means IBM expects to make money in the process. If they expected to make money with FreeBSD, they would be "making deals" with FreeBSD. It has nothing to do with technology. Nor does it imply that IBM thinks Linux is better than FreeBSD (even if they did, who cares?). >I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for >extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following >Menu: > > Windows 95/98 > Windows NT > OS2 > Machintosh > Linux Since most computers run Windows 95/98, most software is written for it. Part of it is economic reasons - you make more money catering to more people, part is that probably most programmers, too, have Windows 95/98 installed on their systems and simply know how to program for it. By the same token, more Unix programmers probably have Linux installed than FreeBSD, so they write software for what they have and are familiar with. If, for example, you visited my web site (or my ftp site), you would find that any Unix software available for downloads comes with full source code and precompiled binaries for FreeBSD. That's because I have FreeBSD, so naturally I compile the software on and for FreeBSD. That said, I suspect that most downloads of my Graphic Counter Language (my most downloaded software) comes from Linux users, simply because there are more of them. Does that bother me? Heck no! I just hope it compiles and links on their systems as well as it did on mine (it probably does because I have yet to receive email from someone saying it does not). Why do I suspect that? Because having mentioned it on FreeBSDRocks brought in a couple of visitors. Then I listed it on FreshMeat.net, a Linux software directory. The number of visitors quadrupled instantly. Yet, none of them complains than I only provide precompiled binaries for FreeBSD, and talk about FreeBSD on my web site, never even mentioning that Linux exists. Of course, unlike IBM, I am not expecting to make any financial profits from my software, so I chose my platform based on technological criteria, not economic ones. But guess what: I never heard of FreeBSD until I started my web site. My web host (pair Networks) uses FreeBSD to run their servers on, and, of course, they inform their customers about it. Had I chosen some other web hosting provider, I might still not even know that there is such a thing as FreeBSD. In that case I might have developed Graphic Counter Language to work under Windows, for all I know. Our choices are always limited by our knowledge. Microsoft makes sure the whole world knows about Windows. Linux users seem to have evangelization down to a science. It can work against them - I took a look at Linux about a year ago, and was turned off by a HOWTO that essentially said I'd have to treat "Mr. Tornvald" - or whatever his name is - as some kind of a deity. Proselytizing happens to be against my religion, so I tend to turn away from anything that is being proselytized, be it ActiveX or Linux. On the other hand, it seems to be working on many others: You can see ActiveX products advertized all over programmers' magazines despite it being extremely bad technology. And you see lots of people getting excited about Linux (despite it NOT being bad technology ). Clearly, technology has little to do with what gets people excited. Am I jealous? Absolutely not. I make my choices, and see no reason why I should not let others make theirs. Last but not least, it may all boil down to what people can afford. There are a number of fairly inexpensive books on Linux. As far as I know there is only one book about FreeBSD, and I have heard nothing but praise about it. Unfortunately, someone with my income simply cannot afford to buy it. I deal with it by asking questions where I can, and probably by not running the system to its full potential, but others may feel more comfortable just to stick with Linux (actually, come to think of it, I could probably get more out of Linux using all of its abilities than I am getting out of FreeBSD using just some of its capabilities, but I believe that in the long run I am better off with FreeBSD). I suppose what I am trying to say is that different strokes for different folks. Hey, more people drive a Chevy than a Cadillac, but I am sure that Cadillac users feel no jealousy. :-) (I drive a Chevy, by the way.) Adam --- Got a FreeBSD web site? Get GCL from http://www.whizkidtech.net/gcl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 9:30:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gamma.aei.ca (unknown [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8DB118FD for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:30:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (ppp-111-70.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.70]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28649; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:30:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CD9F6D.7DCD3010@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:29:17 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: fr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gkaplan Cc: freebsd-newbies Subject: Re: a modest proposal References: <36CC2F3E.D4E1F4B9@castle.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gkaplan wrote: > > The page you refer to below (how-to-ask-en) seems very sensible. > > sect 4.14 html in an e-mail - I guess that you mean that a designer > message is waste of time; but that doesn't apply to url's ? > sect 4.15 I am not sure, never, may be too strong a word. ( unless it is > a question of incompatibility between browsers ) ...snip... Note that all this apply _only_ for freebsd-questions, and that else, you can do whatever you want. 4.14: people who use HTML in their e-mail make it incompatible for mail-reader like mutt. To read HTML e-mails, Mutt need to start lynx... Most of the time, HTML mails are not wrapped to 72 lines. 4.15: don't attach files (ok, you can attach text files..) because your zip/whatever will be distributed to hundreds of peoples(on freebsd-questions), and this will consume bandwith. No? -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][French piss me off - Cartman, South Park] [The FreeBSD User Guide][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/freebsd/] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 9:33:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from server01.gw.total-web.net (server01.gw.total-web.net [209.186.12.