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Date:      Thu, 06 Aug 1998 21:01:54 -0700
From:      John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
Cc:        current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Heads up on LFS 
Message-ID:  <199808070401.VAA29890@austin.polstra.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:57:37 -0000." <199808070157.SAA26484@usr06.primenet.com> 

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> > > JAVA has a nasty tendency to leak like a sieve until the GC hits a
> > > steady state.  As does Modula 3.
> >                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> > I don't know what you base that statement on.  I have a lot of
> > experience writing and using Modula-3 programs, and I've never
> > observed the behavior you describe.
> 
> Q1:	Is there more than 0 bytes difference between memory
> 	allocated and in use?
> 
> Q2:	If so, how large can this number be under the worst
> 	possible conditions?
> 
> Q3:	Is this more memory than is typically found in a
> 	typical embedded ssytem, such as the one found in a
> 	Microwave oven?
> 
> Q4:	What is the typical target platform for an RT OS, and what
> 	is one of the major target platforms for JAVA?
> 
> Q5:	How provable is a system that depends on garbage collection?
> 
> My opinion is that RT OS's and portable devices need to run in
> (compared to most VAX programs) tiny memory footprints for them
> to be useful.  The launch costs alone on the extra memory on its
> way to Mars are very, very large.

We were talking about SPIN and Modula-3.  When did the subject change
to real-time OSs and portable devices?  And there is a vast gulf
between "more than 0 bytes difference between memory allocated and in
use" and "leaks like a sieve."  You still haven't provided any support
for the latter statement in reference to Modula-3's garbage collector.

> Feel free to disagree with me (I'm sure you already do... 8-)).

There's nothing there to agree or disagree with.  You made a claim
which goes against my experience, which happens to be extensive in
this area.  I challenged your claim.  You changed the subject.
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

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