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Date:      Sat, 11 Jun 2011 17:07:24 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        David Schultz <das@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc:        mdf@FreeBSD.ORG, Adrian Chadd <adrian@FreeBSD.ORG>, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: [RFC] shipping kernels with default modules?
Message-ID:  <D721F18A-6ACB-4AB5-83FD-DB23D62BF5D3@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <20110611204326.GA51320@zim.MIT.EDU>
References:  <BANLkTin2AwKRT7N6HWqBctJcT72_mR=Otg@mail.gmail.com> <20110611171834.GA38142@zim.MIT.EDU> <BANLkTik=z-fb1sDwh0dr4hRWmdhLMWiKdw@mail.gmail.com> <20110611204326.GA51320@zim.MIT.EDU>

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On Jun 11, 2011, at 2:43 PM, David Schultz wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011, mdf@freebsd.org wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:18 AM, David Schultz <das@freebsd.org> =
wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>=20
>>>> Has there been any further thought as of late about shipping =
kernels
>>>> with modules only by default, rather than monolithic kernels?
>>>>=20
>>>> I tried this experiment a couple years ago and besides a little
>>>> trickery with ACPI module loading, it worked out fine.
>>>>=20
>>>> Is there any reason we aren't doing this at the moment? Eg by =
having a
>>>> default loader modules list populated from the kernel config file?
>>>=20
>>> I've been doing this for years, and it has come in quite handy.
>>> For instance, when my if_msk gets wedged, the only way to fix it
>>> short of rebooting seems to be reloading the driver.
>>>=20
>>> One issue, however, is that the boot loader is horrendously slow
>>> at loading modules.  (Either that or my BIOS has a braindead int 13h
>>> handler.)  Most of these modules aren't actually needed until much
>>> later in the boot process, so a mechanism to load non-essential
>>> modules after the file systems are mounted might provide a good
>>> solution.
>>=20
>> Indeed, at $WORK we're trying to get shutdown -> restart under 2
>> minutes.  Several seconds of this is moving things *into* the kernel
>> that need to be there (disk drivers), and everything else to a point
>> in init where modules can be loaded in parallel, using the faster =
disk
>> driver, rather than in serial with slow BIOS handlers.
>=20
> Have you found that drivers can be reliably loaded in parallel
> these days?  I'm always waiting for timeouts on four card readers
> and two optical drives, so that would be a big win for me.  IIRC,
> nothing can happen in parallel during boot because the scheduler
> is initialized very late in the process.  I'm not a device driver
> person, but I imagine there might be other assumptions that might
> get in the way as well.

Loading isn't the problem.  The timeouts that you are waiting for are =
part of the probe/attach sequence.  And that's strictly serialized...

Warner=



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