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C611C11882 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bangpath@bellsouth.net) Received: from kagero (ip-149-116.gw.total-web.net [209.186.149.116]) by server01.gw.total-web.net (2.5 Build 2640 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA00313; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:31:28 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990219123628.0090eb80@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: bangpath@mail.atl.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:36:28 +0000 To: root@isis.dynip.com From: borehawg Subject: Re: Very Common Question Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From what I have read in _The Complete FreeBSD_, is that BSD and it's free variants were restricted for a long time by AT&T's lawsuit again Berkeley Software for source code copyright violations (feel free to correct me on any of this, btw). So for a long time, Linux and it's distributions were the only free Unices available. By the time FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and 4.4BSD Lite were available, Linux had a big time head start. Yes, it is frusterating to try and explain the differences between Linux and FreeBSD to someone who doesn't know any better. Our Network Admin at work (we are an NT network) still refers to me as "a big Linux guy" despite the fact that I explained to him that FreeBSD is my prefered free-Unix of choice. >I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux >people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, >and very very gelous. The reason that HP and IBM and others are porting the Linux kernel to their platforms is actually a simple matter. If you were a large corporation, would you rather port a kernel to your processor and still use all your proprietary utilities and software, or would you spend the money on porting the entire *BSD environment (including the utilities and software) to that same processor? Definately cheaper for them to port a mere kernel, use AIX's finger, grep, tar, etc with very little modification and let the GNU guys do what they want to with the new port separately. IBM can now release a Linux distro based on an Open Source kernel, and can still charge for their propietary utilities and tech support. >I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for >extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following >Menu: > > Windows 95/98 > Windows NT > OS2 > Machintosh > Linux > >Is this list missing something. Yeah, it's missing SCO Unix, which is still fairly more common than seeing Linux on the list :-) I still get annoyed when I buy a device of some sort that I know has a Linux or FreeBSD driver available, but I still get a floppy disk or CD that has drivers for OS/2, Windows, and SCO-Unix...but not Linux/*BSD. >I am very sad, someone MUST answer these VERY VERY common questions, >but NOT with conventional answers like: > >* if you are still asking which is better, you did not do your homework >* Linux is unix-like, FreeBSD IS unix >* Linux comes from 3 vendors, FreeBSD comes from one .ORG >* Linux kernel is unix, while the resst is crap. >* FreeBSD Network system is a great thing, and all ISPs are shifting to > it. > >Please guys, some real, and in-depth answers. >from a very FreeBSDish guy. Ultimately, it boils down to a matter of personal preference (I know you don't want to hear that). The only reason I first tried FreeBSD is that a friend of mine (who had nine Linux boxen at home) tried it and was extolling the virtues of FreeBSD the very next day. He still swears by it. A co-worker of mine (a Windows-drone...er...devotee...whom I had convinced to try FreeBSD) hated FreeBSD but is trying Red Hat Linux and loves it *sigh*. So, the best you can do is to spread the word and evangelize and let people try it for themselves. Hope that answers some of your questions. -------------------------------------- Andrew ---> bangpath@bellsouth.net -------------------------------------- C++? Java? Perl? To Hell with it!! AppleSoft Basic all the way!!! Dude! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 9:54:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from eyry.econ.iastate.edu (eyry.econ.iastate.edu [129.186.32.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CDF911820 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:54:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@eyry.econ.iastate.edu) Received: from eyry.econ.iastate.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eyry.econ.iastate.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA27091; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:58:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from unknown@eyry.econ.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199902191158.FAA27091@eyry.econ.iastate.edu> To: root@isis.dynip.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:09:50 +0300." <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:58:11 -0600 From: The Unknown User-ID (24155) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org an unconfigured system wrote, > Hi there, > Continuing the series of questiions, > I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. > I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux > people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, > and very very gelous. ^^^ careful, it's hard to move after you gelatinize, and you quiver whenever anyone pokes you :) But any gain for linux, or any non-window OS, is useful to FreeBSD. The biggest issue is the stranglehold . . . > I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, and > Linux, why is linux more popular, Three years ago, i went looking for what I thought was called netbsd. Turns out what I was really looking for was 386/BSD, which I'd figured would be finished. What I found was linux, and didn't find FreeBSD until later. But I think linux's biggest edge is the license. This is the third or fourth time I've installed FreeBSD, and maybe I can keep it this time. A few reasons I haven't been able to keep/use it in the past: 1) getting questions answered. I can't speak for other distributions, but for debian, it's usually a matter of hours on debian-user. I've never succeeded in getting a question answered on freebsd-newbies or freebsd-questions, and when i've subscribed in the past, i've generally noticed most other questions going unanswered. Sure, critical mass is part of it, but people need to get over the initial hump. 2) installation. a) You almost have to know what you're doing to get installed far enough to figure out what you're doing . . . when configuring from boot.flp (now with the 2d disk), it takes a couple of minutes to clear out the other drivers, and set the io address for my ne2000. This information isn't saved, and I have to do this *every* time. With 3.0 (i think it was 3.0), I could at least get this configuration menu back when I booted again, so I could set it again until I compiled a kernel. Yesterday I never succeeded in getting it back. b) repetition. As near as I can tell, miss one source package in initial install, and it wants to install them all again. I can't figure out how to go from a minimal to more. And this morning, to get the rest of the security sources, I end up with bin, man, etc. all downloading again. And unless I chose the ports collection (again), it would unmark the other source. c) can't stop. If something is entered wrong, and you can't reach the network, the timeout is several minutes. But if you abort at this stage, the entire installation is aborted. d) the kernel. It seems that you pretty much have to compile one, whereas most linux distributions get away with a precompiled. This takes a bit of knowledge. > why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have > support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, noone wrote any? :) > * if you are still asking which is better, you did not do your homework > * Linux is unix-like, FreeBSD IS unix so? > * Linux comes from 3 vendors, FreeBSD comes from one .ORG which 3? I can name several. ANd the same thing can be said about Free/Net/Open . . . FreeBSD certainly fits my thinking better. I do feel more comfortable compiling my own stuff. And the "GPL uber alles" attitude does bad things to my blood pressure. But it needs to be possible to install. And I've found more death-traps in bsd than debian. I marked the vim package, then tried to use it to edit config files. The latest version (5.x), which wasn't marked as a devel package, leaks memory so bad that it kills my machine when run as root. A runaway memory leak so bad that I don't even get a chance to reboot. Run as a user, it brings the sytsem nearly to a halt until it faults on an illegal instruction. And more works out of the box on linux. I finally figured out (with some help) how to get apache running; it arrives with config files pointing to nonexistant places. I finally found ssh, and compiled, but it's not running yet, as near as i can tell. I have X running, but xdm won't let me log in (and during installation, wouldn't let me out of it's vc. And then there's hardware support; the first time i installed, I found it wouldn't support the scsi card I had, which was far from bleeding edge (since then, the *)$&W Zip drive died, and it doesn't matter). ANd file system support makes it hard to switch betwen linux & frebsd. At 3.0, i installed, and tried to keep my /home shared while I figured out if i could switch. I compiled in ext2fs support, and it turned out that random chunks get inserted during write to the ext2fs partitions . . . and at least prior to 2.2, linux had only read support for UFS (write is now labeled experimental), and will destroy a UFS partition beyond recovery if it tries to mount it as ext2. rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 9:59:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goodall1.u.washington.edu (goodall1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04061118FF for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall1.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id JAA29446; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:59:23 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: root@isis.dynip.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. > I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux > people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, > and very very gelous. Jeeze. This is some real axe grinding here. It's only natural to be loyal to whatever you've decided to use, but to actually wish silence upon all others is a bit extreme. Even fascist. You have to keep in mind the social patterns that are well establish in the U.S. Quality is of less importance that reputation. When a user is considering FreeNIX, he/she goes to the bookstore and they see shelf after shelf of Linux titles, but only a couple of books (if they can even find them) on FreeBSD. This is when the average Joe thinks, "If FreeBSD was better, there would surely be more books about it, and I would have heard about it on the news." So they choose Linux. This kind of flock behavior is really comical if you think about it. Just go to the mall and look at all the Tommy Hilfiger (sp?) stuff walking around, or go to the bus stop and watch folks huddle around the door of the bus, as if the first ten passengers to board were going to get free tickets to Hawaii, or go to the theater and watch folks line up to pay five bucks for popcorn that they wouldn't eat on a bet if they weren't in a theater. After that, these users fall into a pattern of self-delusion in which they convince themselves that "their brand" is the best one - whether it really is or not. I agree that FreeBSD is better than Linux, but to take it to the extreme that you have, I'd say you are suffering from the same delusion. Marketing professionals call this "brand loyalty". As far as I'm concerned, I hope Linux is a HUGE success. The more people that go to Linux, the less people there'll be on the Windows bandwagon. When the dust settles, if FreeBSD is really better then it will emerge victor through the process of natural selection. So please, root, take a chill pill before you go postal on a Linux user's group! Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 10: 0:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC8F211AD3 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Gus@Economics.net) Received: (qmail 28909 invoked from network); 19 Feb 1999 17:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO economics.net) (152.160.61.1) by unknown with SMTP; 19 Feb 1999 17:58:37 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] by economics.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2.1b3); Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:27 -0500 X-Sender: Gus@mail.sleeplabsoftware.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:00:48 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Edwin Gustafson Subject: Newbie success: changing networks without rebooting Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings, >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Sue Blake wrote: >> When you do something new or exciting like setting up your first >> network, installing FreeBSD for a friend, or learning how to reboot >> properly for the first time, tell us about your ups and downs, gloat >> about your victory. It's always nice to discover that someone else out I haven't posted here before, but Sue's invitation has inspired me to share something I've just mastered. It's something that saves a lot of time but may not be obvious to people coming from the personal computer world. (It wasn't obvious to me.) Yesterday I needed to temporarily move a computer running FreeBSD from one network to another. To do this I had to physically relocate the machine as well as change its IP address. This computer happens to be a laptop, so the battery made it unnecessary to shut down the system while in transit. But I still had to change the IP address. Coming from the PC world, I'm used to rebooting the computer every time a change like this needs to be made. I'd been doing this with FreeBSD even though I knew it wasn't supposed to be necessary. I had been editing /etc/rc.conf and rebooting every time. Yesterday I finally decided to learn how to handle these things the BSD way. A few minutes with _The Complete FreeBSD_ and I was typing: # ifconfig zp0 192.168.1.9 where zp0 refers to the PC card ethernet adapter and 192.168.1.9 is the new IP address. That's all: no waiting for the system to shut everything down, reboot, and then start everything back up again. Now I understand why certain guru friends of mine howl in protest when confronted with the "You must restart your computer for these changes to take effect" message in Windows' Network control panel. I'm sure all of this is old hat for BSD veterans. But for me it's a minor revelation. Because of it, I'm a little closer to running my BSD system with a BSD approach instead of a PC one. ----- Edwin Gustafson Gus@Economics.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 11:18:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from sandminer.com.au (unknown [203.43.89.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606EE11929 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from supervoc@wingdriver.com.au) Received: from localhost (supervoc@localhost) by sandminer.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA03600; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:12:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from supervoc@wingdriver.com.au) X-Authentication-Warning: sandminer.com.au: supervoc owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:12:05 +1100 (EST) From: "^'*'^" X-Sender: supervoc@sandminer.com.au To: root@isis.dynip.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 root@isis.dynip.com wrote: } Hi there, } Continuing the series of questiions, } I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. - } I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux } people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, } and very very gelous. better to be hearing about Linux than certain other operating[1] systems. more support by vendors for Linux is not something I would be worried about. consider that Linux popularity translates to greater awareness that "unix" alternatives even exist. if someone is tempted enough to try out Linux then chances are they will hear about FreeBSD sooner or later. ...and curiousity is a wonderful thing. I'd wager that a high percentage of people who have tried FreeBSD or Linux have also gone on and tried the other, just to see for themselves what each system is like. Linux popularity can therefore effectively be beneficial for FreeBSD when you really think about it. if more vendors are getting involved with Linux then this will ultimately do more good than bad for the FreeBSD world -- no need to despair. give it time. -SV7- [1] exception error To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 14: 9:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66376117C8 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from bb-b1-11a (ppp100.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.100]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25990; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:04:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:14:12 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: root@isis.dynip.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, and > Linux, why is linux more popular, why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have > support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, why the linux > ports is few Gigabytes, why I am still pretty sure that FreeBSD is > better. I think this is mostly because of how the developement of the two systems is going. Linux has been and always will be a operating system developed by a bunch of high school and college kids (with some exceptions of course...) Now, that kind of target group tends to be a home user group, cheap crappy hardware, games, etc. The FreeBSD developement has been by professionals with years of OS production under their belts. These people have no interest in games, are able to afford good quality hardware (and in fact are loath to buy otherwise... they have been in to many situations where a critical piece of equipment blew up.) They also tend to be the type that run full blown servers. Part of the problem we're seeing is that all those kids who developed Linux are now getting jobs in IS departments world wide. They're now pushing (quietly or otherwise,) Linux in as the answer to their problems. AND, compared to the Windows answer, it's a good one... Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 15:20:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.onclick.net (unknown [203.41.60.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 85676114C6 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vlad@onclick.net) Received: from beast [203.41.60.151] by mail.onclick.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id A23047A00FC; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:22:24 +1000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990220101632.0097b910@mail.onclick.net> X-Sender: vlad@mail.onclick.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:21:42 +1100 To: root@isis.dynip.com, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: vlad Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org one question......what do you care what is said by other people....do you like FreeBSD, does it suit your application?.....YES...Then great! ..If NO....then get a copy of linux.....it's really simple. Do you always hate not having the popular thing? At 04:09 19/02/99 +0300, root@isis.dynip.com wrote: >Hi there, >Continuing the series of questiions, >I am hearing tooooo much now about linux. >Linux started , may be , some a year or so before FreeBSD, and has >become very common, even the guys who don't know a shit about >computers, when you tell them I am running unix at home, of course >refering to your FreeBSD machine, they immediately tell you, Linux ?? > >I'm sick of it, now I hear that IBM is making some deal with Linux >people for installing Linux on their new machines, I am very very sad, >and very very gelous. > >I wan too know, in full detail, the difference between FreeBSD, and >Linux, why is linux more popular, why the heck FreeBSD doesnot have >support for simple things like Parralel port scanners, why the linux >ports is few Gigabytes, why I am still pretty sure that FreeBSD is >better. > >I wan to know why every time I go to a web page on the net to hunt for >extra-portal (like extra-terresterial) software, I find the following >Menu: > > Windows 95/98 > Windows NT > OS2 > Machintosh > Linux > >Is this list missing something. > >Why, despite the support of linux in FreeBSD down to the kernel level, >you can expect the following response when you download any softwaare >from menu item no. 5 from above menu (Linux for the dummy) > > -----> FreeBSD response ----> unknown elf, brand with elf > if you try to brand, it can't brand. > in short it is not runnable. (period) > >I am very sad, someone MUST answer these VERY VERY common questions, >but NOT with conventional answers like: > >* if you are still asking which is better, you did not do your homework >* Linux is unix-like, FreeBSD IS unix >* Linux comes from 3 vendors, FreeBSD comes from one .ORG >* Linux kernel is unix, while the resst is crap. >* FreeBSD Network system is a great thing, and all ISPs are shifting to > it. > >Please guys, some real, and in-depth answers. >from a very FreeBSDish guy. > >thanks >-- >- MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. >---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) >Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( >Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ >Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ >Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | >Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | >Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ >Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) >pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -------------------------------- http://www.onclick.net -------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 16:38:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28302119D0 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10621; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:39:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199902200039.TAA10621@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: How to install a network printer In-Reply-To: <36CC930A.FD806C07@manhattanprojects.com> from Michael Bernardo at "Feb 18, 99 05:24:10 pm" To: mbernard@manhattanprojects.com (Michael Bernardo) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:39:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Bernardo wrote, > Please help me install a network printer. The printer is an HP Laserjet > 4000. I want to be able to print more than just text. Any help would > be appreciated. First, you have looked at the sections about setting up printers in the Handbook, right? Second, by 'network printer' do you mean a printer with its own network card or a printer running off of a machine that takes print requests for it? Third, when you say you want to be able to print more than just text, does that mean you have gotten text to the printer? If you have, the first battle is won. If the printer is Postscript ready, you can print 'more than just text' by sending it Postscript. If not... well then things get hairier. Some more details about your setup, how far you have gotten, what you have tried, and specific problems can help us help you. If it is a specific, detailed problems, freebsd-questions may be a better venue. HTH. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 17:29:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from osiris.staff.udg.mx (unknown [148.202.3.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B22511913 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leonf@osiris.staff.udg.mx) Received: (from leonf@localhost) by osiris.staff.udg.mx (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08245; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:29:06 GMT From: "Leon Felipe Rodriguez J. -CENCAR" Message-Id: <9902191929.ZM8243@osiris.staff.udg.mx> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:29:01 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Crist J. Clark" "Re: How to install a network printer" (Feb 19, 7:39pm) References: <199902200039.TAA10621@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: mbernard@manhattanprojects.com (Michael Bernardo) Subject: Re: How to install a network printer Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org first install lprps-letter-2.5 then add this to /etc/printcap # lp|local line printer:\ :sh:\ :if=/usr/local/libexec/psif:\ :lp=:rm=print.server.ip:rp=printer:sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp: # and mkdir -p /var/spool/lpd/lp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 19 17:30:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0708A11994 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:30:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA08794 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:30:12 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:30:12 +1100 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199902200130.MAA08794@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 30 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 1: 4:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.ea4els.ampr.org (usuxtrn099.bitmailer.es [195.16.159.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA7711352 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjmudd@bitmailer.net) Received: by phoenix.ea4els.ampr.org (Postfix, from userid 507) id 029025699; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:29:37 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Very Common Question References: From: Simon J Mudd Date: 20 Feb 1999 02:29:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: "^'*'^"'s message of "20 Feb 1999 01:58:15 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 59 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "^'*'^" writes: > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 root@isis.dynip.com wrote: > > that "unix" alternatives even exist. if someone is tempted enough to try > out Linux then chances are they will hear about FreeBSD sooner or later. I guess I'm one of these guys. I started with linux, and at the office now use SunOS, Solaris, and AIX for various applications. Now I'm looking at FreeBSD, although I bought 2.2.5 release which I never really tried out. > ...and curiousity is a wonderful thing. I'd wager that a high percentage > of people who have tried FreeBSD or Linux have also gone on and tried the > other, just to see for themselves what each system is like. Linux > popularity can therefore effectively be beneficial for FreeBSD when you > really think about it. I've also ordered 3.1-release which I hope will arrive soon. People say FreeBSD is better, others say FreeBSD misses a lot of things, and certainly linux does seem to have a head-start and a bigger user base. It also has an advantage of competing distributions, even if this can confuse people initially. I'm not too sure of the licensing situation with FreeBSD, although from the comments I think it's not GPL. this may be an issue for some people: I'm not sure. RedHat have a lot of good things going for them, but I think what has made them money is rpm (their package manager), also now being used by SuSE, and Caldera. The facilities for managing packages are very good, including upgrading while running (I've upgraded libc with no trouble this way), and of course the upgrade from one release to a later one. The advantage of doing this shouldn't be underestimated. I don't know how FreeBSD fares, but it certainly _seems_ to have a simpler system for managing packages. With any OS going through constant change, it's easier to install or upgrade a binary package rather than build your own, though there are merits in doing both things. On production machines this is even more so. This "package" thing is a big plus and while rpm has some shortfalls (I think) it and debian deb packages seem to take the pain out of maintaining a system. If you are at the bleeding edge you probably don't want packages, but many other people do, and few people are bleeding edge in everything they do. I look forward to playing with FreeBSD and certainly hope that the 2 camps (linux and FreeBSD) help each other, thus saving time, and that both learn from their competitors. Both systems will improve and I wouldn't be surprised if both compete for some time. This is good for unix generally, and while linux may not be "officially unix": if it looks, feels and behaves like unix, I think you might as well call it unix too. Simon -- Simon J Mudd, Madrid SPAIN Tel: +34-91-559 2854 email: sjmudd@bitmailer.net [short messages - from radio hams only] ----> ea4els@ea4els.ampr.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 1: 5: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.ea4els.ampr.org (usuxtrn099.bitmailer.es [195.16.159.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4B311352 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjmudd@bitmailer.net) Received: by phoenix.ea4els.ampr.org (Postfix, from userid 507) id 8641856CD; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:41:16 +0100 (MET) To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Very Common Question References: <3.0.6.32.19990219112625.008c5290@mail.bfm.org> From: Simon J Mudd Date: 20 Feb 1999 02:41:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: "G. Adam Stanislav"'s message of "20 Feb 1999 02:06:35 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > By the same token, more Unix programmers probably have Linux installed than > FreeBSD, so they write software for what they have and are familiar with. This is sad (I imply you are talking about writing software for __linux__), because people should be writing software which works on unix, and is portable between unix systems. Few people are good at writing portable unix code, though this is partly because their are few books on it (and O'reilly's book doesn't tell you how to _write_ portable unix code). I know that apart from different header files there are several other differences between the different unix vendors, but unix's weekness has simply been the lack of code which runs on any unix platform. Obviously good code is written by people who have learnt how to do this, but a lot of code I've seen is written with #ifdef's written everywhere; few people write code like I've seen in postfix (Wietse's superfast MTA), very nice and clear. For those of us (myself included) starting something new it is far from clear how to write code this way, and if I have only one system (linux) to test it on then it's not surprising that I write non-portable code. Maybe one day I'll get over this hurdle. Simon -- Simon J Mudd, Madrid SPAIN Tel: +34-91-559 2854 email: sjmudd@bitmailer.net [short messages - from radio hams only] ----> ea4els@ea4els.ampr.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 9: 9:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from server01.gw.total-web.net (server01.gw.total-web.net [209.186.12.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0E5117B5 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:09:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bangpath@bellsouth.net) Received: from kagero (ip-149-116.gw.total-web.net [209.186.149.116]) by server01.gw.total-web.net (2.5 Build 2640 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA00931 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:07:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990220025815.00986100@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: bangpath@mail.atl.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:58:15 +0000 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: borehawg Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902191426.JAA09653@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> References: <199902191310.QAA44457@isis.dynip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> - MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. ~o .^. >> ---------------------------- ___ o~ .00 ) >> Static Email : osiris2002@yahoo.com /| o~ /)( >> Bouncing Email : root@isis.dynip.com / | | \ >> Web Site : http://isis.dynip.com:80 (Frames) ___/ | / \ >> Anon FTP Site : ftp://isis.dynip.com:21 (anonymous) | /''___/ / | >> Gopher Site : gopher://isis.dynip.com:70 | /'''/___/ | >> Network News : isis.dynip.com (Read, Post, Xfer) __|/'''/ >> Mailing Lists : majordomo@isis.dynip.com (public) >> pgp key : finger root@isis.dynip.com > >You should put a 'Reply-To' line in your mail containing your 'static' >address if that is where you prefer replies from this list go. > >I'm also trying to figure out your BUAG in the .sig. Q-bert standing >at the base of some stairs, wearing stilts, and being attacked by >huge, flying sperm? I was wondering about that too....I figured Eudora for Windows (my prefered mail client and the only reason I keep a Windows partition) was doing some funky line wraps and I was jsut seeing more scrambled ascii-art. Looked to me like a Q-bert-like creature with arms sitting at an upright piano. I was thinking the flying sperm was some sort of cigarette smoke...? -------------------------------------- Andrew ---> bangpath@bellsouth.net -------------------------------------- C++? Java? Perl? To Hell with it!! AppleSoft Basic all the way!!! Dude! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 12:40:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goodall1.u.washington.edu (goodall1.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4A2111CF for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:40:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall1.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id MAA43524; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:40:01 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:40:01 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: Simon J Mudd Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20 Feb 1999, Simon J Mudd wrote: > I'm not too sure of the licensing situation with FreeBSD, although > from the comments I think it's not GPL. this may be an issue for some > people: I'm not sure. I think the main concept behind the FreeBSD liscense is that they don't want to force people to distribute source code for a product they've made using FreeBSD in part or in whole. This enables you to modify the code however you want and then sell it for profit. By the regular public liscence it is illegal to do this. So in that sense, the FreeBSD liscense is even less restrictive. Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 13: 9:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from eyry.econ.iastate.edu (eyry.econ.iastate.edu [129.186.32.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E9C119A6 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:06:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hawk@eyry.econ.iastate.edu) Received: from eyry.econ.iastate.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eyry.econ.iastate.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA43134; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:11:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from hawk@eyry.econ.iastate.edu) Message-Id: <199902201511.JAA43134@eyry.econ.iastate.edu> To: "K. Marsh" Cc: Simon J Mudd , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:40:01 PST." Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:11:12 -0600 From: "Richard E. Hawkins" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kenneth Marsh wrote, > On 20 Feb 1999, Simon J Mudd wrote: > > I'm not too sure of the licensing situation with FreeBSD, although > > from the comments I think it's not GPL. this may be an issue for some > > people: I'm not sure. > I think the main concept behind the FreeBSD liscense is that they don't > want to force people to distribute source code for a product they've made > using FreeBSD in part or in whole. This enables you to modify the code > however you want and then sell it for profit. By the regular public > liscence it is illegal to do this. So in that sense, the FreeBSD liscense > is even less restrictive. You're being far too polite about this :) THe "other" license has a "Borg" clause. To distribute the software, all of the other software, other than system libraries, upon which it depends, must be distributed under the GPL as well. There are common complaints that other free software is not "GPL-compatible". However, "GPL-compatible" means "can be assimulated and released as GPL instead of its own license." Additionally, the FSF claims that it is not allowed to link non-GPL software to GPL software, though they seem to have forgotten to put this in the license. And now, let's all go to the Church of Emacs, and sing, "GLP uber alles" :( To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 13:51:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C23611931 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from bb-b1-11a (ppp73.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.73]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02774 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:56:15 -0800 () From: Rick Hamell To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Newbe UNIX reference card (fwd) Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@dsinw.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all! This came in off the of the Redhat install list. Thought I'd pass it on as it looks useful. Rick *************************************************************************** Hi all we'ins Newbies to UNIX, Scrounging around on the net, I found a UNIX reference care in .PDF and postscript formats. see it at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4466/unixc-30.pdf Regards, Glenn Merrell Freelance Consulting To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 17: 9:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898AF10E05 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15546; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:11:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199902210111.UAA15546@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: from "K. Marsh" at "Feb 20, 99 12:40:01 pm" To: durang@u.washington.edu (K. Marsh) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:11:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: sjmudd@bitmailer.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org K. Marsh wrote, > On 20 Feb 1999, Simon J Mudd wrote: > > > I'm not too sure of the licensing situation with FreeBSD, although > > from the comments I think it's not GPL. this may be an issue for some > > people: I'm not sure. > > I think the main concept behind the FreeBSD liscense is that they don't > want to force people to distribute source code for a product they've made > using FreeBSD in part or in whole. This enables you to modify the code > however you want and then sell it for profit. By the regular public > liscence it is illegal to do this. This is a common misconception. There is absolutely nothing in the GPL that says you cannot sell code for a profit. Afterall, for an example, RedHat does it, right? > So in that sense, the FreeBSD liscense > is even less restrictive. How you see that depends on if you are a seller or purchaser. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 22:33:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8FB10E60 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from durang@u.washington.edu) Received: from goodall2.u.washington.edu (durang@goodall2.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.168]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id WAA29916; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:33:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (durang@localhost) by goodall2.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id WAA21392; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:33:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:33:48 -0800 (PST) From: "K. Marsh" To: cjclark@home.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: <199902210111.UAA15546@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > I think the main concept behind the FreeBSD license is that they don't > > want to force people to distribute source code for a product they've made > > using FreeBSD in part or in whole. This enables you to modify the code > > however you want and then sell it for profit. By the regular public > > license it is illegal to do this. > > This is a common misconception. There is absolutely nothing in the GPL > that says you cannot sell code for a profit. Afterall, for an example, > RedHat does it, right? The point I was trying to make was that you can't sell your software for profit, UNLESS you distribute the source code too (thereby giving away the secrets of your program.) This is right, isn't it Christ? FreeBSD's license doesn't require you to give away your source. Kenneth J. Marsh University of Washington durang@u.washington.edu Chemical Engineering To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 20 22:54:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E78A10E76 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:54:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16296; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:55:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199902210655.BAA16296@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: Very Common Question In-Reply-To: from "K. Marsh" at "Feb 20, 99 10:33:48 pm" To: durang@u.washington.edu (K. Marsh) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:55:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: cjclark@home.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org K. Marsh wrote, > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > > > I think the main concept behind the FreeBSD license is that they don't > > > want to force people to distribute source code for a product they've made > > > using FreeBSD in part or in whole. This enables you to modify the code > > > however you want and then sell it for profit. By the regular public > > > license it is illegal to do this. > > > > This is a common misconception. There is absolutely nothing in the GPL > > that says you cannot sell code for a profit. Afterall, for an example, > > RedHat does it, right? > > The point I was trying to make was that you can't sell your software for > profit, UNLESS you distribute the source code too (thereby giving away > the secrets of your program.) This is right, isn't it Christ? Yes, you have to provide or make available source code to anyone who receives the binaries under the GPL. In addition, the recipient is free to distribute it and modify it. > FreeBSD's license doesn't require you to give away your source. Not that I'm interested in a lot of software I can't get as source. But there is no reason open source (remember OS != GPL) implies that the software cannot have stronger licensing from the owner's point of view. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message